The Refuge of the Toads

[Guest_0048cc29]

On the late blog post by Steve Novella.
1. I think he has realized he has majorly stepped in it. And instead of avoiding controversey, he is now dead center in the middle of it all.
2. He could be attempting to contact Dawkins & his other board members to try and walk this back.
3. Dawkins handled NECSS's behavior with class.

Other considerations on the NECSS/Dawkins issue:
1. If any speaker at NECSS wishes to back out of the conference for any reason, all they have to do is retweet that video.
2. Online Feminists/SJWers now know that NECSS is vulerable to twitter outrage events. They can orchestrate the ouster of any speaker they do not like. Even if the speaker does not say something they can use, they can orchastrate a caniption fit over something.
3. All of the registered speakers are now aware they are under some unwritten rule that they must not piss off any feminists or else they will receive the Dawkins treatment at a moment's notice. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of a position for 9 months.

RICHARD WISEMAN KEYNOTE SPEAKER
BILL NYE THE SCIENCE GUY, Conference Emcee
JAMY IAN SWISS CONFERENCE EMCEE, Conference & Workshop Speakers
NEER ASHERIE PHYSICIST
NIKI ATHANASIADOU RESEARCH SCIENTIST
JANN BELLAMY SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
DEBORAH BEREBICHEZ PHYSICIST
SHARI BERKOWITZ SOCIAL SCIENTIST
EVAN BERNSTEIN THE SKEPTICS’ GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
BABA BRINKMAN RAPPER | PLAYWRIGHT
HAI-TING CHINN OPERA SINGER
YVETTE D’ENTREMONT THE “SCIBABE”
JULIA GALEF CENTER FOR APPLIED RATIONALITY
CLAY JONES SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
SCOTT GAVURA SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
HARRIET HALL SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
SAUL HYMES SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
GEORGE HRAB MUSICIAN | PODCASTER
MICHAEL MANN CLIMATE SCIENTIST
GRANT RITCHEY SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
MATT SCHICKELE COMPOSER
JOHN SNYDER SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
BRIAN WALKER TECHNOLOGIST & AUTODIDACT
BRIAN WECHT PHYSICIST | THE STORY COLLIDER

- Soylent f98

I wouldn't be surprised that the amount of negative feedback they got from cancelling Dawkins was larger than they got to remove Dawkins in the first place. Also I think a few of the more sane leaders in the Skepticism/Atheism movement probably had a word as well.

... and so after all of that, one of those fucktarded Novella cunts sat down and clicked play on the video.

[Tapir]

I love how Watson refers to it as Dawkins' 'HATE TWEET'.

:lol:

[Guest_84d94f98]

pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ83AJZUMAAV5Ob.jpg

Is that Cara?

[Kirbmarc]

I love how Watson refers to it as Dawkins' 'HATE TWEET'.

:lol:

From the reactions of the radfems you'd think that Dawkins was the one who said that the German women victims of sexual assault basically had it coming for what happened in Cologne because they were rich and had I-phones while the migrants are poor and disenfranchised.

Oh, wait, it was a feminist writer on the Guardian. And nobody sid anything to her.

And Laurie Penny wrote that people concerned by the attitudes of Muslim migrants actually wish to be free to rape and assault her and other radfems. But nobody batted an eye.

Dawkins retweets a song which satirizes the feminist accomodationism for sexual crimes committed or justified by Muslims, and NECSS bans him.

Dawkins says to the feminists that they are a disgrace to their own ideals and he's guilty of hate.

Or better yet, he's guilty of satirizing feminists, the worst crime that a feminist can conceive.

Radfems are actually fine with rape and sexual assault, because they just prove what they argue, that white men (and only white men) are the devil.

Being criticized and mocked is what really ticks them off, because they're afraid that everyone will see them for the laughing stock that they are.

So basically, go Dawkins. Your only mistake was to apologize to Lindy West. Never apologize to a SJW, they're like sharks, they sniff blood in the water and keep attacking.

[Kirbmarc]

pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ83AJZUMAAV5Ob.jpg

Is that Cara?

The last item on the list contradicts the rest of it.

[Steersman]

Steersman bud, focus on concise writing. You were doing better for a while. But you have fully regressed.

-Soylent f98

Thanks (seriously) - I'll try to keep that in mind; maybe too many irons in the fire. But any post in particular particularly obscure?

[Spike13]

Ape - next time you do a Carrier shoop, could you see fit to include either:

A bonsai tree piloting a Zero fighter.

A wee Jap piloting a bonsai tree.

Cheers.

Please tell me that idiot didn't say that.( bonzai and bonsai are the same word/ thing)

Although both words originally came from China they only bear a cosmetic resemblance.

Bonzai means " ten thousand years" also translated to English as " long life". Taken from the phrase "Tenno Heikka Bonzai" or "long life to the Emperor". Although no one knows if kamikaze pilots actually shouted it as they plowed to their deaths, infantry certainly did as they engaged in "Bonzai " or "kamikaze " charges.

Bonsai Bon -tray like pot. Sai -planting or plantings.

If it was an attempt at humor it was a poor one.
Even worse for someone who purportedly takes history as a discipline.

[jimthepleb]

I got the final post on the last thread. That's two now -- I AM A GOD AMONG YOU MERE MORTALS!

Godammit! I didn't even get to post nudey pics of Anne Robinson.

[Spike13]

Looks like JK Rowling might sue McGarry For the 'misogynist abuse' tweets.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/celebrity/ ... -1-4015679

Good. And Rowling's titanium-hearted-bitch response to McGarry is a thing of beauty:

Dude, that was like killing a slug with the Wave Motion Gun.

Holy Shit! A Starblazers/ Cruiseship Yamoto reference..... I'm keeping my eye on you Welch...

[Steersman]

However, while I'll concede that I might well be wrong in some of my arguments, I'm not at all sure that many here are not also laboring under the misapprehensions if not delusions that their own assumptions are without flaw. And, more particularly, I can't say that I've seen any particularly cogent and well-supported counter arguments in at least some cases. And, even more so, I don't see that you've actually acknowledged my question about the results of your letter to Croom

Croom never answered. If he had, I would have posted his answer on this board.

I had thought that that was probably the case. But I had asked several times and hadn't had any response - at least that I had seen.

or that you realize that you are, essentially and apparently by my lights, making a prescription out of your descriptive linguistics.

This like saying "you have made a circle out of your square".

I was probably overly vague there, and maybe not particularly well versed in the terminology, but my intent was not to suggest that descriptive and prescriptive linguistics are the same - complementary according to Wikipedia. It was to suggest that you were, to some extent, asserting that your descriptive linguistics should be regarded as a prescription, as "something prescribed; a rule, law, or direction". The "naturalistic fallacy" - whatever is is right.

Seem to recollect that you've criticized me several times because I've suggested or argued that language should be regarded as analogous to mathematical theorems and axioms. And that, consequently, one should be able to determine whether the grammar is actually consistent, and therefore, presumably, prescribe corrections on that basis. Not sure if you've seen this before, would be surprised if you haven't, but it's a recent story titled: Noam Chomsky’s Theory Of Universal Grammar Is Right; It's Hardwired Into Our Brains.

Now I'm kind of guessing, and it is maybe a long shot, but it seems to me that that at least potentially underwrites my argument: if there is some underlying grammar - would be terribly surprised if there wasn't - then presumably there are some intrinsic axioms & theorems undergirding language that have or exhibit some degree of consistency, even if that is not always perfect. Which then justifies the efforts to understand that, and to identify and correct those imperfections. Periodically think it's somewhat analogous to, if not underwritten by, the error correction that takes place continuously during the process of DNA replication - arguably, a language.

[Spike13]

Would love to see enough push-back that they apologize to Dawkins.

All these groups react to negative input, even more so to negative cash flow.

If the pro Dawkins side makes enough noise, they'll have to issue some kind of statement.

I doubt it will happen, but it would be nice to see.

[rayshul]

Slight tangent here - how do you stop leftists you know publicly shaming people on social media?

This is a constant thing for me and I just don't know how to stop them, they're always at it. Is there a nice reasonable discussion about this that I could link to, or some easy points?

[Guest_84d94f98]

Thanks (seriously) - I'll try to keep that in mind; maybe too many irons in the fire. But any post in particular particularly obscure?

This section quoted by Kirbmarc stood out.

However, while I'll concede that I might well be wrong in some of my arguments, I'm not at all sure that many here are not also laboring under the misapprehensions if not delusions that their own assumptions are without flaw. And, more particularly, I can't say that I've seen any particularly cogent and well-supported counter arguments in at least some cases. And, even more so, I don't see that you've actually acknowledged my question about the results of your letter to Croom

There is a lot of fluff surrounding the points you are attempting to make.
-Soylent f98

However, while I'll concede that I might well be wrong in some of my arguments,. I'm not at all sure that many here are not also may be laboring under the misapprehensions if not delusions that their own assumptions are without flaw. And, more particularly, I can't say that I've haven't seen any particularly cogent and well-supported counter arguments in at least some cases. And, even more so, I don't see that you've have not actually acknowledged my question about the results of your letter to Croom

I may be wrong in some of my arguments. However, many here may be laboring under delusions their assumptions are without flaw. I have seen poorly supported counter arguments in some cases. You have not actually acknowledged my question about the results of your letter to Croom

Watch out for fluff between commas. Watch out for sentences with double negatives.

Keep practicing by writing out your thoughts. Then go back and eliminate every unnecessary word. Add back, a word here or there sparingly as needed.

[Guest_84d94f98]

Steersman,
If your sentences have many commas and are long, they may need to be broken up into two or three simple sentences.

-Soylent f98

[piginthecity]

Ho ho ho PZ

http://i.imgur.com/AUaWMgI.jpg

I think that's actually a good joke ! Well done the Peezer !

[Spike13]

Slight tangent here - how do you stop leftists you know publicly shaming people on social media?

This is a constant thing for me and I just don't know how to stop them, they're always at it. Is there a nice reasonable discussion about this that I could link to, or some easy points?

In what way?
Is it political memes or judgemental nanny finger shaking?

[Brive1987]

In my plain english course we were told that science had proved that the optimal number of words per sentence should be no more than 12, this sentence hangs it's head in shame.

[DaveDodo007]

Carrier. The gift keeps giving.

Time for the Hoodoo Gurus me thinks:

[youtube]N56YnwlRU4c[/youtube]

Then how the fuck is he still alive? Did he fly 15 successful missions or something.

[Brive1987]

He missed ...... by that much.

http://i.imgur.com/nnmxsgL.jpg

[Spike13]

Carrier. The gift keeps giving.

Time for the Hoodoo Gurus me thinks:

[youtube]N56YnwlRU4c[/youtube]

Then how the fuck is he still alive? Did he fly 15 successful missions or something.

In the video you see the pilot getting out of a zero whose engine is smoking.( hence not mission worthy) I'd like to think that once the hero of the tune experienced that he decided not to give his life for the emperor.

I could be wrong. I only watched it once.

[Spike13]

By the by, was the footage in the video from a movie? It looked pretty good.

[Biohazard]

Dawkins just reTweeted the following image from an @@nadine_feiler. This will surely stoke the fires of outrage.

:popcorn:

[piginthecity]

On the late blog post by Steve Novella.
1. I think he has realized he has majorly stepped in it. And instead of avoiding controversey, he is now dead center in the middle of it all.
2. He could be attempting to contact Dawkins & his other board members to try and walk this back.
3. Dawkins handled NECSS's behavior with class.

Other considerations on the NECSS/Dawkins issue:
1. If any speaker at NECSS wishes to back out of the conference for any reason, all they have to do is retweet that video.
2. Online Feminists/SJWers now know that NECSS is vulerable to twitter outrage events. They can orchestrate the ouster of any speaker they do not like. Even if the speaker does not say something they can use, they can orchastrate a caniption fit over something.
3. All of the registered speakers are now aware they are under some unwritten rule that they must not piss off any feminists or else they will receive the Dawkins treatment at a moment's notice. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of a position for 9 months.

RICHARD WISEMAN KEYNOTE SPEAKER
BILL NYE THE SCIENCE GUY, Conference Emcee
JAMY IAN SWISS CONFERENCE EMCEE, Conference & Workshop Speakers
NEER ASHERIE PHYSICIST
NIKI ATHANASIADOU RESEARCH SCIENTIST
JANN BELLAMY SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
DEBORAH BEREBICHEZ PHYSICIST
SHARI BERKOWITZ SOCIAL SCIENTIST
EVAN BERNSTEIN THE SKEPTICS’ GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
BABA BRINKMAN RAPPER | PLAYWRIGHT
HAI-TING CHINN OPERA SINGER
YVETTE D’ENTREMONT THE “SCIBABE”
JULIA GALEF CENTER FOR APPLIED RATIONALITY
CLAY JONES SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
SCOTT GAVURA SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
HARRIET HALL SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
SAUL HYMES SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
GEORGE HRAB MUSICIAN | PODCASTER
MICHAEL MANN CLIMATE SCIENTIST
GRANT RITCHEY SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
MATT SCHICKELE COMPOSER
JOHN SNYDER SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE-BASED MEDICINE
BRIAN WALKER TECHNOLOGIST & AUTODIDACT
BRIAN WECHT PHYSICIST | THE STORY COLLIDER

- Soylent f98

I don't see the heroic Carol Tavris on that list, although I noticed her on earlier copies. Has she pulled out in disgust, I wonder, or is there some other explanation ?

[paddybrown]

1975 radio sketch by Douglas Adams about a Kamikaze pilot being debriefed after his 19th mission...

[youtube]aZzh2G7noPc[/youtube]

Note. I remember reading the actual script for this sketch in a book many years ago, and it seems the show edited out the best bit. Went something like:

COMMANDING OFFICER: What is the duty of a Kamikaze pilot?
PILOT: Die for the Emperor, sir.
COMMANDING OFFICER: To what end?
PILOT: Make the enemy feel guilty, sir.

[Guest_84d94f98]

I don't see the heroic Carol Tavris on that list, although I noticed her on earlier copies. Has she pulled out in disgust, I wonder, or is there some other explanation ?

She was not on the list as of Jan 25th @20:52 GMT according to Google Cache, when Dawkins was still on the list. Bill Nye was not on the original list.

archive.is/wDtli

I could not find any prior history on archive.is or the Internet Archive.

Since Bill Nye has replaced Richard Dawkins on the schedule, I wonder if NECSS told Bill Nye what they were doing. That is one hell of a turn around time to bring Bill Nye in 24 hours, and axe Richard Dawkins over night, without Richard Dawkin's knowledge.

Hell, I wonder if they even got the contracts signed with Bill Nye in that short amount of time. If I were Bill, and I had not signed a contract yet, I would be noping the hell out of this mess.

-Soylent f98

[Satan]

Slight tangent here - how do you stop leftists you know publicly shaming people on social media?

Fundraise for, or donate money to, their victims so they can afford to sue their attackers into destitution. Feminist defamation attacks happen only because the legal system is incapable of providing redress to all but the very rich and more accessible forms of redress (e.g. dueling) have been made illegal. Cutting down feminists means bringing money to the table.

[Spike13]

I don't see the heroic Carol Tavris on that list, although I noticed her on earlier copies. Has she pulled out in disgust, I wonder, or is there some other explanation ?

She was not on the list as of Jan 25th @20:52 GMT according to Google Cache, when Dawkins was still on the list. Bill Nye was not on the original list.

archive.is/wDtli

I could not find any prior history on archive.is or the Internet Archive.

Since Bill Nye has replaced Richard Dawkins on the schedule, I wonder if NECSS told Bill Nye what they were doing. That is one hell of a turn around time to bring Bill Nye in 24 hours, and axe Richard Dawkins over night, without Richard Dawkin's knowledge.

Hell, I wonder if they even got the contracts signed with Bill Nye in that short amount of time. If I were Bill, and I had not signed a contract yet, I would be noping the hell out of this mess.

-Soylent f98

Don't get me wrong,I like Bill Nye, but I don't think anyone is kicking down the door to get to him at this point. ( I don't know , he may be doing well, I just haven't seen him on TV in a while.) Any work is good work.

[Hunt]

Hell, I wonder if they even got the contracts signed with Bill Nye in that short amount of time. If I were Bill, and I had not signed a contract yet, I would be noping the hell out of this mess.

-Soylent f98

Kind of like bringing in scab labor. If Nye did this knowingly, it's a huge point against him.

[Spike13]

Slight tangent here - how do you stop leftists you know publicly shaming people on social media?

Fundraise for, or donate money to, their victims so they can afford to sue their attackers into destitution. Feminist defamation attacks happen only because the legal system is incapable of providing redress to all but the very rich and more accessible forms of redress (e.g. dueling) have been made illegal. Cutting down feminists means bringing money to the table.

You only say that because most of the lawyers are going to end up in your realm.

[Spike13]

Are there any " Hot" known Atheist acts going on now?

It seems like many of the larger lights in the movement are famous for stuff they did/wrote almost ten or more years ago.

there doesn't seem to be anyone " new" rising to take the place of the old stand-bys.

( I know what became the SJW front thought that they would be the new standard bearers of the movement. They turned out to be as entertaining as a scolding from an old spinster and as welcome as a fart in an elevator.)

[Guest_84d94f98]

Wild Speculation:
Some time close to the 25th, but after they had signed Richard Dawkins, NECSS discovers that they can bring in Bill Nye where as they thought they could not do so before (be it drop in negotiated price, or Bill's schedule freed up). NECSS can afford either Dawkins or Nye, but not both. The NECSS wait for an opportunity to dump Dawkins (a poutrage is bound to occur at some point). When it happened, they rushed to sign Bill Nye, and immediately dumped Dawkins "with cause."

[Brive1987]

By the by, was the footage in the video from a movie? It looked pretty good.

I think this is a news report about the movie.

[youtube]imtQEMU9BEg[/youtube]

[Guest_84d94f98]

Given the shit storm that appears to be occurring on Twitter right now back at the NECSS, and in other reported media, is this a sign that we have finally round the bend when it comes to feminist dogma within the Atheist-Skeptic community?

[jimthepleb]

Given the shit storm that appears to be occurring on Twitter right now back at the NECSS, and in other reported media, is this a sign that we have finally round the bend when it comes to feminist dogma within the Atheist-Skeptic community?

Atheist community....perhaps
Skeptic community.....decidedly not!

[Shatterface]

However, while I'll concede that I might well be wrong in some of my arguments, I'm not at all sure that many here are not also laboring under the misapprehensions if not delusions that their own assumptions are without flaw. And, more particularly, I can't say that I've seen any particularly cogent and well-supported counter arguments in at least some cases. And, even more so, I don't see that you've actually acknowledged my question about the results of your letter to Croom

Croom never answered. If he had, I would have posted his answer on this board.

I had thought that that was probably the case. But I had asked several times and hadn't had any response - at least that I had seen.

or that you realize that you are, essentially and apparently by my lights, making a prescription out of your descriptive linguistics.

This like saying "you have made a circle out of your square".

I was probably overly vague there, and maybe not particularly well versed in the terminology, but my intent was not to suggest that descriptive and prescriptive linguistics are the same - complementary according to Wikipedia. It was to suggest that you were, to some extent, asserting that your descriptive linguistics should be regarded as a prescription, as "something prescribed; a rule, law, or direction". The "naturalistic fallacy" - whatever is is right.

Seem to recollect that you've criticized me several times because I've suggested or argued that language should be regarded as analogous to mathematical theorems and axioms. And that, consequently, one should be able to determine whether the grammar is actually consistent, and therefore, presumably, prescribe corrections on that basis. Not sure if you've seen this before, would be surprised if you haven't, but it's a recent story titled: Noam Chomsky’s Theory Of Universal Grammar Is Right; It's Hardwired Into Our Brains.

Now I'm kind of guessing, and it is maybe a long shot, but it seems to me that that at least potentially underwrites my argument: if there is some underlying grammar - would be terribly surprised if there wasn't - then presumably there are some intrinsic axioms & theorems undergirding language that have or exhibit some degree of consistency, even if that is not always perfect. Which then justifies the efforts to understand that, and to identify and correct those imperfections. Periodically think it's somewhat analogous to, if not underwritten by, the error correction that takes place continuously during the process of DNA replication - arguably, a language.

Chomsky's theories refer to grammar, not semantics, and even so universal grammar refers to the underlying 'deep' structure, not its surface manifestations. Chomsky isn't prescriptive, he's descriptive. As is Pinker.

If you think Chomsky grants you licence to call black people 'niggers' please contact him for clarification.

[VickyCaramel]

Given the shit storm that appears to be occurring on Twitter right now back at the NECSS, and in other reported media, is this a sign that we have finally round the bend when it comes to feminist dogma within the Atheist-Skeptic community?

I think that happened when RDF took over the CFI. This is just a gift.

I have been reading the SGU forum, and these idiots (some of whom state their preferred pronouns) actually believe they represent the majority of skeptics. They are asking why Dawkins is relevant today, blissfully unaware that he is relevant precisely because he questions their dogma. There is also the free speech and no-platforming issue, which any sane individual should be on the right side of.

We can't lose if we actually have this debate, which is of course why they have spent the last 5 years trying to shut down any debate of these issues.

[Shatterface]

Would love to see enough push-back that they apologize to Dawkins.

All these groups react to negative input, even more so to negative cash flow.

If the pro Dawkins side makes enough noise, they'll have to issue some kind of statement.

I doubt it will happen, but it would be nice to see.

I'd love to see the #NECCSSoWhite tag take off. If they're going to play identity politics I thinks it's worth pointing out the difference between virtue signalling and actual diversity.

[Brive1987]

Novella's article is up

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... d-dawkins/

[Suet Cardigan]

Gary Edwards on Steve Shites Shives and standpoint theory:

[youtube]5hitPeZ2DyY[/youtube]

[Shatterface]

Slight tangent here - how do you stop leftists you know publicly shaming people on social media?

This is a constant thing for me and I just don't know how to stop them, they're always at it. Is there a nice reasonable discussion about this that I could link to, or some easy points?

In what way?
Is it political memes or judgemental nanny finger shaking?

Tell them to read Jon Ronson's So You've Been Publicly Shamed and/or fuck off.

[Brive1987]

What a fucking joke the SGU response is.

They fuck up by inviting controversy they didn't want. But no apology.

Novella throws "troll" and "psychopath" about to poison the air around Dawkins.

The video is simply branded hate speech hiding behind satire.

And oh. Criticism of feminism is ok - but (literally) "not at our conference".

SGU have thrown Dawkins under the buS.

[johnself]

Hello all,

I'm interested in doing a livestream with some of the veteran members of the Slyme Pit. I'd like to know how and why Slyme Pit exists and what happened leading up to it in the atheist community.

I think it'd be useful for people outside of the community to know what happened, so if you guys could agree on some kind of delegation that I can host on my channel to interview, in a week or so's time, that would be fantastic.

Let me know what you think or whether this invitation is terribly unwelcome, or anything like that.

Cheers

Sargon

Hello and fuck off?
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=334671&sid=0392b77 ... 1c#p334671

[Ape+lust]

Novella's article is up

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... d-dawkins/

Great. Just what we needed, a big old slab of reGreta. This won't help Novella one bit.

Christ... he's banging that same old lousy tune. Dawkins is polarizing. Divisive. Insensitive. 10 years ago, the British press used to call him strident and shrill. Someone's always wanting to shut him up, and they've usually done it by mischaracterizing his demeanor.

NECSS 2012 featured PZ Myers. Yeah. The guy who, even then, personalized every disagreement. If you were on his wrong side, you, his Twitter followers, and his commentariat knew you were, at the very least, a "fucking asshole."

Last week, I didn't care much about the fortunes of NECSS or Steve Novella. Today, I'm happy to see them getting pummeled on Twitter.

[Kirbmarc]

Sargon of Akkad has posted an introduction to the forum.

He wants some Pit veterans for a livestream podcast.

I took the liberty of suggesting some names.

I've also had a Dick Carrier moment and added my name to the list, although if anyone who's more of Pit veteran than me wants to take part in the podcast I'll slink back with as much grace as I can.

[Shatterface]

Novella's article is up

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... d-dawkins/

Great. Just what we needed, a big old slab of reGreta. This won't help Novella one bit.

Christ... he's banging that same old lousy tune. Dawkins is polarizing. Divisive. Insensitive. 10 years ago, the British press used to call him strident and shrill. Someone's always wanting to shut him up, and they've usually done it by mischaracterizing his demeanor.

NECSS 2012 featured PZ Myers. Yeah. The guy who, even then, personalized every disagreement. If you were on his wrong side, you, his Twitter followers, and his commentariat knew you were, at the very least, a "fucking asshole."

Last week, I didn't care much about the fortunes of NECSS or Steve Novella. Today, I'm happy to see them getting pummeled on Twitter.

I don't think I'd even heard of them. This is great publicity for them. I'm sure they're delighted with Bill Nye but he's largely unknown outside the US. He doesn't have the global reach of Dawkins.

[Oglebart]

Sargon of Akkad has posted an introduction to the forum.

He wants some Pit veterans for a livestream podcast.

I took the liberty of suggesting some names.

I've also had a Dick Carrier moment and added my name to the list, although if anyone who's more of Pit veteran than me wants to take part in the podcast I'll slink back with as much grace as I can.

That's interesting, I hope it happens. That's a pretty good list you have put up, but I know Sargon and Milo are big fans of Godfrey Elfwick, so maybe Parsehole would be interested too.

Ultimately though I guess Lsuoma is the guy that makes this place happen, so his call perhaps?

[Kirbmarc]

Sargon of Akkad has posted an introduction to the forum.

He wants some Pit veterans for a livestream podcast.

I took the liberty of suggesting some names.

I've also had a Dick Carrier moment and added my name to the list, although if anyone who's more of Pit veteran than me wants to take part in the podcast I'll slink back with as much grace as I can.

That's interesting, I hope it happens. That's a pretty good list you have put up, but I know Sargon and Milo are big fans of Godfrey Elfwick, so maybe Parsehole would be interested too.

Ultimately though I guess Lsuoma is the guy that makes this place happen, so his call perhaps?

I'd have suggested Parsehole but he seems to have retired from the Pit.

[Hunt]

Novella's article is up

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... d-dawkins/

Criticizing feminism is okay, like calling a cop an asshole is technically legal, but if you do it you're spending the night in jail. Can someone point me to an instance where criticizing feminism was ever well received?

[Oglebart]

Have you seen this at the Australian Open? Someone blacking up and impersonating Serena Williams, incredible. Do any of the Aussies here know what this is all about?

https://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.co ... &strip=all

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... match.html

[Oglebart]

I'd have suggested Parsehole but he seems to have retired from the Pit.

He was here last week, much scarcer these days though admittedly.

[deLurch]

Novella's article is up
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... d-dawkins/

Archive of the response article:
https://archive.is/xaHr6
No reason to avoid going to the original link though.

[deLurch]

Well Novella's article does explain their thought process.

But they still fucked up.
* They knew who they were signing on prior to getting him on board. Changing course was really bad form. (However offering refunds was one of the few smart decisions they made).
* Not informing Richard Dawkins first was also a major Dick move.
* They were major dicks in the un-invite announcement too. Dawkins performed a much better response.

So what is going to happen to the rest of the speakers when they do something that NECSS disapproves of? They have already shown what they will do.

[Spike13]

Wild Speculation:
Some time close to the 25th, but after they had signed Richard Dawkins, NECSS discovers that they can bring in Bill Nye where as they thought they could not do so before (be it drop in negotiated price, or Bill's schedule freed up). NECSS can afford either Dawkins or Nye, but not both. The NECSS wait for an opportunity to dump Dawkins (a poutrage is bound to occur at some point). When it happened, they rushed to sign Bill Nye, and immediately dumped Dawkins "with cause."

A bit Machiavellin for those folks.
Dawkins is still a big draw. I can't see shelving him in favor of Nye. Nye is a great guy, but he doesn't carry the cache' of Dawkins.

I don't think this was planned, it's just how it played out.

[Sunder]

Dumb fuck:

Also, sad to see Novella go full retard, as I quite enjoyed his two Teaching Company lectures, although I'm not a big fan of SGU.

[Sunder]

Nye's fame is entirely built around being the guy half the audience remembers watching as a kid.

And he's not a dumb guy, but some of his science outreach efforts (such as the series of internet lectures where he tried to explain evolution using emojis) were at best silly and at worst factually incorrect and misleading in a few places. But at least he made the effort.

But I've yet to be blown away by one of his books, and certainly none are on par with The Selfish Gene or The Blind Watchmaker.

Not to mention that Nye has appeared on The Big Bang Theory and Dawkins has not. Negative fifty points to Nye for that.

[deLurch]

So the Steve Novella passes the buck back to the NECSS board. The NECESS board according to him is made up of members of the NY Skeptics and the New England Skeptic Society.

The board of directors for the NYC Skeptics is here:
http://nycskeptics.org/board-of-directors/

Yelena Bernadskaya
Spyridon Condos
Julia Galef
Michael Feldman
Daniel Korostyshevsky
Benny Pollak
Jamy Ian Swiss
Page Van Meter

The Staff of the New England Skeptic Society is as follow:
http://www.theness.com/index.php/about/

NESS President: Dr. Steven Novella
Vice President: Robert Novella
Bob is a co-founder and Vice-President of the New England Skeptical Society.
Executive Director: Evan Bernstein, Evan Bernstein is the co-host of The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe and is the producer and co-host of The Skeptics Guide 5×5 weekly science podcasts. He posts a blog each Monday at The Rogues Gallery, the official blog of the SGU. Evan serves as the technical adviser for official NESS investigations
Director of Marketing and Technology: Jay Novella
Web Manager: Mike Lacelle

[Spike13]

Given the shit storm that appears to be occurring on Twitter right now back at the NECSS, and in other reported media, is this a sign that we have finally round the bend when it comes to feminist dogma within the Atheist-Skeptic community?

Atheist community....perhaps
Skeptic community.....decidedly not!

Jim hits the nail pretty good.

The Atheist community has it easier as they can always back seat the SJW's by claiming they do outreach to all atheists. The mission is in the name. They seem to have more flexibility.

They do seem to be losing influence in the skeptic community. They've lost the battle for " you tube. ( and that where the real outreach is.) the cons are going to have to change or die. As we saw this year at Skeptcon, the SJW's don't deliver the numbers or the funds.

[Scented Nectar]

Ape - next time you do a Carrier shoop, could you see fit to include either:

A bonsai tree piloting a Zero fighter.

A wee Jap piloting a bonsai tree.

Cheers.

I've got one too. How about Carrier wearing an opened raincoat, explaining to someone that it's quite average sized for a bonzai. :D

[Spike13]

Would love to see enough push-back that they apologize to Dawkins.

All these groups react to negative input, even more so to negative cash flow.

If the pro Dawkins side makes enough noise, they'll have to issue some kind of statement.

I doubt it will happen, but it would be nice to see.

I'd love to see the #NECCSSoWhite tag take off. If they're going to play identity politics I thinks it's worth pointing out the difference between virtue signalling and actual diversity.

Being hoist by their own petards... Delicious!

[katamari Damassi]

Hell, I wonder if they even got the contracts signed with Bill Nye in that short amount of time. If I were Bill, and I had not signed a contract yet, I would be noping the hell out of this mess.

-Soylent f98

Kind of like bringing in scab labor. If Nye did this knowingly, it's a huge point against him.

Doesn't Nye have SJW harassment allegations against him? Isn't he guilty of being an old white man who flirts with girls and is therefore a creeper. How can the SJWs stand to allow Bill Nye a platform at NECSS where he'll use his disproportionate power to coerce young women into sex with him therefore rape?

Thank you. Thank you. I'm here all week.