Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

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Bhurzum
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13561

Post by Bhurzum »

Scented Nectar wrote:I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
/nudge

Lunch (& "crack" coffee)

You owe me.

Just a wee reminder :D

Guest

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13562

Post by Guest »

Scented Nectar wrote:
welch wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Aneris wrote:
Apples wrote:Mr. Schach's integrity and observational powers are a hallmark of his posting history at Pharyngula:

http://i.imgur.com/UbkVBYu.jpg
He's right. Team A consists of 100% Named Persons. Team B only of 50%*. Check Mate, Team B!

Let's move the stuff over to Jacks dedicated thread.
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=80728#p80728

*That Team B has twice as much Named Person shall not count.
Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!
Wait, really? Where?
I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13563

Post by Scented Nectar »

Bhurzum wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
/nudge

Lunch (& "crack" coffee)

You owe me.

Just a wee reminder :D
Ok, but don't be slipping any colloidal silver in my mug. I don't want to turn blue like you and Diana. I swear Diana Boston looks blue as a corpse these days. :P

For those who don't know what the fuck we're talking about, it starts with this video making fun of the notoriously insane youtube feminist, Diana Boston (aka SaelPalani). Few people can last very far into it. I couldn't even last a minute. Poor Bhurzum lost his lunch because of this video.
TRIGGER WARNING!!!!! (not cuz I'm nice, it's cuz I can't afford more lunches!)
[youtube]gOwTBnxsCQ4[/youtube]

Pepsi
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13564

Post by Pepsi »

What do they mean, the guts? Why do they want people to use names so bad? The only cowardice they could accuse people of is wanting to be secure so that people don't invade in their home lives. People should not be goaded into bringing their life online if they don't want to. If people feel like they're risking something by giving those people information they aren't entitled to, especially with some of their habit of tryinf to fuck with people's jobs and home lives, they need to respect that and back off. What happened to personal boundaries? I see some of them squawk about boundaries lots. Trying to dress up wanting privacy from malicious people as "having guts" is pretty dishonest. It would be too much to have people addressing me by name with some of the hostile things they say. It would feel 10 times more personal and it would be multiple times more hostile.

No one give in and listen to those folks. They'll make you regret it. Imagine it. "You're a piece of shit, Nameyour Friendsuseallthetime Andyourmommygaveyou.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13565

Post by Apples »

Cerberus: Fucking Oppression, Man wrote:That’s because they want one true “movement” that they can use as a personal badge. Something that’s safely a “He Man Women Hater’s Club” and thus not tainted by non-white, non-normative, and/or female participants. Where, in fact, said minority members know better than to even try to belong if they aren’t spending the entire time praising the “real movement” for what intellectual dexterity it takes to not believe in things that those group members were not personally raised in.

Because, by having been at one time a white male dominated group, they invested in it as a source of alternative masculinity in the toxic masculinity sense. What I mean is that by the rules of toxic masculinity, this group was feeling pressure and reduction and so invested in atheism a sort of alternative way of separating themselves from femininity and arguing that belonging to this male-dominated group made them way smarter than everyone and totally manly because everyone knows that only men are smart and so on.

In other words, they’re having a tantrum because they were using atheism to try and go to toxic masculinity “hey, we might not be jocks, but we’re still willing to kick the women and hang out in homosocial-only spaces! So we still count as manly enough to be considered ‘men’, right?” and now there are all these chicks running around wanting to talk about girly shit and making them feel dumb and very similar to the people they were lording over because on certain issues they are almost exactly the same.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-594483

This. This. A thousand times - what?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13566

Post by Pepsi »

I have seen many of them talk about excluding people from the movement, not wanting them to speak at places, etc. Some of the goaders may not be trying to use "Give us your personal information!" to help with that but I bet some are. DO NOT give them your full name if you haven't already done so. So many complain about wanting pitters to just get out of their light. Some have proven they're willing to intimidate others or harm their jobs. They are serious.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13567

Post by Scented Nectar »

Guest wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
welch wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!
Wait, really? Where?
I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it
I wish I had a link. I just remember at the time wondering how she came up with 'Zvan', like maybe she wanted something that would often be last alphabetically or something.

Submariner
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13568

Post by Submariner »

Guest wrote:
http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it

Is it just me or the the link borked?

Bhurzum
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13569

Post by Bhurzum »

Scented Nectar wrote: I just remember at the time wondering how she came up with 'Zvan', like maybe she wanted something that would often be last alphabetically or something.
A typo that stuck?

[youtube]NLPgz9K4D20[/youtube]

Note: Paz is...*drool*

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13570

Post by Scented Nectar »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Guest wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
welch wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!
Wait, really? Where?
I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it
I wish I had a link. I just remember at the time wondering how she came up with 'Zvan', like maybe she wanted something that would often be last alphabetically or something.
I found this, where she excuses 'durable' pseudonyms (meaning herself?), from http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... k-puppets/
As DrugMonkey has pointed out in prior discussions of online identity, the situation is different when dealing with a durable pseudonym. Over time, that pseudonym accretes history the same way any other name would online. It develops a reputation that follows it around. This reputation doesn’t generally attach itself to the person behind the pseudonym, but there are good, bad and indifferent reasons why that might be desirable. The pseudonymous themselves are generally approximately as mixed a bag of humanity as the rest of us, and we deal with them individually based on the reputation they built by their actions.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13571

Post by Wonderist »

Left this on EllenBeth Wachs' blog, in support. While in moderation (which is an understandable default on her part), I *much* more optimistic it'll make it through than the ones on Zvan's: http://mycatsaremygods.com/2013/03/31/y ... comment-75
Thaumas Themelios
April 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm

Wonderful post, EllenBeth. Thank you so much for your courage in standing your ground and speaking out! It is so important, but it can be very difficult to do, and I don’t blame the many people who’ve taken similar abuse and given up in disgust over it. That said, *someone* needs to stand up to this stuff. I’m glad you’ve chosen to be one of them. :-)

Thanks also for taking the time and effort (and FSM knows it takes a lot of time and effort) to organize your thoughts and the quotes and screenshots to fully support your position. That, too, is extremely important. Evidence-based reasoning will *eventually* get us out of this mess, but it’s going to take time and persistence to work its stuff. Eventually, as evidence continues to mount, the tide will turn. It’s been happening to creationism, it’s been happening to religion in general, and it’s going to happen to these rumour-generated myths of evil spectres haunting the atheist/skeptic community. Skeptics just need to get back to being skeptics again, and *self*-skepticism is a crucial part of that. That old gem:

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~ Richard Feynman

Tfoot

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13572

Post by Tfoot »

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13573

Post by justinvacula »

Thanks for what you do, Thunderf00t. Keep up the good work.

Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13574

Post by Apples »

Tfoot wrote:Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).
Indeed. And with CoE's departure, FTB now has six zombie-blogs on its front page, including C. Rad. Plus a few more that have a new post at a rate of less than one per month. :dance:

Bhurzum
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13575

Post by Bhurzum »

Apples wrote:Indeed. And with CoE's departure, FTB now has six zombie-blogs on its front page, including C. Rad. Plus a few more that have a new post at a rate of less than one per month. :dance:
If they synchronize, can we call it their "bad week" or something like that?

(I'm gonna get it in the neck for this!)

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13576

Post by Wonderist »

John Greg wrote:As I previously posted, I have entered a comment on Zvan's blog, and one (yet to pass moderation) on Nugent's blog, responding to the initial statments from both Jack and Zvan. However, I have not yet passed moderation on Nugent's blog ... time? locale? ... I don't know.

Anyway, LeftSidePositive (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222421), who is without doubt one of the most virulent, angry, and offensive of the FfTB sociopathic ideologues, has, of course, iviscerated me, to the core, while ignoring almost all of my actual points.

Typical, I guess.

I have had, er, ah, arguments and confrontations with LeftSideDeficient before, and it ... no sorry, sh/i/t is not an individual who is overly gifted with reading comprehension.

Last note, I think that Jack's statement is really poorly written, and I truly wish he/she had asked someone with professional writing experience to proof it. His statement is overflowing with sentence structure errors, grammatical errors, logic errors, and so on. And such flaws really weaken the argument. Pah. Very, very disappointing.
Assuming you're serious about Jack's statement, feedback would be greatly appreciated. I was also involved in hammering out some of the grammar/wording/etc. We had our reasons for phrasing things in particular ways, I assure you, some of them intentionally obfuscated in order to keep things relatively short (an important consideration which takes a *lot* of work to accomplish, and could always be improved; eventually you have to compromise and go with 'good enough' rather than 'perfect'), as well as to stimulate further discussion.

But I am always open to critique, positive or negative, especially on this project. If you have specific passages or quotes that really bugged you, please comment with your thoughts. I'd be very interested, and would try to figure out better ways to say things, for sure. I believe Jack and Renee would probably concur (NB: Tim Skellett has recently withdrawn from the formal process, and will be doing his own thing I imagine; he's expressed that he does not feel he can fully support the position that was posted; I'll leave it to him to say more from his POV; I get the feeling it's not a personal thing, but an issue of how the 'structured dialogue' is structured into two 'sides', and he's not fully comfortable being put in that position/grouping).

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13577

Post by debaser71 »

Scented Nectar wrote: I found this, where she excuses 'durable' pseudonyms (meaning herself?), from http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... k-puppets/
As DrugMonkey has pointed out in prior discussions of online identity, the situation is different when dealing with a durable pseudonym. Over time, that pseudonym accretes history the same way any other name would online. It develops a reputation that follows it around. This reputation doesn’t generally attach itself to the person behind the pseudonym, but there are good, bad and indifferent reasons why that might be desirable. The pseudonymous themselves are generally approximately as mixed a bag of humanity as the rest of us, and we deal with them individually based on the reputation they built by their actions.
Hmmm I actually agree with her on durable "nyms". Although I call them "tags" but whatever. I was wondering what's the oldest post of mine I could find on the internet and this is what I found.

http://lvlworld.com/comments/id:34

comment 22, may 16, 2000

(so very fascinating! I know... /eyeroll) Of course, my tag is older than that, I just can't find any (not that I tried hard).

But the Pharygnula non-horde still tried to suggest that I was a drive by troll or something, that I could be dismissed because of my "nym"...that's right before they switched it up to "childmolester71". Hey, A-rat-in-a-cage, go fork a repo or something!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13578

Post by John Brown »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it
I wish I had a link. I just remember at the time wondering how she came up with 'Zvan', like maybe she wanted something that would often be last alphabetically or something.
I found this, where she excuses 'durable' pseudonyms (meaning herself?), from http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... k-puppets/
As DrugMonkey has pointed out in prior discussions of online identity, the situation is different when dealing with a durable pseudonym. Over time, that pseudonym accretes history the same way any other name would online. It develops a reputation that follows it around. This reputation doesn’t generally attach itself to the person behind the pseudonym, but there are good, bad and indifferent reasons why that might be desirable. The pseudonymous themselves are generally approximately as mixed a bag of humanity as the rest of us, and we deal with them individually based on the reputation they built by their actions.
[/quote]

Well, unless her husband is also using a pseudonym, I'll remain skeptical about the issue...

http://photography.zvan.net/

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13579

Post by Wonderist »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Jack wrote:
Submariner wrote:@ Jack:
I didn't see the cast for the FfTB "side" of the discussion posted anywhere, but a commenter from there mentioned "all named people" on their side.
Have they released the participants nyms/names yet?
Not to my knowledge. It would be interesting to know but if people wish to stay discreet I'm OK with that.
Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?
The Slimepit was (in part) evolved to avoid such indirect speech against circumlocuitous "Jane Austen" style bullshit.
"Oh, Mr. Darcy! How uncharitable, kind sir."
versus
"You are deliberately lying, you deceptive cunt."
I go for the latter, every time.
(But perhaps that is merely a reflection of my extreme age, experience, and lack of tolerance for hypocrisy?)

Perhaps 'tis for the best that I did not volunteer for Nugent's Fools Errand.
It is not my style at all.
"Have at it" is my motto.

Being polite did not work with cultish theists, (after a 4,500+ year trial), and I doubt that it will work with the FTB cultists whose behaviour I oppose.
I know, eh? :roll: It's so booorrring. So tedious. It kind of sucks the wind right out of the debate. When can we get the excitement and drama back?! This shit is seriously a drama killer!!!!1

... oh, wait. :think:

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13580

Post by Bhurzum »

Just dumping this here...

[youtube]0EDoEzOymkk[/youtube]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13581

Post by Wonderist »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Jack wrote:...Arguments win or fail on their merits.
Perhaps I am not being blunt enough here.
Nugent's garden party, serving accommodationist scones, after a wait of several months, and the sweet tea of "common goals", can be dispensed with in seconds: It is transparently clear as to what are our common agreements.
This has been hashed and re-hashed for years.
Hmm, I think you think we think this is about convincing Zvan or anyone on 'their side' of anything. We don't. At least, I don't. I'm not writing *for* Zvan (only), though I might write *to* Zvan. I'm writing for the hundreds of other people (perhaps thousands with this Nugent thing, who knows?) who might possibly read my stuff ever, now or in the future. Those are the people I'm focused on reaching. Zvan may eventually get our message, she might not. That's up to her, and I have no control over that. I only have control over what I say, and to the extent that it will ever influence any reasonable person to read it, I have a tiny bit of control over that (adjusting probabilities up or down, depending on what I say and how I say it). It's not accommodationism, it's mere fact. Some ways of expressing the same idea work better than others, depending on the context and the audience. Pure pragmatism.
What is at issue, and this is VITAL: is where 'we' disagree! (And why)

For fux-sake, re-iterating these already common principles gets no-one anywhere save, perhaps, for a warm wave of smugness in the mind of Nugent.
Who gives a tinker's cuss about rabbiting on and on in genteel language about the common ground?
WTF is the point?
What's to resolve?
Hmmm, I think you think that large numbers of self-identified skeptics don't need the occasional reminder of core skeptical and ethical principles. The whole EG and A+ debacle should have woken you up from that delusion long ago. Isn't is *transparently obvious* to you that a lot of usually-reasonable people have got sucked into a thoroughly *unreasonable* dogma? Don't you think it would be a good thing if we tried to highlight that problem and vaccinate those 'skeptics' out there who are still reachable, but prone to buying into it? I do.
Get on with where the 2 "sides" disagree:
1) Hypocrisy
2) Hypocrisy
3) Hypocrisy
Did you miss the several weeks we spent doing that at Nugent's blog threads? You're about 3 or 4 weeks behind the strategy. We've got the hypocrisy well and truly documented. We've collected the evidence. Now we need to present the case to the jury of the wider, mainstream, secular/rationalist/atheist/skeptical communit(ies). That requires laying some groundwork on principles. That's why Nugent's point 1 is about laying this groundwork of common agreement, as a baseline from which to highlight the areas of disagreement. I suppose you missed that memo: http://atheistskepticdialogue.com/agenda/

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13582

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Tigzy wrote:
ERV wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.
:clap:

I don't have much sympathy for EllenBeth 'Don't be fooled by his game when he rapes your daughter' Wachs either. The biter got bit, that's all, and she's butthurt over getting what she's dished out to others. Too bad.
Yup. My sympathy for EBW is as close to zero as it's possible to get.
It's all well and good that she's finally realised what a bunch of nasty, back-stabbing cunts her supposed allies are but she has known about their behaviour for ages, went along with it and indulged in the lying and misrepresentation of dissenters herself numerous times and it didn't bother her one fucking jot until she's the one on the receiving end.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13583

Post by Wonderist »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Jack wrote:...We were bending over backwards to avoid words...
Says it all, really.
Context, cunt.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13584

Post by Tony Parsehole »

codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13585

Post by debaser71 »

And they constantly femsplain.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13586

Post by Wonderist »

Scented Nectar wrote:Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!
I'm guessing googlability. Either so she can track mentions, or so, like in Soviet Russia: Mention tracks you!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13587

Post by Jan Steen »

Apples wrote:
Cerberus: Fucking Oppression, Man wrote:That’s because they want one true “movement” that they can use as a personal badge. Something that’s safely a “He Man Women Hater’s Club” and thus not tainted by non-white, non-normative, and/or female participants. Where, in fact, said minority members know better than to even try to belong if they aren’t spending the entire time praising the “real movement” for what intellectual dexterity it takes to not believe in things that those group members were not personally raised in.

Because, by having been at one time a white male dominated group, they invested in it as a source of alternative masculinity in the toxic masculinity sense. What I mean is that by the rules of toxic masculinity, this group was feeling pressure and reduction and so invested in atheism a sort of alternative way of separating themselves from femininity and arguing that belonging to this male-dominated group made them way smarter than everyone and totally manly because everyone knows that only men are smart and so on.

In other words, they’re having a tantrum because they were using atheism to try and go to toxic masculinity “hey, we might not be jocks, but we’re still willing to kick the women and hang out in homosocial-only spaces! So we still count as manly enough to be considered ‘men’, right?” and now there are all these chicks running around wanting to talk about girly shit and making them feel dumb and very similar to the people they were lording over because on certain issues they are almost exactly the same.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-594483

This. This. A thousand times - what?
Cerberus must own a brain so completely filled with radfem clichés that there is no room left for connections to reality. :D

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13588

Post by Submariner »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

If you notice my replay to Zvan at Nugent's, I deliberately refused to use her included phrase "cis-gendered". In future posts there, I will avoid any of the newspeak words from their side.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13589

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Tfoot wrote:Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).
*clicks link*
*sees graph*
*picks up nearby trumpet*
*plays "wa was waaaaaaaa......*

Submariner
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13590

Post by Submariner »

*reply

danmed edit button.

Wonderist
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13591

Post by Wonderist »

BarnOwl wrote:
Jack wrote: Hey I'm British so I can be deeply insulting without someone even realising it :)

It's 'Team' as in Zvan and a mod for their side. No others have been announced. I originally assume 5 from there but if I were to guess that hasn't happened. That does not mean people are not assisting her or helping in some way. That is the same for us. I see no issue with that and it's a good sign if that is happening. It is silly for people to say we want as many as possible then demand arbitrary limits on that. It's being bloody minded for the sake of it. I don't care if they have an army of thousands helping out. Arguments win or fail on their merits.

Zvan makes some good points and I see that as a good thing. I agree with most of her statement and it is in line with ours (although you wouldn't think that from some comments over there) She's grasped this is about common ground and resisted the urge we all have to go on the attack from the start. She gets my respect for that.
I'm only seeing a couple of comments on either Strand over at the dedicated site for this discussion. Am I doing something RONG?
No, nothing rong. Just slower than typical moderation due to the fact that it is collaborative moderation, not unilateral. And 8 time zones.
Also, arguments should win or fail on their merits, but we've seen arbitrary dismissal of arguments by FtBers many times. FLOOSH!
Hence the need for a 'structured dialogue' to prevent that kind of tactic. Hence the need for a step 1, where we reach agreement that such tactics are not valid, before the dialogue proper begins.

Jan Steen
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13592

Post by Jan Steen »

Tfoot wrote:Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).
But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

Wonderist
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13593

Post by Wonderist »

BarnOwl wrote:Also, the chartjunk on Zvan's post reminds me of the clipart that is used in Powerpoints by administrative touchy-feely types in academia. Might be common practice in the business world, but makes acolytes of Edward Tufte (like myself) cringe.
I sure wouldn't want one of these puzzle-piece thingies as a support net when things go wrong. Much prefer a more solid foundation to rest upon:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... uxmart.jpg

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13594

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Submariner wrote:*reply

danmed edit button.
I knew, I knew.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13595

Post by CommanderTuvok »

We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.

Submariner
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13596

Post by Submariner »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Submariner wrote:*reply

danmed edit button.
I knew, I knew.
Read quoted post CAREFULLY.

codelette
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Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13597

Post by codelette »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?
SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

Tony Parsehole
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Posts: 6658
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:16 am
Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13598

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Jan Steen wrote:
But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?
I honestly think he'd kill himself. Hopefully in an ironic fashion like cutting his throat with a broken record.

JackSkeptic
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Location: UK

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13599

Post by JackSkeptic »

Jan Steen wrote:
Tfoot wrote:Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).
But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?
He can *Floosh** himself.

justinvacula
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Posts: 1832
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:48 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13600

Post by justinvacula »

Freethought Blogs to go offline, Rebecca Watson admits hoax

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... mits-hoax/

Tony Parsehole
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Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13601

Post by Tony Parsehole »

codelette wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?
SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".
You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

Angry_Drunk
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Posts: 458
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Contact:

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13602

Post by Angry_Drunk »

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

Wonderist
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13603

Post by Wonderist »

Corylus wrote: Most mediators seem to act in stages, Michael. The number of stages do vary, but here is a good document that shows them clearly.
Very helpful comment, Corylus, thanks. Didn't want to quote your whole comment, but it's here in case anyone wants to reference it: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=266&start=13425#p80963
Conversely, Jack's statement is deeply practical and based on the assumption that what works is generally helpful for all parties. There is a view that egalitarian systems are actually good for all, and that common goals can be uncovered via evidence based investigation, as opposed to the short-term balancing of individual concerns. There is also a laudable willingness to put some work in displayed throughout. There may be an underestimation of the, generally irrational, nature of the populace in there however.
Interesting first couple of assumptions you mention. I suppose that's true, I pretty much assume that as well: Pragmatism, equality, reason/science.

For myself, I definitely don't underestimate general irrationality. I assume it, and even assume it of myself. It's human nature. Limited cognition and all that; brain evolution, inherent human biases, etc. But, in our statement, I did suggest certain changes to make it more in line with the principle of charity and assuming 'good faith', which I think is also an important and *useful* (pragmatism) tool for sustaining mutually beneficial dialogue.
So here we have (roughly) an INTJ talking to (roughly) an ENFP

Them letters are nearly all different: agreement cannot be assumed.

Michael N, if you are reading, you may send me a consulting fee in the post.
I'm definitely INTP, primarily. Sometimes a tad INTJ, but not sustained. Tested myself several different times with different tests, and each time, same result, INTP.

codelette
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Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13604

Post by codelette »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?
SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".
You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".
Neurodiverse.

Wonderist
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Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:19 pm
Location: The Pale Blue Dot
Contact:

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13605

Post by Wonderist »

Apples wrote:
cunt wrote:
Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?
Nope.
Yeah, this whole thing is turning out to be as exciting as a slap-fight between snails with chronic fatigue syndrome.
Exxxcellent...
http://i.imgur.com/NareU.jpg

justinvacula
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:48 pm
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13606

Post by justinvacula »

Richard Carrier's Atheism Plus speech has been uploaded to Youtube. I wonder, was the conference policy violated with this one? Lol. Anyway...I am listening now. This is such a great gift.

[youtube]au2i3xxgv7U[/youtube]

Tony Parsehole
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Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13607

Post by Tony Parsehole »

codelette wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?
SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".
You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".
Neurodiverse.
Rape-apologist (sounds like somebody who says "sorry" after jumping out of a bush and sticking his dick in you).

ReneeHendricks
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13608

Post by ReneeHendricks »

Reading through the stuff regarding Nugent's "Dialogue". It's hard to describe. Speaking for myself, I don't plan on relenting when it comes to pointing out stupidity, ignorance, blatant misandry, and overt hypocrisy. However, in the past few weeks I've found some of the crap lobbed back and forth just unacceptable. Again, this is speaking purely for myself. I would like to establish some sort of middle ground. I have no desire to be painted as a bad person or a misogynist simply because I don't believe feminism should be force fed into our minds and mannerism. Nor do I think that the AtheismPlus agenda has anything to do with a non-existing belief in god or gods. They both have shit-all to do with atheism.

So, while I am intelligent enough to realize there will be no great "group hug" when this is all said and done, I'm also cognizant of the fact that this sort of thing will, at a minimum, publicly show that at our core we are striving for many of the same goals. I was a feminist way before I was an atheist. I was an LGBTQ supporter way before I was an atheist. These ideologies are separate.

Wonderist
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13609

Post by Wonderist »

Apples wrote:Hank Fox is decamping for Patheos:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/bluecollara ... s-oh-wait/
Assuming it's not an April Fool's double-gotcha:
[youtube]JSUIQgEVDM4[/youtube]

codelette
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13610

Post by codelette »

CommanderTuvok wrote:We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.
That reminded me of palsy pals: La Marcotte and Hugo Schweyzer. La Marcotte declares the Duke students racist rapists (even after accusation proven false); yet she sides with Hugo and John Edwards. One confessed trying to kill his gf. The other a womanizer. Funniest thing was when Hugo acted as La Marcotte's knight in shinning armor when she was accused of racism by brown feminists.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13611

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Angry_Drunk wrote:I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.
BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?

Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13612

Post by Apples »

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.


ReneeHendricks
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13613

Post by ReneeHendricks »

That all being said, I think this comment on Zvan's blog is rather funny:
I see Renee Hendricks is one of the authors of that piece…she of the great ‘there are some jobs that women just can’t do, and I know because I’m doing one of them’ argument*, and the petty and vicious ‘how dare Greta use her own money to buy shoes!’ debacle**. Doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that this is going to be productive.

But we’re not going to hear any new arguments from them regardless of who’s involved, are we? It’s just going to be the same old shit about how calling out sexism is worse than sexism itself, with added bits of their individual petty grudges.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222565

* Once again, completely misconstrued
** Her own money? Really? Just after e-begging for her cancer scare?

Angry_Drunk
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13614

Post by Angry_Drunk »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Angry_Drunk wrote:I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.
BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?
I barely consider people "people"

Fuck the whole lot of ya'.

Steersman
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13615

Post by Steersman »

Jack wrote: <snip>
Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:
The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'
A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.
Last edited by Lsuoma on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removing confidential addresses

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13616

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Apples wrote:Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

*sigh*

JackSkeptic
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13617

Post by JackSkeptic »

Steersman wrote:
Jack wrote: <snip>
Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:
The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'
A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.
Sure. I'll let Skeptickle know.
Last edited by Lsuoma on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removing confidential addresses

codelette
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13618

Post by codelette »

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

ERV
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13619

Post by ERV »

codelette wrote:Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...
Last week was bemoaning the fact 'things were tight' and she and her Cabbage Patch Doll husband couldnt afford to eat out every meal anymore. And they 'dont cook', so BAAAAAAAAAW.

But literally like two tweets earlier she was suggesting her friends get laser hair removal treatments because it worked GREAT for her (costs thousands of dollars).

She is so gross.

JackSkeptic
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#13620

Post by JackSkeptic »

Apples wrote:Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

Locked