Give Me a Urinal or Give Me Death!

[Brive1987]

Pit Question:
Has the refugee situation in Europe, and the Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the US and other countries changed anyone's minds about how Israel handles middle eastern affairs, Palestine & the West Bank? Or have your opinions pretty much stayed the same?

I'm more sympathetic.

That's a combination of imagining how it would be to have a Manchester or Westminster attack every day, and the sickening double standards of SJWs who treat Israel as uniquely evil while ignoring the atrocities committed by Islamist states.

Also, Gal Gadot. Find me a Palestinian who looks half as good in a leather and I might change my mind.

That took far more searching than I have anticipated.

So point taken.

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp69 ... -photo.gif

[feathers]

They stuffed up again in September when they dropped the First Bristish Airborne (parachute) on top of a (stealth?) armoured division. I mean who knew ?

The Dutch Resistance, that's who.

[Brive1987]

In what sense was Russia so much better off in say 1960 than 1930?

It had a geo-buffer, but no enemy to defend against. It had ungrateful and economically shitty vassal states. It was waging a colonial Cold War that brought limited riches or influence. It was locked into a techno arms race it couldn't afford or hope to win.

It faced an ideological enemy that could slag heap it - not much comfort to those old suspicious nerves eh?

Poor return of the 1941-5 investment.

[Kirbmarc]

Pit Question:
Has the refugee situation in Europe, and the Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the US and other countries changed anyone's minds about how Israel handles middle eastern affairs, Palestine & the West Bank? Or have your opinions pretty much stayed the same?

My opinion stayed the same because I've always had the opinion that in absence of a powerful third party which takes complete control of the entire area there's absolutely no solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict which doesn't include genocide/ethnic cleansing on one side or the other. In the best case scenarios either the Jews leave Israel or the Palestinians leave the West Bank (and Gaza goes to Egypt). In the worst case scenarios you have mass graves on one side or the other.

Meanwhile, until one of those four scenarios comes true, it's business as usual: the Israeli keep funding and supporting settlers and fucking things up for the Palestinians, the Palestinians keep trying to get allies and killing Israelis in the settlements and elsewhere.

Also at this point in history the Palestinian Christians are fucked either way, and will probably leave the area one way or the other.

[Kirbmarc]

Most of the Palestianian Christians have already left the area anyway.

[Brive1987]

They stuffed up again in September when they dropped the First Bristish Airborne (parachute) on top of a (stealth?) armoured division. I mean who knew ?

The Dutch Resistance, that's who.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0/Vi ... down32.jpg

[Za-zen]

In what sense was Russia so much better off in say 1960 than 1930?

It had a geo-buffer, but no enemy to defend against. It had ungrateful and economically shitty vassal states. It was waging a colonial Cold War that brought limited riches or influence. It was locked into a techno arms race it couldn't afford or hope to win.

It faced an ideological enemy that could slag heap it - not much comfort to those old suspicious nerves eh?

Poor return of the 1941-5 investment.

I take your point, that taken as a whole, the century of Eurasia conflict that was the twentieth was ultimately and wholly won by the US, as the USSR utterly failed to turn it's victory into a position of successful global domination. None the less it's victory mid century did position it to do so, it just ultimately failed.

[Clarence]

The war was lost long before DDay for the Reich. Western centric thought scripted the narrative that the yanks/Brits were the ones that one it, which is absolute horseshit. The Reds destroyed the Reich army, the western forces came in to do the mopping up, and stop the Soviet union marching the whole way through and occupying france. It is absolute fact the westerners landing in france hastened the demise, but it was coming anyway.

It is also a western narrative rewrite that Stalin was the cause of the cold war, seeing as the benevolent westerners wanted to be all friendly. Stalin unsurprisingly distrusted/resented the yanks/brits for sitting the war out on the sidelines/poking around the edges as the red army was engaged in titanic engagements with it's homeland laying in such devastation that it made the blitz look like a fireworks accident. Stalin correctly surmised the west were not his allies, and had infact sat it out hoping for the mutual destruction of the two great powers.

Look at the statistics, from troop dispositions to casualties. The second world war, was fought and won by Russia. What is phenomenal is just how well the Reich did in the context of all that was arrayed against it. The German military was without doubt superior to anything the world had ever seen. There is other such narrative nonsense about how Russia surpassed Germany in that regard evidenced by the defeat at Kursk. The turning point where russian tech matched German engineering. The actual stats for that battle are staggering. They just didn't have enough Panzers. And couldn't knock out the red tanks fast enough. And they leveled whole Divisions of Russian armor. It was garbage compared to the reichs, the russians just had shitloads of it, and won by volume of blood sacrificed.

I can very easily argue it was the US that won it for the allies, and that furthermore without those American trucks and other American supplies Russia collapses:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

Take a gander at that. And then realize the US was funneling war material to Britain and Russia and mostly focused the scope and type of its land forces for Europe.

However, even WITH the US supporting Russia, I think Germany could have won If Hitler had worked with the Ukranians and other victims of Stalins terror rather than against them. Luckily for Stalin, Hitler saw everyone on Russian soil as inferiors to be destroyed or enslaved. I suppose the other thing Hitler could have done (besides not invade Russia in the first place) would have been to max Germany's production in 1941 instead of 1944 when it was too late. Hitler was partly operating his war on equipment taken from already conquered countries and didn't treat it like a life or death affair economically until later in the war.

You could very easily argue that, the same way someone could very easily argue that there's people on mars. But it's still horseshit. IT WAS FORD THAT WON IT! Dumbassery. The facts point to US material into Russia being of negligible consequence. The flow of material into the UK was of consequence, but that didn't win the war. It kept the UK in the game no doubt. But since my point is the fact that the Russians won it, the point is moot.

The US did what had made the US a global power during the 14-18 opening act of the two part play. Capitalize on collective European insanity to make itself stinking fucking rich, and jump in to ensure that those who owed it money, still existed to pay back that debt. The pacific theatre is another story entirely, but that's because it's almost entirely a different war. The British Empire ended in 1918, because it sold itself to the US.

Being of negligible consequence?
https://www.rbth.com/business/2015/05/0 ... 45879.html

Yeah, how long would it have taken and with what materials would Russia have produced those 400 thousand trucks? What about the aviation fuel?
Armies are logistical monsters and they require supplies.

So much for your knowledge of World War 2.

[Kirbmarc]

In what sense was Russia so much better off in say 1960 than 1930?

It had a geo-buffer, but no enemy to defend against. It had ungrateful and economically shitty vassal states. It was waging a colonial Cold War that brought limited riches or influence. It was locked into a techno arms race it couldn't afford or hope to win.

It faced an ideological enemy that could slag heap it - not much comfort to those old suspicious nerves eh?

Poor return of the 1941-5 investment.

I take your point, that taken as a whole, the century of Eurasia conflict that was the twentieth was ultimately and wholly won by the US, as the USSR utterly failed to turn it's victory into a position of successful global domination. None the less it's victory mid century did position it to do so, it just ultimately failed.

Thankfully so.

Both the US and the USSR were empires, and as empires both fucked over their satellite/client states whenever convenient, but the US were ultimately the lesser evil. The problem is that the Yanks have over-reached and blundered into chaotic unwinnable wars after CommieLand failed.

[paddybrown]

Pit Question:
Has the refugee situation in Europe, and the Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the US and other countries changed anyone's minds about how Israel handles middle eastern affairs, Palestine & the West Bank? Or have your opinions pretty much stayed the same?

My basic position - that when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza, if they'd offered some kind of rights of citizenship to the people living there we might not be in the situation we are now, but they didn't and they're reaping the results of that now - is much the same. But my thoughts on what can be done about it have become rather more despairing. I don't think you can make any kind of compromise with radical Islamists, because they're fanatics and can't compromise what they believe is the will of God. And you can't subdue them by force, because international opinion will never stand for that. So Gaza will continue to be a massive open-air prison, the people living there will continue to be angry and have no-one to turn to but the Islamists, and if Israel relaxes security even slightly then terrorist attacks will follow. The West Bank is rather more civilised so may be soluble with goodwill on both sides. I don't think Gaza is at this point. It's a cage full of mad dogs, and I don't see how they can be let out without massive bloodshed, even though it was being put in the cage that drove them mad in the first place.

[Sulman]

Forgot to add, Hilter always held Panzer divisions in reserve, but the idea was idiotic for something like DDay where everything depended on pinning the Allies on the beacheads and not letting them off of it. The Allied planners were praying for the Panzer divisions to be held in reserve and Hitler answered their prayers.

They were hoping to be off the beaches much quicker than they were. That the American landings were badly delayed was the factor that put them in jeopardy from the Panzer division that was delayed by Hitler's staff and then Hitler himself.

[Clarence]

In what sense was Russia so much better off in say 1960 than 1930?

It had a geo-buffer, but no enemy to defend against. It had ungrateful and economically shitty vassal states. It was waging a colonial Cold War that brought limited riches or influence. It was locked into a techno arms race it couldn't afford or hope to win.

It faced an ideological enemy that could slag heap it - not much comfort to those old suspicious nerves eh?

Poor return of the 1941-5 investment.

I take your point, that taken as a whole, the century of Eurasia conflict that was the twentieth was ultimately and wholly won by the US, as the USSR utterly failed to turn it's victory into a position of successful global domination. None the less it's victory mid century did position it to do so, it just ultimately failed.

Thankfully so.

Both the US and the USSR were empires, and as empires both fucked over their satellite/client states whenever convenient, but the US were ultimately the lesser evil. The problem is that the Yanks have over-reached and blundered into chaotic unwinnable wars after CommieLand failed.

Full agreement.

[franc]

http://i.imgur.com/kU4ov2T.jpg

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Too much German speak going on here. Ah well, that's the Pit for you.

Ich nichten lichten...but I'll have to go along with it.

Ich nicht lichen?

[youtube][/youtube]

[Billie from Ockham]

Anyway, it's June 18th today - which makes it Autistic Pride day!

https://www.awarenessdays.com/wp-conten ... y_Logo.jpg

A true autistic would point out that a good "rainbow" loop maintains a specific distance from center (radius) while making one circuit in CIE color-space and, therefore, object to the shift in brightness and saturation required to get that dark-blue section in the front. That's the main problem that I have with adding anything at either end of the original size colors, especially a non-pure (or non-contiguous) color like brown.

[John D]

Pit Question:
Has the refugee situation in Europe, and the Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the US and other countries changed anyone's minds about how Israel handles middle eastern affairs, Palestine & the West Bank? Or have your opinions pretty much stayed the same?

As recent as 5 years ago I was pretty much anti-Israel. For various reasons I have changed my mind. I used to think that a two state solution would work. I have changed my mind. I think that the only solution is one Israeli state that includes the occupied territory. Palestinians will become full Israeli citizens. Israel will have centuries of low level conflict ahead with ethnic groups among its own citizens.

Reasons:

1) Other Muslim nations hate the Palestinians and only use them as a tool to fuck with Christian countries.
2) Palestine is not a viable independent state. Its citizen will be ignorant unproductive fools.
3) Palestinians will never accept a two state solution because their goal is destruction of the Jews rather than a happy family life.
4) Jewish settlements are going to cover the entire country except for the current Palestinian area of the West back and Gaza. Israel has no land to offer the Palestinians.
5) Most Muslims are barbarians.

[Billie from Ockham]

If black homosexuals face additional discrimination for being black then homosexual blacks face additional discrimination for being homosexual. The maths isn't difficult.

So when do black lives matter get intersectional?

You're coming close to the only definition of "intersectional" that ever made sense to me: the idea that the factors that contribute to the perceived role or value of a person in society are not additive, but exhibit statistical interactions.

The maths may be simple (e.g., +5 plus +2 can be more than +7), but I worry that they remain beyond the abilities of those who believe in the concept.

[CommanderTuvok]

32 degrees. Blue skies. Here in England.

It's TOO FUCKING HOT. Insects flying a-fucking round and everything.

There's more sweat than under PZ's man-boobs.

PS - Did you Pitters know that PZ likes to use his "boob sweat" for extra lubrication for "the tentacles."

[Shatterface]

If black homosexuals face additional discrimination for being black then homosexual blacks face additional discrimination for being homosexual. The maths isn't difficult.

So when do black lives matter get intersectional?

You're coming close to the only definition of "intersectional" that ever made sense to me: the idea that the factors that contribute to the perceived role or value of a person in society are not additive, but exhibit statistical interactions.

The maths may be simple (e.g., +5 plus +2 can be more than +7), but I worry that they remain beyond the abilities of those who believe in the concept.

Where intersectionality breaks down is that where being black and gay may multiply the prejudice a gay black person might face from straight white people it ignores the fact that prejudice against homosexuals is higher among black people, so a gay black person might face quantatively more prejudice from a straight black person than a straight white person.

Likewise a black woman might face more misogyny from a black man than the misogyny + racism they might experience from a white man.

[Shatterface]

I think intersectionality can be understood as something like non-transitive dice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice

There might be certain situations, like at university, where non-transitive 'privilege' and 'oppression' come into play. For instance Grouo A has a higher IQ than Groups B, Group B has the advantage over Groups C by dint of being over-represented in faculty staff, and Group C has advantage over A by being favoured by affirmative action policies, however Group A need not be smarter than C, etc.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Forgot to add, Hilter always held Panzer divisions in reserve, but the idea was idiotic for something like DDay where everything depended on pinning the Allies on the beacheads and not letting them off of it. The Allied planners were praying for the Panzer divisions to be held in reserve and Hitler answered their prayers.

The war was lost long before DDay for the Reich. Western centric thought scripted the narrative that the yanks/Brits were the ones that one it, which is absolute horseshit. The Reds destroyed the Reich army, the western forces came in to do the mopping up, and stop the Soviet union marching the whole way through and occupying france. It is absolute fact the westerners landing in france hastened the demise, but it was coming anyway.

It is also a western narrative rewrite that Stalin was the cause of the cold war, seeing as the benevolent westerners wanted to be all friendly. Stalin unsurprisingly distrusted/resented the yanks/brits for sitting the war out on the sidelines/poking around the edges as the red army was engaged in titanic engagements with it's homeland laying in such devastation that it made the blitz look like a fireworks accident. Stalin correctly surmised the west were not his allies, and had infact sat it out hoping for the mutual destruction of the two great powers.

Look at the statistics, from troop dispositions to casualties. The second world war, was fought and won by Russia. What is phenomenal is just how well the Reich did in the context of all that was arrayed against it. The German military was without doubt superior to anything the world had ever seen. There is other such narrative nonsense about how Russia surpassed Germany in that regard evidenced by the defeat at Kursk. The turning point where russian tech matched German engineering. The actual stats for that battle are staggering. They just didn't have enough Panzers. And couldn't knock out the red tanks fast enough. And they leveled whole Divisions of Russian armor. It was garbage compared to the reichs, the russians just had shitloads of it, and won by volume of blood sacrificed.

Despite being outnumbered (and sans air power) the Germans inflicted 3.5-4x tanks losses on the Allies in Normandy.

The Russians have a hide thinking the West owed them anything after Poland. I think the Allies played their cards well not getting stampeded by Stalin into a European invasion in 1943.

The Great Patriotic War was a case study in effective delegation. Bravo Churchill.

To put it bluntly, Russia was toast without the Allies. How well would Russia have fared with an unfettered Japan on the one side and Germany unopposed in the Med? It really was a global war fought over control of bases of operation and supply routes. Russian troops did most of the donkey work, but on a global strategic scale the Western Allies ran the war. Stalin was a barbarous cunt whose paranoia made him ignore valid warnings given to him about Germany's intentions by the British. Alan Brooke and Churchill had his number, unlike Roosevelt. They knew Stalin was lying when he assured them that the back door to Russia was defended because they observed the opposite from the air when flying in to meet him. An attack from 'behind' would have finished Russia, never mind German access to oil in the Middle East. Churchill understandably wanted to push through Italy to head of the Russians, but was overruled.

Stalin did to the Poles in 39/40 what he later did to the rest of Eastern Europe. If he hadn't didn't found the Western powers threatening then I'd demand to know why the fuck not. Perhaps they should have made nice with him and let him have his way. What do I know. The Soviets were an an extant totalitarian threat and the West reacted accordingly. Naughty West. The West's myopic post-war blunderings do not detract from the cause of the Cold War, which was a murderous totalitarian ideology.

[Kirbmarc]

Pit Question:
Has the refugee situation in Europe, and the Islamic inspired terrorist attacks in the US and other countries changed anyone's minds about how Israel handles middle eastern affairs, Palestine & the West Bank? Or have your opinions pretty much stayed the same?

As recent as 5 years ago I was pretty much anti-Israel. For various reasons I have changed my mind. I used to think that a two state solution would work. I have changed my mind. I think that the only solution is one Israeli state that includes the occupied territory. Palestinians will become full Israeli citizens. Israel will have centuries of low level conflict ahead with ethnic groups among its own citizens.

[/quote]

To put it bluntly, that's never going to happen. The Jews don't want to become a minority religion in Israel. They're already struggling with the demographic rise of the Israeli Muslims.

1) Other Muslim nations hate the Palestinians and only use them as a tool to fuck with Christian countries.

And to fuck between themselves. Currently Iran is helping Hamas and Hezbollah, and the Saudi-sponsored Salafi militias (and, before the Big Rift, the Qatari sponsored ones) are fighting against them.

If Israel was no longer around, however, Hamas and Hezbollah would gladly try to exterminate one another.

2) Palestine is not a viable independent state. Its citizen will be ignorant unproductive fools.

Palestine could have been a viable independent state back when it was a multi-religious, quasi-secular entity. Now the Christians are leaving and in a fully sovereign Palestine the muslim militias would be at each other's throats. Things are getting worse.

The Palestinian intellectual elite has more or less left the area, leaving behind only people with less education and less perspectives. Religious monopoly on education and the media doesn't help.

3) Palestinians will never accept a two state solution because their goal is destruction of the Jews rather than a happy family life.

The two state solution isn't viable because both sides want to be in charge of the same land. Israeli aren't willing to put up with a muslim majority state in between of their settlement, either, and the demographic trends favor the muslims.

4) Jewish settlements are going to cover the entire country except for the current Palestinian area of the West back and Gaza. Israel has no land to offer the Palestinians.

The Israelis aren't going to give back anything of anything they've taken, not now that Hamas and Hezbollah are busy fighting in Syria. I think that Israel wants the war in Syria to go on, without anyone winning, just to keep all the muslim militias occupied.

5) Most Muslims are barbarians.

Islam is barbaric. Muslims are simply people who live in a society shaped by a barbaric religion.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm on #TeamIsrael. Have been for decades, too.

[youtube][/youtube]

[John D]

To put it bluntly, that's never going to happen. The Jews don't want to become a minority religion in Israel. They're already struggling with the demographic rise of the Israeli Muslims.

You are much smarter than I am about this Kirb.... What do you think the next 50 years look like in Israel. Just 50 years of "more of the same"? Maybe.

[shoutinghorse]

Forgot to add, Hilter always held Panzer divisions in reserve, but the idea was idiotic for something like DDay where everything depended on pinning the Allies on the beacheads and not letting them off of it. The Allied planners were praying for the Panzer divisions to be held in reserve and Hitler answered their prayers.

The war was lost long before DDay for the Reich. Western centric thought scripted the narrative that the yanks/Brits were the ones that one it, which is absolute horseshit. The Reds destroyed the Reich army, the western forces came in to do the mopping up, and stop the Soviet union marching the whole way through and occupying france. It is absolute fact the westerners landing in france hastened the demise, but it was coming anyway.

It is also a western narrative rewrite that Stalin was the cause of the cold war, seeing as the benevolent westerners wanted to be all friendly. Stalin unsurprisingly distrusted/resented the yanks/brits for sitting the war out on the sidelines/poking around the edges as the red army was engaged in titanic engagements with it's homeland laying in such devastation that it made the blitz look like a fireworks accident. Stalin correctly surmised the west were not his allies, and had infact sat it out hoping for the mutual destruction of the two great powers.

Look at the statistics, from troop dispositions to casualties. The second world war, was fought and won by Russia. What is phenomenal is just how well the Reich did in the context of all that was arrayed against it. The German military was without doubt superior to anything the world had ever seen. There is other such narrative nonsense about how Russia surpassed Germany in that regard evidenced by the defeat at Kursk. The turning point where russian tech matched German engineering. The actual stats for that battle are staggering. They just didn't have enough Panzers. And couldn't knock out the red tanks fast enough. And they leveled whole Divisions of Russian armor. It was garbage compared to the reichs, the russians just had shitloads of it, and won by volume of blood sacrificed.

Russia indeed paid a terrible price in lives lost and ruined during WW2 but to say they won the war is laughable, the only way Stalin could fight back was with allied supplies delivered by the British in the Arctic convoys.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I watched a doco last night that claimed the allies never bombed the Wolfs Lair because they wanted to keep Hitler alive as their best tool to help win the war.

I turned it off.

I wonder where the turn around point was for British based B17 / Lancasters? Though I recall they couldn't get to Warsaw and back when it mattered in 'black '44".

Bomber Command attacked targets in East Prussia, but their tactics involved setting city centers on fire, not pinpoint strikes on huts in the woods. A damn-buster type raid might have been considered, but was likely impractical.

The Amis were getting their asses kicked whenever they ventured deep into German airspace, and for the first half of '44, were concentrating on prepping for OVERLORD and hitting V-sites. They tried one of two shuttle raids to Russia, (Marienberg target?) but the Soviets treated their crews as PoWs after landing, so end of that.

In any case, they'd never know when Hitler was at the Wolf's Lair. They took out Yamamoto only because they had solid intel.

Ignorant lay enthusiasts always imagine it's so easy to make things happen with military technology and forget the logistics, planning, diplomatic repercussions, chance, etc.


OTOH, FDR for one was never going to negotiate with a military coup, as he'd gotten stuck in his head this fantasy of a "Prussian Elite" responsible for everything bad ever, that needed to be excised from German consciousness like a tumor. (He was likely projecting from his own patrician upbringing on the Hudson.) The reckless Casablanca "unconditional surrender" decree would still have been in force following a successful coup, so why bother taking out Hitler for them?

[Kirbmarc]

To put it bluntly, that's never going to happen. The Jews don't want to become a minority religion in Israel. They're already struggling with the demographic rise of the Israeli Muslims.

You are much smarter than I am about this Kirb.... What do you think the next 50 years look like in Israel. Just 50 years of "more of the same"? Maybe.

I didn't mean to sound like a smartass. Just pointing out that most political leaders assume that demography is destiny and plan accordingly :bjarte:

I think that the Israeli will try to keep a Jewish majority in Israel, probably by trying to attract more Jews from places like France, Germany or even the US, admitting in Eastern Europeans (mostly Russians and Ukrainians) of vaguely Jewish ancestry, trying to get the Jews which live in Argentina or Brazil to come in as well, etc. , as well as trying to get their Jewish population to have more children (they'll likely have more success with the ultra-orthodox, which opens up new cans of worms).

They'll also try to divide the muslim militias, likely by siding even more with the Saudis and Team Saudis against Iran and Team Iran. They'll try to prolong the Syrian civil war for a few more years, to keep Hamas and Hezbollah bogged down.

Meanwhile the Palestinians will try to get the Israeli muslims on their side (which won't be too hard if the Ultra-Orthodox Jews will become more and more important in Israel) and to make tactical alliances with various leftist movements in the "west" and with Iran and Team Iran in general (which from now on may include Qatar).

The situation will stay the same as now...for a while. Then the Jews will likely become a minority in Israel, with the exceptions of Ultra-Orthodox settlements. When this happens we'll either have a Palestinians ethnic cleansing/genocide or a Jewish ethnic cleansing/genocide. Which one will happen depends on how much international support either side will have.

If the US go isolationists and the EU is too busy dealing with its own issues (including a rapidly growing muslim population) and/or unsympathetic to Israel due to leftist governments, and the Saudis fall while Turkey goes Team Iran, then in the long run the Israelis are toast.

If, on the other hand, the US and the EU decide that enough is enough and they've had it with all muslim militias then Israel might enjoy more support and force the Palestinians to all leave. Of course there's also Russia. The Russians have close ties to Iran and would probably react badly to a Western-approved Palestinian ethnic cleansing/"population transfer" (to borrow a Steersman-ism).

There are, of course, a few (less likely) "third options". The EU might decide to make a deal with Team Iran to get rid of the Salafis on their soil and smash the Saudis, and in exchange both could agree not to bother too much with Israel. Israel might succeed in creating an alliance with the Europeans, Americans and even to appease the Russians, ditch the Saudis and get everyone's focus on curbing all islamic militas. Both scenarios require a massive change in foreign policies, though, so they're not so probable.

In the end the whole situation in the Middle East is explosive. There are far too many triggers that might lead the world to World War Three.

[Billie from Ockham]

I think intersectionality can be understood as something like non-transitive dice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice

There might be certain situations, like at university, where non-transitive 'privilege' and 'oppression' come into play. For instance Grouo A has a higher IQ than Groups B, Group B has the advantage over Groups C by dint of being over-represented in faculty staff, and Group C has advantage over A by being favoured by affirmative action policies, however Group A need not be smarter than C, etc.

It's EXACTLY like nontransitive dice with one added point: the cis white male must always choose his die first.

But it could be worse. Rather than using the best-known example of nontransitive dice, for which the odds are 5 to 4 in favor of the person who chooses second, they could insist that the game be scissors-rock-paper, instead.

[katamari Damassi]

To put it bluntly, that's never going to happen. The Jews don't want to become a minority religion in Israel. They're already struggling with the demographic rise of the Israeli Muslims.

1) Other Muslim nations hate the Palestinians and only use them as a tool to fuck with Christian countries.

And to fuck between themselves. Currently Iran is helping Hamas and Hezbollah, and the Saudi-sponsored Salafi militias (and, before the Big Rift, the Qatari sponsored ones) are fighting against them.

If Israel was no longer around, however, Hamas and Hezbollah would gladly try to exterminate one another.

2) Palestine is not a viable independent state. Its citizen will be ignorant unproductive fools.

Palestine could have been a viable independent state back when it was a multi-religious, quasi-secular entity. Now the Christians are leaving and in a fully sovereign Palestine the muslim militias would be at each other's throats. Things are getting worse.

The Palestinian intellectual elite has more or less left the area, leaving behind only people with less education and less perspectives. Religious monopoly on education and the media doesn't help.

3) Palestinians will never accept a two state solution because their goal is destruction of the Jews rather than a happy family life.

The two state solution isn't viable because both sides want to be in charge of the same land. Israeli aren't willing to put up with a muslim majority state in between of their settlement, either, and the demographic trends favor the muslims.

4) Jewish settlements are going to cover the entire country except for the current Palestinian area of the West back and Gaza. Israel has no land to offer the Palestinians.

The Israelis aren't going to give back anything of anything they've taken, not now that Hamas and Hezbollah are busy fighting in Syria. I think that Israel wants the war in Syria to go on, without anyone winning, just to keep all the muslim militias occupied.

5) Most Muslims are barbarians.

Islam is barbaric. Muslims are simply people who live in a society shaped by a barbaric religion.

I believe that Israel helped instigate the second Iraq war. A lot of the intel used to justify it likely came from Israel. NYT reporter Judith Miller had unique access to the Israeli government-how many reporters get to sit in on prisoner interrogations in Israel?-and really pushed the weapons of mass destruction narrative. The Israeli lobby in the US has also been pushing for a military confrontation with Iran for the last 15 years. They're basically getting us to do their dirty work.

[Billie from Ockham]

I believe that Israel helped instigate the second Iraq war. {snip}

If so, it was one of their less-intelligent moves, given Iran's increased influence inside Iraq.

[Ape+lust]

Where intersectionality breaks down is that where being black and gay may multiply the prejudice a gay black person might face from straight white people it ignores the fact that prejudice against homosexuals is higher among black people, so a gay black person might face quantatively more prejudice from a straight black person than a straight white person.

I think that's why Gazi Kodzo is always hooting and gibbering like an off-the-leash Chris Tucker. If he dialed his antics down, his own beloved race will "notice" he's gay and treat him like he wants whites treated. It'd be a sad day for a black gay boy.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

The original flag had eight colors that represented sex, life, healing, sunlight, nature, art, harmony and spirit. Eventually pink and turquoise were eliminated for practical reasons, leaving red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple.

See? That's how Genocide starts.
First they removed us pink skinned along with the turquoise skinned....

Oh don't get me started.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... npzSLdzFHw

I'm at war with my lecturer who nixed my proposed esssay question:

That "genocide" is a failed construct with limited (or negative) utility for RL preventative action".

Bitch.

Ha. I was just told by one of the usual SJW suspects that labeling all your opponents "bigots" could never lead to calling them "cockroaches".

[Kirbmarc]

From the cesspit of lies:

The religious affiliation of Israeli Jews varies widely: a social survey indicates that 49% self-identify as Hiloni (secular), 29% as Masorti (traditional), 13% as Dati (Orthodox) and 9% as Haredi (ultra-Orthodox).[297] Haredi Jews are expected to represent more than 20% of Israel's Jewish population by 2028.[298]

See, that's bad. Really bad. The Haredi are as insanely attached to their religious as all other ultra-religious people.

Also from here:

Writer Amoz Oz expressed his concern recently that if we fail to reach a compromise with the Palestinians very soon, a different state will be established here some time from now, and it won't be a binational state but an Arab state. Oz is right, and there is room for concern. Minorities in the modern Middle East are not having an easy time, and there is a reasonable chance that we, the Jews, will become a persecuted minority too.

This is a real concern. Ignore the rest of the article, it's clearly heavily biased towards a mythical message of "islam as the religion of peace". Especially this passage:

But could the Arab state actually be a good place to live in? There is a chance that once the turbid wave of radical Muslim nationality is over, we will be able to experience again – under Arab rule – a golden age like Muslim Andalusia in the Middle Ages or the Ottoman Empire under Suleiman the Magnificent.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nope!

[Kirbmarc]

I believe that Israel helped instigate the second Iraq war. A lot of the intel used to justify it likely came from Israel. NYT reporter Judith Miller had unique access to the Israeli government-how many reporters get to sit in on prisoner interrogations in Israel?-and really pushed the weapons of mass destruction narrative. The Israeli lobby in the US has also been pushing for a military confrontation with Iran for the last 15 years. They're basically getting us to do their dirty work.

That's more or less correct. Also, the war in Syria has been exploited by Israel to bog down Hamas and Hezbollah and get rid of Assad, who was sympathetic to both groups. The US and the "west" have, to support Israel, allied themselves with Salafi groups supported by the Saudis and the other GCC countries. Wars make for strange bedfellows :bjarte:

Don't be mistaken, though, the "other side" is just as bad. There are no "good guys" in the Middle East, hell there are no "good guys" in geopolitics, period. There's only different degrees of evil.

The "west" should mediate, not support either side, and promote law and order, not try to mess things up. Also focus on keeping "our" countries democratic, on defending liberal democratic principles, on promoting secularism in "our" countries, without dreaming of "spreading democracy" in places where there are no structures for liberal democracy. Allow in dissenters, atheists, gays from those countries, and keep the very religious and poorly educated out.

Instead "we" are bogged down in byzantine alliances with the same countries who want to run small muslim theocracies in "our" countries. "We" give them weapons, political and military support, all in exchange of the petrodollar and investments.

Most people in the "west" are useful idiots for one side or the other. Most "western" leaders are crony capitalists willing to sell out everything to the highest bidder. Still it's better than elsewhere, where people are simply puppets of regimes which barely even pretend to care about them. "We" at least still have liberal democratic rights and "we" can vote the bums out of office....for now.

[free thoughtpolice]

Where intersectionality breaks down is that where being black and gay may multiply the prejudice a gay black person might face from straight white people it ignores the fact that prejudice against homosexuals is higher among black people, so a gay black person might face quantatively more prejudice from a straight black person than a straight white person.

I think that's why Gazi Kodzo is always hooting and gibbering like an off-the-leash Chris Tucker. If he dialed his antics down, his own beloved race will "notice" he's gay and treat him like he wants whites treated. It'd be a sad day for a black gay boy.

Gazi is not gay.
[youtube][/youtube]

[Billie from Ockham]

Gazi is not gay.
[youtube][/youtube]

As someone who thought that Fifth Element could have been a really good movie, I found the above to be triggering.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

the Fifth Element was an excellent movie, and it would have been diminished if not for Ruby Rhod.

There, I said it!

[Kirbmarc]

I believe that Israel helped instigate the second Iraq war. {snip}

If so, it was one of their less-intelligent moves, given Iran's increased influence inside Iraq.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq was a supremely STUPID move for everyone, Israelis, 'Muricans, dirty Yoorpeans, even most Middle Eastern regimes (even Iran now has to deal with its backlash in the form of the Salafi militias).

It was a thoroughly retarded war, based on blatant lies, extremely poor planning, virulent delusions, and overall barrels of stupidity. The NeoCons are complete morons.

Everyone and their dog was telling them not to do it, but they did it anyway. Well at least Dick Cheney could get his Halliburton guys some jobs!

Among the negative consequences of the 2003 invasion:

-strained relationships between the US and its European allies (especially Germany and France)

-record low levels of popularity for the US in general

-paving the way to Shia-Sunni conflict, including more influence of Iran. the birth of ISIS, countless Salafi militias

-loss of credibility of the US as the "World Cop" and the death knell of the "Pax Americana"

-growth of islamic terrorist groups

-the beginning of the idiotic doctrine of removal of all leaders hostile to the US in the Middle East, which has lead to further disasters in Libya and Syria.

Incidentally it was a fucking illegal war, according to the UN Charter:

The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that: "From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal."

In a perfect world Dubya, Cheney and their toady Tony Blair should have been hauled to the Hague for war crimes, although Bush could have been excuse on the ground of diminished capacity. Incidentally the fact that the US could invade a country and get away with it was what the Russkies used an excuse to invade Ukraine.

So overall a fuck up for everyone involved, and a source of countless problems for the world.

[BoxNDox]

My 10 month Border Terrier pup, went out in the garden for his early morning shit the other day, I sat down with a cuppa a checked the pit, dog comes in, milling around and I get a whiff of poo, it came and went and I couldn't work out why. Turned out that a mini turd had got stuck on a piece of fabric from one of his toys and was hanging out his arse, I had to grab some toilet roll, and pull it out and chuck it down the loo. Then I had to clear up the spot on the carpet where he sat down and left a mark. Just what you need before breakfast! So, it could be something like that, a bit more of a problem with a fluffy dog like hers, or Brives' little snowball for that matter! :animals-dogrun:

You never have problems like this with big dogs.

I've had it happen with a 200+ pound Great Dane, so...

[Easy J]

The Kennedy assassination came up & I happened to be working in Dallas, so I swung by & grabbed a few pictures.

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Some conspiritard defaced this marker

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...

[Easy J]

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From across the street on the grassy area

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[Jan Steen]

I tried, twice, to comment on this thread in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/discussion/p/6jt8g

It's a piece by Rebecca Solnit, of 'mansplaining' fame, on how to deal the "final blow" to Trump. I wrote a comment, saying that SJWs like Solnit created the political climate than enabled Trump to float to the top. And that it is perhaps not such a good idea to give these SJWs a platform when you hope to get rid of Trump.

My first comment disappeared without a trace. Normally, when you post something there that is not approved by the moderators, your name will still be visible, but your comment will be replaced by a statement from the moderators. OK, I thought, maybe it was just a glitch. So I posted a similar comment again. This disappeared too when I refreshed the page, as if sucked into a black hole. And now I cannot even comment on that thread anymore. Somehow I have been blocked. Curiously, I can still comment under other posts, so there is nothing wrong with my computer, or whatever.

What is going on here? If you look through the comments on that thread, you will see many Trump supporters supporting Trump. But my comments were deemed so far out of line that they needed to be erased, not just delated, but memory-holed, as if they had never existed.

Was it perhaps because I hit a nerve? Was it because it is undeniably true that toxic people like Rebecca Solnit are not working against Trump when they write against him, but act in his favour whenever they open their demented, regressive mouths?

If we want to get rid of Trump, the fucking SJW loons, who are his counterpart on the far Left, should be kept away from the microphone. They are just enabling the orange imbecile.

[Easy J]

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[Kirbmarc]

I tried, twice, to comment on this thread in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/discussion/p/6jt8g

It's a piece by Rebecca Solnit, of 'mansplaining' fame, on how to deal the "final blow" to Trump. I wrote a comment, saying that SJWs like Solnit created the political climate than enabled Trump to float to the top. And that it is perhaps not such a good idea to give these SJWs a platform when you hope to get rid of Trump.

My first comment disappeared without a trace. Normally, when you post something there that is not approved by the moderators, your name will still be visible, but your comment will be replaced by a statement from the moderators. OK, I thought, maybe it was just a glitch. So I posted a similar comment again. This disappeared too when I refreshed the page, as if sucked into a black hole. And now I cannot even comment on that thread anymore. Somehow I have been blocked. Curiously, I can still comment under other posts, so there is nothing wrong with my computer, or whatever.

What is going on here? If you look through the comments on that thread, you will see many Trump supporters supporting Trump. But my comments were deemed so far out of line that they needed to be erased, not just delated, but memory-holed, as if they had never existed.

Was it perhaps because I hit a nerve? Was it because it is undeniably true that toxic people like Rebecca Solnit are not working against Trump when they write against him, but act in his favour whenever they open their demented, regressive mouths?

If we want to get rid of Trump, the fucking SJW loons, who are his counterpart on the far Left, should be kept away from the microphone. They are just enabling the orange imbecile.

Your mistake was to consider the Guardian a place for honest discussion and criticism. The Guardian published an article which indirectly blamed German women for being flashy about their smartphones and freedom and attracting the attention of poor, oppressed muslim migrants. I stopped giving the Guardian any credit after that article.

You're right, Trump is a moron but he could only win because the left is infested with other morons. However you can't convince those people that what they're doing is wrong. They're too dogmatically convinced that they're right. Their livelihoods depend on squawking about inconsequential bullshit or agitating people for their scare campaigns. They're in heaven now, since Trump makes them look like they might have a point. Not only they're enabling Trump, Trump is enabling them.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

I tried, twice, to comment on this thread in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/discussion/p/6jt8g

It's a piece by Rebecca Solnit, of 'mansplaining' fame, on how to deal the "final blow" to Trump. I wrote a comment, saying that SJWs like Solnit created the political climate than enabled Trump to float to the top. And that it is perhaps not such a good idea to give these SJWs a platform when you hope to get rid of Trump.

My first comment disappeared without a trace. Normally, when you post something there that is not approved by the moderators, your name will still be visible, but your comment will be replaced by a statement from the moderators. OK, I thought, maybe it was just a glitch. So I posted a similar comment again. This disappeared too when I refreshed the page, as if sucked into a black hole. And now I cannot even comment on that thread anymore. Somehow I have been blocked. Curiously, I can still comment under other posts, so there is nothing wrong with my computer, or whatever.

What is going on here? If you look through the comments on that thread, you will see many Trump supporters supporting Trump. But my comments were deemed so far out of line that they needed to be erased, not just delated, but memory-holed, as if they had never existed.

Was it perhaps because I hit a nerve? Was it because it is undeniably true that toxic people like Rebecca Solnit are not working against Trump when they write against him, but act in his favour whenever they open their demented, regressive mouths?

If we want to get rid of Trump, the fucking SJW loons, who are his counterpart on the far Left, should be kept away from the microphone. They are just enabling the orange imbecile.

I have had very similar things happen on other publications. You try to point out the left's culpability for the rise of Trump, and your comments get disappeared and you get shadowbanned.

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago, and after a bit of spiced rum I began to be convinced that certain elements of the left wanted Trump, that they needed this existential boogeyman to rail against, to have visible oppression and sell clicks. That without the shambling orange disgrace and his fanbois their world would have simply disappeared into irrelevance.

Just paranoia and rum talking, I'm pretty sure. Sorta sure.

[MarcusAu]

It's seems weird that those pictures are in colour.

But I'm sure it's nothing like as weird as being there in person.

[Kirbmarc]

I have had very similar things happen on other publications. You try to point out the left's culpability for the rise of Trump, and your comments get disappeared and you get shadowbanned.

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago, and after a bit of spiced rum I began to be convinced that certain elements of the left wanted Trump, that they needed this existential boogeyman to rail against, to have visible oppression and sell clicks. That without the shambling orange disgrace and his fanbois their world would have simply disappeared into irrelevance.

Just paranoia and rum talking, I'm pretty sure. Sorta sure.

You know what they say. In vino veritas.

I'm pretty sure that for some people in the SocJus movement Trump has been a boon. I'm not sure they wanted him to win, but they're getting excited about him existing, if only because he's so easy for them to hate him and still get pats on their backs from pretty much everyone who's not a Trump supporter or cynical and experienced enough to understand that they're part of the reason why he won.

[DrokkIt]

the Fifth Element was an excellent movie, and it would have been diminished if not for Ruby Rhod.

There, I said it!

STRONGLY CONCUR.

[free thoughtpolice]

It was just that the electorate needed more education but oppressed people were too weary to enact the labor to explain :(
[youtube][/youtube]

[Kirbmarc]

the Fifth Element was an excellent movie, and it would have been diminished if not for Ruby Rhod.

There, I said it!

STRONGLY CONCUR.

[deLurch]

the Fifth Element was an excellent movie, and it would have been diminished if not for Ruby Rhod.
There, I said it!

Agreed. Hilarious movie. Stacked full of over the top heavily stylized characters. Ruby Rhod fit in that universe.

[deLurch]

Your mistake was to consider the Guardian a place for honest discussion and criticism. The Guardian published an article which indirectly blamed German women for being flashy about their smartphones and freedom and attracting the attention of poor, oppressed muslim migrants. I stopped giving the Guardian any credit after that article.

You're right, Trump is a moron but he could only win because the left is infested with other morons. However you can't convince those people that what they're doing is wrong. They're too dogmatically convinced that they're right. Their livelihoods depend on squawking about inconsequential bullshit or agitating people for their scare campaigns. They're in heaven now, since Trump makes them look like they might have a point. Not only they're enabling Trump, Trump is enabling them.

I agree with everything except that last point.

Over the past few years, we have seen the dramatic rise of this kind of insanity without Trump. I believe they would have continued to be as insane without Trump, along with their continued rise in prominence.

[Kirbmarc]

Your mistake was to consider the Guardian a place for honest discussion and criticism. The Guardian published an article which indirectly blamed German women for being flashy about their smartphones and freedom and attracting the attention of poor, oppressed muslim migrants. I stopped giving the Guardian any credit after that article.

You're right, Trump is a moron but he could only win because the left is infested with other morons. However you can't convince those people that what they're doing is wrong. They're too dogmatically convinced that they're right. Their livelihoods depend on squawking about inconsequential bullshit or agitating people for their scare campaigns. They're in heaven now, since Trump makes them look like they might have a point. Not only they're enabling Trump, Trump is enabling them.

I agree with everything except that last point.

Over the past few years, we have seen the dramatic rise of this kind of insanity without Trump. I believe they would have continued to be as insane without Trump, along with their continued rise in prominence.

I'm pretty sure that they would have continue to be as insane without Trump. I'm also pretty sure that they would have strive to rise in prominence. I'm doubtful that they would have enjoyed the popularity of their retarded "No Fascist America" and "Resistance" efforts without the Orange Nightmare (who's not the Hitler they think he is, but who has based his entire political career on triggering them, all while being an incompetent buffoon).

[Guest_6d745865]

The Guardian made very clear when they closed down Comment Is Free and replaced it with the Opinion section (in which not all of the articles have comments open) that they found it problematic when people below the line keep coming with inconvenient data refuting the article. They outright said that they would not open comments on a lot of articles in future specifically because those pesky commenters keep fucking up the narrative.

CaughtUpLockedOut

[free thoughtpolice]

US just shot down a Syrian plane:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/us-sh ... le/2626344
Syrian ground forces attacked US supported rebels, American planes buzzed the Syrians, forcing them back without firing on them or bombing them, and the Syrians sent in a plane to bomb the pro US rebels. That got shot down.

[Brive1987]

The only possible reason Watson would post this is to cuck-shame. Sure enough he came back with a grovelling comment.

#femdom


http://i.imgur.com/9Mqt8wv.jpg

[Kirbmarc]

US just shot down a Syrian plane:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/us-sh ... le/2626344
Syrian ground forces attacked US supported rebels, American planes buzzed the Syrians, forcing them back without firing on them or bombing them, and the Syrians sent in a plane to bomb the pro US rebels. That got shot down.

Iran also has launched missiles in the Deir Ezzor area against ISIS militants.

[Brive1987]

http://i.imgur.com/5y3AF6G.jpg

[KiwiInOz]

Too much German speak going on here. Ah well, that's the Pit for you.

Ich nichten lichten...but I'll have to go along with it.

Ich nicht lichen?

[youtube][/youtube]

Ich bin ein fun guy.

[shoutinghorse]

http://i.imgur.com/5y3AF6G.jpg

I've lost all sympathy for the man, keep fucking crazy you deserve all you get.

http://i.imgur.com/a7JuCRJ.png
http://i.imgur.com/cKS21Ft.jpg