You is all a bunch of poofs!

MarcusAu
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10741

Post by MarcusAu »

Since the FT popped up (so to speak) - is anyone worried about the malign influence of 'Big Tittie' on society?

Starting at 22 min for the curious...


jugheadnaut
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10742

Post by jugheadnaut »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
jugheadnaut wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:It couldn't be clearer ... that the gunman did not block him and was no where near getting in his way.
Arbery_challenge.jpg
You have my quote completely out of context. In that quote, I was referring to when Arbery had dodged to the right of the truck. Please be more careful.
Arbery dodged to the right cuz Junior was standing in the middle of the road pointing a shotgun. I think that qualifies as 'blocking'.
You're making things up. He was not pointing the shotgun. And please spare me from any sophistry that holding the gun at the hip pointed towards the ground is the same thing. I mentioned in my analysis that it looked like McMichael's plan was to obstruct as much of the road as possible as Arbery was approaching. There's nothing there that's inconsistent with their claim of just wanting him to stop and then do a citizen's arrest. Arbery, of course, had every right to dodge this.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
The frames you show are not in sequence.... The first is frame 437 ... 439 ... 457 ... 461 ... 468.
Last time I checked, that's a sequence.

Well, technically speaking it's a mathematical sequence, but any list of numbers is. What it's not is a sequence of video frames. The progression you showed is monotonic, but it's not sequential. A sequential order is the canonical ordering of items, which for video is the frames in consecutive order. If I gave you the book and asked you to read the chapters in sequence, and you read chapters 1,3,5, and then 10, you would not be following my directions. Getting back to the relevant point, if you're trying to characterize someone's movement with a set of video frames that advances haphazardly, you are doing less than nothing.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
They do meet in front of the engine, although the first shot takes place when Arbery is in front of the engine. There is no charge from McMichael.
Call it a 'leisurely stroll' for all I care. Fact is, Junior advanced quickly to his left to intercept Artery in front of the truck. And fired. And missed, apparently.

Which was shitty tactics, btw. You've got a long gun, so why are you closing the range, shotgun at your hip, all banzai style? Stay in place, effect a proper shoulder mount and cheek weld, draw a bead and wait for Arbery to appear. The nigger can then choose to either surrender to the self-appointed posse, run in the opposite direction, or continue charging and take a well-aimed load of buck.

Seriously, the number of gun nuts with absolutely atrocious gun sense is embarrassing.
And now you're dropping the mask. You're not trying to find out what the truth is, you're just looking to support the same conclusion you came to when you completely botched your initial interpretation of the video. Boiling down the video sequence to "McMichael moved to the front of the truck and fired" ignores all relevant detail. He fired when Arbery was almost on him in his charge, about 0.2 seconds away. The best interpretation is that it was a panicked warning shot. There is zero evidence he was planning on just shooting Arbery when he emerged from the front of the truck. You've had plenty of chance to point it out, but haven't. Based on your evident extreme bias, we're done here.

jugheadnaut
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10743

Post by jugheadnaut »

Lsuoma wrote: Also, I'm going to raise a glass to SARS-Cov-2 since it seems to a have rejuvenated the Pit to a level of activity not seen in years. Heck, we have PA, JV and others back (#VaculaMustDenounce, of course), and the MC/FTP slanging appears to be more rational than it has been for a long time.
Back when it looked like the Pit had suffered a sudden technical death, I was thinking the timing was really bad, because the pandemic would probably help spring it back to life. It took a while, but it looks like we're getting back to a full page a day activity. Of course, in it's heyday, I recall it was more like 3 or 4 pages a day (but that was with the help of one or two long departed wall of text generators).

jugheadnaut
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10744

Post by jugheadnaut »

My earlier message with the quotes fixed:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
jugheadnaut wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:It couldn't be clearer ... that the gunman did not block him and was no where near getting in his way.
Arbery_challenge.jpg
You have my quote completely out of context. In that quote, I was referring to when Arbery had dodged to the right of the truck. Please be more careful.
Arbery dodged to the right cuz Junior was standing in the middle of the road pointing a shotgun. I think that qualifies as 'blocking'.
You're making things up. He was not pointing the shotgun. And please spare me from any sophistry that holding the gun at the hip pointed towards the ground is the same thing. I mentioned in my analysis that it looked like McMichael's plan was to obstruct as much of the road as possible as Arbery was approaching. There's nothing there that's inconsistent with their claim of just wanting him to stop and then do a citizen's arrest. Arbery, of course, had every right to dodge this.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
The frames you show are not in sequence.... The first is frame 437 ... 439 ... 457 ... 461 ... 468.
Last time I checked, that's a sequence.
Well, technically speaking it's a mathematical sequence, but any list of numbers is. What it's not is a sequence of video frames. The progression you showed is monotonic, but it's not sequential. A sequential order is the canonical ordering of items, which for video is the frames in consecutive order. If I gave you the book and asked you to read the chapters in sequence, and you read chapters 1,3,5, and then 10, you would not be following my directions. Getting back to the relevant point, if you're trying to characterize someone's movement with a set of video frames that advances haphazardly, you are doing less than nothing.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
They do meet in front of the engine, although the first shot takes place when Arbery is in front of the engine. There is no charge from McMichael.
Call it a 'leisurely stroll' for all I care. Fact is, Junior advanced quickly to his left to intercept Artery in front of the truck. And fired. And missed, apparently.

Which was shitty tactics, btw. You've got a long gun, so why are you closing the range, shotgun at your hip, all banzai style? Stay in place, effect a proper shoulder mount and cheek weld, draw a bead and wait for Arbery to appear. The nigger can then choose to either surrender to the self-appointed posse, run in the opposite direction, or continue charging and take a well-aimed load of buck.

Seriously, the number of gun nuts with absolutely atrocious gun sense is embarrassing.
And now you're dropping the mask. You're not trying to find out what the truth is, you're just looking to support the same conclusion you came to when you completely botched your initial interpretation of the video. Boiling down the video sequence to "McMichael moved to the front of the truck and fired" ignores all relevant detail. He fired when Arbery was almost on him in his charge, about 0.2 seconds away. The best interpretation is that it was a panicked warning shot. There is zero evidence he was planning on just shooting Arbery when he emerged from the front of the truck. You've had plenty of chance to point it out, but haven't. Based on your evident extreme bias, we're done here.

Driftless
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10745

Post by Driftless »

MarcusAu wrote: Since the FT popped up (so to speak) - is anyone worried about the malign influence of 'Big Tittie' on society?

Starting at 22 min for the curious...

Interesting bit about saying breast milk instead of breastfeeding. Wanted to be business friendly and not imply that women would stay home and breastfeed. Also seemed to imply that they wanted breast milk to be a product. I guess it would be another source of income for the poor.


Pitchguest
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10747

Post by Pitchguest »

jugheadnaut wrote:
Lsuoma wrote: Also, I'm going to raise a glass to SARS-Cov-2 since it seems to a have rejuvenated the Pit to a level of activity not seen in years. Heck, we have PA, JV and others back (#VaculaMustDenounce, of course), and the MC/FTP slanging appears to be more rational than it has been for a long time.
Back when it looked like the Pit had suffered a sudden technical death, I was thinking the timing was really bad, because the pandemic would probably help spring it back to life. It took a while, but it looks like we're getting back to a full page a day activity. Of course, in it's heyday, I recall it was more like 3 or 4 pages a day (but that was with the help of one or two long departed wall of text generators).
Wall of text generators, it's funny I know exactly who you mean when you say that.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10748

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

jugheadnaut wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Arbery dodged to the right cuz Junior was standing in the middle of the road pointing a shotgun. I think that qualifies as 'blocking'.
You're making things up. He was not pointing the shotgun. And please spare me from any sophistry that holding the gun at the hip pointed towards the ground is the same thing.
Show us the frame where the angle of the gun can be measured, and then the GA statute defining at what angle a gun goes from non-threatening to threatening. Is port arms benign? African carry? Or has this legal opinion just been pulled out of your ass?

I mentioned in my analysis that it looked like McMichael's plan was to obstruct as much of the road as possible as Arbery was approaching.
'obstruct' and 'block' are synonyms. And I'm the sophist.

There's nothing there that's inconsistent with their claim of just wanting him to stop and then do a citizen's arrest. Arbery, of course, had every right to dodge this.
Junior and Arbery cannot both be within their legal rights. If the arrest is legal, Arbery has no right to resist. If the arrest is illegal, Junior has no right to just shoot someone.

Well, technically speaking it's a mathematical sequence, but any list of numbers is. What it's not is a sequence of video frames.
I was unaware the term ‘sequence’ had a different definition for the film industry.

if you're trying to characterize someone's movement with a set of video frames that advances haphazardly, you are doing less than nothing.
Show us the frames I left out which undermine my argument.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:24 pm
Which was shitty tactics, btw. You've got a long gun, so why are you closing the range….
And now you're dropping the mask. You're not trying to find out what the truth is, you're just looking to support the same conclusion you came to when you completely botched your initial interpretation of the video. Boiling down the video sequence to "McMichael moved to the front of the truck and fired" ignores all relevant detail. He fired when Arbery was almost on him in his charge, about 0.2 seconds away.
I’m not sure what secret agenda you’re accusing me of hiding, but here’s why this detail is important. I’m calling this murder, so I need to show mens rea. Closing the range in a self-defense situation is generally a bad idea, especially vs. an unarmed foe. It only makes it easier for your foe to take your weapon. And look what happened.

Presuming a gun aficionado and son of a cop knows this maxim, that he did the opposite gives insight into his state of mind: Junior was allowing Arbery but two options - either surrender or die. Ergo, Junior intended on killing Arbery the moment he exited the truck.
There is zero evidence he was planning on just shooting Arbery when he emerged from the front of the truck.
I believe Junior's subsequent actions are damning evidence. But just ordering someone to halt while standing armed in the middle of the road, would lead a person to reasonably assume you meant them great harm.

The best interpretation is that it was a panicked warning shot.

Panicked, yes. A warning shot? LMAO. Warning shots tend to be aimed well away, and fired early enough to, you know, give warning. Advancing on the threat, then firing at his center mass from no more than a foot’s distance, is not how I’d go about warning someone.

In any case, your “relevant details” aren't worth shit until you can establish:
1) A citizen’s arrest was legal in this instance, AND;
2) The arrest was properly conducted, AND;
3) Use of lethal force was permissible.

You say we’re done here, but you haven’t even gotten started.

Pitchguest
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10749

Post by Pitchguest »

Brive1987 wrote: Pretty much why I’ve been pissed off for two years - captured on one screen.

Grrrr.

You've been pissed about Pink for two years? You poor man!

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10750

Post by Lsuoma »

Maybe this will draw Abbie back: article on Judy Mikovits best-seller book in Rolling Stone.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... on-998224/

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10751

Post by Lsuoma »

"Plague of Corruption is, essentially, an act of self-hagiography. Throughout the book, Mikovits is compared or compares herself to, among others, Galileo, Martin Luther King Jr., and Thomas Jefferson (in the latter instance, she quotes a lyric from Hamilton in the process). At one point, she quotes someone else describing her as “really brilliant.” Plague of Corruption is replete with villains, and one of Mikovits’ favorites (as also documented by Plandemic) is Dr. Anthony Fauci. “Whenever you ask yourself why the truth hasn’t been told in a critical area of public health, you’ll probably find the fingerprints of these men at the crime scene,” she writes, citing Fauci as an example. In one particularly egregious excerpt, Mikovits implies that Fauci ordered the murder of virologist Kuan-Teh Jeang, who died in 2013, as part of a cover-up burying Mikovits’ research. “The rumor is that [he] left a suicide note, which was confiscated by the National Institutes of Health police. I wonder if it resembles the torn-up note found in Vince Foster’s briefcase,” she writes, slyly sounding another far-right conspiracy-theorist dog whistle."

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10752

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Since increased posting has been given official sanction I'm going to do my bit with a bit of Spygate. Feel free to ignore. I find both interesting and disturbing. It looks as if the dam is now bursting, or about to burst on the Russiagate front. There is now absolutely no doubt at all that Flynn was set up and forced into a "confession" to protect his son. The FBI made it clear that they were scrutinising his son's FARA paperwork and Flynn couldn't be 100% certain that the lawyers hadn't made an error. The malfeasance of the intelligence/FBI leadership, Obama Whitehouse, Clinton campaign and impeachment warriors is now becoming clear with the release of interview transcripts and other info. The dots are being joined and it is probably going to be very discomfiting for a lot of people if Barr is serious about taking this all the way and letting Durham loose.
You could have months of hearings just unravelling the Flynn and Papadopolous cases with the foreign intelligence connections and press collusion. If you can bear the voice this woman has a very interesting story to tell. She got caught up in the assassination of Flynn.



I've heard the name Stefan Halper before, in connection with the entrapment of Papadopoulis.

justinvacula
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10753

Post by justinvacula »

White man loose on stage! White man loose on stage!

I member :)

But in her defense, perhaps Watson was too busy tweeting about how “strange” it was to have a “white man” open the conference to pay attention to what I was actually saying. (I’m just glad Watson didn’t notify security: “white man loose on stage, white man loose on stage!”)

https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/watso ... unication/

Ron's great posts and his original speech are still on the CFI website. Sadly, so much is lost to time, but thanks Brive for helping find some gems!

KiwiInOz
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10754

Post by KiwiInOz »

Keating wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: I don't see them as "evil". They play the long realpolitik game. They control a dragon (1.4 billion increasingly affluent and globalised citizens) by holding the tip of its tail, and need to keep it sweet, and believing that its interests are served by them.

Counter revolution seems increasingly likely as the years go by.
I don't disagree that they're playing the long game. I'm more sceptical that a counter revolution is likely. Indeed, given how willingly we in the West are willing to surrender our privacy to companies like FaceBook, I wouldn't be surprised if we collapse into the Chinese model.

As I said, it's about the ideals behind them. Do you really disagree that if given the choice between the United States and Chinese overlords, there is no choice? The United States is the only sane option. Sure, I'd rather neither, but that isn't on the table.
Counter revolution, maybe not. But they don't want the natives getting restless.

And they are buying up influence and vast tracts of land in Africa and Australia, etc, to ensure food security for their population into the future.

KiwiInOz
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10755

Post by KiwiInOz »

Brive1987 wrote: Pretty much why I’ve been pissed off for two years - captured on one screen.

Grrrr.

But "we've boundless plains to share".

free thoughtpolice
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10756

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Lsuoma wrote: "Plague of Corruption is, essentially, an act of self-hagiography. Throughout the book, Mikovits is compared or compares herself to, among others, Galileo, Martin Luther King Jr., and Thomas Jefferson (in the latter instance, she quotes a lyric from Hamilton in the process). At one point, she quotes someone else describing her as “really brilliant.” Plague of Corruption is replete with villains, and one of Mikovits’ favorites (as also documented by Plandemic) is Dr. Anthony Fauci. “Whenever you ask yourself why the truth hasn’t been told in a critical area of public health, you’ll probably find the fingerprints of these men at the crime scene,” she writes, citing Fauci as an example. In one particularly egregious excerpt, Mikovits implies that Fauci ordered the murder of virologist Kuan-Teh Jeang, who died in 2013, as part of a cover-up burying Mikovits’ research. “The rumor is that [he] left a suicide note, which was confiscated by the National Institutes of Health police. I wonder if it resembles the torn-up note found in Vince Foster’s briefcase,” she writes, slyly sounding another far-right conspiracy-theorist dog whistle."
The first I heard of "Plandemic" was a friend that had her "conservative Christian Dad" send a link.
When I checked it out and saw Mikovits it was a bit like groundhog day. These grifters get proven wrong again and again but they only have to wait for a new crop of marks to come by a year or 2 later, even after their pitch has been debunked.

Keating
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10757

Post by Keating »

KiwiInOz wrote: And they are buying up influence and vast tracts of land in Africa and Australia, etc, to ensure food security for their population into the future.
Yes, there aren't any more Tibets to invade nearby. And while I can agree with trading with China, I don't think we should be selling land or companies to them. That's a disaster.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10758

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

free thoughtpolice wrote: The first I heard of "Plandemic" was a friend that had her "conservative Christian Dad" send a link.
Sadly, on the 'Re-Open' groups on FB, PlanDemic is even more popular than '5G is causing the virus'.

And one of many things the far right shares with the far left is a complete lack of humor:
TrumP-jesus.png
(106.59 KiB) Downloaded 201 times
It went downhill from there, getting called a "Satanist" by Church Lady who, without any sense of irony, then expressed bemusement* at how the tone of the country has become so rancorous*, and internet-stalked by some MAGA dude who looked like a cross between Duck Dynasty and Manson.

I contemplated explaining how, in a Dem-majority state like CA, they might want to consider erecting a big tent to further their cause. Instead, I exited stage left, bid adieu, wishing them well to enjoy conspiracy theories and Kitsch art.



* my words, definitely not hers.

KiwiInOz
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10759

Post by KiwiInOz »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: The first I heard of "Plandemic" was a friend that had her "conservative Christian Dad" send a link.
Sadly, on the 'Re-Open' groups on FB, PlanDemic is even more popular than '5G is causing the virus'.

And one of many things the far right shares with the far left is a complete lack of humor:

TrumP-jesus.png

It went downhill from there, getting called a "Satanist" by Church Lady who, without any sense of irony, then expressed bemusement* at how the tone of the country has become so rancorous*, and internet-stalked by some MAGA dude who looked like a cross between Duck Dynasty and Manson.

I contemplated explaining how, in a Dem-majority state like CA, they might want to consider erecting a big tent to further their cause. Instead, I exited stage left, bid adieu, wishing them well to enjoy conspiracy theories and Kitsch art.



* my words, definitely not hers.
You should have just politely agreed that he needed Jesus to come inside him.

Brive1987
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10760

Post by Brive1987 »

Fuck.

There’s strong evidence emerging that all countries were already ‘around the curve’ for infections prior to gong into lock down.

Good podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/t ... 0474373435


Brive1987
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10761

Post by Brive1987 »

“Going”

KiwiInOz
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10762

Post by KiwiInOz »

Brive1987 wrote: Fuck.

There’s strong evidence emerging that all countries were already ‘around the curve’ for infections prior to gong into lock down.

Good podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/t ... 0474373435

Um. I doubt it. That not how virulent infections work.

Brive1987
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10763

Post by Brive1987 »

There are converging reputable studies Indicating the R0 was approaching zero prior to the lockdowns. This due to initial smart distancing.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10764

Post by Brive1987 »

Ummm I mean ‘1 or below’

KiwiInOz
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10765

Post by KiwiInOz »

Brive1987 wrote: There are converging reputable studies Indicating the R0 was approaching zero prior to the lockdowns. This due to initial smart distancing.
Got
https://cdn.productreview.com.au/resize ... ement=true ??

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10766

Post by KiwiInOz »

Brive1987 wrote: Ummm I mean ‘1 or below’
Yeah. It was quite a claim, given that Australia's current R value is just above 1. :lol:

Driftless
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10767

Post by Driftless »

Google backing off on Diversity and Inclusion?:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cu ... n-n1206181
One well-liked diversity training program at Google called Sojourn, a comprehensive racial justice program created for employees to learn about implicit bias and how to navigate conversations about race and inequality, was cut entirely, according to seven former and current employees. Sojourn offered its last training to Google workers in 2018, four current employees said, and by 2019 it was cut completely.
"Well-liked" by SJWs, no doubt. Implicit bias testing has not been shown to relate to any racist behavior, so I think it is a good thing that they are winding down some of these things.

Sounds like the diversity gravy train is going away at Google.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10768

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

KiwiInOz wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:23 pm
Keating wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: Meh. We told the USA to piss off, and we'll do the same with China. Meanwhile Australia will bluster and then kiss Trump and Xi's respective arses.
What terrifies me is the number of people who are prepared to carry water for China just because they hate the United States. I have my own problems with the "Deputy Sherif" role of Australia to the United States, but I don't see how anyone can seriously believe that the world where China is the sole superpower is superior to the one where the United States is. While the US doesn't live up to its ideals as much as I'd like, at least its ideals are good. The CCP's ideals, on the other hand, are actively evil, and they do live up to them.
I don't see them as "evil". They play the long realpolitik game. They control a dragon (1.4 billion increasingly affluent and globalised citizens) by holding the tip of its tail, and need to keep it sweet, and believing that its interests are served by them.

Counter revolution seems increasingly likely as the years go by.
Bless the cherubic-faced dears, and the political prisoners saying to themselves "At least their hearts are in the right place, unlike my kidneys". That long realpolitik game you describe is "evil". If this dragon is such an unruly beast then why do they keep trying to increase it's size? There is no real difference between the CCP and the Nazi Party. Hitler was trying out his version of realpolitik in service to Germany. I would posit that the underlying self-serving egotistical basis for their actions is the same for both.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10769

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

KiwiInOz wrote: You should have just politely agreed that he needed Jesus to come inside him.
:lol:

S'pose I could've quoted scripture:

"He among you who has never cheated on his ex-call girl wife with a porn star, let him first cast a stone." --John 8:7

free thoughtpolice
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10770

Post by free thoughtpolice »

One of Tara Reade's lawyers once worked for Russian propaganda outfit Sputnik.
https://time.com/5834049/tara-reade-biden-lawyer/
Moran, who works at a law firm in Columbia, Maryland, previously wrote and edited for Sputnik, a news agency founded and supported by the Russian state-owned media company Rossiya Segodnya. A January 2017 report released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Russia’s interference in the 2016 campaign said Sputnik was part of “Russia’s state-run propaganda machine,” which “contributed to the influence campaign by serving as a platform for Kremlin messaging to Russian and international audiences.”

Reade herself has faced questions about her past writing praising Russian President Vladimir Putin. Reade on Thursday expressed concern to Kelly about having been “called a Russian agent” and said she had received a death threat from someone who “thought I was being a traitor to America.”

There is no evidence to suggest Reade or Moran worked at the behest of Russia with respect to the Biden allegation.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10771

Post by AndrewV69 »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
You say we’re done here, but you haven’t even gotten started.
As far as I am concerned you two are arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But hey do not let that stop you. Carry on.

Obligatory Tim Pool video:



Most relevant comment on the video:
Surprised they didn't rule it a covid death 🤣
(Do you detect some sarcasm in my utterings?)

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10772

Post by Service Dog »

free thoughtpolice wrote: One of Tara Reade's lawyers once worked for Russian propaganda outfit Sputnik.
Same lawyer also worked for Hillary Rodham Epstein Clinton.
I am Bill Moran, a former writer and editor for the DC bureau of Sputnik News. I grew up in Arizona, graduated from Georgetown Law, pushed ballot initiatives on college affordability, worked on political campaigns (even sent fundraising emails for Hillary Clinton earlier this election cycle), and am your average ambitious 29-year-old who always had a secret hope to become a print journalist.
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201610 ... tin-Trump/

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10773

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:06 am
One of Tara Reade's lawyers once worked for Russian propaganda outfit Sputnik.
https://time.com/5834049/tara-reade-biden-lawyer/
Moran, who works at a law firm in Columbia, Maryland, previously wrote and edited for Sputnik, a news agency founded and supported by the Russian state-owned media company Rossiya Segodnya. A January 2017 report released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Russia’s interference in the 2016 campaign said Sputnik was part of “Russia’s state-run propaganda machine,” which “contributed to the influence campaign by serving as a platform for Kremlin messaging to Russian and international audiences.”

Reade herself has faced questions about her past writing praising Russian President Vladimir Putin. Reade on Thursday expressed concern to Kelly about having been “called a Russian agent” and said she had received a death threat from someone who “thought I was being a traitor to America.”

There is no evidence to suggest Reade or Moran worked at the behest of Russia with respect to the Biden allegation.
When in doubt, invoke the Russians. Forget Russia. Russian interference is a universal get out of jail free card. There is little evidence that Russia had much interest in the last election beyond creating some division, not much evidence that the Russians were that concerned about a Clinton presidency and little evidence that they hacked any servers. The idea that Russian intelligence had anything to do with Clinton's bespoke smear "dossier" is ridiculous (they aren't that incompetent and know how to spell Russian words). Russian interference as a major issue was invented as a pretext to go after Trump. Funny how Chinese influence isn't as big a problem for the Russia-phobic media despite being arguably a far more sinister threat. I wonder how many senators would escape on submarines to South America if Chinese connections were scrutinised that closely. Poor Russians must be tired of being dragged into US drama.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10774

Post by free thoughtpolice »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Russian interference as a major issue was invented as a pretext to go after Trump.
So you are saying that the Russians didn't try to interfere in the American election? Another democrat hoax like covid19?
Notice that I included the last line saying their is no evidence that Russia has worked to further the Biden (sex) allegation. It is certainly an odd coincidence that Reade writes fawning praise about Putin that sounds like romantic fiction and one of her lawyers was actually on Putin's payroll, but as the article notes there has been no evidence this current bimbo eruption was orchestrated by Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_i ... _elections

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10775

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

AndrewV69 wrote: As far as I am concerned you two are arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
What matters is the sequence in which the angels dance.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10776

Post by Service Dog »

free thoughtpolice wrote: Russian interference .... Another democrat hoax like covid19?
Russian interference is another democrat hoax EXACTLY like covid19.

There's COVID-19 the actual disease. Then there's all the democrat COVID-19 hoaxes piggybacking on the actual disease.

There's actual russian interference. Then there's all the democrat hoaxes about Russia Russia Russia.


The problem with crying-wolf about Russia & Tara Reade-- is the Russians (or ANYBODY) don't have to do anything underhanded-- to exploit the Biden Rape Allegation. Biden & the Democrats & the dem-friendly media built the trap for themselves... with #metoo, the Kavanaugh precedent, etc.

All Russia (or anyone) has to to-- to exploit the Biden Rape issue-- is play by the rules/ report the story straight/ apply a consistent standard.

You need to catch Russia doing something not-kosher in the Biden Rapist case-- otherwise you're making a fuss about nothing.

If Charles Manson saw a ball of litter next to a prison trash can. And he picked it up & put it in the can. The fact that he's Manson doesn't prove he did anything wrong. Even if he did it to troll you.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10777

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Service Dog wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Russian interference .... Another democrat hoax like covid19?
Russian interference is another democrat hoax EXACTLY like covid19.

There's COVID-19 the actual disease. Then there's all the democrat COVID-19 hoaxes piggybacking on the actual disease.

There's actual russian interference. Then there's all the democrat hoaxes about Russia Russia Russia.


The problem with crying-wolf about Russia & Tara Reade-- is the Russians (or ANYBODY) don't have to do anything underhanded-- to exploit the Biden Rape Allegation. Biden & the Democrats & the dem-friendly media built the trap for themselves... with #metoo, the Kavanaugh precedent, etc.

All Russia (or anyone) has to to-- to exploit the Biden Rape issue-- is play by the rules/ report the story straight/ apply a consistent standard.

You need to catch Russia doing something not-kosher in the Biden Rapist case-- otherwise you're making a fuss about nothing.

If Charles Manson saw a ball of litter next to a prison trash can. And he picked it up & put it in the can. The fact that he's Manson doesn't prove he did anything wrong. Even if he did it to troll you.
I don't disagree with your main point. I pointed out the Tara Reade Russian connections not to show that the Russians were behind it, but how even a large number of leftists admire Putin. Take Glenn Greenwald or Noam Chomsky for example. They have never ending criticism of Merka and the rest of the west but you never hear a single word about the excesses of Russia or China.
Likewise take the goofy far left like PZ, Mano Singham, and Marcus "Marxist" Ranum. They take the attitude that if the Dems don't go full dingbat extreme left they won't support the party. In the mean time their goofy trans feminist antifa type of antics drive centrists away from the dems or at least help them stay home on voting day.
There is and has been Russian interference and propaganda. I think we agree on that. As to how much the democrats have been exaggerating it is where we may not see quite eye to eye.
As to covid19, I think Trump has done a poor job of handling it, and although may he may have a few unfair criticisms that fact that he has and is bungling it is no hoax.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10778

Post by Keating »

With what we know about the Flynn case now, it also looks increasingly likely to me that while the Russians posted FaceBook memes, the rest of the story was completely fabricated by the Obama administration with the purpose of hobbling this one.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10779

Post by Keating »

From the outside, it also looks like New York state bungled the WuFlu response the worst. They certainly handled the optics better, though.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10780

Post by Brive1987 »

KiwiInOz wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Fuck.

There’s strong evidence emerging that all countries were already ‘around the curve’ for infections prior to gong into lock down.

Good podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/t ... 0474373435

Um. I doubt it. That not how virulent infections work.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10781

Post by Brive1987 »


Driftless
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10782

Post by Driftless »

Has anyone made MAGA facemasks yet?

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10783

Post by Brive1987 »


ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10784

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Brive1987 wrote:
Why are deaths rising and falling from day to day within each week in both countries?

Brive1987
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10785

Post by Brive1987 »

God wills it?

screwtape
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10786

Post by screwtape »

Brive1987 wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Fuck.

There’s strong evidence emerging that all countries were already ‘around the curve’ for infections prior to gong into lock down.

Good podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/t ... 0474373435

Um. I doubt it. That not how virulent infections work.
It's hard to believe that anyone could look at those graphs and believe that there were no other factors at work. Making viral transmission much harder would triple death rates? - hardly the first explanation that comes to mind. Maybe they might consider that Swedes are healthier than people from New Jersey, or have better health care, or reduced population density, or maybe they actually even followed social distancing rules rather than taking a perverse pleasure in ignoring them? Even the "around the curve" idea would imply that Sweden had got the pandemic largely over and done with, without even noticing it had happened. Come on.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10787

Post by screwtape »

MarcusAu wrote: Since the FT popped up (so to speak) - is anyone worried about the malign influence of 'Big Tittie' on society?

Starting at 22 min for the curious...

You might enjoy taking a look at http://www.skepticalob.com/ where a retired obstetrician rants and raves about the unsafe practices that have entered fashionable birthing and child care. It started as a response to the amateur midwife home birth movement and the growing pile of tiny corpses it created. Then she moved on to 'lactivism' and the numbers of babies harmed or killed by malnourishment under the misguided belief that not only is breast best, but even a breast that is failing to provide any milk is better than the evil bottle. We are talking of religious levels of belief in unchallengeable dogma here, now enforced by policies and hospital administrators who want to look as if they hold all the right and proper opinions. Example article.

Driftless
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10788

Post by Driftless »

screwtape wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: Since the FT popped up (so to speak) - is anyone worried about the malign influence of 'Big Tittie' on society?

Starting at 22 min for the curious...

You might enjoy taking a look at http://www.skepticalob.com/ where a retired obstetrician rants and raves about the unsafe practices that have entered fashionable birthing and child care. It started as a response to the amateur midwife home birth movement and the growing pile of tiny corpses it created. Then she moved on to 'lactivism' and the numbers of babies harmed or killed by malnourishment under the misguided belief that not only is breast best, but even a breast that is failing to provide any milk is better than the evil bottle. We are talking of religious levels of belief in unchallengeable dogma here, now enforced by policies and hospital administrators who want to look as if they hold all the right and proper opinions. Example article.
If you are going to breastfeed you can't wait a few days and then try, you have to start immediately. I think the issue is when do you acknowledge that it isn't working and switch to formula. Don't the formula makers give free samples to new mothers? If you start with that then you are stuck with that. I think that's another reason the breastfeeding advocates are in early and push hard to get breastfeeding started. Again, the issue is when do you admit defeat. Using your own beast milk is cheaper than formula, so if you are poor it is better to breastfeed if you can.

My girlfriend's former mother-in-law and sister-in-law never breastfed their children. They thought it was odd and a bit sexual. The sister-in-law even asked her if she was getting off on it. So there are multiple reasons to breastfeed or not.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10789

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Keating wrote: From the outside, it also looks like New York state bungled the WuFlu response the worst. They certainly handled the optics better, though.
It helps with the optics when you have your own TV network.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10790

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Ran a little test on FB. When I went to post this:

Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

this came up:
Stasi_Factcheck.png
(91.38 KiB) Downloaded 85 times

Now, admittedly, the author is a bit of a quack. But then I post:

Homeopathy medicines may prove boon in fight against coronavirus: Experts



and FB lets that one go through with no censorship.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10791

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Deaths per million:
Sweden 343
Vancouver Island 14
Proof that lockdown works?

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10792

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Keating wrote: opti
#cuomoforgod

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10793

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Keating wrote: From the outside, it also looks like New York state bungled the WuFlu response the worst. They certainly handled the optics better, though.
#cuomoforgod

(so godlike I had to post it twice)

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10794

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:52 pm
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Russian interference as a major issue was invented as a pretext to go after Trump.
So you are saying that the Russians didn't try to interfere in the American election? Another democrat hoax like covid19?
Notice that I included the last line saying their is no evidence that Russia has worked to further the Biden (sex) allegation. It is certainly an odd coincidence that Reade writes fawning praise about Putin that sounds like romantic fiction and one of her lawyers was actually on Putin's payroll, but as the article notes there has been no evidence this current bimbo eruption was orchestrated by Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_i ... _elections
No, I didn't say they didn't try to interfere. They're always interfering. I said that Russian interference as a MAJOR issue was a creation to facilitate the neutralisation of Trump. Guy from Crowdstrike has admitted that there is no clear evidence that the Russians hacked any DNC servers. The people who did the study revealing the massive campaign of Russian trolling are known bullshit artists with something to sell. Russians seem to have assumed Clinton would win just as everyone else did. The Russia angle has been blown up out of all proportion. One of the real Russia scandals, which is really a US scandal, is that the Clinton campaign gave money to a company who then paid Christopher Steele to pay some people to say silly things about Trump. They then hawked said BS around without admitting where it came from. We now know that Clinton knew all about where it came from. The other scandal is that the FBI used this porn to spy on US citizens when they knew it was bogus, and contrary to the legal geniuses who assured us it was all conspiracy theories the FBI did lie to the FISA court. This is a real, serious problem for a democracy and asking where " Nancy touched you" or if it's a "Democrat hoax like covid19" doesn't negate it.

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10795

Post by free thoughtpolice »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:52 pm
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Russian interference as a major issue was invented as a pretext to go after Trump.
So you are saying that the Russians didn't try to interfere in the American election? Another democrat hoax like covid19?
Notice that I included the last line saying their is no evidence that Russia has worked to further the Biden (sex) allegation. It is certainly an odd coincidence that Reade writes fawning praise about Putin that sounds like romantic fiction and one of her lawyers was actually on Putin's payroll, but as the article notes there has been no evidence this current bimbo eruption was orchestrated by Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_i ... _elections
No, I didn't say they didn't try to interfere. They're always interfering. I said that Russian interference as a MAJOR issue was a creation to facilitate the neutralisation of Trump. Guy from Crowdstrike has admitted that there is no clear evidence that the Russians hacked any DNC servers. The people who did the study revealing the massive campaign of Russian trolling are known bullshit artists with something to sell. Russians seem to have assumed Clinton would win just as everyone else did. The Russia angle has been blown up out of all proportion. One of the real Russia scandals, which is really a US scandal, is that the Clinton campaign gave money to a company who then paid Christopher Steele to pay some people to say silly things about Trump. They then hawked said BS around without admitting where it came from. We now know that Clinton knew all about where it came from. The other scandal is that the FBI used this porn to spy on US citizens when they knew it was bogus, and contrary to the legal geniuses who assured us it was all conspiracy theories the FBI did lie to the FISA court. This is a real, serious problem for a democracy and asking where " Nancy touched you" or if it's a "Democrat hoax like covid19" doesn't negate it.
The Steele dossier was only released after the election. It was far from the only piece of information that was provided to the FISA court and it was revealed to the judges at the time to be campaign research. You are just repeating Trump disinformation.
A Dutch firm was able to link hacking activity to the IRS troll farm in St. Petersburg with a higher degree of certainty than Crowdstrike was able to.
Also:
https://time.com/5565991/russia-influen ... -election/
Another link:
https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-ind ... ancy-bear/

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10796

Post by screwtape »

Driftless wrote: If you are going to breastfeed you can't wait a few days and then try, you have to start immediately. I think the issue is when do you acknowledge that it isn't working and switch to formula. Don't the formula makers give free samples to new mothers? If you start with that then you are stuck with that. I think that's another reason the breastfeeding advocates are in early and push hard to get breastfeeding started. Again, the issue is when do you admit defeat. Using your own beast milk is cheaper than formula, so if you are poor it is better to breastfeed if you can.

My girlfriend's former mother-in-law and sister-in-law never breastfed their children. They thought it was odd and a bit sexual. The sister-in-law even asked her if she was getting off on it. So there are multiple reasons to breastfeed or not.
Yes, you have to start immediately for well-understood hormonal reasons seated in the pituitary gland, and those who want to breastfeed are encouraged to do it. The problems arise with:
1. Those new mothers who do not wish to breastfeed. They are practically reported to CPS at birth. You HAVE to breast feed in today's hospitals, and will be shamed into it even if you don't want to start, and shamed into continuing even if your baby is starving, jaundiced and having the seizures of advanced kernicterus neonatorum (the Wikipedia page on that condition has been cleansed of any mention of dehydration or calorie insufficiency).
2. Yes, manufacturers of formula used to make free samples available - why wouldn't they, as profit-driven businesses? Most hospitals forbid free samples now, and the few that keep a stock of formula keep it under lock and key. The belief is that without the easy out of formula, all mothers will succeed and climb into the broad, sunlit uplands of breast-feeding glory. The fact remains that babies have always died of lactation failure. Just because we choose to remove choice from new mothers does not change the death rate from such lactation failure.
3. Sexual? Tell them not to be weird. How did our ancestors do it? It worked for most, and still does. The problem is it doesn't always work, and those babies can die. We used to allow formula feeds, but now even those babies must die in the cause of 'breast is best'.

I've seen babies born in an advanced western first world country that haven't regained their birthweight by three months of age - and if you know nothing of babies, the standard is to regain birthweight by one week of age. Fretful, irritable, crying 24/7 (or worse still, listless and silent as they no longer have the energy to cry and death is scarily imminent). The public health nurse and 'lactation consultant', along with the loons on the local Facebook page are all telling the mother to keep up the breast feeding. I suggest supplementing with formula, and for the first time in her life, the baby sleeps and is satisfied, starts to regain her weight and grow. And her IQ is going to be 20 points less than it could have been. Which would appear to me to be child abuse of the most serious kind.

Maternal, perinatal and infant mortality were the best ever seen in the world in some western countries recently. Some of those deaths cannot be prevented, no matter how hard we try, how skilled we are, or however much we spend. But now we see rising death rates for mothers and babies as a result of fashionable but uneducated idiots encouraging home delivery after multiple cæsarian sections, and babies are to starve to death because someone thinks that Big Formula is evil. Just as with vaccines, we quickly forget just how good we have it. Having forgotten, we take several romantic steps backwards and kill some mothers and a lot of babies. It's sad.

And why is breast feeding so revered? There are a few hard facts: the colostrum contains maternal antibodies and a baby consuming it will gain passive/temporary immunity to a few infections as a result of consuming it (certain). Mothers gain some small degree of protection against breast cancer (certain but very small), ovarian cancer (not certain), post-partum depression (highly questionable), and maybe they lose some of their pregnancy weight (not certain and kind of selfish if your baby becomes a waitress rather than an engineer). A certain fact that is touted more often than all others: Your baby will be smarter (certain, but small). A meta-analysis of 17 studies showed a 3.4 point gain from breast feeding, but worryingly showed that studies that controlled for maternal IQ only had a 2.6 point gain. The reason that is worrying is this - trigger warning: I am about to say things known and completely accepted in intelligence research communities, however offensive they may be to blank-slaters - one's IQ is genetically determined. When you are a zygote, you have potential in this respect as in others. Nothing that we know of can increase the theoretical maximum you can achieve, either in intelligence, or strength, or endurance, or whatever else you can think of. Lots of things can prevent you achieving your potential maximum. Some things can delay it, somethings can help it along. What we think of as perfect child-rearing (lots of love, proper nutrition, intellectual stimulation with Mozart, reading and books) will show up clearly as advantageous to pre-school kids when tested for IQ. And then biological reality comes along, and all those expensive and hard-won advantages shrink. The advantages allowed it to develop sooner, but not to blossom wider. By the time you are 30 years of age, your IQ will be roughly what the mean of your parents would suggest (allowing for some regression), no matter how they had brought you up. Yes, they could have made you an imbecile with poor nutrition, head injuries and social isolation, but if they did an average job, you will have the predicted IQ.
The other thing you need to know is about study design is this - how shall we say a child has a higher or lower IQ than 'expected'? From what I have just said, a study that would mean something ought to match subjects and controls (I'm assuming you understand 'match', 'subject' and 'control' here) for paternal IQ, maternal IQ, and, almost impossible, early childhood environment. If we could match thousands of subject breast-fed children with thousands of control formula-fed children, so that they all had both parents of the same IQ, same birth order, no pre-natal complications, no intra-partum difficulties, no neonatal illnesses, no serious infancy issues, and exactly the same amount of parental care and involvement, AND ignored all pre-school IQ tests and waited until we could see the final results at age 30, we might begin to get an idea of whether breast milk or formula made a difference. All we have are many studies that have not controlled for maternal IQ, none that have controlled for paternal IQ, and none that have controlled for any of the other variables of enormous importance (especially waiting for the final outcome of IQ as an adult) I have described above. If you bothered to read all that, I commiserate with your sense of depression. No one has done anything like it, nor is it likely anyone will - start today with the best of intentions, and publish in thirty-plus years, which doesn't sound attractive for career advancement, especially when objective intelligence research is considered disreputable. Combine all that with a sense of the imperfect accuracy of an IQ test, and you start to see 2 points as simply noise. I was not breast fed, nor much loved by my peculiar personality-disordered mother. If I lost two of my IQ points, I bet I'd still do the Times Cryptic in less than 10 minutes as I currently do each day. Two points mean very little at best, nothing otherwise. IQ tests are valid and meaningful, but are not an exact science.

So is there any justification in taking away valid choices from new mothers in the name of health and IQ benefits? I can't see any evidence worth believing, and I'd be delighted to find some. Currently, it seems to be done to make some people feel good, and better than the rest of us. Those that have enjoyed successful breast feeding (or home birth, or whatever else) seem to need to crow about it by enforcing the same risky choices on everyone else. And if we do it on (their) faith and some babies are damaged, and some babies die as a result? I believe that is legally defined as 'assault' and 'murder' respectively. As always, an extreme case proves the point. Let us imagine a new mother was saved from dying of breast cancer 50 years after her baby was born. In order to save herself, her baby had to die. What would our law say about someone who killed a baby for some personal gain, even one so small that it was not felt until 50 years later? And what if the baby died during an attempt to gain it a couple of completely theoretical IQ points? This is all shit. Utter shit. How dare anyone harm and kill babies to make themselves feel virtuous?

As depressing as all that human nature is, it is nice to get cross about something that doesn't involve a coronavirus. Let us all hope that the new science being fed to us about that virus is far more rational, reasonable and dispassionately accurate than the old, long-studied, and well-funded, yet politicized, science about breast feeding. Yeah, well.

Sorry, FT, for becoming a new provider of a wall of text!

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10797

Post by Lsuoma »

Great post, Screwy - I read all of yours, even Walls o' Text like that...

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10798

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Lsuoma wrote: Great post, Screwy - I read all of yours, even Walls o' Text like that...
#screwtapeforgod

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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10799

Post by Brive1987 »

screwtape wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Fuck.

There’s strong evidence emerging that all countries were already ‘around the curve’ for infections prior to gong into lock down.

Good podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/t ... 0474373435

Um. I doubt it. That not how virulent infections work.
It's hard to believe that anyone could look at those graphs and believe that there were no other factors at work. Making viral transmission much harder would triple death rates? - hardly the first explanation that comes to mind. Maybe they might consider that Swedes are healthier than people from New Jersey, or have better health care, or reduced population density, or maybe they actually even followed social distancing rules rather than taking a perverse pleasure in ignoring them? Even the "around the curve" idea would imply that Sweden had got the pandemic largely over and done with, without even noticing it had happened. Come on.
It’s hard to believe anyone would focus on the y axis scales. The point is whether the general curve dynamic was impacted by lockdown.

justinvacula
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!

#10800

Post by justinvacula »

New from Cathy Young:

Tara Reade’s Dubious Claims and Shifting Stories Show the Limits of #BelieveWomen

https://quillette.com/2020/05/14/tara-r ... ievewomen/

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