Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[John D]

Big Red gets a 1,000,000 score from me. Without her, where would I get my really good wank pictures?

Everyone will have a very different list. I score Sarkesian relatively high for the same reason.... It is the big round earrings that get me.

I like the 60-year-old-Church-Lady eyebrows. I just can't help staring at them and wondering what she thinks about them... I mean, does she really think that "St. Louis Arch" style of eyebrows works? Is it a Canadian thing? Along with her plaid shirts and hoop earrings that could double as rabbit snares?

Yes... I know. I am ashamed of my feelings. I wear a hair shirt and flail myself five time a day. I am weak.

[jugheadnaut]

James Caruthers said (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 61#p203261):

Does anyone think the FTBloggers will be willing to give enough ground to put the ideological clash behind them?

In general, I do not think they will, particularly in regard to the FC(n); however, as has been the case before, I would feel no surprise to see the occasional traitor leaving the wolf pack for cleaner, safer, saner grounds.

I'm betting Christina Rad is next. She's too smart for this group. Her anti-Jaclyn Glenn video was shit but still civil, and if Jaclyn Glenn is to be believed they're still friendly. If so, Rad must not be happy with Glenn's subsequent treatment on FTB.

And surely she realizes her Glenn video was forced and not anywhere near her usual caliber of work. If so, she knows that staying with FTB will entail more such mediocrity.

Aron Ra is a possibility, too, if he can figure out a way to do it while maintaining domestic bliss with his wildebeest wife.

[Old_ones]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

Here is what a Ph.D. in psychology has to say on the issue:

Although the MBTI is based on Jungian theory, it was really Isabel Myers’ interpretation of that theory that lies beneath the test’s construction. For example, in Jung’s theory, there is no “judging-perception” dimension (J vs. P), that was a creation of Myers and Briggs. So, there are problems with both the theory and the construction of the MBTI. Unfortunately, Myers and Briggs were not very good at test construction (i.e., psychometrics).

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cut ... iggs-types

I haven't read a ton on the issue, but most of the article I've read that were written about someone who seemed to know what they were talking about came to similar conclusions. The author of the article above says he thinks MBTI is useful for "self-reflection" but not a whole lot more than that.

Personally I think MBTI is fun, but I don't take it very seriously either.

[Linus]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

I don't think that comparison holds. Astrology profiles are written to be very vague and elastic, not to mention flattering, so it's easy for people to agree with the descriptions. They use very similar techniques as cold reading. Myers-Briggs profiles have much more specificity and tend to be balanced rather than flattering.

It's not a comparison so much as a reason to be skeptical of finding Myers-Briggs impressive due to "this fits me really well" and/or "others say it fits them really well" type evidence. Obviously it's better than astrology.

There's no way a strong INTP would look at a profile that differs by two categories and think it describes them.

This may be true. If you make it clear in your answers that you are more inclined toward abstract thinking than sensory details, for example, and you read a type profile that says "You live in the world of sensation possibilities. You are keenly in tune with the way things look, taste, sound, feel and smell." then of course you wont think it fits well, but that's not very impressive either. The real test is over the aspects of the description that don't relate so directly to the questions.

[jet_lagg]

Alright, I'll imagine the UN, or the US for that matter, were the allegorical police in this situation. Then insert the sentence "Silva complains to a police officer, who approaches you and tells you he deplores your actions, and then walks away". The situation is then the same.

And you've just perfectly summarized my feelings about the UN ;)

[welch]

INTX.

INFP

INXS

[youtube]PrZZfaDp02o[/youtube]

[youtube]hv_zJrO_ptk[/youtube]

[jet_lagg]

I'll argue there's merit to it. That a fight is one-sided matters. As an analogy, if I take a wild swing at Anderson Silva, and he dodges it with effortless grace, it would be kind of fucked up for him to then break my arms and legs in retaliation.

nonsense. It would be kind of stupid for you to take a swing at someone when you're so unprepared for the possible consequences. Don't want to get your ass severely beaten in a fight? don't get in fights.

You miss the nuance. It was a discussion about proportion, not whether or not any kind of retaliation was warranted at all. But your opinion is noted. It's okay to hospitalize someone who never posed any meaningful threat to you, because they started it. I suspect a number of people here would disagree with you.

[jugheadnaut]

Everyone will have a very different list. I score Sarkesian relatively high for the same reason.... It is the big round earrings that get me.

I like the 60-year-old-Church-Lady eyebrows. I just can't help staring at them and wondering what she thinks about them... I mean, does she really think that "St. Louis Arch" style of eyebrows works? Is it a Canadian thing? Along with her plaid shirts and hoop earrings that could double as rabbit snares?

Yes... I know. I am ashamed of my feelings. I wear a hair shirt and flail myself five time a day. I am weak.

I have to admit I have something for Sarkeesian, too, despite her annoying robotic presentation style and she's such a clear cut case of someone who fits facts to her thesis rather than the other way around. I had a dream a few weeks ago where she was my girlfriend and I was very, very gently trying to explain to her why she was mostly wrong about things while she pouted sexily. I felt kind of squicky when I woke up.

[James Caruthers]

James Caruthers said (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 61#p203261):

Does anyone think the FTBloggers will be willing to give enough ground to put the ideological clash behind them?

In general, I do not think they will, particularly in regard to the FC(n); however, as has been the case before, I would feel no surprise to see the occasional traitor leaving the wolf pack for cleaner, safer, saner grounds.

I'm betting Christina Rad is next. She's too smart for this group. Her anti-Jaclyn Glenn video was shit but still civil, and if Jaclyn Glenn is to be believed they're still friendly. If so, Rad must not be happy with Glenn's subsequent treatment on FTB.

And surely she realizes her Glenn video was forced and not anywhere near her usual caliber of work. If so, she knows that staying with FTB will entail more such mediocrity.

Aron Ra is a possibility, too, if he can figure out a way to do it while maintaining domestic bliss with his wildebeest wife.

I think Dillahunty will jump ship before Aron does.

[John D]

I have to admit I have something for Sarkeesian, too, despite her annoying robotic presentation style and she's such a clear cut case of someone who fits facts to her thesis rather than the other way around. I had a dream a few weeks ago where she was my girlfriend and I was very, very gently trying to explain to her why she was mostly wrong about things while she pouted sexily. I felt kind of squicky when I woke up.

I haven't had a wet dream in years. They tend to become less frequent as men get older.

[Aneris]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

As pointed out in the introduction, you have to be aware of Barnum Statements (Forer Effect).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_statements

The astrology experiment you meant is re-enacted here by Derren Brown
[youtube]haP7Ys9ocTk[/youtube]

You can falsify that by making a test with people, then read them a wrong profile and see how much approval they give. If they somehow (and better yet, thirds) gravitate towards a type, which is also the "correct" type according to the test, then I would think that the test works. But the tricky thing is that such tests ask specific items, which can be played back in the result. Then they could give the impression the profile fits and is specific, when all the fitting elements are basically taken from the answers, whereas the "deeper" explanations could be made up of Barnum-style statements. You would get the illusion of an accurate type, but which is in essence meaningless as it only mirrors back what the person put into the answers.

[jugheadnaut]

I'll argue there's merit to it. That a fight is one-sided matters. As an analogy, if I take a wild swing at Anderson Silva, and he dodges it with effortless grace, it would be kind of fucked up for him to then break my arms and legs in retaliation.

nonsense. It would be kind of stupid for you to take a swing at someone when you're so unprepared for the possible consequences. Don't want to get your ass severely beaten in a fight? don't get in fights.

You miss the nuance. It was a discussion about proportion, not whether or not any kind of retaliation was warranted at all. But your opinion is noted. It's okay to hospitalize someone who never posed any meaningful threat to you, because they started it. I suspect a number of people here would disagree with you.

But you never answered the main counterargument to your analogy. Should Anderson Silva be limited only to the resources that you also possess when defending himself, or can he use his most effective weapons despite the fact you don't have them?

Also, your analogy really only demonstrates that a disproportionate response is possible, which no one disputes. You made no effort to actually tie it in any serious way to the Israel/Hamas situation, as I think my 'improvement' did. A huge problem in your analogy is that Silva's actions are just revenge, as you're not a threat to do him any further damage, while in the case of Israel, they've been receiving rocket fire for months, which then increased with the latest crisis. Their goal isn't revenge, it's to stop the rockets from continuing.

[free thoughtpolice]

Love Joy Feminism takes a swipe at Dawkins..
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... -rape.html

I think she makes some interesting points...

Argument from anecdote. Sloppy thinking. Personal attacks and jackeling. Lost interest before I was half-way done.

Just another Grade D blogger trying to score points by deliberately or otherwise misunderstanding Dawkins and thinking it elevates their prestige. It reminds of schoolkids jumping on the bandwagon and dissing the nerd kid so they will fit in better with the cool crowd.
This is where I stopped reading:

I am very uncomfortable any time someone appeals to “logic and reason” and dismisses “emotion” as a way to silence critics. It ignores the fact that emotion matters—and means something. It also ignores the fact that we are people, not computers or robots. Honestly, the fact that privileged groups tend to get a logic pass while marginalized groups are constantly accused of being “emotional” should be enough reason to question this bizarre dichotomy.

At least she admits to not valuing logic or reason but then dishonestly has to claim it's about attempting to silence people and "privilege".
Just recycling the same BS SJW talking points.

[jugheadnaut]

I have to admit I have something for Sarkeesian, too, despite her annoying robotic presentation style and she's such a clear cut case of someone who fits facts to her thesis rather than the other way around. I had a dream a few weeks ago where she was my girlfriend and I was very, very gently trying to explain to her why she was mostly wrong about things while she pouted sexily. I felt kind of squicky when I woke up.

I haven't had a wet dream in years. They tend to become less frequent as men get older.

While the sound of 'squicky' may imply a wet dream, I just meant I was ashamed of having that dream.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

As pointed out in the introduction, you have to be aware of Barnum Statements (Forer Effect).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_statements

The astrology experiment you meant is re-enacted here by Derren Brown
[youtube]haP7Ys9ocTk[/youtube]

You can falsify that by making a test with people, then read them a wrong profile and see how much approval they give. If they somehow (and better yet, thirds) gravitate towards a type, which is also the "correct" type according to the test, then I would think that the test works. But the tricky thing is that such tests ask specific items, which can be played back in the result. Then they could give the impression the profile fits and is specific, when all the fitting elements are basically taken from the answers, whereas the "deeper" explanations could be made up of Barnum-style statements. You would get the illusion of an accurate type, but which is in essence meaningless as it only mirrors back what the person put into the answers.

Myers Briggs is a Barnum statement generator, nothing more

I have taken it half a dozen times in the past and filled it in as a fictional character, Patrick Bateman the last time. And every time the person or people giving the test have thought it was a very close match to my personality ... Even though every time was a different character (Donald Duck and Mr T were two previous examples) and every outcome was different

[Bourne Skeptic]

Has anyone else read this?

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/07/are- ... -its-face/

[John D]

I have to admit I have something for Sarkeesian, too, despite her annoying robotic presentation style and she's such a clear cut case of someone who fits facts to her thesis rather than the other way around. I had a dream a few weeks ago where she was my girlfriend and I was very, very gently trying to explain to her why she was mostly wrong about things while she pouted sexily. I felt kind of squicky when I woke up.

I haven't had a wet dream in years. They tend to become less frequent as men get older.

While the sound of 'squicky' may imply a wet dream, I just meant I was ashamed of having that dream.

It was a joke man! Do I need to use an emoticon? :lol:

[windy]

There's also a poster named Alice who chastizes the commenters for anti-woman sentiment at RD.net (alone among all sites) but then it turns out she was last on the site several years ago, & agrees one can't always tell gender by user name. The latest posts are her saying she understood RW's post-elevator comments, "It is terrifying to be alone with a male stranger" and another poster asking her whether she would find "It is terrifying to be alone with a black stranger" to be a problematic sentence.

:lol:

Alice also seems to think that the joint statement was directed at male commenters on RD.net:

Mr pickwick, congratulations to Mr Dawkins for recognising there was a gender split I which both sides were to blame. And for recognising that in not condemning the rape threats he was viewed, as Muslims who do not condemn terrorism, as being somehow ok with such threats.

Continue with language like that that ignores this sides role in the problem and working together will fail.

For the record I have never actually come across any sexist comments about lovely boobies on PZs site. Nor Jeryy Coynes. I have never felt like a second class citizen there either.

It is a problem with this site. It is this site that has stepped in the biggest s..t. It’s climbing out but refusal to acknowledge there was a problem is stupid.

:popcorn:

Earlier she mentioned some examples of the terrible sexism she witnessed:

I visited during the non protest of someone called Amina Tyler. This was the only site devoting so much time to Amina. For most women that was not a protest and she was not seen as a protestor. She was seen as a silly girl who should be protected from harm, but not lauded I any way. I saw all the women objectors shouted down and their objections belittled by the majority of males. Including Richard Dawkins.

It's sexist when men DON'T see a woman as a silly girl! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[jugheadnaut]

I haven't had a wet dream in years. They tend to become less frequent as men get older.

While the sound of 'squicky' may imply a wet dream, I just meant I was ashamed of having that dream.

It was a joke man! Do I need to use an emoticon? :lol:

I think I've well-demonstrated in the past that, yes, I frequently need emoticons. It's an INTP thing. :)

[Dick Strawkins]

I have to admit I have something for Sarkeesian, too, despite her annoying robotic presentation style and she's such a clear cut case of someone who fits facts to her thesis rather than the other way around. I had a dream a few weeks ago where she was my girlfriend and I was very, very gently trying to explain to her why she was mostly wrong about things while she pouted sexily. I felt kind of squicky when I woke up.

I haven't had a wet dream in years. They tend to become less frequent as men get older.

We become so unnattractive to women as we hit middle age, even the imaginary ones don't want to fuck us!
:(

[rpguest]

INTX.

INFP

ESXi

so you have a virtual personality?

[jugheadnaut]

Has anyone else read this?

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/07/are- ... -its-face/

Go back about six pages. It's been a major topic of conversation.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Well, let me give an example that doesn't stretch your analogy. You see Anderson Silva and decide to shoot spitballs at him. He warns you to stop but you don't. For the sake of the analogy, the police can't get involved, since there's nothing analogous to police in the Israel/Hamas situation. He comes up to you and puts you in a very painful armbar and tells you he'll release it if you promise not to do it anymore. He warns you that if you do, he'll dislocate your elbow. Is he guilty of disproportional force? Or should he be limited to shooting spitballs back at you?

Well, the act would be illegal in America, and I agree it should be. He has other options, like filing a restraining order against me, which the police then could enforce. You did insert the no police condition, but I'd argue American and the UN are somewhat analogous to the police. We could quibble endlessly, about the effectiveness and ability to act of those "police", but that's where I'd have to bow out of the conversation and let someone with more expertise take over. As it stands, I kind of agree with John D.

The Palestinians and Israelis will not stop fighting until one side or the other is wiped out. The Israelis are making the more rapid progress on this and are moving toward this bit by bit every time they make a new settlement. I just wish they would get this killing over with so I can go back to watching Andy Griffith re-runs. There is no two-state solution. There is only a one state solution where Israel eventually beats down every last Palestinian and all the land is settled. Then the Israelis will set up low rent shitty flats for the Palestinians and hire them to collect the garbage and rake the gravel streets. My real complaint is that this inevitable result is taking far to long. It is like watching for the inevitable bankruptcy of Detroit for forty years.

Except that I don't think the Palestinians would stop fighting even after their state had been wiped off the earth. Maybe if the Israelis sent a massive occupying force, put up with the inevitable resistance and bombings for 30 years while the developing the infrastructure of the state, educating children, ensuring a good economy with lots of jobs is waiting for them at the other end, you would end up with a situation where the average Palestinian was about as sympathetic to Hamas as we are to the mob.

A crude weapon kills just as effectively as a sophisticated weapon given enough opportunity. The Israeli choice is simple, stop the rockets or Israelis die. If there was a cleaner way to stop the rockets they would be doing it. UN or US troops would face the same scenario, only more Israelis would be dead by the time they'd dithered to a half-arsed response. You can't really develop infrastructure and an economy in a war zone. The bloodshed and destruction would be epic.

The Israeli response is not disproportional. It is the only practical way of stopping the rockets and the rockets are still coming. They are doing no more than they have to to protect themselves.

[jet_lagg]

But you never answered the main counterargument to your analogy. Should Anderson Silva be limited only to the resources that you also possess when defending himself, or can he use his most effective weapons despite the fact you don't have them?

Also, your analogy really only demonstrates that a disproportionate response is possible, which no one disputes. You made no effort to actually tie it in any serious way to the Israel/Hamas situation, as I think my 'improvement' did. A huge problem in your analogy is that Silva's actions are just revenge, as you're not a threat to do him any further damage, while in the case of Israel, they've been receiving rocket fire for months, which then increased with the latest crisis. Their goal isn't revenge, it's to stop the rockets from continuing.

Well, actually it did seem that some were disputing the whole disproportionate response concept. That's what initiated my first comment.

Anyway, I disagree (obviously) that I made no serious effort to tie the analogy to the Israel/Hamas situation. If it seemed that way, it could have been because I thought the parallels were clear. When you have something like the Iron Dome, rocket attacks become analogous to me ineffectually swinging at Silva. Additionally, as I've been hinting at, I don't see how Israel's actions are going to stop rockets in the long term. All I see is an endless cycle of violence, and thus Israel's actions start to look a lot more like vengeance than self defense. Those children on the beach will be remembered and used as justification for future rockets. I should have explained further when I said your likening the UN to an ineffectual cop was spot on. My preferred solution (to keep up with the metaphor) is to find a way to make the cop effectual, rather than for Silva to take things into his own hands. I think I've also made it clear that I'd have to leave the details of policy up to someone with far more expertise.

[sinister]

There's also a poster named Alice who chastizes the commenters for anti-woman sentiment at RD.net (alone among all sites) but then it turns out she was last on the site several years ago, & agrees one can't always tell gender by user name. The latest posts are her saying she understood RW's post-elevator comments, "It is terrifying to be alone with a male stranger" and another poster asking her whether she would find "It is terrifying to be alone with a black stranger" to be a problematic sentence.

:lol:

Alice also seems to think that the joint statement was directed at male commenters on RD.net:

Mr pickwick, congratulations to Mr Dawkins for recognising there was a gender split I which both sides were to blame. And for recognising that in not condemning the rape threats he was viewed, as Muslims who do not condemn terrorism, as being somehow ok with such threats.

Continue with language like that that ignores this sides role in the problem and working together will fail.

For the record I have never actually come across any sexist comments about lovely boobies on PZs site. Nor Jeryy Coynes. I have never felt like a second class citizen there either.

It is a problem with this site. It is this site that has stepped in the biggest s..t. It’s climbing out but refusal to acknowledge there was a problem is stupid.

:popcorn:

Earlier she mentioned some examples of the terrible sexism she witnessed:

I visited during the non protest of someone called Amina Tyler. This was the only site devoting so much time to Amina. For most women that was not a protest and she was not seen as a protestor. She was seen as a silly girl who should be protected from harm, but not lauded I any way. I saw all the women objectors shouted down and their objections belittled by the majority of males. Including Richard Dawkins.

It's sexist when men DON'T see a woman as a silly girl! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You just can't win. These people want to dictate how people react based on how they fell, and they don't agree even in that. WTF is the desired endgame here?

[jet_lagg]

You can't really develop infrastructure and an economy in a war zone. The bloodshed and destruction would be epic.

It wouldn't be a war zone. It would be an occupied zone, which I believe history shows you can build infrastructure and economy in.

The Israeli response is not disproportional. It is the only practical way of stopping the rockets and the rockets are still coming. They are doing no more than they have to to protect themselves.

I disagree, for the reasons already stated. And you seem to be overstating the case with the rockets. Two people have been killed to date. I don't have any traffic fatality stats for Israel in front of me right now, but I'm certain the country's own highways are more dangerous than Palestine.

[JackSkeptic]

....
Btw, would anyone recommend a particularly good cd/dvd/something featuring that kind of chanting?

This was really popular, to the point of making some in-roads into pop culture, 20 years ago and is still in circulation:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... SY450_.jpg

When I was raid leader in WOW I had the raid team listen to this several times.

[youtube]717CoVJ687M[/youtube]

[another lurker]

FFS, how many of you were/are raid leaders in WoW??

[TiBo]

I think it speaks in their favor that they're calling him out. I can understand his grievance. After those children were killed on the beach, I went on several lengthy rants against my acquaintances, who I saw as gleefully pro-Israel, not taking time to really weigh the costs of the war. Of course, after reflecting on that cost, how can you determine if it's worth it without cold, hard logic? When people refuse to even discuss what a child's life is worth, I actually see them as failing to accept a moral responsibility that we all have.

This is not hard. I could very easily come up with an estimate for the relative value of people and animals.

Nigerian dog = .00003
Nigerian = 1
Palestinian = 2
American dog = 2
Israeli = 20
A friends dog = 200
A friends family member = 20,000
My Cousins = 500,000
My siblings and parents = 10,000,000,000
My wife = 500,000,000,000
My kids = 700,000,000,000

This is a rough estimate... for what it is worth.

You think very lowly of dogs. I don't like you.

But in all seriousness, why is it so hard to accept that there occasions where you don't get the choice to do the "right thing" ?

- Do you accept the bombings of Dresden and Hamburg as a neccessary event to defeat Nazi Germany?
- Do you accept the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a neccessary event to defeat fascist Japan?
- If you do, in what way do you think is the Israel/Palestine conflict any different ?

[spiffigt]

Aron Ra is a possibility, too, if he can figure out a way to do it while maintaining domestic bliss with his wildebeest wife.

I think Dillahunty will jump ship before Aron does.

Agreed. I'm not going to say that Aron will "go down with the ship" but it would seem that he sits comfortably in the seat he has sat down in.
Dillahunty don't want to leave but will if/when he has been ridiculed and pushed from within FtB a few more times.

At least that is my analysis.

[Pagancat]

All this talk of fantasising about feminist women is giving me confusing thoughts. All I can think of is Chanty Binx on top of me screaming "shut the fuck up". I feel so wrong.

[youtube]HuMfb4syEHA[/youtube]

[deLurch]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

Yeah, my understanding is that the Myers-Briggs stuff was acknowledged to be pretty shaky. Ya'll are lapping up horoscopes. Those careers they told you would be good at as a result of Myers-Briggs testing was complete bullshit too.

[Brive1987]

Darwin's:

They are afraid – and I promise you I am not exaggerating – of witch-hunts: hunts for latter day blasphemers by latter day Inquisitions and latter day incarnations of Orwell’s Thought Police.

And I thought my effort was satire by exaggerate parody.

Apparently not. It's already time to wheel it out again.

[youtube]xsBomMsgtLE[/youtube]


High def:

[Brive1987]

Dawkins. Need coffee. Now.

[Tribble]

FFS, how many of you were/are raid leaders in WoW??

LOTRO. Was a WvW Commander in GW2, too.

[TiBo]

Has anyone stopped to answer the question: just who are all these skeptics (sic) who want surlyramics of their astrology sign?

The astrology part is less worrisome than paying for surlyramics.

In some way... the first time I took a close look at pictures of "Surlyramics", I asked myself the following set of questions.

- "What would have to happen for me to wear something like this in public?" .. I couldn't answer.
- "How cheap would these have to be so I'd consider buying one of them (as a gift?)" .. I couldn't answer.
- "What meaning and purpose is connected to owning one of these things?" .. I couldn't answer.
- "What meaning and purpose is connected to making these things?" .. I couldn't answer.

While I didn't have the mental power to fruitfully process "Surlyramics" on an intellectual level, I realised that, all the time, images were floating in my head ... camp fire, noble savage, garbage dump, shrubbery, mouth punch, mongolism, and verbiage.

So maybe one can only truly enjoy Surlyramics by freely associating words, much like pretentious wine lovers do.

[Gumby]

Brive, hadn't seen that video before. Great job.

[Pitchguest]

....
Btw, would anyone recommend a particularly good cd/dvd/something featuring that kind of chanting?

This was really popular, to the point of making some in-roads into pop culture, 20 years ago and is still in circulation:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... SY450_.jpg

When I was raid leader in WOW I had the raid team listen to this several times.

[youtube]717CoVJ687M[/youtube]

Ha! Shade of Aran. Good times. For the first five or so, after that it's a real pisser. Also, I used to be a raid leader, too. Vanilla WoW.

[jugheadnaut]

But you never answered the main counterargument to your analogy. Should Anderson Silva be limited only to the resources that you also possess when defending himself, or can he use his most effective weapons despite the fact you don't have them?

Also, your analogy really only demonstrates that a disproportionate response is possible, which no one disputes. You made no effort to actually tie it in any serious way to the Israel/Hamas situation, as I think my 'improvement' did. A huge problem in your analogy is that Silva's actions are just revenge, as you're not a threat to do him any further damage, while in the case of Israel, they've been receiving rocket fire for months, which then increased with the latest crisis. Their goal isn't revenge, it's to stop the rockets from continuing.

Well, actually it did seem that some were disputing the whole disproportionate response concept. That's what initiated my first comment.

Come on, it was obvious we were describing disproportionate response in the context of the Israel-Hamas situation. Who could possibly think there was no such thing as disproportionate response in any situation?

Anyway, I disagree (obviously) that I made no serious effort to tie the analogy to the Israel/Hamas situation. If it seemed that way, it could have been because I thought the parallels were clear. When you have something like the Iron Dome, rocket attacks become analogous to me ineffectually swinging at Silva.

The only ways that your analogy fits is that one side is much stronger than the other and the weaker side started it. Equating the Hamas rockets to missed punches is badly off the mark. The rockets are a major hazard. Iron Dome isn't guaranteed to take them down, so large numbers of people frequently have to make a dash for shelters. At least one Israeli has been killed, and more have been killed on previous occasions. There's property damage. And Iron Dome is obscenely expensive, especially for a small country like Israel. Every time Hamas puts up a $1000 piece of junk, Israel has to respond with a $20,000 missile fired from a $50 million battery. Clearly, it's not tolerable and Israel has a right to stop it. And they have every right to use their best weapons available to do so, whether Hamas has the same or not. And while Israel's response has been withering, it's not in any way analogous to 'breaking every bone in my body'. And, as I mentioned previously, there's nothing in your analogy about a desire to continue to try and hit Silva, so his response is just revenge. Not at all true in this situation.

Additionally, as I've been hinting at, I don't see how Israel's actions are going to stop rockets in the long term. All I see is an endless cycle of violence, and thus Israel's actions start to look a lot more like vengeance than self defense. Those children on the beach will be remembered and used as justification for future rockets. I should have explained further when I said your likening the UN to an ineffectual cop was spot on. My preferred solution (to keep up with the metaphor) is to find a way to make the cop effectual, rather than for Silva to take things into his own hands. I think I've also made it clear that I'd have to leave the details of policy up to someone with far more expertise.

I think there's way too many unknowns for Israel to focus on the long term right now. In the short and medium term, if the tunnels are destroyed, there will be far fewer rockets fired. If Hamas leaders have to worry about being personally targeted and their homes destroyed in exchange for the small amount of damage they're doing Israel, there may be fewer rockets fired. If Hamas fighters see what they're up against and become demoralized (as has been reportedly taking place), Hamas will be weakened and there may be fewer rockets fired. And if the Palestinian people are dismayed by the results of Hamas radicalism and militarism, Hamas may be weakened and there may be fewer rockets fired. In the long-run, hopefully there will be a better environment for a stable peace. But, yes, it's possible this will just go down as another cycle of violence and eventually it will get as bad or worse again.

As far as the world police thing goes, not going to happen. And that's almost certainly a good thing.

[TiBo]

On the other hand, if you were firing rockets at him and trying to tunnel into his back yard and you had been repeatedly swinging at him and trying to procure weapons to attack him with do you think he should just do nothing?

Thank you for demonstrating that analogies fail when pushed to their extreme ;) ...

Well, let me give an example that doesn't stretch your analogy...

I think you can solve this issue much more easily.

1. Ask an "Israel critic", if harsh military strikes are a justified response to rather inept terror attacks by Palestinians.
2. If the answer contains anything like "escalation" or "spiral of violence", slap the person in the face.
3. If the person tries to get back at you, explain calmly that such behaviour only hardens the fronts between the both of you.
4. As soon as the person lets go of you, give him/her another slap in the face.
5. Repeat steps 3 & 4 until the lesson has been learned.

[Gumby]

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[TiBo]

btw can some mod shove this shit over to
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=247
pls

[Opyt]

TiBo:
I've heard arguments that the second Atom Bomb wasn't necessary; but it's not like I can go back in time and tell them to stop to see what happens.

I wonder if Cats clock in at negatives for John D.

[Gumby]

btw can some mod shove this shit over to
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=247
pls

As long as the discussion doesn't start to monopolize the main thread, I see no reason to move it. If those who are keen on this discussion want hash this out at length, then you should just go over there and carry on.

[Za-zen]

Anyone who acts as an apologist for the Israeli massacre of children is a cunt. Anyone who proffers the Israeli bullshit propaganda narrative about sub human terrorists using human shields as an excuse for the warcrimes of the Israeli fascist state is a double cunt, grasping at staws to justify the unjustifiable.

Israel is a cunt. And Israel will pay in blood for this. not today or tomorrow (except for their soldiers, and fuck them, murderous bastards). But the US will pay as well, know that. The US is enabling, funding arming Israel to commit this atrocity, it is complicit, and it will pay.

[jugheadnaut]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

Yeah, my understanding is that the Myers-Briggs stuff was acknowledged to be pretty shaky. Ya'll are lapping up horoscopes. Those careers they told you would be good at as a result of Myers-Briggs testing was complete bullshit too.

I think comparing MB to horoscopes is completely without merit. If I ran that experiment here with an ESFJ profile, there would be a thundering consensus that it doesn't describe them at all. Compare an astrology profile:

http://my.horoscope.com/astrology/horos ... arius.html

to an MB profile:

http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

I thought about just putting two up and seeing if you could tell which is which, but it would be too obvious. Astrology profiles are short and vague. MB profiles are long and specific.

Doesn't it impress you at all that of the 20 or so people here who gave their MB type, there's not a single one who rates an S in the N/S dichotomy even though the general population is 70% S? And that there's such commonality, where three or so types account for over 80% of the people reporting? As Abbie said, it's as if we're all Taurus or Aries. If that were the case, I'd definitely be giving astrology a second look.

As I've said a couple times already, I still take MB with a grain of salt. But there's clearly something of value to it, unlike astrology.

[Za-zen]

9/11 second episode on its way to a city near you

[Git]

FFS, how many of you were/are raid leaders in WoW??

I have waaaay too many lvl 90s.

Haven't raided seriously in years though. Done some flex raiding though, and my main has an ilvl of 560+ atm.

Horde of course.

[another lurker]

The USA sells weapons to countries which then arm Hamas.

Milo Minderbinder was no joke.

[jugheadnaut]

btw can some mod shove this shit over to
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=247
pls

I was wondering when the complaints were going to start. :) Speaking personally, I'm done with it for now. If I recall correctly from past experience lurking the Pit, this is the stage when it starts getting nasty and irrational.

[jugheadnaut]

Anyone who acts as an apologist for the Israeli massacre of children is a cunt. Anyone who proffers the Israeli bullshit propaganda narrative about sub human terrorists using human shields as an excuse for the warcrimes of the Israeli fascist state is a double cunt, grasping at staws to justify the unjustifiable.

Israel is a cunt. And Israel will pay in blood for this. not today or tomorrow (except for their soldiers, and fuck them, murderous bastards). But the US will pay as well, know that. The US is enabling, funding arming Israel to commit this atrocity, it is complicit, and it will pay.

Called it. :)

[another lurker]

FFS, how many of you were/are raid leaders in WoW??

I have waaaay too many lvl 90s.

Haven't raided seriously in years though. Done some flex raiding though, and my main has an ilvl of 560+ atm.

Horde of course.

I quit WoW in 2010. Been playing LOTRO for the last 3 years. Have not raided yet. Not sure I want to. Its taken me 3 years to get to level 65:p (out of 100).

[TiBo]

Anyone who acts as an apologist for the Israeli massacre of children is a cunt. Anyone who proffers the Israeli bullshit propaganda narrative about sub human terrorists using human shields as an excuse for the warcrimes of the Israeli fascist state is a double cunt, grasping at staws to justify the unjustifiable.

Israel is a cunt. And Israel will pay in blood for this. not today or tomorrow (except for their soldiers, and fuck them, murderous bastards). But the US will pay as well, know that. The US is enabling, funding arming Israel to commit this atrocity, it is complicit, and it will pay.

trivial jew-hatred cloaked in denialism and human rights lingo. boring to the nth degree.

[Michael J]

Anyone see an end to this conflict in sight? Or will the slymepit have to battle the forces of SJWism for the next fifty years?

The agreement between Oafie and Dawkins seems to indicate that FTB has no interest in mutual agreements that acknowledge their own faults, and to be fair, Dawkins violated his side of the agreement shortly after Oafie did.

I don't think it will ever completely end but in the atheist/skeptic world I think that they will become insignificant. I see a few jumping ship or getting kicked out of FTB but how can they survive with almost every atheist of note against them.

[Pagancat]

FFS, how many of you were/are raid leaders in WoW??

I have waaaay too many lvl 90s.

Haven't raided seriously in years though. Done some flex raiding though, and my main has an ilvl of 560+ atm.

Horde of course.

Currently have 9 lvl 90s. Alliance. My main is a gnome destruction warlock. I'm also wondering where the fuck my life went.

[Za-zen]

Anyone who acts as an apologist for the Israeli massacre of children is a cunt. Anyone who proffers the Israeli bullshit propaganda narrative about sub human terrorists using human shields as an excuse for the warcrimes of the Israeli fascist state is a double cunt, grasping at staws to justify the unjustifiable.

Israel is a cunt. And Israel will pay in blood for this. not today or tomorrow (except for their soldiers, and fuck them, murderous bastards). But the US will pay as well, know that. The US is enabling, funding arming Israel to commit this atrocity, it is complicit, and it will pay.

trivial jew-hatred cloaked in denialism and human rights lingo. boring to the nth degree.

human rights lingo is so booooooooooooooring. you must hate jews! you're for human rights! fuck off you tribal minion.

[Git]

The thing about raiding nowadays is that it is like a fucking job.

I want to play for fun. Not to fill in timesheets (which raiding feels like)

Mind you, I still play casually. Mainly because I usually receive subscriptions as gifts....

[deLurch]

I used to like Myers-Briggs (I score INxP), but now I question its validity and scientific basis. Experiments have shown that a well written astrology profile written for nobody in particular will have almost everyone thinking "wow, this fits me so well!" With that in mind it's less impressive that people find their type descriptions match them well.

Yeah, my understanding is that the Myers-Briggs stuff was acknowledged to be pretty shaky. Ya'll are lapping up horoscopes. Those careers they told you would be good at as a result of Myers-Briggs testing was complete bullshit too.

I think comparing MB to horoscopes is completely without merit. If I ran that experiment here with an ESFJ profile, there would be a thundering consensus that it doesn't describe them at all. Compare an astrology profile:

http://my.horoscope.com/astrology/horos ... arius.html

to an MB profile:

http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

I thought about just putting two up and seeing if you could tell which is which, but it would be too obvious. Astrology profiles are short and vague. MB profiles are long and specific.

Doesn't it impress you at all that of the 20 or so people here who gave their MB type, there's not a single one who rates an S in the N/S dichotomy even though the general population is 70% S? And that there's such commonality, where three or so types account for over 80% of the people reporting? As Abbie said, it's as if we're all Taurus or Aries. If that were the case, I'd definitely be giving astrology a second look.

As I've said a couple times already, I still take MB with a grain of salt. But there's clearly something of value to it, unlike astrology.

Well as long as we are discussing this. INTP

And when I've read through them, on some of the descriptions, my thought was I could see them working ala Horoscope.

[Git]

Oh, I've switched over to XUbuntu 64-bit (14.04), which has blown my socks off frankly. I still have the Windows 7 dual-boot partition, but the 32-bit verson of WoW runs perfectly fine via Wine.

[Gefan]

INTJ hahaha it's like we are all Taurus/Aires.

My first thought was oysters.

My second thought was; "Huh. I just got done working a thirteen hour day and she's making a living blowing her nose on a pile of poker chips. I guess she wins".