Bleeding from the Bunghole

Old subthreads
zenbabe
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Bleeding from the Bunghole

#1

Post by zenbabe »

clownshoe wrote:Our new Full Frontal Zealotry podcast episode is up.

My co-host is a moderate in "The Shit". and not a member of The Slymepit (though he does lurk occasionally to see what I'm going on about). At about 34 minutes or so I make a barely veiled reference to current goings-on, and he erupts for ages about the last two years of bullshit. The frustration is palpable, and just when he thinks he can stop ranting, I meanly mention something else that pulls him back onto the rage train. :dance:

http://everdense.com/ffz/archives/267
Clownshoe that was hilarious :D

I loved all the talk that lead up to the rant, which you prolonged, by Shane ("You said you divorced yourself from skepticism now GO AWAY! Fuck off!" "I want to think about something ELSE!"). The parts at the beginning when (was it Shane again?) lost his mind laughing about the vet who performed chiropractic care on horses, was just.. I mean who doesn't laugh to hear someone crack up that hard, and with good reason!. And the parts about the Vatican with the two breasts and countless penises :lol: And on and on.

Super fun. Are all your shows like that?
I guess I'll check the archives.
Anyway. Thanks, cheers :)

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#2

Post by Badger3k »

Cold wrote:
Tribble wrote:
Cold wrote:
Lol that's pretty spot on. He's Joe with tits.

Whatever happened to that mental case John Kwok? Does he still occasionally post his ramblings at PT?
Isn't Kwok the one who demands a camera for some reason? And is blabbing on about cameras? I went back there a few days ago and went through a couple of threads. I think he's still there with a new handle and is still demanding a camera.
Yeah I do remember him having some kind of camera fetish. Also his Amazon account was pretty lulzy, if I remember correctly he'd leave the strangest book reviews and he had an incessant love of namedropping important people who apparently had no idea who he was.
"mendacious intellectual pornography" - that's one of his, also, his high school, high school principal, all the famous people he went to school with (who really are more successful then he is, and probably laugh about him when they hear his name) and the Leica rangefinder wasn't it - it's what comes to mind when I think of it. Now, I think we've mentioned his name at least three times, so if we look at a mirror, he may show up! :o

I imagine he's still the same joke he always was. His threat to defriend people on facebook was, er, unusual. Ah, old times...happier times...well, maybe not. More like "eyes closed times".

I think the whole Scialzi/elevatorgate may be another attempt by PZ to divert attention away from himself (watch out Oolon, he's coming for you next!), and maybe try to gain some credibility for any court case that may be in the works.

Skep tickle
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#3

Post by Skep tickle »

The FB stuff above between Poppy & Drescher at least passes for a conversation, even if neither changes her/their mind.

Then there's crap like this (first paragraph she's quoting Nerd, then from "I figured it out!" on is her commentary, sorry it's blurry):
http://i.imgur.com/czjtOSu.png?1

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-670976

A couple of people tell her how right she is.

Her #1: "PZ claims it's a warning to women, but bitchez aint shit so who cares for them. Why would anyone even talk to the furniture like they're human?"

Apparently in an echo chamber like there, "evidence needed for that claim" rockets around and becomes this straw-view that "women aren't human" and so on. It's horribly toxic and just dropped my opinion of FtB commenters farther than I even thought was possible.

ERV
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Re: Poppy v. Drescher

#4

Post by ERV »

Biohazard wrote:OK, this is the FB conversation, featuring Carrie Poppy, I was referring to that no one could see. I have replaced the names of people not already mentioned with anonymous handles (Commenter #1 etc.). This is based on the conversation as it appeared this morning, it in two parts so get your scroll finger limbered up if you're not interested:
Commenter #1 Nailed it.
Yesterday at 6:40am • Like • 1

Commenter #2 Brilliant!
Yesterday at 6:44am • Like • 1

Commenter #3
[snip picture of Nancy Regan with a "just say no" sign in front of her.]
Yesterday at 7:18am • Like

Commenter #4 He really went for the jugular in the end, lol.
Yesterday at 7:36am • Like

Wendy Hughes The Deity does not mince words.
Yesterday at 7:55am via mobile • Like

Carrie Poppy Yeah, great. Victim blaming. Great.
23 hours ago • Like • 1

Commenter #4 Where's the victim blaming?
23 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.
23 hours ago • Like

Commenter #4 You mean the water into wine comment?
23 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy No, he's offered alcohol and says no, and then says that wasn't hard, because he's an adult, responsible for his own decisions (summarizing-- I watched it last night).
23 hours ago • Like

Commenter #4 Oh, I see. I had initially took that part as the wine being a metaphor for gossip. Don't drink from the cup of gossip, so to speak.

But now that I rewatch that segment from the perspective of the claim that the victim was plied with alcohol, I understand what you mean. Now I wonder if he did mean that. If he did, I'd say it's a cheap shot. To me, this whole issue is about how PZ chose to treat the issue as his own personal dilemma about whether to blog about it, instead of urging the claimant to go to the authorities and then waiting for that to play out. I mean, there shouldn't have been a big hurry considering the alleged event took place several years ago.

Either it's a legit claim or it's not*. The details about alcohol and otherwise are irrelevant, as far as I can tell.

*this isn't to say that I think it's someone crying rape falsely, but it's a suspect situation with an 'anonymous' claimant reported by a guy who's been acting rather erratic lately.
23 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy For the protection of the victim/accuser, I can't say much, but I know who she is, I have heard her account, and for what it's worth, I believe her. And based on what she's told me, I understand why she hasn't gone to the authorities, although I (and PZ) have encouraged her to do so. Ultimately, that's her decision. But what she asked was for PZ to post her statement. So, he did.
23 hours ago • Edited • Like

Carrie Poppy But anyway, back to the alcohol: If that's not what he meant, I don't get the joke. Definitely read as blaming the victim, to me.
23 hours ago • Like

Commenter #4 Yeah, if that's the intent of that gag, it's no different then him doing up his top button and suggesting that we should cover up.
23 hours ago • Like • 3

Carrie Poppy Absolutely.
23 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy There are no winners here. I get why it sucks for everyone. But blaming the victim is, hands-down, the worst way we can handle this awful situation.
23 hours ago • Like • 3

Commenter #4 Agreed. I can't imagine what it would be like to endure an assault by a prominent community figure and feel stuck. I also can't imagine being accused of rape (assuming I hadn't done it). From my perspective, I have no personal knowledge of the truth of the matter is so ultimately, I don't have an opinion, beyond wishing that justice would miraculously occur for all parties. I just think PZ's delivery of the information was pretty ridiculous.

Now, if I had a friend who felt stuck and she confided in me and asked me to share her experience on a prominent blog, I don't know what I'd do, to be honest. You want to believe your friend, but taking such a inflammatory claim to the court of public opinion is a huge risk.

Ugh. You are absolutely right about there being no winners, Carrie.
23 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy It was definitely a risk. But he knew that, I'm sure. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. Like him or hate him, he took a huge risk because he wanted to help a woman who said she'd been raped, and felt she had no other options.
23 hours ago • Like • 2

Barbara A. Drescher The wine segment clearly refers to a story that didn't involve sexual contact at all. Of course you'd have to have read the story for this to be clear, but I believe it was added to PZ's post. The story was a woman who claimed that she asked Shermer to sign a book and he was chatty and flirty with her afterward. She said that he kept filling her wine glass. She found it creepy and left. End of story. There is no victim to blame.
23 hours ago via mobile • Like • 2

Barbara A. Drescher I'll add that, like abuse of the term "privilege", calling every criticism of unsubstantiated claims "victim blaming" is a convenient dodge of personal responsibility. This issue is not black and white. There is very little in this world that can be categorized so neatly into "always right" and "always wrong". That's why we have systems in place to help us decide where the lines are *as a society*.
22 hours ago via mobile • Like • 2

Carrie Poppy Oh, if it was a reference to the "creepy" wine thing, that's fine (I hadn't even heard that story). But the woman who made the statement to PZ said the story involved alcohol, too. She says she was raped.
22 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy Actually, I shouldn't say "that's fine." It's still not a very responsible thing to do right now. But it's certainly different from the reference I thought he was making, if you're right. And I would be somewhat relieved to learn you are.
22 hours ago • Like

Barbara A. Drescher You can't have it both ways. If drunk people are not responsible for the choices they make, then nobody should be prosecuted for drunk driving, are you prepared for that? All of this *sounds* very compassionate, but short-sighted thinking and rhetoric-driven behavior such as blacklisting and vigilantism is actually very, very irrational and harmful.
22 hours ago via mobile • Like • 2

Wendy Hughes It's a lot like the death penalty. It's across the board or not at all. You can't pick & choose who and when to apply it.
22 hours ago via mobile • Like • 3

Commenter #2 Maybe I'm just really naive about this, but if someone keeps giving you drinks, are you at all obligated to drink them? Can you not just say "no thanks" if a person keeps giving you drinks? Or give them to someone else if that person insists on buying you drinks? Unless you're being forced to drink (or are drugged) are you not responsible for your own actions and alcoholic intake?
21 hours ago • Edited • Like • 2

Carrie Poppy Again, I can't give more details. All I said was that alcohol was involved. There are a lot of assumptions being made here, and they are incorrect assumptions. I can't give you more details than that because the victim asked me not to.
21 hours ago • Like

Commenter #2 I'm talking strictly about a hypothetical situation, based on Mr. Deity's speech.
21 hours ago • Like

Carrie Poppy Okay. I'm not.
21 hours ago • Like

Barbara A. Drescher The details are not relevant. That's part of the problem with this conversation.
21 hours ago via mobile • Like

Barbara A. Drescher Try taking the bit on face value.
21 hours ago via mobile • Like

Carrie Poppy Well, I just lost faith in humanity.
21 hours ago • Like • 1

Commenter #5 Getting drunk and getting in a car to drive it implies action on the part of the drunk person. Getting drunk and and having something done to you (like sexual assault or robbery, say) doesn't mean you've actually made any decision except the decision to drink itself. I'm sure we'd all agree that if a drunk person is passed out in a public park, say, it doesn't mean we can all go have sex with them. Or if a drunk person passes out in your hotel room. Obviously not every situation is that clear, but I don't think this parallel totally passes muster.
21 hours ago • Like • 2

Barbara A. Drescher [Commenter #5], please do not misrepresent what I wrote. People who are passed out don't drive cars, either. They don't make choices. That's a straw man.
21 hours ago • Edited • Like

Commenter #5 Yes, that's true. Didn't mean to lump everything together like that. Was more of a response to other alcohol comments. I realize yours is a more nuanced comment.
21 hours ago • Like • 2

Barbara A. Drescher Thank you, [Commenter #5]. I expected someone to bring it up and I'm glad that it was you, since you clearly recognize the difference.
21 hours ago • Like • 2
[End part 1 of 2 (damn character limit)]
PZs grenade post says NOTHING about alcohol until the wine-refilling 'story'.

ATTN SHERMERS LAWYERS-- Not only is PZ fucking up his copy/pasting from some email list, but Carrie is also fucking up. 'The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.' Where, Carrie? Cause its not in the 'statement' PZ posted. I, and Mr. Deity, learned of this right now when you posted it on Facebook.

Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#5

Post by Badger3k »

bovarchist wrote:
Cold wrote:
bovarchist wrote:
And if he starts furiously fucking the fish, he's PZ Myers.
I'm pretty sure PZ's affinity for the wet and slimy is limited to cephalopods. He's a fan of quantity over quality. The more appendages, the better!
THEN WHY IS HE TRYING TO BREED THEM IN CAPTIVITY? I TELL YOU, HE'S CREATING A HAREM!!!1!!1 :o :o :o
If he starts putting glasses on them, and blue wigs, then we'll really know!

rpguest

Re: Poppy v. Drescher

#6

Post by rpguest »

ERV wrote:Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.
PLEASE!

middle-person-of-indeterminate-and-unnecessary-non-binary-gender-qualification

welch
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#7

Post by welch »

Lsuoma wrote:
welch wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:[bimg]http://i.imgur.com/4y7m1y8.jpg[/bimg]
I never owned an IBM PC.

Had an atari 800 for a while once.
Methinks thou dost protest too much!
Pfft. The 800 shat on the PC,graphics-wise at the time. Too bad it was run by Atari.

Southern
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#8

Post by Southern »

another lurker wrote: The fashion industry would cease to exist if not for the 'borrowing' of ideas.
That would be a good thing. "Fashion industry" is a useless, tasteless, wasteful wankfest that give a safeguard to the stupidiest ideas ever, while trying to elevate itself as a serious thing.

16bitheretic
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#9

Post by 16bitheretic »

I once had a stalker in real life and had to get police involved.

The very idea that someone Storifying publicly viewable Tweets (as the service is intended) is "stalking" is fucking ridiculous. Admittedly I've wondered why @elevatorGATE does as much Twitter archiving as they do and puts that much effort into their activity. Some of the selected targets and Storifys garnered a rather "Eh." response from me.

However, in my opinion it's no different than when gigantic posts of Sara Mayhew's Tweets appear on someone's bitch-fest blog on FTB, the entire "Shit Reddit Says" subreddit, Manboobz, or any of the political sites that archive the things people say in the media (like Right Wing Watch). Hell, this forum itself often serves as a similar archive of the crazy shit that comes out of certain blogs and websites.

I get that the email notifications might have been annoying. I was amazed myself when I joined Twitter at just how much the site liked to flood my email inbox with "so and so favorited a tweet of yours" and "You have a new follower". But at some point we all have to act like big boys and girls and utilize the built in features of technology, such as modern email services, to filter out things we don't want to receive. I'd fully expect someone capable of creating a Twitter account in the first place to have enough fucking brains to figure that out, but apparently I expect too much from people.

Oh, and if your publicly viewable Tweets are being Storified, and you want to claim it's harassment: fuck off. Call me when you've experienced some creep actually driving by your house multiple times a night, hanging around your home in their car, mailing weird notes and trying to call you at school 15 times in 2 hours. THAT is stalking. Having your Tweets archived via fair use is not.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#10

Post by katamari Damassi »

Early Cuyler wrote:
katamari Damassi wrote:
Early Cuyler wrote:
BTW, Stolichnaya is already pro-LGBT.
Call me a skeptic, but I'm not inclined to take their word for that and prefer to see some proof.

Stolichnaya blue label is 100, how much more proof do you need? :rimshot:

Seriously though, how about doing your own fucking homework before you call a company a bunch of liars. :hand:
Poor oppressed company.

They've sponsored some gay events and they decorate their ads in rainbow flags. So what? They do that for sales. Try harder. They have no nondiscrimination hiring policy. And even if they're a multinational corporation they're still an iconic Russian brand. Want gays to drink your crap? Change your brand. You've seem to have appointed yourself their champion, so if you want me to drink it then sell me on it. So far, don't care.

ERV
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Re: Poppy v. Drescher

#11

Post by ERV »

rpguest wrote:
ERV wrote:Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.
PLEASE!

middle-person-of-indeterminate-and-unnecessary-non-binary-gender-qualification
Like its a coincidence Myers/Poppy both keep making these little mistakes, and the 'grenade' post went up a day after Carries wildly successful 'tell all' post Myers hosted for her, which also featured forwarded emails.

welch
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#12

Post by welch »

So evidently, to Scalzi, "stalking" really means "a cloud service that doesn't have the right notifications filters set up."

Holy fuckoly, I hope he never looks at how lame Gmail filters are, he'll start bleeding from his ass.

Badger3k
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Re: Poppy v. Drescher

#13

Post by Badger3k »

ERV wrote:
rpguest wrote:
ERV wrote:Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.
PLEASE!

middle-person-of-indeterminate-and-unnecessary-non-binary-gender-qualification
Like its a coincidence Myers/Poppy both keep making these little mistakes, and the 'grenade' post went up a day after Carries wildly successful 'tell all' post Myers hosted for her, which also featured forwarded emails.
We all (I think) remember the edit to remove Carrie's name from the one addendum (I think it was the first). IIRC (and without going back to check) the second update to his post was the alcohol story. If anyone was reading the post and updates, they would certainly know of the situation that (I think) Drescher was referring to.

Lsuoma
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14

Post by Lsuoma »

welch wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:
welch wrote:
I never owned an IBM PC.

Had an atari 800 for a while once.
Methinks thou dost protest too much!
Pfft. The 800 shat on the PC,graphics-wise at the time. Too bad it was run by Atari.
Amiga FTW.

Southern
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#15

Post by Southern »

Again, so many hours dedicated to making a fuss over:

- sex;
- alcohol;
- fucking Twitter;

Peezus Christ.

Lsuoma
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#16

Post by Lsuoma »

welch wrote:So evidently, to Scalzi, "stalking" really means "a cloud service that doesn't have the right notifications filters set up."

Holy fuckoly, I hope he never looks at how lame Gmail filters are, he'll start bleeding from his ass.
How do you think his books are produced?

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#17

Post by Ä uest »

welch wrote:So evidently, to Scalzi, "stalking" really means "a cloud service that doesn't have the right notifications filters set up."

Holy fuckoly, I hope he never looks at how lame Gmail filters are, he'll start bleeding from his ass.
Exactly, and once again, he could be using his writing skills and sophisticated understanding of free speech and commentary to explain to his fans that there is no stalking going on.

But instead he takes the banhammer out and starts demanding he is right.

Poor wimmyn they got balls you know since they play the game at a much higher difficulty setting than elevatorGATE. True heroes.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#18

Post by katamari Damassi »

welch wrote:
katamari Damassi wrote:I haven't read any of Scalzi's novels so I'm not a fan, but I can understand why he's at least SJW friendly. A lot of geeks are SJW's and we know how fickle the SJW demographic can be, but geeks who oppose the nonsense of the SJW's are still going to read his stuff even if they disagree with his nonfiction, ideological writing, because nonSJW geeks will read pretty much any SF and fantasy.

Here, Scalzi the SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR;

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/07/17/b ... rs-and-me/

evidently, when it might impact him, then you know, whatever you want to do, that's jes' peachy.
Gay, screen writer Dustin Lance Black also tried to dissuade gay rights supporters from boycotting the Card movie. When someone's wallet is threatened their convictions are put to the test and most fail. FWIW I look forward to pirating Ender's Game.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#19

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Lsuoma wrote:
Pfft. The 800 shat on the PC,graphics-wise at the time. Too bad it was run by Atari.
Amiga FTW.[/quote]

LOL 80s computer wars.

Can we have a new thread with a more up to date title? I'm sick of seeing Justin Vacuous's name every time I pull this one up.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#20

Post by Lsuoma »

Fuck, shit, piss, corruption and onions - I accidentally deleted the poll on whether PeeZus would comply. Will try and restore from a backup. Apols.

real horrorshow
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#21

Post by real horrorshow »

Bradbury's Stranger in a Strangeland
Heinlein

JackRayner
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#22

Post by JackRayner »

Skep tickle wrote:Screen shot (not shopped, I promise)

http://i.imgur.com/ZNFRUdy.png?1
I'm not even sure how you're able to get to that page. Anytime I attempt it takes me to a blank "account suspended" page. (Like it does with my former, permabanned account.)

another lurker
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#23

Post by another lurker »

Southern wrote:
another lurker wrote: The fashion industry would cease to exist if not for the 'borrowing' of ideas.
That would be a good thing. "Fashion industry" is a useless, tasteless, wasteful wankfest that give a safeguard to the stupidiest ideas ever, while trying to elevate itself as a serious thing.

Meh fashion is supposed to be fun. Some cunts take themselves too seriously though.

Ä uest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#24

Post by Ä uest »

real horrorshow wrote:
Bradbury's Stranger in a Strangeland
Heinlein
Gah! Thank you.

/abashed.

JackRayner
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#25

Post by JackRayner »

Seems like Damion has decided to jump into the "@ElevatorGate is raping stalking womyn with Storify!" fiasco. Here's his take.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#26

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:
Pfft. The 800 shat on the PC,graphics-wise at the time. Too bad it was run by Atari.
Amiga FTW.
LOL 80s computer wars.

Can we have a new thread with a more up to date title? I'm sick of seeing Justin Vacuous's name every time I pull this one up.[/quote]

Result.

Skep tickle
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#27

Post by Skep tickle »

Good pickup, Abbie, on Carrie Poppy revealing in that FB thread that she knew more details about case #1 from the grenade post, accusing Shermer, than were posted publicly by Myers. One implication is that Poppy might know who the person is, and Myers might not.

bovarchist
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#28

Post by bovarchist »

Yay, I didn't miss the start of a new thread this time. Last time I think it took me a full day to clue in. "WHY HAS EVERYBODY STOPPED COMMENTING??"

VAXherd
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#29

Post by VAXherd »

On the concept of Privilege, allow me to offer a Sociological perspective:

If you insist on judging individual people based on their group membership(s), you are a bigot.
More formally, this is the Ecological Fallacy.


That was easy! I'll go back to lurking now and . . . wait, what?

No. It doesn't help if your prejudice is favorable.
No! It doesn't help if you're right "on average".
No! It does NOT help if you're throwing your own group under the bus!
  • If you see a Caucasian and automatically say "White Privilege", you're racist.
  • If you see a man and automatically say "Male Privilege", you're sexist.
  • If you see a straight person and automatically say "Cis Privilege", you're . . . antiheternormativist?
And, no, "Intersectionality" won't really help. Not if you're still judging individuals based on group memberships.

Why? Because the overriding group factor is wealth, or "class," and the people who moan about Privilege tend to be Upper Middle Class and well-to-do. Oh, wait, am I'm judging people by their group membership? *Sigh*

OK, the factors that go into Privilege are numerous, and their affects are situational. Regional accent, family connections, just about anything another person can discern about you (or find out by snooping) might matter. And how it matters varies depending on where and when you are. Do you like Tupac Shakur or the Notorious B.I.G.? Think carefully, your life depends on it.

There, real Sociology.

Oh, and while we're on the topic of music, let's have something decent for a change.

[youtube]VmU_MVy9kGs[/youtube]

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#30

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

nippletwister wrote:some of what Led Zeppelin did (and what blues and folk artists do all the damn time since the dawn of man) is more of an "inspired by" sort of thing. A re-working, a re-imagining, sometimes bearing little resemblance to the earlier work.
Led Zep re-working older material is not at issue. I consider their cover of When The Levee Breaks a masterpiece. What's at issue is: Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie wrote that song, but Jimmy Page claimed he did.
nippletwister wrote:Some artists even go so far as to say that extending copyright to the levels we have is closer to "stealing", as it pretends to ownership that is not real and chokes off the supply of material that can be incorporated into new works, generally for the benefit of non-producers, even long after the death of the "original" artist.
Anyone can use existing material; they just have to pay a royalty.
dog puke wrote:Many of the old blues tunes that the Stones, et al, covered, trace back to early blues players, but even then much of that 'original' material dated from earlier anonymous sources. Folk music was always thus.
When the Stones appeared on a US TV special early in their career, they insisted that Howlin' Wolf perform with them. The Who always gave a shout-out to Mose Allison for Young Man Blues.

Whether Sonny Boy Williamson, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, or Memphis Minnie drew from earlier, anonymous sources is irrelevant. They owned the copyrights to the songs Led Zeppelin recorded and credited to Plant, Page, et al. Several successful suits were brought against Led Zep.


I'm a little surprised that so many here conflate covers, derivations & variations -- which are common, legal, and integral to musical creativity -- with willful infringement of copyrights via failure to attribute or pay royalties, an uncommon occurrence in the music industry, but standard practice for Plant, Page & co.


This is getting Zimmerman-esque, so nuf ced from me, unless anyone wants to discuss it further in a side topic.

Skep tickle
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#31

Post by Skep tickle »

Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Skep tickle wrote:Good pickup, Abbie, on Carrie Poppy revealing in that FB thread that she knew more details about case #1 from the grenade post, accusing Shermer, than were posted publicly by Myers. One implication is that Poppy might know who the person is, and Myers might not.
Skep or Abbie, could one of you lay this out in a clear post? I mean a simple post which looks back and distils all the facts now known into a single story.

I've been very confused by all the intrigue, and bullshit, and half-facts which have been hurriedly thrown out by Meyers and pals. It would be much appreciated for the slow of thought like myself, and I'm sure many others. (Hopefully, or maybe I'm just the single fool who hasn't grasped it all.)

Ä uest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#33

Post by Ä uest »

Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.
[youtube]07P538K83iU[/youtube]

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#34

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?
Fap, fap, fap.

KiwiInOz
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#35

Post by KiwiInOz »

Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.
Were any small mammals harmed?

mordacious1
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#36

Post by mordacious1 »

Dog am I dense, I just got "Forget it Jake...it's 'Ginatown". Sometimes it takes me a while, but I get there.

I'm liking Barbara Drescher in that conversation, she seems to have her head on straight. I wonder if she comments on FfTB? I think PeePee might ban her for blasphemy.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#37

Post by mordacious1 »

KiwiInOz wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.
Were any small mammals harmed?
We seem to be missing a small pack of mongooses that were here not too long ago...

KiwiInOz
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#38

Post by KiwiInOz »

mordacious1 wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.
Were any small mammals harmed?
We seem to be missing a small pack of mongooses that were here not too long ago...
Maybe they chased after the snake?

16bitheretic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#39

Post by 16bitheretic »

mordacious1 wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.
Were any small mammals harmed?
We seem to be missing a small pack of mongooses that were here not too long ago...
[youtube]aSS4-CiHkhw[/youtube]

mordacious1
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#40

Post by mordacious1 »

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole
Postby 16bitheretic » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:31 pm • [Post 39]
[snip]

"Here's some advice, it's very clear cut: If you love your gerbil, don't stick him up your butt".

And if you love your furry mongoose, better keep him out of your caboose...

Skep tickle
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#41

Post by Skep tickle »

Ah, well. I guess my "lived experience" just doesn't matter to y'all. *sniff*

It's best policy not to mention patients at all, but here's a story with few particulars from a few years back (I'm saying "the patient" alot to avoid pronouns):

saw a patient in clinic for acute-onset lower GI (gastrointestinal) bleeding; the patient was over 80 yrs old, on a blood thinner, and had heart disease. Blood pressure was more than 40 points below the patient's usual, and the patient was actively passing red blood per rectum in the clinic. We put in IVs, called an ambulance, & had the patient taken over to the hospital for admission. The patient got transfused with blood products to improve clotting and replace some of the lost blood, & had a colonoscopy to find the source of bleeding. The patient was discharged home in much improved condition, 2 days later.

Turns out Medicare didn't pay for the hospital stay, deciding that the patient hadn't needed to be hospitalized - decided that the patient should have been "observation" status, not "inpatient" status to reflect that this could all have been managed as an outpatient. Big jaw-drop for me on that one. I know it's a bureaucracy but that' was just wrong.

Well, back to the small mammals and their reptilian overlords - or their dinner, as the case may be.

KiwiInOz
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#42

Post by KiwiInOz »

mordacious1 wrote:Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole
Postby 16bitheretic » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:31 pm • [Post 39]
[snip]

"Here's some advice, it's very clear cut: If you love your gerbil, don't stick him up your butt".

And if you love your furry mongoose, better keep him out of your caboose...
I find it pretty heinous
to stick a mongoose up your bottom

dog puke
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#43

Post by dog puke »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
dog puke wrote:Many of the old blues tunes that the Stones, et al, covered, trace back to early blues players, but even then much of that 'original' material dated from earlier anonymous sources. Folk music was always thus.
When the Stones appeared on a US TV special early in their career, they insisted that Howlin' Wolf perform with them. The Who always gave a shout-out to Mose Allison for Young Man Blues.

Whether Sonny Boy Williamson, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, or Memphis Minnie drew from earlier, anonymous sources is irrelevant. They owned the copyrights to the songs Led Zeppelin recorded and credited to Plant, Page, et al. Several successful suits were brought against Led Zep.

I'm a little surprised that so many here conflate covers, derivations & variations -- which are common, legal, and integral to musical creativity -- with willful infringement of copyrights via failure to attribute or pay royalties, an uncommon occurrence in the music industry, but standard practice for Plant, Page & co.

This is getting Zimmerman-esque, so nuf ced from me, unless anyone wants to discuss it further in a side topic.
Well, I have no argument with the copyright issue, my point is specifically about the evolutionary process of the creation of the music itself. I am in no way conflating these issues. There certainly are plagiarists and thieves in all fields and music is no exception - I don't know much about Led Zeppelin's practices per se.

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Re: Poppy v. Drescher

#44

Post by Aneris »

ERV wrote:[...]

PZs grenade post says NOTHING about alcohol until the wine-refilling 'story'.

ATTN SHERMERS LAWYERS-- Not only is PZ fucking up his copy/pasting from some email list, but Carrie is also fucking up. 'The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.' Where, Carrie? Cause its not in the 'statement' PZ posted. I, and Mr. Deity, learned of this right now when you posted it on Facebook.

Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.
The Victim Blaming charge is also patentently nonsense. At least for people who do not use the Fluid-Dictionaryâ„¢ of Atheism Plus.
  • Victim Blaming is the view/ideology that men have urges and sexual desires they can't control. Sometimes the keyword “boys are boys” is used. It then allegedly the job of women to control their and men's sexuality. A vivid display of this can be seen in the Purity Ball movement. Again, the community could pull together and go against this shit. But no. Let's play Orwellian word police and hunt people who say 'cunt'.
  • Victim Blaming is the view that women want to be captured by suitors and that resistance makes them sexier and it was therefore okay to use force. Some examples of this can be seen (at least) in older films. For example in James Bond. There is this female assassin/spy/whatever. She hides in his hotel room but gets caught red handed. They get into a short fight that conviently makes them land on the bed. Connery beats her, she tries to fight back. He catches her hand in mid air, their eyes meet. They kiss. Then they sleep together.
  • Victim Blaming is the idea that doing something in one area by one's free choice means consenting to something else. Assume someone is voluntariy a stripper and she is being groped. The victim blaming charge is the claim that “she asked for it”, but of course, flirting, dancing naked, getting drunk etc. does not mean that one does want to be groped or sexually assaulted.
In summary, Victim Blaming is when Victim-Offender roles are swapped around. At a normal party and with drinking wine, I fail to see where the offender is. They can drink or stop drinking and unless forced, it's entirely up to them. If the person later drives drunk, it's their fault. Unless I am missing something, which always is a possibility, I'm assuming that Atheism Plus folks are intellectually inhibited. But I'm really questioning myself. I must be wrong somewhere, they can't be that free of wit.

Aneris
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#45

Post by Aneris »

Victim Blaming is also trivializing of rape etc. Here is a working Purity Ball link.

Warning: excessive creep level

[youtube]xt4xqZdsGo0[/youtube]

Gefan
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#46

Post by Gefan »

welch wrote:So evidently, to Scalzi, "stalking" really means "a cloud service that doesn't have the right notifications filters set up."

Holy fuckoly, I hope he never looks at how lame Gmail filters are, he'll start bleeding from his ass.
Scalzi was apparently in some kind of war with Pox Day over (wait for it) rape accusations.
Scalzi seems to have won but I regret them not having settled it with flamethrowers in the middle of swimming pool filled with gasoline (bring your own marshmallows).

Gefan
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#47

Post by Gefan »

16bitheretic wrote: I once had a stalker in real life and had to get police involved...
Could have been worse. Your stalker could have followed your every move on Twitter and other on-line spaces, showed up at every public appearance you made (including conferences where you were speaking and he wasn't), launched innumerable on-line wars in your name, and finally blew-up his entire career and family's financial future based on his crazed fixation.

You're just lucky you don't have blue hair.

LurkerPerson

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#48

Post by LurkerPerson »

Erm, I'm pretty sure PZ's original "Shermer is a big bad rapist" post did mention that alcohol was related. The following post with the "quasi-raped" bullshit was posted as a reinforcement of Shermer's creep tactics of forcing alcohol down delicate flowers's gullets as they struggled helplessly against their instinct to gulp down anything in their cups for fear of being rude.

didymos
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#49

Post by didymos »

LurkerPerson wrote:Erm, I'm pretty sure PZ's original "Shermer is a big bad rapist" post did mention that alcohol was related. The following post with the "quasi-raped" bullshit was posted as a reinforcement of Shermer's creep tactics of forcing alcohol down delicate flowers's gullets as they struggled helplessly against their instinct to gulp down anything in their cups for fear of being rude.
No, it didn't. People asked what the nature of the coercion was, and PZ added the detail about booze in the comments. I haven''t checked to see if it's in the OP now, but it definitely wasn't at first.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#50

Post by VAXherd »

Aneris wrote:
  • Victim Blaming is the view that women want to be captured by suitors and that resistance makes them sexier and it was therefore okay to use force. Some examples of this can be seen (at least) in older films. For example in James Bond. There is this female assassin/spy/whatever. She hides in his hotel room but gets caught red handed. They get into a short fight that conviently makes them land on the bed. Connery beats her, she tries to fight back. He catches her hand in mid air, their eyes meet. They kiss. Then they sleep together.
I don't think the James Bond example works very well. The sex is meant to be taken as highly consensual on both sides.

On Bond's side, it's partly a reference to the respect a man can have for a worthy opponent.

On the Villainess's side it's partly a reference to womens' hypergamy. Finding a man sexy is tied to his being able to defeat her in single combat (in whatever arena matters to her). It's a bit of a dirty secret that inside a modern-day educated liberal-minded citizen who happens to be female is a hunter gatherer woman whose number one use for the men in her band is to protect her from the men in other bands.

The Purity Balls on the other hand . . . creep level = nightmare!

Ä uest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#51

Post by Ä uest »

Here's the freezepage.

http://www.freezepage.com/1376039041HQQMDPRCAF

And no mention of alcohol until PZ adds it in comment 51

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#52

Post by Dick Strawkins »

didymos wrote:
LurkerPerson wrote:Erm, I'm pretty sure PZ's original "Shermer is a big bad rapist" post did mention that alcohol was related. The following post with the "quasi-raped" bullshit was posted as a reinforcement of Shermer's creep tactics of forcing alcohol down delicate flowers's gullets as they struggled helplessly against their instinct to gulp down anything in their cups for fear of being rude.
No, it didn't. People asked what the nature of the coercion was, and PZ added the detail about booze in the comments. I haven''t checked to see if it's in the OP now, but it definitely wasn't at first.
He mentioned alcohol in the comments section on August 9th (the original grenade post being made on August 8th)
51
PZ Myers

9 August 2013 at 12:04 am (UTC -5)

The coercion involved a rather standard technique for this sort of thing: alcohol. Lots of alcohol.

Next up: “well, it was her fault for getting drunk.” We all know the routine.

Ä uest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#53

Post by Ä uest »

VAXherd wrote:
Aneris wrote:
  • Victim Blaming is the view that women want to be captured by suitors and that resistance makes them sexier and it was therefore okay to use force. Some examples of this can be seen (at least) in older films. For example in James Bond. There is this female assassin/spy/whatever. She hides in his hotel room but gets caught red handed. They get into a short fight that conviently makes them land on the bed. Connery beats her, she tries to fight back. He catches her hand in mid air, their eyes meet. They kiss. Then they sleep together.
I don't think the James Bond example works very well. The sex is meant to be taken as highly consensual on both sides.

On Bond's side, it's partly a reference to the respect a man can have for a worthy opponent.

On the Villainess's side it's partly a reference to womens' hypergamy. Finding a man sexy is tied to his being able to defeat her in single combat (in whatever arena matters to her). It's a bit of a dirty secret that inside a modern-day educated liberal-minded citizen who happens to be female is a hunter gatherer woman whose number one use for the men in her band is to protect her from the men in other bands.

The Purity Balls on the other hand . . . creep level = nightmare!
In Feminist Land James Bond is a rapist (and Baby It's Cold Outside is a Rape Song.)

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/ja ... e-14306026

http://i.imgur.com/WaWsGA2.jpg

[youtube]1pUXH1Bye88[/youtube]

Pussy Galore being raped after holding Bond captive, every quite a bit of tussling / rough housing / foreplay, after she holds him at 1:00 to 1:10, looks away when he kisses her at 1:10 and then by 1:20, clearly seems to consent.

It's kind of fun to see feminists look at James Bond being held captive being taken presumably to his death, then escape capture and convert the enemy agent to a friend and classify that as rape.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#54

Post by VAXherd »

Ä uest wrote:It's kind of fun to see feminists look at James Bond being held captive being taken presumably to his death, then escape capture and convert the enemy agent to a friend and classify that as rape.
Indeed. The theme ("trope") of mortal enemy turned life saving friend is quite venerable. Usually it's between men, but often between men and women. I can't think of an instance between women, but there probably are some.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#55

Post by Skep tickle »

Aneris wrote:Victim Blaming is also trivializing of rape etc. Here is a working Purity Ball link.

Warning: excessive creep level

[ youtube ] xt4xqZdsGo0 [ /youtube ]
:shock:

Okay, yeah - that's creepy

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#56

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Naughty neurotypical ableist Peezus!

http://i.imgur.com/nZF9I3a.jpg

Just on the question of comparing @Elevatorgate with Dennis Markuze, I've been 'targeted by both in the past:

@Elevatorgate storified a couple of things I said in twitter conversations and then did his usual thing of moving on to storify others. There was no threats, and he seemed to be aware of the situation he was covering.

Markuze, on the other hand turned up out of the blue on an atheist blog I had a few years back, and left a comment threatening to behead me!
Markuze seems to have no understanding of reality and (unlike @Elevatorgate) never really interacts with those who try to engage him in conversation.

In other words Markuze really does act like he is suffering from a mental illness that disconnects him from reality.
@Elevatorgate, on the other hand acts like someone on the autistic spectrum (he has admitted as much in the past), but someone who has an understanding of the world around him and will interact with others when they try.

Ä uest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#57

Post by Ä uest »

Dick Strawkins wrote:Naughty neurotypical ableist Peezus!

http://i.imgur.com/nZF9I3a.jpg

Just on the question of comparing @Elevatorgate with Dennis Markuze, I've been 'targeted by both in the past:

@Elevatorgate storified a couple of things I said in twitter conversations and then did his usual thing of moving on to storify others. There was no threats, and he seemed to be aware of the situation he was covering.

Markuze, on the other hand turned up out of the blue on an atheist blog I had a few years back, and left a comment threatening to behead me!
Markuze seems to have no understanding of reality and (unlike @Elevatorgate) never really interacts with those who try to engage him in conversation.

In other words Markuze really does act like he is suffering from a mental illness that disconnects him from reality.
@Elevatorgate, on the other hand acts like someone on the autistic spectrum (he has admitted as much in the past), but someone who has an understanding of the world around him and will interact with others when they try.
HE'S STILL OBSESSIVELY COLLECTING PEOPLE'S TWEETS IT JUST MEANS THEY ARE NO LONGER ANNOYINGLY NOTIFIED ABOUT IT!

rayshul
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#58

Post by rayshul »

Elevatorgate is a kid who wants to be a journalist and is faithfully covering the dramarama with gonzo style... well, as much as you can on the internet. He occasionally acts like a teenager, but he's not any kind of threat. Not least of all because he doesn't live in the same country as most of them and he's a *kid* - he doesn't have the money to travel to these things.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#59

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Ä uest wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:Naughty neurotypical ableist Peezus!

http://i.imgur.com/nZF9I3a.jpg



HE'S STILL OBSESSIVELY COLLECTING PEOPLE'S TWEETS IT JUST MEANS THEY ARE NO LONGER ANNOYINGLY NOTIFIED ABOUT IT!
Stop shouting at me, in red!

The obvious solution is that suggested by the very first commenter, screechy monkey: simply remove Elevatorgate's option to email notify those he is storifying.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#60

Post by Slither »

Scalzi using himself to argue that men live life "on an easier difficulty setting" is astonishing: he's previously written about his own writing career. Turns out that one of the major causes of his success is the fact that his wife has a well-paying and steady job, and was willing to financially support him when he decided to quit his regular job and become a full-time writer. Is his argument really that men have it easy because they have wealthy wives?!

Locked