free thoughtpolice wrote:On the serious side, I doubt the peegate thing, but it is funny. Apparently though other parts of the dossier that contained it have been corroborated by the merkin authorities.
Regardless of the sins of the US, I think that Russians interfering with the elections of other countries is not a so what, small matter.
They have the capability of throwing a monkey wrench into the operation of western democracies and are pursuing it aggressively.
True, but every foreign donation interferes with the elections of other countries. The Saudis and Israel have official lobbies within the US, don't they interfere with US elections, too? Hillary even had an aide who was raised in Saudi Arabia (Huma Abedin), nothing suspicious there. Linda Sarsour, a blatant Saudi shill, has somehow found a way to become part of the leadership of a leftist "Women's March" ( :lol: ), nothing suspicious there either.
I think that US citizen have a right to be concerned about all foreign intervention in their politics and limit the activity of foreign lobbies, shed a light on foreign donations, and yes even reinforce their security to avoid "leaks", especially leaks of things that could compromise the interests of the US, not just Clinton's dirty laundry.
Does Putin want friendly governments who he might make deals with? Yes, but don't all heads of state want that? Be careful about that, shed a light on shady dealings, demand politicians to release their tax forms and other relevant documents. But don't expect that Putin won't try some dirty tricks or threaten war with Russia if he does, that's insane.
Everybody spies on everyone else. The US have been trying to influence Russian politics to get rid of Putin for years. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing (I'm no Putin fan and if he was overthrown
without causing a superpower with plenty of nukes to collapse I'd be all for it), but between that and Clinton threatening to impose a cease-fire on Syria that would have targeted Russian planes Putin's move (if it was indeed him who ordered the hacking and it wasn't just information that happened to find its way to the Russia-friendly Wikileaks) was to be expected.
Russia is a nuclear power. Putin isn't the nicest player around, and it's better to be wary of him, but he's a big player and he's not going away anytime soon. Better to be firm and wary of Russia, but not to poke the bear senselessly.
For example trying to create a salafi state in Syria just to take down Assad because he was too Russia-friendly (and threatened the petro-dollar system) was a huge mistake. It indirectly paved the way to the Islamic State and more directly to the other countless salafi groups in Syria (Al-Nusra, formerly Al-Qaeda, among them...and the US have called them "moderates" :lol: ).
In general, however, the US have to understand that just because someone claims to be their friends they're not necessary a good ally, and just because another country is a long-time rival it doesn't mean that it must be destroyed or its government toppled.
There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" in international politics. The US are the biggest power around and they're relatively better than some others (especially as a place to live in), but they're not the beacon of democracy that they claim to be. They're not the guardian of international laws, either: they've violated when it was convenient for them to do it, just like everyone else. Geopolitics and interests are harsh mistresses and naive idealism has little room in wars and covert operations.
However a nation's number one priority should be to defend its citizens, and at least another important one is not to "piss on the bed" of the places you have bases in, which I don't think that the US have done very well by avoiding to upset the Saudis and allowing their salafi clerics around, even sponsoring them, without caring about the backlash in the US and in Western Europe.
