Pitchguest wrote: ↑
I've had a few chuckles seeing just how much New Zealand is bending over backwards to cater to Muslims in the wake of the tragedy.
The prime minister, as the constable, even wore a shawl in "solidarity." They might as well make the whole country Muslim and invoke Sharia - that would really solidify their relationship!
To be fair, NZ would do it for any community that had been targeted in such a way. We are good like that. It's the CoE-style of a secular society - people will go back to living their lives after a nice cup of tea (until the next local or international barbarity ruffles the surface).
New Zealand as I see it are showing their strength by the classy, generous behavior they are showing to the victims of this horrible crime. That attitude will encourage the muslim minority to blend with the larger community more effectively then a less generous and welcoming approach that would lead to their community being more isolated and resentful.
Sure. I just don't see why classy and generous behaviour means you feel obligated to don a symbol of oppression to millions of religious adherents just so you could show a bit of virtue.
Pitchguest wrote: ↑
I've had a few chuckles seeing just how much New Zealand is bending over backwards to cater to Muslims in the wake of the tragedy.
The prime minister, as the constable, even wore a shawl in "solidarity." They might as well make the whole country Muslim and invoke Sharia - that would really solidify their relationship!
To be fair, NZ would do it for any community that had been targeted in such a way. We are good like that. It's the CoE-style of a secular society - people will go back to living their lives after a nice cup of tea (until the next local or international barbarity ruffles the surface).
New Zealand as I see it are showing their strength by the classy, generous behavior they are showing to the victims of this horrible crime. That attitude will encourage the muslim minority to blend with the larger community more effectively then a less generous and welcoming approach that would lead to their community being more isolated and resentful.
Sure. I just don't see why classy and generous behaviour means you feel obligated to don a symbol of oppression to millions of religious adherents just so you could show a bit of virtue.
Lsuoma wrote: ↑
That response from FTP reeks of bend-over-and-take-it-up-the-council, BTW.
Kind of think that his "encourage the muslim minority to blend with the larger community" - given the manifest unlikelihood of that ever happening - has to be seen as some pretty pointed sarcasm.
Others, particularly those not from Canuckistan, may "experience that differently" ...
Embarrassed to be a New Zealander today. Watched BBC coverage of the ceremony thingy, camera pans of a sea of....men. While the women are segregated and invisible at the back, in their burkas & scarves. Holy fuck, how can these people not understand it is possible to empathise and show solidarity without looking like a bunch of medieval twats & promoting a backwards ideology.
HunnyBunny wrote: ↑
Embarrassed to be a New Zealander today. Watched BBC coverage of the ceremony thingy, camera pans of a sea of....men. While the women are segregated and invisible at the back, in their burkas & scarves. Holy fuck, how can these people not understand it is possible to empathise and show solidarity without looking like a bunch of medieval twats & promoting a backwards ideology.
Women are expected to sit in the back, and not speak at a marae (a tribal meeting, the NZ equivalent of a pow-wow, for those not in the know). Happens quite a bit as politicians have been signalling their 'wokeness' to their constituencies even before 'wokeness' was a thing.
Caused quite a bit of con-TRO-versy or con-TROV-ersy (I forget how to pronounce it - E-ther or i-ther will do) back in the day when Helen Clark was PM. (I think she can be included in the general category of women).
I find this pandering and submission (ironically) to Islam in NZ right now to be frightening if I'm honest. Not taking away any sympathy for the victims of last weeks shooting but the complete overreaction by kiwis is astoundingly stupid IMO and I very much doubt this would have played out for any other demographic. Would Ardern have donned traditional Maori attire and rubbed noses with religious leaders if this had happened to them? Maybe but I doubt she would have been such a sickly sweet virtue signaller and would anyone be facing 14 years in prison if they'd shared the footage of it online? Lets be honest here, if this had been a church the story would be chip paper by now.
You may well have a reasonably placid Islamic community in New Zealand at the moment after all they make up just 1.2% of the population (wiki) but wait till it becomes 4% + and they become a protected species. Appease Islam at your peril, have you learn thing not from Europe?
HunnyBunny wrote: ↑
Embarrassed to be a New Zealander today. Watched BBC coverage of the ceremony thingy, camera pans of a sea of....men. While the women are segregated and invisible at the back, in their burkas & scarves. Holy fuck, how can these people not understand it is possible to empathise and show solidarity without looking like a bunch of medieval twats & promoting a backwards ideology.
Women are expected to sit in the back, and not speak at a marae (a tribal meeting, the NZ equivalent of a pow-wow, for those not in the know). Happens quite a bit as politicians have been signalling their 'wokeness' to their constituencies even before 'wokeness' was a thing.
Caused quite a bit of con-TRO-versy or con-TROV-ersy (I forget how to pronounce it - E-ther or i-ther will do) back in the day when Helen Clark was PM. (I think she can be included in the general category of women).
Yep, and in the mid-90s when I went back to uni at Waikato for a spell, we complained about the treatment of women on the campus marae. It was the beginnings of wokeness culture and we got told to fuck off, women were respected in different ways and the problem was ours for not decentering our cultural experience blah blah blah. That different sort of respect is why domestic violence is at an all-time high in NZ I expect.
It's the smugness of it all that gets me, it's always been a thing in kiwiland, but it's reached epidemic proportions this last week.
Lost contact with him after I left but there was a facebook update (back when I was still on it) - that he had changed quite a bit. Never spoke much after the transition.
I've had a few chuckles seeing just how much New Zealand is bending over backwards to cater to Muslims in the wake of the tragedy.
The prime minister, as the constable, even wore a shawl in "solidarity." They might as well make the whole country Muslim and invoke Sharia - that would really solidify their relationship!
I know, it's vomit inducing in some ways. It's very important that nobody overreacts after an Islamist attack, not all muslims and all that. Now it's all people everywhere politically right of Owen Jones. The poor muslims must be protected against the nasty white man. Those whites can't restrain themselves from going on a killing spree upon hearing a whiff of anti-globalist rhetoric. Not that I would begrudge innocent Muslims the sympathy or solidarity of fellow citizens. It's the stark hypocrisy of it all.
New Zealand bans sales of Jordan Peterson books in response to Christchurch.
They are being very, very stupid. You'd think they were trying to encourage more attacks. There is no better way to inflame violent extremists than to cut of all means of public expression of their views and the views of moderates who criticise the things that they object to.
I hate to say it, but the very first thing that jumps to my mind when I see a woman in Islamic garb is whether her clitoris is intact.
I realize that to some this is one of those shocking admissions, utterance of which merits some type of indictment. Sort of like the revelation that Liam Neeson went on an unsuccessful killing spree after his sister was raped. They're candid, inconsequential (free) expressions, but they should be dealt with. I think they're the cornerstone of progress.
I don't know if this is well known. It's new to me though. Seems those Justice Democrat types are more dangerous and sneakier than they appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-3_FGyhg4k
Pitchguest wrote: ↑
Is it? The killer isn't a white supremacist. He isn't even a white nationalist. Not really. If he is, genuinely, a card carrying member, he might have mentioned Richard Spencer, or David Duke, in his manifesto; the usual suspects. Even though their culpability would have remained the same (nil), it would at least have been somewhat more believable in the big scheme of things. Instead, he mentions Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens and Spyro the Dragon. (Spyro of all things! Spyro!) He calls Trump a "renewed symbol of white identity." Before he shot up the mosque, he livestreamed himself on Facebook urging his viewers to "subscribe to PewDiePie".
He didn't even mention Tommy Robinson. I bet the likes of Mike Stuchbery, Hope Not Hate and Sadiq Khan must be furious that a load of muslims were killed and the murderer didn't even once mention Tommy Robinson.
Tigzy wrote: ↑
He didn't even mention Tommy Robinson. I bet the likes of Mike Stuchbery, Hope Not Hate and Sadiq Khan must be furious that a load of muslims were killed and the murderer didn't even once mention Tommy Robinson.
That didn't stop fatso.
Now look here Oz, I know we sent you our theiving scumbags 200 years ago but there was no need to start sending us fat cunts, take him back.
Brive1987 wrote: ↑
I prefer the old FTP. This new one creeps me out.
Aw shucks gang. I try not to be my vicious, poisonous self and I get this abuse. Allow me to try harder.
Although I am favor of pandering to the muslim community at least a bit in the wake of this terrible crime, I do agree we need to do it in moderation lest we anger the conservative types and force them to reply with more violence. :romance-grouphug:
free thoughtpolice wrote: ↑
After all, we all have a lot more in common than we have differences. I'm considering writing a manifesto of peace in the culture class thread.
Tigzy wrote: ↑
He didn't even mention Tommy Robinson. I bet the likes of Mike Stuchbery, Hope Not Hate and Sadiq Khan must be furious that a load of muslims were killed and the murderer didn't even once mention Tommy Robinson.
That didn't stop fatso.
Now look here Oz, I know we sent you our theiving scumbags 200 years ago but there was no need to start sending us fat cunts, take him back.
Yeah, he's annoyed all right. Bet your arse the thumb-headed cunt read that manifesto from top to bottom, fair horny for any mention of TR. This is just Mike trying to relieve some of the tension from having a serious case of blue balls.
Honestly, I can genuinely see him finishing that manifeso and going, 'Fuck, not even one mention of Tommy Robinson? Come on man!"
Looking through those Twitter posts by Nick Monroe, it's pretty interesting how NZ continually ups the ante. First it's The Press printing only the word "peace" in Arabic on the front page. Next one of the Muslim victims telling the media New Zealand is "[their] country" and telling others to "get out." Then there's an article in Stuff.co.nz from 2014 that was just deleted outright because it showed evidence of a New Zealander converting and becoming radicalised after attending one of the mosques that was shot up. They are really doing some intense damage control.
And in Canada, which shouldn't be such a surprise by now because it's sodding Canada, an ex-muslim got his speech cancelled at a university in Calgary.
Well done. I'm sure the killer is fucking ecstatic.
They'll also wear a poppy on ANZAC Day, but at no other time. It's symbolism and showing empathy and support for a community in distress.
Sure, it might even come back in fashion, but you are unlikely to see many reverts from this.
I think your piss and vinegar is misdirected.
The poppy doesn’t have quite the ideological / cultural resonance as the hijab 🧕 or potato sack.
The idea that we are in anyway at “one” with Islam is a dangerous way to virtue signal. There is a values gulf that should be acknowledged and respected. Maybe a desert rose in the lapel would have worked?
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
Pitchguest wrote: ↑
Looking through those Twitter posts by Nick Monroe, it's pretty interesting how NZ continually ups the ante. First it's The Press printing only the word "peace" in Arabic on the front page. Next one of the Muslim victims telling the media New Zealand is "[their] country" and telling others to "get out." Then there's an article in Stuff.co.nz from 2014 that was just deleted outright because it showed evidence of a New Zealander converting and becoming radicalised after attending one of the mosques that was shot up. They are really doing some intense damage control.
And in Canada, which shouldn't be such a surprise by now because it's sodding Canada, an ex-muslim got his speech cancelled at a university in Calgary.
Well done. I'm sure the killer is fucking ecstatic.
Does the number of white Muslim terrorists outnumber the number of white supremacist terrorists? I'm sure it does.
Considering the tiny numbers of white Muslims that would be an amazing testimony to the ability of Islam to generate terrorists compared to the ability of white supremacism to generate terrorists?
“... have quite the third party ideological / cultural resonance as the hijab 🧕 or potato sack.”
Might be a clearer expression.
I’m getting the feeling people are generally in favour of condemning murder. But not to a level disproportionate with the way Islamic terrorism is treated. And the condemnation should follow a similar expressive mode. Plus the condemnation probably shouldn’t appropriate symbolism which itself is divisive and antithetical to Western values. It’s bad enough it was done. But for the PM, Parliament, police and newsrooms to enthusiastically follow suite is kind of disturbing in itself.
Katie's right. Fair is fair. I expect the next time there is an Islamist killing for Muslim women to shuck their hijabs and burkas and mix freely with men in a show of solidarity.
Brive1987 wrote: ↑
“... have quite the third party ideological / cultural resonance as the hijab 🧕 or potato sack.”
Might be a clearer expression.
I’m getting the feeling people are generally in favour of condemning murder. But not to a level disproportionate with the way Islamic terrorism is treated. And the condemnation should follow a similar expressive mode. Plus the condemnation probably shouldn’t appropriate symbolism which itself is divisive and antithetical to Western values. It’s bad enough it was done. But for the PM, Parliament, police and newsrooms to enthusiastically follow suite is kind of disturbing in itself.
It points to an underlying issue with society.
I am sure that it is actually a response to the perceived second order issue of Islamophobia and a belief in fair go, driven by empathy. I suspect that it will help dial down some surficial tensions in places like Turkey (where Turdogan has backed down on his initial rhetoric) and UAE (or Dubai?) where they plastered the image of a foreign female Prime Minister on a skyscraper. Soft power.
KiwiInOz wrote: ↑
Katie's right. Fair is fair. I expect the next time there is an Islamist killing for Muslim women to shuck their hijabs and burkas and mix freely with men in a show of solidarity.
That might not be a good idea. It could stir up uncontrollable lust and might get them raped.
Brive1987 wrote: ↑
“... have quite the third party ideological / cultural resonance as the hijab 🧕 or potato sack.”
Might be a clearer expression.
I’m getting the feeling people are generally in favour of condemning murder. But not to a level disproportionate with the way Islamic terrorism is treated. And the condemnation should follow a similar expressive mode. Plus the condemnation probably shouldn’t appropriate symbolism which itself is divisive and antithetical to Western values. It’s bad enough it was done. But for the PM, Parliament, police and newsrooms to enthusiastically follow suite is kind of disturbing in itself.
It points to an underlying issue with society.
I am sure that it is actually a response to the perceived second order issue of Islamophobia and a belief in fair go, driven by empathy. I suspect that it will help dial down some surficial tensions in places like Turkey (where Turdogan has backed down on his initial rhetoric) and UAE (or Dubai?) where they plastered the image of a foreign female Prime Minister on a skyscraper. Soft power.
Soft power and appeasement tread uncomfortably close parallel paths. I hope NZ knows what it is doing.
Our SAS are not appeasing in certain sectors. But nevertheless, the culture is changing strongly to a syncretism of Maori and Pasifika Euro culture and is highly unlikely to become part of the Caliphate any time soon. SBW isn't that popular.
KiwiInOz wrote: ↑
Our SAS are not appeasing in certain sectors. But nevertheless, the culture is changing strongly to a syncretism of Maori and Pasifika Euro culture and is highly unlikely to become part of the Caliphate any time soon. SBW isn't that popular.
To an outsider, the Southern debacle, Jacinda and now this looks like a lurch to the social progressive left. Though I’m sure sharia is not the focused goal.
I’m also sure, per your comment, that there are more complex undercurrents.
free thoughtpolice wrote: ↑
Jen McC Must feel rejected, and like her, I blame you.
She's the one who went and got engaged. Sure, it was a long-distance, no-interaction relationship -- more of a creepy unilateral obsession, really -- but I think we just needed to give time to blossom.