Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

Old subthreads
Jonathan
.
.
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:59 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33601

Post by Jonathan »

piginthecity wrote:I haven't got any cash on me at the moment for a donation, but I'm sure I speak for all the Slymepit when I offer fraternal and soriotorial greetings and congratulations to our friends over at Atheism Plus on the occasion of their second and final anniversary.
Out of curiosity, did any of the FTB big-hitters *pauses to laugh* actually respond to the tweets about A+'s second anniversary?

Even over there it isn't being mentioned, unless it's in the private members-only bit.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33602

Post by Hunt »

piginthecity wrote:I haven't got any cash on me at the moment for a donation, but I'm sure I speak for all the Slymepit when I offer fraternal and soriotorial greetings and congratulations to our friends over at Atheism Plus on the occasion of their second and final anniversary.


Alright, alright team! We're almost halfway through and we're just about half...er, we're, well, we're at $0 so far. But...great. So, projecting that to the end of the fundraiser, we'll be at just over... $0 .... .... by the end of next week. .......... But that's ok!, that's ok, because we're building steam. This is gonna be great....

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33603

Post by Hunt »

Ok, that's just too pathetic. If they're still at $0 by the 25th *I'M* going to give the fuckers $5 just so they don't come in at zero. Someone remind me.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
That's All Folks
That's All Folks
Posts: 11875
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:56 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33604

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I'm off for the weekend with my friends to plant that memorial tree I mentioned before. We may get drunk.

I'll try to catch up Sunday evening.

Have a fun weekend everyone!

Phil_Giordana_FCD
That's All Folks
That's All Folks
Posts: 11875
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:56 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33605

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

(Mostly, I'm just bragging about having friends; privileged cunt that I am).

Southern
.
.
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33606

Post by Southern »

Opyt wrote:
Garlix wrote:Does anybody know what the TV show will do after they reach the end of the current series of books?

If GRRM kicks the bucket, they can just commission someone to write some kind of ending. But what if he just limps along at ~0.1 book/year? Will they just put the series on hold for a decade or something?
We call them filler. The Japanese have been doing it to us for YEARS with Anime.
And everytime they do this, the quality of the show goes downhill. Rurouni Kenshin actually was cancelled before the last manga arc was adapted because the filler was so bad, ratings dropped to the ground. So prepare your anuses: if the producers of Game of Thrones have to resort to filler, then it will be the beginning of the end for the show.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
That's All Folks
That's All Folks
Posts: 11875
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:56 pm
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33607

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Southern wrote:
Opyt wrote:
Garlix wrote:Does anybody know what the TV show will do after they reach the end of the current series of books?

If GRRM kicks the bucket, they can just commission someone to write some kind of ending. But what if he just limps along at ~0.1 book/year? Will they just put the series on hold for a decade or something?
We call them filler. The Japanese have been doing it to us for YEARS with Anime.
And everytime they do this, the quality of the show goes downhill. Rurouni Kenshin actually was cancelled before the last manga arc was adapted because the filler was so bad, ratings dropped to the ground. So prepare your anuses: if the producers of Game of Thrones have to resort to filler, then it will be the beginning of the end for the show.
I'm half-expecting them to pull out a "musical" episode. Maybe also a "fantasy" one. No, wait...

Scented Nectar
.
.
Posts: 4969
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:45 am
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33608

Post by Scented Nectar »

Lsuoma wrote:2wv1234567890qwertEfg=pppppwww.www.www.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo...................cmo.GGGggghf
So, like, are you going to share your drugs with us or what? Whatever you're on, I want some too. :lol:

didymos
.
.
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33609

Post by didymos »

Jonathan wrote:
piginthecity wrote:I haven't got any cash on me at the moment for a donation, but I'm sure I speak for all the Slymepit when I offer fraternal and soriotorial greetings and congratulations to our friends over at Atheism Plus on the occasion of their second and final anniversary.
Out of curiosity, did any of the FTB big-hitters *pauses to laugh* actually respond to the tweets about A+'s second anniversary?

Even over there it isn't being mentioned, unless it's in the private members-only bit.
Did anyone congratulate Jen McCreight?

Dick Strawkins
.
.
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:34 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33610

Post by Dick Strawkins »

http://i100.independent.co.uk/image/27060-1ra2ywd.jpg

It says "fact" so I guess it must be true.

By the way, I did a quick calculation based on the area of the "Actual false allegations" they show in this diagram, compared to the "All reported rapes" area, and it comes out as 0.23% of the area of the all reported rapes circle.
That is over ten times less than the figure of 3% they themselves quote from Rape Crisis Scotland (which is likely a major underestimate of the real figure, generally agreed to be at least 8% - and that's of the case that are reported to police, many rape allegations, like those of Myers and Thibeault, don't get that far.)
The diagram is pure propaganda.

HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33611

Post by HunnyBunny »

Jonathan wrote:
piginthecity wrote:I haven't got any cash on me at the moment for a donation, but I'm sure I speak for all the Slymepit when I offer fraternal and soriotorial greetings and congratulations to our friends over at Atheism Plus on the occasion of their second and final anniversary.
Out of curiosity, did any of the FTB big-hitters *pauses to laugh* actually respond to the tweets about A+'s second anniversary?

Even over there it isn't being mentioned, unless it's in the private members-only bit.
You won't see dick-shit from FTB in this, seems the A+ Forums have gotten too tedious and laughable for even them.

Carrier write in one of his 20,000 word bitch sessions about Jaclyn Glenn:
There are also people who hate the Atheism+ forums, but since I’m not aware of any major Atheism+ advocate having anything to do with those anymore, I really can’t help you if they are eating your babies and skeet shooting kittens. They no longer have official ties to any of us, and are just doing their own thing.

Southern
.
.
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33612

Post by Southern »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Southern wrote:
Opyt wrote:
We call them filler. The Japanese have been doing it to us for YEARS with Anime.
And everytime they do this, the quality of the show goes downhill. Rurouni Kenshin actually was cancelled before the last manga arc was adapted because the filler was so bad, ratings dropped to the ground. So prepare your anuses: if the producers of Game of Thrones have to resort to filler, then it will be the beginning of the end for the show.
I'm half-expecting them to pull out a "musical" episode. Maybe also a "fantasy" one. No, wait...
Or they could re-tell the story in the style of Arrested Development:

[youtube]i8l4ZFIxB2I[/youtube]

real horrorshow
.
.
Posts: 1505
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:59 am
Location: In a band of brigands.

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33613

Post by real horrorshow »

Skep tickle wrote:2nd anniversary A+ forum fundraiser! Posted 1-2 days ago:
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6287

Hopefully for them, things will pick up soon:
Catchup Hell has it's advantages. Five days later:

katamari Damassi
.
.
Posts: 5429
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33614

Post by katamari Damassi »

James Caruthers wrote:
austin wrote:
Don't start me on Lovecraft. I LLLLLLLovecraft!!!! Which sucks since apparently PZ does too. My favorite stories are The Shadow out of Time and At the Mountains of Madness. I wish some big director would do a Lovecraft someday - Del Toro or something. There are a few pretty good B-movies though like Re-Animator. The Evil Dead series in a way is a great tribute to Lovecraft.
Re-Animator is probably my least favorite Lovecraft horror story. :( It's really not to my tastes and I think it's a bit lame to attempt to ape Mary Shelley when Lovecraft's horror universe is far more interesting. BUT it was his decision and it's not like he even knew how big his fiction would get after his death.

The Call of Cthulhu silent film made in 2010 or something was good. It doesn't leave out Lovecraft's racism. :dance: The film does feel like a movie that would have been made near the end of the silent picture era, and follows the book pretty well. Lovecraft probably has a stronger representation in video games and comics than movies. You've got Hellboy for Lovecraftian comics and that xbox Lovecraft video game.

I have probably mentioned my pet theory that a certain amount of racist tribal preference can cement the sensation of "other" in a horror story. Black Hawk Down is a perfect example of my point. Of course, if the "horror" derives solely from race fear or tribalistic fear, it will be ineffective if the person reading belongs to the out-group being described, so the writer needs to be about more than racist fears. :lol: And Lovecraft always is, so no problem there.

Dagon, Call of Cthulhu, The Whisperer in Darkness, The Rats in the Walls (my favorite!), Shadow Over Innsmouth, At the Mountains of Madness, Pickman's Model and The Picture in the House are the absolute creme of the crop. Furthermore, Lovecraft's prose on a mechanical level is ingenious and easy to digest, even if he tends towards the repetitious recycling of certain descriptive phrase clumps.
A lot of Lovecraft afficianadoes think Reanimator was HPL's attempt to mix comedy and horror. You guys ever listen to HPPodcraft.com?

Southern
.
.
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33615

Post by Southern »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:2wv1234567890qwertEfg=pppppwww.www.www.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo.cmo...................cmo.GGGggghf
So, like, are you going to share your drugs with us or what? Whatever you're on, I want some too. :lol:
Oh my God, Nerd of Redhead assimilated Lsuoma! THE PIT IS DOOMED! DOOMED!

[youtube]hkWIn3GE9Ec[/youtube]

James Caruthers
.
.
Posts: 6257
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33616

Post by James Caruthers »

didymos wrote: Girldick?
What a shame that Zinnia isn't in a relationship with anyone who can provide that dick.

One might even view this tweet as a form of infidelity. :lol:

Me, I prefer to assume that Zinnia simply has no filter at all. This medical condition is sometimes known as "being a child."

James Caruthers
.
.
Posts: 6257
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33617

Post by James Caruthers »

Southern wrote:
Opyt wrote:
Garlix wrote:Does anybody know what the TV show will do after they reach the end of the current series of books?

If GRRM kicks the bucket, they can just commission someone to write some kind of ending. But what if he just limps along at ~0.1 book/year? Will they just put the series on hold for a decade or something?
We call them filler. The Japanese have been doing it to us for YEARS with Anime.
And everytime they do this, the quality of the show goes downhill. Rurouni Kenshin actually was cancelled before the last manga arc was adapted because the filler was so bad, ratings dropped to the ground. So prepare your anuses: if the producers of Game of Thrones have to resort to filler, then it will be the beginning of the end for the show.
I never watched the last season of Rurouni Kenshin because fuck that. I never watched the Bleach anime or any anime that had filler arcs in it.

Former weeb snobs like myself often say "the manga is better," but what isn't understood about that position is that manga usually doesn't have any filler in it, and those DBZ power battles are a lot more tolerable when you can fast forward with your eyes (by turning pages) until the real shit starts happening.

Suet Cardigan
.
.
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:26 am
Location: England, a bastion of barbarism and cluelessness

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33618

Post by Suet Cardigan »

didymos wrote: Girldick?
So Zinnia puts the XY in sexy?

S/h/i/t's about as sexy as Last of the Summer Wine slash fiction.

James Caruthers
.
.
Posts: 6257
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33619

Post by James Caruthers »

Dick Strawkins wrote:http://i100.independent.co.uk/image/27060-1ra2ywd.jpg

It says "fact" so I guess it must be true.

By the way, I did a quick calculation based on the area of the "Actual false allegations" they show in this diagram, compared to the "All reported rapes" area, and it comes out as 0.23% of the area of the all reported rapes circle.
That is over ten times less than the figure of 3% they themselves quote from Rape Crisis Scotland (which is likely a major underestimate of the real figure, generally agreed to be at least 8% - and that's of the case that are reported to police, many rape allegations, like those of Myers and Thibeault, don't get that far.)
The diagram is pure propaganda.
Funny how the SJWs never address the issue of serial false accusers. Like with many crimes, I would expect the majority of false accusations to be from a minority of individuals. In other words, a single woman spinning 20 separate false accusations, rather than 20 different women with a single false accusation.

This might change in future as feminists attempt to redefine all sex as rape, but it seems likely to me that punishing false accusations more strictly and actually prosecuting proven false accusers might greatly reduce the number of false accusations.

Richard Dworkins
.
.
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33620

Post by Richard Dworkins »

Hunt wrote:Ok, that's just too pathetic. If they're still at $0 by the 25th *I'M* going to give the fuckers $5 just so they don't come in at zero. Someone remind me.
No.

I think it would be amusing to see exactly how much all there ranting and obnoxious "holier than thou" lunacy is worth to Atheism. I expect that someone will fling them some pity cash though. Not even one of their own has chucked in even a dollar? That's splendid.

Guestus Aurelius
.
.
Posts: 2118
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:14 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33621

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

OMG!

TiBo
.
.
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33622

Post by TiBo »

1st things 1st. I just couldn't resist to create an elevator moment of my own.
TedDahlberg wrote:I feel like a Victorian prude for thinking that that is something I would think and possibly say to someone who could provide said dick, but I wouldn't announce it to the world at large. Oh well.
I feel like I should put on my best skirt, make some placards and march towards the white house in protest of that sodomy soliciting application called "tinder". I'm just appalled by the sicksual morals of today's youth, appalled.

SkepticalCat
.
.
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:36 pm
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33623

Post by SkepticalCat »

HunnyBunny wrote:Hey, first post n all, awesome forum. New there had to be a light at the end of the sewer tunnel that is FTB.
Welcome HunnyBunny. Another basket of lynx for you:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lva02 ... o1_400.jpg

dogen
.
.
Posts: 2585
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33624

Post by dogen »

Guest wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Perspective alone does not excuse that.

And PZ? Use a damn coaster you pig.
That's a shoop right? Fake head, weird posture, superimposed on the couch, fake mug??

Please tell me that's a shoop.
Weird posture/superimposed on couch is because he's sitting on Oolon, who presumably is giving him a lingual colonic.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33625

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Old_ones wrote: I agree with you to a point. I agree that PZ was always abrasive and hostile, and I agree that he would be far less controversial if he had stayed focused on creationists and anti-science types instead of going after other atheists.

When you describe his more recent behavior as an "inconvenience", though, I infer that you don't think one target is necessarily better than the other. That is where I disagree. I think creationism is a serious problem, and I really appreciated the way PZ dealt with it. I don't think all targets are equally good targets, because I think a rational approach to the world is actually helpful to people, and bullshit can easily be harmful.

When PZ starts ripping up other atheists and skeptics and pushing dogma the way he has been, he is no longer helpful to the cause of promoting science and reason. At this point I think he is a huge liability to it, and I actually find that important. To me his transformation is the equivalent of going from practicing legitimate medicine to selling healing crystals and homeopathy. My main issue with a doctor who does that won't hinge on their bedside manner.
Regardless of the target, Myers'' aim has always been directed at his opponent personally, not the person's beliefs. Myers' must show everyone else to be stupid, which stems from his massive inferiority complex.

Myers is emotionally unbalanced and toxic. But so long as he was launching his ad homs at creationists, many atheists found it amusing. Nevertheless, ad hom is always a poor rhetorical approach, unproductive.

For truly devastatingly effective slams against the stupidity of religious beliefs and practices, just pick up the master's God Is Not Great.

rpguest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33626

Post by rpguest »

didymos wrote:
zinnia is almost precisely like a toddler that learned it got a reaction by saying a naughty word for the first time, and now you cant get the kid to stop shouting 'POOP POOP POOP' at the top of its lungs whenever youre out in public

dogen
.
.
Posts: 2585
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33627

Post by dogen »

Best evah!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:

dog puke
.
.
Posts: 1664
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33628

Post by dog puke »

dogen wrote:
Best evah!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:dance: :clap: :dance: :clap:

dogen
.
.
Posts: 2585
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33629

Post by dogen »

Hunt wrote:Ok, that's just too pathetic. If they're still at $0 by the 25th *I'M* going to give the fuckers $5 just so they don't come in at zero. Someone remind me.
If everyone on the 'Pit gave them $5, they would reach their target easily. And it would be a PR apocalypse. Just sayin'...

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33630

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I'm off for the weekend with my friends to plant that memorial tree I mentioned before. We may get drunk.
I recommend doing them in that order.
slanttree.jpg
(82.25 KiB) Downloaded 232 times

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33631

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Dick Strawkins wrote:http://i100.independent.co.uk/image/27060-1ra2ywd.jpg

It says "fact" so I guess it must be true.

By the way, I did a quick calculation based on the area of the "Actual false allegations" they show in this diagram, compared to the "All reported rapes" area, and it comes out as 0.23% of the area of the all reported rapes circle.
That is over ten times less than the figure of 3% they themselves quote from Rape Crisis Scotland (which is likely a major underestimate of the real figure, generally agreed to be at least 8% - and that's of the case that are reported to police, many rape allegations, like those of Myers and Thibeault, don't get that far.)
The diagram is pure propaganda.
They also managed to capture the distinctive (read; hideous), three-color-printing graphic style of the Warsaw Bloc c. 1958. How appropriate.

Angry_Drunk
.
.
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33632

Post by Angry_Drunk »

welch wrote:
Aneris wrote:Enable scroll finger, especially if you know my views on it (its more of a rehash for newcomers and lurkers)

Was PZ Myers always that way? What's different?

I wasn't around in ye olden days but have read a few things later of PZ Myers (and Pharyngula).
Well done, per usual.

I would add that while it may have played well within the atheist community, PZ really made atheists look like bitter little assholes who should be treated the way you'd treat any other obvious loon.

Dawkins had a great point in The God Delusion that I *think* a lot of people used as a justification: Religion should not have the exalted place in society it has, it is neither wrong, nor bad to criticise religion, and supporting things that reduce the political power of religion is not the same as suppressing the freedom of religion.

I think all of those points are awesome, but that still doesn't justify being raging jackasses to people ala PZ. It leads to really alienating people who maybe weren't hostile. It also leads to some pretty hypocritical shit, like the raging fury at being lumped in with Mao et al, but then lumping all theists in with the inquistion, pederast priests, and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Atheist get allll upset when theist accuse them of having ulterior motives every time they do anything as a group, but then dismiss the genuine acts of kindness and charity that a lot of theists do as "cover for religious recruitment".

Not all atheists do this, obviously, but the PZ lot, among others, are pretty fucking guilty of this.

I'm not saying never get angry, never get up front, but for fuck's sake, I don't care how much you love your thermometer, take it out every once in a fucking while. Maybe don't demonize people while complaining about being demonized. That kind of thing.
My own Peezpiphany came when he gleefully lauded one insane religionist for threatening to burn another bunch of insane religionists holy book in order to prove that their god had a bigger dick.

Way to miss the point there Paul.

TiBo
.
.
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33633

Post by TiBo »

dogen wrote:
Hunt wrote:Ok, that's just too pathetic. If they're still at $0 by the 25th *I'M* going to give the fuckers $5 just so they don't come in at zero. Someone remind me.
If everyone on the 'Pit gave them $5, they would reach their target easily. And it would be a PR apocalypse. Just sayin'...
I think $0.00 is a much clearer message. A good message.

Then again, I'm a bit disappointed by those who vocally supported these A+ muppets and who didn't give a dime yet although they were informed (at latest by me) about the fundraiser. We had them rounded up so neatly and that comfortable zwischenloesung is now at danger of falling away :x

katamari Damassi
.
.
Posts: 5429
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33634

Post by katamari Damassi »

James Caruthers wrote:
sinister wrote: Are you asking Southern?

Eva is very creative, but I'm not a fan.

Didn't watch FLCL.

You should watch Kino's Journey, Birdy the Mighty Decode, Redline and Boogiepop Phantom. Watch the last one over the course of maybe 3 days at most, and then watch it again when you finish so you can start to connect the threads. Unlike a lot of "mystery" anime, the answers are (mostly) there and the story is absolutely worth experiencing.

[youtube]hUWJU7lByAk[/youtube]

Dub or sub doesn't really matter on this one. This anime was a labor of love for all parties involved.

Like Southern, I enjoyed the Soul Society arc of Bleach, but I wouldn't recommend it on that basis. If you want a longer shounen type of anime (think DBZ for you non-anime people), try Hunter X Hunter, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure or Cromartie High School.

[youtube]HRdZgkkFSN8[/youtube]
I've tried to get into anime but I can't. I don't like the art style and find a lot of the animation to be eye pain inducing, and I don't know if it's bad translation/dubbing but I find the plots hard to follow. I like Satoshi Kon's stuff and some Miyazki-too cutesy for me-but I find the TV shows unwatchable. Except for Battling Seizure Robots.

welch
.
.
Posts: 9208
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:05 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33635

Post by welch »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Old_ones wrote: I agree with you to a point. I agree that PZ was always abrasive and hostile, and I agree that he would be far less controversial if he had stayed focused on creationists and anti-science types instead of going after other atheists.

When you describe his more recent behavior as an "inconvenience", though, I infer that you don't think one target is necessarily better than the other. That is where I disagree. I think creationism is a serious problem, and I really appreciated the way PZ dealt with it. I don't think all targets are equally good targets, because I think a rational approach to the world is actually helpful to people, and bullshit can easily be harmful.

When PZ starts ripping up other atheists and skeptics and pushing dogma the way he has been, he is no longer helpful to the cause of promoting science and reason. At this point I think he is a huge liability to it, and I actually find that important. To me his transformation is the equivalent of going from practicing legitimate medicine to selling healing crystals and homeopathy. My main issue with a doctor who does that won't hinge on their bedside manner.
Regardless of the target, Myers'' aim has always been directed at his opponent personally, not the person's beliefs. Myers' must show everyone else to be stupid, which stems from his massive inferiority complex.

Myers is emotionally unbalanced and toxic. But so long as he was launching his ad homs at creationists, many atheists found it amusing. Nevertheless, ad hom is always a poor rhetorical approach, unproductive.

For truly devastatingly effective slams against the stupidity of religious beliefs and practices, just pick up the master's God Is Not Great.
Myers copies the surface of people like Dawkins and Hitchens, but could never be arsed to really understand what they're doing.

welch
.
.
Posts: 9208
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:05 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33636

Post by welch »

katamari Damassi wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:
sinister wrote: Are you asking Southern?

Eva is very creative, but I'm not a fan.

Didn't watch FLCL.

You should watch Kino's Journey, Birdy the Mighty Decode, Redline and Boogiepop Phantom. Watch the last one over the course of maybe 3 days at most, and then watch it again when you finish so you can start to connect the threads. Unlike a lot of "mystery" anime, the answers are (mostly) there and the story is absolutely worth experiencing.

[youtube]hUWJU7lByAk[/youtube]

Dub or sub doesn't really matter on this one. This anime was a labor of love for all parties involved.

Like Southern, I enjoyed the Soul Society arc of Bleach, but I wouldn't recommend it on that basis. If you want a longer shounen type of anime (think DBZ for you non-anime people), try Hunter X Hunter, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure or Cromartie High School.

[youtube]HRdZgkkFSN8[/youtube]
I've tried to get into anime but I can't. I don't like the art style and find a lot of the animation to be eye pain inducing, and I don't know if it's bad translation/dubbing but I find the plots hard to follow. I like Satoshi Kon's stuff and some Miyazki-too cutesy for me-but I find the TV shows unwatchable. Except for Battling Seizure Robots.
I rather enjoy "Van Helsing Abridged". I think that subgenre, (<thing> abridged) has some really good comedy going in it. The Zelda abridged, Dragonball Z abridged, etc.

James Caruthers
.
.
Posts: 6257
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33637

Post by James Caruthers »

Boogiepop Phantom is very similar to Satoshi Kon's style. It's a horror story with science fiction elements.

If you like superhero cartoons and movies, or high-concept science fiction mixed with a superhero story and a romance, you should check out Birdy the Mighty Decode. I think the animation style is quite interesting and unique. OH and hey, Birdy is a "strong female character" who isn't just "MS MALE CHARACTER." But the fight scenes floored me. Superbly well directed, smoothly animated and original. Unlike superman cartoons/movies, they capture the feel of what a super-powered battle would be like. In fact, it turns out the "Man of Steel" guy was inspired by the Birdy anime. :|

Cromartie is a pure comedy, and it's very cleverly written.

Kino's Journey is about a Steersmanesque androgyne who travels on a talking motorcycle and discusses philosophy.

Redline is about futuristic high-speed racing on a planet where the military is trying to kill the racers.

IMO, most anime is shit, but the ones I recommended are good and even bad anime can be entertaining sometimes.

If you're just not feeling the urge, though, there's no shame in not bothering. Not All Anime Is Like That, but Enough Anime Is Like That. 8-)

Cocheese
.
.
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33638

Post by Cocheese »

Steersman wrote: Rather remarkable when one considers that that was written several thousand years ago. But, in any case, it’s part of the reason why I tend to agree with your later assertion that “Game Theory could solve ethical problems” while thinking that the “solution” is likely to be an approximation at best. And one we wouldn’t know how good it was until after we tried to implement it – which may, as they say, be somewhat problematic. Hence the need for some degree of “faith” – and that “fear and trembling”.
I don't see how you can make this work. In Game Theory, you assign probabilities and payoffs to different choices. Which means that one would need to solve ethical problems before they could even assign the payoffs. And around we go.

Old_ones
.
.
Posts: 2168
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:46 pm
Location: An hour's drive from Hell.

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33639

Post by Old_ones »

PZ Myers and the Banhammer; An analysis of the changes in The Great Poopyhead from 2007 to 2013
Old_ones

Introduction

Whether or not PZ Myers changed is largely a subjective judgement, but there is at least one metric that can be quantified; Banhammer frequency. This can be quantified because PZ studiously compiled a list of everyone he was banning from sometime in the spring of 2007 until sometime in the fall of 2013. Snapshots of his dungeon are available on the wayback machine for both the scienceblogs and the freethoughtblogs version of the site. I've decided to use this data to analyze PZ's banning habits, with the hypothesis that he has become more banhappy over time.

Methods

Snapshots of the dungeon were viewed at approximately 6 month intervals (solstice to solstice) using the wayback machine and the number of inmates in the dungeon were counted at each timepoint. Redundancies between the scienceblogs and FTB dungeons were ignored for the reason that I'm lazy and this isn't actually my thesis research. Banhammer frequency is defined as rate of banning (d(banhammer)/dt) which was calculated from a line of best fit using standard linear regression methods.

Results and discussion

Both the dungeons at scienceblogs and FTB grew at an approximately linear rate, although it can be noted from the data in figure 1 below that PZs rate of banning began increasing in the summer of 2010 and flattened significantly as the FTB site went live and the blog lost traffic. The FTB curve was very linear throughout its existance. The banhammer frequency at scienceblogs was calculated to be approximately 2 banned per month (R^2=0.973) while at FTB the banhammer frequency was 5 per month (R^2=0.989). A total inmates curve was constructed. This curve is approximate because some of the sampling dates for FTB and Scienceblogs were different, and in those cases the dates given are approximate values.

Potential caveats to this data are redundancies between the Sciblogs and FTB banning set (my non-systematic analysis of this variable is that most of the bans in the first data point for FTB are redundant, and the vast majority of the later bans are not). An additional caveat is that some of the bannings at the FTB site were the work of Chris Clarke.

You can argue that PZ was always too banhappy, but its pretty clear that PZ got more banhappy over time, as his banhammer frequency more than doubled between scienceblogs and FTB. There are a number of ways you can interpret this data, but it does seem to support the arguments of people who assert that people were banned less often for simple disagreement in the early pharyngula.

Conclusion/personal opinion on the matter

I conclude that PZ has become more censorious over time. I suspected this, because as time went on at that place it felt more an more like a bunker full of paranoid people, and less like a forum for debating and discussing scientific ideas. I have informally looked at the number of feminist posts which increased significantly from 2010 onward, and I would speculate that part of PZ's increase in censorship has to do with a need to protect feminist ideas by blocking dissent. I may decide to compile data on the frequency of feminist posts on the two blogs, however that would take some time and I may decide its not worth it.

Figure 1: Ban history of Scienceblog and FTB Pharyngula:
Attachments
Bannhammer chart.jpg
(51.83 KiB) Downloaded 211 times

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33640

Post by jet_lagg »

Cocheese wrote:
Steersman wrote: Rather remarkable when one considers that that was written several thousand years ago. But, in any case, it’s part of the reason why I tend to agree with your later assertion that “Game Theory could solve ethical problems” while thinking that the “solution” is likely to be an approximation at best. And one we wouldn’t know how good it was until after we tried to implement it – which may, as they say, be somewhat problematic. Hence the need for some degree of “faith” – and that “fear and trembling”.
I don't see how you can make this work. In Game Theory, you assign probabilities and payoffs to different choices. Which means that one would need to solve ethical problems before they could even assign the payoffs. And around we go.
I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. You just need to know what people want (which is something we can and do objectively measure). Once you've done this, and found the rational solution to the game, I would argue you've also found the ethical solution. True, additional information may come to light at a later date, showing we were incorrect, but that's the case with any field of knowledge.

And Steersman, I asked you a while back where you were from, but ended up not sticking around to see if you answered. I'm still curious if you don't mind sharing.

acathode
.
.
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:46 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33641

Post by acathode »

James Caruthers wrote:IMO, most anime is shit
All media forms suffer from the 95% crap rule, but for anime it's even worse, since anime is produced for either kids or teenagers (and/or for the sad moe/lolicon fanservice-starving otakus). It's a great deal easier to find good manga, since unlike anime there's a good deal of manga around that target broader adult demographics.

Tying into the previous fantasy discussion, anime is pretty much only getting the "young adults" stuff, they get the occasional Harry Potter, but most of it is going to be Twilight, Divergence, and all that other crap that causes brain cancer when read by people older than 18. Whereas for manga, that's where the Tolkien, Martins, Abercrombies, etc can be found.

some guy
.
.
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:05 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33642

Post by some guy »

jet_lagg wrote:
Cocheese wrote:
Steersman wrote: Rather remarkable when one considers that that was written several thousand years ago. But, in any case, it’s part of the reason why I tend to agree with your later assertion that “Game Theory could solve ethical problems” while thinking that the “solution” is likely to be an approximation at best. And one we wouldn’t know how good it was until after we tried to implement it – which may, as they say, be somewhat problematic. Hence the need for some degree of “faith” – and that “fear and trembling”.
I don't see how you can make this work. In Game Theory, you assign probabilities and payoffs to different choices. Which means that one would need to solve ethical problems before they could even assign the payoffs. And around we go.
I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. You just need to know what people want (which is something we can and do objectively measure). Once you've done this, and found the rational solution to the game, I would argue you've also found the ethical solution. True, additional information may come to light at a later date, showing we were incorrect, but that's the case with any field of knowledge...
But I think for many problems, "what people want" will be difficult to quantify, and even if you could. More importantly, for many situations it will vary greatly from individual to individual, across different societies, as well as a multitude of situational variables.

What's the net benefit/harm of pot smoking, spanking children, infanticide for dire economic reasons, killing one person to save some number of anothers, abortion for non-life threatening reasons, stealing to feed yourself, investing in yourself some amount vs your children, invading a country to overthrow a brutal regime, etc. Any number you come up with will reflect the biases/ethics/morality of the person assigning the number as they envision the situation. So while it might help you find what *you* personally should do given some scenario, the answer would remain personal to you.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33643

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Steersman wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Aristotle was a complete gonk.
Oh, bravely spoken :clap: :clap: :clap: :
Aristotle (/ˈærɪˌstɒtəl/;[1] Greek: Ἀριστοτέλης [aristotélɛːs], Aristotélēs; 384–322 BCE)[2] was a Greek philosopher and scientist born in Stagirus, northern Greece, in 384 BCE. His father, Nicomachus, died when Aristotle was a child, whereafter Proxenus of Atarneus became his guardian.[3] At eighteen, he joined Plato's Academy in Athens and remained there until the age of thirty-seven (c. 347 BCE). His writings cover many subjects – including physics, biology, zoology, metaphysics, logic, ethics, aesthetics, poetry, theater, music, rhetoric, linguistics, politics and government – and constitute the first comprehensive system of Western philosophy. Shortly after Plato died, Aristotle left Athens and, at the request of Philip of Macedon, tutored Alexander the Great between 356 and 323 BCE. According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "Aristotle was the first genuine scientist in history ... [and] every scientist is in his debt."[4]

....
Aristotle's views on physical science profoundly shaped medieval scholarship. Their influence extended into the Renaissance and were not replaced systematically until the Enlightenment and theories such as classical mechanics. Some of Aristotle's zoological observations were not confirmed or refuted until the 19th century.[examples needed] His works contain the earliest known formal study of logic, which was incorporated in the late 19th century into modern formal logic. ....
There is, no doubt, much of what he wrote that was superceded by later events. But I would say it would be rather hard to diminish his contributions or legacy ....
His views profoundly misled medieval scholarship, more like, setting back progress for centuries. Sure, the church liked his view that the heavens were made of different stuff than the earth. But they aren't. Fact is, Aristotle got every single thing wrong. He got inertia wrong, astronomy wrong, and had a sphere fetish. Spheres were 'perfect' so everything had to be a sphere.

His methodology was crap, the very antithesis of the scientific method. He'd just sit around the house all day, his thumb up his ass, and think about things. No careful observation, no experimentation. Compare Aristotle to Archimedes, who actually built shit that worked IRL. Aristotle also made useless, inane lists & classifications. Like, all animals can be divided into three parts: the front part, where the food comes in; the middle part, where the food is digested; and the end part, where the poop comes out. Wow, thanks, 'Stots, that clears up everything! Now we can put off inventing zoology for another millennia.

Plato was a dundering blockhead as well. The Republic reads like it was written by an eleven year-old.

Cocheese
.
.
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33644

Post by Cocheese »

jet_lagg wrote: I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. You just need to know what people want (which is something we can and do objectively measure). Once you've done this, and found the rational solution to the game, I would argue you've also found the ethical solution. True, additional information may come to light at a later date, showing we were incorrect, but that's the case with any field of knowledge.
In that case, all you're doing is adopting a consequentialist moral paradigm and tacking on game theory for a veneer of respectability.

welch
.
.
Posts: 9208
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:05 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33645

Post by welch »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Aristotle was a complete gonk.
Oh, bravely spoken :clap: :clap: :clap: :
Aristotle (/ˈærɪˌstɒtəl/;[1] Greek: Ἀριστοτέλης [aristotélɛːs], Aristotélēs; 384–322 BCE)[2] was a Greek philosopher and scientist born in Stagirus, northern Greece, in 384 BCE. His father, Nicomachus, died when Aristotle was a child, whereafter Proxenus of Atarneus became his guardian.[3] At eighteen, he joined Plato's Academy in Athens and remained there until the age of thirty-seven (c. 347 BCE). His writings cover many subjects – including physics, biology, zoology, metaphysics, logic, ethics, aesthetics, poetry, theater, music, rhetoric, linguistics, politics and government – and constitute the first comprehensive system of Western philosophy. Shortly after Plato died, Aristotle left Athens and, at the request of Philip of Macedon, tutored Alexander the Great between 356 and 323 BCE. According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "Aristotle was the first genuine scientist in history ... [and] every scientist is in his debt."[4]

....
Aristotle's views on physical science profoundly shaped medieval scholarship. Their influence extended into the Renaissance and were not replaced systematically until the Enlightenment and theories such as classical mechanics. Some of Aristotle's zoological observations were not confirmed or refuted until the 19th century.[examples needed] His works contain the earliest known formal study of logic, which was incorporated in the late 19th century into modern formal logic. ....
There is, no doubt, much of what he wrote that was superceded by later events. But I would say it would be rather hard to diminish his contributions or legacy ....
His views profoundly misled medieval scholarship, more like, setting back progress for centuries. Sure, the church liked his view that the heavens were made of different stuff than the earth. But they aren't. Fact is, Aristotle got every single thing wrong. He got inertia wrong, astronomy wrong, and had a sphere fetish. Spheres were 'perfect' so everything had to be a sphere.

His methodology was crap, the very antithesis of the scientific method. He'd just sit around the house all day, his thumb up his ass, and think about things. No careful observation, no experimentation. Compare Aristotle to Archimedes, who actually built shit that worked IRL. Aristotle also made useless, inane lists & classifications. Like, all animals can be divided into three parts: the front part, where the food comes in; the middle part, where the food is digested; and the end part, where the poop comes out. Wow, thanks, 'Stots, that clears up everything! Now we can put off inventing zoology for another millennia.

Plato was a dundering blockhead as well. The Republic reads like it was written by an eleven year-old.
Yes, yes, but were either of them the real writers behind Shakespeare?

Steersman
.
.
Posts: 10933
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33646

Post by Steersman »

jet_lagg wrote:
Cocheese wrote:
Steersman wrote: .... But, in any case, it’s part of the reason why I tend to agree with your later assertion that “Game Theory could solve ethical problems” while thinking that the “solution” is likely to be an approximation at best. ...
I don't see how you can make this work. In Game Theory, you assign probabilities and payoffs to different choices. Which means that one would need to solve ethical problems before they could even assign the payoffs. And around we go.
I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. ....

And Steersman, I asked you a while back where you were from, but ended up not sticking around to see if you answered. I'm still curious if you don't mind sharing.
Would you believe, the balcony? [punch-line for a joke about a guy sprawled across several theatre seats and who was mumbling, in an apparently incomprehensible foreign language, in response to a question about where he came from] :-)

I think I may have answered your question but if not, I was born and spent the first half-dozen years or so in Alberta (Canada) and Saskatchewan, and have spent most of the remaing 50-odd years in BC.

But, out of curiosity, why do you ask?

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33647

Post by Kirbmarc »

Fact is, Aristotle got every single thing wrong.

<snip>

Plato was a dundering blockhead as well.
[youtube]U_eZmEiyTo0[/youtube]

0:15. ;)

Dave
.
.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:03 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33648

Post by Dave »

Steersman wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: And Steersman, I asked you a while back where you were from, but ended up not sticking around to see if you answered. I'm still curious if you don't mind sharing.
Would you believe, the balcony?
At the risk of doxxing, I believe I have found a picture of the real Steersman:
http://www.fimfiction-static.net/images ... 1351128742

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33649

Post by jet_lagg »

some guy wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. You just need to know what people want (which is something we can and do objectively measure). Once you've done this, and found the rational solution to the game, I would argue you've also found the ethical solution. True, additional information may come to light at a later date, showing we were incorrect, but that's the case with any field of knowledge...
But I think for many problems, "what people want" will be difficult to quantify, and even if you could. More importantly, for many situations it will vary greatly from individual to individual, across different societies, as well as a multitude of situational variables.

What's the net benefit/harm of pot smoking, spanking children, infanticide for dire economic reasons, killing one person to save some number of anothers, abortion for non-life threatening reasons, stealing to feed yourself, investing in yourself some amount vs your children, invading a country to overthrow a brutal regime, etc. Any number you come up with will reflect the biases/ethics/morality of the person assigning the number as they envision the situation. So while it might help you find what *you* personally should do given some scenario, the answer would remain personal to you.
I don't think it would be especially hard to quantify what people want. We have a lot of the methods already in place within psychology. But yes, it would naturally vary from person to person, which is where the strength of Game Theory shows itself, demonstrating the most rational solution to a scenario with different, sometimes competing interests. It would be complex, sure, but so is medicine (to use the analogy Harris is fond of). The point is that I believe there are answers, and we could find them using scientific methods.

It wouldn't be perfect, just as medical science isn't perfect, but it would be more precise (and to my eyes, this is means better) than what we currently do.

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33650

Post by jet_lagg »

Steersman wrote:
I think I may have answered your question but if not, I was born and spent the first half-dozen years or so in Alberta (Canada) and Saskatchewan, and have spent most of the remaing 50-odd years in BC.

But, out of curiosity, why do you ask?
You're peculiar, and you reminded me of someone who was similarly peculiar. I was wondering if it was a regional thing (it's not).

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33651

Post by jet_lagg »

Cocheese wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: I don't think you need to solve the ethical problems before assigning payoffs. You just need to know what people want (which is something we can and do objectively measure). Once you've done this, and found the rational solution to the game, I would argue you've also found the ethical solution. True, additional information may come to light at a later date, showing we were incorrect, but that's the case with any field of knowledge.
In that case, all you're doing is adopting a consequentialist moral paradigm and tacking on game theory for a veneer of respectability.
Holy shit. You mean this is all built off of earlier thought? And here I thought I'd come up with something revolutionary, plucked it right out of the ether ;)

Steersman
.
.
Posts: 10933
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33652

Post by Steersman »

Dave wrote:
Steersman wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: And Steersman, I asked you a while back where you were from, but ended up not sticking around to see if you answered. I'm still curious if you don't mind sharing.
Would you believe, the balcony?
At the risk of doxxing, I believe I have found a picture of the real Steersman:
http://www.fimfiction-static.net/images ... 1351128742
:lol: Damn! Busted! :-)

Garlix

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33653

Post by Garlix »

jet_lagg wrote: What's the net benefit/harm of pot smoking, spanking children, infanticide for dire economic reasons, killing one person to save some number of anothers, abortion for non-life threatening reasons, stealing to feed yourself, investing in yourself some amount vs your children, invading a country to overthrow a brutal regime, etc. Any number you come up with will reflect the biases/ethics/morality of the person assigning the number as they envision the situation. So while it might help you find what *you* personally should do given some scenario, the answer would remain personal to you.
I don't think it would be especially hard to quantify what people want. We have a lot of the methods already in place within psychology. But yes, it would naturally vary from person to person, which is where the strength of Game Theory shows itself, demonstrating the most rational solution to a scenario with different, sometimes competing interests. It would be complex, sure, but so is medicine (to use the analogy Harris is fond of). The point is that I believe there are answers, and we could find them using scientific methods.
[/quote]

Hm.

What's the "rational" solution to a game? For a given player, it is the one that maximizes their own payoff. Hardly ethical, unless you include ethical considerations in the payoff matrix.

Are you talking about Nash equilibria? But an iron-fist dictatorship is a Nash equilibrium (if the dictator steals less money/food/power from the people, he would be worse off, and if the people rebel they get whacked).

If you're defining "rational" as the one that maximizes some kind of aggregate payoff median payoff for all players, then you've already introduced a definition of morality in your "rationality". You also run into the difficulty of choosing the "right" aggregate function. Median payoff? Total sum? Minimum across all players? Note: that's social-democracy, capitalism and communism respectively.

Steersman
.
.
Posts: 10933
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33654

Post by Steersman »

Cocheese wrote:
Steersman wrote: Rather remarkable when one considers that that was written several thousand years ago. But, in any case, it’s part of the reason why I tend to agree with your later assertion that “Game Theory could solve ethical problems” while thinking that the “solution” is likely to be an approximation at best. And one we wouldn’t know how good it was until after we tried to implement it – which may, as they say, be somewhat problematic. Hence the need for some degree of “faith” – and that “fear and trembling”.
I don't see how you can make this work. In Game Theory, you assign probabilities and payoffs to different choices. Which means that one would need to solve ethical problems before they could even assign the payoffs. And around we go.
That seems like it’s kind of missing the point about game-theory which is, to my mind, sort of a process of modeling a system and then performing some “what if?” analyses. Try-before-you buy sort of thing. The problematic point though, at least one of them, is that one frequently doesn’t really find out all of the problematic consequences until well after one has “bought” the solution. Colloquially, while love may be blind, marriage can be a real eye-opener.

But I think the best paradigmatic example is a game like chess: one mentally tries out the consequences of a particular, limited, set of choices to assess which one is most likely to meet a required goal before choosing one – and accepting the consequences which frequently turn out to be other than what one expected.

If you’re interested in some of the history of that perspective, and its elaboration, you might want to check out the book Emergence: From Chaos to Order by John H. Holland. But, in particular and relative to the question of what values we put on various outcomes and aspects, he describes in some detail the process of a computer learning how to play such games by changing the weights it applies to those various aspects based on feedback from the results of previous games.

Angry_Drunk
.
.
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33655

Post by Angry_Drunk »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Wow, thanks, 'Stots, that clears up everything!
I will now dedicate my life and fortune to the creation of a time machine for the sole purpose of traveling to ancient Greece, finding Aristotle, and hailing him, "What's up 'Stots!"

mikelf
.
.
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:34 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33656

Post by mikelf »


Steersman
.
.
Posts: 10933
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33657

Post by Steersman »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Also funny is when the horde embarrasses Little Paul...like when his friend the biologist showed up, and the horde declared he knew nothing of biology...wish I remembered to save a link.
Check out these posts:
first: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ment-76176
aftermath (1): http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ment-78697
Thank you sir. Always a gentleman.
De nada, and it gave me an opportunity to refresh my own memory of another “hour” that was anything but Pharyngula’s “finest” – not that there have been many of them.

But I’m a helper too, although, as with most things, there tends to be a spectrum in that group as well .... ;-)

Glen_Davidson

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33658

Post by Glen_Davidson »

I don't think that the SciAm response to Myers' latest debacle has been linked here, so:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/colli ... ing-badly/

Myers' glaring lack of self-awareness comes up:
Myers, true to form, could not recognize the sinkhole he created.

It’s a quirk of human nature that some people can only see when others are behaving contemptibly. Of course, lack of self-awareness is not unique to prominent atheist scientists. Still, I wonder if Dawkins, Myers, or Coyne could give me an evolutionary explanation for obtuseness?
Since they seem to have tilted toward SJWism and against Dawkins (my none-too-informed opinion), I thought it was good, not because it tells us much, but just that they went after the Peez. I suspect that they're overdoing on Dawkins yet (not that he doesn't have something of a tin ear), but I think on Peezus it's about right, noting the contemptibility without making him into a martyr for any but the professional martyr.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p

Cocheese
.
.
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33659

Post by Cocheese »

jet_lagg wrote: Holy shit. You mean this is all built off of earlier thought? And here I thought I'd come up with something revolutionary, plucked it right out of the ether ;)
I was hoping you had envisioned game theory as bringing something new and useful to moral thought, but I see my earlier suspicion was correct: you like the veneer of credibility that you imagine game theory provides.

another lurker
.
.
Posts: 4740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#33660

Post by another lurker »

If someone spends a lot of time buttressing their arguments with talk of ontology and teleology, does this mean that they are a fucking moron?

Locked