There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2761

Post by Kirbmarc »

KiwiInOz wrote: (And love your hall monitor badge avatar, Kirbmarc. Have Clarence and co kissed and made up?)
Thanks. The avatar is from Girl Genius, a webcomic I like:
Pax Transylvania (also The Baron's Peace or Pax Wulfenbachia) is the name for the peace built and enforced by Baron Klaus Wulfenbach's irresistible takeover of Europa after he returned from exile.
It is based on one simple subsidiarian, patriarchal principle: "Don't Make Me Come Over There". Aggression between or against his client states is not allowed.
https://i.imgur.com/hr96SOV.jpg

Of course as a Slymepitter I just can't help but love patriarchy :bjarte:

Old_ones
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2762

Post by Old_ones »

heddle wrote:
gurugeorge wrote: From my own digging around about "The Holocaust" I think the truth is far from clear, and quite frankly, what I think actually happened is that the "gas chambers used to genocide 6 million Jews" idea was initially a Soviet invention...
I hope this a Poe or satire that I'm not catching--because if you are serious then you're a fucking idiot.
I'm going to go with he's a fucking idiot. This is far from the first shockingly stupid thing I've seen him post.

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2763

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:12 pm
Hemant Mehta continues his metamorphosis into PZ Myers, here exalting denial of free speech protection to anything he considers "bigotry":
He’s confusing his bigotry, which had no redeeming value, with genuinely interesting authors and artists whose works are banned because they might encourage people to think about taboo topics.
Will I finally be banned?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... 3747633223
Hey, look. A February 7 piece in which Hemant mocks a religious guy because he talked shit about known hate speech monger islamophobe Christopher Hitchens. Why is Hemant defending someone who spewed such hateful speech into the world?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... tionships/

deLurch
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2764

Post by deLurch »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:00 am
Shatterface wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:08 am
I don't think it's coincidence that the people most likely to question the Holocaust are the first to believe Israelis kill Palestinian kids just for kicks.
I was probably the first to believe this because I used to volunteer for EI, and knew people who witnessed it happen. In fact the journalists would get shot at too. Probably not purely for kicks, no doubt intimidation plays a factor.

I would be interested to know if people who uncritically accept orthodox holocaust history are also the first to believe Palestinians attack school busses?
My understanding on the whole bombing kids thing is that the Palestinians carrying out attacks would use the safety location of the kids as cover assuming the Israelis would not attack back. Kind of like how some warring factions might hide out in a hospital for cover. A no win situation until the Israelis decided to attack back anyway. Now the attacking Palestinians know that the Israelis will not hesitate to strike back, even if they are hiding out in a school. So all that gambit does is result in both them and the kids potentially dying. Who knows. Maybe the Palestinians prefer the PR blow back.

The tactic taken by the Israelis is brutally efficient.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2765

Post by Lsuoma »

Shatterface wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:00 am
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: based,
They found nothing of Cheshire man but his smile.
What about Bellendo Man?

Guest_d2e60302

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2766

Post by Guest_d2e60302 »



Make of this what you will, it's posted on youtube by "very fake news", but I think they are using that ironically.

It's about a march in Sweden and if I understand correctly,

some right wing folks who may or may not be gay led a gay pride parade through a predominantly muslim area.

people who may or may not be antifa came out to protest them, presumably because they were provoking the muslims and should have stayed away.

beats me

KiwiInOz
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2767

Post by KiwiInOz »

Lsuoma wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:00 am
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: based,
They found nothing of Cheshire man but his smile.
What about Bellendo Man?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/11/50/08/1150 ... -stuff.jpg

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2768

Post by John D »

Jesus! What a shit week. My son-in-law just messaged me to tell me that my daughter just checked into the psychiatric hospital and that he thinks their marriage may be over. God is testing me.... .fuck you GOD!

Steersman
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2769

Post by Steersman »

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:
But while Twitter wasn't particularly forthcoming in my latest "transgression", I think the difference between my tweet and yours is that I just quoted a phrase that might be construed as racist - and gave some justification that it wasn't, whereas yours may have qualified as explicitly racist, though without the context it's kind of hard to tell. Think the difference is largely the "use-mention" dichotomy that Benson has alluded to.
reminds me of some story of abused kids, or slaves, or victims of some irrational tyrant, all trying to come up with rationalizations for this asshole's bullshit behavior.
?? Which "asshole"? Which "behaviour"?
Guest_d2e60302 wrote: chances are, you just got a different person with different standards, and if someone else looked at it, you'd be triple fucked

no rhyme nor reason
Possibly just a case of a "different person [etc]", but I wonder if Twitter has some AI programs doing all the hit jobs. Although one would expect a bit more consistency in that case.

But a bit of a serious problem that Twitter seems to be banning or suspending people for various trivial offenses, including rather innocuous "transgressions" - so to speak:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT-Zl68VoAArlHg.jpg:large

If you're on Twitter, or maybe even if you're not, you might check out the hashtag #LabourLosingWomen which is, as I commented on recently, a result of many women objecting to the Party allowing transwomen onto women-only lists. Bit moot the wisdom of what is essentially affirmative action, but it highlights a problem with the definition for "woman".

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2770

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote: Jesus! What a shit week. My son-in-law just messaged me to tell me that my daughter just checked into the psychiatric hospital and that he thinks their marriage may be over. God is testing me.... .fuck you GOD!
That all sucks, man.

deLurch
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2771

Post by deLurch »

John D wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:06 pm
Jesus! What a shit week. My son-in-law just messaged me to tell me that my daughter just checked into the psychiatric hospital and that he thinks their marriage may be over. God is testing me.... .fuck you GOD!
The open marriage/open relationship daughter?

That marriage was over before it started. Everyone knew that. They just had to figure that out for themselves.

Don't say anything. They may opt to give it another go. Plus he isn't so much of the problem as he is the selected doormat.

Lsuoma
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2772

Post by Lsuoma »

John D wrote: Jesus! What a shit week. My son-in-law just messaged me to tell me that my daughter just checked into the psychiatric hospital and that he thinks their marriage may be over. God is testing me.... .fuck you GOD!
Hasa Diga Eebowai!


Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2773

Post by Brive1987 »

There is a school of thought that contends the picture below actually shows German soldiers bravely fighting off partisans or other armed undesirables just off the right side while protecting the civilians in the foreground. The woman and child no doubt placed flowers in their button holes as a token of thanks

Bit of a discussion here.
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/2 ... ivanhorod/



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 6y4F8t95tI

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2774

Post by free thoughtpolice »


Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2775

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Brive1987 wrote: There is a school of thought that contends the picture below actually shows German soldiers bravely fighting off partisans or other armed undesirables just off the right side while protecting the civilians in the foreground. The woman and child no doubt placed flowers in their button holes as a token of thanks

Bit of a discussion here.
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/2 ... ivanhorod/



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 6y4F8t95tI
That photo's composition makes no sense. There are signs of retouching. Someone with the appropriate knowledge could identify those rifles and uniforms.

I have a WWII history book from the DDR. It is filled with outrageous montages and retouchings. I expect this is another example.

gurugeorge
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2776

Post by gurugeorge »

heddle wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:56 am
gurugeorge wrote: From my own digging around about "The Holocaust" I think the truth is far from clear, and quite frankly, what I think actually happened is that the "gas chambers used to genocide 6 million Jews" idea was initially a Soviet invention...
I hope this a Poe or satire that I'm not catching--because if you are serious then you're a fucking idiot.
I'm serious. Although I wouldn't say I'm 100% confident, it seems the most likely hypothesis to me in the general context of the 3 central planks of the revisionist hypothesis (which I'm coming more and more to believe) that a) there was no genocidal extermination plan, b) no gas chambers, and c) no 6 million exterminated. Here's a Jewish writer thinking along the same lines:-
The first reports of the mass slaughter of Jews by the Germans were propagated in the spring of 1942 by Jewish and Zionist agencies and published in the Jewish press. These entirely uncorroborated reports received immediate and unmatched credibility by being broadcast (on one occasion in Yiddish) back into Poland by the BBC, and by repetition in the American press, particularly the New York Times. They spoke for the first time of extermination, but not only by gas. According to these reports Jews were being steamed to death, suffocated to death, pressed to death and electrocuted as well as being gassed. It is only later in reports compiled by the Soviet authorities, when they liberated the camps of Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1944 and 1945, that gassing emerges as the main method of slaughter and even later, as just one element in the shower-gas-cremation sequence which now lies at the heart of the Holocaust narrative.

It is with these Soviet reports, plus others from the World Refugee Board, that the now-familiar extermination narrative emerges. The victims disembark from trains for selection. Those designated for extermination are taken to complexes designed to look like disinfection facilities. There they are separated into sexes and led to undressing rooms where they undress. Then they are led, 600-700 at a time, into huge rooms resembling shower rooms. When the rooms are crammed full, Zyklon B pellets are dropped from apertures in the roof and, as the temperature rises, hydrogen cyanide gas is released. The victims take about five to fifteen minutes to die, watched all the time through glass peepholes in the doors by SS personnel. An interval of about half an hour is allowed for the gas to clear, assisted by a ventilation system, after which a Jewish Sonderkommando (special detachment) enters with gas masks, rubber boots, gloves, hooks and hoses to disentangle, hose down and remove the bodies. The bodies are taken to mortuaries, where gold teeth etc. are extracted with pliers, and they are then transported to crematoria where they are burned to ashes. If the number of corpses should prove to be too great for the cremation facilities, then those remaining are taken to be burned in specially designed open pits.

[...]

So these Soviet reports with their now-detailed descriptions of the shower-gas-cremation procedure of extermination, coming after three years of other terrifying reports of exterminations of Jews and others by the Germans, and also in the context of fears in Europe about the use of gas as a weapon used against civilians and of cremation as a new and unfamiliar method of the disposing of bodies, could possibly have been instrumental in laying the foundations of the Holocaust gas-chamber narrative as we know it. Certainly from the time of those reports, the mere presence of showers, disinfestation gas chambers and crematoria had become in itself evidence of mass homicidal gassing.

- The Holocaust Wars, Paul Eisen

rayshul
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2777

Post by rayshul »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:11 am
shoutinghorse wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 am
Breastfeeding support clinics .. :|

What is breastfeeding "support"? Like you hold up the dug? I'd volunteer.
It's basically working with your shit kids to get them to suckle and not be shit.

gurugeorge
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2778

Post by gurugeorge »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:00 am
gurugeorge wrote: The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).
I'm no Holocaust expert (Brive?) but this looks like complete bullshit, considering that the minutes of the Wannsee conference count up to 11 million Jews in Europe, of which 5 only in the USSR.
I don't think the Wannsee thing is relevant to my point. I haven't looked into Wannsee much, but from what I can gather the document is genuine, but slightly doctored to remove a bit of evidence that makes it more likely that the "final solution" discussed was actually a mass deportation. Obviously it's still a pretty horrible document, but it's not the "smoking gun" for the traditional Holocaust narrative that it's often purported to be. As with a lot of the stuff down this rabbit hole, the orthodox narrative argues circularly that the language is deliberately coy (in this specific case, deliberately coy in not explicitly mentioning extermination). Well, yeah, it crystallizes as coy IF the Holocaust narrative is true - but isn't that the very question at issue?

Relevant to the the idea that the 6 million figure was a kind of traditional/symbolic estimate:- here's a list of "6 million Jews" mentions in US newspapers from the 1900s to the 1930s. I'd forgotten the list actually goes back before the 1920s. Also, the 1930s articles see use of the specific word "Holocaust."

Now admittedly, that is a list from a partisan, badly-designed website. So in case you're doubting, here's a meticulously-done corroborating video by someone who gone to the trouble of getting 10 of the actual newspapers from archives and filming them (curiously, the first mention he looks at, the Sun, isn't in the above list, but the others are). Not much room for doubt there, I'm sure you'll agree!

A glimpse of a possible abyss if there ever was one ;)

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2779

Post by John D »

Wooooooot. So, it's complicated, but my daughter is much like my wife.... kind and generous, but she has a kind of self hatred that is hard to fix. So, my son-in-law is saying he is done with my daughter because she doesn't carry her own weight. And... I'm like... dude... she will never hold her own weight because she is just like her mom and... well... I did almost all the work because I am the workhorse in the relationship. And he is like... well... that was not the deal... and I'm like... well.... if you don' t take this deal then there is no deal. And... I am crying cause my kid is in the psych hospital and I may not even be able to call her tomorrow cause of the rules.... and my wife starts into the problem we had yesterday when she ate 3000 carb calories after being diagnosed with diabetes... so... just now we screamed at each other with me saying "why don't you love yourself enough to take care of yourself?" Oh man. About a month ago I thought I was livin the dream. How easily it all falls apart.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2780

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

John D wrote: Jesus! What a shit week. My son-in-law just messaged me to tell me that my daughter just checked into the psychiatric hospital and that he thinks their marriage may be over. God is testing me.... .fuck you GOD!
John, that really bites. Hold fast, it'll get better.

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2781

Post by John D »

OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2782

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

John D wrote: OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.
Notice how
Ahhh, a cell phone might be a better choice than booze. De-Escalation being the order of the moment.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2783

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Sorry, trying to multitask. Try de-escalation.

gurugeorge
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2784

Post by gurugeorge »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
Please elaborate on what this "digging around" of yours constituted. I have a funny feeling the name "David Irving" is gonna come up.
I haven't even read any David Irving yet. I've looked mainly at Nizkor (plus associated rabbit holes) for the pro side and at VHO/IHR/CODOH (plus associated rabbit holes) for the con side. Of course that's only scratching the surface of this humungous timesink.

Some responses to some of your points:-
The vans/buses were an early experiment, whereby the engine exhaust was piped into the sealed vehicle, which was driven around into those inside died. It was slow and inefficient, so they went back to mass shootings for the time being. The proven existence of these vans in no way indicates the gas chambers were fake.
I never said they did. The lack of evidence for gas chambers is what indicates that the gas chambers were fake.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
But there were no gas chambers or evidence of genocidal mass execution at the camps liberated by the Allies...
The camps in the west were not operated as extermination camps. The death camps designed to carry out the Final Solution were understandably established in the East, close to the population to be exterminated.
Yet the curious thing is that initially the Allies did claim that the Western camps were death camps too. Initially, the narrative was that ALL all the camps were both work camps and death camps and that almost all of them had gas chambers. That was scaled back to "oops, it was just the Eastern camps" only relatively recently.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
... there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz; the "gas chamber" and "crematorium" there are a post-war Soviet constructions based around the shower facilities - straightforward propaganda.
This assertion is completely untenable in the face of extensive and corroborating evidence from multiple sources, including: official reports; eyewitness accounts of both guards and prisoners; numerous physical structures; blueprints. cf. http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... hwitz.html

That the Soviets 're-created' a gas chamber for tourists in the wrong building, does not negate this mountain of evidence.
"Wrong building" in relation to what correct building? Re. official reports: there is no unambiguous documentary evidence of any extermination order re. gas chamber genocide (not like there is for the mass shootings). Re. eyewitness accounts of guards: the Höss testimony, which is the key guard testimony (it's even quoted in the article you link) looks like it was extracted under torture. Re. eyewitness accounts of prisoners: many of those have fallen apart down the years. A lot of it seems to be hearsay, particularly the recurring theme of people being taken away to be executed. One interesting example: a survivor guest on the Montel Williams show that had David Cole and Mark Weber making the revisionist case in the mid 90s, claimed his brother had been taken away and executed, he was really sure of it. He was later joyously reunited with his brother on a return appearance on the Williams show; and his brother had thought he had been taken away and executed! Someone had seen the show and noticed the guy on telly had the same name as a survivor he knew, and wondered if they were related ...

But one important thing that I mentioned that I'd like to reiterate at this point, relative to the question of eyewitness testimony, is that there is also eyewitness testimony from survivors that does not corroborate the gas chambers narrative - eyewitness testimony that corroborates that Auschwitz was in fact precisely what it said on the gates, a work camp. As good Bayesians, shouldn't we take that into account? Or were those eyewitnesses the wrong, self-hating kinds of Jews? ;)

In relation to this point you say "Auschwitz and other KZ had ancillary work camps where conditions were better and the probability of survival was higher." But the whole vast multiplex was a work camp, that's what the barracks were there for, natch, to house workers. Now the orthodox narrative has it that some prisoners were worked then gassed, but that's what the contrary testimony contradicts.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
You seem to be claiming that, if the gas chambers were either not real, or only in limited use, then the nazis could not have murdered 6 million jews. Yet you've acknowledged that in just a few months, they were able to shoot 300,000 (which, as I've shown, easily reached half a million), and you acknowledge another million or more via starvation, exhaustion, and disease. The nazis most certainly did use gas chambers, but they didn't need them.
They did unless you can provide evidence of 6 million shot in mass executions.

At any rate, the traditional Holocaust narrative I grew up with when I had my eyes glued to The World At War on the telly as a kid, drinking in Sir Laurence Olivier's gravitas-laden intonements, had the gas chambers as the distinguishing feature of a mass genocide perpetrated deliberately and with insectile precision by the Nazis. If it turns out they just kinda-sorta used gas chambers a bit, on a few occasions (like they seem to have done for the purposes of eugenics just before the war), that's quite a climb-down.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
Another curious side-light is that a lethal dose of Zyklon B produces a cyanotic appearance in the deceased, and nowhere is that reported in any of the eyewitness testimony
So do you accept the eyewitness reports, which confirm the existence and regular use of gas chambers, or not?
Eh? I'm saying rather that the absence of that kind of detail seems to cast doubt on the eyewitness testimony.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
Zyklon B's active agent is hydrogen cyanide, which had been widely and safely used as a pesticide and fumigant for 60 years in a variety of locations, from orchards to ship's holds, without the need for "carefully insulated electronics." Nevertheless, inhaling it is fatal, so all that is required is to: 1) prevent the victim from escaping, and; 2) provide a modicum of protection for the killers. Since the gas is heavier than air, and the canisters were dropped through the ceiling, this was easily achieved.
Obviously you don't need that degree of care with de-lousing doses of the stuff. But I think it's reasonable to suppose that you would if you were using the stuff in lethal doses, since the gas is hyper-flammable.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 am
It's also quite insane that there is now a supposedly historical event that people can go to jail in some countries for doubting, and it beggars belief that many rationalists and public figures can just let that go without comment or complaint.
If you want to seriously approach this topic -- and be taken seriously -- instead of repeating easily debunked denialist sniping, do some hard number-crunching. You can start with the Krakow Ghetto. in 1941, 68,000 Jews lived in Krakow. The nazis relocated all but 15,000, the latter confined to the Ghetto, which was liquidated in early 1943. You have the figures in reports of the Sonderkommando that conducted the liquidation -- numbers killed on the spot, numbers send to KZ. The names of all 68,000 Krakow jews are available to you. Go track them down.
Sure, I'd be happy to. But your response doesn't address my point. Isn't it quite mad - and not a little bit suspicious - that questioning this one historical event should be criminalized?

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2785

Post by John D »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
John D wrote: OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.
Notice how
Ahhh, a cell phone might be a better choice than booze. De-Escalation being the order of the moment.
My wife doesn't even carry a cell phone.... and right now that makes me glad.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2786

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

John D wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
John D wrote: OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.
Notice how
Ahhh, a cell phone might be a better choice than booze. De-Escalation being the order of the moment.
My wife doesn't even carry a cell phone.... and right now that makes me glad.
Anger fades. Your dog around?

gurugeorge
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2787

Post by gurugeorge »

Sorry Jughead I missed your response, and now I'm too tired to go through yours in detail after responding to Matt's response. I'll just riff off one thing that I also pointed out to Matt that I think it's extremely important to stress. This means something, and it's a bit of a "tell" IMHO.
jugheadnaut wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:47 am
The extermination camps were basically all in the eastern part of German-helld territory, as Hitler had a mystic belief that the core of Jewish power lay in the east. It's no surprise that the western camps liberated by the Allies weren't extermination camps.
But the narrative for much of the 1950s was that ALMOST ALL THE CAMPS WERE DEATH CAMPS INCLUDING THE WESTERN ONES. And the image of gas chambers is indelibly linked to names like Belsen, Dachau, etc., in the public mind, as well as Auschwitz. But that has since been retracted by the reputable orthodox people, and this "only the Eastern ones" is a relatively recent invention.

What this reminds me of more than anything else, is the way in which Christians are taught a broad-brush picture of the gospels as definitely historical narratives, that's given out to the plebs with great certainty by preachers, but when people study the gospels in depth, academically, the academics (even at some of the evangelical colleges) know very well that the evidence for historicity in the gospels is pretty thin, and actually almost falls apart completely.

What my (admittedly only surface-scratching) investigations so far suggest to me is, as I said, that the initial narrative was Zionist, then Russian propaganda, and that the Allies generally took up the idea as a way to "de-nazify" masses of Germans.

There's archive footage of long lines of sobbing Germans being paraded in front of human lampshades and shrunken heads. THAT requirement, the requirement to kill an ideology stone dead, seems to me to be the real source of the Holocaust story as we know it. IOW, the tail is wagging the dog. And while it would be too harsh and pejorative to say that Jews have dined out on it ever since, there's a grain of truth to that, given the massive amounts of reparations the Germans have had to pay out, plus the way the Holocaust has been used to keep Whitey in his place ever since.

I know myself, before I started looking into this, I had an almost reflexive, instinctive feeling of guilt whenever I thought about WW2, even though that's quite irrational (my people were on the winning side, after all). And looking into the Holocaust in this way has sometimes made me feel almost physically ill, it's incredibly hard to break through that conditioning. And that has come from a weight of insistent certainty from multiple sources about a particular narrative that really does start to fall apart the more you look into it, just like the purported historicity of the gospels.

And I think that's the reason for the criminalisation of revisionism and denial. The Alt Righters joke about "Oi Vey! Shut it down! The Goyim Know!" and all that, but obviously at the time this narrative coalesced, there was no internet. Now that there's an internet, there's an increasing amount of fact-checking going on, and the doubt is building. I think the fear is very real, and quite justified, that a lot of people are going to be mightily pissed off if they feel they've been sold a bill of goods all these years. (One revisionist compared and contrasted in an interview: imagine someone questioning the large numbers of mass executions via guillotine during the French revolution. It would cause some controversy and kerfuffle, sure - but would it inspire the degree of fear, the sense of touching a live wire, that even thinking of doubting the Holocaust story we're familiar with induces?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2788

Post by rayshul »

John just peace out of this shit and go travel Europe, man

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2789

Post by MarcusAu »

free thoughtpolice wrote: <Joan fucking Osborne vid clipped>
In the interest of providing balance:


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2790

Post by Brive1987 »

gurugeorge wrote: Sorry Jughead I missed your response, and now I'm too tired to go through yours in detail after responding to Matt's response. I'll just riff off one thing that I also pointed out to Matt that I think it's extremely important to stress. This means something, and it's a bit of a "tell" IMHO.
jugheadnaut wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:47 am
The extermination camps were basically all in the eastern part of German-helld territory, as Hitler had a mystic belief that the core of Jewish power lay in the east. It's no surprise that the western camps liberated by the Allies weren't extermination camps.
But the narrative for much of the 1950s was that ALMOST ALL THE CAMPS WERE DEATH CAMPS INCLUDING THE WESTERN ONES. And the image of gas chambers is indelibly linked to names like Belsen, Dachau, etc., in the public mind, as well as Auschwitz. But that has since been retracted by the reputable orthodox people, and this "only the Eastern ones" is a relatively recent invention.

Snip
The level of discussion here is pretty light on.

Can we please distinguish between Auschwitz 1 and Birkenau, between the low intensity pilot Crem1, the Crem 2/3 conversions and the Crem 4/5 bespoke builds. Between original concentration camps, Ghettos, tank engine powered Reinhard death camps and the various facilities within the massive (and dispersed) Auschwitz complex. Can we isolate the T4 use of gas vans from the trials in Russia and their highly successful use at Chelmno.

You also have to stop seeing the Holocaust as a singular event. By Jan 20 1942 (Wannsee) the destruction of the Jews in Russia was already advanced. And Chelmno began sorting out the Jews of the Warthegau in a unilateral exercise starting the week before the conference.

Wannsee was concerned with the non Warthegau (ie the General Govt esp Warsaw) Polish Jews and those of southern and Western Europe.

It was specifically concerned with:
+ communicating the end of confusion over the JQ - their time was up.
+ ensuring the middle managers were all on the same page
+ aspects of logistics
+ locking in Heydrich as overall project owner

Like any high order plan it dealt with vision, outcome and command/control - not operational specifics. The mechanisms were still being sorted at the functionary level.

The Polish General Government issue was sorted using the purpose built Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzac camps. The wider European and the Polish odds and sods were dealt with quite differently at Auschwitz Birkenau via a graduated roll out of infrastructure culminating in the branch line and ramp built for the Hungarian action.

Re the JQ. The move from a fragmented non-policy in 1940-1941 to the focused initiatives of 1942 on is what occupies historians. This is a pretty good reconstruction: ...

On the one hand the Warthegau authorities were getting pissed that they were being sent the left over German Jews. The General Govt was pissed that the real deportations to slave labour in Russia weren’t eventuating and dirty ghettos were stabilising which were consuming resources. What’s the plan bob? In Summer the mid managers went to Berlin but were sent packing with orders to be patient.

Meanwhile the racially driven Jewish / Communist war in the east was radicalising. The Einsatzgruppen progressed from killing communists to male Jews to all Jews within a 6 month period. And then December 1941 happened. America had spent 1941 escalating its stance against Germany, sinking Uboats and shit. Hitler saw Roosevelt as the stooge of international Jewry and the American initiatives as another front in his racial war. When Japan attacked he formalised a war he felt was already being waged. As early as 1939 Hitler had publicly announced a World Jewish War would see the destruction of European Jewry. With 3 million Polish Jews at large, in late 1941 he gave the nod and the gears ground into action. No more confusion.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2791

Post by Brive1987 »

John Im sorry to see your troubles. She will be back. She's pissed off you called her out. She will need to want to sort her issues. There is no point helping someone who doesnt really want the stated outcome. Cards are on the table.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2792

Post by Shatterface »

For the record, I don't think questioning the Holocaust should be a criminal offence. Prison is the wrong kind of institution for people who are suffering a mental illness.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2793

Post by deLurch »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:57 pm
John D wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
John D wrote: OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.
Notice how
Ahhh, a cell phone might be a better choice than booze. De-Escalation being the order of the moment.
My wife doesn't even carry a cell phone.... and right now that makes me glad.
Anger fades. Your dog around?
Good call when all he has is booze in the house.

When life gives you dogs, make dogade.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2794

Post by Brive1987 »

I find it ironic that for me denialism is what shoots a red flare of crazy about the alt right - especially when mixed with a dose of "its all about race not ethnic culture". However it appears that for others, denialism is the AR"s only saving grace.

I'd venture that when Irving, Leuchter and Mattogno are your proponents you really need to step back from the abyss.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2795

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote: I find it ironic that for me denialism is what shoots a red flare of crazy about the alt right - especially when mixed with a dose of "its all about race not ethnic culture". However it appears that for others, denialism is the AR"s only saving grace.

I'd venture that when Irving, Leuchter and Mattogno are your proponents you really need to step back from the abyss.
I think that you and some others have different definitions of what is "alt-right". To be honest to you I never really understood what you mean by "alt-right", in practice, beyond "defending culture", which is a bit of an empty slogan by itself. Quite clearly you're not on board with the Richard Spencer project of a "safe space for white people", as you've written and shown many times.

So what is it that you want in practice? What precise kind of immigration reform? More civil values taught in school? Integration through a common cultural identity? Urban development reforms? What's your plan?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2796

Post by Kirbmarc »

The more I think about politics the more I realize that labels are useful for PR and campaigns, but deep down what really matters are the details of a precise policy.

So I'm starting to take political identification less and less seriously and simply ask people what do they want, how and why, then talk about the results of what they want.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2797

Post by Kirbmarc »

"Who/what are you" is less important than "what exactly do you want"

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2798

Post by Kirbmarc »

"Who/what are you" is less important than "what exactly do you want"

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2799

Post by Keating »

I want Kirbmarc to specify his political identification.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2800

Post by MarcusAu »

Shatterface wrote: For the record, I don't think questioning the Holocaust should be a criminal offence. Prison is the wrong kind of institution for people who are suffering a mental illness.
They should be marched into the countryside and be forced to think very hard on these issues.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2801

Post by MarcusAu »

Although I'm about JP'd out - I thought this rationalisation to allow the Islington class to come to terms with how the Kathy Newman interview went - was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyggRvJUOxQ

Complete bollocks but interesting.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2802

Post by MarcusAu »

And a belated Happy Australia Day from Douglas Murray


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2803

Post by feathers »

Kirbmarc, I fixed your avatar a bit so you can sell it to Carrier as a coat of arms:

https://i.imgur.com/sqrzKcH.png

It also rhymes better.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2804

Post by Brive1987 »

I'm no einstein so the exact way to build the watch may elude me. But what do I want?

Simple. I want to limit the globalistic flattening of cultural uniqueness that will result in either a world of silos or homogeneity. My prefered world is a high street of specialty stores, each unique. Some amazing. Some not so much. But each its own concern. Not a jumble defined by two dollar shops.

France has enough quirks without half of Africa. Italy is best defined by the north south divide. UK by their celtic tribes. China, India, Japan, Canada .... every locale a proud and complex heritage, history and identity.

Australia had a character defined by anglo stock shaped or inspired by our unique landscape. With a garnish of Asia in Chinatown and friendly wogs giving us a touch of Florence and Crete. We had Irish vs English, catholic and CofE, Melbourne toffs, Sydney surfers, Germans in Adelaide, Qld bogans, WA miners. We had a heritage based on opening this place up, beating the poms at everything, sport and military-exploits. The Boxing day test match. BBQ and beer on Australia Day, a march and two-up on ANZAC Day with grousing about how the Poms let us down. Sidney Nolan, Tom Roberts, AC/DC, Banjo Paterson and Judith Wright for some pinko charm. Working in a pub in London before settling down. She'll be right mate.



Now liberal values of multiculturalism and post colonial consciousness / self hatred are destroying this. And we have you wonderful civic nationalists saying let the fucking world in - if they are nominally aligned to some pretty vanilla values. Of course they won't bring a counter culture. What can go wrong?

Now what has to change?

70,000 net annual immigration. English proficiency. Christian or non aligned preference. European preference. Not because white is right but because that's who we are/were. I'd expect nothing less from any other country. Remove the black arm-band school curriculum and teach our history in a proud fashion at primary level. Work on bringing back some manufacturing. Stop the big-population fueled fake growth which brings no rise in individual standards of living. Keep the flag. Keep the monarchy. Celebrate Australia Day in a lazy laconic way. Stop selling every asset we can to the chinese for instant financial hits. Stop turning our prime housing into a ponzi scheme for international profiteers. Stop making our kids tenants for these OS investors. Stop commercialising our universities like they are a whore cos playing as a golden goose. Fucking slow down and smell the sea spray. Re-focus Sydney back to its inhabitants instead of this obsession with being an International city that looks like Blade Runner Mk1.

Generally make the place less like a drunk teenage girl demanding to be screwed by the rest of the world. oh. And invite our new rainbow citizens to fit in or fuck off.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2805

Post by MarcusAu »

Oh for the old days of strict immigration controls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PfDro1UGUo

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2806

Post by Brive1987 »

Happy times.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2807

Post by Brive1987 »

Kirb here is an alt right primer on how they self define.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2808

Post by MarcusAu »

Well, things didn't always go perfectly...


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2809

Post by MarcusAu »

Re the Alt-Right - the equating of race and culture is not something I am sold on.

And is why Vicky comes across as more of a fan of 'classic coke' (see her response to me earlier) and mostly likely does not see the point of the 'new coke' variety. I really don't know what a Libertarian is in the UK or European context either.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2810

Post by VickyCaramel »

Brive1987 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:57 pm
I don’t think she’s listening but if Vicky thinks her simplification of Holocaust Studies is anything but a clumsy troll, well her case would be pretty much closed. Garbage in and out.
I already said I am trolling... on principle.

I am sure I have shared the story so I won't repeat it, but I have dealt with "holocaust historians" before. They are no different to the people who dug up half the holy land looking to prove the bible. I am sure they had degrees in Jewish History from King Solomon's University Jewish Studies too. The difference is that there are actual blasphemy laws in place enforcing this dogma.

Let me remind you that as an Australian you cannot lawfully come to any other conclusion or you will be prosecuted under hate speech laws.
TheMudbrooker wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:14 pm
VickyCaramel wrote:
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence can reasonably be expected. This whole matter could be cleared up by analysing the grounds of the 'extermination camps' and looking for bone and teeth fragments because you jit the nail square on the head with the question, "Where did they go? Find them for us, or fuck off." I would love to find them, but unfortunately archaeological investigation is prohibited. So long as 'we' are not allowed to examine the physical evidence and the law prohibits questioning the orthodox history, I am going to remain obstinately skeptical on principle.
Archeology is prohibited? Better tell these guys.http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=1248
That "International archeological research" [sic] doesn't look very international does it? But I'm sure it's kosher.

The point isn't to let the Israelis investigate the graves we already know about, because it isn't like we don't already know people died. The point is to find the missing dead and test the claims that after cremation, the Germans crushed the bones and teeth and scattered the ashes of millions of Jews.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2811

Post by VickyCaramel »

deLurch wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:53 pm
VickyCaramel wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:00 am
Shatterface wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:08 am
I don't think it's coincidence that the people most likely to question the Holocaust are the first to believe Israelis kill Palestinian kids just for kicks.
I was probably the first to believe this because I used to volunteer for EI, and knew people who witnessed it happen. In fact the journalists would get shot at too. Probably not purely for kicks, no doubt intimidation plays a factor.

I would be interested to know if people who uncritically accept orthodox holocaust history are also the first to believe Palestinians attack school busses?
My understanding on the whole bombing kids thing is that the Palestinians carrying out attacks would use the safety location of the kids as cover assuming the Israelis would not attack back.
Your understanding would come from the IDF. Do the Palestinian terrorists also hide out in the United Nations Monitoring camps too?

The aim is to destroy Palestinian infrastructure in order to make life unbearable, this is why they use white phosphorus, it is to burn it to the ground.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2812

Post by Brive1987 »

I thought by "holocaust historians" you were referencing the crazies. Then I saw you were doing a von Däniken and railing against the evil consensus.

So sure you have luckily bonded with the One True Conspiracy.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2813

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:47 pm
OMG! My wife just left in her Cadillac. It is almost midnight here. I have no idea where she is going. Can you spell D..I...V...O...R...C...E..? and all I have is shitty booze in the house.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2814

Post by Shatterface »

MarcusAu wrote:
Shatterface wrote: For the record, I don't think questioning the Holocaust should be a criminal offence. Prison is the wrong kind of institution for people who are suffering a mental illness.
They should be marched into the countryside and be forced to think very hard on these issues.
Most of them should be sent to their rooms and have a think about their behaviour.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2815

Post by VickyCaramel »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 pm
Brive1987 wrote: There is a school of thought that contends the picture below actually shows German soldiers bravely fighting off partisans or other armed undesirables just off the right side while protecting the civilians in the foreground. The woman and child no doubt placed flowers in their button holes as a token of thanks

Bit of a discussion here.
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/2 ... ivanhorod/



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 6y4F8t95tI
That photo's composition makes no sense. There are signs of retouching. Someone with the appropriate knowledge could identify those rifles and uniforms.

I have a WWII history book from the DDR. It is filled with outrageous montages and retouchings. I expect this is another example.
I completely agree that the composition makes no sense.

I should also say that lots of photos were airbrushed back then, it doesn't indicate fakery in itself.

The uniform and rifle don't help much either because you just get into a probabilities game.

The rifle is the key. It does not fit the profile of any German rifle issued to front line troops. If memory serves it better fits the profile of some Czechoslovakian rifles but i am not confident in a positive identification.

This is where it gets messy. You probably know that German Uniforms were designed by people like Hugo Boss, and that did have the same sort of meaning in the 1930s as it does now. They were extremely fashionable, and as such their style or elements of their style was copied by other armies, police forces, even postmen, especially in Eastern Europe. There are even pictures of Jewish Partisans wearing uniforms almost indistinguishable from Wehrmacht uniforms. That really complicates things because we have a situation where Germany's allies and enemies were wearing such uniforms. You also have a situation where soldier could and would hire tailors to alter or make uniforms, I doubt it happened much on the Eastern Front but soldiers were moved around. Contrary to popular opinion, German soldiers were just as fashion conscious as the Western Allies and just as happy to break regulations, and it was often the officers who were first to do so.

It is also the case that Germans requisitioned foreign weapons and issued them to allies and second line units in times of need. So it is not impossible for a German soldier to be carrying something exotic.

So you start asking, what is the probability that in 1943, a German soldier would be wearing this early style uniform which is rather well kept, and holding a foreign rifle?

I don't think you can say anything with certainty about this photo, but if I were pushed I would "guess" that these aren't germans, but he isn't shooting at the civilians either. I would guess that the left of the photo has been doctored to add in extra rifles to make it look like they are shooting civilians. I think it most likely that this group came under fire and the soldier/partisan/policeman is returning fire... although it is strange that his instinct is not to take cover, nor does his first concern seem to be the civilians.

If he were there to execute civilians, you would think he would use that rifle to take control of the situation before executing them. Shouldering his rifle and taking careful aim to shoot a moving target in the head at point blank range doesn't make much sense.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2816

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Funny article at the Guardian about how lyrics from 10 years ago are now "problematic". Main gripe seems to be Katy Perry's "I Kissed a Girl", which apparently, contains some stereotypes! Imagine that, a song containing stereotypes. The comments below are amusing, as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/music ... ts-disavow

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2817

Post by VickyCaramel »

Brive1987 wrote: I thought by "holocaust historians" you were referencing the crazies. Then I saw you were doing a von Däniken and railing against the evil consensus.

So sure you have luckily bonded with the One True Conspiracy.
Sorry mate but there is no consensus. The majority of historians I know privately question the numbers or refuse to discuss it which i take to mean the same thing.
As I am sure you are aware, there is no money in history, many historians make their money writing books targeting very specific markets, sold through specialist outlets, although the internet and self publishing has helped.
However, to voice their concerns publically could mean prison as you know.... but it also means they would be subject to threats and intimidation by Jewish groups, and abuse by rivals. No university would tolerate it, they couldn't get published, they couldn't risk traveling to parts of Europe and even Australia and Canada, nor could they get access to records and archives.
Shatterface wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:
Shatterface wrote: For the record, I don't think questioning the Holocaust should be a criminal offence. Prison is the wrong kind of institution for people who are suffering a mental illness.
They should be marched into the countryside and be forced to think very hard on these issues.
Most of them should be sent to their rooms and have a think about their behaviour.
You should question everything. History is always political, it is almost always a weapon.
Most history contains bullshit, and most of it is presented in a context which suits the narrator.

Just as you see people putting a different political spin on the same set of facts today..... today's politics is tomorrows history. There are no right answers.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2818

Post by katamari Damassi »

I have nothing to contribute to a discussion about the death camps, but when I was a kid our county fair always had a ride called "The German Fun Haus." I always called it the German Fun Haus and Crematorium.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2819

Post by katamari Damassi »

Good luck John. Keep your head while those around you are losing theirs.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2820

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

gurugeorge wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:44 pm
[a lot of really stupid shit]
I'll get to that presently.

But your response doesn't address my point. Isn't it quite mad - and not a little bit suspicious - that questioning this one historical event should be criminalized?
It should not be criminalized. I am adamantly opposed to that. Nor do I have a problem with a serious reevaluation. (Hey, I get regularly vilified for arguing that Jesus never existed and Shakspere didn't; write Shakespeare.) Nor do I have any vested interest in maintaining the orthodox position.

But what you're doing is not serious historical research. It's denialist sniping, nit-picking at random points and declaring 'this point doesn't seem right to me, ergo the entire thing must be false!' And whenever one of your snipes gets debunked, you either just repeat the snipe as if nothing happened, or gish gallop onto the next snipe. It's fatuous & disingenuous, and no different in substance than creationist's opposition to evolution.

So either stop with the sniping and start providing hard facts & figures as part of a comprehensive alternate theory that encompasses all the evidence, or I'll send you to the cornfield with Vickie.

Locked