There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

[shoutinghorse]

Who breaks down bawling because a samaritan is inconvenienced while doing her a favor?

HAHA, riiight.

Slightly more plausible: She's freaked by a murderous calamity she nearly caused driving shitfaced. Again.

https://imgur.com/RrMjEZ1.png

[katamari Damassi]

Jesus. That's some seriously rough shit to go through.

No shit.
You have your grief to deal with and the prospect of the rest of your life being seriously threatened.

Has Kevin Logan and Kristi Winters made videos mocking him about it yet?

You know that wouldn't surprise me if they did, thoughts go out to Noel, one of my favourite YouTubers. What a shitty thing to happen.

They mocked Thunderf00t when his dad died after a prolonged illness, and SJW's are the compassionate ones.

[Shatterface]

What is the enthnonationalist response to South Africa? If it has to belong to one ethnicity it has to be black Africans doesn't it? You can't have a white Europe if you don't have a black Africa.

I already made this comparison. But apparently it's different because the white South African aren't recent immigrants.

If you meet white South Africans (let alone marry one) you quickly realise their culture and ethnicity is African. As always you play free and fast with race and ethnicity. Your same warped logic returns Australia to the “Jackey Jackey”

In what way is it 'African'?

All the current arguments against immigration could more accurately be made about the colonies. If you want to argue that immigration is a major threat to Europe by using what happened to the countries we colonised that's at least a consistent argument.

[BoxNDox]

Australian nursing and midwifery code of conduct slammed over ‘white privilege’

LAST year nurses were asked to call women “persons”. Now there’s another furore as they’re told to acknowledge “white privilege”.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health ... d40804d5a3

My country is lost.

In regards to the "person" thing, it's important to recognize they could be Arachosians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crime ... der_Suzdal

[MarcusAu]

So has anyone been following the drama with the Traditional Workers Party ?

https://www.spin.com/2018/03/matthew-he ... ers-party/

Broken boxes, a guy fucking the wife of his wife's step-dad, deleted databases, and self-reporting to the SPLC...this ones got everything.

It couldn't happen to a nicer pair of arseholes...

[DrokkIt]

Altered States! Good call. It reminded me a bit of the star gate sequence in 2001 A Space Odyssey.

I love 2001, it's one of my faves and also I claim one of the best films ever made.

[jugheadnaut]

Holy fucking shit - Uber autonomous car kills pedestrian.

Before I saw the video I thought that maybe the pedestrian jumped out from between cars or something, but no.... this poor woman is just strolling across an open street. Fuck me.... this is really a bad failure. Some engineers just killed someone. Wow... really bad.

I would say it's almost entirely her fault. She's crossing a dimly lit street at night wearing dark clothing walking a bike either with no lights or the lights turned off, no reflectors on the wheels, and is doing the asshole thing of assuming the car will slow down for her instead of running to complete the cross before the car got there (although given she doesn't seem to be noticing the car at all, she may have been drunk or high). A rare female nominee for a Darwin award.

The overall stopping distance for a car going 40 mph, which was reportedly the speed of the car, including perception, reaction time to the brake pedal, and physical stopping distance, is about 150 ft. It looks like she popped into view with about 50 ft to spare, so I don't think a human driver would have avoided hitting and probably killing her.

[Shatterface]

UK's first gender-fluid police officer going by names 'Callum' and 'Abi'

A police officer has become Britain’s first gender-fluid officer and is using separate male and female identities while at work.

One some days the officer goes by the name Callum — and on other days goes by the female name of Abi.

The transgender PC has two warrant cards, one in their male name, the other in their female identity.

Gender fluid is a gender identity which refers to a gender which varies over time. A gender fluid person may at any time identify as male, female, neutral, or any other non-binary identity, or some combination of identities.

Their gender can also vary at random or vary in response to different circumstances. It comes as part of the Met Police's diversity initiative encouraging officers to “be themselves” at work.

The officer's gender-fluid status was announced in an internal message to the Met’s 43,607 police and civilian staff last week, titled “Bring Your Whole Self to Work”.

Callum, who had been a male male police officer for 13 years, told the Sun: “The first time I walked into a Met building as Abi, I was hyperventilating so much I almost passed out. “I’ve done it a handful of times since and felt so happy that I got to be me at work.

“Abi is a part of me that exists and I want that part to be recognised and validated. “But I’m still me. I’m still the same person whether I’m presenting as Callum or Abi. It’s the same dice. You’re just looking at a different number.”

Equality campaigners hailed the decision as a positive step forward, however one recently retired senior Met officer condemned the decision.

Det Chief Insp Mick Neville said: “Senior officers constantly complain about lack of funding. “But there will always be enough to fill a diversity unit to run crazy schemes like this. “Little wonder the public lose faith in the police.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... policeman/

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

UK's first gender-fluid police officer going by names 'Callum' and 'Abi'

A police officer has become Britain’s first gender-fluid officer and is using separate male and female identities while at work.

One some days the officer goes by the name Callum — and on other days goes by the female name of Abi.

The transgender PC has two warrant cards, one in their male name, the other in their female identity.

Gender fluid is a gender identity which refers to a gender which varies over time. A gender fluid person may at any time identify as male, female, neutral, or any other non-binary identity, or some combination of identities.

Their gender can also vary at random or vary in response to different circumstances. It comes as part of the Met Police's diversity initiative encouraging officers to “be themselves” at work.

The officer's gender-fluid status was announced in an internal message to the Met’s 43,607 police and civilian staff last week, titled “Bring Your Whole Self to Work”.

Callum, who had been a male male police officer for 13 years, told the Sun: “The first time I walked into a Met building as Abi, I was hyperventilating so much I almost passed out. “I’ve done it a handful of times since and felt so happy that I got to be me at work.

“Abi is a part of me that exists and I want that part to be recognised and validated. “But I’m still me. I’m still the same person whether I’m presenting as Callum or Abi. It’s the same dice. You’re just looking at a different number.”

Equality campaigners hailed the decision as a positive step forward, however one recently retired senior Met officer condemned the decision.

Det Chief Insp Mick Neville said: “Senior officers constantly complain about lack of funding. “But there will always be enough to fill a diversity unit to run crazy schemes like this. “Little wonder the public lose faith in the police.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... policeman/

I wonder how that will play legally if Callum filled the warrant card but it's Abi at the brain wheel when the court goes in session. Or whatever. Fuck that nonsense.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Although it could open up some lulz fest.

-Our police force has just hired 12 new officers.

-Great! Who are they?

-Bob.

-Bob?!?

-Yeah, multiple personalities disorder. Good chaps all round, though...

[AndrewV69]

I thought she was of Slavic / Russian origin - does that count as European?

I should probably start planning my European / World tour soon before it all turns to shit...like what happened to Hitler.

Russia as European? Yes and no. It is a long complicated story. The Russians/Slavs I have met appeared to identify only as Russian with zero affinity towards Europe.

When I was a teenager I briefly made the acquaintance of a Russian family. A couple and their three children. Everyone of them had blond hair, and deep blue eyes with an epicanthic fold.

Just blew me away. First time I had met white people with "chinese" eyes. Unfortunately, I never did ask where exactly in Russia they were from, and I really wanted to ask why they looked the way they did, and if all Russians looked like that. I just could not figure out a way to be diplomatic about asking.

Just about killed me not to ask.

[MarcusAu]

In what way is it 'African'?

All the current arguments against immigration could more accurately be made about the colonies. If you want to argue that immigration is a major threat to Europe by using what happened to the countries we colonised that's at least a consistent argument.

I worked with a guy from SA who married someone from Holland. Reported he was able to follow his wife's friends conversaton as long as they didn't talk too quickly.

Based on this we can probably consider South Africans to be 'Slow Dutch'.

[free thoughtpolice]

[DrokkIt]

More Lovely Shappi action- people being pieces of shit...

[Tigzy]

Pie is fair steaming about the Dankula verdict.

[InfraRedBucket]

UK's first gender-fluid police officer going by names 'Callum' and 'Abi'

A police officer has become Britain’s first gender-fluid officer and is using separate male and female identities while at work.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... policeman/

You dont know what it's like being gender fluid.
You just try running after villains in heels.

nintchdbpict000361517667.jpg

(84.05 KiB) Downloaded 124 times

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

UK's first gender-fluid police officer going by names 'Callum' and 'Abi'

.

“Abi is a part of me that exists and I want that part to be recognised and validated.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... policeman/

This fucking "validation" thing again. Fuck off and buy yourself a pair of Fluevogs.

[Brive1987]

What is the enthnonationalist response to South Africa? If it has to belong to one ethnicity it has to be black Africans doesn't it? You can't have a white Europe if you don't have a black Africa.

I already made this comparison. But apparently it's different because the white South African aren't recent immigrants.

If you meet white South Africans (let alone marry one) you quickly realise their culture and ethnicity is African. As always you play free and fast with race and ethnicity. Your same warped logic returns Australia to the “Jackey Jackey”

In what way is it 'African'?

All the current arguments against immigration could more accurately be made about the colonies. If you want to argue that immigration is a major threat to Europe by using what happened to the countries we colonised that's at least a consistent argument.

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

[Shatterface]

Lucy Masoud – let me tell you what it feels like to use a changing room as a transgender person

Masoud, the Fire Brigade’s LGBT union representative, not only insulted trans people on the Today programme, but also undermined her role. Her job is to stand up for workers, particularly those who are most vulnerable to being abused

The Fire Brigades Union’s LGBT representative Lucy Masoud’s comments on the Today Programme this morning were not only upsetting, but showed a deep misunderstanding of the experience of being transgender, which she admitted herself – “I’m not even sure what that means.”

Masoud described opening up all women’s shortlists to transgender women as “opening up shortlists to men simply because they feel like women”.

As the “debate” went on, she imagined a situation: “I’m in a female only changing area, someone comes in who has self-identified as a woman, yet is clearly a man”. Despite completely missing the point of what self-identifying as a woman actually means – that person is a woman – she doesn’t seem to consider how that transgender woman might be feeling knowing that many around her probably have the same opinion that Masoud does.

Lucy Masoud is a lesbian, so I’m wondering if she’ll have any empathy with my secondary school changing room experience as a queer person. I spent the entirety of my school years mortified every time we had to get changed for sports classes. I would rush to get to the changing room quickly so that I could be there at a different time to everyone else, or at least get a spot in the corner where I could hide. I would get dressed facing the walls because I was ashamed to be in that space. I was fearful that just by being there I might make anyone’s women’s only space less comfortable.

I was only at school a few years ago, but I know that these feelings are the leftovers of discrimination that queer people have faced for decades – the argument that queer people shouldn’t share the same changing rooms and toilets as straight people. We were called “perverts” for years. This was what queers were facing a few decades ago, and it’s what transgender people are facing today: being told to get out of a space that should be ours because we are part of a minority.

I feel this same shame now – I can’t think of many spaces I feel more self-aware and scared than in changing rooms and toilets. I often notice people looking at me twice or tensing when I enter. I’ve been asked to leave women’s facilities too many times to count. Far from a threat to anyone in those spaces, it is me who is more likely to be hurt – physically or by words.

I was assigned female at birth but I’m a non-binary person. Being transgender in any facility designed to fit binaries – whether it’s “male” or “female” – is terrifying. It means that often transgender people try to avoid those spaces altogether.

Earlier this week two women “activists” went to a men’s only swim session in an attempt to undermine self-identification of transgender people. They probably thought they were pulling a stunt that was “funny” and “clever” by mocking trans people.

I wish I could meet these activists. I wish I could tell them in person that my gender dysphoria has caused me to avoid swimming pools for years. On the rare occasions that I feel brave enough to swim, I wear shorts and a top to try to cover my body. I feel people staring – in the changing rooms, in the pool, at the beach.

I also wear this suit to cover the scars on my legs and torso that are a result of self-harm. They are scars that mark out words people have said to me – both homophobic and transphobic slurs. I hide them and I try to hide myself, make myself as invisible as possible. I know so many trans people who do the same – for these women to make such a mockery of how traumatising it is for trans people not just to enter a gendered space, but literally any space, shows how little they understand about the trauma transgender people face.

I wish I could talk to these activists in person – but they would probably blame my mental health for me being transgender, rather than accept that I am transgender and that my mental health has been made so much worse by people like them mocking my existence. This is not only insulting, but undermines mental health issues.

I ask them and I ask Masoud – would somebody risk all of this trauma and exclusion “simply because they feel like a woman”, as Masoud put it? We don’t live as our preferred gender because, as Masoud seems to think, we “wake up one day and declare ‘I’m a woman’”.

Obviously I can’t speak for all transgender people, but for many the process of coming to terms with who we are takes years – and it is something we often hide for fear of being ostracised by our families, friends – and random people in changing rooms.

It often means we face suffering from mental illness, discrimination at work or school or unemployment, housing issues, homelessness, rejection by the people we love the most and being terrified literally just to go and pee. Who would choose that?

Not only is this backlash against trans people harmful, it is also illogical.

Transgender women have been accessing women-only spaces for decades – from toilets to refuges for survivors of domestic and sexual violence. This has never been contested so fiercely as it is being now, and it’s also never posed a problem. The argument that self-identification will somehow affect access to gendered spaces is ridiculous – after all, who’s ever had to produce a birth certificate to go to use a changing room or go to a swim group?

I can’t imagine how transgender members of the Fire Brigades Union must be feeling after hearing Masoud speaking this morning.

If I was a fire fighter facing transphobia at work I would feel like the last person I could speak to was my union representative. It’s sadly ironic. Masoud has not only insulted trans people, but she’s undermined her role. She should be standing up for workers’ rights, particularly those who are most vulnerable to being abused.

She described transgender people as having a “radical trans ideology”, but I can’t understand what is so radical about not discriminating against somebody because they are slightly different to you. That’s all transgender people are asking, and we deserve representatives who support us.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lu ... 67096.html

From the comments:

Prodigalfather

TERF = "Tired of Explaining Reality to F..wits".

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Once there was this kid who
Got into an accident and couldn't come to school
But when he finally came back
His hair had turned from black into bright white
He said that it was from when
The cars had smashed him so hard
Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
Once there was this girl who
Wouldn't go and change with the girls in the change room
But when they finally made her
They saw birthmarks all over her body
She couldn't quite explain it
They'd always just been there
Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
But both the girl and boy were glad
'Cause one kid had it worse than that
'Cause then there was this boy whose
Parents made him come directly home right after school
And when they went to their church
They shook and lurched all over the church floor
He couldn't quite explain it
They'd always just gone there
Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
Oh oh
Oh oh

[Shatterface]

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Shared with who? Other white people descended from white Europeans? Is there something distinctively African about the language? Culture? Political system? Economy? Faith? They are all imported from Europe.

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

Those countries were sparsely populated before whitey arrived, but yes, they treated the indiginous populations abominable. But white people are a minority in Africa. If you want ethnostatea you have to find somewhere to resettle them. If they are as 'African' as you think they are they are going to find it difficult to adjust to the language, culture and wearing trousers.

[Stankeye]

So has anyone been following the drama with the Traditional Workers Party ?

https://www.spin.com/2018/03/matthew-he ... ers-party/

Broken boxes, a guy fucking the wife of his wife's step-dad, deleted databases, and self-reporting to the SPLC...this ones got everything.

It couldn't happen to a nicer pair of arseholes...

Yes I have.

At the other forum I look at, the one that lead me here all those years ago.

International Skeptics

Where I learn that alt-right=Neo Nazi.

[Brive1987]

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Shared with who? Other white people descended from white Europeans? Is there something distinctively African about the language? Culture? Political system? Economy? Faith? They are all imported from Europe.

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

Those countries were sparsely populated before whitey arrived, but yes, they treated the indiginous populations abominable. But white people are a minority in Africa. If you want ethnostatea you have to find somewhere to resettle them. If they are as 'African' as you think they are they are going to find it difficult to adjust to the language, culture and wearing trousers.

Sometimes you must wake at night in a sweat, realising that what you say on the Pit stays on the Pit.

:mrgreen:

[John D]

Holy fucking shit - Uber autonomous car kills pedestrian.

Before I saw the video I thought that maybe the pedestrian jumped out from between cars or something, but no.... this poor woman is just strolling across an open street. Fuck me.... this is really a bad failure. Some engineers just killed someone. Wow... really bad.

I would say it's almost entirely her fault. She's crossing a dimly lit street at night wearing dark clothing walking a bike either with no lights or the lights turned off, no reflectors on the wheels, and is doing the asshole thing of assuming the car will slow down for her instead of running to complete the cross before the car got there (although given she doesn't seem to be noticing the car at all, she may have been drunk or high). A rare female nominee for a Darwin award.

The overall stopping distance for a car going 40 mph, which was reportedly the speed of the car, including perception, reaction time to the brake pedal, and physical stopping distance, is about 150 ft. It looks like she popped into view with about 50 ft to spare, so I don't think a human driver would have avoided hitting and probably killing her.

I have a different spin on it.

1) For sure the pedestrian was do something really stupid... j-walking at night across a high speed road. If this had been a normal vehicle she would be asking for trouble.

2) The Uber car may have been only using camera monitoring. This is complete shit. They don't even work as well as human vision as far as object detection is concerned. This is negligent in my opinion. Maybe all the sensors produced odd signals. Maybe the detection was just not running correctly. We may never know. It has been reported that the vehicle do NOT apply the brakes before the impact, which is CRAZY, given the fact that this woman was directly in front of the car (this detail is not yet confirmed).

3) Every fully autonomous vehicle should at least have forward facing radar which would have easily detected this pedestrian. The whole idea behind autonomous driving is that it is supposed to be SAFER. They could use infrared or lidar or laser or any number of object detection sensors. No visible light is needed.

4) Some experts are saying this vehicle had radar and laser sensors. WTF! If they were really using these sensors then their whole system is totally fucked. I am super curious to find out what happened. It could be that the bicycle wheels caused a undetectable pattern (like stealth) so the detection didn't work.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 13ae3054cb

5) The "driver" was not paying much attentions but she had little chance of stopping this. The idea that a driver can help in these split second events is retarded. I feel sorry for the driver... really... she is going to have PTSD after this.

If I was the engineer in charge of this system I would be puking my guts out over this right now. NHTSA should stop this Uber fleet immediately.

[Brive1987]

What happens when the liberal left fail in their intellectual duty.

[Brive1987]

Hot of the press is Southerns Luton terrorist act.

KIRB, feel free to parse it for wrong-think and / or unacceptable “journalism”

[Shatterface]

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Shared with who? Other white people descended from white Europeans? Is there something distinctively African about the language? Culture? Political system? Economy? Faith? They are all imported from Europe.

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

Those countries were sparsely populated before whitey arrived, but yes, they treated the indiginous populations abominable. But white people are a minority in Africa. If you want ethnostatea you have to find somewhere to resettle them. If they are as 'African' as you think they are they are going to find it difficult to adjust to the language, culture and wearing trousers.

Sometimes you must wake at night in a sweat, realising that what you say on the Pit stays on the Pit.

:mrgreen:

I'm happy to stick by my opinion that race-based identity politics is a load of shit.

What changed your mind?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

5) The "driver" was not paying much attentions but she had little chance of stopping this. The idea that a driver can help in these split second events is retarded. I feel sorry for the driver... really... she is going to have PTSD after this.

Wait. She?!? I wouldn't have guessed. Honestly.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

What's all this shit with "white", "black", "race", "ethnicity", etc...?

As far as I'm concerned, the only important issue is culture, be it guided by religious beliefs or traditional values. Some cultures are just not compatible with each others.

[MarcusAu]

I'm happy to stick by my opinion that race-based identity politics is a load of shit.
...

I broadly agree - with Grawks being the one exception:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-s9yMvtaPfZ4/ ... 030015.JPG

[Brive1987]

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Shared with who? Other white people descended from white Europeans? Is there something distinctively African about the language? Culture? Political system? Economy? Faith? They are all imported from Europe.

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

Those countries were sparsely populated before whitey arrived, but yes, they treated the indiginous populations abominable. But white people are a minority in Africa. If you want ethnostatea you have to find somewhere to resettle them. If they are as 'African' as you think they are they are going to find it difficult to adjust to the language, culture and wearing trousers.

Sometimes you must wake at night in a sweat, realising that what you say on the Pit stays on the Pit.

:mrgreen:

I'm happy to stick by my opinion that race-based identity politics is a load of shit.

What changed your mind?

How about ethnic or cultural based identity politics? As executed thru the national construct. Or are you “post national”.

Hint. Your valued enlightened values did not spring out of Africa et al - these people have their own traditions.

[free thoughtpolice]

Hot of the press is Southerns Luton terrorist act.

KIRB, feel free to parse it for wrong-think and / or unacceptable “journalism”


Journalist? Social scientist? Internet attention whore?

[Brive1987]

What's all this shit with "white", "black", "race", "ethnicity", etc...?

As far as I'm concerned, the only important issue is culture, be it guided by religious beliefs or traditional values. Some cultures are just not compatible with each others.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 14-h355-nc

[Guest_d2e60302]

5) The "driver" was not paying much attentions but she had little chance of stopping this. The idea that a driver can help in these split second events is retarded. I feel sorry for the driver... really... she is going to have PTSD after this.

Wait. She?!? I wouldn't have guessed. Honestly.

Heh, just wait until you find out the rest of her story.

By which I mean of course, the two felonies (including for armed robbery) and slew of bad driving tickets and accidents She accumulated in her lifetime

Happy ubering, your drivers are professional transportation experts

[Shatterface]

How about ethnic or cultural based identity politics? As executed thru the national construct. Or are you “post national”.

Hint. Your valued enlightened values did not spring out of Africa et al - these people have their own traditions.

My Enlightenment values don't come from attention whores and ex-cons.

[Guest_d2e60302]

Hot of the press is Southerns Luton terrorist act.

KIRB, feel free to parse it for wrong-think and / or unacceptable “journalism”


Journalist? Social scientist? Internet attention whore?

I think all three, plus she's a brave Intersectionality Space Explorer.
I think she scored 100,000% on that video, and I wish her the best, I hope she finds the funds to cram that video up the UK gov'ts ass arse.

[MarcusAu]

Why is there a Tribble on that man's shoulder?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

It's photoshop'd.

[jugheadnaut]

1) For sure the pedestrian was do something really stupid... j-walking at night across a high speed road. If this had been a normal vehicle she would be asking for trouble.

Well, at least you've gone from "just strolling across the road" to "doing something really stupid" and conceding a human operated vehicle would likely have hit her. It certainly would be nice if autonomous vehicles were so much safer than human operated it could avoid situations like this, and there's a good chance some tech in the car didn't work as designed and Uber should certainly investigate and improve the design. But how much safer than a human operated vehicle does an autonomous vehicle have to be before you won't call on the NHTSA to ground the fleet? If an autonomous vehicle is 20% safer than a human operated vehicle, but there are certain areas where the tech isn't working as well as hoped, should the cars be pulled off the road? How does that promote road safety? There's a natural regulatory bias where adverse events caused by something are weighted far higher than the benefits produced by that thing which has frequently had the effect of keeping beneficial products off the market, especially in pharmaceuticals. I'd rather that not happen with autonomous vehicles.

[Brive1987]

How about ethnic or cultural based identity politics? As executed thru the national construct. Or are you “post national”.

Hint. Your valued enlightened values did not spring out of Africa et al - these people have their own traditions.

My Enlightenment values don't come from attention whores and ex-cons.

Which is useful information, but hardly pertinent to my point.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm on a streak with unpopular opinions.

The woman was crossing the road in a very dark place, with dark clothes, and wasn't looking at the oncoming traffic. A human driver would have hit her in the same way the autobot did. What was she expecting? That the car was indeed an autobot and should have reacted? That she wasn't a fucking moron crossing a high speed road with her bicycle in tow without looking around for incoming cars? Basic childhood training 101: look both sides of the road before crossing.

Now, Uber system: complete shit if the lasers, radars, and other similar gadgetery can't avoid this situation. But Uber is shit anyway.

"Driver": do your job and avoid watching TV shows, movies, whatever... while assessing a product that can kill. It's not a fully evaluated system yet. If you get paid for that level of commitment, please send me a few contacts I can bargain with.

[Guest_d2e60302]

1) For sure the pedestrian was do something really stupid... j-walking at night across a high speed road. If this had been a normal vehicle she would be asking for trouble.

Well, at least you've gone from "just strolling across the road" to "doing something really stupid" and conceding a human operated vehicle would likely have hit her. It certainly would be nice if autonomous vehicles were so much safer than human operated it could avoid situations like this, and there's a good chance some tech in the car didn't work as designed and Uber should certainly investigate and improve the design. But how much safer than a human operated vehicle does an autonomous vehicle have to be before you won't call on the NHTSA to ground the fleet? If an autonomous vehicle is 20% safer than a human operated vehicle, but there are certain areas where the tech isn't working as well as hoped, should the cars be pulled off the road? How does that promote road safety? There's a natural regulatory bias where adverse events caused by something are weighted far higher than the benefits produced by that thing which has frequently had the effect of keeping beneficial products off the market, especially in pharmaceuticals. I'd rather that not happen with autonomous vehicles.

I was trained and have a license to drive a car. Periodically, I have to be retested on the laws and even my ability to drive is retested. My car is regularly inspected to make sure it is safe and has no known risks. The car manufacturer tests the car, physically to make sure it is safe.

If I am found at fault in an accident, I can lose my license, lose my home, and go to jail.

This is true for me and all other drivers.

Now, some dweeb at Uber may not even have a license to drive or know how to drive. They may walk, bike, take the trolley to work.

If they have a bug in the program, they will not lose a license, or pay a fine, or go to jail.

They may not even find the bug for years and years ... and years.

Uber has no way to systematically test their code, if they did, they wouldn't need to test it on actual roads.

Uber cannot show their cars are safe if there is a monitor in the car. This recent accident shows that, but even worse, it's quite conceivable a car could get itself into a position where no driver could ever save it (oops, drove off the side of the highway and now we're plunging down the canyon)

None of us have signed any consent forms granting our acceptance into this brave new world of auto experimentation, and it's very much unclear that the governors and mayors that grant our consent have any real understanding of how this shit actually works or what its limitations are.

The nerd at Uber, the project manager at uber, the product manager at uber, the CEO at Uber, and all those lawyers at uber and their lobbyists are motivated solely by one thing, and that thing is not getting the pedestrian, the bicyclists, kids, other drivers, or even their own passenger or monitor home safely at night.

Their motivation is getting to be the number one brand name in self driving cars.

also, conceding a human operated vehicle would likely have hit her that is not at all clear. The pedestrian was hit on a clear night with no traffic crossing slowly within 50 feet of two functioning streetlights and was hit with a car that uses LIDAR not dashcams. What dashcams see is not at all what people see, and you can visit r/roadcam to find many videos of people swerving to avoid things that never appear on the dashcam.

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/19427/uber ... n-autonomy

[John D]

1) For sure the pedestrian was do something really stupid... j-walking at night across a high speed road. If this had been a normal vehicle she would be asking for trouble.

Well, at least you've gone from "just strolling across the road" to "doing something really stupid" and conceding a human operated vehicle would likely have hit her. It certainly would be nice if autonomous vehicles were so much safer than human operated it could avoid situations like this, and there's a good chance some tech in the car didn't work as designed and Uber should certainly investigate and improve the design. But how much safer than a human operated vehicle does an autonomous vehicle have to be before you won't call on the NHTSA to ground the fleet? If an autonomous vehicle is 20% safer than a human operated vehicle, but there are certain areas where the tech isn't working as well as hoped, should the cars be pulled off the road? How does that promote road safety? There's a natural regulatory bias where adverse events caused by something are weighted far higher than the benefits produced by that thing which has frequently had the effect of keeping beneficial products off the market, especially in pharmaceuticals. I'd rather that not happen with autonomous vehicles.

As far as the "strolling across the road" comment goes.... I had expected that the pedestrian did something that would obviously be hard for the autonomous sensors to detect. But.... the car should have detected this person. No question about it. I am an auto engineer and spend some of my time developing autonomous related products. The product that killed this pedestrian was defective.... grossly defective in my opinion.

These products are not properly tested yet. They should not be on the road. Companies are using public roads and putting the public at risk to test out their un-proven products. I hope Uber gets their fucking ass sued off.

[Kirbmarc]

What's all this shit with "white", "black", "race", "ethnicity", etc...?

As far as I'm concerned, the only important issue is culture, be it guided by religious beliefs or traditional values. Some cultures are just not compatible with each others.

Cultures aren't monolith that came from outer space, though.

They're the product of interactions of ideas, of mixing of thoughts. They copy things from each other, they influence each other. And yes, they can easily clash.

But to turn cultures into identity politics is to diminish them, disempower them. To turn values into badges of tribal affiliation is to empty them of meaning beyond "Us vs. Them".

More prosaically, sure you can limit immigration (cleverly or stupidly) but what the hell are you going to do to the people from other cultures who already live in your country? What with their children? What do you want to do in those cases?

Apartheid? Steersman-esque "population transfers?

[John D]

Uber has no way to systematically test their code, if they did, they wouldn't need to test it on actual roads.

Not true - They just don't want to spend the money to setup a proper test plan and take the time to execute it. Most of the rest of your comments I agree with.

[Guest_d2e60302]

"Driver": do your job and avoid watching TV shows, movies, whatever... while assessing a product that can kill.

The driver was clearly distracted, but it's not clear yet the driver wasn't doing her job.

It might be that she was reading and following test plans instructions sent to her from Uber, or scanning a map. Uber sends tons of messages to cars while the car is in motion and Uber drivers spend a lot of time heads down scanning maps because they know if they take you down the wrong street, you'll give them a low rating. I can certainly imagine that in a driverless car program they are sending instructions to the driver in real time.

Or maybe not, maybe she was playing candy crush.

It's still not at all clear that a human can save a car from killing itself and others once that car has taken some idiot buggy shitty decision.

In this case, first reports are that the car never initiated braking, so if you're the monitor, you have to see the person, recognize the car is not braking and then hit the brakes. By all accounts, once she reacted, she reacted fairly quickly, but that may not have been enough time no matter what.

[Ape+lust]

Wait. She?!? I wouldn't have guessed. Honestly.

Your eyes need callibrating for our shiny new world.

Spot the woman. Take your time.

[Shatterface]

How about ethnic or cultural based identity politics? As executed thru the national construct. Or are you “post national”.

Hint. Your valued enlightened values did not spring out of Africa et al - these people have their own traditions.

My Enlightenment values don't come from attention whores and ex-cons.

Which is useful information, but hardly pertinent to my point.

Which was? Remind me of the part Australia played in the Enlightenment.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

What is the enthnonationalist response to South Africa? If it has to belong to one ethnicity it has to be black Africans doesn't it? You can't have a white Europe if you don't have a black Africa.

I already made this comparison. But apparently it's different because the white South African aren't recent immigrants.

If you meet white South Africans (let alone marry one) you quickly realise their culture and ethnicity is African. As always you play free and fast with race and ethnicity. Your same warped logic returns Australia to the “Jackey Jackey”

Not really, at least in the case of Sub Saharan Africa. Totally different environment. Poorly defined nation states if they existed at all, sparse populations and no technology or infrastructure to speak of. There's no comparison between the occupying of land essentially uncontrolled by a government and immigration to a modern urban environment. Colonists were hardly moving into African villages. If there had been governed states with access to technology they would almost certainly have clamped down on immigration. What happened to Africa really has little bearing on the effects of immigration into Europe. The environment is different, the economic structure is completely different and the relative technological statuses of the indigenous people and colonisers is completely different.

In what way is it 'African'?

All the current arguments against immigration could more accurately be made about the colonies. If you want to argue that immigration is a major threat to Europe by using what happened to the countries we colonised that's at least a consistent argument.

Not really, at least in the case of Sub Saharan Africa. Totally different environment. Poorly defined nation states if they existed at all, sparse populations and no technology or infrastructure to speak of. There's no comparison between the occupying of land essentially uncontrolled by a government and immigration to a modern urban environment. Colonists were hardly moving into African villages. If there had been governed states with access to technology they would almost certainly have clamped down on immigration. What happened to Africa really has little bearing on the effects of immigration into Europe. The environment is different, the economic structure is completely different and the relative technological statuses of the indigenous people and colonisers is completely different.

[free thoughtpolice]

Which was? Remind me of the part Australia played in the Enlightenment.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

In what way is it 'African'?

All the current arguments against immigration could more accurately be made about the colonies. If you want to argue that immigration is a major threat to Europe by using what happened to the countries we colonised that's at least a consistent argument.

I worked with a guy from SA who married someone from Holland. Reported he was able to follow his wife's friends conversaton as long as they didn't talk too quickly.

Based on this we can probably consider South Africans to be 'Slow Dutch'.

If I come across one more person assuming white South African = Afrikaans I'm going to Thcream and hold my breath 'til I turn blue.

[pro-boxing-fan]

Which was? Remind me of the part Australia played in the Enlightenment.

I don't get the joke? Are you meaning Men's Without Hat are Australians? If yes you should get your Canadian citizenship revoked right now.

[free thoughtpolice]

:oops: They sound like kangaroo molesters. :doh:

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

In the sense that people in a nation state have an identity heavily influenced by common bonds, shared history and cultural expression - with all this heavily influenced by environment,

Shared with who? Other white people descended from white Europeans? Is there something distinctively African about the language? Culture? Political system? Economy? Faith? They are all imported from Europe.

Same for Australia. Same for the USA. Same for Canada. Same for New Zealand. You want to force an equivalence between current mass immigration (of people diffident about integration into existing national structures with extant cultures) and the development, from the 17th century on, of the modern world ... Meh.

Why stop there?

Those countries were sparsely populated before whitey arrived, but yes, they treated the indiginous populations abominable. But white people are a minority in Africa. If you want ethnostatea you have to find somewhere to resettle them. If they are as 'African' as you think they are they are going to find it difficult to adjust to the language, culture and wearing trousers.

as
It's an African subculture. African cultures are not static. Urban culture is as much African as traditional rural culture. South African whites can indeed have a hard time adjusting to life overseas.

[free thoughtpolice]

Actually, I meant tthis. Damned autocorrect.

[Guest_d2e60302]

The dashcam view is absolutely not what you would have seen with your nekkid eyes.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

What's all this shit with "white", "black", "race", "ethnicity", etc...?

As far as I'm concerned, the only important issue is culture, be it guided by religious beliefs or traditional values. Some cultures are just not compatible with each others.

Cultures aren't monolith that came from outer space, though.

They're the product of interactions of ideas, of mixing of thoughts. They copy things from each other, they influence each other. And yes, they can easily clash.

But to turn cultures into identity politics is to diminish them, disempower them. To turn values into badges of tribal affiliation is to empty them of meaning beyond "Us vs. Them".

More prosaically, sure you can limit immigration (cleverly or stupidly) but what the hell are you going to do to the people from other cultures who already live in your country? What with their children? What do you want to do in those cases?

Apartheid? Steersman-esque "population transfers?

Tell all of that to the poor old couple who saved up for a nice quiet little flat only to see Somalis take over the area, chase everyone else out with the noise, overcrowding, khat stained streets and gangs. They can't move because their property is worth shit and they are now living in a noisy hell. The point isn't that Somali culture is "wrong", it's that it is really different in ways that a Westerner can find hard to live with. Let enough Somalis in over too short a space of time and this is what will happen and the link between race and culture here is very strong. Long term assimilation and mutual changes of culture mean jack shit too the poor sods at ground zero. Obligatory: No, I am not saying there are no Somalis who don't fit that stereotype.

[free thoughtpolice]

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:

. South African whites can indeed have a hard time adjusting to life overseas.

The South Africans immigrants that have moved here (western Canada) seem to have adapted pretty well. Most I know of have been medical or other professionals so results may vary for the more blue collar crowd that may have moved here.

[John D]

The dashcam view is absolutely not what you would have seen with your nekkid eyes.

Wow... crap. The driver could have easily seen the pedestrian if this is a more accurate view of the lighting. Oh my.

[jugheadnaut]

I was trained and have a license to drive a car. Periodically, I have to be retested on the laws and even my ability to drive is retested. My car is regularly inspected to make sure it is safe and has no known risks. The car manufacturer tests the car, physically to make sure it is safe.

If I am found at fault in an accident, I can lose my license, lose my home, and go to jail.

This is true for me and all other drivers.

Now, some dweeb at Uber may not even have a license to drive or know how to drive. They may walk, bike, take the trolley to work.

Don't know what you're talking about. Uber drivers are required to be licensed. Hard to imagine a jurisdiction that would grant an exemption from licensing specificaly for driving other people in your own car. In Toronto, Uber drivers must have a class of license more stringent than what ordinary drivers have. If you're referring specifically to backup drivers in autonomous vehicles while they're being piloted, as these vehicles still haven't been formally certified as self-driving vehicles, I'm sure the same licensing provisions apply to them. Or are you referring to the people writing the software? If so, this is such an obviously specious argument I'm not even going to bother with it.

Uber has no way to systematically test their code, if they did, they wouldn't need to test it on actual roads.

Nonsense on stilts. That's what a beta test is and applies to all software. There isn't a software company in the world that would release a product before a real-world beta test, even in a trivial area where safety isn't a concern.

Uber cannot show their cars are safe if there is a monitor in the car. This recent accident shows that, but even worse, it's quite conceivable a car could get itself into a position where no driver could ever save it (oops, drove off the side of the highway and now we're plunging down the canyon)

They certainly can. The monitor is there as a backup during this testing phase and the company is keeping tabs on what the monitor is doing, hence the cab facing camera. If the monitor has to frequently intervene, it will be clear the car can't be certified as a self-driving car and would not be allowed on the roads with no monitor.

The nerd at Uber, the project manager at uber, the product manager at uber, the CEO at Uber, and all those lawyers at uber and their lobbyists are motivated solely by one thing, and that thing is not getting the pedestrian, the bicyclists, kids, other drivers, or even their own passenger or monitor home safely at night.

Their motivation is getting to be the number one brand name in self driving cars.

How exactly do you become the number one brand in self driving cars if you can't get your cars certified as road worthy and you're getting dozens of wrongful death lawsuits a month? It's ludicrous to think safety isn't their overriding self-interest at this point.

also, conceding a human operated vehicle would likely have hit her that is not at all clear. The pedestrian was hit on a clear night with no traffic crossing slowly within 50 feet of two functioning streetlights and was hit with a car that uses LIDAR not dashcams. What dashcams see is not at all what people see, and you can visit r/roadcam to find many videos of people swerving to avoid things that never appear on the dashcam.

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/19427/uber ... n-autonomy

With a decent quality dashcam, the image captured is extremely close to what the eye sees and isn't necessarily darker than what the eye sees at night. In fact, the nighttime images from my own dashcam are actually slightly brighter and have slightly higher contrast than what I see with my eyes. Given that the purpose of the pilots Uber is running is to gather information to prove their self-driving cars are safe, I find it impossible to believe they would be installing low-quality dashcams in their test cars. Claiming what we see in the video is not representative of what a human driver would have seen is pure supposition. BTW, I did go to r/roadcam to see if this was a common claim, and didn't find any such videos after trying several searches. I'm genuinely curious. If you can find a few, please post the links.