Periodic Table of Swearing

[Guest]

I have been following the Tfoot vs. FtB email blowout. It appears that Michael Payton has submitted his apology for not liking Ftb. It's a sad day for the skeptic community when the powers of groupthink can criminalize an opinion.

[EveryMan]

But if you have a link to that thread you are referring to or other related evidence justifying your contention then I would appreciate the information and would certainly take a look at it.

I managed to find it.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=1667&hilit=monopod#p1667

And congrats to you and sascha for goring one of my sacred cows. Namely, that a presumption of innocence is an entitlement provided per U.S. law. The accused doesn't have to "prove" anything. He is and was innocent until proven otherwise (which didn't happen).

That said, I know the guy by reputation and he is considered a bit of a weirdo. If I had to guess I would suggest he has some autism spectrum disorder (or something similar) and is therefore 'mind blind'. I.e., he really doesn't understand that he's being annoying/irritating, which his comments on skepticalabyss bear out. So there is some irony in all the 'victims' picking on a guy that is basically developmentally disabled.

[Steersman]

... obvs forget a lot of shit.

I can’t understand at all why that would be. I mean there were only “251,805,821 words posted today on WordPress.com” ... And that is probably just one of literally dozens if not hundreds of blog hosting platforms ...

It’s a wonder we don’t all have melt-downs following it all ... I’m reminded of the parable about the Sorcerer’s Apprentice ....

[Mr Danksworth]

I have been following the Tfoot vs. FtB email blowout. It appears that Michael Payton has submitted his apology for not liking Ftb. It's a sad day for the skeptic community when the powers of groupthink can criminalize an opinion.

Ooops, that post was me. Sorry.

[sacha]

... it's easy to begin to form a "old timer" camaraderie, and have little patience to get someone new, up to date with the thread.

I can sympathize as I’ve been in similar situations. I sort of look on it as a “teaching moment”, although not everyone is cut out for that role.

Well "teaching" is not my thing, which is why I don't train dogs, don't have children, and I only fuck men with a lot of experience...

I will mention, as many already know. I've been to many sceptic "gatherings, and I've been to a few TAMs, I've never been treated better than I have in the sceptic community. I have seen how the skepchicks behave, firsthand, and I have had a problem with Watson's misandry since her first SGU podcast. I know she is using the "misogyny in the sceptic community" as a lie to further her agenda.

I also may be the only female MRA here. I have always had issues with women and their misandry (not all, but fuck, I've known a tonne of sexist women, and more women than I can count, who would lie in a heartbeat to accuse a man of anywhere from harassment to rape).
I can't explain in one comment how strongly I feel about this issue. I probably need more proof than most men when it comes to accusations like these. This is a big part of why I feel comfortable here. Abbie, Nectar and I were the original "Gender Traitors", and PZ and company has tried to silence all of us. PZ and Watson tried to get me banned from a sceptic event a couple of months ago, along with trying to convince the organiser I was a "threat" to Watson's safety (just because I am a regular commenter here), they did worse to franc, and what they did to Abbie is horrific, and she is far less deserving, and a far nicer person than franc or I...


I'm tired (yeah, franc, I know). I may not find the link until tomorrow (if I can find it at all), I have not forgotten.

[AndrewV69]

I don't quite understand how they reconcile the idea that women are on the Slime-side...

Oh wait, I do. Because girls on the Slime side are "chill girls" who just want to act like they're one of the guys for some dick.

My bad, just answered my own question.

that's why I'm here. Just for the cock(s)

OMFG! I just got this fucking laptop! It is five days old. Now the fucking thing has coffee all over the fucking screen and keyboard!

coffee is trouble, Andrew. You should know that.

You would think I would know that by now. I managed to clean it up before it dried and I got sticky keys (so far so good).

[EveryMan]

Another user pretending to be Everyman, or Everyman trying to get past sacha's block? Either way, not cool.

That was me having the last word in a funny way. Lighten up, Francis. I bet franc thought it was funny.

What makes you presume stuff about me? You have to earn the privilege to make fun of Sacha - until then, it's just mindless personal one-upmanship or dick waving with no actual purpose.

Right, just as you have earned the privilege to mock the baboons ... how exactly? Do you have a PhD in Cunt Kicking from the University of Queensland? Would have loved to smell your shoe after the dissertation.

Anyways, I've had enough butthurt for the time being so I'll take my leave before I get blocked/doxxed or my head explodes from Irony.

Steersman, pleasure meeting you and thanks for the reference to the "problem of induction"; it's been enlightening.

Cheers to tachikoma and everyone else; PM me if ya need anything.

[AndrewV69]

Actually I read and followed the contretemps in some detail, mostly over at The Skeptical Abyss. My impression from all of that was that all that could be said was that there was no evidence of him having taken any up-skirt photos. Apparently no one confronted him and demanded to see the contents of his camera or any logs of photos having been taken, sent and deleted. That to me would be the only credible evidence capable of actually proving him innocent or guilty of that crime.

However, it seems that even John C. Welch concedes or argues that he had been guilty of some serious harassment. All of which I summarized on a related thread:

Something that should be noted. Whatever anyone anyone may think of Lee.

Lee apparently did go to a lot of trouble (multiple places) to try and hold back the lynch mob that was forming up and clarify exactly what happened.

I am saying this because one lesson I learned, is that it is important to acknowledge when someone does the right thing. It tends to reinforce that sort of behaviour among other things.

[sacha]

I don't quite understand how they reconcile the idea that women are on the Slime-side...

Oh wait, I do. Because girls on the Slime side are "chill girls" who just want to act like they're one of the guys for some dick.

My bad, just answered my own question.

that's why I'm here. Just for the cock(s)

OMFG! I just got this fucking laptop! It is five days old. Now the fucking thing has coffee all over the fucking screen and keyboard!

coffee is trouble, Andrew. You should know that.

You would think I would know that by now. I managed to clean it up before it dried and I got sticky keys (so far so good).

your "sticky keys" are not from coffee, my dear..

[Steersman]

... it's easy to begin to form a "old timer" camaraderie, and have little patience to get someone new, up to date with the thread.

I can sympathize as I’ve been in similar situations. I sort of look on it as a “teaching moment”, although not everyone is cut out for that role.

I can't explain in one comment how strongly I feel about this issue. I probably need more proof than most men when it comes to accusations like these.

I can sympathize as it is an issue or concept that I’ve been following for literally decades, maybe not in as much depth as many but enough to know that there’s more than a little bit that’s rotten in Denmark. I tried to point that out to Sally Strange way back when I was banned over there but she tends to think, has actually stated, that the concept of dogma doesn’t apply to feminism.

But at that time I made a reference to a portion of a book – Generation of Vipers (Philip Wylie, who coined the term “momism”) – that another woman, Veronica Abbass had provided me on another blog (sorry, website) that you might be interested in. Sorry, but the book doesn’t paint a particularly flattering picture of women in general. Although he targeted probably every other segment of the population and profession in it, with the possible exception of Indian Chiefs, in reaching the conclusion that, as he put it, “We have cancer of the soul”.

This is a big part of why I feel comfortable here. Abbie, Nectar and I were the original "Gender Traitors", and PZ and company has tried to silence all of us. PZ and Watson tried to get me banned from a sceptic event a couple of months ago, along with trying to convince the organiser I was a "threat" to Watson's safety (just because I am a regular commenter here), they did worse to franc, and what they did to Abbie is horrific, and she is far less deserving, and a far nicer person than franc or I...

They are looking less and less credible all the time. Kind of unfortunate too, as I think that at least PZ and Ophelia periodically make or have made some good points. Just that their commitment to dogma, or having painted themselves into some tight corners, seems to be seriously messing with their minds.

[sacha]

But at that time I made a reference to a portion of a book – Generation of Vipers (Philip Wylie, who coined the term “momism”) – that another woman, Veronica Abbass had provided me on another blog (sorry, website) that you might be interested in. Sorry, but the book doesn’t paint a particularly flattering picture of women in general. Although he targeted probably every other segment of the population and profession in it, with the possible exception of Indian Chiefs, in reaching the conclusion that, as he put it, “We have cancer of the soul”.

Thanks, I'll read it.

[sacha]

Something that should be noted. Whatever anyone anyone may think of Lee.

Lee apparently did go to a lot of trouble (multiple places) to try and hold back the lynch mob that was forming up and clarify exactly what happened.

I am saying this because one lesson I learned, is that it is important to acknowledge when someone does the right thing. It tends to reinforce that sort of behaviour among other things.

I agree...

[tachikoma]

That linked to an even earlier blog article, Atheists with vaginas which is still up.

1-- God, this shit started a LONG time ago, didnt it? Even their shit-stirring with DJ Grothe.
2-- I stand by the stuff I previously wrote, and am glad to see current/former Pit Crew there also making sense.

Not that surprising. The people there were against CPP/Zuska/Isis because of the exact same bad behaviour that current pit people are against FTBers for.

Isis’s habit of using feminism to lash out at people who disagree with her, calling them misogynistic apologists for patriarchy without even bothering to notice that they are ethnic minority women who have a reputation for their feminist activism. This is a well-documented fact. She has done it more than once. She is not promoting feminism or righting injustices. She is using the labels of “misogynist” and “white male privilege” as clubs to attack people. I call that pseudo-feminism.

Underlining mine.

If the Zuskas and PhysioProfs restricted their attacks to actual instances of discriminatory actions or attitudes, I don’t think many of us would object – I wouldn’t. My issue with Zuska isn’t that she’s assertive or uncompromising, it’s that she’s spiteful and intellectually dishonest – she pretends that people who call her on being spiteful are only objecting to her assertiveness, and she habitually viciously lays into anyone who has the misfortune to say something that vaguely reminds her of someone else that she’s angry at (often for good reason) as if the inadvertent poster actually were that person and to the best of my knowledge has never, ever, ever even acknowledged the mistake

Oh Azkyroth(2009), please come and knock some sense into Azkyroth(2012), who seems to be supporting Watson and Myers in doing the same thing...

It's rather amusing to see people back in 2009 refer to SC, Svan, Benson, and Watson as examples of reasonable female atheists who aren't crazy feminists.

[astrokid.nj]

Damn.. Here's some real sexism against women. The baboons can gain some credibility if they focus on these at least.

An off-duty firewoman was left feeling like a "potential pedophile" after a national airline stopped her sitting next to two small boys on a flight - because women are barred from sitting next to unaccompanied minors.. two small boys aged between eight and 10.
She described how she moved from her window seat to the aisle to allow the boys to look out of the window, but was then pulled up by an air hostess, asking her to trade places with a male passenger.

Read more.

[Steersman]

...
Steersman, pleasure meeting you and thanks for the reference to the "problem of induction"; it's been enlightening.

Likewise.

And glad you enjoyed that article as I think that idea lies at the core of the dispute about the “different ways of knowing” – science versus religion: both of them, and most of the humanities I would guess, start from premises and hypotheses of one sort or another – basically inductive, intuitive, thinking and logic – but only science actually tries to find out which ones are actually true, hypotheses being a dime-a-dozen, a nickel-a-shipload; not all of them are or can be true. Religion is largely just “Philosophick Romances” – a term that P.B. Medawar discusses in his Art of the Soluble – highly recommended.


Thanks also for that link to sacha’s article, although, not to be critical and from what I can see from a brief skim of it, there wasn’t any reference to a primary source. Certainly a plausible possibility but no smoking gun yet ....

[sacha]

Thanks also for that link to sacha’s article, although, not to be critical and from what I can see from a brief skim of it, there wasn’t any reference to a primary source. Certainly a plausible possibility but no smoking gun yet ....

I was not referring to my post, when I said I would try to find the link to what I read, but you probably already know that. okay, I really am going to sleep now...

[sacha]

Damn.. Here's some real sexism against women. The baboons can gain some credibility if they focus on these at least.

An off-duty firewoman was left feeling like a "potential pedophile" after a national airline stopped her sitting next to two small boys on a flight - because women are barred from sitting next to unaccompanied minors.. two small boys aged between eight and 10.
She described how she moved from her window seat to the aisle to allow the boys to look out of the window, but was then pulled up by an air hostess, asking her to trade places with a male passenger.

Read more.

read the twitter comments on that page...
Right! Women never sexually abuse children... for fuck's sake.

[Steersman]

...
It's rather amusing to see people back in 2009 refer to SC, Svan, Benson, and Watson as examples of reasonable female atheists who aren't crazy feminists.

More proof of that old adage: power corrupts ....Which can probably be updated to make some reference to privilege ....

God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural… fluids.

Maybe an occupational hazard of being human …. Reminds me of a story from an old book of mine on, I think, Zen:

It described a fellow who went to school and became a White Knight and subsequently went out and rescued various damsels, of both sexes, from the depredations of various Black Knights. But he was too successful and there weren't many Black Knights about so his income from said rescuing took a precipitous nose-dive. So to supplement his income he started, at first, raiding various gardens and then, when bad turned to worse, proceeding to waylaying various travellers. But then one day he was suprised to see, in the clearing ahead of him, some White Knight challenging him and calling him to account ...

[Steersman]

Thanks also for that link to sacha’s article, although, not to be critical and from what I can see from a brief skim of it, there wasn’t any reference to a primary source. Certainly a plausible possibility but no smoking gun yet ....

.. when I said I would try to find the link to what I read, but you probably already know that.

I thought it likely – thanks for looking; but just acknowledging what was provided in passing.

okay, I really am going to sleep now...

gn

[justinvacula]

Maybe Ophelia will put this one on her blog. The horrors!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morea ... s_crop.jpg

[justinvacula]

Is the above what 'Surly Amy' considers to be ass-grabbing...or maybe worse?
Time for conference policies against ass-grabbing!

[rayshul]

First of all we need some solid harrassment policies that prevent the crime of talking-while-male.

[Badger3k]

Is the above what 'Surly Amy' considers to be ass-grabbing...or maybe worse?
Time for conference policies against ass-grabbing!

They need to start boycotting sporting events. I saw more ass-grabbing during the olympics than I have in my entire porn-watching career. And that's a lot!

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Also, I just got back from Missouri, and though I am not a 'drinker' (since we are talking about alcohol), I brought home a TON of local peach wine. ITS SO YUMMY! Missouri peach wine is as yummy as FTBers are fucking stupid, thats how yummy this stuff is.

YUMMY!!!

Coffee, laptop, same problem as Andrew.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

[franc]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

Plus you risk triggering another justicar meth binge.

Phil, the "block" doesn't block. It just collapses the comments behind a single-click twisty. I just use it to hide mabus or the mabus-oid. I've successfully ignored the other rote posters this far.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

Plus you risk triggering another justicar meth binge.

Phil, the "block" doesn't block. It just collapses the comments behind a single-click twisty. I just use it to hide mabus or the mabus-oid. I've successfully ignored the other rote posters this far.

Oh, okay. I'm still not super good at this whole "internet" thingy. I thought Lsuoma had blocked Everyman (and this I would object to).

My bad.

[franc]

Phil, the "block" doesn't block. It just collapses the comments behind a single-click twisty. I just use it to hide mabus or the mabus-oid. I've successfully ignored the other rote posters this far.

Oh, okay. I'm still not super good at this whole "internet" thingy. I thought Lsuoma had blocked Everyman (and this I would object to).

My bad.

I posted this before. It's not really that hard and it is not the same as banning or blocking -

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Franc, I understood that stuff (although I'm not gonna use it, I like to read every posts), but I just misread what Lsuoma was saying.

Again, my bad. I hate sundays...

[James Onen]

An oldie but goodie. This one put a smile on my face.

[James Onen]

If you define yourself as an Atheist you really aren’t saying very much about yourself at all. Just that you don’t accept the claims of Theists regarding the existence of any deities. So we have words like Sceptic or Critical thinker which have much more meaning attached to them. Sceptics are supposed to assess the evidence for a claim and apply reason and critical thinking to determine the validity of that claim.

This is the type of person I strive to be about everything in my life. I want to be able to look at any and all issues and apply the same critical thinking to them that I apply to theism. This however, is far easier said than done.

So one might be forgiven for thinking that members of the Sceptic Community and all it’s various celebrities also apply this critical thinking to other parts of their lives, not just the claims of the supernatural. I assumed that the people whose blogs I read and whose speeches I listened to weren’t just sceptical to the supernatural claims of religion but also to any claims regarding any issue. I soon realised that I was sadly mistaken and that there were many people claiming to be sceptics who have very fundamentalist beliefs about various subjects.

The first time I came across this was in October 2007 while reading the blog of one of these celebrities, PZ Myers. In a post entitled FFRF recap: heroes of the revolution, Hitchens screws the pooch, and the unbearable stodginess of atheists one of the most relevant paragraphs reads as follows;

Basically, what Hitchens was proposing is genocide. Or, at least, wholesale execution of the population of the Moslem world until they are sufficiently cowed and frightened and depleted that they are unable to resist us in any way, ever again.

Myers made the claim that Christopher Hitchens had proposed genocide against Muslims. I read this while sipping on a cup of tea and almost dropped it with astonishment. Christopher Hitchens proposing genocide ? The political commentator and writer Christopher Hitchens?

I literally could not believe what I was reading. Anyone even half familiar with Hitchens’ work would raise an eyebrow at such an assertion and they’d be right to do so. Hitchens no more advocated genocide against Muslims than he advocated joining the Church of Scientology. But PZ Myers wrote it and PZ Myers is a sceptic so he wouldn’t state something so foul without evidence behind it, would he ? Well as it turns out yes he would.

Where did Myers get this idea from ? Well it was from a Q&A session by Hitchens at the Freedom From Religion Foundation on October 12, 2007. You can see a video of this session on youtube here. If the video is too long you can skip to the 3:30 mark. A questioner asks, “How exactly does bombing and killing Muslims lessen their number or limit their fervor ?” to which Hitchens made a reply concerning the killing of terrorists such as Osama Bin Laden. He went on to talk about killing jihadists and specifically stated how the jihadists themselves were the ones targeting and killing Muslims.

Now I really feel that it is quite patronising to have to point out that the questioner may well have said Muslims but that he most likely meant Muslim terrorists while Hitchens clearly presumed the questioner had meant Muslim terrorists and that’s what he was talking about.

To suggest Christopher Hitchens was an advocate of genocide against Muslims or any other group is extraordinarily dishonest by Myers. Hitchens was in favour of killing terrorists, Muslim or otherwise, who want to attack western civilisation, not Muslims in general. To say otherwise goes against everything Hitchens stood for, everything he wrote, and everything he said.

If it wasn’t bad enough that Myers wrote this, several others parroted his posting, most notably perhaps Russell Glasser on the Atheist Experience, a popular television show based in Austin, Texas. In Episode #740 of the show shortly after Hitchens had passed away Russell starts the show by talking about Hitchens and his recent passing. He went on to say, at the 8 minute mark in the video, that Hitchens said “every muslim killed is a muslim we don’t have to fight as pc Myers reported”.

So why did Myers and others do this ? It’s clearly not a mistake as these people cannot but be familiar with Hitchens and his views. It took me quite a while to realise it but the answer was quite simple. Myers et al didn’t like Hitchens’ politics.

This was very difficult for me to understand at first because apart from not being a particularly political person, I’m also not an American nor have I ever visited or lived there and because of this I didn’t understand just how fundamentalist some Americans can be over politics.

Of course I was vaguely familiar with American politics from various TV shows, articles, and opinion pieces in various media. I had this shadow of an image in my understanding that the Right was Republican, conservative Christian, rich, and they didn’t like minorities, homosexuals or women’s rights while the Left was Democrat, liberal Christian or irreligious, middle class, and supportive of minorities, homosexuals, and women. I have since done quite a lot of reading on politics in the US and I believe I am pretty well informed on the subject now.

I think it might be quite difficult to try to explain to an American reader just how different politics are in Europe from the US, and it’s not really relevant for this posting, but for one simple example what Americans call the Left would be considered right-wing on the political spectrum in most European countries. It’s also worth mentioning that politics in most of Europe is much less partisan and governments are regularly formed with coalitions of political parties.

From this point of view, American politics seems extremely militant, divisive, and many supporters of each side of the political spectrum seem just as fundamentalist in their politics as the most zealous Jihadist or conservative Christian is about their religion. I’ve had discussions with some American friends regarding politics where they have become quite offended at the mere suggestion that their side (Left or Right) isn’t one hundred percent correct and the other side isn’t one hundred percent wrong.

To many on the Left, George Bush was pure evil and to the Right, Obama is the anti-Christ. There’s no grey area. There’s no middle ground. There’s no place for rational discussion. It’s simply a black and white issue. No evidence or thinking required. If you dissent from the party line then you are wrong.

The conclusion I garnered from this is that just because someone may be sceptical about one subject, such as the supernatural, it doesn’t show that they are sceptical regarding anything else. Many members of the Sceptic Community preach their views on subjects such as politics, and most recently gender issues, as fervently as any religious adherent would preach about their religious beliefs.

Right now in the Sceptic Community there is something of a civil war ongoing from an unfortunate incident where Richard Dawkins made a very ill thought-out comment against a woman complaining about unwanted sexual advances at a conference in Dublin. This issue is far too big and frustrating for me to go into and I’m pretty sure most readers (if I have any) will be familiar with it regardless. A summary of the incident can be found here or information can easily be found by Googling ‘elevatorgate’. Members of the Sceptic Community have largely moved into three separate camps. One group which claims women are getting harassed sexually at Sceptic Conferences and are the victims of online hate mail. Another group claims that this isn’t really an issue, are requesting evidence to back up the first groups claims, and that the first group are making unrealistic demands on policy changes. While the last group simply think the first two groups are been utterly ridiculous and irrational.

If the protagonists, such as PZ Myers and Phil Mason for example, of this issue applied the same sceptical and reasonable thinking to this issue and all issues in their lives that they applied to the supernatural than none of us would even have heard of it. As it stands, it is impossible for anyone to even question any of the positions without been met with emotionally charged vitriol from the adherents of that position.

This is not Scepticism.

http://musinlon.wordpress.com/2012/08/1 ... community/

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

James, stop DDOSing! :p

And whoever coined the nick "Boratina" for Cristina, not very cool. Attack the arguments, not the accent because she wasn't born in your fucking country.

DAMN!!! Crancky, I may have anger issues to deal with (I put it down to health, or not enough booze).

[Trophy]

My impression of most FTB's: Assholes of average intellect with egos the size of the moon.

Seriously fuck them. I don't need a goddamned movement to tell me that god doesn't exist or that homeopathy is bullshit. And for all their supposed "awesomeness" FTB has never produced or will never ever produce anything even close to what already written down by the likes of Christopher Hitchens. Has anyone on FTB has ever come close to produce something like Hitchen's essay "Topics of Cancer"?

[franc]

My impression of most FTB's: Assholes of average intellect with egos the size of the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

Yes, to them mediocrity is the upper limit for personal achievement. All comes back to Nietzsche and ressentiment dunnit?

[Scented Nectar]

"Parallel logic"

Skip ahead to the 20 second point for the song I custom made for the Benson.

[SteveW68]

http://whois.domaintools.com/freethoughtblogs.com

"Ed" neglected to register with privacy enabled - Lists his address, real name and phone number - hosted by bluehost.com

Might be where he registered it. It's actually hosted here -

http://www.whoishostingthis.com/freethoughtblogs.com

Cloudflare. It's mentioned above. Friendly towards people that have "accountability" issues.

Ah - That *may* have been the change that was made on 9th / 10th August. Not going to pay Domaintools just to check histories. when I originally checked the nameservers were listed as Bluehost ones - now showing as Cloudflare nameservers. Either that or something completely different and I need to get my glasses checked.

[Gumby]

I don't quite understand how they reconcile the idea that women are on the Slime-side...

Oh wait, I do. Because girls on the Slime side are "chill girls" who just want to act like they're one of the guys for some dick.

My bad, just answered my own question.

that's why I'm here. Just for the cock(s)

OMFG! I just got this fucking laptop! It is five days old. Now the fucking thing has coffee all over the fucking screen and keyboard!

coffee is trouble, Andrew. You should know that.

You would think I would know that by now. I managed to clean it up before it dried and I got sticky keys (so far so good).

About a month ago I knocked an entire mug full of coffee onto my Gateway notebook's keyboard. I literally had to turn the thing upside down and shake it a bit to get all the coffee to pour out of the keyboard. Amazingly, after it dried out, it was fine except for some keys being a bit sticky. That stickiness eventually worked itself out as I used the keyboard. I can't believe the notebook survived and didn't get its electronics fried. I was very relieved, but pissed off at myself no end for being so careless.

[Gumby]

http://whois.domaintools.com/freethoughtblogs.com

"Ed" neglected to register with privacy enabled - Lists his address, real name and phone number - hosted by bluehost.com

Might be where he registered it. It's actually hosted here -

http://www.whoishostingthis.com/freethoughtblogs.com

Cloudflare. It's mentioned above. Friendly towards people that have "accountability" issues.

Ah - That *may* have been the change that was made on 9th / 10th August. Not going to pay Domaintools just to check histories. when I originally checked the nameservers were listed as Bluehost ones - now showing as Cloudflare nameservers. Either that or something completely different and I need to get my glasses checked.

When FTB was originally created they used Bluehost, but the servers couldn't handle the traffic (according to a blog post of PZ's). And indeed, I saw that when FTB first went live it was almost impossible to load a page. A real mess. So they soon switched to another host, apparently Cloudflare.

[Dilurk]

From the http://synapses.co.za/unstoppable-tide-trolls/ that was posted, is this comment.

Iamcuriousblue August 12, 2012 at 6:10 am | Permalink | Reply
The problem with FTB, or a significant portion of it, is that it basically took the culture of the “feminist blogosphere” (Jezebel, Pandagon, I Blame the Patriarchy, etc.) and grafted it on to the atheist community with disastrous results. So not only have they imported in many of the problems that that particular subculture hasn’t really dealt with (notably a “callout” culture rife with bullying, self-righteousness, exaggerated claims of victimization, dogmatism, etc.), but also imported in a whole kind of hyper-sensitive discourse around gender into another subculture (the atheist/secular one) that hasn’t really dealt with these issues, nor had any introduction one way or the other to the approaches internet feminists take to those issues. It’s ended up pretty much polarizing the secular community, perhaps in ways that ultimately would have come up anyway, but often in ways that could have been avoided if both sides were willing to be a bit less dogmatic and entrenched in their positions and actually talked things out.

I started out with *mild* criticisms of the problematic language around “sexualized imagery” found in some of the proposed anti-harassment policies, as well as much of the kneejerk kind of anti-libertarianism at FTB, and have found myself pretty quickly demonized as some horrible anti-feminist and enemy of women’s participation in the secular community. What might have been small differences have been turned into chasms. Sad, really.

I've been saying this like forever, one of my earliest e-mails to franc (Jan 4 2012) mentioned the callout culture problem We do not need this grafted onto the a/s community at all. Sadly, I don't think there is a thing any of us can do at this point except eat more popcorn and enjoy the show.

[Guest]

Thanks for the repost James.

I remember reading that piece by Myers at the time and noticing Myers misrepresentation of Hitchens views. I wrote Myers off as a pseudo skeptic with a political barrow to push, and didn't really pay any more attention to him until the whole elevator gate thing took off. Really he has always been a completely dishonest demagogue, it's only lately that this has started to be noticed by the wider skeptic 'community'.

[Dilurk]

http://whois.domaintools.com/freethoughtblogs.com

"Ed" neglected to register with privacy enabled - Lists his address, real name and phone number - hosted by bluehost.com

Might be where he registered it. It's actually hosted here -

http://www.whoishostingthis.com/freethoughtblogs.com

Cloudflare. It's mentioned above. Friendly towards people that have "accountability" issues.

Ah - That *may* have been the change that was made on 9th / 10th August. Not going to pay Domaintools just to check histories. when I originally checked the nameservers were listed as Bluehost ones - now showing as Cloudflare nameservers. Either that or something completely different and I need to get my glasses checked.

If you really care, I do recall them (PZ that is) talking about their initial problems of overloading their original provider. You could garner enough of the history from doing some reading of earlier blog posts.

[Dilurk]

http://kazez.blogspot.ca/2012/08/why-philosophy-helps.html

Oh gosh, Jean has hit the mark this time. I see Notung has read it too.

... After hours, months, years of reading painfully difficult texts, you develop the habit of working hard on understanding what others are saying. The pay off, for members of the "community of reason," is a willingness to work hard to "get" another's meaning, rather than rushing immediately into combat.

and

...
One of the things I like most about teaching philosophy is that in a philosophy class people with hugely different viewpoints are expected to sit in a room together and discuss matters politely and reasonably. In my animal rights class, vegans talk to hunters--without anyone going berserk. In my course on the meaning of life, religious students talk about life with atheists--all in a mode of mutual respect. In a contemporary moral problems class, if you're skilled, you can get pro-life and pro-choice students to talk to each other calmly, and even see eye-to-eye on some issues. This is great preparation for being part of an inclusive "community of reason," one in which nobody's sent into exile just for the "crime" of accommodationism, thinking one way or another about sexual harassment policies, etc.

[SteveW68]

If you really care, I do recall them (PZ that is) talking about their initial problems of overloading their original provider. You could garner enough of the history from doing some reading of earlier blog posts.

I was merely responding to scented Nectar who had asked who FfTB were hosted with earlier.

[bhoytony]

The power of words.
The reference to Rebecca is just a coincidence, but it made me smirk.

[Lsuoma]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

I block his posts for ME, nobody else. No censorship or banning, just don't want to read the shit.

[franc]

Next chapter -

https://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com ... less-crap/

[real horrorshow]

Maybe Ophelia will put this one on her blog. The horrors!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morea ... s_crop.jpg

Interesting caption to that picture:

This engraving is from Voltaire's Candide: it depicts the scene where Candide and Cacambo see two monkeys apparently attacking two nude women. Candide kills the monkeys, then comes to believe the monkeys and women were actually lovers. The image may have been accompanied by the caption, "The two wanderers heard a few little cries". The picture is inaccurate because those are apes, not monkeys.

Facially, I thought they looked like baboons, but that's just me.
This gives me an excuse to inflict one of my favourite Joe Cartoon cartoons, from way back:

(The youtube linking thing doesn't seem to like URLs to specific points in a video, so you'll have to put up with 30 seconds of advert.0

[Skeeve]

http://lonelyelevator.wordpress.com/

[Tigzy]

Next chapter -

https://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com ... less-crap/

Well that's mighty curious. Course, if FTB retain intellectual property rights to anything posted by their bloggers, then they can whatever they like with the revenue from Tf00t's blog. If not, and the rights remain with him, then there should be no debate as whether he gets his share or not (or, as Tf00t suggests, donate it to the cause he outlined in his non-FTB blog).

Still, sheds more light on why FTB retained the blog - follow the money, and all that. Must be pretty galling to find that Tf00t's blog, though inert, was still raking in more than many of those still active on the site Wonder which comes first to Ed and PZ - social justice or the loot?

Curiously, a Google for Greg Laden's X Blog on FTB still shows it being hosted by FTB - but it redirects to his non-FTB X-blog. Guess Laden's stuff was just not raking in enough to remain viable, I guess.

[Dilurk]

Next chapter -

https://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com ... less-crap/

Well that's mighty curious. Course, if FTB retain intellectual property rights to anything posted by their bloggers, then they can whatever they like with the revenue from Tf00t's blog. If not, and the rights remain with him, then there should be no debate as whether he gets his share or not (or, as Tf00t suggests, donate it to the cause he outlined in his non-FTB blog).

Still, sheds more light on why FTB retained the blog - follow the money, and all that. Must be pretty galling to find that Tf00t's blog, though inert, was still raking in more than many of those still active on the site Wonder which comes first to Ed and PZ - social justice or the loot?

Curiously, a Google for Greg Laden's X Blog on FTB still shows it being hosted by FTB - but it redirects to his non-FTB X-blog. Guess Laden's stuff was just not raking in enough to remain viable, I guess.

Assuming it is owned by Tf00t, Tf00t could file a DMCA take down no?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

I block his posts for ME, nobody else. No censorship or banning, just don't want to read the shit.

Yeah, my feeble thick skull (with Franc's help) finally got it.

Fucking sunday!

[sacha]

I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.

Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

Plus you risk triggering another justicar meth binge.

Phil, the "block" doesn't block. It just collapses the comments behind a single-click twisty. I just use it to hide mabus or the mabus-oid. I've successfully ignored the other rote posters this far.

Oh, okay. I'm still not super good at this whole "internet" thingy. I thought Lsuoma had blocked Everyman (and this I would object to).

My bad.

I would have objected to that as well. blocked from one's view, unless expanded = foe

[Tigzy]

Ah, this is interesting. At the bottom of Tf00t's inert blog on FTB, we find this:

Copyright © Thunderf00t -

I found similar with various individual bloggers on FTB:

on Pharylgula:

Copyright © Pharyngula - Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal

on Ed's:

Copyright © Dispatches from the Culture Wars - Thoughts from the interface of science, religion, law and culture

on Cristina's:

Copyright © Cristina Rad - The voices in my head tell me I'm perfectly sane.

And so on and so forth.

So it certainly appears that the contents of each individual blogger remains their property; in which case, Ed was on very shaky ground indeed in suggesting that he might not give Tf00t his share of the loot. That fact that he was dismissed, but the blog remained to still notch up hits on FTB - and therefore contribute to FTBs overall ad revenue - means that Tf00t was entitled to that cash, given that he appears to retain copyright on his FTB blog posts. Unless, of course, the rights reverted to FTB after Tf00t was dismissed: but there's no way of knowing that (retaining the copyright notice on Tf00t's blog could have been an oversight) without looking at the TOCs of Tf00t's tenure at FTB.

[LMU]

Sorry I'm such a freerider, but are there any plans to save Thunderf00t's FTB threads in case they are taken down? Sorry if this was already discussed and I missed it.

[Tigzy]

Ah, PeeZus himself chips in on the question Tf00t's dosh: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/12/what-have-i-been-doing-this-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-429368

PZ Myers
12 August 2012 at 11:28 am

No. It has been made very clear on the back channel that tf00t’s money will be disbursed directly to him when the accounting is made.

I know what you’re talking about, and tf00t is once again lying by selectively pulling out bits of the email he stole. We are going to be entirely above board in all dealings with him. And yeah, he got a fair amount of traffic while he was here…by pissing off a couple of the highest-traffic blogs here. He did better than the lowest traffic blogs, but only a fraction of the high traffic sites. He shouldn’t thump his chest too hard over his cheaply acquired hits.

True, could be that Tf00t was quote-mining out-of-context (and I wouldn't put it past him, frankly) - but then again, this is PZ we're talking about here. Nevertheless, if such doubts were indeed raised about Tf00t getting the money he was entitled to, then Ed Brayton - at the very least - has no business to lecture Tf00t or anyone on ethics.

[Tigzy]

Some sweet, delicious, ironic - and so typical - lack of FTB self-awareness from this particular baboon nomark: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/10/summary-of-thunderf00tphil-masons-disgrace/comment-page-1/#comment-429440

Ace of Sevens
12 August 2012 at 1:51 pm

@434: From multiple other incidents, it is clear that [Tf00t] doesn’t understand the concept of intellectual property. He thinks fair use is basically anything he wants to do with whatever he can get his hands on. That’s probably the issue here, too.

Yes, Ace, ya pleb - I'd say it it was very probably the issue here too!

[Guest]

I think it's pretty clear that "Ed" wasn't going to pay him from the time his accounts were hidden. When Loftus left, his threads disappeared. Thunderf00t's remained and they actively discussed not paying him for them even though they knew he was getting hits.

Thunderf00t gave Natalie and Ed permission to quote any and all of his emails rather than just make allegations that he was doing nefarious things behind the scenes.

It turns out that "Ed" was a dishonest and he'd continue to be dishonest and indulge in his shunning, bullying, fraud, and manipulation if Thunderf00t hadn't blown the whistle. He appears to think he's some super smart mafioso in training.

Even while completely hidden from the main page, Thunderf00t got more hits than other FTB posters. No matter how PZ wants to spin it-- Thunderf00t was profitable for FTB-- and they wanted to continue to profit from him even after they banned him. He wasn't fired for shitty writing or behind the scenes shenanigans... he was canned because he could expose them for what they were. Others they could just ban or shun or try to destroy their reputations-- but Thunderf00t exposed their hypocrisy for all to see.

[Skeeve]

[Lsuoma]

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[sacha]

Thanks for the repost James.

I remember reading that piece by Myers at the time and noticing Myers misrepresentation of Hitchens views. I wrote Myers off as a pseudo skeptic with a political barrow to push, and didn't really pay any more attention to him until the whole elevator gate thing took off. Really he has always been a completely dishonest demagogue, it's only lately that this has started to be noticed by the wider skeptic 'community'.

That's when I stopped casually reading PZ's blog. I was never a commenter, and did not even read the comments then, but I would occasionally read a post.

You explained it extremely well. I am constantly amazed at the "liberal" and "conservative" dogma in the US and just how many suddenly had vitriol towards Hitch because of this. Even now if Hitchens is brought up in conversation, I still hear people say he lost his mental capacity when he "supported war and genocide". Hitch!

GRRRR

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Ok! That's it! I'm going for a John Williams rampage!

Well played Lsuoma! Hope you're proud of yourself.

[Guest]

I remember Ed coming into one of thunderf00ts comment threads (on his wordpress blog) and them having a back and forth about the revenues from ftb. Ed already said he pays out one month after for some reason. I can't remember whether he said that would include July or not.

I'd look it up but i've got revision to do.

[tachikoma]

...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe(sic).

lolwut

[mordacious1]

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Well, I do sometimes question any blog that allows me to post. [/sarcasm]

[Tigzy]

I think it's pretty clear that "Ed" wasn't going to pay him from the time his accounts were hidden. When Loftus left, his threads disappeared. Thunderf00t's remained and they actively discussed not paying him for them even though they knew he was getting hits.

Laden's appear to have gone as well. Makes it all the more clearer why they left Tf00t's threads there - not to show what an 'ass' he is, but because there was some sweet milkin' in them thar blog hits.

Interesting exchange between Tf00t and Ed earlier, in July:

Ed Brayton Says:
July 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm | Reply

Freethought Blogs averages more than 200,000 pageviews per day and about 27% of our readers use ad blockers. We have 5 ads on the page, but an advertiser isn’t going to take out all 5 ads, they’re going to take out one ad — thus the 150,000 impressions per day figure.

As for you getting paid, did you expect that this would happen on a daily basis? I don’t get paid by the ad networks for 30-60 days after the end of each month, so I pay revenue out to the bloggers on that schedule. June’s revenue sharing will be paid out at the end of August and you will be paid then for your share of the totals. You really should correct the clearly false implications that we have not paid you as promised; you will be paid when everyone else gets paid.

Thunderf00t Says:
July 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply

my god Ed… it’s only been posted 30 mins or so ago, and you’ve already found it and commented on it. Don’t any of you guys have day jobs?

But sure I didn’t expect you to pay me. Someone acting in good faith doesn’t go back on their word as soon as its not convenient. Why should I expect him to keep his word about paying me? Further no mention was made of the obvious loose end in any of the correspondence.

But really Ed, you can breathe easy, I’ve got no real interest in the money. It just says something about the integrity of the people you are dealing with. Give the money to charity.

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/freethoughtblogs-and-pc-lyers/

So even then, Tf00t was saying that they should give the money to charity. I'm guessing Brayton must have forgot, since there was no mention of giving Tf00t's share to charity in this latest snippet (unless, of course, Tf00t was quote-mining). Why Ed should be so cavalier on the question of Tf00t's revenue is quite beyond me - especially as PZ, in a post above here, states that Tf00t will be getting his due cash; which leads me to believe that they have to pay Tf00t, as he retains copyright on those FTB blog posts.

Or did PZ mean payments owed only until early July...?

[Skeeve]

...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe(sic).

lolwut

Was hoping someone would notice that.

The conceit is amazing.

[sacha]

"...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe..."

just wanted to highlight this again.

Wow, Abbie, you are a one-woman-show! There is no such thing as atheism or scepticism without you.

Phil, sorry to repeat the "blocking" response.

[masakari2012]

"they claim to be supporting atheism, but I ever see them show up to insult and slander Rebecca, PZ and FtB...." (blahblahblah).....

I'm sure most of us do "support atheism" (to use that person's words).... or should drop the isms and just say that we argue against religion and dogma. But this forum is mostly for arguing against FFTB and Skepchick. And here in this forum, we ARE arguing against dogma

[Guest]

I remember Ed coming into one of thunderf00ts comment threads (on his wordpress blog) and them having a back and forth about the revenues from ftb. Ed already said he pays out one month after for some reason. I can't remember whether he said that would include July or not.

I'd look it up but i've got revision to do.

He said he'd pay him through June: http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4052

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4049

Nobody mentioned that they'd be keeping his posts up-- but hidden. Others (such as Loftus) had their posts gone after they left. Maybe leaving up his blog is what allowed him the ability to log back in.

You can still click on Thunderf00t's old post at FTB and they are still making money off them.

[tachikoma]

From the http://synapses.co.za/unstoppable-tide-trolls/ that was posted, is this comment.

Iamcuriousblue August 12, 2012 at 6:10 am | Permalink | Reply
The problem with FTB, or a significant portion of it, is that it basically took the culture of the “feminist blogosphere” (Jezebel, Pandagon, I Blame the Patriarchy, etc.) and grafted it on to the atheist community with disastrous results. So not only have they imported in many of the problems that that particular subculture hasn’t really dealt with (notably a “callout” culture rife with bullying, self-righteousness, exaggerated claims of victimization, dogmatism, etc.), but also imported in a whole kind of hyper-sensitive discourse around gender into another subculture (the atheist/secular one) that hasn’t really dealt with these issues, nor had any introduction one way or the other to the approaches internet feminists take to those issues.

It's a nice comment, but it seems to put the focus on the unpreparedness of the a/s community to assimilation by online feminist culture, as if if either community was more prepared there would be less problems. No, I think the whole problem is the toxicity of feminist culture, some of it unique to the blogosphere, some of it embedded in feminist theory itself (such as the concepts of Patriarchy, false consciousness, male privilege, etc.).

[Lsuoma]

<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />

[Guest]

Soon Abbie will being invited to conferences as freethought bully repellent-- ha! It will be great... they won't have to ban offensive jewelery, worry about all the enemies PZ has made, or make apologies to people who can't be placated.

FTB does have an exaggerated sense of their importance. I'm pretty sure most people who consider themselves an active part of the skeptic/freethought community-- don't even know who they are. This brouhaha isn't even a blip on most atheist skeptic forums, podcasts, videos, meet ups, conventions, etc.

[Skeeve]

<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />

fixt

[Lsuoma]

<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />

fixt

Nah, I was actually trying to see if I could use the word replacement function to embed an image: so far I have not got it to work.

Back to the old drawing board...

[Skeeve]

I have never seen this piece of the puzzle before today:

From 2010


What happened to her? Did this type of exposure push her too far too fast?