Periodic Table of Swearing

Continuation of the post at Abbie Smith's ERV blog (http://scienceblogs.com/erv/)

FTB and the conspiracy to defraud/ Drawing a line under this

Postby franc » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:53 am  •  [Post 6046]

smilies are for reetards | reason is overrated | "Home is where the floor is." -- X | “The citizen's job is to be rude - to pierce the comfort of professional intercourse by boorish expressions of doubt” -- John Ralston Saul
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby real horrorshow » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:13 am  •  [Post 6047]

justinvacula wrote:Maybe Ophelia will put this one on her blog. The horrors!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morea ... s_crop.jpg

Interesting caption to that picture:
This engraving is from Voltaire's Candide: it depicts the scene where Candide and Cacambo see two monkeys apparently attacking two nude women. Candide kills the monkeys, then comes to believe the monkeys and women were actually lovers. The image may have been accompanied by the caption, "The two wanderers heard a few little cries". The picture is inaccurate because those are apes, not monkeys.

Facially, I thought they looked like baboons, but that's just me.
This gives me an excuse to inflict one of my favourite Joe Cartoon cartoons, from way back:

(The youtube linking thing doesn't seem to like URLs to specific points in a video, so you'll have to put up with 30 seconds of advert.0
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby DW Adams » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:28 am  •  [Post 6048]

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Re: FTB and the conspiracy to defraud/ Drawing a line under

Postby Tigzy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:25 am  •  [Post 6049]



Well that's mighty curious. Course, if FTB retain intellectual property rights to anything posted by their bloggers, then they can whatever they like with the revenue from Tf00t's blog. If not, and the rights remain with him, then there should be no debate as whether he gets his share or not (or, as Tf00t suggests, donate it to the cause he outlined in his non-FTB blog).

Still, sheds more light on why FTB retained the blog - follow the money, and all that. Must be pretty galling to find that Tf00t's blog, though inert, was still raking in more than many of those still active on the site :lol: Wonder which comes first to Ed and PZ - social justice or the loot?

Curiously, a Google for Greg Laden's X Blog on FTB still shows it being hosted by FTB - but it redirects to his non-FTB X-blog. Guess Laden's stuff was just not raking in enough to remain viable, I guess. :lol:
"It should be noted that among the more alarming tendencies of those men who participate in train-spotters' groups, one will also find a complete disinclination to discuss feminism or women's issues."

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Re: FTB and the conspiracy to defraud/ Drawing a line under

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:42 am  •  [Post 6050]

Tigzy wrote:


Well that's mighty curious. Course, if FTB retain intellectual property rights to anything posted by their bloggers, then they can whatever they like with the revenue from Tf00t's blog. If not, and the rights remain with him, then there should be no debate as whether he gets his share or not (or, as Tf00t suggests, donate it to the cause he outlined in his non-FTB blog).

Still, sheds more light on why FTB retained the blog - follow the money, and all that. Must be pretty galling to find that Tf00t's blog, though inert, was still raking in more than many of those still active on the site :lol: Wonder which comes first to Ed and PZ - social justice or the loot?

Curiously, a Google for Greg Laden's X Blog on FTB still shows it being hosted by FTB - but it redirects to his non-FTB X-blog. Guess Laden's stuff was just not raking in enough to remain viable, I guess. :lol:


Assuming it is owned by Tf00t, Tf00t could file a DMCA take down no?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:46 am  •  [Post 6051]

Lsuoma wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.


Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.

I block his posts for ME, nobody else. No censorship or banning, just don't want to read the shit.


Yeah, my feeble thick skull (with Franc's help) finally got it.

Fucking sunday!
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby sacha » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:13 pm  •  [Post 6052]

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
franc wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
I've blocked his post because they're so fucking navel-gazing.


Wait, what?!?

Sorry, but however Everyman might be tedious, annoying, navel-gazing, from Mars, I don't think you should block his posts. I feel that's way against the spirit of this place. Well, of course, you're the boss, but that's my take.


Plus you risk triggering another justicar meth binge.

Phil, the "block" doesn't block. It just collapses the comments behind a single-click twisty. I just use it to hide mabus or the mabus-oid. I've successfully ignored the other rote posters this far.


Oh, okay. I'm still not super good at this whole "internet" thingy. I thought Lsuoma had blocked Everyman (and this I would object to).

My bad.


I would have objected to that as well. blocked from one's view, unless expanded = foe
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Tigzy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:21 pm  •  [Post 6053]

Ah, this is interesting. At the bottom of Tf00t's inert blog on FTB, we find this:

Copyright © Thunderf00t -


I found similar with various individual bloggers on FTB:

on Pharylgula:
Copyright © Pharyngula - Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal


on Ed's:
Copyright © Dispatches from the Culture Wars - Thoughts from the interface of science, religion, law and culture


on Cristina's:
Copyright © Cristina Rad - The voices in my head tell me I'm perfectly sane.


And so on and so forth.

So it certainly appears that the contents of each individual blogger remains their property; in which case, Ed was on very shaky ground indeed in suggesting that he might not give Tf00t his share of the loot. That fact that he was dismissed, but the blog remained to still notch up hits on FTB - and therefore contribute to FTBs overall ad revenue - means that Tf00t was entitled to that cash, given that he appears to retain copyright on his FTB blog posts. Unless, of course, the rights reverted to FTB after Tf00t was dismissed: but there's no way of knowing that (retaining the copyright notice on Tf00t's blog could have been an oversight) without looking at the TOCs of Tf00t's tenure at FTB.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby LMU » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:48 pm  •  [Post 6054]

Sorry I'm such a freerider, but are there any plans to save Thunderf00t's FTB threads in case they are taken down? Sorry if this was already discussed and I missed it.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Tigzy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:51 pm  •  [Post 6055]

Ah, PeeZus himself chips in on the question Tf00t's dosh: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/12/what-have-i-been-doing-this-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-429368

PZ Myers
12 August 2012 at 11:28 am

No. It has been made very clear on the back channel that tf00t’s money will be disbursed directly to him when the accounting is made.

I know what you’re talking about, and tf00t is once again lying by selectively pulling out bits of the email he stole. We are going to be entirely above board in all dealings with him. And yeah, he got a fair amount of traffic while he was here…by pissing off a couple of the highest-traffic blogs here. He did better than the lowest traffic blogs, but only a fraction of the high traffic sites. He shouldn’t thump his chest too hard over his cheaply acquired hits.


True, could be that Tf00t was quote-mining out-of-context (and I wouldn't put it past him, frankly) - but then again, this is PZ we're talking about here. Nevertheless, if such doubts were indeed raised about Tf00t getting the money he was entitled to, then Ed Brayton - at the very least - has no business to lecture Tf00t or anyone on ethics.
"It should be noted that among the more alarming tendencies of those men who participate in train-spotters' groups, one will also find a complete disinclination to discuss feminism or women's issues."

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Tigzy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:59 pm  •  [Post 6056]

Some sweet, delicious, ironic - and so typical - lack of FTB self-awareness from this particular baboon nomark: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/10/summary-of-thunderf00tphil-masons-disgrace/comment-page-1/#comment-429440

Ace of Sevens
12 August 2012 at 1:51 pm

@434: From multiple other incidents, it is clear that [Tf00t] doesn’t understand the concept of intellectual property. He thinks fair use is basically anything he wants to do with whatever he can get his hands on. That’s probably the issue here, too.


Yes, Ace, ya pleb - I'd say it it was very probably the issue here too! :lol:
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:06 pm  •  [Post 6057]

I think it's pretty clear that "Ed" wasn't going to pay him from the time his accounts were hidden. When Loftus left, his threads disappeared. Thunderf00t's remained and they actively discussed not paying him for them even though they knew he was getting hits.

Thunderf00t gave Natalie and Ed permission to quote any and all of his emails rather than just make allegations that he was doing nefarious things behind the scenes.

It turns out that "Ed" was a dishonest and he'd continue to be dishonest and indulge in his shunning, bullying, fraud, and manipulation if Thunderf00t hadn't blown the whistle. He appears to think he's some super smart mafioso in training.

Even while completely hidden from the main page, Thunderf00t got more hits than other FTB posters. No matter how PZ wants to spin it-- Thunderf00t was profitable for FTB-- and they wanted to continue to profit from him even after they banned him. He wasn't fired for shitty writing or behind the scenes shenanigans... he was canned because he could expose them for what they were. Others they could just ban or shun or try to destroy their reputations-- but Thunderf00t exposed their hypocrisy for all to see.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby DW Adams » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:10 pm  •  [Post 6058]

Image
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Lsuoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:18 pm  •  [Post 6059]

Skeeve wrote:Image

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Call me old-fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby sacha » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:20 pm  •  [Post 6060]

Guest wrote:Thanks for the repost James.

I remember reading that piece by Myers at the time and noticing Myers misrepresentation of Hitchens views. I wrote Myers off as a pseudo skeptic with a political barrow to push, and didn't really pay any more attention to him until the whole elevator gate thing took off. Really he has always been a completely dishonest demagogue, it's only lately that this has started to be noticed by the wider skeptic 'community'.


That's when I stopped casually reading PZ's blog. I was never a commenter, and did not even read the comments then, but I would occasionally read a post.

You explained it extremely well. I am constantly amazed at the "liberal" and "conservative" dogma in the US and just how many suddenly had vitriol towards Hitch because of this. Even now if Hitchens is brought up in conversation, I still hear people say he lost his mental capacity when he "supported war and genocide". Hitch!

GRRRR
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:21 pm  •  [Post 6061]

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


Ok! That's it! I'm going for a John Williams rampage!

Well played Lsuoma! Hope you're proud of yourself.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:26 pm  •  [Post 6062]

I remember Ed coming into one of thunderf00ts comment threads (on his wordpress blog) and them having a back and forth about the revenues from ftb. Ed already said he pays out one month after for some reason. I can't remember whether he said that would include July or not.

I'd look it up but i've got revision to do.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:30 pm  •  [Post 6063]

...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe(sic).

lolwut
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Scum

Postby mordacious1 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:31 pm  •  [Post 6064]

Lsuoma wrote:
Skeeve wrote:Image

Abbe Smith's blog, ERV: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


Well, I do sometimes question any blog that allows me to post. [/sarcasm]
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Tigzy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 pm  •  [Post 6065]

Guest wrote:I think it's pretty clear that "Ed" wasn't going to pay him from the time his accounts were hidden. When Loftus left, his threads disappeared. Thunderf00t's remained and they actively discussed not paying him for them even though they knew he was getting hits.


Laden's appear to have gone as well. Makes it all the more clearer why they left Tf00t's threads there - not to show what an 'ass' he is, but because there was some sweet milkin' in them thar blog hits.

Interesting exchange between Tf00t and Ed earlier, in July:

Ed Brayton Says:
July 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm | Reply

Freethought Blogs averages more than 200,000 pageviews per day and about 27% of our readers use ad blockers. We have 5 ads on the page, but an advertiser isn’t going to take out all 5 ads, they’re going to take out one ad — thus the 150,000 impressions per day figure.

As for you getting paid, did you expect that this would happen on a daily basis? I don’t get paid by the ad networks for 30-60 days after the end of each month, so I pay revenue out to the bloggers on that schedule. June’s revenue sharing will be paid out at the end of August and you will be paid then for your share of the totals. You really should correct the clearly false implications that we have not paid you as promised; you will be paid when everyone else gets paid.


Thunderf00t Says:
July 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply

my god Ed… it’s only been posted 30 mins or so ago, and you’ve already found it and commented on it. Don’t any of you guys have day jobs?

But sure I didn’t expect you to pay me. Someone acting in good faith doesn’t go back on their word as soon as its not convenient. Why should I expect him to keep his word about paying me? Further no mention was made of the obvious loose end in any of the correspondence.

But really Ed, you can breathe easy, I’ve got no real interest in the money. It just says something about the integrity of the people you are dealing with. Give the money to charity.


http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/freethoughtblogs-and-pc-lyers/

So even then, Tf00t was saying that they should give the money to charity. I'm guessing Brayton must have forgot, since there was no mention of giving Tf00t's share to charity in this latest snippet (unless, of course, Tf00t was quote-mining). Why Ed should be so cavalier on the question of Tf00t's revenue is quite beyond me - especially as PZ, in a post above here, states that Tf00t will be getting his due cash; which leads me to believe that they have to pay Tf00t, as he retains copyright on those FTB blog posts.

Or did PZ mean payments owed only until early July...?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby DW Adams » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 pm  •  [Post 6066]

tachikoma wrote:
...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe(sic).

lolwut


Was hoping someone would notice that.

The conceit is amazing.
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bedrock

Postby sacha » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 pm  •  [Post 6067]

Skeeve wrote:Image


"...the FtB & Skepchicks crew are the bedrock of the movement, the conventions and conferences. If FtB and Skepchicks got dumped, the only person they really have is Abbe..."


just wanted to highlight this again.

Wow, Abbie, you are a one-woman-show! There is no such thing as atheism or scepticism without you.

Phil, sorry to repeat the "blocking" response.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby masakari2012 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:34 pm  •  [Post 6068]

"they claim to be supporting atheism, but I ever see them show up to insult and slander Rebecca, PZ and FtB...." (blahblahblah).....

I'm sure most of us do "support atheism" (to use that person's words).... or should drop the isms and just say that we argue against religion and dogma. But this forum is mostly for arguing against FFTB and Skepchick. And here in this forum, we ARE arguing against dogma :D
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:37 pm  •  [Post 6069]

Guest wrote:I remember Ed coming into one of thunderf00ts comment threads (on his wordpress blog) and them having a back and forth about the revenues from ftb. Ed already said he pays out one month after for some reason. I can't remember whether he said that would include July or not.

I'd look it up but i've got revision to do.


He said he'd pay him through June: http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4052

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4049

Nobody mentioned that they'd be keeping his posts up-- but hidden. Others (such as Loftus) had their posts gone after they left. Maybe leaving up his blog is what allowed him the ability to log back in.

You can still click on Thunderf00t's old post at FTB and they are still making money off them.
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Re: An unstoppable tide of trolls

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:39 pm  •  [Post 6070]

Dilurk wrote:From the http://synapses.co.za/unstoppable-tide-trolls/ that was posted, is this comment.
Iamcuriousblue August 12, 2012 at 6:10 am | Permalink | Reply
The problem with FTB, or a significant portion of it, is that it basically took the culture of the “feminist blogosphere” (Jezebel, Pandagon, I Blame the Patriarchy, etc.) and grafted it on to the atheist community with disastrous results. So not only have they imported in many of the problems that that particular subculture hasn’t really dealt with (notably a “callout” culture rife with bullying, self-righteousness, exaggerated claims of victimization, dogmatism, etc.), but also imported in a whole kind of hyper-sensitive discourse around gender into another subculture (the atheist/secular one) that hasn’t really dealt with these issues, nor had any introduction one way or the other to the approaches internet feminists take to those issues.

It's a nice comment, but it seems to put the focus on the unpreparedness of the a/s community to assimilation by online feminist culture, as if if either community was more prepared there would be less problems. No, I think the whole problem is the toxicity of feminist culture, some of it unique to the blogosphere, some of it embedded in feminist theory itself (such as the concepts of Patriarchy, false consciousness, male privilege, etc.).
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Test

Postby Lsuoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:42 pm  •  [Post 6071]

<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:46 pm  •  [Post 6072]

Soon Abbie will being invited to conferences as freethought bully repellent-- ha! It will be great... they won't have to ban offensive jewelery, worry about all the enemies PZ has made, or make apologies to people who can't be placated.

FTB does have an exaggerated sense of their importance. I'm pretty sure most people who consider themselves an active part of the skeptic/freethought community-- don't even know who they are. This brouhaha isn't even a blip on most atheist skeptic forums, podcasts, videos, meet ups, conventions, etc.
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Re: Test

Postby DW Adams » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:47 pm  •  [Post 6073]

Lsuoma wrote:<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />


Image


fixt
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Re: Test

Postby Lsuoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:52 pm  •  [Post 6074]

Skeeve wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d/d7/LOL_WUT_PEAR.jpg" />


Image


fixt

Nah, I was actually trying to see if I could use the word replacement function to embed an image: so far I have not got it to work.

Back to the old drawing board...
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby DW Adams » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:01 pm  •  [Post 6075]

I have never seen this piece of the puzzle before today:

From 2010


What happened to her? Did this type of exposure push her too far too fast?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Za-zen » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:04 pm  •  [Post 6076]

It's a fucking shame abut cris rad.

I suggest she decided to cash in, all she had to do was change her fucking mind about reality, and badabing its $$$ time, im very sure that shes convinced herself that her "new" thoughts are nothing to do with her new blog network, who knows, maybe if she isn't a total idiot she'll recognise the circus she thought was her ticket, can ony ever damage her, and she'll pull the escape cord and salvage as much credibiity as she can. Writing her fftb venture off as a mind fart.
Dillahunty: @Zaminuszen You seem to confuse free speech with freethought. Ironic that you do this while claiming we don't know the difference. Bye!
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:21 pm  •  [Post 6077]

Skeeve wrote:I have never seen this piece of the puzzle before today:

From 2010


What happened to her? Did this type of exposure push her too far too fast?


Oh, Kryten why hast thou forsaken me?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:24 pm  •  [Post 6078]

bhoytony wrote:
Skeeve wrote:I have never seen this piece of the puzzle before today:

From 2010


What happened to her? Did this type of exposure push her too far too fast?


Oh, Kryten why hast thou forsaken me?


I could not watch more than a few minutes of the start. It's revolting.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:33 pm  •  [Post 6079]

sacha wrote:
Guest wrote:Thanks for the repost James.

I remember reading that piece by Myers at the time and noticing Myers misrepresentation of Hitchens views. I wrote Myers off as a pseudo skeptic with a political barrow to push, and didn't really pay any more attention to him until the whole elevator gate thing took off. Really he has always been a completely dishonest demagogue, it's only lately that this has started to be noticed by the wider skeptic 'community'.


That's when I stopped casually reading PZ's blog. I was never a commenter, and did not even read the comments then, but I would occasionally read a post.

You explained it extremely well. I am constantly amazed at the "liberal" and "conservative" dogma in the US and just how many suddenly had vitriol towards Hitch because of this. Even now if Hitchens is brought up in conversation, I still hear people say he lost his mental capacity when he "supported war and genocide". Hitch!

GRRRR

Hey, Sacha,

Didn't mean to suggest it was me who wrote the original post, sorry - I can see that's how it might have looked. I was just saying thanks to James for posting that info here (yeah, I'm a noob).
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Saint N. » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:34 pm  •  [Post 6080]

Za-zen wrote:maybe if she isn't a total idiot she'll recognise the circus she thought was her ticket, can ony ever damage her, and she'll pull the escape cord and salvage as much credibiity as she can. Writing her fftb venture off as a mind fart.


Having now got a glimpse of what goes on in the FtB backchannel, which all their bloggers apparently have access to, I don't see how any of them can fain ignorance about the sort of environment they are in. And before any one of there fans says something about how vile and vulgar the slyme pit is, let's remember that all things said on here are out in the open, with no backroom talk or whispers involved (unless there is a ultrasecret, confidential backchannel all of you are hiding from me). As to the possible accusation of why I'm ready to accept the worst about FtB's administrative shenanigans, let me ask this, why are Ed, PZ, et al only responding to the supposed "web ethics" of what Thunder did? Why haven't Ed, or PZ, or anyone else, produced information that contradicts the claims made by Tf00t's "hacked" email revelations? They keep saying that he is being selective with the information he is presenting, but then why don't they just reveal the part of the information that validates their position? When this happens, I'll gladly reconsider my position. Until that happens, I'll go by past experience and take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Yesterday, I was one of the people ready to say that this was a bad move on Thunder's part, and that he has made himself look petty when he had the high-ground before. But now that I know how FtB is still collecting money from his articles (articles that they claimed weren't good enough for their precious network) to increase their shared blog hits (what other reason would they have to keep up "unworthy, poorly written" articles, since several of them already responded to him during his time there and could just point to those if they want to give newcomers context), I can understand and sympathize with Tf00t's perspective a lot better.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:34 pm  •  [Post 6081]

Dilurk wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Oh, Kryten why hast thou forsaken me?


I could not watch more than a few minutes of the start. It's revolting.


I didn't watch much more myself. it's a pity to see Robert Llewellyn giving the attention whore some attention.

Image
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby sacha » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:41 pm  •  [Post 6082]

Guest wrote:
sacha wrote:
Guest wrote:Thanks for the repost James.

I remember reading that piece by Myers at the time and noticing Myers misrepresentation of Hitchens views. I wrote Myers off as a pseudo skeptic with a political barrow to push, and didn't really pay any more attention to him until the whole elevator gate thing took off. Really he has always been a completely dishonest demagogue, it's only lately that this has started to be noticed by the wider skeptic 'community'.


That's when I stopped casually reading PZ's blog. I was never a commenter, and did not even read the comments then, but I would occasionally read a post.

You explained it extremely well. I am constantly amazed at the "liberal" and "conservative" dogma in the US and just how many suddenly had vitriol towards Hitch because of this. Even now if Hitchens is brought up in conversation, I still hear people say he lost his mental capacity when he "supported war and genocide". Hitch!

GRRRR

Hey, Sacha,

Didn't mean to suggest it was me who wrote the original post, sorry - I can see that's how it might have looked. I was just saying thanks to James for posting that info here (yeah, I'm a noob).


oh, not to worry. I misunderstood.

Now that you have conversed here, would you please use a name besides "guest" so I know you are the same person if we "meet again"?

cheers
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:49 pm  •  [Post 6083]

bhoytony wrote:
Dilurk wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Oh, Kryten why hast thou forsaken me?


I could not watch more than a few minutes of the start. It's revolting.


I didn't watch much more myself. it's a pity to see Robert Llewellyn giving the attention whore some attention.

Image


Oh I got the Kryten reference alright, it's just I couldn't bring myself to watch it. The comments from Robert on his youtube channel about this video aren't very helpful either.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Spengler » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:49 pm  •  [Post 6084]

This
Ed Brayton
You will get paid at the same time everyone else is paid for revenue earned in June (and I will be happy to donate that money to charity if you would prefer, as I do for several of our other bloggers).


Then this
“I haven’t even given any thought to the point at which I would stop paying him. The blog was killed on July 1. I could call that the end or pay him for hits in July, which were not unsubstantial. Or at this point I could just tell him to go fuck himself.


and then this
ThunderFoot
ooloon, you are right, I had already said for Ed to give the money to charity. (I think u missed this comment)
http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4049

However evidently he had forgotten this as Eds above msg was sent some weeks afterwards. Its clear that he was sitting on my ‘not unsubstantial earnings’ wondering what to do with it. Well hopefully having this donated to the MSF charity drive by DPRJones will put a somewhat upbeat end to this.


Which means he wasn't thinking about it, but after being asked about it was considered not to donate TF's hit money to charity anymore and instead divy it up to FTB. Profits FTW!!!

These people are horrible.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:56 pm  •  [Post 6085]

Dilurk wrote:Oh I got the Kryten reference alright, it's just I couldn't bring myself to watch it. The comments from Robert on his youtube channel about this video aren't very helpful either.


Yes I got the impression in his comments that he didn't know anything about it beforehand and had just relied on the first shallow version of events that was presented to him.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:02 pm  •  [Post 6086]

Spengler wrote:This
Ed Brayton
You will get paid at the same time everyone else is paid for revenue earned in June (and I will be happy to donate that money to charity if you would prefer, as I do for several of our other bloggers).


Then this
“I haven’t even given any thought to the point at which I would stop paying him. The blog was killed on July 1. I could call that the end or pay him for hits in July, which were not unsubstantial. Or at this point I could just tell him to go fuck himself.


and then this
ThunderFoot
ooloon, you are right, I had already said for Ed to give the money to charity. (I think u missed this comment)
http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... mment-4049

However evidently he had forgotten this as Eds above msg was sent some weeks afterwards. Its clear that he was sitting on my ‘not unsubstantial earnings’ wondering what to do with it. Well hopefully having this donated to the MSF charity drive by DPRJones will put a somewhat upbeat end to this.


Which means he wasn't thinking about it, but after being asked about it was considered not to donate TF's hit money to charity anymore and instead divy it up to FTB. Profits FTW!!!

These people are horrible.


Maybe it was a restocking fee.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Za-zen » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:10 pm  •  [Post 6087]

That's why they fftb morons are going into nuclear metdown over tf leaking the chatter. They are wholly disingenuous, scheming, underhand, and very very malicous. Not the brand image they are aiming for sheep to percieve.

Dillacunty in his latest video fail tried to distnce himself from the backchannel with his splutter about not having been on it long. Bollocks matt you're fucking in damage control mode, because if you had any integrity you wud have outed the toxic badness going on, but no, you have perpetuated the "fair game" tactics of fftb. You are as much of a twisted malicous hypocrite as a creationist.... The rest of his video was a puke of how horrible tf is, and how really really really is all about truth logic and facts. Who the fuck is he trying to convince, himself? Is this another case of "keep saying it and the sheep will believe it"
Dillahunty: @Zaminuszen You seem to confuse free speech with freethought. Ironic that you do this while claiming we don't know the difference. Bye!
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby SteveW68 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:19 pm  •  [Post 6088]

Spengler wrote:These people are horrible.


To be fair - not ALL of them actually *are*. There are a number of the bloggers there who have not mentioned any of these goings on at all, who have kept completely out of it. As I mentioned on Twitter the other night, there are a couple of the writers there that I do have respect for and it is a shame that they will be collateral damage.
"What ho" sed de ting wid de tree bonce. "Don't mess wid tings you don't unnerstand"
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Za-zen » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:23 pm  •  [Post 6089]

Question is steve, if they saw they toxic cray of the back chatter, the setups, collective etc, and decided to not out it, then they are whores, selling their integrity for the $$ of the ad revenue. So no i have no repsect for them.
Dillahunty: @Zaminuszen You seem to confuse free speech with freethought. Ironic that you do this while claiming we don't know the difference. Bye!
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:26 pm  •  [Post 6090]

SteveW68 wrote:
Spengler wrote:These people are horrible.


To be fair - not ALL of them actually *are*. There are a number of the bloggers there who have not mentioned any of these goings on at all, who have kept completely out of it. As I mentioned on Twitter the other night, there are a couple of the writers there that I do have respect for and it is a shame that they will be collateral damage.


They may have "kept completely out of it", but presumably they are on the backchannel mailing list. That means they know what has been discussed about keeping the money owed to TF and sharing it out amongst themselves. "Keeping completely out of it" in those circumstances isn't something I have respect for and I think it is perfectly valid to describe them as "horrible".
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:27 pm  •  [Post 6091]

Za-zen wrote:Question is steve, if they saw they toxic cray of the back chatter, the setups, collective etc, and decided to not out it, then they are whores, selling their integrity for the $$ of the ad revenue. So no i have no repsect for them.


Or maybe they just don't care to read it...
"It is science we are talking about here. It doesn't matter if you like the person making the argument. Sometimes the evidence supports the nice people and sometimes complete bastards are on the correct side of a scientific argument." -Strawkins
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:29 pm  •  [Post 6092]

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Za-zen wrote:Question is steve, if they saw they toxic cray of the back chatter, the setups, collective etc, and decided to not out it, then they are whores, selling their integrity for the $$ of the ad revenue. So no i have no repsect for them.


Or maybe they just don't care to read it...


You really do have too nice a nature for this. I wish I had your faith in humanity.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:34 pm  •  [Post 6093]

bhoytony wrote:
Dilurk wrote:Oh I got the Kryten reference alright, it's just I couldn't bring myself to watch it. The comments from Robert on his youtube channel about this video aren't very helpful either.


Yes I got the impression in his comments that he didn't know anything about it beforehand and had just relied on the first shallow version of events that was presented to him.


My impression as well. It probably just looks like a blog flame war to him.

I watched the first 7 minutes of the video. I found it pretty inoffensive, Watson is basically describing skeptic culture and how she got involved. I don't know about "wonderful" and "clever", she comes across as a science/skeptic groupie/fan. Nothing bad about that, though you could make the case that she shouldn't have the attention that she got. Too boring to get me to watch the remaining 20 minutes, but I rarely have the attention span for long talking head videos.

I don't know why Llewellyn should be blamed for interviewing her back in 2010 before elevatorgate?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:37 pm  •  [Post 6094]

bhoytony wrote:
SteveW68 wrote:To be fair - not ALL of them actually *are*. There are a number of the bloggers there who have not mentioned any of these goings on at all, who have kept completely out of it. As I mentioned on Twitter the other night, there are a couple of the writers there that I do have respect for and it is a shame that they will be collateral damage.


They may have "kept completely out of it", but presumably they are on the backchannel mailing list. That means they know what has been discussed about keeping the money owed to TF and sharing it out amongst themselves. "Keeping completely out of it" in those circumstances isn't something I have respect for and I think it is perfectly valid to describe them as "horrible".


Could they be keeping quiet in fear that the FtBers will destroy their reputation and jobs if they speak out?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:40 pm  •  [Post 6095]

tachikoma wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Dilurk wrote:Oh I got the Kryten reference alright, it's just I couldn't bring myself to watch it. The comments from Robert on his youtube channel about this video aren't very helpful either.


Yes I got the impression in his comments that he didn't know anything about it beforehand and had just relied on the first shallow version of events that was presented to him.


My impression as well. It probably just looks like a blog flame war to him.

I watched the first 7 minutes of the video. I found it pretty inoffensive, Watson is basically describing skeptic culture and how she got involved. I don't know about "wonderful" and "clever", she comes across as a science/skeptic groupie/fan. Nothing bad about that, though you could make the case that she shouldn't have the attention that she got. Too boring to get me to watch the remaining 20 minutes, but I rarely have the attention span for long talking head videos.

I don't know why Llewellyn should be blamed for interviewing her back in 2010 before elevatorgate?


No, I tuned out after she told Llewellyn she had been introduced into scepticism from magic then JREF. She conveniently did not mention she had also been banned from JREF after she had been banned for using a sock puppet then when she accidentally was reinstated used her new found admin powers to ban her enemies (as a joke) on JREF. That's when I couldn't watch any more.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby mikelf » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:42 pm  •  [Post 6096]

Saint N. wrote: As to the possible accusation of why I'm ready to accept the worst about FtB's administrative shenanigans, let me ask this, why are Ed, PZ, et al only responding to the supposed "web ethics" of what Thunder did? Why haven't Ed, or PZ, or anyone else, produced information that contradicts the claims made by Tf00t's "hacked" email revelations? They keep saying that he is being selective with the information he is presenting, but then why don't they just reveal the part of the information that validates their position?


If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:45 pm  •  [Post 6097]

bhoytony wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Za-zen wrote:Question is steve, if they saw they toxic cray of the back chatter, the setups, collective etc, and decided to not out it, then they are whores, selling their integrity for the $$ of the ad revenue. So no i have no repsect for them.


Or maybe they just don't care to read it...


You really do have too nice a nature for this. I wish I had your faith in humanity.


Well, thing is, I still think most (some) of the FTB gang have some sort of "noble" goal in mind. The way they go about it is quite, let's say, disgusting, but it doesn't make them horrible human beings. And it is a valid hypothesis that some of them may not care at all about the backchannel. Or maybe they're all just huge assholes (this, I doubt).

BTW: "backchannel" on a suposedly skpetic blog, that really doesn't parse for me (hence my constant harassing of Lsuoma on moderation and such)...
"It is science we are talking about here. It doesn't matter if you like the person making the argument. Sometimes the evidence supports the nice people and sometimes complete bastards are on the correct side of a scientific argument." -Strawkins
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:47 pm  •  [Post 6098]

tachikoma wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Dilurk wrote:Oh I got the Kryten reference alright, it's just I couldn't bring myself to watch it. The comments from Robert on his youtube channel about this video aren't very helpful either.


Yes I got the impression in his comments that he didn't know anything about it beforehand and had just relied on the first shallow version of events that was presented to him.


My impression as well. It probably just looks like a blog flame war to him.

I watched the first 7 minutes of the video. I found it pretty inoffensive, Watson is basically describing skeptic culture and how she got involved. I don't know about "wonderful" and "clever", she comes across as a science/skeptic groupie/fan. Nothing bad about that, though you could make the case that she shouldn't have the attention that she got. Too boring to get me to watch the remaining 20 minutes, but I rarely have the attention span for long talking head videos.

I don't know why Llewellyn should be blamed for interviewing her back in 2010 before elevatorgate?


I wasn't blaming him, just making a joke. I still don't see why anybody would interview her now. then or anytime. Why on earth she was given a place on the SGU is beyond me. All she seems to do on the show is make desperately unfunny jokes, completely miss all the nerdy references that are supposedly aimed at the oh-my god I'm-such-a-nerd persona that she fakes and read out some shite that she googled in two minutes using the words science and scepticism. I can do my own internet searches thank you very much.
Off-topic, but looking at your avatar by coincidence I am just about to rewatch Ghost In The Shell for the first time in years
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Re: Fundamentalism in the Sceptic Community

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:51 pm  •  [Post 6099]

James Onen wrote:
One group which claims women are getting harassed sexually at Sceptic Conferences and are the victims of online hate mail. Another group claims that this isn’t really an issue, are requesting evidence to back up the first groups claims, and that the first group are making unrealistic demands on policy changes. While the last group simply think the first two groups are been utterly ridiculous and irrational.


http://musinlon.wordpress.com/2012/08/1 ... community/


A pretty good article about the black and white thinking that colors the politics in the US and how that spilled over into the skepticism movement. However, I take exception to this paragraph. What, exactly, does this third group want to have happen? It's "utterly ridiculous and irrational" to request evidence to back up claims?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Mr Danksworth » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:01 pm  •  [Post 6100]

Who wants to start a pool on how long he can last?
http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2012/08/12/211/
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby tachikoma » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:04 pm  •  [Post 6101]

bhoytony wrote:I still don't see why anybody would interview her now. then or anytime. Why on earth she was given a place on the SGU is beyond me. All she seems to do on the show is make desperately unfunny jokes, completely miss all the nerdy references that are supposedly aimed at the oh-my god I'm-such-a-nerd persona that she fakes and read out some shite that she googled in two minutes using the words science and scepticism. I can do my own internet searches thank you very much.
Off-topic, but looking at your avatar by coincidence I am just about to rewatch Ghost In The Shell for the first time in years


It's probably, like other people said before, the OMGITSAGIRL reaction from the guys in skepticism.

GitS is worth rewatching. You mean the first movie or the TV series? Probably the series since that has the Tachikoma, but you said "in years" and the series just came out recently...OH SHIT GitS:SAC CAME OUT 10 YEARS AGO WHERE DID THE TIME GO
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:09 pm  •  [Post 6102]

tachikoma wrote:
bhoytony wrote:I still don't see why anybody would interview her now. then or anytime. Why on earth she was given a place on the SGU is beyond me. All she seems to do on the show is make desperately unfunny jokes, completely miss all the nerdy references that are supposedly aimed at the oh-my god I'm-such-a-nerd persona that she fakes and read out some shite that she googled in two minutes using the words science and scepticism. I can do my own internet searches thank you very much.
Off-topic, but looking at your avatar by coincidence I am just about to rewatch Ghost In The Shell for the first time in years


It's probably, like other people said before, the OMGITSAGIRL reaction from the guys in skepticism.

GitS is worth rewatching. You mean the first movie or the TV series? Probably the series since that has the Tachikoma, but you said "in years" and the series just came out recently...OH SHIT GitS:SAC CAME OUT 10 YEARS AGO WHERE DID THE TIME GO


I so dislike this movie, it's almost hate.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby BarnOwl » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:22 pm  •  [Post 6103]

Dilurk:

I could not watch more than a few minutes of the start. It's revolting.


Ditto. She's just another boring, self-involved slacker with a whiny, jaded voice.

In unrelated news, who would have thought that bathing two small (10 lb and 11 lb) dogs would be such a prolonged and messy struggle? I had less water on my clothes after hosing off an 1100-lb Thoroughbred subsequent to a trail ride this morning.

OK, maybe I shouldn't let the little dogs run around the house after toweling them off. Wet streaks on the carpet and walls from where they tried to dry themselves off further. :mrgreen:
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:28 pm  •  [Post 6104]

tachikoma wrote:
GitS is worth rewatching. You mean the first movie or the TV series? Probably the series since that has the Tachikoma, but you said "in years" and the series just came out recently...OH SHIT GitS:SAC CAME OUT 10 YEARS AGO WHERE DID THE TIME GO


I'm going to rewatch both movies. I know the tachikoma were in the TV series, not the movie but it just made me think of the coincidence.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Saint N. » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:32 pm  •  [Post 6105]

mikelf wrote:
Saint N. wrote: As to the possible accusation of why I'm ready to accept the worst about FtB's administrative shenanigans, let me ask this, why are Ed, PZ, et al only responding to the supposed "web ethics" of what Thunder did? Why haven't Ed, or PZ, or anyone else, produced information that contradicts the claims made by Tf00t's "hacked" email revelations? They keep saying that he is being selective with the information he is presenting, but then why don't they just reveal the part of the information that validates their position?


If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.


Exactly.

Yesterday, FTBers were making it sound as if they were going to take legal action against Tf00t, now it's all about how "dishonest", "vile", and "underhanded" it is for Thunder to expose their backchannel talks. If they could sue, they would; if they could falsify the things Tf00t exposed, they would; but they won't. So, you do the math. Fuck, they can't even prove that he doc dropped (the sin they were so frantic about just a mere 24 hours ago).

Also, if we are expected to refrain from criticizing the members of FtB who have so far (apparently) stayed out of the discussion (either due to apathy, fear, or ignorance of the questionable things going on in these backchannel discussion). Then I gather that all of these neutral FtBers will be equally willing to refrain from criticizing moderate/liberal Christians for not openly distancing themselves from the questionable actions of their respective churches. No?
Evidence or GTFO
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:34 pm  •  [Post 6106]

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
I so dislike this movie, it's almost hate.


Hey, come on. No GitS, then no Matrix. Actually if that means no Matrix Reloaded or Matrix Revolutions then I'd be OK with it.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:43 pm  •  [Post 6107]

bhoytony wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
I so dislike this movie, it's almost hate.


Hey, come on. No GitS, then no Matrix. Actually if that means no Matrix Reloaded or Matrix Revolutions then I'd be OK with it.


Do watch GitS in Japanese with subtitles if you must. The English dubbed version was bowdlerized as is typically done. You'll laugh more. I remember the Tachikoma from one of the Manga. I need to reread that Manga and rewatch the video.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby bhoytony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:49 pm  •  [Post 6108]

Dilurk wrote:[
Do watch GitS in Japanese with subtitles if you must. The English dubbed version was bowdlerized as is typically done. You'll laugh more. I remember the Tachikoma from one of the Manga. I need to reread that Manga and rewatch the video.


One of my pet hates is dubbing films into English. Can't people read? Yes the versions of these that I have are subtitled. I also have the TV series with some of the worst subtitles I've ever seen, I think I probably made more sense of the Japanese soundtrack.
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:32 pm  •  [Post 6109]

Tachikoma,

I thought your avatar was one robot doing another robot from behind. Is this not so?
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

Postby Dilurk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:06 pm  •  [Post 6110]

Guest wrote:Tachikoma,

I thought your avatar was one robot doing another robot from behind. Is this not so?


Could be couldn't it? http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Tachikoma
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