Well again, I have to emphasise that I'm speaking of a very limited sample, and that sample itself could depend on the demographics of my particular area. I don't live in a very multi-racial town, and the 'diluting' effect of the majority culture - amongst other possible variables, such as employment prospects, crime rates etc. - could play some part in the secularisation of the muslims I'm aware of (though I should add that one of my muslim acquaintances is from London). How it might be be in, say, Bradford, which has a large muslim community (largely descended from Pakistani immigrants, I believe) I can't say, having never lived or even been there. I think it fair to point out, though, that much of the percieved 'threat' from the Islamists can be down to the sensationalist attitudes of the press. I recall when that gang of Choudhary-ites were protesting the funerals of the British soldiers who had been stationed in Afghainistan, and in typical fashion, the papers were not shy of posting screaming Jihadi Rage Boy pics across the sheets. What they largely failed to report on, however, were the counter-demonstrations by the BDSM (British Muslims for Secular Democracy). Again, to me this is a sign that there's a definite streak of secularism within the British muslim community. If it's a strong streak which is, at the moment, shy of coming out - well, I can only hope. But something is there, at least.papillon wrote:I'm not sure I'm quite as optimistic as yourself, and you're right that Chowdhary et al love the conflation of racism/anti-Islamism. They seem more than happy to turn the fruits of enlightenment to their advantage (free speech, freedom of expression, human rights etc) yet would deny those very things if only they had any authority.Tigzy wrote:Then again, there's at least some seeds of hope that Islam itself could be quite comfortable in a secular world, and perhaps even be coming to grips with its own age of enlightenment.
The concept of a Muslim 'Ummah', or single global body of Muslims makes it extremely difficult to criticise any aspect of the faith. In order to critique a single aspect of Islam, you must first insult or offend a huge number of average Mohammads as well as a bunch of extreme leftist UAF who will be only too happy to be offended on their behalf.
I find the contrast between the largely Sikh immigrants of the '70's and the modern muslims (native and immigrant) is quite staggering. What makes them so different? There is a huge elephant in the room and in my opinion it's mainly religious and not so much culturally motivated. Sikhs and Hindus do not seem to have the same grievances as many Muslims do People like the EDL are doing themselves no favours at all, in that they are the obvious choice for any far right groups to affiliate with and of course that is all anyone sees in the press.
People who may have had sympathy with their grievances have been put off by the 'ray gun' stuff and the Chowdary's of this world are laughing all the way to the dole office.
If change is to happen, it will have to be from the bottom up, a groundswell of popular opinion that gradually effects change, rather than a top-down change from the Imams etc as this would necessitate a revision of scripture, which I don't think likely.
That said, as tragic events have proved, it only needs the tinest handful of militant Islamists to cause carnage, which is why I'm certainly not suggesting complacency. And this strain of violent religious militancy does appear more prominent in Islam, than - as you point out - Sikhism, for example. Certainly, the sikhs I've seen appear to have found the perfect medium, in retaining a strong religeo-cultural identity while at the same time being very much at ease with the non-sikh population. I expect Islam has a lot of trouble in this regard in that it espouses deficiency on the part of non-muslims, and robust - if not violent, depending on your interpretation - exhortations that the deficient should convert to Islam or submit to its authority. Whereas with other religious identities from the Indian subcontinent, such as Sikhism and Hinduism, there are no such demands that I am aware of (though it should be noted that militant Hinduism is a force in India, as espoused by Bal Thackeray and his Shiv Sena party).
As for UAF. Fuckin joke - as are the SWP. That's the problem with socialism - or at least, left-leaning organisations - as it tends to attract the trust-fund SJWs like flies. I guess my leftiness - such as it is - in being more concerned about renationalising public utilities, the right of workers to join unions and not be exploited, etc etc, is kind of old fashioned these days.
