Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

[Tony Parsehole]

Ha!! Lsuoma, where did you find that bit of fabulousness.

"JESUS You sound just like your mother"
:lol:

The link was on b3ta.com today (in the newsletter, which is a frequently amusing web roundup published on Fridays).

Hey, I used to post stuff to B3ta:

Hitler_Funky.gif

mussdance.gif

vagex9000.jpg

Got a whole folder of that questionable shit.

Internet noob that I am I'd never visited that site until today. It's got a very RatherGood.com feel to it.
http://www.rathergood.com/
That place is looking dated as fuck now.

[Tony Parsehole]

AHAHAHA....Did you make that Vagex 9000 advert?
Pretty good that.

[Gefan]

...They really do want a heavily segregated and censored society. Can we do a kickstarter to buy that land around Chernyobel for their SJW Commune, and get the CIA to rendition these idiots to it?

This is a bit like an ongoing theme of mine regarding lesbian separatism. Some of the SJW RadFems claim to want nothing to do with The Patriarchy (TM) or the menz and gender traitors in general.

Since this is essentially the "I hate you! I want to live on my own!" tantrum of a spoiled child, my response is: Okay, how can I help make this happen?

If there were some way to do it, I'd vote for buying at least one of the San Juan Islands (flannel shirt-compatible climate, good whale-watching) setting them up with supplies and then standing back and watching.
I cannot WAIT to see (a) who and how many volunteer to go live there, and (b) what kind of apocalyptic clusterfuck results.

Of course, the Baboons are always one step ahead with the crazy, and someone here quoted some RadFem blogger explaining that this would all be very nice but that we all owed them resources and subsidies (in perpetuity?) because reasons.

Having said all that, I'm sure we could get a better deal around Chernobyl than we could in the San Juans.

[zenbabe]

AHAHAHA....Did you make that Vagex 9000 advert?
Pretty good that.

It had me giggling.
I really loved all the fine print of that ad. The plain, but incredibly indiscreet brown wrapper, and the pretty clear hints that a gangster is running the company :)
And of course the "Unlike my ex-wife, it moves" line was great

[Guest]

That would make for awesome reality TV. Put some cameras on there, and The Island of Social Justice would fund itself. Here's the promo material:

"Give me your lazy, your knowledge-poor,
Your muddled masses yearning to FLOOSH! dismiss,
The wretched refuse of attention-whores.
Send these, the witless dregs of vinegar and piss,
To fud themselves to Michael Moore!"

[paddybrown]

Pretty much. it's the natural companion to the privilege olympics, "Who's the bigger victim". Funny, I never saw being completely helpless as a life goal.

It's the predictable end result of the Marxist slogan "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". Minimise your abilities, maximise your needs, and you get free shit without having to lift a finger.

[paddybrown]

*SVW - Social Vengeance Wankers** - because what more do they want from Bora? The guy has lost his job, is in therapy, has made numerous apologies, is contrite to the point of near grovelling...and somehow, it just still isn't enough for them. If there was any justice that needed to be done as regards Bora, then it clearly has been done - and done in spades. Anything more is simple vengeance.

Like any bullies, they'll keep doing it until it stops working. So long as Bora keeps apologising and trying to win their forgiveness, they'll keep holding that forgiveness just out of reach. As people keep saying, the only way to win with this lot is not to play.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Pretty much. it's the natural companion to the privilege olympics, "Who's the bigger victim". Funny, I never saw being completely helpless as a life goal.

It's the predictable end result of the Marxist slogan "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". Minimise your abilities, maximise your needs, and you get free shit without having to lift a finger.

The essence of human nature in a nutshell. And the main reason Marxism is a total failure.

[JackSkeptic]

PZ has a post up on that Martin Robbins - the guest post on stoning Bora - and just from reading what PZ quoted -

Because ultimately, getting your friends and your career back shouldn’t be the goal at all. The goal should be to fix yourself, and to do everything in your power to ensure that you never find yourself back here again. That means acknowledging everything that happened – not just the stuff people have found out about so far. It means accepting that there may be situations that you need to avoid in future. It means admitting just how bad things got, and beginning a process of real, honest change to make them better.
It isn’t easy, and it may not relaunch your career or win your friends back or repair your damaged reputation. It may mean sacrifice – changing career, moving cities, accepting that you’ll never regain certain friendships – but eventually you’ll be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know that you’ve grown and improved; that you’ve made genuine progress toward a better and healthier future; that you can be proud of your achievements in the months or years since you made the decision to change.

(that's most of the post - PZ just did an Ophelia and telephoned it in) - I can guess that Martin is a bit of a loon. Probably a pretentious piece of shit as well. I think they (the SJWs) would really be happy if Bora disappeared off the Earth and away from their notice. Thus PZ definitely likes the "never find yourself back here again" bit -as in blogging, or the internet, or anywhere they look. They really do want a heavily segregated and censored society. Can we do a kickstarter to buy that land around Chernyobel for their SJW Commune, and get the CIA to rendition these idiots to it?

It's the standard shunning technique for Suppressive Persons.

[Tribble]

So, basically you're an apologist for rape apologists? That's getting getting pretty meta. If I could be assed-to-bother, I'd dig out my SJW Finger Pointing Attack Card and see which of these three categories you fit: 'worse than a rapist,' 'as bad as a rapist' or 'close to, but not quite as bad as a rapist.'

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

You work at being obtuse, don't you? You're defending the Horde and Oggie and suggesting no censure and that punishment would be wrong. For raping three children.

In short, you're apologizing for the rape apologists who are more than happy, from the safety of their keyboards and anonymitiy, to destroy lives through group shaming based on rumor or political differences. And ruin lives they have. Bora. Gelato Man. That woman (who got fired) who's husband used her work computer to send Myers a private email. And more.

I don't see how 'what I'm smoking' even comes anywhere near the reality of our prior conversation and is a meaninglesss non-sequitar designed to deflect your shitty apologetica. What's next, an essay titled The Catholic Boys Really Enjoyed It! where you defend the Catholic Church since it didn't actually do the raping? Or, perhaps, Leave Brittany The Priests Alone on behalf of the priests because they're forced to live an unnatural lifestyle if they wish to be priests?

So we're done. You clearly have nothing intelligent to say and it's going to be the same 'poor Oggie, he's a victim' thing as you continue to perpetuate classic in-group/out-group hypocrisy we see from FTB and its horde of corrupt and inept 'Paragons of Virtue."

[James Caruthers]

Because ultimately, getting your friends and your career back shouldn’t be the goal at all. The goal should be to fix yourself, and to do everything in your power to ensure that you never find yourself back here again. That means acknowledging everything that happened – not just the stuff people have found out about so far. It means accepting that there may be situations that you need to avoid in future. It means admitting just how bad things got, and beginning a process of real, honest change to make them better.
It isn’t easy, and it may not relaunch your career or win your friends back or repair your damaged reputation. It may mean sacrifice – changing career, moving cities, accepting that you’ll never regain certain friendships – but eventually you’ll be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know that you’ve grown and improved; that you’ve made genuine progress toward a better and healthier future; that you can be proud of your achievements in the months or years since you made the decision to change.

Fucking hell, I don't think actual rapists have to go through this much shit before their communities forgive them.

So let me get this straight. This SJW thinks Bora should change cities, admit to shit that never happened (acknowledging a bunch of secret shit that is assumed to have happened by the SJL, which probably didn't), accept full responsibility (for annoying a woman), change careers and still accept that the SJL will still hate him even after all of that.

Maybe when Bora fucking commits suicide for the sin of creeping out a woman, maybe then they'll consider the scales balanced. The majority of the bitching about Bora amounts to crying over hurt feels. Crying because a man whined about his personal sex problems to a woman, or that he took the focus off the woman? I dunno.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md07vb8Qg81rq1l8a.jpg
Meanwhile, back on tumblr, feminists continue to exercise their freedom of expression without facing censorship, doxxing, calls for them to change states or firing from their jobs.

I fully support the SJWs leaving to form their own societies. After a few months, I image Peezus would write an article about how cannibalism is morally defensible and actually quite healthy. A few months later, we'd find the entire commune empty except for a very overfed Stephanie Zvan.

[Tribble]

Oh, in good news, today was my wife's last radiation treatment. It's not as harsh as chemo, but man does she have one serious sunburn from it and the whole right side of her rib cage is the color of a boiled lobster. She also doesn't have to do Chemo, but may do the estrogen suppression hormonal therapy.

So, things are moving along 'fine' all things considered and it'll be quite sometime before we know if it's 'beaten' or she's got to go back under the knife.

I will pray to the Lord PeeZus for your wife. :pray:

Er, hold on, I'm a deity, so I'll bless her myself. :snooty:

That made me laugh. :)

[James Caruthers]

http://comicsalliance.com/10-diversity- ... dc-marvel/

Comics, video games and atheism. Three areas totally poisoned by SJWs.

[Tribble]

Makes me think of something I heard about U.S. censorship in movies (I am not there): If you cut off a tit you get a "R" rating. If you kiss a tit you get a "X" rating. Very strange...

Yes. I live in the USA and have been a citizen my entire life. I can't verify that particular example, but I CAN verify that when it comes to rating movies or dealing with violence/sex issues on live TV (FCC cases) violence is treated MUCH more leniently than sex.

I don't see how a single small flash of one of Janet Jackson's boobs is going to harm any kid of any age -let alone an adult. But that small flash of boob got tremendous political and social attention -arguably more than many economically or politically more pressing issues ever have.
There are times I'm ashamed of this country and the 'culture' of this country and that incident was one of them. Our 'pop' culture and our legal institutions are very schizophrenic.

My son was watching that super bowl, he was 12-13. I had run out to get dinner and called him to ask if he'd seen anything. He said "not really? I think something happened to her shirt, but you couldn't really see anything"

It wasn't until the idiots frame-by-framed it that they decided she'd darkened all the innocent forever.

I didn't even see it. I think they were boring and I was off in la-la-land not really paying any attention and waiting for the commerecials to start-up again (which are often the best part of the game).

It wasn't till the next day when it was continually shoved in my face did I know about it. And I when I did, I kept thinking, "I've seen German TV!!! That's NOTHING!!!"

[Tribble]

Tribble, I hope your wife is feeling better soon, and that you only get good news from now on. I've seen Aquaphor (a Eucerin product) recommended for relieving radiation treatment burns (and sunburns, for that matter -just a different type of radiation) on another forum that I frequent.

Meanwhile, in the land of Douch-ial Justice Warriors, Martin Robbins has a guest post on the terminally smug Janet Stemwedel's blog:

http://scientopia.org/blogs/ethicsandsc ... road-back/

about - you guessed it - the magic word redemption, and how Bora should further grovel and then be stoned to death.

Why don't they just write:

Break out the torches and pitchforks, Frankenstein's monster must suffer until we say he's had enough. And if he smokes a shotgun, we bear no collective guilt for our Internet Bullying campaign that drove him to this because We're the Paragons of Virtue and only WE CAN DECIDE when Bora comes back on the Internet and tries to get his messed-up life back together.

And be clear about it.

[paddybrown]

http://comicsalliance.com/10-diversity- ... dc-marvel/

Comics, video games and atheism. Three areas totally poisoned by SJWs.

Skimmed it (it was fairly predictable) but got a laugh from the last line:

DC and Marvel need to change the way they think about talent and start actively courting minority creators. They need to show that everyone is welcome by actually welcoming these people in.

"These people"? Gave yourself away there. Minorities aren't people, they're just Pokemon cards, gotta catch them all. Whoever ticks the most boxes is the coolest and most right on.

[Mykeru]

AHAHAHA....Did you make that Vagex 9000 advert?
Pretty good that.

I'm pretty sure Joel Veitch was a b3ta poster, before he got those advertising gigs.

Yup, Vagex, those were the carefree days of posting dumb shit to b3ta. Like inexplicable shit that I now have no idea why:

throwpeng.gif

(79.55 KiB) Downloaded 187 times

It had me giggling.

You should come up and see my etchings.

[zenbabe]

Because ultimately, getting your friends and your career back shouldn’t be the goal at all. The goal should be to fix yourself, and to do everything in your power to ensure that you never find yourself back here again. That means acknowledging everything that happened – not just the stuff people have found out about so far. It means accepting that there may be situations that you need to avoid in future. It means admitting just how bad things got, and beginning a process of real, honest change to make them better.
It isn’t easy, and it may not relaunch your career or win your friends back or repair your damaged reputation. It may mean sacrifice – changing career, moving cities, accepting that you’ll never regain certain friendships – but eventually you’ll be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know that you’ve grown and improved; that you’ve made genuine progress toward a better and healthier future; that you can be proud of your achievements in the months or years since you made the decision to change.

Fucking hell, I don't think actual rapists have to go through this much shit before their communities forgive them.

So let me get this straight. This SJW thinks Bora should change cities, admit to shit that never happened (acknowledging a bunch of secret shit that is assumed to have happened by the SJL, which probably didn't), accept full responsibility (for annoying a woman), change careers and still accept that the SJL will still hate him even after all of that.

Yeah, what they want is so extreme, yet they are convinced they are justified.
Basically, anyone who steps out of their razor thin line of acceptable behavior has forfeited their right to have money, friends, a home, a SO, or get to live in the city they want to live in.

The heartlessness of that guy's post is loud, isn't it?
Why does that guy feel that Bora shouldn't be allowed to find work again, or even retain friendships? How privileged is he to believe anyone is able to go with no income, no future income, and no emotional support system, and instead sink all energy and emotion and time into prostrating, mewling, before the heartless FCu(n)ting jerks?
So vicious.
Complete bullying behavior too, and a terrible pack mentality on display. They see a weak man made weaker, and go in for the kill.

Maybe when Bora fucking commits suicide for the sin of creeping out a woman, maybe then they'll consider the scales balanced.

Yeah, Mykeru brought this up yesterday and it's the point that sticks pretty deeply.
There was some talk about that on Twitter. Gurdur blogged about it.
http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?b=1762

[Mykeru]

http://comicsalliance.com/10-diversity- ... dc-marvel/

Comics, video games and atheism. Three areas totally poisoned by SJWs.

Diversify The Talent Pool

Yeah, don't forget Shia LaBeouf

http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/system ... 1334859468
http://comicsalliance.com/shia-lebeouf-comic-book/

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

I don't remember anyone suggesting a particular punishment for Ogvorbis. When the subject of his age at the time was raised I can recall people saying that he should be treated as less culpable than an adult would have been.
The reason his situation keeps getting raised is due to the SJW refrain of "think of the survivors" in rape accusation scenarios.
We can even ignore Ogvorbis in terms of punishment completely and still be faced with the necessity that we must "think of the survivors".

It was this line that was used to condemn Shermer, Kraus and others - even when no 'survivors' were forthcoming - or at least willing to publicly claim to be victims.

And yet in this particular case we are told to forget about it - to ignore the fact that those children were raped.
Of course to 'think of the survivors' here could not be done without rather severe consequences for Ogvorbis himself.
Presumably he is the only one who knows who the victims were and tracking them down at this point in time to offer counselling, for example, would necessarily involve Ogvorbis in some serious repercussions (most probably in terms of reputation rather than financial or criminal since it happened so long ago.)

I also recall that people here tended to think Ogvorbis was making it all up for sympathy - the incident was claimed to be a recovered memory that recently surfaced in his mind, and recovered memories are, in general, very unreliable as records of the past.

But the horde claimed to believe him.
Therefore, by their own standards they should 'think of the survivors'.
Where is the compassion shown by them for the raped children?
Where are the efforts to seek out the victims and attempt to provide closure or justice?

I fully agree that punishment is not the issue. When arguing not to pursue this matter I am basing it partly on him being 12 but mostly on it being bad form. I see this in the same manner as someone yesterday posting a picture of PZ and his daughter (and subseqently deleting it). Why go there - even if we score a rethorical point?

We go there because Oggie went there. His choice. You feel remorse about raping children, you want to atone and work through your demons. What to do? Confess on a private forum dedicated to helping people in your position or go for 'victim of the Patriarchy' points and a cookie or two on a forum of rabid losers. He's validating their rape culture hysteria and that's all most of them seem to care about.

[Hunt]

I fully support the SJWs leaving to form their own societies. After a few months, I image Peezus would write an article about how cannibalism is morally defensible and actually quite healthy. A few months later, we'd find the entire commune empty except for a very overfed Stephanie Zvan.

There's still plenty of land available in Guyana.

[Mykeru]

I fully support the SJWs leaving to form their own societies. After a few months, I image Peezus would write an article about how cannibalism is morally defensible and actually quite healthy. A few months later, we'd find the entire commune empty except for a very overfed Stephanie Zvan.

There's still plenty of land available in Guyana.

And Kool-Aid.

[zenbabe]

Yup, Vagex, those were the carefree days of posting dumb shit to b3ta. Like inexplicable shit that I now have no idea why:

throwpeng.gif

It's like a thing that's so homely it's cute.
What is that he's throwing, a gigantic beaker? Did it even weigh a pound? Why does it just appear as if by magic at his feet after he shouts his insult? Who knows. It's got that chaoticfunny thing going on.

It had me giggling.

You should come up and see my etchings.

;)
Your interests go into such dark, horrific corners of humanity and other animal life&death though.

Some would make me laugh.
Some would make me cry, feel terrible, sickened and depressed.
Some would make me laugh again.

[Ape+lust]

Every justice league git has assumed Bora is trying to claw his way back to his former career and lectured him accordingly. How do they know this? He's posted tweets, re-opened his personal blog, accepted well wishes from friends. That's it.

I don't recall this sort of shirt rending when Hugo went full Schwyzer. They adopted him after he tried to kill himself and his girlfriend (apparently the path to "redemption" isn't narrow or long for some useful idiots), and still he betrayed them. This time last year Melody and Amy were making goo-goo eyes, trying to get Hugo to join the WiSC lineup. Neither of those two will pass an opportunity to parade their hurt in public, but when he was caught fucking students... nothing.

[Tribble]

We go there because Oggie went there. His choice. You feel remorse about raping children, you want to atone and work through your demons. What to do? Confess on a private forum dedicated to helping people in your position or go for 'victim of the Patriarchy' points and a cookie or two on a forum of rabid losers. He's validating their rape culture hysteria and that's all most of them seem to care about.

In the Church I grew up in, one Sunday a month was a public confessional of how shitty you were, but how God made your life wonderful therefore "Praise God!" Prior to that Sunday you were actively encouraged to fast for 24-hours prior to your confessional atonement. (Because fasting makes you loopy and more emotional and therefore you're more likely to break-down and display your emotions (usually involving tears).)

It was all a public spectacle and the Church would rally around that 'brave soul.' Some people did it a lot, usually with vague generalities. One guy spent years talking about how he'd made an enormous pile of money (Praise Jesus!) because God had blessed him with incredible fortune as all of his investments kept getting these incredible returns, clearly a sign Jesus loved him!

Then one day he was headline news (locally anyway) for taking millions of dollars in bribes and kickbacks as a corrupt Federal Law Enforcement Agent. Which he then lied about (I was framed by Satan I tell you! Framed!) leveraged up into Church support and forgiveness right up until the day they locked him up.

That's the game that Oggie's playing.

If he actually committed these crimes and were serious, at a minimum, make amends to those girls. But he's not making amends, he's just parsimoniously doling-out his confessionals and playing the crowd for the fools they are in some emotional trolling game.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

A good case could be made that Clark, Crommunist, Physiodouchee and all are actually harrassing Bora. In the real sense of the term.

[BarnOwl]

Here are a couple of absolutely choice comments from Robbins' guest post. From Stemwedel herself:

Tim,

I[sic] would be a mistake to think that Bora hurt exactly three people here. Or that he has apologized to all the people he harmed.

I say this as someone he harmed, someone he has not apologized to as yet.

Please don't instruct me on appropriate compassion here.

This reveals what much of the smug and judgmental commentary is really about - it's about themselves, and their bizarre feelings of betrayal and of somehow having been fooled and/or tainted by association with Bora. They are very similar to the most vile and self-involved fundy religionists in this respect.

Here's a comment from Robbins:

This isn't a question of pettiness, it's an issue of safety. Bora made professional environments unsafe and uncomfortable for a number of women - considerably more than the three who spoke out, as Janet points out. He cannot be allowed back in if it's going to put others in the community at emotional or professional risk.

It isn't possible to 'move on' if the fundamental problem hasn't been addressed, and Bora's rehabilitation cannot take priority over the need to maintain a safe professional environment.

"Unsafe" professional environment? Really? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Robbins is in the UK - in London if I'm not mistaken. Say, whatever happened to the outrage and action plan for that serial groper who attends London Skeptics meetings? Groping women is creating an unsafe environment. I thought for sure the SJW would have done something about this person by now.

And the Hugo Schwyzer business -what is this I don't even. What a bunch of hypocrites and utter cnuts.

[Jan Steen]

I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:

I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.

Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

I also came across this:

http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I have no sympathy for the FTB witchhunters, who use this affair to assert their faux moral superiority, but I can understand the nagging feelings of uncertainty these women must have in light of the creepy behaviour of Mr Zivkovic. Were they really selected for their qualities as (budding) journalists or were they chosen for their looks? It's not an unreasonable question, I'd say.

[Tony Parsehole]

I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:

I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.

Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

I also came across this:

http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I have no sympathy for the FTB witchhunters, who use this affair to assert their faux moral superiority, but I can understand the nagging feelings of uncertainty these women must have in light of the creepy behaviour of Mr Zivkovic. Were they really selected for their qualities as (budding) journalists or were they chosen for their looks? It's not an unreasonable question, I'd say.

Can somebody please explain to me how whinging about somebody being rude isn't the committing the sin of "tone-policing"?

[Tony Parsehole]

Every justice league git has assumed Bora is trying to claw his way back to his former career and lectured him accordingly. How do they know this? He's posted tweets, re-opened his personal blog, accepted well wishes from friends. That's it.

I don't recall this sort of shirt rending when Hugo went full Schwyzer. They adopted him after he tried to kill himself and his girlfriend (apparently the path to "redemption" isn't narrow or long for some useful idiots), and still he betrayed them. This time last year Melody and Amy were making goo-goo eyes, trying to get Hugo to join the WiSC lineup. Neither of those two will pass an opportunity to parade their hurt in public, but when he was caught fucking students... nothing.

Good point. Why does Schwyzer always get a free pass with Melody and her ilk? It can't be his patter because it's as flat as a fart, it can't be his looks because he's the spitting-image of a second-hand teabag and it can't be his wonderful respect for womyn-kynd because LOL.

Anyway, maybe somebody who can be arsed to comment could bring this up?

[Mykeru]

Every justice league git has assumed Bora is trying to claw his way back to his former career and lectured him accordingly. How do they know this? He's posted tweets, re-opened his personal blog, accepted well wishes from friends. That's it.

I don't recall this sort of shirt rending when Hugo went full Schwyzer. They adopted him after he tried to kill himself and his girlfriend (apparently the path to "redemption" isn't narrow or long for some useful idiots), and still he betrayed them. This time last year Melody and Amy were making goo-goo eyes, trying to get Hugo to join the WiSC lineup. Neither of those two will pass an opportunity to parade their hurt in public, but when he was caught fucking students... nothing.

Good point. Why does Schwyzer always get a free pass with Melody and her ilk? It can't be his patter because it's as flat as a fart, it can't be his looks because he's the spitting-image of a second-hand teabag and it can't be his wonderful respect for womyn-kynd because LOL.

Anyway, maybe somebody who can be arsed to comment could bring this up?

Although you don't think Schwyzer is attractive, you aren't taking in account what moistens the lady-bits of fat, fugly dumb fuck 20-something hipster douchebags.

[BarnOwl]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for some of the more judgmental and sanctimonious bloggers to be employed in positions that require teaching, mentoring, and supervising young adult students and trainees. I doubt that they can turn off their compulsive and frankly pathological need to act as judge, jury, and executioner at will, and such behavior could be extremely damaging; moreover, in the US, such behavior could draw an expensive lawsuit to their institution. It's disturbing to think that they might abuse their power to influence the grades, careers, and futures of students who fall below their bizarre moral standards, or who have made mistakes without being properly "rehabilitated."

[Ape+lust]

Here are a couple of absolutely choice comments from Robbins' guest post. From Stemwedel herself:

Tim,

I[sic] would be a mistake to think that Bora hurt exactly three people here. Or that he has apologized to all the people he harmed.

I say this as someone he harmed, someone he has not apologized to as yet.

Please don't instruct me on appropriate compassion here.

This reveals what much of the smug and judgmental commentary is really about - it's about themselves, and their bizarre feelings of betrayal and of somehow having been fooled and/or tainted by association with Bora. They are very similar to the most vile and self-involved fundy religionists in this respect.

Whoo. Run that against this:

I have known Bora for years. I have respected his professional judgment. I have deep affection for him and for his wife. I count him as a friend. He has never harassed me.

http://scientopia.org/blogs/ethicsandsc ... -to-write/

So she was harmed vicariously? Or did he steal the last danish one time? Someone's really straining for victim cred.

I love the wack suggestion that Bora should change cities. That's some biblical-grade atonement there. Maybe he can explain to us how location would make any difference for someone who worked online and organized events everywhere. Won't Mr Robbins be surprised if Bora still showed up in his Twitter feed from exile in the Australian outback! It'd be like magic or something.

[BarnOwl]

So she was harmed vicariously? Or did he steal the last danish one time? Someone's really straining for victim cred.

I love the wack suggestion that Bora should change cities. That's some biblical-grade atonement there. Maybe he can explain to us how location would make any difference for someone who worked online and organized events everywhere. Won't Mr Robbins be surprised if Bora still showed up in his Twitter feed from exile in the Australian outback! It'd be like magic or something.

It's weirdly biblical-grade. Vengeance. Retribution. Angels and flaming swords. Pillars of salt and plagues of locusts upon your house, Bora. Go into the desert and partake of bitter herbs. Etc.

Bora and his wife have young children - should they be uprooted and their lives and psychological well-being further disrupted? Oh, here's another biblical reference: sins of the father. Of course the fee-fees of important bloggers like Stemwedel, Robbins, and Myers are MUCH more important than the well-being of tainted offspring. Perhaps they should be marked with spots like Jacob's cattle. :roll:

[Tony Parsehole]

http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I agree.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/1175 ... cd3a_o.gif

[zenbabe]

I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:

I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.

Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

He was just fine. Reasonable. Even rational.
My guess is that she had a bad argument, it was rebutted clearly and publicly, and she had a strong emotional reaction (felt embarrassed), for which she immediately blamed him. His fault for making her feel bad things. The mind at work of a person who can't admit mistakes, retaining, at all costs, her (false) sense of self worth.

I also came across this:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg[img]

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I have no sympathy for the FTB witchhunters, who use this affair to assert their faux moral superiority, but I can understand the nagging feelings of uncertainty these women must have in light of the creepy behaviour of Mr Zivkovic. Were they really selected for their qualities as (budding) journalists or were they chosen for their looks? It's not an unreasonable question, I'd say.

No idea. Are journalism majors generally attractive?
Attractive people create more interest, so perhaps he had broader ideas in mind than his own selfish interests (if he even cared about their looks personally at all). One of his overall goals was to get more women involved in science and scientific writing, to balance the numbers. To decrease sexism.
Best laid plans I guess. (no pun!)

[zenbabe]

I'm not sure it's appropriate for some of the more judgmental and sanctimonious bloggers to be employed in positions that require teaching, mentoring, and supervising young adult students and trainees. I doubt that they can turn off their compulsive and frankly pathological need to act as judge, jury, and executioner at will, and such behavior could be extremely damaging; moreover, in the US, such behavior could draw an expensive lawsuit to their institution. It's disturbing to think that they might abuse their power to influence the grades, careers, and futures of students who fall below their bizarre moral standards, or who have made mistakes without being properly "rehabilitated."

*nod*
I have a creeping dread that it's all going to get a great deal worse.
Irrationally hope it'll get better much sooner, but the SJWs/Feminists have gotten their hooks into so much, colleges and governments and newspapers and publishing and gaming and everywhere, and in several countries. Their momentum seems to be gaining.

The crash should be spectacular though. Hopefully the pit is still around, and we're not all rendered homeless and jobless from unrelenting doxxing and firings, so we can all enjoy the feast.

[Mykeru]

I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:

I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.

Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

He was just fine. Reasonable. Even rational.
My guess is that she had a bad argument, it was rebutted clearly and publicly, and she had a strong emotional reaction (felt embarrassed), for which she immediately blamed him. His fault for making her feel bad things. The mind at work of a person who can't admit mistakes, retaining, at all costs, her (false) sense of self worth.

I also came across this:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg[img]

Pretty much. His "rudeness" was not immediately acquiescing to the point and then doubling down by having his own opinion and being willing to argue for it. So much of what bothers SJWs is not folding. Period. The Dunning-Kruger level arrogance is manifest.

Now, for comparison, if they want to see what "extraordinarily rude" looks like, I refer them to some of my Tweets.

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I have no sympathy for the FTB witchhunters, who use this affair to assert their faux moral superiority, but I can understand the nagging feelings of uncertainty these women must have in light of the creepy behaviour of Mr Zivkovic. Were they really selected for their qualities as (budding) journalists or were they chosen for their looks? It's not an unreasonable question, I'd say.

No idea. Are journalism majors generally attractive?
Attractive people create more interest, so perhaps he had broader ideas in mind than his own selfish interests (if he even cared about their looks personally at all). One of his overall goals was to get more women involved in science and scientific writing, to balance the numbers. To decrease sexism.
Best laid plans I guess. (no pun!)

[Mykeru]

Wow, was that a fucked up quote.

[Mykeru]

Let's try that again:

I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:

I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.

Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

He was just fine. Reasonable. Even rational.
My guess is that she had a bad argument, it was rebutted clearly and publicly, and she had a strong emotional reaction (felt embarrassed), for which she immediately blamed him. His fault for making her feel bad things. The mind at work of a person who can't admit mistakes, retaining, at all costs, her (false) sense of self worth.

Pretty much. His "rudeness" was not immediately acquiescing to the point and then doubling down by having his own opinion and being willing to argue for it. So much of what bothers SJWs is not folding. Period. The Dunning-Kruger level arrogance is manifest.

Now, for comparison, if they want to see what "extraordinarily rude" looks like, I refer them to some of my Tweets.

Sonovabitch.

[zenbabe]

I love the wack suggestion that Bora should change cities. That's some biblical-grade atonement there. Maybe he can explain to us how location would make any difference for someone who worked online and organized events everywhere. Won't Mr Robbins be surprised if Bora still showed up in his Twitter feed from exile in the Australian outback! It'd be like magic or something.

:lol:

[Mykeru]

The idea of calling someone "rude", i.e., "brusque" on Twitter is ridiculous.

Also, is Bora Zivkovic Serbian? I tried to look it up but couldn't find his origins. If his original language is Serbian, or some other member of the Slavic language groups then the language itself could sound "rude" to western ears.

Look, Americans sound rude to Japanese, who speak in such a circuitous way that if you order something in a restaurant they won't come right out and say "We are out of that", they will say "Scoshi desu (We have very little)...Eeto (let me see)". In Russian, which lacks many of the articles English has (whereas Japanese has particles like ga, ni, e) it would be ridiculous to say "something as flatulent as "Would you mind passing the salt?" it would be "Give salt, please". Which is why the cartoon Boris and Natasha stereotype sounds clipped when you literally transliterate. Twitter almost makes you go to "rude" brevity that way.

The point is, I know fuck all about Serbian/Croatian culture, or how structurally it is like say, Russian, and I know next to fuck-all about that, but to completely discount what could be language or cultural differences in favor of a American-normative dog-pile seems an odd thing for diversity-warriors and people who would normally mock American exceptionalism to do.

That is, apparently one's oppressed gender privilege trumps lip service to cultural sensitivity.

[Tony Parsehole]

I love the wack suggestion that Bora should change cities. That's some biblical-grade atonement there. Maybe he can explain to us how location would make any difference for someone who worked online and organized events everywhere. Won't Mr Robbins be surprised if Bora still showed up in his Twitter feed from exile in the Australian outback! It'd be like magic or something.

:lol:

[zenbabe]

Pretty much. His "rudeness" was not immediately acquiescing to the point and then doubling down by having his own opinion and being willing to argue for it. So much of what bothers SJWs is not folding. Period. The Dunning-Kruger level arrogance is manifest.

And she can use his maleness as an example of sexism, even though nothing he said was in any way sexist (or rude). But if he was a woman she'd also react just as she did, lashing out at her "attacker". They seem to be mostly egalitarian in their anger at those who don't fold. Male or female, the claws come out. It seems more vicious when they're after a woman but I suspect my impression of that is false.

Now, for comparison, if they want to see what "extraordinarily rude" looks like, I refer them to some of my Tweets

Sonovabitch.

Are you on your phone? I double posted last week when attempting to participate from my phone, which is s.l.o.w. and I'm sure the software's out of date. I have small hands and fingers but somehow my one tap got interpreted as a fast double click or something.

[Jan Steen]

I agree.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/1175 ... cd3a_o.gif

You can leave it to Tony to get to the heart of the matter. :lol:

[zenbabe]

It's weirdly biblical-grade. Vengeance. Retribution. Angels and flaming swords. Pillars of salt and plagues of locusts upon your house, Bora. Go into the desert and partake of bitter herbs. Etc.

Bora and his wife have young children - should they be uprooted and their lives and psychological well-being further disrupted? Oh, here's another biblical reference: sins of the father. Of course the fee-fees of important bloggers like Stemwedel, Robbins, and Myers are MUCH more important than the well-being of tainted offspring. Perhaps they should be marked with spots like Jacob's cattle. :roll:

Martin Robbins is quite the heartless pig, isn't he?
We get to assume PZ agrees with him, since he hosted the post on his blog, right?
Because it feels right, in my gut, to think of PZ as a heartless pig.

[Jan Steen]

No idea. Are journalism majors generally attractive?
Attractive people create more interest, so perhaps he had broader ideas in mind than his own selfish interests (if he even cared about their looks personally at all). One of his overall goals was to get more women involved in science and scientific writing, to balance the numbers. To decrease sexism.
Best laid plans I guess. (no pun!)

He should have chosen at least one neckbearded virgin to preclude the criticism of sexism.

Seriously, though, all four of the chosen ones have distanced themselves from the guy. Would they have done that if they had been conviced that they were picked solely for their qualities as science journalists?

[zenbabe]

No idea. Are journalism majors generally attractive?
Attractive people create more interest, so perhaps he had broader ideas in mind than his own selfish interests (if he even cared about their looks personally at all). One of his overall goals was to get more women involved in science and scientific writing, to balance the numbers. To decrease sexism.
Best laid plans I guess. (no pun!)

He should have chosen at least one neckbearded virgin to preclude the criticism of sexism.

Maybe there wasn't one, the pool of males was small, or the ones that were there were bad?
I have no idea.
The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister. Not like he was all "muahahahaha Now I've got you my pretties!" about it. Could his appreciation of female beauty have influenced his decision? .. maybe so.

Seriously, though, all four of the chosen ones have distanced themselves from the guy. Would they have done that if they had been conviced that they were picked solely for their qualities as science journalists?

If they want to be part of the 'in group' of feminists? Definitely.
If they've been trained to think of sexism as continuous and prevalent and of themselves as prey to horrible men, Definitely.
It takes some courage, and a solid sense of self worth, (and maybe a few years, what are they, 20?), to stand up for the guy now. Not many are doing it, male or female.

[Mykeru]

Oh, if Bora is Serbian, I found the perfect place for the SJWs to exile him: Zabrdje.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... SX215_.jpg

http://goo.gl/ApH0rM

Of course, won't be enough. Even if he leaves his dick at U.S. customs.

[zenbabe]

:lol:

[Jan Steen]

It's weirdly biblical-grade. Vengeance. Retribution. Angels and flaming swords. Pillars of salt and plagues of locusts upon your house, Bora. Go into the desert and partake of bitter herbs. Etc.

Bora and his wife have young children - should they be uprooted and their lives and psychological well-being further disrupted? Oh, here's another biblical reference: sins of the father. Of course the fee-fees of important bloggers like Stemwedel, Robbins, and Myers are MUCH more important than the well-being of tainted offspring. Perhaps they should be marked with spots like Jacob's cattle. :roll:

Martin Robbins is quite the heartless pig, isn't he?
We get to assume PZ agrees with him, since he hosted the post on his blog, right?
Because it feels right, in my gut, to think of PZ as a heartless pig.

Peezus and his fellow SJWs operate from a Nietzschean principle: Was fällt, das soll man auch noch stoßen! That which is falling should also be pushed. If SJWs were playing football they would be the ones kicking a player who is already lying on the ground. They would even kick him or her in the groin, just because they are horrible people. And then loudly protest their innocence when the referee shows them a red card. Anyone who gives Peezus and his ilk the benefit of the doubt is an idiot.

[BarnOwl]

No idea. Are journalism majors generally attractive?
Attractive people create more interest, so perhaps he had broader ideas in mind than his own selfish interests (if he even cared about their looks personally at all). One of his overall goals was to get more women involved in science and scientific writing, to balance the numbers. To decrease sexism.
Best laid plans I guess. (no pun!)

He should have chosen at least one neckbearded virgin to preclude the criticism of sexism.

Seriously, though, all four of the chosen ones have distanced themselves from the guy. Would they have done that if they had been conviced that they were picked solely for their qualities as science journalists?

The thing that strikes me about that photo (and many, many others associated with the online science and skeptics communities) is how white their little cyberworld is. White, and a fairly uniform subset thereof. I can't get my head around how weird and limiting that must be. *shrugs*

[Jan Steen]

The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.

It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.

[JacquesCuze]

It's weirdly biblical-grade. Vengeance. Retribution. Angels and flaming swords. Pillars of salt and plagues of locusts upon your house, Bora. Go into the desert and partake of bitter herbs. Etc.

Bora and his wife have young children - should they be uprooted and their lives and psychological well-being further disrupted? Oh, here's another biblical reference: sins of the father. Of course the fee-fees of important bloggers like Stemwedel, Robbins, and Myers are MUCH more important than the well-being of tainted offspring. Perhaps they should be marked with spots like Jacob's cattle. :roll:

Martin Robbins is quite the heartless pig, isn't he?
We get to assume PZ agrees with him, since he hosted the post on his blog, right?
Because it feels right, in my gut, to think of PZ as a heartless pig.

Peezus and his fellow SJWs operate from a Nietzschean principle: Was fällt, das soll man auch noch stoßen! That which is falling should also be pushed. If SJWs were playing football they would be the ones kicking a player who is already lying on the ground. They would even kick him or her in the groin, just because they are horrible people. And then loudly protest their innocence when the referee shows them a red card. Anyone who gives Peezus and his ilk the benefit of the doubt is an idiot.

Most people don't have Robbins' privilege where they can put aside family friends, career, and life while seeking to "fixing themself" before venturing back out in the world possibly to err again as they proceed through the one fucking life they've been given.

That's very much a privileged overfed rich first world place to be.

[Jan Steen]

This Bora affair does one thing. It negates the SJW notion that "intent isn't magic." It is all about intent. Was Bora seriously concerned with improving the participation of women in science journalism, or was he merely trying to enlarge the pool of attractive young women he could hit on?

[zenbabe]

The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.

It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.

Ugh, that thing again.
I picked apart a little of it the other day here. viewtopic.php?p=153905#p153905

I find her stories terribly self-serving.

I'm still left with the opinion that Bora is weak, socially dumb, and made some stupendous errors in judgement, but isn't sinister.

[Tigzy]

"Unsafe" professional environment? Really? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Robbins is in the UK - in London if I'm not mistaken. Say, whatever happened to the outrage and action plan for that serial groper who attends London Skeptics meetings? Groping women is creating an unsafe environment. I thought for sure the SJW would have done something about this person by now.

Ah yes - that was the Skeptics in The Pub serial groper. However, the guy who's name just somehow kept cropping up just happened to be a rather wealthy libel lawyer. As such, Ophie over at FTB decided it would, er, probably be wrong to point out the guy on her blog, because, um, you know, it's only hearsay and that.

I was watching it unfold on her blog at the time - I never saw so many posts get memory holed in so short a space of time. :-D

So yes - the FTBers are all for boldly sticking it to the man, as long as the man in question can't fight back.

[Clarence]

The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.

It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.

Even if you believe her story about Bora's behavior she seems like a nutty wanna-be victim.
The only 'sinister' thing I see in any of this is how just about any interaction with her could result in one being accused of harassment or worse. She has a fucking post up called "The Insidious Power of Not Quite Harassment" for fucksake!

You do know the "sexual harrasment" laws at least in the USA are very much in the "eye of the beholder", don't you? This is a very good example of the current lunacy.

[Clarence]

The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.

It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.

Ugh, that thing again.
I picked apart a little of it the other day here. viewtopic.php?p=153905#p153905

I find her stories terribly self-serving.

I'm still left with the opinion that Bora is weak, socially dumb, and made some stupendous errors in judgement, but isn't sinister.

It's nice to be reminded that there are some sane or fair-minded females when it comes to these issues occasionally. Right now this sort of thing gives women tremendous social power often backed by legal and financial repercussions. However, as time goes on not only will more and more women be caught in these kind of snares (though never as much as males we simply, on average don't complain as much and aren't taken as seriously when we do) thus giving both sexes the wonderful experience of living in a panopticon where every silly mistake they've made in love or lust will be examined and judged, but more and more mothers and sisters and girlfriends will find their loved ones harmed by this level of craziness.
As mentioned here before, Bora has two children and a wife. Even if his intentions were the worst (sleazy, but I can't imagine he ever was going to RAPE someone) just how much does this guy have to suffer for bad judgement or (in the grand scheme of things) rather minor bad behavior?

[Ape+lust]

The thing that strikes me about that photo (and many, many others associated with the online science and skeptics communities) is how white their little cyberworld is. White, and a fairly uniform subset thereof. I can't get my head around how weird and limiting that must be. *shrugs*

Yeah, it always looks weird to me too. If there's a Garcia in the bunch, they must be Spanish or Mennonite Mexican, because I'm not seeing them. And these are the people endlessly bringing us the gift of "diversity." Shit morons, there's diversity if you want it, it's just happening wherever you're not.

They're really tickled with the novelty of a few people who don't quite look like them in their midst. Well, they can come on down anytime and thrill to the spectacle of un-whiteness. They'd just better leave that "people of color" shit behind, because it'll only rope in other justice warriors. Everyone else will wonder where the visitors from 1955 came from.