Bleeding from the Bunghole

Old subthreads
Sunder
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32761

Post by Sunder »

Pitchguest wrote:So, I guess it's okay to use dictionaries again? Wasn't that what PZ Myers deemed "losing" if it was ever used in an argument? :think:
It's something that makes sense to any person who's ever debated a creationist of which Myers is probably perfectly aware.

If you don't pin someone down on definitions that are precise then you leave your opponent open to changing the meaning of their terms on the fly.

My suspicion is that Myers is perfectly aware of this and has co-opted the technique, thus declaring dictionaries and hard definitions to be the realm of stupid people lest he be unable to move his goalposts at leisure.

JackSkeptic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32762

Post by JackSkeptic »

Tigzy wrote:The 'Surly Cunts' palimpsest is exceedingly funny and I hope it will induce much outrage in FTB circles, in order that my amusement may progress further.

I also note that Peez has a post up about the outrage amongst the 'scum' fans of Spiderman concerning the actress chosen to play Mary Jane Watson. By clever dint of clicking on the link Peez supplied - something which seems to escape most of his commentariat - said outrage occurred nearly a year ago. By which time, rest assurred that all the scummy misogyny and that has now given way to the much more important question of: will the Hob/Green Goblin actually look kinda cool in this one?

For more added mirth, Peez's previous post has him spluttering with semi-outrage at David Cameron's Great Porn Firewall of Britain. Why? Because...well, apparently, it ain't just for blocking porn, but for things the goverment might find 'unreasonable'. Oddly...no mention of the block bot, either from Peez or the commentariat. Funny that.

Besides which, the Great Firewall of Britain can already be circumvented (anonymously) by a simple Chrome extension :-D Well done, Dave, for putting all that taxpayers' money to good use...
The UK online porn law is primarily in response to blocking rape porn. I assume Myers picked up on that rather than hating on the policy due to it being proposed by a 'right wing' government. He did didn't he? I'm sure he did. Anyway, 'right wing' in the UK is left of Obama. We have no ingrained concepts such as Libertarian or 'progressive' as they are largely considered a bit old fashioned and not very useful. Most people agree on matters such as Universal health care and very strict gun laws and abortion rights. It is true the UK government will use new laws to block and censor anything they like, nothing new there.

Tony Blair started these attacks on freedom with his nanny state mentality and it has now entered the mindsets of successive government that it is OK to do. The UK is the most monitored country in the world. All we need is an oppressive government and we're screwed. A government that many SJL's would love to see.

JackSkeptic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32763

Post by JackSkeptic »

As to the blockbot, I have seen Myers post about ti once and he said he was not in favour of it.

Tribble
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32764

Post by Tribble »

Sunder wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:So, I guess it's okay to use dictionaries again? Wasn't that what PZ Myers deemed "losing" if it was ever used in an argument? :think:
It's something that makes sense to any person who's ever debated a creationist of which Myers is probably perfectly aware.

If you don't pin someone down on definitions that are precise then you leave your opponent open to changing the meaning of their terms on the fly.

My suspicion is that Myers is perfectly aware of this and has co-opted the technique, thus declaring dictionaries and hard definitions to be the realm of stupid people lest he be unable to move his goalposts at leisure.

You know, it's funny, but until he became a professional demagogue, he relied heavily on dictionaries and precise definitions of words to ridicule creationists and their loser, inappropriate definitions. One of his favorite was bashing pro-lifer's and claiming that a fetus met the exact definition of a parasite therefore (from magical thinking) their position was stupid:
Parasite -- An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
Of course a fetus doesn't meet that definition, because the fetus does provide something to the parent -- a partial replication of its genetic material. But that's about when the scales started to fall off my eyes. I realized that he was just as dishonest and manipulative as the creationists he ranted against.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32765

Post by Dick Strawkins »

JackSkeptic wrote:As to the blockbot, I have seen Myers post about ti once and he said he was not in favour of it.
I think he's being cautious after the AtheismPlus fiasco.
The whole AtheismPlus movement was begun as an embodiment of his own opposition to 'dictionary atheism' and the promotion of an atheism that mirrored his own political viewpoints.
But Myers wasn't visibly involved as a public face of atheism plus leaving just Jen McCreight and Greta Christina as the only two prominent atheists who could be seen as leaders of the movement. Both of them dropped out for different reasons (Christina because she couldn't be bothered, and McCreight because she couldn't cope with the valid criticism she was receiving. Carrier's intellectual artillery fired on himself, leaving the field open to the likes of Setar, Grimalkin and Ceepolk to take the reins and gallop merrily towards la-la land. It was almost shocking to see how quickly SJWs will turn a movement with some potential for good, into a complete joke.
Myers, Benson and Watson were initially supportive of Aplus but soon started to treat it as embarassing family secret, the mad granny locked in the FTB attic.
The blockbot is also tied to Atheism plus - it's run by some of the same idiots behind atheismplus, and more importantly, it's run by oolon, someone who was seen through as a disingenuous poseur by Myers months ago.
Some of the people on the blockbot team are almost indistinuishable from POEs - banning Lady Gaga for example.
Myers may be an asshole but he's smart enough to avoid getting tied in to the actions of that lot.

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32766

Post by Mykeru »

Tapir wrote:Surly-goatse?

http://i.imgur.com/bOBHrm1.jpg
Surly Anus!

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Your exercise in Zen

#32767

Post by Mykeru »

So, driving down to and back from North Carolina I was listening to a book on the Duke Lacrosse false rape accusation case titled "It's Not About the Truth: The Untold Story of the Duke Lacrosse Case and the Lives It Shattered" where, our buddy Amanda doesn't get so much as a mention. I came home and started looking some things up and came across some interesting stuff. Like, On Jezebel.

Okay kids, here's your exercise in Zen for today.

Go to this link: Woman Who Accused Duke Lacrosse Players of Rape Convicted of Murder.

Okay, so that's old news, but wait for it:

2. Read the first half dozen comments. They start like this:
Now here's the had part:

3. Do not do this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/266011 ... uter-o.gif

As it's Jezebel, I'm giving this a difficulty factor of 8, even if you don't have a shotgun, you'll go out and get one.

But it's a good exercise, after all, FTB will keep fishing around until they get a Duke-style rape case to call their very own.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32768

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Dick Strawkins wrote: Myers, Benson and Watson were initially supportive of Aplus but soon started to treat it as embarassing family secret, the mad granny locked in the FTB attic.
No, I'm pretty sure that would be Benson.

AndrewV69
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32769

Post by AndrewV69 »

Pitchguest wrote:By the way, notice how "misogynist" has been redefined from "hatred of women" to hatred AND "dislike, mistrust and mistreatment of women."

:doh:
Well, looking at it again I see :
mi·sog·y·nist noun
a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats women.
To me that means hatred or dislike or mistrust or mistreat. I like how dislikes and mistrusts is in the middle of hates and mistreat. :lol:

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32770

Post by Mykeru »

Pitchguest wrote:By the way, notice how "misogynist" has been redefined from "hatred of women" to hatred AND "dislike, mistrust and mistreatment of women."

:doh:
Wouldn't the simple phrase "disagree with" serve their purposes, or would that give the game away?

welch
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32771

Post by welch »

Rope apologist wrote:Bjarte explains his problem on Twitter:
Uncritically accusing others of [insert prejudice/bigotry of choice here] isn't "offensive", it's a bad argument.
You could think of quitting that, you know...

More proof there is no god.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Your exercise in Zen

#32772

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Mykeru wrote:So, driving down to and back from North Carolina I was listening to a book on the Duke Lacrosse false rape accusation case titled "It's Not About the Truth: The Untold Story of the Duke Lacrosse Case and the Lives It Shattered" where, our buddy Amanda doesn't get so much as a mention. I came home and started looking some things up and came across some interesting stuff. Like, On Jezebel.

Okay kids, here's your exercise in Zen for today.

Go to this link: Woman Who Accused Duke Lacrosse Players of Rape Convicted of Murder.

Okay, so that's old news, but wait for it:

2. Read the first half dozen comments. They start like this:
Woman Who Accused Duke Lacrosse Players of Rape Convicted of Murder.png
Now here's the had part:

3. Do not do this:

.............

As it's Jezebel, I'm giving this a difficulty factor of 8, even if you don't have a shotgun, you'll go out and get one.

But it's a good exercise, after all, FTB will keep fishing around until they get a Duke-style rape case to call their very own.
That there Rapeiarchy truly is a terrible thing. Look what it made the poor goose do, and now they are putting her away? Don't they understand that pouncehugs are called for?

Really?
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32773

Post by Really? »

I dunno if any of you read Tony Ortega's excellent The Underground Bunker, an awesome blog that chronicles the ongoing follies of Scientology. As part of the Year In Review, Ortega links to a guest post by PZ Myers from a few months back.

Link: http://tonyortega.org/2013/12/29/scient ... more-12372

I delight in the irony of PZ writing on an anti-Scientology blog, seeing as how FTB and Scientology have a few things in common. (Their autocratic leaders suppress free speech and discourage entheta, members who have committed serious crimes are coddled while opponents are assumed to be guilty of crimes...)

Doesn't look like anyone has pointed out those similarities yet in the comments. Doing so would be quite rude, in fact. Peezus has made it clear that he's opposed to discussion of FTB on a site he doesn't moderate.

Mykeru
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Re: Your exercise in Zen

#32774

Post by Mykeru »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: That there Rapeiarchy truly is a terrible thing. Look what it made the poor goose do, and now they are putting her away? Don't they understand that pouncehugs are called for?
"I would like a double helping of pouncehugs please.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_ ... -4-web.jpg

Another rum and coke and a blank police report form. Thnx. "

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2862 ... ance_b.jpg

"Who put this floor here?"

DownThunder
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32775

Post by DownThunder »

Karmakin wrote:
SkepticalCat wrote:
Karmakin wrote:Actually wait a second.

Notice in the last frame, the positive results from the thing IS THAT SHE GETS CATCALLED AND SHE'S HAPPY WITH IT.

More proof that SJW ideology is entirely full of shit.
Maybe her catcallers are females - they wouldn't have a problem with that, would they? Lesbians have less privilege than straight women like Surly Amy.
Ah. Good point. If it was women who were catcalling then they're not actually objectifying her, they're admiring her for her personality and intelligence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. That attitude is the root of "slut-shaming".
I think for many women, there is a struggle between the desire for collective power and individual power. Amongst feminists (hetero ones at least - ie most feminists) despite all the rhetoric that women should not be judged by physical attractiveness, they still desire to be called beautiful and reap the benefits of being regarded as beautiful in society.

When you have feminists wanting to enforce certain behavioural codes on society, this creates an internal conflict between the desire to be more attractive than other women while ensuring that not too many other women are more sexually powerful than you.

I think this explains many occasions when I have seen feminists attack male sexuality when those males were interested in someone other than the archetype embodied by said feminists, only to hypocritically portray themselves as being sexually powerful and desired by males.

It is hypocrisy, but with strategic value.

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32776

Post by Mykeru »

Oh, isn't it nice that at the time they were protecting her identity?

http://www.the-two-malcontents.com/wp-c ... Mangum.jpg

That and the photo shows she was leaving the Duke player's house laughing drunk when she later claimed to be savagely raped.

http://lacrosseunlimited.com/wp/wp-cont ... re-185.png

That reminds me of something.

Oh yeah.

http://totalfratmove.s3.amazonaws.com/w ... 363218.png

Yeah

http://i.imgur.com/NaMHRpa.jpg

another lurker
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32777

Post by another lurker »

The thing that offends me most about the second set of pictures that Mykeru has pasted is the godawful green jumpsuit she is wearing. WHAT THE FUCK?

Pitchguest
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32778

Post by Pitchguest »

Oddly enough, Mykeru, the comment section on that article is strangely absent of the usual Jezebel tripe. Only a few kooks this time, and they get hammered by the other commenters. Most of them seem to be on the same page, that this woman (however black and female) is a lying, murderous piece of shit that should be locked away for a decade or two.

Have I entered the Twilight Zone?

Gumby
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32779

Post by Gumby »

SUCK IT, STEEN!!!!

(worth enlarging to get the full story...)

http://i.imgur.com/pOFKv1a.png

Karmakin
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32780

Post by Karmakin »

Mykeru wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:By the way, notice how "misogynist" has been redefined from "hatred of women" to hatred AND "dislike, mistrust and mistreatment of women."

:doh:
Wouldn't the simple phrase "disagree with" serve their purposes, or would that give the game away?
To be fair, I do think that dislike and mistrust are close enough to the mark that I don't really see a problem in seeing those things are misogynistic as well.

Mistreatment is an entirely different matter. Or to be more specific, generally speaking it's REALLY difficult to get a sample size big enough to make that judgement, if not outright impossible.

However, just because someone does something negative to an individual woman does not make someone a misogynist. You can't tell from that one example. On the other hand, if someone says something like women are just gold diggers or you can't trust women or something like that...blah blah blah.

Yeah, that's probably a good sign that someone is a misogynist.

That said, the concept that women need to be protected as a blanket class from negative stuff is..well..misogynistic in my mind. I think that's where the real arguments come in.

What's negative?

I personally believe that women are much more sexually charged than the tropes in our society would have us to believe. Is this a misogynistic belief? Some people would say yes, some people would say no. It all comes down to if you think that belief is negative or positive (I believe the latter, of course).

That's where I think a lot of the conflict comes from. The people here, for the most part treat women like they'd treat anybody else. They get no additional deference or protection. To some people that's misogynistic, to others, it's the exact opposite.

JacquesCuze
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32781

Post by JacquesCuze »

Pitchguest wrote:Oddly enough, Mykeru, the comment section on that article is strangely absent of the usual Jezebel tripe. Only a few kooks this time, and they get hammered by the other commenters. Most of them seem to be on the same page, that this woman (however black and female) is a lying, murderous piece of shit that should be locked away for a decade or two.

Have I entered the Twilight Zone?
I made a similar observation, probably at reddit and someone said gawker folks have been having a lot of fun at Jezebel. Hopefully that is accurate. Better would be to think some women at Jezebel are totally fucked in the head.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32782

Post by Jan Steen »

Gumby wrote:SUCK IT, STEEN!!!!

(worth enlarging to get the full story...)

http://i.imgur.com/pOFKv1a.png
:lol: :clap:

But did you ask ConcentratedH2O for permission to use him for this nefarious purpose? :D

I just noticed that in the last frame she strikes the same pose as our fascist tit Lsuoma in his avatar. Surely a coincidence?

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32783

Post by Mykeru »

Pitchguest wrote:Oddly enough, Mykeru, the comment section on that article is strangely absent of the usual Jezebel tripe. Only a few kooks this time, and they get hammered by the other commenters. Most of them seem to be on the same page, that this woman (however black and female) is a lying, murderous piece of shit that should be locked away for a decade or two.

Have I entered the Twilight Zone?
Read it again. The reason they want her locked up is, from my confirmation bias reading, that she hurt "real" rape victims rather than, say, the three poor guys indicted and the total 47 LAX players implicated in at least being accessories after the fact who had their lives scorched and burned.

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32784

Post by Mykeru »

Jan Steen wrote:
Gumby wrote:SUCK IT, STEEN!!!!

(worth enlarging to get the full story...)

[img]Too_damn_awesome,_really[/img]
:lol: :clap:

But did you ask ConcentratedH2O for permission to use him for this nefarious purpose? :D

I just noticed that in the last frame she strikes the same pose as our fascist tit Lsuoma in his avatar. Surely a coincidence?
One correction: The black square balloon coming out of Surly Amy's armpit should be saying something like this:

[youtube]NzTGSKNjrp4[/youtube]

AndrewV69
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32785

Post by AndrewV69 »


Gumby
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32786

Post by Gumby »

Jan Steen wrote: :lol: :clap:

But did you ask ConcentratedH2O for permission to use him for this nefarious purpose? :D
I actually searched for a suitable version of his avatar but didn't find it. However, the one I found served the purpose well.
I just noticed that in the last frame she strikes the same pose as our fascist tit Lsuoma in his avatar. Surely a coincidence?
You know, you just might have a point there!
http://i.imgur.com/Lu8OcAK.png

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32787

Post by Mykeru »

I'll just leave this ol' fast-n-dirty here
not-sexy-amy.jpg
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Tigzy
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32788

Post by Tigzy »

@Gumby

That looks like Dudley Watkins face you put on Surly Amy there - was it from Oor Wullie?

Or can you draw like Dudley Watkins? If so - excellent!

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32789

Post by Gumby »

Tigzy wrote:@Gumby

That looks like Dudley Watkins face you put on Surly Amy there - was it from Oor Wullie?

Or can you draw like Dudley Watkins? If so - excellent!
I honestly don't know where it was from - I found it using Google Image Search and didn't pay attention to what it was.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32790

Post by Gumby »

Gumby wrote: I honestly don't know where it was from - I found it using Google Image Search and didn't pay attention to what it was.
Turns out it was just a doodle from one of those clip art download sites.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32791

Post by Tigzy »

@Gumby

I really only ask cos I like Dudley Watkins' artwork, and also because he actually looked like a cartoon character in real life:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/7 ... homson.jpg

Mykeru
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32792

Post by Mykeru »

Gumby wrote:
Tigzy wrote:@Gumby

That looks like Dudley Watkins face you put on Surly Amy there - was it from Oor Wullie?

Or can you draw like Dudley Watkins? If so - excellent!
I honestly don't know where it was from - I found it using Google Image Search and didn't pay attention to what it was.
And that's the reason I can't find the original of the cow skull and some man wearing a frock coat with a woman standing in the archway of a church. Wish I paid attention.
clean_blank_mk.jpg
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I exist as a warning to others.

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32793

Post by Steersman »

Jan Steen wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Ophie is now officially a racist islamaphobe:http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... h-critics/
Funny to see SJWs using dictionary definitions when it suits them:
Al Dente wrote: <snip>
Misogynist and sexist are not synonyms. From dictionary.com:

mi·sog·y·nist noun
a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats women.
<snip>

Sarah, you’re the one who introduced the word “intrinsic” to the discussion. Ophelia never mentioned it until she replied to your accusation of using it.
If Steersman sees this he will blow a fuse. :lol:
....
:-) Not blowing any fuses, but certainly getting a chortle or two out of the number of FftB-people – as in that comment and related blog post of Benson’s – who are apparently opening a dictionary prior to spouting off, who are actually putting brains in gear before putting mouths in motion. Can’t bode well for PZ’s efforts to anathematize such activities.

Although I do wonder at the definitions provided. For one thing, the definition of “misogynist” seems a little ambiguous about the connotations for “women” – “women collectively; womankind” or just a few persons of the female sex? The latter seems perfectly reasonable if not emminently sensible thing to be doing, depending on the specifics. But the former, particularly for the “hates” verb, certainly seems well within the scope, if not the essence, of the original definition of the word, and its unreasonable and discreditable implications. Toujours le contexte ....

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32794

Post by Steersman »

Pitchguest wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Ophie is now officially a racist islamaphobe:http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... h-critics/
Funny to see SJWs using dictionary definitions when it suits them:
<snip>
So, I guess it's okay to use dictionaries again? Wasn't that what PZ Myers deemed "losing" if it was ever used in an argument? :think:
Not sure who started that “meme”, or when or how PZ got involved, but it seems that this following comment by one “Jennifer B. Phillips” on Brayton’s blog deserves to be immortalized as a clear and early manifestation of it:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2e5qr6d.jpg

Although I’ve never been particularly enthusiastic about deprecating Nazi analogies – certainly somewhat extreme at times, but the contrast and impact are not without some value. As both Paula Kirby and Ophelia Benson have argued or implied with their use of them.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32795

Post by Mykeru »

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32796

Post by Mykeru »

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32797

Post by Mykeru »

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zenbabe
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32798

Post by zenbabe »

:lol:

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Miri's Sacred Models

#32799

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Finally got around to finishing my critique of Miri's critique of/apology for Rape Culture, etc.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32800

Post by Aneris »

Dick Strawkins wrote:
JackSkeptic wrote:As to the blockbot, I have seen Myers post about ti once and he said he was not in favour of it.
I think he's being cautious after the AtheismPlus fiasco.
The whole AtheismPlus movement was begun as an embodiment of his own opposition to 'dictionary atheism' and the promotion of an atheism that mirrored his own political viewpoints.
But Myers wasn't visibly involved as a public face of atheism plus leaving just Jen McCreight and Greta Christina as the only two prominent atheists who could be seen as leaders of the movement. Both of them dropped out for different reasons (Christina because she couldn't be bothered, and McCreight because she couldn't cope with the valid criticism she was receiving. Carrier's intellectual artillery fired on himself, leaving the field open to the likes of Setar, Grimalkin and Ceepolk to take the reins and gallop merrily towards la-la land. It was almost shocking to see how quickly SJWs will turn a movement with some potential for good, into a complete joke.
Myers, Benson and Watson were initially supportive of Aplus but soon started to treat it as embarassing family secret, the mad granny locked in the FTB attic.
The blockbot is also tied to Atheism plus - it's run by some of the same idiots behind atheismplus, and more importantly, it's run by oolon, someone who was seen through as a disingenuous poseur by Myers months ago.
Some of the people on the blockbot team are almost indistinuishable from POEs - banning Lady Gaga for example.
Myers may be an asshole but he's smart enough to avoid getting tied in to the actions of that lot.
There is no way to be smart about it, since, according to them, Atheism Plus was declared to be a “must have” view. Otherwise the individual is considered a misogynist, racist, ableist and other things. Richard Carrier went on and argued from that position in his famously downvoted video, and PZ's whole anti-dictionary-atheist stance rests on the idea that people who are against these things must adopt some label to differentiate themselves from racists, misogynists etc. His idea was later, implicitly, that “Atheist” should mean to be against these things, too, presumably when he noticed that the Atheism Plus label wasn't working well. Anyway, this argument was at the heart of their “with us or against us” rhetoric.

Ergo, the whole Social Justice League are also Atheism Plussers in some sense and in my opinion not allowed off the hook they have attached to themselves. PZ or Carrier or someone can gnash their teeth and come out an announce they were wrong about this, with lessons they learned from that episode. I don't think it will happen and bet they just sit this out, in the same way PZ never explained what he understands under “patriarchy” the concept his followers are now foremost against and use under his nose (if he wrote about it, I'd love a link).

rayshul
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32801

Post by rayshul »

I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.

DownThunder
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32802

Post by DownThunder »

rayshul wrote:I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.
What did you say in response? Over the past year Ive noticed some rhetoric popping up in conversations with some friends. One was quite taken back with my outright critique of such language, but was ultimately open to dialogue without the usual online inevitability of accusations of racism/sexism/etc. Another (former, I guess) friend seems to have gone off the deep end with this stuff and has apparently cut off quite a few friends.

James Caruthers
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32803

Post by James Caruthers »

rayshul wrote:I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.
The best response is to agree with him and then use his exact arguments to argue that all violent video games should be banned because they cause real-world violence.

Just goes to show that if Jack Thompson and Hillary "won't somebody think of the children" Clinton had used the cloak of feminism to campaign against violent video games in the '90s, every video game above an "E" rating today would be banned.

Guestus Aurelius
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32804

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

Dictionaries are for privileged people who can afford to use words straightforwardly because their arguments don't hinge on equivocation.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32805

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

I hadn't realized all the things that were part of Rape Culture until I looked them up for that Miri post.

I'm pretty sure now that Uncle Wiggly molested me as a child.

zenbabe
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32806

Post by zenbabe »

DownThunder wrote:
rayshul wrote:I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.
What did you say in response? Over the past year Ive noticed some rhetoric popping up in conversations with some friends. One was quite taken back with my outright critique of such language, but was ultimately open to dialogue without the usual online inevitability of accusations of racism/sexism/etc. Another (former, I guess) friend seems to have gone off the deep end with this stuff and has apparently cut off quite a few friends.
It all makes sense if you think of feminist ideology as a larch.
... er, a toilet.
... no wait. A cult. It all makes sense if you think of it as a cult. A brain washing horrible cult.

One thing that's always troubled me, deeply, about nazi Germany (sorry yes I'm going there!) isn't so much that there was an insane man in charge, but that he was supported, and not just slightly. His rhetoric was so appealing to so many, it was.... kool aid. Sweet tasty poison. His broad and strong appeal, the people liked him!, horrified me as much as anything back when I first learned of it, and it still does.

Today, it's shocking and sad, to see so many otherwise sane people, of various countries, social strata, financial status, gender (though there's quite a bit of homogeneity too, the pink and the pudgy and the female and middle class) go off on the utterly wrong track of belief, then insist everyone adhere. Everyone.

Bow down and salute the glorious SJL leaders! Obey the SJL thought police! Acquiesce to the thought laws!

Blech

zenbabe
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32807

Post by zenbabe »

DownThunder wrote:
rayshul wrote:I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.
What did you say in response? Over the past year Ive noticed some rhetoric popping up in conversations with some friends. One was quite taken back with my outright critique of such language, but was ultimately open to dialogue without the usual online inevitability of accusations of racism/sexism/etc. Another (former, I guess) friend seems to have gone off the deep end with this stuff and has apparently cut off quite a few friends.
It all makes sense if you think of feminist ideology as a larch.
... er, a toilet.
... no wait. A cult. It all makes sense if you think of it as a cult. A brain washing horrible cult.

One thing that's always troubled me, deeply, about nazi Germany (sorry yes I'm going there!) isn't so much that there was an insane man in charge, but that he was supported, and not just slightly. His rhetoric was so appealing to so many, it was.... kool aid. Sweet tasty poison. His broad and strong appeal, the people liked him!, horrified me as much as anything back when I first learned of it, and it still does.

Today, it's shocking and sad, to see so many otherwise sane people, of various countries, social strata, financial status, gender (though there's quite a bit of homogeneity too, the pink and the pudgy and the female and middle class) go off on the utterly wrong track of belief, then insist everyone adhere. Everyone.

Bow down and salute the glorious SJL leaders! Obey the SJL thought police! Acquiesce to the thought laws!

Blech

zenbabe
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32808

Post by zenbabe »

Ok. No more phone posts.

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32809

Post by Steersman »

zenbabe wrote:Ok. No more phone posts.
:) Multitasking does tend to cause one to drop a stitch or two, doesn't it? ;-)

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32810

Post by Karmakin »

James Caruthers wrote:
rayshul wrote:I just had a run in with a friend who appears to be a SJW. I had no idea.

...we were talking about video games, and suddenly it's all rape culture and shit.

OMFG IT'S LIKE A POISON. It's the most toxic fucking meme.
The best response is to agree with him and then use his exact arguments to argue that all violent video games should be banned because they cause real-world violence.

Just goes to show that if Jack Thompson and Hillary "won't somebody think of the children" Clinton had used the cloak of feminism to campaign against violent video games in the '90s, every video game above an "E" rating today would be banned.
That's the thing you see all over the place. It's supposed to be this dispassionate academic exercise that apparently is at the same time the most important thing ever AND not something that anybody should actually have any sort of emotional response towards.

Make the emotional response real, and they don't know how to react to it.

If video games were as bad as these people say they are, why shouldn't someone feel like a terrible awful person for enjoying them? That's where I find the argument falls entirely apart. Because either their issue is a red herring, or they want to initiate this big culture war, and this justifies the opposition against them.

But above all, the SJL are TERRIFIED of people intellectualizing the opposition to them. They don't want people to say to them, we don't want to feel guilty for enjoying these relatively tame bits of media, so fuck off. Because that's a simple argument that I think will resonate in the long term.

Skep tickle
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32811

Post by Skep tickle »

zenbabe wrote:Ok. No more phone posts.
See, now, I just thought you felt so strongly that it merited repeating. ;)

zenbabe
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32812

Post by zenbabe »

Steers and skep are both awful for irresistibly tempting me to risk another accidental double post!

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32813

Post by Steersman »

Guestus Aurelius wrote:Dictionaries are for privileged people who can afford to use words straightforwardly because their arguments don't hinge on equivocation.
Considering JackSkeptic’s signature – "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." – and its source, it seems that that attitude has been around for rather a long time.

However, I can’t argue that it is an intrinsically or a categorically fallacious process – to extrapolate from one set of cases to others, to search for and use analogies between those groups or sets of cases. For instance, consider these two definitions for the word “religion”:
re•li•gion (r-ljn) n.
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Presumably, item (4) was the result of the prevalence of various colloquial expressions that manifested or entailed that connotation – for example, “golfing is their religion”. And which also justifies the claim that for some “new atheists”, “atheism is their religion” – and, for people like PZ and his ilk, a rather dogmatic and narrow-minded one at that.

The problems tend to mushroom though when people fail to note that the various cases being compared in the analogies are no longer similar in some aspects even though they might be so in others. For instance, in the previously noted definition for “misogyny”, “hatred for all women” might, at a stretch, be considered somewhat analogous to “dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats [some] women”. But that hardly justifies trying to apply the quite reasonable pejorative connontations of the former case to the latter ones – except maybe in the minds of sloppy thinkers or egregious demagogues.

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Re: Miri's Sacred Models

#32814

Post by Steersman »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Finally got around to finishing my critique of Miri's critique of/apology for Rape Culture, etc.
A comment that I just finished posting on your blog, though it seems to have disappeared for some reason:
Steersman wrote:Quite a good post Matt – a link to which I’ve posted on Miri’s blog should she wish to try her hand at a rebuttal. Although it is in moderation so entirely moot whether she’ll be informed of it through that route at least.

In any case, you’ve certainly added some grist to the mill; for example, your links between Lacan and Butler. And I’ll certainly agree that the “models” she’s offered as examples – privilege, rape culture, and gender as performance [GAP] – have a great many holes in them. For instance, I was rather surprised, flabbergasted to be exact, to note Miri’s own criticisms of GAP, as well as the implicit and consequential criticism of her own belief in gender as “largely a social construct” with this comment of hers:
Miri wrote:Further evidence against the model of gender as performance is that inborn psychological gender differences do seem to exist. They aren’t nearly as significant or pronounced as the media and some evolutionary psychologists paint them to be, but they exist. .....

If psychological gender differences that are caused by biology exist, then there may be a small biological component to gender roles, as well.
Rather surprising too that Stephanie Zvan commented in that post on Miri’s blog, but didn’t rise to the bait, to the challenge that that presents to Zvan’s own belief in gender as a social construct. Methinks there’s a little bit of “cognitive dissonance” happening in those quarters – and welcome it is.

However, I also happen to think that there is at least a grain or two of “truth” in all three of those models, as well as in the “gender as a social construct” one that seems to undergird much of the other three. And the essence, the essential element, in all of them seems to be related to the phenomenon of emergence, a concept which has some solid, hard-edged, physics and math behind it to lend some credibility to the idea that the group, the collection, has a natural tendency to enforce or impose modes of behaviour on the components that comprise it.

While I realize that you weren’t particularly impressed with my quoting from Stuart Kauffman’s popular survey of the idea in his At Home in the Universe: The Search for Laws of Self-Organization and Complexity, you may wish to tackle his more detailed Origins of Order: Self-Organization and Selection in Evolution (haven’t read it yet myself), or John Holland’s Emergence: From Chaos to Order for a more in-depth exposition.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32815

Post by piginthecity »

I've put up a blog post in (belated) response to CriticalG's challenge to analyse why the catastrophe of social justice happened.

Why the SJL got traction - response to CriticalG

Give me a thrill and leave a comment. I got six 'FuckYous' from Mr. Glasser in one eMail, so I'm counting on the power of the slymepit to give me at least seven 'FuckOffs' as it's christmas !

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32816

Post by JackSkeptic »

Steersman wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Ophie is now officially a racist islamaphobe:http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... h-critics/
Funny to see SJWs using dictionary definitions when it suits them:
Al Dente wrote: <snip>
Misogynist and sexist are not synonyms. From dictionary.com:

mi·sog·y·nist noun
a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats women.
<snip>

Sarah, you’re the one who introduced the word “intrinsic” to the discussion. Ophelia never mentioned it until she replied to your accusation of using it.
If Steersman sees this he will blow a fuse. :lol:
....
:-) Not blowing any fuses, but certainly getting a chortle or two out of the number of FftB-people – as in that comment and related blog post of Benson’s – who are apparently opening a dictionary prior to spouting off, who are actually putting brains in gear before putting mouths in motion. Can’t bode well for PZ’s efforts to anathematize such activities.

Although I do wonder at the definitions provided. For one thing, the definition of “misogynist” seems a little ambiguous about the connotations for “women” – “women collectively; womankind” or just a few persons of the female sex? The latter seems perfectly reasonable if not emminently sensible thing to be doing, depending on the specifics. But the former, particularly for the “hates” verb, certainly seems well within the scope, if not the essence, of the original definition of the word, and its unreasonable and discreditable implications. Toujours le contexte ....
It is a lot more insidious than simply using a linguistic change in a word adopted by society which the Dictionaries have not caught up with yet. The way SJL's change words is to have a specific meaning but with several definitions. Very, very sloppy. So a Misogynist is a very bad, terrible person who must be shunned and punished but with several vague features or characteristics to assert misogyny exists.

The same goes for one of the most nasty concepts, cultural appropriation, which can be applied from copying someones music to liking their dress style or adopting some of their words. But the result is, again, an evil and hateful person who matches any one of their numerous definitions. This is insane as it denies the trivial matter that we are a communal species and copying someone's ideas is not only considered good for the society as a whole but excellent for cultural understanding and crucial for true equality. But SJL's hate equality, they do not want it as it would deny them their chance to assert moral superiority and boss people around.

The sexist tropes in video games is the same. A very sloppy definition with specific meaning. This sloppiness allows no subtlety or context. Of course, context is always rejected as 'not magic' It is deliberately dishonest.

Myers with his definition of atheism. He sees atheism as everywhere and applying to everything even when clearly not fit for purpose, such as critical thinking. So his definition of atheism is highly varied. However the result of being an atheist can only mean one thing, which just happens to perfectly fit his political and social beliefs. What a surprise.

Anyway, TLDR version, that is why they sometimes reject dictionaries and sometimes accept them. Their thinking is so sloppy it is not possible to know what they really mean half the time and fitting to a dictionary definition is more a matter of chance.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32817

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

piginthecity wrote:I've put up a blog post in (belated) response to CriticalG's challenge to analyse why the catastrophe of social justice happened.

Why the SJL got traction - response to CriticalG

Give me a thrill and leave a comment. I got six 'FuckYous' from Mr. Glasser in one eMail, so I'm counting on the power of the slymepit to give me at least seven 'FuckOffs' as it's christmas !
Third paragraph. It's "prominent", not "promenant". I'll read the rest when it's fixed.

/Orthograph Nazi

JackSkeptic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32818

Post by JackSkeptic »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
piginthecity wrote:I've put up a blog post in (belated) response to CriticalG's challenge to analyse why the catastrophe of social justice happened.

Why the SJL got traction - response to CriticalG

Give me a thrill and leave a comment. I got six 'FuckYous' from Mr. Glasser in one eMail, so I'm counting on the power of the slymepit to give me at least seven 'FuckOffs' as it's christmas !
Third paragraph. It's "prominent", not "promenant". I'll read the rest when it's fixed.

/Orthograph Nazi
I've always wanted to say this but never had the chance. Is it nice in Nice?

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32819

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

It's very nice in Nice, indeed. Sunny and quite warm right now.

piginthecity
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#32820

Post by piginthecity »

... and what biscuits are you eating ?

Locked