Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

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Clarence
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#661

Post by Clarence »

Tigzy wrote:So yes - the FTBers are all for boldly sticking it to the man, as long as the man in question can't fight back.
So far to me this is the quote of the thread in a sea of excellence!

zenbabe
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#662

Post by zenbabe »

Ape!

That was glorious.
And this line "there's diversity if you want it, it's just happening wherever you're not."
is just... :laughing-rolling:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#663

Post by Ape+lust »

WTF, Parsehole?!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Clarence
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#664

Post by Clarence »

welch wrote:
Clarence wrote:
murtzuphlus wrote:Makes me think of something I heard about U.S. censorship in movies (I am not there): If you cut off a tit you get a "R" rating. If you kiss a tit you get a "X" rating. Very strange...
Yes. I live in the USA and have been a citizen my entire life. I can't verify that particular example, but I CAN verify that when it comes to rating movies or dealing with violence/sex issues on live TV (FCC cases) violence is treated MUCH more leniently than sex.

I don't see how a single small flash of one of Janet Jackson's boobs is going to harm any kid of any age -let alone an adult. But that small flash of boob got tremendous political and social attention -arguably more than many economically or politically more pressing issues ever have.
There are times I'm ashamed of this country and the 'culture' of this country and that incident was one of them. Our 'pop' culture and our legal institutions are very schizophrenic.
My son was watching that super bowl, he was 12-13. I had run out to get dinner and called him to ask if he'd seen anything. He said "not really? I think something happened to her shirt, but you couldn't really see anything"

It wasn't until the idiots frame-by-framed it that they decided she'd darkened all the innocent forever.
Yes, I remember that Superbowl, and I remember that one could not see that r/t because it happened so fast.
It had to be pointed out and posted on the internet before I got to see some Jackson titty, and even then I swear (been years and I've never looked it up since) she had like some sort of stick on star(not a blur or photoshop over but it looked like an actual sticker like you'd put in a pastebook) over the nipple, which if true would kind of support the meme it was an intentional "accident". Kinda wished it was both of them and had happened back when Janet was at her very hottest right about the time of Rhythm Nation, lol.
It was even more ridiculous when one considers that. It wasn't even as explicit as Miley's pathetic 'twerk', and technically Miss Miley kept all her clothes on, so what does that tell you?

What it tells me is that the people who 'police' the entertainment industries are downright crazy.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#665

Post by Mykeru »

Tigzy wrote:
So yes - the FTBers are all for boldly sticking it to the man, as long as the man in question can't fight back.
Isn't that one of the signature feature of witch hunts, that they punch down? Even if someone was on a pedestal, the witch hunt knocks them off so everyone can have a go.

In the modern witch hunt of the Wenatchee child abuse prosecutions, the ones who were prosecuted and jailed and remained in jail were the poor and those of marginal intelligence.

For some strange reason, those who could fight back, both with will and resources, and didn't fall into the "say what they want to hear so they will go away" trap, often never made it to charges being brought.

Bora seems stuck in the phase of "saying what they want to hear to appease them" stage, which won't end well.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#666

Post by Tribble »

Jan Steen wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

Really? None of them are 'ugly' but only one of them is 'good looking' with the others being average-sh. When I look at them from a 'looks' standpoint, from left to right it's:

1. Skinny, flat-chested girl who looks way too much like Peyton Manning...
2. Good looking girl, if short.
3. Girl with good body, but there's something off-putting about her facial bone structure.
4. Girl who blends into the background more-often-than-not and is usually the girl 'settled for' by the 'least liked guy' on a night of bar hopping.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#667

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Tigzy wrote:
BarnOwl wrote: "Unsafe" professional environment? Really? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Robbins is in the UK - in London if I'm not mistaken. Say, whatever happened to the outrage and action plan for that serial groper who attends London Skeptics meetings? Groping women is creating an unsafe environment. I thought for sure the SJW would have done something about this person by now.
Ah yes - that was the Skeptics in The Pub serial groper. However, the guy who's name just somehow kept cropping up just happened to be a rather wealthy libel lawyer. As such, Ophie over at FTB decided it would, er, probably be wrong to point out the guy on her blog, because, um, you know, it's only hearsay and that.

I was watching it unfold on her blog at the time - I never saw so many posts get memory holed in so short a space of time. :-D

So yes - the FTBers are all for boldly sticking it to the man, as long as the man in question can't fight back.
I wish those deleted posts had been Freezepaged...

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#668

Post by Tony Parsehole »

zenbabe wrote:Ape!

That was glorious.
And this line "there's diversity if you want it, it's just happening wherever you're not."
is just... :laughing-rolling:
Aye, he's on fire today. I want what he's having.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#669

Post by Southern »

Clarence wrote:
Tigzy wrote:So yes - the FTBers are all for boldly sticking it to the man, as long as the man in question can't fight back.
So far to me this is the quote of the thread in a sea of excellence!
Precisely. That's why they kinda ignore Thunderf00t, Scott Adams, or even that twat Amazing Atheist.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#670

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Weird. I'd say the one on the right is the pretty one.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#671

Post by Jan Steen »

zenbabe wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
zenbabe wrote: The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.
It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.
Ugh, that thing again.
I picked apart a little of it the other day here. viewtopic.php?p=153905#p153905

I find her stories terribly self-serving.

I'm still left with the opinion that Bora is weak, socially dumb, and made some stupendous errors in judgement, but isn't sinister.
Yes, Kathleen's story is self-serving, painting every interaction with Bora as something ominous. I agree with most of what you wrote there. At the same time, this story shows that Bora knew her personally and had a crush on Kathleen already when he selected her for that science forum. Which makes his motivation for choosing her dubious at best. And since this is not the only such story, it makes me conclude that this Bora guy is something of a creep.

At the same time, the amount of self-flagellation required of him has long transcended into the ridiculous.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#672

Post by Ape+lust »

zenbabe wrote:Ape!

That was glorious.
And this line "there's diversity if you want it, it's just happening wherever you're not."
is just... :laughing-rolling:
:D Cheers to you, zenbabe! The first one who lands a job in the southern half of the country is going to be mortified when a "person of color" calls them racist for the paternal shit they spew. It'll happen eventually, if it hasn't already.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#673

Post by Mykeru »

Also (because I love also posts) to witch hunt right, you air vague charges against the sacrificial goat and then all open-ended like, solicit people to submit their tales of outrage. Worked wonders for the McMartin Preschool case: From one bullshit tale of an alcoholic psychotic woman, suddenly all these other tales rolled in and so, of course, "got to be something to it", rape buses, rape flying saucers and all.

Isn't that what happened with Bora Zivkovic, MIchael Shermer in this witchhunt? As soon as some apparent blood was in their air, suddenly a flood of revisionist just-so stories about the accused appear.

And Kathleen Raven's seemingly revisionist account need the context of the accusations. If you read what she wrote/revised without it being put in the context of "this guy accused" would you consider it harassment, or just an awkward and somewhat pathetic guy? She even prompts whether or not he wanted to sleep with her, it's not like he made a flying advance on his own, and the extent of her prompting, or whether the conversation, by someone who considers someone noticing she missed a spot shaving her legs counts as harassment, we can't really know. My guess, as I said before, is that this was the collision of a couple damaged people.

Unless, of course, you consider these ad hoc tales solicited in an atmosphere of SJW dog-piling to be beyond question.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#674

Post by Clarence »

Tribble wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

Really? None of them are 'ugly' but only one of them is 'good looking' with the others being average-sh. When I look at them from a 'looks' standpoint, from left to right it's:

1. Skinny, flat-chested girl who looks way too much like Peyton Manning...
2. Good looking girl, if short.
3. Girl with good body, but there's something off-putting about her facial bone structure.
4. Girl who blends into the background more-often-than-not and is usually the girl 'settled for' by the 'least liked guy' on a night of bar hopping.
Tribble, OUCH!
Still, mostly accurate from most guys point of view.
Personally, I find all of them boner worthy even though the one on the far right is by far the most plain and 'fattest'.
But then I took this test : hxtp://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/female-beauty-from-1-to-10-2/ (replace x with 't' and cut and paste if you wanna go there) and while I admit the place is rather horrible it does have its points. Anyway, I consistently (except for the outlier 1's and 2's) ranked the ladies 1 point above the average, so maybe I'm just a little nicer or more attracted to faces or something. I certainly wouldn't throw any of these women near Bora out of my bed, and honestly, picking among them would be personality and smarts because they all meet my minimum beauty standard. The real problem is that at least one of if not more of those 4 is a crazy SJW, and one wants to avoid crazy.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#675

Post by Mykeru »

Also, also, this is why you stick to walking on the sidewalk in daytime only, take the stairs whenever possible and feign mutism and deafness in the presence of women.

Otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

Clarence
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#676

Post by Clarence »

Then again, one can read me saying that Rebecca Watson is 'bangable' , in the comments section here : http://traditionalchristianity.wordpres ... vatorgate/

I hang my head in shame and will accept a temporary revocation of my mancard.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#677

Post by zenbabe »

Jan Steen wrote:
Yes, Kathleen's story is self-serving, painting every interaction with Bora as something ominous. I agree with most of what you wrote there. At the same time, this story shows that Bora knew her personally and had a crush on Kathleen already when he selected her for that science forum. Which makes his motivation for choosing her dubious at best. And since this is not the only such story, it makes me conclude that this Bora guy is something of a creep.
Entirely possible we're debating the number of angels on the head of a pin.
At the same time, the amount of self-flagellation required of him has long transcended into the ridiculous.
Indeed!

[youtube]e4q6eaLn2mY[/youtube]

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#678

Post by Mykeru »

Clarence wrote:
Tribble wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

Really? None of them are 'ugly' but only one of them is 'good looking' with the others being average-sh. When I look at them from a 'looks' standpoint, from left to right it's:

1. Skinny, flat-chested girl who looks way too much like Peyton Manning...
2. Good looking girl, if short.
3. Girl with good body, but there's something off-putting about her facial bone structure.
4. Girl who blends into the background more-often-than-not and is usually the girl 'settled for' by the 'least liked guy' on a night of bar hopping.
Tribble, OUCH!
Still, mostly accurate from most guys point of view.
Personally, I find all of them boner worthy even though the one on the far right is by far the most plain and 'fattest'.
But then I took this test : hxtp://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/female-beauty-from-1-to-10-2/ (replace x with 't' and cut and paste if you wanna go there) and while I admit the place is rather horrible it does have its points. Anyway, I consistently (except for the outlier 1's and 2's) ranked the ladies 1 point above the average, so maybe I'm just a little nicer or more attracted to faces or something. I certainly wouldn't throw any of these women near Bora out of my bed, and honestly, picking among them would be personality and smarts because they all meet my minimum beauty standard. The real problem is that at least one of if not more of those 4 is a crazy SJW, and one wants to avoid crazy.
I would only be interested in their minds, which is why I would bring a bone saw to the cons.

http://www.bjwinslow.com/albums/torture ... _1500s.jpg

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#679

Post by Some Lurker »

Tigzy wrote: However, the guy who's name just somehow kept cropping up just happened to be a rather wealthy libel lawyer.
Who? Anyone well known?
I wasn't around when that came to light.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#680

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Jan Steen wrote:I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:
I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.


Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.

I also came across this:

http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

I have no sympathy for the FTB witchhunters, who use this affair to assert their faux moral superiority, but I can understand the nagging feelings of uncertainty these women must have in light of the creepy behaviour of Mr Zivkovic. Were they really selected for their qualities as (budding) journalists or were they chosen for their looks? It's not an unreasonable question, I'd say.
To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.

I have a hard time imagining that those four - who are not exactly plain looking, but none of them seem more than average to me - are the very best looking female science journalists around.
Indeed pick out any four women from a journalist class in university and I hazard a guess that you'll get a couple who are far better looking than any of the four. Of course that's a subjective opinion, and given that we generally tend to discuss the likes of Watson, McCreight, Ophelia, Svan and Marcotte here, the aforementioned quartet come across as relative supermodels. Bora may have promoted these four, but he's also promoted the likes of Christie Wilcox and Danielle Lee - neither of whom are what would traditionally be termed 'beautiful'.

I tend to see his behaviour as more amateurish rather than creepy. Just a few years back he had a small blog that talked about circadian rhythm research. He got the idea of creating an annual 'best of science blogging' book that became popular (at least amongst his fellow science bloggers) and then got offered a job by PlOS running their online community, later switching over to the same role at the Scientific American network. But this happened over a fairly short timescale.
He took on a role and position in the scienceblogging community that had no precedent. There was no training or advice available for what he was about to do because nobody had had that position before. The most similar role might be that of an editor and I guess that is how he is being judged but I tend to see that as unfair. Bora never had the sort of power (or pay, or security) that an editor has. And he had no way of having the kind of legal backup that an editor has to protect him from accusations.
It seems to me that when Byrne first made the complaint about Bora she did so directly to his Scientific American bosses, who immediately ordered him to apologize. And it was this apology that did him in. Once he apologized he had signed away any rights he had to a fair hearing. I presume his bosses might have thought that this was a minor thing and that a private apology would be the end of it but I find it hard to believe they would do the same thing if their own reputation or money was on the line, rather than Bora's.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#681

Post by Lsuoma »

Mykeru wrote:Also (because I love also posts) to witch hunt right, you air vague charges against the sacrificial goat and then all open-ended like, solicit people to submit their tales of outrage. Worked wonders for the McMartin Preschool case: From one bullshit tale of an alcoholic psychotic woman, suddenly all these other tales rolled in and so, of course, "got to be something to it", rape buses, rape flying saucers and all.
Simpsons did it. Homer Badman

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#682

Post by Ape+lust »

Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#683

Post by zenbabe »

Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Before clicking on the link I'm laughing!
This is going to be like Justicar's dramatic reading of : Where are MY hugs?
Isn't it

Lurker

Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#684

Post by Lurker »

Why was Andrew69 photoshopped into that image? Thats just plain mean.
The time passed should in it self be enough to bring forgiveness and redemption for his honking past.

Clarence
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#685

Post by Clarence »

Mykeru wrote: I would only be interested in their minds, which is why I would bring a bone saw to the cons.

http://www.bjwinslow.com/albums/torture ... _1500s.jpg
:D :lol: :clap: Thanks, Mykeru, you CNUT!

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#686

Post by Tribble »

Clarence wrote:
Tribble wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/wILqp7S.jpg

Given that these journalists were handpicked by Bora Zivkovic and given what we know about his behaviour it is hard to escape the impression that he has been studying their looks at least as diligently as their writings.

Really? None of them are 'ugly' but only one of them is 'good looking' with the others being average-sh. When I look at them from a 'looks' standpoint, from left to right it's:

1. Skinny, flat-chested girl who looks way too much like Peyton Manning...
2. Good looking girl, if short.
3. Girl with good body, but there's something off-putting about her facial bone structure.
4. Girl who blends into the background more-often-than-not and is usually the girl 'settled for' by the 'least liked guy' on a night of bar hopping.
Tribble, OUCH!
Still, mostly accurate from most guys point of view.
Personally, I find all of them boner worthy even though the one on the far right is by far the most plain and 'fattest'.
But then I took this test : hxtp://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/female-beauty-from-1-to-10-2/ (replace x with 't' and cut and paste if you wanna go there) and while I admit the place is rather horrible it does have its points. Anyway, I consistently (except for the outlier 1's and 2's) ranked the ladies 1 point above the average, so maybe I'm just a little nicer or more attracted to faces or something. I certainly wouldn't throw any of these women near Bora out of my bed, and honestly, picking among them would be personality and smarts because they all meet my minimum beauty standard. The real problem is that at least one of if not more of those 4 is a crazy SJW, and one wants to avoid crazy.
They're not ugly and, if I were single and in the correct age range, three of the four I'd date if I thought there was more to them than their looks and/or casual sex. But if we're going to advance the proposition that they were hired for their looks... I just don't see it. They're just not 'hot chicks' or 'booth babes' and I can't see any of them actually (rationally) thinking they're all that and a bag of chips therefore that's why they were hired.

I think Bora had a mission --- get more women into science writing. I think most of the ones who wanted to get into the field of science writing were young women who had no portfolio. I think he championed them. I think the rest is projection and assertion and I have yet to see anyone make a good case.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#687

Post by Ape+lust »

zenbabe wrote:
Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Before clicking on the link I'm laughing!
This is going to be like Justicar's dramatic reading of : Where are MY hugs?
Isn't it
The oily cooing from the vultures who started the "doubt" thing is hilarious, but it sure isn't much comfort for her. They planted the doubt, now the best they can offer is, "We're so sorry (you were too ugly to be hired)." Flippin' nitwits.

If hiring by merit is their concern, there should be a hashtag for women worried about being placemarkers for correct gender ratios. With all the squalling from Melody, Rebecca, Stephanie, and Ophelia about hire-more-women, fix-it-NOW, there should be plenty of doubts.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#688

Post by Sulman »

Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Jesus Wept. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

There are some fucking judgemental shitbags in that reply stream, too. Nothing worse than a bleeding heart on a crusade.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#689

Post by Clarence »

Mykeru wrote:Also (because I love also posts) to witch hunt right, you air vague charges against the sacrificial goat and then all open-ended like, solicit people to submit their tales of outrage. Worked wonders for the McMartin Preschool case: From one bullshit tale of an alcoholic psychotic woman, suddenly all these other tales rolled in and so, of course, "got to be something to it", rape buses, rape flying saucers and all.

Isn't that what happened with Bora Zivkovic, MIchael Shermer in this witchhunt? As soon as some apparent blood was in their air, suddenly a flood of revisionist just-so stories about the accused appear.

And Kathleen Raven's seemingly revisionist account need the context of the accusations. If you read what she wrote/revised without it being put in the context of "this guy accused" would you consider it harassment, or just an awkward and somewhat pathetic guy? She even prompts whether or not he wanted to sleep with her, it's not like he made a flying advance on his own, and the extent of her prompting, or whether the conversation, by someone who considers someone noticing she missed a spot shaving her legs counts as harassment, we can't really know. My guess, as I said before, is that this was the collision of a couple damaged people.

Unless, of course, you consider these ad hoc tales solicited in an atmosphere of SJW dog-piling to be beyond question.

Well, yes, but it wasn't just vague accusations that got the MM preschool case up and running into hell, but the leading questions they asked all those impressionable, easily confused little kids. Take a little kids answer and consider it a symbol for something else (the children told all sorts of obviously fanciful tales) and you can take that rocket wherever you want to go.

You'd have thought the legal and political culture would have learned from the preschool and Satanic Ritual Abuse paranoia of the 80's /early 90's. Instead it seems the irrationality has actually been imported into more sectors of law and culture, while old memes (mostly debunked) like Recovered Memory Therapy seem to have a sort of 'afterlife'. This isn't looking good :(

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#690

Post by windy »

Where am I? What year is this? Is this thing on? Oh, look, more drama.
zenbabe wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:I’ve been reading up a bit about the Bora affair and came across this post by Maryn McKenna. She writes, among many other things:
I find Kelly’s compassionate and thoughtful tone remarkable given that Zivkovic was extraordinarily publicly rude to her last year.


Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.
He was just fine. Reasonable. Even rational.
My guess is that she had a bad argument, it was rebutted clearly and publicly, and she had a strong emotional reaction (felt embarrassed), for which she immediately blamed him. His fault for making her feel bad things. The mind at work of a person who can't admit mistakes, retaining, at all costs, her (false) sense of self worth.
I don't think either of them made their case very well, but Bora seemed more emotional than her in that exchange (if you look up all the related tweets). Apparently this Kelly person was disappointed in the quality of some SciAm blogs and hoped they would pick more experts, Bora blustered a bit and said the lack of expertise doesn't matter since the commenters would step in and correct any errors.
Maybe, if he had focused on hiring experts to blog about things they actually know about, instead of picking bright young things that are fun to party with but often seem to be incredibly insecure about themselves, he wouldn't be in such a mess now? Just a thought.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#691

Post by Clarence »

Tribble wrote: They're not ugly and, if I were single and in the correct age range, three of the four I'd date if I thought there was more to them than their looks and/or casual sex. But if we're going to advance the proposition that they were hired for their looks... I just don't see it. They're just not 'hot chicks' or 'booth babes' and I can't see any of them actually (rationally) thinking they're all that and a bag of chips therefore that's why they were hired.

I think Bora had a mission --- get more women into science writing. I think most of the ones who wanted to get into the field of science writing were young women who had no portfolio. I think he championed them. I think the rest is projection and assertion and I have yet to see anyone make a good case.
Well, here's where we disagree a bit based on the fact that (except for the very outliers) there really is a subjective concept to beauty. I think the lady second from the left could be a boothbabe and the one on the far left could be IF she (because everyone knows one of the requirements is big breasts even though I could personally care less)had some padding in her shirt.
Both of their faces are very pretty and I love their hair.
Personally I think glasses gal is cute too but by normal (if crappy) beauty standards glasses are a detriment and I will admit that to me, even without the glasses she's not quite hot enough to be a boothbabe.
But I'd still love for her to be my naughty student or Dominant younger professor :P

And I'm sure for pretty much all the ladies that they'd find me creepy and almost as old (40, after all, to people between 15 and 25 is ANCIENT) as Bora, so you can see I'm trying to give my fair impression.

Not a big deal really and not something I want to argue about. You'll note that if you look into my comments about RW's "hawtness" I didn't start that conversation.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#692

Post by zenbabe »

Tribble wrote: They're not ugly and, if I were single and in the correct age range, three of the four I'd date if I thought there was more to them than their looks and/or casual sex. But if we're going to advance the proposition that they were hired for their looks... I just don't see it. They're just not 'hot chicks' or 'booth babes' and I can't see any of them actually (rationally) thinking they're all that and a bag of chips therefore that's why they were hired.
They probably have people in their lives who love them and tell them they're beautiful.

Those girls are all attractive, on a purely superficial level. In addition, they might be relatively smart, charming in person, have a great laugh, exude confidence, what have you, that would allow them to rationally think that a man is interested in having an excuse for greater access to them.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#693

Post by debaser71 »

Attractiveness matters. Such is life. Either present yourself better (be clean, groom properly, exercise, eat healthy, etc) or less skilled but more attractive people will get your gigs.

Also, where are the guys trying to get gigs doing science blogging?

And, if "nice guys" feel a sense of entitlement then what do these "good writer gals" who don't get the gig feel?

Anyway I don't really care about Bora and his bloggers. To me, if you play with fire, you should be prepared to get burned.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#694

Post by zenbabe »

windy wrote:Where am I? What year is this? Is this thing on? Oh, look, more drama.
Happy New Year windy :)
zenbabe wrote:
Jan Steen wrote: Now, can somebody please explain to me in which way Zivkovic was even slightly rude, let alone “extraordinarily publicly rude” in that Twitter exchange? I honestly don’t see it. Perhaps my cis white male privilege is blinding me? I’d rather say that Zivkovic was extraordinarily patient and polite here.
He was just fine. Reasonable. Even rational.
My guess is that she had a bad argument, it was rebutted clearly and publicly, and she had a strong emotional reaction (felt embarrassed), for which she immediately blamed him. His fault for making her feel bad things. The mind at work of a person who can't admit mistakes, retaining, at all costs, her (false) sense of self worth.
I don't think either of them made their case very well, but Bora seemed more emotional than her in that exchange (if you look up all the related tweets). Apparently this Kelly person was disappointed in the quality of some SciAm blogs and hoped they would pick more experts, Bora blustered a bit and said the lack of expertise doesn't matter since the commenters would step in and correct any errors.
That last tweet is emotional.
Seriously? Seriously.
Did you find him to be rude though? Or even extraordinarily rude?
Maybe, if he had focused on hiring experts to blog about things they actually know about, instead of picking bright young things that are fun to party with but often seem to be incredibly insecure about themselves, he wouldn't be in such a mess now? Just a thought.
:lol:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#695

Post by Sulman »

Jan Steen wrote:
zenbabe wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
zenbabe wrote: The picture doesn't strike me as evidence of anything actually sinister.
It does to me if you read what was written by Kathleen Raven, who is the woman second from left:

https://medium.com/the-power-of-harassment/3e809dfadd77

But that is hindsight, admittedly.
Ugh, that thing again.
I picked apart a little of it the other day here. viewtopic.php?p=153905#p153905

I find her stories terribly self-serving.

I'm still left with the opinion that Bora is weak, socially dumb, and made some stupendous errors in judgement, but isn't sinister.
Yes, Kathleen's story is self-serving, painting every interaction with Bora as something ominous. I agree with most of what you wrote there. At the same time, this story shows that Bora knew her personally and had a crush on Kathleen already when he selected her for that science forum. Which makes his motivation for choosing her dubious at best. And since this is not the only such story, it makes me conclude that this Bora guy is something of a creep.

At the same time, the amount of self-flagellation required of him has long transcended into the ridiculous.
He undoubtedly is. It's curious in all these cases though (there was a comics scene scandal almost note for note similar recently) that there is a consistent lack of assertiveness on all sides, and a passive aggressive blog post afterwards.

Also, the notion of power differential is a convenient fiction. One drama blog and the person's reputation is toast. That's power.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#696

Post by Old_ones »

Mykeru wrote:The idea of calling someone "rude", i.e., "brusque" on Twitter is ridiculous.

Also, is Bora Zivkovic Serbian? I tried to look it up but couldn't find his origins. If his original language is Serbian, or some other member of the Slavic language groups then the language itself could sound "rude" to western ears. (snip)
Yeah, Bora lists himself as Serbian (Yugoslavia at the time) by birth. http://coturnix.org/

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#697

Post by Tigzy »

Some Lurker wrote:
Tigzy wrote: However, the guy who's name just somehow kept cropping up just happened to be a rather wealthy libel lawyer.
Who? Anyone well known?
I wasn't around when that came to light.
This was the guy who was mooted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Allen_Green

Course, we'll never know if the SITP mystery groper was him or not, cos it was just hearsay. And apparently, Ophie doesn't go by just hearsay.

Except when it's someone powerless, of course, like the purported upskirt camera guy.

Pity, cos David Allen Green versus, uh, Ken at Popehat would be kinda funny to see.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#698

Post by zenbabe »

Ape+lust wrote: The oily cooing from the vultures who started the "doubt" thing is hilarious, but it sure isn't much comfort for her. They planted the doubt, now the best they can offer is, "We're so sorry (you were too ugly to be hired)." Flippin' nitwits.
Wow. You weren't kidding about the "oily", nor about the subtext riddled within every tweet.
Those poor things probably don't even get to pointedly ignore random strange men while in line for a coffee.
Unless they're the famous ones, eh?

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#699

Post by Jan Steen »

Dick Strawkins wrote: I have a hard time imagining that those four - who are not exactly plain looking, but none of them seem more than average to me - are the very best looking female science journalists around.
If he had simply chosen the four best looking women his rigging the game would have been a little too obvious. He knew at least one of the four personally (the one whom even Tribble calls good looking, if short), and there is a conspicuous absence of the overweight, ugly or male-gendered. Not to mention PoC. It could still be a coincidence that all four are relatively attractive young white women, but the accounts of his behaviour, while undoubtedly biased, do make it likely to me that the selection process has involved more than just the relevant capabilities of the candidates.

:bjarte:

Just because he is the victim of a witch hunt doesn't mean he isn't a witch. :lol:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#700

Post by Ape+lust »

Someone who sounds very, very much like ElevatorGATE is very busy on the RipplesOfDoubt imposter account right now. The justice league is very, very angry about it :lol:

http://imgur.com/eY4dTr7.png

https://twitter.com/RipplesOfDoubt

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#701

Post by Git »

Gumby wrote:
murtzuphlus wrote:
Southern wrote: I demand you write an infinite amount of blog posts apologizing, while I tell you that your apologies aren't worth a shit. Now go and do it, Bora murtzuphlus!
I don't think you realise that was a classic case of not-apologizing. And you don't really want an infinite amont of blog posts from me. I am pretty sure you are annoyed already.
Southern is always annoyed. That's kinda his thing.
She. She's a she.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#702

Post by Tigzy »

Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Holy shit, that is beautiful :lol:

'It's terrible that Bora only picked women who were good looking...and it's every bit as terrible that he didn't pick me!' *sob*

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#703

Post by Karmakin »

zenbabe wrote:
Tribble wrote: They're not ugly and, if I were single and in the correct age range, three of the four I'd date if I thought there was more to them than their looks and/or casual sex. But if we're going to advance the proposition that they were hired for their looks... I just don't see it. They're just not 'hot chicks' or 'booth babes' and I can't see any of them actually (rationally) thinking they're all that and a bag of chips therefore that's why they were hired.
They probably have people in their lives who love them and tell them they're beautiful.

Those girls are all attractive, on a purely superficial level. In addition, they might be relatively smart, charming in person, have a great laugh, exude confidence, what have you, that would allow them to rationally think that a man is interested in having an excuse for greater access to them.
This is actually my thought as well. They all exhibit all those personality traits and that might lead somebody to think that they were legitimately the best candidates for a given position or role. While there is still some bit of "creepiness" to it all, it's at a very subconscious level more than likely.

People tend to have a more positive reaction to attractive people, either physically or socially. That's the way the world works. Maybe it SHOULDN'T be that way, but good fucking luck changing it.

And yes, to a lot of people out there women, both physically and socially, are flat-out more attractive than men. Actually, I do think that a lot of the shit that you see out there that people complain about is society holding women to this higher standard.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#704

Post by Gumby »

Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Well, there's another no-win they've set up for themselves.

"I was only hired because the boss thinks I'm hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

"I wasn't hired because the boss didn't think I was hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

Sometimes I think the engine of feminist social justice runs on highly refined rage tears - rage tears capable of producing an almost 100% mass-to-energy conversion rate.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#705

Post by Gumby »

Tigzy wrote: 'It's terrible that Bora only picked women who were good looking...and it's every bit as terrible that he didn't pick me!' *sob*
Ninja'd!

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#706

Post by Gumby »

Git wrote:
She. She's a she.
Southern didn't correct me, so fuck it I'm all confused now. From now on I'll just regard Southern as a complete and utter s/h/it.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#707

Post by Karmakin »

Gumby wrote:
Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Well, there's another no-win they've set up for themselves.

"I was only hired because the boss thinks I'm hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

"I wasn't hired because the boss didn't think I was hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

Sometimes I think the engine of feminist social justice runs on highly refined rage tears - rage tears capable of producing an almost 100% mass-to-energy conversion rate.
One of the places where I think this sort of strict moralism is actually a very toxic thing is in how it deals with this sort of dualism. We might call it hypocrisy, but I don't think that really fits...as well to be honest I think that hypocrisy is too negative of a term for something that is both natural and if done properly, healthy.

These women both want to be acknowledge for their physical beauty and at the same time have it as being completely irrelevant. The concept that people very well can be both, and one doesn't diminish the other in the slightest is the biggest bit of denial going through that particular movement.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#708

Post by Really? »

Gumby wrote:
Ape+lust wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:To conclude they were chosen for their looks is impossible to say without seeing who Bora didn't pick.
Here's one, with tears:



When the justice mob started the #ripplesofdoubt hashtag for women who wondered if they were only hired for their fuckability, they probably didn't consider what it suggested to those who got passed on.
Well, there's another no-win they've set up for themselves.

"I was only hired because the boss thinks I'm hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

"I wasn't hired because the boss didn't think I was hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

Sometimes I think the engine of feminist social justice runs on highly refined rage tears - rage tears capable of producing an almost 100% mass-to-energy conversion rate.
This is the very first time in history that women have been unclear with respect to what they want and have been angry upon receiving what they asked for at some point.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#709

Post by zenbabe »

Really? wrote: This is the very first time in history that women have been unclear with respect to what they want and have been angry upon receiving what they asked for at some point.
:lol:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#710

Post by Gumby »

Really? wrote: This is the very first time in history that women have been unclear with respect to what they want and have been angry upon receiving what they asked for at some point.
http://www.troll.me/images/futurama-fry ... r-tone.jpg

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#711

Post by dogen »

Karmakin wrote: These women both want to be acknowledge for their physical beauty and at the same time have it as being completely irrelevant. The concept that people very well can be both, and one doesn't diminish the other in the slightest is the biggest bit of denial going through that particular movement.
I think it's a bit more subtle than that. They want to be acknowledged for their physical beauty (and hit upon) by men they find attractive. But for men that they don't find attractive, they want their beauty to be invisible to avoid being hit upon. It's this "having your cake and eating it, but not getting fat" utopia they seek.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#712

Post by zenbabe »

Ape+lust wrote:Someone who sounds very, very much like ElevatorGATE is very busy on the RipplesOfDoubt imposter account right now. The justice league is very, very angry about it :lol:

http://imgur.com/eY4dTr7.png

https://twitter.com/RipplesOfDoubt
Ripples of Doubt @RipplesOfDoubt

I am blocking everyone who disagrees with me. For my emotional protection. storify.com/RipplesOfDoubt… #RipplesofDoubt #sciox #scio14
12:43am · 4 Jan 14 · Tweetbot for iOS

3 Retweets
3 Favorites
http://storify.com/RipplesOfDoubt/conve ... puckett101

hahaha

Really?
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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#713

Post by Really? »

zenbabe wrote:
Ape+lust wrote:Someone who sounds very, very much like ElevatorGATE is very busy on the RipplesOfDoubt imposter account right now. The justice league is very, very angry about it :lol:

http://imgur.com/eY4dTr7.png

https://twitter.com/RipplesOfDoubt
Ripples of Doubt @RipplesOfDoubt

I am blocking everyone who disagrees with me. For my emotional protection. storify.com/RipplesOfDoubt… #RipplesofDoubt #sciox #scio14
12:43am · 4 Jan 14 · Tweetbot for iOS

3 Retweets
3 Favorites
http://storify.com/RipplesOfDoubt/conve ... puckett101

hahaha
LOL.

Why is she scared?!?! What do you think the tweets are going to do? Reach through her screen?

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#714

Post by zenbabe »

Really? wrote:
LOL.

Why is she scared?!?! What do you think the tweets are going to do? Reach through her screen?
She's heard the war stories and watched someone suffer:

http://i.imgur.com/I4yalFJ.jpg
(image courtesy of Ape+Lust viewtopic.php?p=148205#p148205)

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#715

Post by Mykeru »

Old_ones wrote:
Mykeru wrote:The idea of calling someone "rude", i.e., "brusque" on Twitter is ridiculous.

Also, is Bora Zivkovic Serbian? I tried to look it up but couldn't find his origins. If his original language is Serbian, or some other member of the Slavic language groups then the language itself could sound "rude" to western ears. (snip)
Yeah, Bora lists himself as Serbian (Yugoslavia at the time) by birth. http://coturnix.org/
Obviously a product of a privileged upbringing by the doting communist government in Yugoslavia under noted humanitarian Marshall Tito before the newly independent utopian states of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Croatia, etc. whereas his victims had life-long struggles as middle-classed white women under the heel of the patriarchal slut-shaming regimes of North America.

Am I doing it right?

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#716

Post by Ape+lust »

Cripes, that's one outstanding case of the Ophelias. She needs to get someone fired quick, or she'll never be right.

I like that the RipplesOfDoubt rascal paused to retweet this:

http://imgur.com/1PyYVS1.png

Important things are important :lol:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#717

Post by Ape+lust »

Gumby wrote:Well, there's another no-win they've set up for themselves.

"I was only hired because the boss thinks I'm hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

"I wasn't hired because the boss didn't think I was hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

Sometimes I think the engine of feminist social justice runs on highly refined rage tears - rage tears capable of producing an almost 100% mass-to-energy conversion rate.
I blame the Skepchicks for this :D

For years, they made "rationalist" gatherings an unexpected bacchanalia for every lumpy neckbeard/graybeard who showed up. Then they stopped. Blueballs! Some of the nerds got the mistaken idea their own charms had something to do with the way the Skepchicks behaved, so they turned them on young female recruits for MORE SEXYTIMES. Bora!

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#718

Post by zenbabe »

Ape+lust wrote: I like that the RipplesOfDoubt rascal paused to retweet this:

http://imgur.com/1PyYVS1.png

Important things are important :lol:
ha!!
That's gloriously funny to me :mrgreen:

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#719

Post by screwtape »

Gumby wrote:
Well, there's another no-win they've set up for themselves.

"I was only hired because the boss thinks I'm hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

"I wasn't hired because the boss didn't think I was hot! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"

Sometimes I think the engine of feminist social justice runs on highly refined rage tears - rage tears capable of producing an almost 100% mass-to-energy conversion rate.
Just like the brave breast cancer 'survivors' who battled cancer hard enough to survive. Those who progress are left with the impression that they didn't try hard enough. The science says attitude makes no difference whatsoever, so we are congratulating those who had winning cards anyway, and depressing those who didn't for something that's not their fault and will kill them.

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Re: Mykeru, what a Cnut, eh? Discuss.

#720

Post by BarnOwl »

LOL @ "oily cooing." :lol:

Here's another missive from the Land of What the Absolute Fuck:
I think my cerebral cortex just torqued into a Klein bottle. :?

Locked