Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

[welch]

In other news entirely, it looks like Megan Phelps is no longer part of the WBC (if this is old news, I apologize):

https://medium.com/turning-points/83d2ef8ba4f5

Good for her.

She's not quite right about always being tied to what she said and did in the WBC. People get it. We allow people to have second acts, and she gets props for escaping the nut hatch. A lot will be forgiven.

Nathan Phelps did it. I'm sure she can too (and her sister). I can't imagine how very isolated they both must feel, however. Having your entire life being wrapped up in that family and then to be cut off and treated as though you had died.

It will be interesting to see if they can go one step further and realise there is no God either ...

that's minor. She's left a group of nutters, and wants to do something useful. Religious or not, good on her.

[cunt]

Is it for example, the implication that at some level people have involuntary triggers that at heart make us no different from other animals?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

I have to agree on the first point and the second. Question is borked though, does the PUA say that he touched someone without consent. Or does he contend that he's the innocent, injured party?

[decius]

Welch's point I believe is that PZ has always been a vindictive, small-minded asshole. No one should be surprised that he is now directing his venom towards targets within the atheist/skeptic community.

I agree with that part. Like I said other times, we failed to exercise sufficient sceptical scrutiny. I took for granted that he would not quotemine and misrepresent opponents, but I later noticed that he had been doing that all along including to creationists (can one go any lower than that?). I probably mistake vitriol for humour, too.

[AndrewV69]

How did I react? By owning the living shit out of you and deicus. I'd do that anyway.

Oh dear. I have been trolled.

[cunt]

I think you're attempting to anti-troll me AndrewV69, in a desperate bid to escape my incisive questioning.

[cunt]

It'd really be easier if you just admitted the guy was probably a sleazy little twat who deserves no sympathy.

[Scented Nectar]

How much would it take for you to phone the police scented? I mean, i've approached probably hundreds of women, and a lot of the time it's gone badly. Never to the point they phoned the cops though.

Police? It would have to be some sort of physical assault or at least someone physically blocking my way in attempt to force me to talk to them. However, I could see how people might want to report him as an ordinary street nuisance, like if he's constantly bugging the same women or staying in the same street/intersection approaching person after person. That could probably cause someone to call the police. Just like they would if someone kept trying to sell them used cars by approaching them on the street.

[Dick Strawkins]

Now you might realize the irony that this is basically the 'Dear Muslima' argument (except it is Watson making it rather than getting outraged by it) but you might also see that there isn't exactly a solid reason to assume those making vile comments on that video were actually atheists. Most likely they were men in the anti-circumcision camp, which, as far as I can tell, is not an atheistic movement.
So right from the outset we have a problem between Watson and what are most likely mens rights activists rather than atheists. From that point on she has linked any criticism of her to MRA supporters, misogynists etc and stated, without any evidence, that the atheist community is a hotbed for these individuals.

Have you not just done what Twatson has done? And unless I am mistaken, while taking her to task for it?

I believe I have asked you before to think about what it is about MRAs that appears to set your teeth on edge, but I can not recall you being able to come up with some sort of definitive answer or explain it to well.

This seems to be (at least to me), a blind spot Dick. Even if you are not an MRA, it is an easy one to spot. I really do think you need to work on this because it is a hook upon which someone can easily hang a dismissal of your entire argument.

In sum, I believe you need more weasel words.

I think if I was in your position, and being aware of my biases, I would find some way to smear those poor widdle defensless MRAs (who want nothing more than unicorns and rainbows for all) while maintaining some sort of plausablle deniability. It is easy enough to do. So why not take the time to do it?

Here is an example:

Most likely they were men in the anti-circumcision camp, which, as far as I can tell, is not an atheistic movement. So right from the outset we have a problem between Watson and what are most likely what some would call mens rights activists rather than atheists. From that point on she has linked any criticism of her to MRA supporters, misogynists etc and stated, without any evidence, that the atheist community is a hotbed for these individuals.

See? This is how you can do a smear by association, while you maintain a stance of plausible deniability.

But I do wish you would think about what it is about MRAs that gets you hot. It may take awhile so I am not expecting an answer from you any time soon. But meanwhile, maintaining cover is recommended, if only for the sake of protecting your argument.

Andrew,
I answered your question about MRAs before - I think you were specifically asking about their activities I didn't like, and I gave the example of doxxing of student protesters.
Do I have a problem with MRAs? I give MRAs virtually no thought.
I don't regard any movement which is primarily based on the simple opposition of another ideology (in this case feminism) to be a serious intellectual endeavour.
That is not to say I dont find everything they do to be without merit. Visitation rights for fathers and highlighting of false accusations are subjects worthy of attention.
And many individual MRA's themselves seem to have views on a lot of subjects that seem indistinguishable from my own position.
The reason I don't consider the movement as a whole to be worthy of much attention is that the good parts are really encompassed by egalitarian humanism.
The other reason is all the stupid in-group shit that accompanies any political movement, particularly a movement that seems to have a lot of immature individuals who think an argument is best won by calling their opponent gay...

But I do wish you would think about what it is about MRAs that gets you hot

or issuing threats...

It may take awhile so I am not expecting an answer from you any time soon. But meanwhile, maintaining cover is recommended, if only for the sake of protecting your argument.

I put up with enough of that stupid teenage stuff when I was a kid.
Kindly grow up.


Now, as for the rest of your post, freaking out about some percieved slight on MRAs, give over.
The anti circumcision movement IS one of mens rights.
It not be share it's priorities with AVFM or even you but who else is involved in protesting circumcision in the US, if not primarily men?
Perhaps there is a strict list of approved topics that the official MRA movement adheres to. And maybe circumcision is not on that list.
If so, please inform us.
Yours hotly. ;)
Dick :gay-rainbow:

[cunt]

It'd be pretty serious stuff then. Are you sure it was never "OMG, I feel threatened by normal guys trying to pick me up?". Like if you tell them that you're not interested, and they go away, you don't phone the police? Men are still allowed to talk to women? Just checking.

[Altair]

I haven't read Novella's article, but I'm going to have to read it, because Ophelia, Aratina, Josh and Joe are really PISSED at him

https://twitter.com/OpheliaBenson/statu ... 6075233280

Aratina Cage ‏@aratina

@OpheliaBenson Ugh. I see Steve Novella is ganging up on you now, saying you were naughty, etc. etc. When will these men give it up???

Is it me or you can almost feel the spit coming out of her mouth when she says "these men"?

Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina Seems there's some hair trigger "You're calling me a thoroughly ontologically repugnant thing!"
Detalles
3h Official SpokesGay Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina . . that gets in the way of people understanding that the ACTION, rgdless of your heart of hearts,
Detalles
3h Official SpokesGay Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina . .is what matters. Damn it, this isn't for Twitter. Should write essay.

And Josh makes the startling discovery that people tend to get mad when they're insulted and called sexist, misogynist and whatnot without good reason. Who would have thought?

2h Ophelia Benson Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina Only, there was no fucking mistake. I didn't have to add a stipulation that a sexist comment does not mean the...

Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina ...commenter is a sexist. When writing for FI I don't assume that the readers don't know how to read.

And this part sounds extremely close to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing the christians like to use. A good question would be at what point does someone become a sexist? Not with one comment, maybe two, or three?

[nippletwister]

I'm glad that PUA guy got arrested.

Why?

Instead of acting like a regular human being, that little pecker thought that inter-human interaction might have some kind of konami cheat-code. He is a fucking idiot, and I like hearing about bad things happening to idiots.

He may be a fucking idiot, but thankfully in most western nations being an idiot still isn't a crime. Stick your moralising prudery up your ass cunt.

Looks like it's enough to get arrested. Lets all gather in a circle and baww our eyes out for this little prick.

I'm with you here, Cunt. I'm glad he got arrested. Also, I think anytime a woman treats a wealthy or good-looking man as a status symbol, instead of treating him as an equally respected partner, she should be arrested as well! Arbitrary and pointless rules about values in relationships for EVERYONE, YAY!!!!!!!

If you couldn't tell, I actually think you're being an idiot shitbag.

[cunt]

Thats nice nippletwister. I don't know who you are and I don't give a fuck.

[Dick Strawkins]

Is it for example, the implication that at some level people have involuntary triggers that at heart make us no different from other animals?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

I have to agree on the first point and the second. Question is borked though, does the PUA say that he touched someone without consent. Or does he contend that he's the innocent, injured party?

Watching the video, it appears that the PUA was part of a team that filmed him using a hidden camera as he approached women to try his pick-up lines.
The police arrested them because they suspected something dodgy (he mentioned that they suspected they were filming upskirt videos of passing women.) When the police interviewed them and realized it wasn't anything like this, they were released.
In other words it is a non-story.
The police made a mistake and when they realized the guy was released.
He wasn't arrested for being a PUA.

[Apples]

I haven't read Novella's article, but I'm going to have to read it, because Ophelia, Aratina, Josh and Joe are really PISSED at him

https://twitter.com/OpheliaBenson/statu ... 6075233280

Aratina Cage ‏@aratina

@OpheliaBenson Ugh. I see Steve Novella is ganging up on you now, saying you were naughty, etc. etc. When will these men give it up???

Is it me or you can almost feel the spit coming out of her mouth when she says "these men"?

Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina Seems there's some hair trigger "You're calling me a thoroughly ontologically repugnant thing!"
Detalles
3h Official SpokesGay Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina . . that gets in the way of people understanding that the ACTION, rgdless of your heart of hearts,
Detalles
3h Official SpokesGay Official SpokesGay ‏@SpokesGay

@OpheliaBenson @ImprobableJoe @aratina . .is what matters. Damn it, this isn't for Twitter. Should write essay.

And Josh makes the startling discovery that people tend to get mad when they're insulted and called sexist, misogynist and whatnot without good reason. Who would have thought?

2h Ophelia Benson Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina Only, there was no fucking mistake. I didn't have to add a stipulation that a sexist comment does not mean the...

Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina ...commenter is a sexist. When writing for FI I don't assume that the readers don't know how to read.

And this part sounds extremely close to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing the christians like to use. A good question would be at what point does someone become a sexist? Not with one comment, maybe two, or three?

Is there an article? I was guessing this was about Novella's back-and-forth with Ophelia over at the Harriet Hall thread:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... r-so-much/

[Altair]

Is there an article? I was guessing this was about Novella's back-and-forth with Ophelia over at the Harriet Hall thread:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... r-so-much/

Hmm, thanks for pointing it, Aratina's first tweet makes more sense after reading that. Off I go to read Novella's comments!

[AndrewV69]

Where I disagree is that this stuff will lead to the downfall of civilization. I think that's en route anyway, propelled by other causes, and will arrive before the mounting bill from the RadFems comes due.
When the Peezus hits the fan, all the gender politics will evaporate rather swiftly.

Not too sure about "the downfall of civilization" myself, but I certainly see the decline and fall of the current "empire".

Cue the recent warnings by a certain Chinese "nationalist" to the Aussies about where their future prospects lie, and that it would be in their own best interests to start making the move now and willingly (and by implication), than being forced to later.

*shrug*

In any event China appears to be making moves to secure their back yard such as the development of the DF-21D and their own aircraft carrier (one so far).

Time will tell as to where this will all lead to, but I doubt that it will be puppies, unicorns and rainbows.

Meanwhile, the Aussies can go ahead and emasculate their men. I am pretty sure China approves. Not to mention when China invades the Aussie men may very well view them as liberators:

[youtube]3cbMLeeV1ww[/youtube]


/TinfoilHat.ConspiracyTheory.MRAHysterics

[Brain Box]

For as smart, (and many of you are in one way), and rational as you think yourself to be, the fact you didn't realize that they treat *everyone* they see as an enemy or even in disagreement this way shows just how blind you were. The fact you were all in the same group guaranteed you fuck all nothing, and it was a grave overestimation of loyalty based solely on a loose binding to a rather in-cohesive group that allowed you to think that.

I am quite ready to go with an abnormality in the hippocampus, specifically centred around the amygdala as an explanation for this type of behaviour myself.

(note: I am not an expert in this field. You would be wise to take this opinion with a sack of salt.)

The amygdala isn't part of the hippocampus, they are separate nuclei, though both located in the medial temporal lobe.

[LMU]

Is it for example, the implication that at some level people have involuntary triggers that at heart make us no different from other animals?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

I have to agree on the first point and the second. Question is borked though, does the PUA say that he touched someone without consent. Or does he contend that he's the innocent, injured party?

Watching the video, it appears that the PUA was part of a team that filmed him using a hidden camera as he approached women to try his pick-up lines.
The police arrested them because they suspected something dodgy (he mentioned that they suspected they were filming upskirt videos of passing women.) When the police interviewed them and realized it wasn't anything like this, they were released.
In other words it is a non-story.
The police made a mistake and when they realized the guy was released.
He wasn't arrested for being a PUA.

Thanks! (Sorry for being so lazy.)

[cunt]

Is it for example, the implication that at some level people have involuntary triggers that at heart make us no different from other animals?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

I have to agree on the first point and the second. Question is borked though, does the PUA say that he touched someone without consent. Or does he contend that he's the innocent, injured party?

Watching the video, it appears that the PUA was part of a team that filmed him using a hidden camera as he approached women to try his pick-up lines.
The police arrested them because they suspected something dodgy (he mentioned that they suspected they were filming upskirt videos of passing women.) When the police interviewed them and realized it wasn't anything like this, they were released.
In other words it is a non-story.
The police made a mistake and when they realized the guy was released.
He wasn't arrested for being a PUA.

Oh for fucks sake I watched that video. No footage of the arrest.

[Michael K Gray]

The difference is that through her actions she has demonstrated herself to be unqualified to lead the CFI. She needs to go for that organization to retain any credibility as a skeptics' organization.

CFI lost what little credibility it had, many years ago.
It is far too late for this moribund incestuous de-railed gravy-train to be put back on track.

[cunt]

Thanks! (Sorry for being so lazy.)

Dumbass.

[Dick Strawkins]

Is it for example, the implication that at some level people have involuntary triggers that at heart make us no different from other animals?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

I have to agree on the first point and the second. Question is borked though, does the PUA say that he touched someone without consent. Or does he contend that he's the innocent, injured party?

Watching the video, it appears that the PUA was part of a team that filmed him using a hidden camera as he approached women to try his pick-up lines.
The police arrested them because they suspected something dodgy (he mentioned that they suspected they were filming upskirt videos of passing women.) When the police interviewed them and realized it wasn't anything like this, they were released.
In other words it is a non-story.
The police made a mistake and when they realized the guy was released.
He wasn't arrested for being a PUA.

Oh for fucks sake I watched that video. No footage of the arrest.

The guy described what happened to him and his film crew. He doesn't show a video of the actual incident.

[cunt]

Yeah, and I think he's a lying little prick.

[welch]

I finally figured out the root beneath how FTB et al claim innocence. No surprise, it's the kind of logic you'd expect from a small child:

"I ONLY PUNCHED YOU IN THE EYE, YOU KICKED ME IN THE NUTS!"

[Gumby]

BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.

Well, you already know I agree with you. This is an outgrowth of the "let's mend the rifts" sentiment among SIN bloggers, leading to the Svan "terms" and "OMG sex tapes!" posts. SDG was a coincident burp in the process (afaik it hasn't even been mentioned by anyone outside the 'Pit and is unique in its history). BB is being aggressively clueless, which is, for my purposes, one of the worst offenses you can commit at the 'Pit (aside from being persistently boring, like decius). I guess that's what killfiles are for.

Fuck mending rifts. Just stop being such oversensitive nippleheads, and things work themselves out

Here is the point that too many seem to be missing: There is no 'rift'. Never was. You can't fix what is broken by playing nice. What you have is a group of self-important bloggers who, through misplaced ego (definitely), greed (very likely), and a wildly over-inflated sense of self importance (without question!) decided that the best thing to happen to the atheist/skeptical community was themselves. The Pyt was formed by those within that community to had the gall, the utter bald faced gall, to disagree with that pathetically absurd proposition and who were pushed out, denounced and intimidated for having the (trigger warning: incoming gendered slur!) balls to disagree. That, my fellow Pytters, is the so called 'rift'.

Those self important ideologs have no interest in any way, shape or form of making nice. No matter what you or anyone else does, they will not change their ways until they have lost their power base - which is happening slowly but surely. Then, and only then, when it truly dawns on them that they were idiots that screwed themselves over (and that realization may never quite dawn on them, no matter how far they sink), will they deign to acknowledge any dialog that does not follow their designated party line. End of story.

I like to think that the Pyt is contributing to that collapse. At the very least you know you are having an impact, because they simply CAN NOT ignore the Pyt any longer. You make them nuts. It works because they cannot stand the fact that you stand up to them and publicize the hypocrites that they are, daily, in this non-stop, rude, crude, song and dance act. It is making them bonkers. Any time they spend on berating the Pyt makes you stronger and deflects them from doing more damage in other places. Also, as many are beginning to notice, the pushback is growing against FtB. Peezus is getting called out by name almost daily by a different, well known source. It may go unsaid, but don't think these very intelligent people don't know that the Pyt called the truth about FtB long before they did.

Do not expect the big name players to ever acknowledge you or join in. They may agree with what you say and do, it may even be a secret pleasure for some, but their public positions by their very nature will prevent them from acknowledging what is done here in any capacity. That is the political nature of public life, especially when you have that group of vultures hanging on every perceived misspoken word. You think Dawkins or Schermer caught some flack for their 'questionable' but minor contretemps? What in hell do think the reaction would be if they associated directly and openly with a show like this? It would be blown up into a fucking bloodbath in seconds. Get real, boys and girls.

You want to start a 'cleaner', friendlier forum. That is really OK. I support it. I would likely join it. I do see possible merit in it and it has the potential of being a real asset if done well, but don't ever think there will be a moment that everybody plays kissyface and makes up. The egos at FtB would never survive the mere thought of such a thing.

Ok. That's my soapbox rant for the month. Where's my scotch... :mrgreen:

Word.

[AndrewV69]

How much would it take for you to phone the police scented? I mean, i've approached probably hundreds of women, and a lot of the time it's gone badly. Never to the point they phoned the cops though.

Perhaps a course on PUA techniques would reduce the number of times it goes badly?

I'll ask you because Cunt is a cunt and the video too long.

Did the PUA touch someone without consent or was he just chatting up ladies?

See the response by Dick below:

Watching the video, it appears that the PUA was part of a team that filmed him using a hidden camera as he approached women to try his pick-up lines.
The police arrested them because they suspected something dodgy (he mentioned that they suspected they were filming upskirt videos of passing women.) When the police interviewed them and realized it wasn't anything like this, they were released.
In other words it is a non-story.
The police made a mistake and when they realized the guy was released.
He wasn't arrested for being a PUA.

Which destroys my assertion that he was arrested for being a PUA. However (last minute rally to deflect from my shortcomings), the Aussies in the near future, have the means to do so.

[AndrewV69]

Do I have a problem with MRAs? I give MRAs virtually no thought.

But you still have a blind spot:

So right from the outset we have a problem between Watson and what are most likely mens rights activists rather than atheists.

It is to you a perfectly reasonable and likely supposition. Is it not?

[cunt]

Sorry, but that is fucking retarded and I can't believe that anybody over the age of 25 actually falls for it.

[Gefan]

Not too sure about "the downfall of civilization" myself, but I certainly see the decline and fall of the current "empire".

Cue the recent warnings by a certain Chinese "nationalist" to the Aussies about where their future prospects lie, and that it would be in their own best interests to start making the move now and willingly (and by implication), than being forced to later.

*shrug*

In any event China appears to be making moves to secure their back yard such as the development of the DF-21D and their own aircraft carrier (one so far).

Time will tell as to where this will all lead to, but I doubt that it will be puppies, unicorns and rainbows.

Meanwhile, the Aussies can go ahead and emasculate their men. I am pretty sure China approves. Not to mention when China invades the Aussie men may very well view them as liberators:

Don't lose too much sleep about the PLA going on any foreign tours any time soon. That scenario exists mostly in the imagination of Neo-Con fanboys who treat Tom Clancy novels much the same way that Minivan Mommies treat "Fifty Shades of Grey".

[Gefan]

Police? It would have to be some sort of physical assault or at least someone physically blocking my way in attempt to force me to talk to them. However, I could see how people might want to report him as an ordinary street nuisance, like if he's constantly bugging the same women or staying in the same street/intersection approaching person after person. That could probably cause someone to call the police. Just like they would if someone kept trying to sell them used cars by approaching them on the street.

I wish he were standing at a intersection trying to pick up person after person, if only because I'd be encouraged to hope I might one day see something like that in person. If I were really lucky there'd be a nice cafe nearby where I could pull up a seat and order a glass of wine while I watched.

[Dick Strawkins]

Do I have a problem with MRAs? I give MRAs virtually no thought.

But you still have a blind spot:

So right from the outset we have a problem between Watson and what are most likely mens rights activists rather than atheists.

It is to you a perfectly reasonable and likely supposition. Is it not?

I don't think it unreasonable to consider the source of Watsons initial bout of critics after her FGM video to be anti-circumcision activists rather than atheists.
I guess our disagreement is whether you would call those who advocate against male circumcision to be mens rights activists.
Thats the way I see them. I'm not saying they are the same as the AVfM type of activists but I think you are splitting hairs if you want to exclude circumcision from the list of approved topics for actvism.

[AndrewV69]

Is there an article? I was guessing this was about Novella's back-and-forth with Ophelia over at the Harriet Hall thread:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... r-so-much/

Thanks for reminding me about the following article she linked to :

Study Debunks Myths About Gender and Math Performance
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 153123.htm

Going to read it now and see if I can read the study itself, which apparently was published on Dec. 12, 2011 in Notices of the American Mathematical Society.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I should have copyrighted this "safe space" stuff long ago.

http://www.lyricstime.com/fairyland-eld ... yrics.html

Yah, you know the drill. Self promo and al; that.

[TheMan]

Exciting news, 6 years in the making:

http://i.imgur.com/mmvTMVj.png

...and hold on to your boobs and nuts, Oooooooolon's about to light a wet firecracker:

http://i.imgur.com/twOPRjH.png

Is it correct to make the observation that I find it amazing that a University lecturer, who I would presume has spend a hell of a lot of time casting a critical analitical eye over 100's of student papers, has submitted a missive that required a wall of editor notes correcting grammar & corrections and notes to, again presuming, expand on this thought etc?...and to top it all off... a history of so many corrections needed it sent one editor "mad".... Peezus!

I hope it's not a Children's book...with the title "Happy Atheist" I'm begining to lean to that understanding. Ignorance is bliss and I should write a book too.

[masakari2012]

My comment went into moderation over at Harriet Hall's blog. I saved a screencap just incase. http://i.imgur.com/Nb4VEIc.png

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... ent-111095

These people come off to me as being snobs, who think they are socially superior to everyone else, that uses emotionalism so that they can disregard what the people they disagree with may actually intend to do on the internet.

a nice analysis. We'll see if it survives

It survived. Another one of my posts which contained links was removed. Probably because I saw that it went into moderation, and then post it again without the links to address the commenters without having to wait for approval. That's fine.

I responded back with a final comment, and left. They can say whatever they like. Now I remember why I tend not to get into long discussion on blogs these days.

[AndrewV69]

I don't think it unreasonable to consider the source of Watsons initial bout of critics after her FGM video to be anti-circumcision activists rather than atheists.
I guess our disagreement is whether you would call those who advocate against male circumcision to be mens rights activists.
Thats the way I see them. I'm not saying they are the same as the AVfM type of activists but I think you are splitting hairs if you want to exclude circumcision from the list of approved topics for actvism.

Anti MSM does not equal a MRA.

But I will note that MSM is not necessarily an "official" MRA position. It is not even on the radar for many, and some are of the firm opinion that it is not a big deal either.

Gah! OK I am going to back off before I do a Justicar on meth and submit a 6,000 word essay on the subject. And then follow up with around 30 or so 10,000 word clarifications to any possible objections to any of the points made.

You get the last word on this.

[cunt]

At least 3 years too late. I'm surprised the publishers are even bothering at this point.

[AbsurdWalls]

Is it correct to make the observation that I find it amazing that a University lecturer, who I would presume has spend a hell of a lot of time casting a critical analitical eye over 100's of student papers, has submitted a missive that required a wall of editor notes correcting grammar & corrections and notes to, again presuming, expand on this thought etc?...and to top it all off... a history of so many corrections needed it sent one editor "mad".... Peezus!

I hope it's not a Children's book...with the title "Happy Atheist" I'm begining to lean to that understanding. Ignorance is bliss and I should write a book too.

If he's a professor and he's marking hundreds of student papers he's not delegating very well.

People make grammatical errors and need their work editing no matter how advanced in their academic career they are. The objective is not to make student-quality work.

[Za-zen]

Oolon's alter ego

[youtube]T9_jgKSpA5E[/youtube]

[Scented Nectar]

It'd be pretty serious stuff then. Are you sure it was never "OMG, I feel threatened by normal guys trying to pick me up?". Like if you tell them that you're not interested, and they go away, you don't phone the police? Men are still allowed to talk to women? Just checking.

I've told you what I think, but I'm not going to speak for any other women out there. The pick up guy did say they let him go with no charges, so who the fuck knows what really happened.

[Gumby]

Is it correct to make the observation that I find it amazing that a University lecturer, who I would presume has spend a hell of a lot of time casting a critical analitical eye over 100's of student papers, has submitted a missive that required a wall of editor notes correcting grammar & corrections and notes to, again presuming, expand on this thought etc?...and to top it all off... a history of so many corrections needed it sent one editor "mad".... Peezus!

I hope it's not a Children's book...with the title "Happy Atheist" I'm begining to lean to that understanding. Ignorance is bliss and I should write a book too.

No doubt it's not a children's book, but it is still very wrongly titled. PZ Myers may be an atheist, but he is definitely not a happy one. He's too full of anger, dishonesty and pettiness to be happy.

[Pitchguest]

At least 3 years too late. I'm surprised the publishers are even bothering at this point.

Well, it seems PZ apparently wrote like he was on crack or something, considering when the editors returned the book to him to correct it was shock-full of errors, grammatical errors, syntax errors ... content errors ...

Who's willing to bet he'll delay the release for another six years?

[Apples]

The purpose of these forums being the discussion of social justice issues within the context of atheism, we use the social justice definitions of words like "racism", "sexism", and other -isms. You may have seen the terms "Institutional Racism", Systemic Racism, Institutional/Systemic Sexism, etc. The short version is -isms = prejudice + power. In social justice terms, marginalized groups cannot be guilty of -isms because they don't have the power to institutionalize their prejudices.

Bolding mine. I finally poked around their basket of links. The last sentence is a remarkably stupid and revealing statement to put in print, amounting to a license to be an aggressive bigot if you can claim to be "marginalized." Of course, since the poor are obviously marginalized, according to A+ dogma poor white skinheads cannot be guilty of racism. :? Since gay/black people are marginalized, gays and/or blacks can't be guilty of classism/ableism/pick-your-ism. And if atheists are marginalized, white/cis/male/straight upper-class atheists can't be guilty of sexism. Etc. I guess it's just what you'd expect, given the incredible sloppiness and superficiality of everything they've done.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 441#p33441

[free thoughtpolice]

Is it correct to make the observation that I find it amazing that a University lecturer, who I would presume has spend a hell of a lot of time casting a critical analitical eye over 100's of student papers, has submitted a missive that required a wall of editor notes correcting grammar & corrections and notes to, again presuming, expand on this thought etc?...and to top it all off... a history of so many corrections needed it sent one editor "mad".... Peezus!

I hope it's not a Children's book...with the title "Happy Atheist" I'm begining to lean to that understanding. Ignorance is bliss and I should write a book too.

No doubt it's not a children's book, but it is still very wrongly titled. PZ Myers may be an atheist, but he is definitely not a happy one. He's too full of anger, dishonesty and pettiness to be happy.

Happy Atheist is bad but not as bad as it would be if he called it "Rational Atheist".

[Scented Nectar]

Police? It would have to be some sort of physical assault or at least someone physically blocking my way in attempt to force me to talk to them. However, I could see how people might want to report him as an ordinary street nuisance, like if he's constantly bugging the same women or staying in the same street/intersection approaching person after person. That could probably cause someone to call the police. Just like they would if someone kept trying to sell them used cars by approaching them on the street.

I wish he were standing at a intersection trying to pick up person after person, if only because I'd be encouraged to hope I might one day see something like that in person. If I were really lucky there'd be a nice cafe nearby where I could pull up a seat and order a glass of wine while I watched.

If it's a cafe with some tables out on the sidewalk, you might be able to hear the conversations too. :)

[windy]

From the Thunderdome thread that was mentioned earlier:

PZ freeze peach.png

(32.7 KiB) Downloaded 253 times

Really, we're just learning that is it? Wasn't that more or less how you ran the old site? At least own up to it before using trolls as an excuse to shit on the idea of unmoderated discussion. This smug revisionist crap pisses me off.

They have not changed their behavior one fucking bit, the "problem" is that you (collectively) are now the target, not Dinesh D'shitstain.

That's part of it, sure. But I think you're doing some retconning of your own here. A few years back there weren't mass bannings of people with wrong opinions (at least none that we knew of!), over-sensitivity about language wasn't encouraged, and the siege mentality hadn't developed yet. Those bits have changed, at least. IMO, it was more of a "frog in a slowly boiling pot" process for many regulars.

[Ape+lust]

No doubt it's not a children's book, but it is still very wrongly titled. PZ Myers may be an atheist, but he is definitely not a happy one. He's too full of anger, dishonesty and pettiness to be happy.

No shit. If he's still clinging to that title, he's lying to himself.

"Readers who bought this book also enjoyed Paris Hilton's Frugal Wallflower."

[Bhurzum]

At least 3 years too late. I'm surprised the publishers are even bothering at this point.

Well, it seems PZ apparently wrote like he was on crack or something, considering when the editors returned the book to him to correct it was shock-full of errors, grammatical errors, syntax errors ... content errors ...

Who's willing to bet he'll delay the release for another six years?

If past form is anything to go by, PZ will simply block all forms of communication with the editor(s) then label them as hateful trolls.

[AbsurdWalls]

The purpose of these forums being the discussion of social justice issues within the context of atheism, we use the social justice definitions of words like "racism", "sexism", and other -isms. You may have seen the terms "Institutional Racism", Systemic Racism, Institutional/Systemic Sexism, etc. The short version is -isms = prejudice + power. In social justice terms, marginalized groups cannot be guilty of -isms because they don't have the power to institutionalize their prejudices.

Bolding mine. I finally poked around their basket of links. The last sentence is a remarkably stupid and revealing statement to put in print, amounting to a license to be an aggressive bigot if you can claim to be "marginalized." Of course, since the poor are obviously marginalized, according to A+ dogma poor white skinheads cannot be guilty of racism. :? Since gay/black people are marginalized, gays and/or blacks can't be guilty of classism/ableism/pick-your-ism. And if atheists are marginalized, white/cis/male/straight upper-class atheists can't be guilty of sexism. Etc. I guess it's just what you'd expect, given the incredible sloppiness and superficiality of everything they've done.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 441#p33441

No, that's not quite their meaning. This idea is confined to each axis of privilege. It just means that black people can't be racist, women can't be sexist, lower-class people can't be classist etc. They don't deny that incidents happen where these people discriminate against whites, men, and toffs respectively - it's just that they have redefined the word "racism" to mean that it doesn't apply to those behaviours.

Yes, it is stupid. I know.

[Walter Ego]

At least 3 years too late. I'm surprised the publishers are even bothering at this point.

It's already being offered for sale on Amazon so PZ is committed to clean up the manuscript.

The Amazon blurb:

Release date: August 13, 2013

From the author of one of the web's most popular science blogs, The Happy Atheist takes on religious fanaticism with all the gleeful disrespect it deserves. A small, fearless book that takes aim at big, stupid targets--and nails them.

For the last several years, PZ Myers, writing the blog Pharyngula, has entertained millions of readers every month with his infectious love of evolutionary science and his equally infectious disdain for creationism, biblical literalism, "intelligent design" theory, and other products of godly illogic. While PZ does not accept the common atheist argument that religion necessarily makes people do evil, violent things, he does think that, most of the time, it makes them believe in the truly ridiculous--which is exactly what he skewers in this riotously funny book. In fact, The Happy Atheist is so outrageous, it's the only book about religion anyone should take seriously.

[Ape+lust]

That's part of it, sure. But I think you're doing some retconning of your own here. A few years back there weren't mass bannings of people with wrong opinions (at least none that we knew of!), over-sensitivity about language wasn't encouraged, and the siege mentality hadn't developed yet. Those bits have changed, at least. IMO, it was more of a "frog in a slowly boiling pot" process for many regulars.

And in the war with accomodationists, he was battling atheists who hectored other atheists for Doing It Wrong. Now that he's appointed himself Hectoring Tightbritches in Chief, he's lost that rationale for his behavior.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

The purpose of these forums being the discussion of social justice issues within the context of atheism, we use the social justice definitions of words like "racism", "sexism", and other -isms. You may have seen the terms "Institutional Racism", Systemic Racism, Institutional/Systemic Sexism, etc. The short version is -isms = prejudice + power. In social justice terms, marginalized groups cannot be guilty of -isms because they don't have the power to institutionalize their prejudices.

Bolding mine. I finally poked around their basket of links. The last sentence is a remarkably stupid and revealing statement to put in print, amounting to a license to be an aggressive bigot if you can claim to be "marginalized." Of course, since the poor are obviously marginalized, according to A+ dogma poor white skinheads cannot be guilty of racism. :? Since gay/black people are marginalized, gays and/or blacks can't be guilty of classism/ableism/pick-your-ism. And if atheists are marginalized, white/cis/male/straight upper-class atheists can't be guilty of sexism. Etc. I guess it's just what you'd expect, given the incredible sloppiness and superficiality of everything they've done.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 441#p33441

No, that's not quite their meaning. This idea is confined to each axis of privilege. It just means that black people can't be racist, women can't be sexist, lower-class people can't be classist etc. They don't deny that incidents happen where these people discriminate against whites, men, and toffs respectively - it's just that they have redefined the word "racism" to mean that it doesn't apply to those behaviours.

Yes, it is stupid. I know.

Yes it is stupid and bollocks - in the UK, most racism (as I think is the same elsewhere) is actually between minorities - africans hate bangladeshis hate indians hate jamaicans hate pakistanis, and so on

[Lurkion]

Hi guys.

I posted this before but it didn't embed in the thread right - an Ophie dramatic reading.

[Ape+lust]

It's already being offered for sale on Amazon so PZ is committed to clean up the manuscript.

He is soooo gonna get shellacked when Amazon opens for review trolls. The GRAVE INJUSTICE of it all will probably send him into manic overdrive, like Laden turned up to 11.

[ERV]

At least 3 years too late. I'm surprised the publishers are even bothering at this point.

It's already being offered for sale on Amazon so PZ is committed to clean up the manuscript.

The Amazon blurb:

Release date: August 13, 2013

From the author of one of the web's most popular science blogs, The Happy Atheist takes on religious fanaticism with all the gleeful disrespect it deserves. A small, fearless book that takes aim at big, stupid targets--and nails them.

For the last several years, PZ Myers, writing the blog Pharyngula, has entertained millions of readers every month with his infectious love of evolutionary science and his equally infectious disdain for creationism, biblical literalism, "intelligent design" theory, and other products of godly illogic. While PZ does not accept the common atheist argument that religion necessarily makes people do evil, violent things, he does think that, most of the time, it makes them believe in the truly ridiculous--which is exactly what he skewers in this riotously funny book. In fact, The Happy Atheist is so outrageous, it's the only book about religion anyone should take seriously.

176 pages.

...

I just bought the 9 year old a 240 page book.

[Walter Ego]

No doubt it's not a children's book, but it is still very wrongly titled. PZ Myers may be an atheist, but he is definitely not a happy one. He's too full of anger, dishonesty and pettiness to be happy.

No shit. If he's still clinging to that title, he's lying to himself.

"Readers who bought this book also enjoyed Paris Hilton's Frugal Wallflower."

Forgot this bit from Amazon.

Product Details
Hardcover: 176 pages

Hmmm... that's not very long for a "serious" hardcover, is it? From the description, though it sounds like the tubby one may be going for humor in which case the book is probably about a hundred pages too long.

[Ape+lust]

Forgot this bit from Amazon.

Product Details
Hardcover: 176 pages

Hmmm... that's not very long for a "serious" hardcover, is it? From the description, though it sounds like the tubby one may be going for humor in which case the book is probably about a hundred pages too long.

30 pages a year, 2 1/2 pages a month. He really had to s-t-r-a-a-a-i-n to squeeze that one out.

[Apples]

Hi guys.

I posted this before but it didn't embed in the thread right - an Ophie dramatic reading.

Nice work - psychedelic.

[Ape+lust]

Hi guys.

I posted this before but it didn't embed in the thread right - an Ophie dramatic reading.

Goddamn, that's brilliant :o

[Steersman]

I haven't read Novella's article, but I'm going to have to read it, because Ophelia, Aratina, Josh and Joe are really PISSED at him

https://twitter.com/OpheliaBenson/statu ... 6075233280
<snip>

And Josh makes the startling discovery that people tend to get mad when they're insulted and called sexist, misogynist and whatnot without good reason. Who would have thought?

Amazing that so many over there in FfTB-land are equally clueless.

2h Ophelia Benson Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina Only, there was no fucking mistake. I didn't have to add a stipulation that a sexist comment does not mean the...

Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

@ImprobableJoe @aratina ...commenter is a sexist. When writing for FI I don't assume that the readers don't know how to read.

And this part sounds extremely close to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing the christians like to use. A good question would be at what point does someone become a sexist? Not with one comment, maybe two, or three?

Quite right. One might also ask how many free murders one can commit before one is accused of being a murderer ….

Parallel logic, indeed ….