Survivalists are morons

[Nec_V20]

OK I am going to get hammered for the title of this thread but just hear me out before you go nuts telling me what a wanker I am.

As one does, I was doing a "Chinese whispers" tour of YouTube (that is I start off with something and then I look at the suggestions and click one and carry on from there - very soon I am far removed from the topic of my original search) and wound up with a video from the SHTF Survivalist Nutbags.

I find it highly amusing when they talk about their weapons.

They seem to have a mental disconnect with regard to what they are postulating and what they would be taking with them.

They speak about the end of our civilisation as we know it, but the equipment - especially in the light of weaponry suggest that they haven't thought it through.

If push comes to shove then you would be pretty much limited to what you could carry on your back - remember civilisation as we know it has come to an end.

Once you have shot all the rounds you have for your AR15 or AK47 or whatever it will just be an elaborate club/walking stick. Good luck finding the makings for new ammo, even if you do keep the brass shells.

Here is a comparison of ammo per pound of weight:
133 rounds .22LR
10 rounds 3-inch 12-gauge steel #1 shot
21 rounds 30-30 Winchester
23 .243 Winchester
17 .30-06

or

Of course you are a total wimp if you suggest a springer air rifle - a pound of air rifle ammo would be over 1,800 rounds. You can also make your own ammo - all you need is lead a pellet mould and a swager (no I don't mean "swagger", I know that's how you read that word).

And of course it is no point in eulogising over your telescopic sight - open (iron) sights are the only way to go.

However bring this up and they go nuts.

They will reply with "You can always get more ammo!". Where? Has the apocalypse taken out everything except the local Walmart?

Then you get the, "Good luck taking down a deer with a piss-ant pellet gun!"

Now I have only added one exclamation mark at the end of the quotes but they usually end with "!!!eleventy-one!!!" Seriously, you know someone is mentally deranged when they use more than one exclamation mark at the end of their sentences. I have also spelled everything correctly whereas the replies I get suggest that the person writing the comment thought that spell-checking meant moving their lips when they read.

How long can you live off a deer before the meat spoils? You are also on the move - per pedes - and you are going to lug a deer carcass along with you? They also seem to think that all you would need is a socket because that's where the electricity comes form to run the needed freezer ("We don't need no librul infertsticture!!!111!!!").

Realistically you would be living off small game. When you listen to what kind of gun they want to take along all that would be left of a bunny would be some fur, a wide scattering of mince and if you are really fortunate you might find one of its feet to rub.

I thought these guys were meant to know their Bibles and their Guns. Whatever happened to "The right tool for the right job".

I could go on and on with regard to my excursion into this land of the bizarre but the post would reach "War and Peace" proportions".

Try it for yourself and post something rational in the comments section of their video, then sit back and :popcorn: whilst the abuse starts.

[Opyt]

Meh.

You expected the fundamentalist mindset to express rationality. You set the bar too high for rednecks. It happens. :popcorn:

The "smart" survivalists probably already have plans like that, and probably included solar panels to go with their "hidey-holes". They probably also plan on using a wood burning stove, candles for light (or, the more responsible approach of sleeping at night if they're in a group that can have someone pull guard duty), and no computer near the list of appliances they'll be using.

I would even venture a guess that if there were some kind of civilization destroying apocalypse tomorrow, the ones arming themselves with a .30-06 or .223 rifle are probably intending to kill other people. They almost certainly won't be shooting their own food, especially after the first "HOLY SHIT THAT WAS HILARIOUS" rabbit kill. They'll be stealing it from others in all likelihood, and devolving to new levels of stupid.

[Nec_V20]

Meh.

You expected the fundamentalist mindset to express rationality. You set the bar too high for rednecks. It happens. :popcorn:

The "smart" survivalists probably already have plans like that, and probably included solar panels to go with their "hidey-holes". They probably also plan on using a wood burning stove, candles for light (or, the more responsible approach of sleeping at night if they're in a group that can have someone pull guard duty), and no computer near the list of appliances they'll be using.

I would even venture a guess that if there were some kind of civilization destroying apocalypse tomorrow, the ones arming themselves with a .30-06 or .223 rifle are probably intending to kill other people. They almost certainly won't be shooting their own food, especially after the first "HOLY SHIT THAT WAS HILARIOUS" rabbit kill. They'll be stealing it from others in all likelihood, and devolving to new levels of stupid.

With regard to the rationality aspect, yes I did. That would be the one area where there could be a meeting of minds between they and I. They have to know the disadvantages related to having a firearm as opposed to an air rifle with regard to the sheer weight of ammo that one would have to lug around.

But it gets even better.

You have some who see the advantages of having an air rifle so what do they propose?

A dumbass cheap .22 calibre that puts out 20+ ft/lbs (foot/lbs) muzzle velocity.

I need to go into some technical details here so if you don't want to read them the skip ahead.

The reason why they want 20+ ft/lbs is so that the trajectory of the .22 projectile is flatter (let's say that your iron sights are set for 15 yards your over/under will not be significant enough due to the time of the projectile leaving the muzzle to the point of impact - gravity works on all objects at the rate of 32 ft/second squared - such that you will miss a kill shot).

So what is wrong with that?

The problem is that a projectile starts losing impetus from the piston compressing the air after travelling about six inches up the barrel, after that the speed of the projectile itself starts to create an area of underpressure between the piston chamber and the barrel thus accelerating the piston over the last pieces of its journey causing what is known as "piston slam".

This is not so good for the spring, but it is bad for the piston seal. If the piston seal wears out the slam becomes more intense and then it becomes a bigger problem for the spring and when the spring wears out then your air rifle is a club/walking stick. Of course in a SHTF scenario one would have remembered to have a number of spare seals and a couple of spare springs.

The optimum is that the piston goes as far as it can and the plug which represents your projectile slows it down to a standstill on a cushion of air BEFORE it hits the metal wall of the piston itself. This is reached at about 12-14 ft/lbs. Higher ft/lbs gives you a higher muzzle velocity of course, but it goes to the detriment of the power source (seals or spring).

So what is the answer? Get a .177 air rifle. The projectile is light enough to be accelerated to a high subsonic velocity (eliminating ballistic aiming problems) and it will kill small game just as dead as a .22. It does so however with less ft/lbs having to be expended by the power unit thus increasing its MTBF by a huge margin.

So then he has a rifle that does not come with and cannot be fitted with iron sights - so he is dependant on a telescopic sight for aiming. What happens when the telescopic sight breaks? He has reduced his otherwise perfectly functional air rifle into a club/walking stick.

Don't even get me started on the inherent inaccuracy of a projectile leaving the muzzle at a high transonic velocity.

To get back to the dumbass cheap .22. It is cheap for a reason, the components are "just good enough" to get past the warranty with expected usage. This is not such a great weapon to decide upon if one is looking at an SHTF scenario. You really want to spend the extra bucks to get a good solid rifle.

I will give you that their scenarios tend to revolve around killing other people rather than surviving more than a week without the perks of civilisation (or "librul infertsticture").

[Opyt]

Yeah, to be honest, I'm not your target audience. If there were an apocalyptic event, I'd be one of the first to go. I have a tendency to make people extremely nervous. Dunno why. I can fill you in with a PM if you want. Some gossip is just too juicy for forums.

[TiBo]

Guess it's a cultural thing ? "Survivalists" here are funny old people, running around in the woods, eating insects out of rotten tree stomps.

[Nec_V20]

Yeah, to be honest, I'm not your target audience. If there were an apocalyptic event, I'd be one of the first to go. I have a tendency to make people extremely nervous. Dunno why. I can fill you in with a PM if you want. Some gossip is just too juicy for forums.

You aren't my target audience. You replied and I elucidated. With regard to people I'm autistic (Asperger's) and I have a similar effect on people so I can see where you are coming from.

I take it your reason for making people nervous isn't as simple as mine.

[Nec_V20]

Guess it's a cultural thing ? "Survivalists" here are funny old people, running around in the woods, eating insects out of rotten tree stomps.

I don't have a problem with the "never left the Boy Scouts" kind of survivalists.