JREF Board - Shermer Print screens

[UncaYimmy]

Agreed. It does follow, however, that he felt the need to distort the facts immediately after the events in question. Instead of saying “We had lengthy precoital walk and then enthusiastic sober sex” he tells a different story entirely, reducing any sexual element to mere “gossip rumors” and referring to Alison not as a sex partner but as a “good kid.”

People lie about whom they fuck all the time for many different reasons. Suppose you have drunken sex the person who hired you to come speak at some conference where you're being called an expert (say Victims of Dunning-Krueger Effect Unite). Suppose you also know this woman's semi-boyfriend, who is also someone who is on the same lecture circuit.

Now, once you get over celebrating the loss of your virginity, are you going to be forthright about it to anyone who asks?

Me? I'd lie about it unless I was convinced there was a compelling reason to come forth, like seeing the future where I'm accused of rape by bloggers.

[d4m10n]

I did, in fact, lose my virginity at VDKon but I'm not about to go bragging about it now. We have a saying in the Victims of Dunning-Krueger community: “What happens at VDKon stays at VDKon.”

Welcome to the Pit, by the way. I'm sure you'll find the mod team here much more to your tastes than those capricious bastards at JREFF.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I know Matt isn't going to like what I have to say because it is from my own personal experience.

I actually like most of what you've had to say. Thanks for sharing the story. Welcome to the Pit, btw, and fuck off.

And that is at the bottom line of this thread.

The only thing that is in evidence here is anecdotal hearsay and with that Shermer stands accused as a rapist.

You guys have got your heads up your fucking arses.

That lassie Smith made no complaint at the time the appropriate authorities, so the default position has to be that it is absolute bullshit.

End of story.

I tend to agree -- It may have been rape, but it sounds like probably not. So, as a skeptic, I can't condemn Shermer ... for that. However, since Smith and Wagg are saying it was rape, and they claim at the time they considered it rape, we should analyze the whole thing based on that assumption. As a thought exercise, if nothing else. Mykeru's latest vid does that, and the common sense conclusions arising from that perspective are devastating to Smith's & Wagg's stories, and to Smith & Wagg's actions.

Hope you discern the distinction, and realize we are not very far off in opinion.

[Nec_V20]

Welcome to the Pit, btw, and fuck off.

Well you can go and take a flying one at a rolling doughnut yourself.

That reminds me of one of my favourite jokes.

A Japanese tourist goes into a London bank and asks, "How much Pound I get for 20,000 Yen?".

The guy behind the counter tells him and the tourist goes back out.

A day later the Japanese tourist goes to the same bank and asks the guy behind the counter, "How much Pound I get for 20,000 Yen?".

The guy behind the counter tells him and the Japanese tourist says, "Why I no get as many Pound today for my Yen than yesterday?".

The teller says, "I'm sorry sir, that's fluctuations"

The Japanese tourist then says, "Well fluck you Blitish as well, but why I no get as many Pound for my Yen as yesterday?"

I tend to agree -- It may have been rape, but it sounds like probably not. So, as a skeptic, I can't condemn Shermer ... for that. However, since Smith and Wagg are saying it was rape, and they claim at the time they considered it rape, we should analyze the whole thing based on that assumption. As a thought exercise, if nothing else. Mykeru's latest vid does that, and the common sense conclusions arising from that perspective are devastating to Smith's & Wagg's stories, and to Smith & Wagg's actions.

Hope you discern the distinction, and realize we are not very far off in opinion.

I watched the video and there was one passage where Mykeru talked about the devaluation of the word "Rape" and it reminded me of something which I think illustrates this point to a tee.

The date was May 25th 2005 and the place was the Atatürk Stadium in Istanbul, Turkey.

Liverpool FC was facing A.C. Milan in the final of the Champions League.

In the first half Milan took a commanding 3-0 lead (the game in the first half went very much like the Germany - Brazil match in the 2014 World Cup and Liverpool looked just as dead as Brazil). In the second half Liverpool clawed their way back into it again and at full time it was 3-3. Extra time brought no new goals and Liverpool won on the penalty shootout.

This was an extraordinary performance on the part of Liverpool; however next day the English papers, having blown all their superlatives on nothing games like Banff vs. Bumfuck in some second division leaving themselves with none left for this very superlative worthy game. They had effectively rendered themselves mute.

The rape, rape rapity rape rape squad of the Alison Smith, Rebecca Watson pity party devalue and make a mockery of the word rape and women, such as the one I knew, that really were raped.

I can see now what you are trying to get at, but I cannot find it within me to entertain the notion as a fancy.

Maybe it's my autism. I just cannot play that thought experiment - or rather instance of cognitive masturbation.

[sinister]

To the lurking JREFers, why don't you log in and make your point against what we sre saying here? Running to JREF to post strawmen knowing full well we will be moderated out of the discussion is both intellectually dishonest and more evidence of your forum's obvious failure to produce skeptical discussions.

Oh, I forgot, welcome and fuck off. Maybe if you log in we'll share some lynx.

[d4m10n]

However, since Smith and Wagg are saying it was rape, and they claim at the time they considered it rape, we should analyze the whole thing based on that assumption.

I cannot find, right at the moment, where exactly Jeff called it that.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

That'd be where he says "what she told me that night matches what she's saying now."

[d4m10n]

Nope. That's him saying that she said the same thing at time A and time B.

What I'm asking you to show is where Jeff said, in his own considered opinion, that it was raep.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

How about you show me where you said, in your considered opinion, that Jeff Wagg is suspiciously dodgy on whether he ever believed Smith. If that's your point here, then surely you've expressed it previously -- or at least replied in the affirmative to the several times this possibility has been raised at the Pit by myself or others.

But it's not your point; you have no point. You just trawl through a discussion, ignoring any given argument over and over, until finally one iteration of that argument gives you enough semantic leeway to 'expose' it as a logical fallacy. That's not constructive, that's not Pitvölkisch. And it's certainly not clever, despite what you tell yourself.

Parse this: Grow up, son.

[Nec_V20]

That's not constructive, that's not Pitvölkisch.

Rarely, very rarely, I see a word construct that fits perfectly into the context of what the person is wanting to say; and what is more that I am jealous that I did not think of it myself.

I really like your use of the word "Pitvölkisch" (and not just because I am German) and abase myself before that stroke of genius.

I know I am meant to end this post with something like, "OK now go and fuck off", but my heart just isn't in it.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I can't take full credit for the term -- Caruthers has been posting "Iron Pill" comics, and 'volkisch' ( as a noun) has become something of an inside joke here.

Aber als ich es hier nutze, haelt es auch die breitere, deutsche Bedeutung.

[Nec_V20]

Aus meiner Sicht. und im Zusammenhang, ist das Wort wirklich perfekt.

It ranks up there with "Schadenfreude" and "Kindergarten".

I am gradually being instructed in the art and science of "Pitvölkerkunde" :D

[d4m10n]

How about you show me where you said, in your considered opinion, that Jeff Wagg is suspiciously dodgy on whether he ever believed Smith.

You said above that Wagg actually called it rape. Where is Strawkins’ wonderful moving goalpost image now?

[d4m10n]

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