Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Skep tickle]

Didn't someone once put up a post on their blog trying to make a big deal about the Slymepit wrestling over some ethical issue? Whether or not some picture or post should be allowed to stand vs edited, I think - was that Nugent?

I'm waiting for the post that reveals to the SJW world that Slymepitters are wrestling over the ethics of contacting CFI about Hensley's comments about (cishetwhitemale) vets with PTSD. Perhaps Zvan could do the subject justice, with her skills in investigative sleuthing and her incisive analysis. :whistle:

[Southern]

A fucking stupid tweet from Oolon. Is the comment really that bad? And wtf is "nut 'n' slut?"

"Nut 'n' slut" is a strategy for discrediting a woman by branding her as a nut and a slut. I don't think Ben Radford or anyone who supports him cares about her sexual proclivities, only that she defamed him.

If Karen Stollznow views "Fuck Canada" as a challenge, good on her. It makes her no better or worse of a human being. It's the weight of evidence that makes her look like a liar and a fraud that's the problem, not what she does with her body.

But she's not a virgin anymore! That's unacceptable. Unacceptable, I tell you, she should not have popped her cherry before marriage. What kind of woman does that these days? A damn whore, I tell you. A damn dirty whore with no morals and no God in her heart.

[Lsuoma]

According to Melody Hensley's twitter account, (if she is to be believed) she did in fact make good on her threat of contacting commanding officers.

I'd say it's well past time to return the favor. Flood this miserable person's employer with complaints and demands that they distance themselves from such despicable behavior.

What Melody is doing is despicable. It is despicable when Zsan & Greg Laden do it too. Why on earth would I want to join their ranks. On one hand, I won't be surprised if veterans started to return the favor. But I am certainly not going to advocate, encourage or condone it.

I think it would be entirely reasonable to ask CFI to issue a statement that they do not support or condone such views, and that the cow's protestation that twats from her personal account are not official CFI dicta is accurate and she is solely representing her personal view.

[Lsuoma]

I'm going to sleep on my comment for now. I have a strong desire to dox myself and speak about this very topic. I'll see if I feel the same way tomorrow.

Sorry if this sounds cryptic. Stream of thought BS...

Take care, man...

[Skep tickle]

I'm not coming up with any published literature on PTSD from twitter and emails, so MH's doctor or she might want to write her situation up as a case report (anonymized, of course).

One thing she has right is that vets aren't the only ones who get PTSD. Also, I don't know if she has said this, but PTSD occurs in a higher % of women than men....although in an evil anti-hornbeckian twist, the medical literature tries to claim there are biological factors for that difference. There are tons of articles on "sex differences" in neurobiology, stress response, psychiatric illness, etc, for example (linked because it came up early in my search & the whole paper is available free): Sex differences in molecular and cellular substrates of stress, which in the introduction (citing papers from 1998-2011) says (bolding added):

Mood and anxiety disorders are debilitating mental illnesses that affect 20% population and are the leading cause of disability in the United States for younger adults (Mark et al. 2007; Bromet et al. 2011). They particularly present a challenge to women’s health, because women are twice as likely to suffer from these disorders as men. Stress is a common factor in these disorders. Stressor exposure is associated with the onset and severity of the mood disorder, unipolar depression, and several anxiety disorders. In the case of the post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), the disease is precipitated by a traumatic event. There is some evidence to suggest that the sex bias in these diseases is due different types of stressors experienced by men vs. women. For example, men experience more physical attacks and serious accidents, while women are more likely to experience interpersonal assaults and sexual abuse (Breslau et al. 1998; Breslau 2002; Perkonigg et al. 2000; Kessler et al. 1995; Olff et al. 2007; Tolin and Foa 2006). Although the type of stressor exposure likely plays a role the sex bias, there is also mounting evidence to suggest that women respond differently to stressful events than men. For example, when women and men are confronted with similar stressful events (e.g., car accidents) women are more likely to develop psychopathology (Iteke et al. 2011). Stressful life events also are more highly correlated with symptoms of anxiety and depression in women than men (Sandanger et al. 2004). Importantly, the sex bias in PTSD remains after adjusting for the type of trauma, preexisting psychiatric disorders, and sex differences in reporting (Breslau 2009; Tolin and Foa 2006; Breslau et al. 1999). Together these data suggest that the increased incidence of stress-related psychiatric diseases in women is biologically determined.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I'm going to sleep on my comment for now. I have a strong desire to dox myself and speak about this very topic. I'll see if I feel the same way tomorrow.
Sorry if this sounds cryptic. Stream of thought BS...

I was going to write a sensitive response to PA, but you've nailed it, so nothing more need be said.

:lol:

FYI - I was booze. Sorry for the weird post.

I was booze.

Been there, no worries. Glad you had the control to leave it until after sleeping. A miraculous cure for many problems which the grog-loving chap brings upon themselves.

Very best wishes, PA.

[Linus]

Besides, aren't feelings of inadequacy brought on by baguette-sized cocks kind of weak tea, when there is so much else that a SJW could criticize about Tom of Finland, not least all the RAEP:

http://www.daddyshere.com/gayartists/to ... of_075.jpg

That's also racist: it depicts the Black cop with one of his balls on his right leg.

Tom of Finland, don't do that.

Fuck the world.

http://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.o ... 006377.jpg

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Besides, aren't feelings of inadequacy brought on by baguette-sized cocks kind of weak tea, when there is so much else that a SJW could criticize about Tom of Finland, not least all the RAEP:

http://www.daddyshere.com/gayartists/to ... rted/toimg]

That's also racist: it depicts the Black cop with one of his balls on his right leg.

Tom of Finland, don't do that.

Fuck the world.

http://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.o ... 006377.jpg

His models need to hit the glute/leg weights more. Has no ass. 3/10, would not fuck.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Haha! :)

Haha! :D

Haha! :lol:

http://i.imgur.com/5c1TAzL.png

[comhcinc]

Becky chips in, misses the point by several million miles.

Keep pressing the talking points, fine Skepchick scribe.

I am pretty outspoken about exactly how much love we should be giving vets. The way I have seen a lot of them act the last couple of years I have been in college is pretty bad in some cases. But...But.....even I am dumb struck by this.

http://i.imgur.com/J0vtkVO.jpg


Maybe it is just me but if anyone is "entitled" to speak on the subject of shell shock (my preferred term for the condition) then it is veterans who are dealing with shell shock.

(btw I nearly chocked on the irony)

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Link for that:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-783243

[JacquesCuze]

Stephanie Zvan's storify of the Hensley Affair is a thing of beauty.

https://storify.com/szvan/but-it-s-only-the-internet

She needs to resume that sucker to indicate the depth of her analysis as an analyst and her willingness to dive in deep. Once again, I can only skim it for 6 pages or so before looking around once more for the laudanum.

http://i.imgur.com/9qk7A0y.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/zYzUkME.jpg

[Linus]

Fedora Shaming as Discursive Activism

This article examines the Tumblr site Fedoras of OK Cupid which emerged in 2012 amidst a growing trend in feminists and other activists online that used shaming as an activist strategy. Fedoras of OK Cupid displays images and excerpts from men who wear fedora hats in their OK Cupid dating profile pictures, often highlighting worrying or even downright dangerous attitudes towards women revealed by their profiles. To understand this practice this articles draws on work identifying feminist discursive activism in online communities, to examine the Tumblr site in the context of reintegrative shaming in order to evaluate the practice of deploying shame for activist ends. While shame is often seen as having stigmatising effects, the author of the Fedoras of OK Cupid Tumblr illustrates how the process of reintegrative shaming may work in the context of online activism by offering earnest commentary on negative attitudes while also offering the possibility of social reintegration.

Academic jargonwank over fedoras and SJWs. I suppose it was inevitable.

Goddamn, who can read that shit on a daily basis?

Here is the conclusion:

Conclusion

In this paper I have looked at the Tumblr site Fedoras of OK Cupid and its engagement in shaming tactics, consolidating a growing consensus that fedoras are not cool, based largely on the frequently deleterious, dangerous or regressive attitudes of their wearers. I have articulated this practise within existing social movement research into discursive activism, cultivating both a community to exercise this activism, which largely takes the form of shaming. This novel addition to identified discursive activist tactics carries with it a question of whether shame is a legitimate activist tactic, or whether it is irredeemably tainted by its problematic history of deployment against women as a method of oppression and control. I have argued that criminologist John Braithwaite’s conception of reintegrative shame provides a useful theoretical frame for understanding ‘good’ forms of shame that extend the possibility of reintegration and socialisation. Misandristcutie’s ‘treasuring’ of her nerds and similar statements position the targets of her criticism and shaming as possible candidates for reintegration into the broader feminist community, in line with Braithwaite’s explanation. I claim that members of the community paint a picture of the benefits of reintegration, and of taking these feminist’s concerns seriously, adding credence to the notion of legitimate shaming deployed by feminist discursive activists.

I hope this helps Aneris understand that register-her while sexist is thusly legitimate shaming and provides the opportunity and benefits of reintegration to Big Red and other misandrists who are outside of modern discourse.

Did Fedoras of OKC dox? If not then I can't imagine why anyone would care about them. From what little I've seen of 'Nice Guys of OKC' I actually thought it was pretty funny. I especially enjoy laughing at people who complain about "the friend zone".

Fuck doxers though.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/d065d049e402 ... o1_400.jpg

[JacquesCuze]

http://i.imgur.com/QavbqkM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JYCoA2h.jpg

[Aneris]

Since I'm two-language privileged, I found the German article on PTSD quite informative. It provides a definition of the AWMF (Association of the Scientific Medical Societies in Germany) and it defines it as: “a possible follow-reaction to one or several traumatic events” then lists circumstances where someone is either directly affected or a witness. Examples range from sexual assault, war, political detention, torture, natural catastrophes to diagnoses of a terminal illness, i.e. severe, life threatening stuff. I don't see Twitter in that league, not even with Social Justice Warriors turning it into a battlefield. Medical organisations operate with that definition which they consider broad, yet specific enough and that's the interesting part: to distinguish it from other diagnoses that may be similar but are not induced by such traumatic events, in particular “adjustment disorders”. There are apparently many more diagnoses that are partially similar, but no PTSD.

Criteria for PTSD are, in ICD-10, according to the german article:

• The person was subject to a traumatic, extraordinary situation which would traumatize almost everyone.
• the traumatic situation must come up as memories, flash-backs etc. on a regular basis.
• The person avoids situations that are similar to the circumstances in which the traumatic situation occurred.
• And at least one of the following (of two) is true: (1) memory loss of aspects of the traumatic event or (2) list of conditions of which some must be true, e.g. unable to sleep, quickly angered etc. the article of course makes a list, but that's fine print

The DSM criteria also begins with confrontation with a traumatic event, then lists them as life-threatening with intense fear, helplessness and so on. Further down it is stressed that therapy is only possible when the person is removed from the traumatic situation.

In a nushell, nothing new to report: what she claims is very unlikely and very dubious. But then again, there are doctors who diagnose, and it's not yet done with Wikipedia.

Under this circumstance, a Center For Inquiry, and a director of such organisation should have an understanding where others are coming from, when they question such claims. So even if it was all true, and she really has PTSD, her behaviour towards a legitimate critical attitude is what is the key issue here. And she can't weasel herself out by citing some sort of inverted kafkatrap that prevents her from dealing with it — if she makes it public and with her controversial behaviour spreads it far a d wide, she could have written an article by now on it that satisfies their “inquiry” mission. I think that is the actual problem there, and part of the wider issue of Social Justice League folks: the inability to see where others are coming from and when that also is about critical thinking, then CFI has a big problem. Their director can't understand why people could critically question “twitter PTSD” as a thing. A director of an “inquiry” organisation who can't fathom inquiry is a miscast.

[comhcinc]

Stephanie Zvan's storify of the Hensley Affair is a thing of beauty.

https://storify.com/szvan/but-it-s-only-the-internet

She needs to resume that sucker to indicate the depth of her analysis as an analyst and her willingness to dive in deep. Once again, I can only skim it for 6 pages or so before looking around once more for the laudanum.

http://i.imgur.com/9qk7A0y.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/zYzUkME.jpg

I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. She says she's got shell shock then sure she has got it. That being the case I wonder why she keeps having a twitter account. It seems that in the process of getting better the first thing to do would be to get offline completely. I mean when people in the military get shell shock they take them away from combat.

It just makes sense.

[Skep tickle]

CFI wouldn't move MH out of her role as CFI-DC Executive Director before WiS3, which is scheduled for May 16-18.

http://www.womeninsecularism.org/

From the schedule, Fri May 16 from 7:00 pm – 9:00 pm is "Reception with Melody Hensley"

(Also, for whatever reason, "Closing Remarks" are offered twice: Sat May 17 from 5:00 pm – 5:10 pm, and Sun May 18 from 11:15 am – 11:30 am")

The conference website says this (bolding added to my favorite parts):

It’s time for the third Women in Secularism conference, an unmissable event that will tackle some of freethought’s burning questions:

• A wave of oppression around the world is being justified by religious dogma with an aim to drag women’s rights back to the Bronze Age. —Can the tide be turned?
• Women who attempt to leave a religion too often face family estrangement, community exile, or even violence. —Can we create an environment where women are free to question faith without fear?
• Women and minorities continue to be underrepresented in the secular movement. —Can we right this wrong and strengthen the movement?

The answer to all of these is YES.

We can do it.

Register now for Women in Secularism III, May 16-18 in Alexandria, VA, just outside of DC. See a powerful roster of speakers and panelists from the worlds of social justice, freethought activism, journalism, and academia confront these questions and much more.

Women in Secularism III is presented by the Center for Inquiry.

I'm interested in the approach they'd recommend for addressing the "problem" that women and "'minorities"* are more likely to belong to churches & consider themselves religious. Also whether they'd still call "minority" groups "minorities" in places where such a group is the majority, including New Mexico and (now) California, as well as (how ironic) Washington DC.

[AndrewV69]

I think what some of you are saying is that Adria Richards shouldn't have been fired from her position as a PR person for Sendgrid just because she caused such bad PR.

My understanding is that she was a "developer evangelist" and while I have very little idea of what that means, I actually saw no reason to believe she couldn't have continued in that role if she had been willing to walk back her comments, express regret, and had the backing of her company.

I can understand the "evangelist" part of "developer evangelist" indicates a role of winning hearts and minds and I can understand that it would be hard to think she could win any hearts and minds of developers if she insisted she was right to tweet about private jokes she often shared herself. For the children.

Sorry, there is no way I would have cleared her to enter the building much less talk to any of my people after her little escapade.

I figure she knew she had cooked her own goose with her "Joan of Arc" comment. That tells me something.

My forecast here is like the weather, today's weather is most likely to be like yesterday's weather, tomorrow's like today. CFI will not fire Hensley. CFI will barely even understand there is any sort of issue at all, just some of the usual assholes on twitter harassing Melody again that they are always told about.

That I suppose is entirely possible. At any rate at this point, both CFI and Hensley deserve whatever befalls them in the future. They have worked for it.

[JacquesCuze]

Did Fedoras of OKC dox? If not then I can't imagine why anyone would care about them. From what little I've seen of 'Nice Guys of OKC' I actually thought it was pretty funny. I especially enjoy laughing at people who complain about "the friend zone".

Fuck doxers though.

So you're okay with your profile picture from OkC being splashed across a tumblr with huge traffic while someone you don't know and have never met describes your sins as a dude.

And you're not sure how that could constitute a privacy invasion or any sort of doxing anyone should care about.

You also like reading Nice Guys of OkC and laughing at the men you find on it.

Sounds about right, Linus. Thanks for sharing.

[AndrewV69]

I think what some of you are saying is that Adria Richards shouldn't have been fired from her position as a PR person for Sendgrid just because she caused such bad PR.

Not exactly. At least what I'm saying is there shouldn't be a mob trying to get her fired. Adria got fired less because of a mob, and far more because she was literally a horrible choice for the job she had to do, and her behavior at PyCon really proved it.

I believe she fired herself. Furthermore in some corner of her mind she knew she was doing so at the time.

[KiwiInOz]

Besides, aren't feelings of inadequacy brought on by baguette-sized cocks kind of weak tea, when there is so much else that a SJW could criticize about Tom of Finland, not least all the RAEP:

http://www.daddyshere.com/gayartists/to ... of_075.jpg

That dude is gettin' some gayness in his anus.

Is it just my perception, or is the white guy's head disproportionately small?

[Linus]

I have no problem believing Melody has PTSD due to things that happened on internet (cyberstalking or whatever). Threatening to call people's commanding officers makes her a twat though.

[comhcinc]

Is it just my perception, or is the white guy's head disproportionately small?

Which head?

[Linus]

Did Fedoras of OKC dox? If not then I can't imagine why anyone would care about them. From what little I've seen of 'Nice Guys of OKC' I actually thought it was pretty funny. I especially enjoy laughing at people who complain about "the friend zone".

Fuck doxers though.

So you're okay with your profile picture from OkC being splashed across a tumblr with huge traffic while someone you don't know and have never met describes your sins as a dude.

And you're not sure how that could constitute a privacy invasion or any sort of doxing anyone should care about.

You also like reading Nice Guys of OkC and laughing at the men you find on it.

Sounds about right, Linus. Thanks for sharing.

Uhh, yes. People post pictures of people and make fun of them here all the time. Are you serious?

[welch]

Besides, aren't feelings of inadequacy brought on by baguette-sized cocks kind of weak tea, when there is so much else that a SJW could criticize about Tom of Finland, not least all the RAEP:

http://www.daddyshere.com/gayartists/to ... of_075.jpg

That's also racist: it depicts the Black cop with one of his balls on his right leg.

Tom of Finland, don't do that.

Fuck the world.

http://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.o ... 006377.jpg

You know, for the kvetching PZ does, it's not like those kinds of bodies are impossible to get, even for someone his age. The problem is, it would in fact take actual regular exercise of a specific type, and some sensible dietary modifications, mostly increasing overall protein intake and reducing carbs.

But those guys aren't as ripped as say, the average model in Esquire or GQ.

[Liesmith]

You know, for the kvetching PZ does, it's not like those kinds of bodies are impossible to get, even for someone his age. The problem is, it would in fact take actual regular exercise of a specific type, and some sensible dietary modifications, mostly increasing overall protein intake and reducing carbs.

But those guys aren't as ripped as say, the average model in Esquire or GQ.

Dick size can be increased sixfold through diet and exercise? Who knew?

But I guess this concern about body image and dickficiency is the Patriarchy talking.

[JacquesCuze]

Did Fedoras of OKC dox? If not then I can't imagine why anyone would care about them. From what little I've seen of 'Nice Guys of OKC' I actually thought it was pretty funny. I especially enjoy laughing at people who complain about "the friend zone".

Fuck doxers though.

So you're okay with your profile picture from OkC being splashed across a tumblr with huge traffic while someone you don't know and have never met describes your sins as a dude.

And you're not sure how that could constitute a privacy invasion or any sort of doxing anyone should care about.

You also like reading Nice Guys of OkC and laughing at the men you find on it.

Sounds about right, Linus. Thanks for sharing.

Uhh, yes. People post pictures of people and make fun of them here all the time. Are you serious?

Really? This place scrapes one source, a dating site, scrapes the profile information, displays all of that along with snarky comments that suggest shaming these people, and then this site promotes itself to the world as your one stop shop to see all the weirdos from that site?

I wasn't aware. Thank you.

Would you do me a favor then and post a picture of yourself (and I guess some verification?).

[AndrewV69]

In other news: Dutch cleaning firm whites-only hiring policy prompts angry response

“I don’t discriminate,” he insisted. “I just don’t invite them for interview. Poles, Moroccans, any non-whites, are not going to be hired to work for this company. Achmed and Ali are probably very good people, but I don’t want them working for me.”

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

It seems to me that the Melody problem goes further than just trying to get somebody fired for their online views. Melody has cast herself as a public figure associated with CFI. Her bullshit online is having real-world consequences for how atheists and skeptics are viewed, and tarnishing CFI's image. CFI is within their bounds to make certain she separates her SJW twitter activity from her CFI twitter activity. Also a disclaimer "these are the views of Melody Henson, and do not necessary reflect the views of CFI" might go a ways to making her more palatable. An email to CFI to suggest this would not be out of order, IMHO.

Also, if one is not donating to CFI because of Melody, do they not deserve to know that? I don't think the morality of calling her out is at all clear-cut.

[Linus]

So you're okay with your profile picture from OkC being splashed across a tumblr with huge traffic while someone you don't know and have never met describes your sins as a dude.

And you're not sure how that could constitute a privacy invasion or any sort of doxing anyone should care about.

You also like reading Nice Guys of OkC and laughing at the men you find on it.

Sounds about right, Linus. Thanks for sharing.

Uhh, yes. People post pictures of people and make fun of them here all the time. Are you serious?

Really? This place scrapes one source, a dating site, scrapes the profile information, displays all of that along with snarky comments that suggest shaming these people, and then this site promotes itself to the world as your one stop shop to see all the weirdos from that site?

I wasn't aware. Thank you.

:cdc: :bjarte:

Would you do me a favor then and post a picture of yourself (and I guess some verification?).

Nope.

[Selenite]

The debate over emailing CFI reminds me of the debate about 'Freeze Peach'.

Censorship and contacting employers aren't immoral, exactly. They just lead to shitty equilibrium. Both sides use the tactics, and the object level debate ends up the same. It's just less pleasant for everyone involved.

But people have forgotten why we have taboos like, "don't contact employers over internet drama". Maybe, they think, we could have a new rule where it's ok when they do it. After all, they're goodies arguing against baddies, right?

At this point, I think we just need to watch stuff play out. These tactics will reach their conclusions. And people will remember why we have taboos against incivility -- even if the other person is wrong.

If stuff's going to play out, calling the employer of someone who just threatended to call employers seems totally reasonable.

[DownThunder]

The disclaimer that Hensley's personal views are not representative of CFI's is an excuse that only goes so far. "CFI" is not a real thing capable of having views, it is a collective of views and opinions made by the people who comprise the group. Hensley does have a significant position in the organisation and it is difficult to believe that her extreme personal ideas do not reflect on her work. She is not, for example, the janitor.

[Linus]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

[Sunder]

Jerry Coyne is not anywhere near as bad as PZ Myers but it's still annoying to watch him continue to take baby steps in that direction on his blog that he refuses to call a blog (god damned dictionary bloggers!).

[Brive1987]

When I read:

Personal account: Centre for Inquiry DC Director ....

I don't really get the impression there is much of a Chinese Wall up at all. She is clearly sandwiching the two terms together in a way that could be resolved with a simple full-stop.

Personally if she was my employee, an advocate and pursing aggressive personal advocacy at odds with her job, I'd demand the complete removal of CFI from the paragraph. Duh.

http://i.imgur.com/Ihcasyl.jpg

[JacquesCuze]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

Actually I think you started this by not understanding how posting pictures of people from OkC can dox them when you post them on a high trafficked page that is sure to be seen by members of their peers.

Then you refused to post your own picture here.

I don't imagine that's because you understand between GIS, and G+ tagging and Facebook tagging and Instagram tagging (?) how easy a face photo can dox you.

And fwiw, the vast majority of the people here whose pictures get posted and photoshopped are not random unknown people picked from out of the blue because they wore the wrong hat. They are invariably people who are well known, identity, beliefs, images of, and the mockery stems from the well known public identity they have created for themselves.

[JacquesCuze]

When I read:

Personal account: Centre for Inquiry DC Director ....

I don't really get the impression there is much of a Chinese Wall up at all. She is clearly sandwiching the two terms together in a way that could be resolved with a simple full-stop.

Personally if she was my employee, an advocate and pursing aggressive personal advocacy at odds with her job, I'd demand the complete removal of CFI from the paragraph. Duh.

http://i.imgur.com/Ihcasyl.jpg

If this actually hit the press, well there are many companies that would certainly fire her for what she has written even if she had never mentioned the company she worked for and even if her job was just as random low level employee.

[SoylentAtheist]

http://i.imgur.com/QavbqkM.jpg

Breast Cancer is one thing but Beast Cancer? The hell if I want to contract that!

[JackSkeptic]

I have no problem believing Melody has PTSD due to things that happened on internet (cyberstalking or whatever). Threatening to call people's commanding officers makes her a twat though.

I have a problem with her claims for the simple reason her behavior is better explained by a lot of other conditions. It is also unsupported by any evidence I have seen defining the condition. In fact her actions are contrary to it. That includes the fact that PTSD gets the maximum sympathy while allowed an aggressive reaction which a Narcissist would use to justify their behavior. Having PTSD does not explain her total lack of concern for other people's welfare and a gross overstatement of the impact on her. It does not explain the fact she can still stay on twitter while not grasping her nasty comments are the cause of the reasons she gets. Useful idiots like Watson who love blaming misogyny for everything just adds to her delusion. Hensley needs help, not trivial nobody's like Watson et al feeding their condition.

I provisionally believe most people as that is required to get anything done in life and is a natural result of empathy. SJW's exploit that which is not only reprehensible behavior but trivializes those with genuine conditions who need help. Every time someone like Myers calls 'rape' for his political jollies he is contributing to more people ignoring the real victims. That is what SJW's do, they poison everything they touch and turn it into a sanitized, self serving version of reality which underneath is a boiling pustule of viralant hate. It achieves nothing except harm.

[James Caruthers]

I have no problem believing Melody has PTSD due to things that happened on internet (cyberstalking or whatever). Threatening to call people's commanding officers makes her a twat though.

I do. But maybe that's because I actually pay attention to what she posts and know what her definition of "harassment" and "horrible abuse" are.

Go on, try to have a conversation with Hensley where you disagree with her about anything. I'll wait. Let me know when she blocks you and accuses you of being a misogynist abuser.

She's the textbook case of a pretend victim bully, and even IF she actually had PTSD, she's had something like a YEAR to recover from it. She claims Twitter gave her PTSD, but she continues to post on twitter, bully people over twitter, try to get people fired over Twitter arguments, says inflammatory things on Twitter and engages with people she calls abusers on Twitter.

[Brive1987]

I'd be interested in seeing her "pursing aggressive advocacy"

pursing <> pursuing

[James Caruthers]

You know, for the kvetching PZ does, it's not like those kinds of bodies are impossible to get, even for someone his age. The problem is, it would in fact take actual regular exercise of a specific type, and some sensible dietary modifications, mostly increasing overall protein intake and reducing carbs.

But those guys aren't as ripped as say, the average model in Esquire or GQ.

Video games and comics are frequently held up as examples of horrible misogyny because of the portrayals of women. Whatever, I'm not gonna argue that point today.

But the figures in these drawings that PZ is complaining about? Those guys would be wimps compared to the truly impossible male bodies frequently displayed in comics and video games.

I'm not even going to give examples. Fuck it. Look up a famous male superhero who isn't Spider-Man. Then look up a famous action game hero like the dudes from Gears of War.

You can pump all the iron you want, but even Arnold at the height of his bodybuilding career wasn't ripped like the walking muscle slabs in Gears of War or Justice League.

Exaggerating biological characteristics for style can be a style in itself. I don't think artists and creative people have any obligation to create realistic-looking characters to suit the whims of social justice wanktards who aren't willing to create their own competing comics and games.

[JackSkeptic]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

How do you know they are 'crappy people' and even if they are who has the right to publish that to anyone if they are not people making public statements. If you can't tell the difference between someone like Myers and some poor sap who just wants to get on in life I don't know what more to say.

[Selenite]

I have no problem believing Melody has PTSD due to things that happened on internet (cyberstalking or whatever). Threatening to call people's commanding officers makes her a twat though.

I have a problem with her claims for the simple reason her behavior is better explained by a lot of other conditions. It is also unsupported by any evidence I have seen defining the condition. In fact her actions are contrary to it. That includes the fact that PTSD gets the maximum sympathy while allowed an aggressive reaction which a Narcissist would use to justify their behavior. Having PTSD does not explain her total lack of concern for other people's welfare and a gross overstatement of the impact on her. It does not explain the fact she can still stay on twitter while not grasping her nasty comments are the cause of the reasons she gets. Useful idiots like Watson who love blaming misogyny for everything just adds to her delusion. Hensley needs help, not trivial nobody's like Watson et al feeding their condition.

I provisionally believe most people as that is required to get anything done in life and is a natural result of empathy. SJW's exploit that which is not only reprehensible behavior but trivializes those with genuine conditions who need help. Every time someone like Myers calls 'rape' for his political jollies he is contributing to more people ignoring the real victims. That is what SJW's do, they poison everything they touch and turn it into a sanitized, self serving version of reality which underneath is a boiling pustule of viralant hate. It achieves nothing except harm.

I agree on both counts.

The DSM-IV has a few sections for the diagnosis. Notably, they include:

Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

(8) Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings, or conversations associated with the trauma
(9) Efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma
(10) Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma
(11) Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities
(12) Feeling of detachment or estrangement from others
(13) Restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings)
(14) Sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal lifespan)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK83241/

This just doesn't fit. In fact, it's explictly contradicted by her very-voluntary presence on twitter.

What I'd believe is that she's got some anxiety/depression issues. Twitter arguments could make that worse. No one likes being called names on the internet.

Then, I can totally imagine a situation were she asks her therapist if she maybe has PTSD and gets and answer like, "Well ... You have some PTSD-like symptoms" that's intended as a diplomatic no.

[James Caruthers]

Contacting an employer and asking for an official comment is not the same as telling all of your twitter followers "this person who just said a word I don't like? Let's fire this person."

There's no reason to even equate the two. If CFI chooses to fire Hensley, that is their business. I would not push for that. I simply think CFI should publicly disassociate themselves from her private Twitter page by telling her to take down all of the CFI mentions. She is using her private twitter to bully and try to fire veterans and trans individuals, and I do not think CFI would lend their support to such activities. Contacting CFI to let them know what Melody is doing, no matter how many people do it, is not equivalent to starting a firing campaign.

"Here's some shit your employee did on a Twitter account that mentions your company."

Is not the same as

"Here is some shit your employee did on a Twitter account that mentions your company, AND WE DEMAND YOU FIRE THIS PERSON NAO."

Hensley should retain her bully podium, and CFI should simply be made aware that this is what she is doing with that podium. Adrea Richards was fired because she was a PR rep who gave her employer a fuckton of bad PR. Because... She was shit at her job! Surprise surprise. She had many opportunities to turn her little drama into a PR win for her company, but she kept doing deeper into "fuck you cis scum" territory until they had enough. She also publicly claimed she had their complete 100% support without her employer's permission. That would sure piss me off if I were her manager.

[Linus]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

Actually I think you started this by not understanding how posting pictures of people from OkC can dox them when you post them on a high trafficked page that is sure to be seen by members of their peers.

Posting a picture of someone that gets recognized by a person who actually knows them is not doxing in my book. Getting recognized by someone you know is a risk everyone runs when they set up an OKC account. All it takes is for someone who knows you to make their own profile and browse the locale area then there's a decent chance they'll come across your profile.

Then you refused to post your own picture here.

So?

I don't imagine that's because you understand between GIS, and G+ tagging and Facebook tagging and Instagram tagging (?) how easy a face photo can dox you.

Nothing to do with that, no. Perhaps photos can tag people in ways I'm not aware of. But as for Facebook tagging and such, I'm not sure I get it. You mean like if someone saves a photo from facebook and posts it elsewhere it retains its tags?

And fwiw, the vast majority of the people here whose pictures get posted and photoshopped are not random unknown people picked from out of the blue because they wore the wrong hat. They are invariably people who are well known, identity, beliefs, images of, and the mockery stems from the well known public identity they have created for themselves.

Most are yeah. But not all. For example the "I need feminism because..." pictures.

[Brive1987]

Besides, aren't feelings of inadequacy brought on by baguette-sized cocks kind of weak tea, when there is so much else that a SJW could criticize about Tom of Finland, not least all the RAEP:

http://www.daddyshere.com/gayartists/to ... of_075.jpg

That dude is gettin' some gayness in his anus.

Is it just my perception, or is the white guy's head disproportionately small?

[Linus]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

How do you know they are 'crappy people' and even if they are who has the right to publish that to anyone if they are not people making public statements. If you can't tell the difference between someone like Myers and some poor sap who just wants to get on in life I don't know what more to say.

I never claimed they were comparable to PZ. I'm sure many of the "I need feminism" people aren't nearly as bad as PZ either. But the few guys I looked at on Nice Guys of OKC seemed at least moderately douchey to me. Writing stuff like "I'm a really nice guy and I keep getting friend zoned" and then in their questions there's things like "Would you ever secretly record a sexual encounter without the other person knowing? I'm not sure." "Do you think women are obligated to shave their legs? Yes." "Do you think men should be the head of the household? Yes." Nothing horrific, but enough for a chuckle or two.

[Selenite]

Contacting CFI to let them know what Melody is doing, no matter how many people do it, is not equivalent to starting a firing campaign.

"Here's some shit your employee did on a Twitter account that mentions your company."

Is not the same as

"Here is some shit your employee did on a Twitter account that mentions your company, AND WE DEMAND YOU FIRE THIS PERSON NAO."
.

I think you're drawing a good distinction about motivations.

In one case, there are a bunch of people telling CFI that they're annoyed. CFI can do what they want with that information. The PR problem is there before anyone sends any emails.

Firing campaigns are much more extortionary. #CancelColbert comes off as "Give us what we want or we'll create a PR problem for you."

[JacquesCuze]

If you think laughing at crappy people, posting pictures of them and making "snarky comments" is a terrible thing to do then the slymepit may not be the site for you.

Actually I think you started this by not understanding how posting pictures of people from OkC can dox them when you post them on a high trafficked page that is sure to be seen by members of their peers.

Posting a picture of someone that gets recognized by a person who actually knows them is not doxing in my book. Getting recognized by someone you know is a risk everyone runs when they set up an OKC account. All it takes is for someone who knows you to make their own profile and browse the locale area then there's a decent chance they'll come across your profile.

Then you refused to post your own picture here.

So?

I don't imagine that's because you understand between GIS, and G+ tagging and Facebook tagging and Instagram tagging (?) how easy a face photo can dox you.

Nothing to do with that, no. Perhaps photos can tag people in ways I'm not aware of. But as for Facebook tagging and such, I'm not sure I get it. You mean like if someone saves a photo from facebook and posts it elsewhere it retains its tags?

And fwiw, the vast majority of the people here whose pictures get posted and photoshopped are not random unknown people picked from out of the blue because they wore the wrong hat. They are invariably people who are well known, identity, beliefs, images of, and the mockery stems from the well known public identity they have created for themselves.

Most are yeah. But not all. For example the "I need feminism because..." pictures.

I'll grant the posting of "I need feminism" photos are the closest to Fedoras of OkC. I'll still maintain that there is a huge difference between what the pit does as an occasional indulgence and what Fedoras of OkC does (or did) as their chief, primary, and one and only activity.

No one comes to the pit to see the dummies in their class and the statements they made about how they need feminism.

But that was precisely the allure of FoOkC.

And I don't have an Instagram account or Facebook account, but yes, my understanding is bring in a photo that as been tagged elsewhere at Facebook/Instagram/G+ and these sites can offer to name them. It usually works on the social networks by your being in some sort of friend relationship with the person you are trying to identify.

But if you just use GIS or tineye, you don't need to be friends of them at all, they just need to have a searchable page with that photo on it.

Posting a picture of someone that gets recognized by a person who actually knows them is not doxing in my book.

It is in reddit's book.


I don't agree with many of reddit's policies, including their doxxing policy, especially including how opaque they are about that policy, but regardless, no identifiable photos of people except under very special circumstances. And before you ask, no, I have know idea what that means about their memes.

[Old_ones]

Looks like Paul Loebe at Rock Beyond Belief has decided to mirror the Thunderf00t vid about smellody and PTSD:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rockbeyond ... /ptsd-and/

I don't know how far this is going to go in the millitary/veterans community, but this is definitely a start.

[Linus]

Fuck it, I will concede the point. It's worse to post pictures of people from dating websites than people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures and public/semi-public figures. The former is still not something I really have a problem with, but I'll concede that having a problem with it is consistent with not having a problem with the stuff that goes on in the pit.

[Liesmith]

Fuck it, I will concede the point. It's worse to post pictures of people from dating websites than people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures and public/semi-public figures. The former is still not something I really have a problem with, but I'll concede that having a problem with it is consistent with not having a problem with the stuff that goes on in the pit.

Apology accepted.

[Linus]

Fuck it, I will concede the point. It's worse to post pictures of people from dating websites than people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures and public/semi-public figures. The former is still not something I really have a problem with, but I'll concede that having a problem with it is consistent with not having a problem with the stuff that goes on in the pit.

Apology accepted.

Let's never fight again.

[JacquesCuze]

Fuck it, I will concede the point. It's worse to post pictures of people from dating websites than people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures and public/semi-public figures. The former is still not something I really have a problem with, but I'll concede that having a problem with it is consistent with not having a problem with the stuff that goes on in the pit.

And thank you for going further than I could see (small migraine, no pouncehugs needed) "people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures" re: the I need feminism stuff vs. "date me".

[JackSkeptic]

Fuck it, I will concede the point. It's worse to post pictures of people from dating websites than people who are attempting to make public statements with their pictures and public/semi-public figures. The former is still not something I really have a problem with, but I'll concede that having a problem with it is consistent with not having a problem with the stuff that goes on in the pit.

Stop being reasonable, we need an other Watergategate to while away the time between more SJW insanity.

Anyway, I had not considered issues such as the 'I need feminism...' pics which I agree are not the same as people in the public domain, such as Myers. However they are comments on what the person said, not anything else. I once heard Myers on a podcast saying he had no real issue with all the Photoshops of himself in principle, which I do give him credit for.


[youtube]vB9JgxhXW5w[/youtube]

[Dick Strawkins]

Melody Hensley is not the problem.

The problem is that CFI saw fit to promote her into a position of power.
The organization, either through lack of leadership, or institutionally in the way it is set up and funded, has brought this upon itself.

Does anyone here seriously think that Ron Lindsay would be shocked to hear about Melody's actions?
I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what she has been doing.
Can anyone recall what action was taken after Melody joined the baying mob calling for Lindsay's head after the WISC2 conference when he had the temerity to suggest that 'privilege' was not a magic word that wins all arguments?

Her reward for knifing him in the back was apparently getting congratulated for doing a wonderful job and then being asked to do the same thing again a year later!
It's clear that Lindsay's hands are tied on this.
They now have a person with serious psychiatric problems (which she herself compares to military induced PTSD) who is spending her entire time online behaving in a way that would embarrass Hugo Schwyzer.

And they have no way of dealing with this.
Both Melody and her husband hold well-paid positions in the CFI. There's no way they could be fired without provoking a hugely costly lawsuit, as well as a category 5 shitnado of SJW rage and calls for a boycott of the CFI.
It would certainly cripple the organization, at least financially, and we know that they are not in a good financial position now.

The JREF were in a similar position a couple of years ago and they managed to mostly pull themselves clear of the mess - probably because they don't try to portray themselves as moral examplars in the way the CFI do. Being geeky science and magic fans in enough for the JREF - and probably shows the advantage of keeping moral issues separate from scepticism.
But don't forget, the JREF were just as guilty as the CFI a few years back. They were the ones who promoted the Skepchicks, flew them to conferences, paid for their parties and gave them financial assistance in the form of grants. And it was through this promotion that the Skepchicks gained some degree of power in the skeptical community. In reality this simply equated to celebrity - but unfortunately that seems to be the common currency these days.

So what's to be done?

I can't really answer that except to point out my own perspective.
I've tended to interact with the atheist community online rather than in real life. I did attended a couple of atheist meetings a few years back but found that the groups were quite insular and seemed to be run primarily by older men (the stereotypical image of bearded old guys was certainly the case here.) While I can imagine that such a setup may be offputting to women who attend such meetings for the first time, it was no less offputting to me. The old boys clubs that run atheist groups do not do so for the benefit ofou men in general. They do it for the benefit of themselves and their friends. I didn't find it particularly inviting to me as a man either.
So I've tended to stick to online activity where you don't have to know the right people in order to get a chance to speak your piece.

I've also avoided movement atheism/skepticism for the reason that there appears to be a Faustian bargain to be met by those who seek such influence. You can get the invites to conferences, the invites to write for the correct networks and sites etc, but only if you stick to the correct political line. In particular you must not raise your voice to criticise your allies even if they do or say things that are contemptible.
Did anyone else notice the fact that Matt Dillahunty's asshole index skyrocketed when he started getting invites to speak at conferences and joined FTB?
What about Aron Ra and his silence regarding SJW idiocy?
Or even Damion's treatment of Vacula on Skeptic Ink, and his subsequent hypocritical moralizing?

No, I'm not prepared to pay that kind of price.
So I'll stick to the sidelines for now. I prefer to be able to speak the truth as I see it rather than hold my tongue for fear of losing status amongst those with power.

In the end, blaming Hensley for this is as pointless as blaming Homer's nodding duck when it stops pressing the button.

[youtube]8OkKhkJiJyo[/youtube]

If this situation in inevitable given CFI's setup, is the CFI itself really worth saving?
In Europe we don't tend to have central organizations for atheism or skepticism in the way that the US has - and perhaps this is a better model than the US system in that it insulates the overall movement from entryist attacks from SJWs.
I'd better stop before I start rambling!

[comhcinc]

Fuck it, I will concede the point.

Someone conceded a point on the internet?

Well I have seen everything now.

http://a.gifb.in/1234443297_ken_park_suicide.gif

[SoylentAtheist]

Fuck it, I will concede the point.

Someone conceded a point on the internet?
Well I have seen everything now.
http://a.gifb.in/1234443297_ken_park_suicide.gif

You haven't been here long I see. Only 11 posts.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Still catching up, but that Hensley PTSD/Military stuff takes the cake. Disgusting! I'm now 100% sure that as long as CFI keeps that fuckhead around I'll not give them any kind of support, be it bucks or anything else.

*vomit*