My case is at some point Bob Price is going to die and Carrier is actually okay on a lot of that Jesus is a myth stuff (his whole I can prove it with maths is stupid as fuck).
here's a joke:InfraRedBucket wrote: ↑ https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/upl ... 00x480.jpg
RCarrier : " Two coffees , please"
Bartender: "Sorry, we're out of cream for your coffee"
RC: "It's Ok, I've brought my own."
B:"Second thoughts, I'm outa coffee too."
Sure!
Not a particularly good idea, but an idea nonetheless (also, no hokey Bayesian thinking).Richard Carrier wrote:"It might be TMI, so don’t read on if you don’t want to hear sex stuff about me, but I’ll say this because I think it’s important to your point: I’m a semen fetishist, so I enjoy all kinds of semen play with women, including facials, which I find quite sexy, provided she is into it. And in point of fact, many of my girlfriends are not (though some are), and I never expect them to be. So my example above is reversed in this case: they know what I like and why, but also that I’d never ask them to do it, much less pressure them to. And that doesn’t leave me disappointed, either, because what we are into together is perfectly exciting."
https://www.patreon.com/robertmprice/memberships If you haven't already you should be giving the old dude at least a dollar a month. I do and I wish I could give him more. He produces and shares a lot of entertainment/knowledge.
I honestly have never really thought all that hard about it. I don't think it matters but I do find it interesting. But I beleive this is a minority opinion that is worth having around.MarcusAu wrote: ↑But even he says of his mythicist position that it is the minority one. I've heard him describe it as the veil of history hangs so thickly across the ages that we cannot really say anything about the character of Jesus (if there was such a person) at all - or at least words to that effect. Which sounds pretty reasonable to my (inexpert) ears.
That said - I don't really hang my (belief) hat on the existence / non-existence of the historical person of Jesus.
The little hobbit is no Hitchens but he honestly isn't bad in a debate setting.
I am not going to pretend I am an expert on Carrier and all his arguments. I know his "because math" is about as retarded as you can get. Doesn't mean some of the other things he points out (Price name drops him from time to time in a positive light for example) are complete shit too.
Are you saying you want to hang out?Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑You need to get out more.So yeah he's the 3rd string QB but sometimes that's all you got.
We will always miss heydays of yore, back when the Four Horsemen were riding high and readily available on paper at Borders Books.
Well, hey, look at that.Ape+lust wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:11 pmCarrier's gearing up to do one of his bar tours next month. It's a strange thing for a public intellectual to do, driving to liquor dumps in random cities and sleeping it off on strange couches.
But then, you remember he's a playa with a nationwide harem. They need refreshing with Carrier Goo once in a while.
https://imgur.com/DkTi1M3.jpg
Wait til you see him in a mass debate setting. Be sure to bring a towel, though.
Man, solo: Good evening Paul, Mary.Snapfingers wrote: ↑ You got it wrong. Let me demonstrate how these things work for the patron:
https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/upl ... 00x480.jpg
*magnificence snipped*
Price has produced a lot of good work of his own, as well as useful digests of the work of the Dutch Radicals, Tübingen School, and contemporaries such as Eisenman and Einhorn. Before putting forth his own crackpot theories (which range far beyond just a misapplication of bayesian analysis), Carrier piggy-backed off Price's work, which made him sound somewhat reasonable. Carrier, however, seems either completely ignorant or dismissive of the bulk of philological & theological study done on the historicity of the NT.comhcinc wrote: ↑ I am not going to pretend I am an expert on Carrier and all his arguments. I know his "because math" is about as retarded as you can get. Doesn't mean some of the other things he points out (Price name drops him from time to time in a positive light for example) are complete shit too.
I'm always eager to talk about the historicity of the NT. In addition to Price's books and his online summaries of 19th century 'mythicists', I'd recommend Doherty, and the above-mentioned Detering (most of his writing is in German, but his The Fabricated Paul is available in English, on Kindle, and well worth the c. $13). The Vridar blog is chock=full of fascinating material, though Neil Godfrey can be a bit of a twat at times, and continues to associate with Carrier despite having extensively shredded his scholarship. Rodger Parvus' series at Vridar, A Simonian Origin for Christianity, is must=read:Are you saying you want to hang out?Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑You need to get out more.So yeah he's the 3rd string QB but sometimes that's all you got.
And truth be told he struck out with the cheerleader squad. :twatson:That's just for starters. Carrier's not the 3rd string QB; he's not even on the practice squad.
Like all 3rd string QBs.free thoughtpolice wrote: ↑And truth be told he struck out with the cheerleader squad. :twatson:That's just for starters. Carrier's not the 3rd string QB; he's not even on the practice squad.
Brother Nathanael has lost his edge lately and is getting a bit repetitive. I blame the Jews.Hey bear are you still following that crazy brother Jonathan or whatever?
It must be hard to keep up such batshit insanity all the time. Gotta give him a pass every now and then.free thoughtpolice wrote: ↑Brother Nathanael has lost his edge lately and is getting a bit repetitive. I blame the Jews.Hey bear are you still following that crazy brother Jonathan or whatever?
TBH I think the conversation has moved on from the days of the 4. The rise of the SJWs and the emergence of Jordan Peterson has given a lot of atheists pause to reconsider the possible consequences of going cold turkey on religion and to think a little more deeply about how tightly religious legacy is woven into even secular Western thought. In Peterson's latest Rogan appearance he made a good point about one of the positive effects of new media. In the past media discussion was limited to brief skirmishes, often producing more heat than light. Now we have access to 3 hour discussions which we can view at will. Traditional MSM have been left in the dust.d4m10n wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:35 amWe will always miss heydays of yore, back when the Four Horsemen were riding high and readily available on paper at Borders Books.
That said, it's not nearly over. National events are still happening.
And let's not forget freelance pub tours... :mrgreen:
Well, hey, look at that.Ape+lust wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:11 pmCarrier's gearing up to do one of his bar tours next month. It's a strange thing for a public intellectual to do, driving to liquor dumps in random cities and sleeping it off on strange couches.
But then, you remember he's a playa with a nationwide harem. They need refreshing with Carrier Goo once in a while.
https://imgur.com/DkTi1M3.jpg
One-52 Bar & Grill is local to OKC.
Now I have to decide whether or not it would be safe to bring a date.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oKIPy51 ... /giphy.gifThreeFlangedJavis wrote: ↑ and the emergence of Jordan Peterson has given a lot of atheists pause
CSICon looks fun because it is essentially TAM, but AA turned SJW. CFI turned SJW. FFRF. American Humanists. The Reason Rally. Skepticon. Mythicist Milwaukee is interesting, but it is more about looking at SJW shit in an open light.d4m10n wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:35 amWe will always miss heydays of yore, back when the Four Horsemen were riding high and readily available on paper at Borders Books.
That said, it's not nearly over. National events are still happening.
And let's not forget freelance pub tours... :mrgreen:
Well, hey, look at that.Ape+lust wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:11 pmCarrier's gearing up to do one of his bar tours next month. It's a strange thing for a public intellectual to do, driving to liquor dumps in random cities and sleeping it off on strange couches.
But then, you remember he's a playa with a nationwide harem. They need refreshing with Carrier Goo once in a while.
https://imgur.com/DkTi1M3.jpg
One-52 Bar & Grill is local to OKC.
Now I have to decide whether or not it would be safe to bring a date.
See his recap of the talks with Sam Harris. I see nothing religious in the supernatural sense in Jordan Peterson's position:comhcinc wrote: ↑https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oKIPy51 ... /giphy.gifThreeFlangedJavis wrote: ↑ and the emergence of Jordan Peterson has given a lot of atheists pause
The only atheist I have seen say anything about Peterson is the bible reloaded and they seem to just enjoy mocking the shit out of him.
No. From what I have seen at least he is some old Canadian who is just saying stuff everyone already knows. At most he is a con artist.
I am pretty sure you still haven't even cleaned your room.....comhcinc wrote: ↑No. From what I have seen at least he is some old Canadian who is just saying stuff everyone already knows. At most he is a con artist.
I can think of better ways to spend my time.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l0QPbEVEBl44g/giphy.gif
Is black a colour? Is zero a number? Kind of difficult to argue that the absence of a sex - male or female - is a sex itself. So "bisexual" would seem incongruous, inconsistent, and a non sequitur at best.
Exactly. Hadn't thought of this before, but I was amused at this quite justifiable argument - in a comment in an article by Barbara Kay on transgenderism (The Torah and Transgenderism) - that men who go and have vasectomies are, technically speaking at least, no longer men:
But, speaking of transwomen not being women - period, so to speak - you might check out this tweet and the UK Goverment site linked (somewhere in the thread) about the "consultation process" they've initiated:.... In her zeal to condemn those who she disagrees with, the author also ignores elephants in the room. She condemns gender reassignment surgery and its "commitment to permanent, artificially imposed sterility" as "ineluctably unJewish" but ignores vasectomy -- which also constitutes "permanent, artificially imposed sterility", is absolutely prohibited by halacha, and must be hundreds of times more common than gender reassignment surgery. There have to be hundreds of Jewish men in Canada permanently sterilizing themselves every year, which is also "ineluctably unJewish", but nary a peep about that here. ....
.This consultation does not consider the question of whether trans people exist, whether they have the right to legally change their gender, or whether it is right for a person of any age to identify with another gender, or with no gender. Trans and non-binary people are members of our society and should be treated with respect. Trans people already have the right to legally change their gender, and there is no suggestion of this right being removed. This consultation simply asks how best government might make the existing process under the Gender Recognition Act a better service for those trans and non-binary people who wish to use it.
:-) It's binary, all the way down.
You know if you really want people to do this - I think the time is well past due to give Peterson his own thread.Driftless wrote: ↑
See his recap of the talks with Sam Harris. I see nothing religious in the supernatural sense in Jordan Peterson's position:
https://jordanbpeterson.com/philosophy/ ... ns-part-i/
Looks more like the is/ought gap to me.
Thick skin - sticks and stones and all that. :-) Though I'm amused to recollect that, in a long-ago conversation over at the sadly defunct Choice in Dying blog, Ophelia Benson took me to task for using that aphorism, arguing that it was the worst one ever invented.
Dressed in his finery,
:lol: :clap: :clap: ;-) Though I'm not sure the closing stanza really follows; you have the coin then generally they're game.ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: ↑Dressed in his finery,
And thinking in binary,
Steers applied logic to life.
<snip>
"That is a shame,
For I was quite game,
To blow you and blow you again".
:lol: :clap:Snapfingers wrote: ↑ You got it wrong. Let me demonstrate how these things work for the patron:
https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/upl ... 00x480.jpg
John: Why is that guy staring at us?
Jane: Well, he seems a little .. weird
Clerk: Don't you know? Richard Carrier is the author of many books and numerous articles online and in print. His avid readers span the world from Hong Kong to Poland. With a Ph.D. in ancient history from Columbia University, he specializes in the modern philosophy of naturalism, humanism, and feminism, and the origins of Christianity and the intellectual history of Greece and Rome, with particular expertise in ancient philosophy, science and technology. He is also a noted defender of scientific and moral realism, Bayesian reasoning, and historical methods.
John: huh?
Clerk: He draws big crowds to places like this.
Jane: He does?
Clerk: yesterday we were empty. Tonight you are here. He will discuss anything. But beware, his rationality will often be the final word on any subject. It ends all rational discussion so to speak.
Richard Carrier [slowly looking up from his White Russian]: Polyamory solves more problems than it causes. And all the problems it causes aren’t really unique to poly.
John: Can we have the check, please?
Richard: All the reasons people might think monogamy is better (and not just for them, but for everyone), turn out not to be true, or lack evidence. And like Christian apologetics, monogamy apologetics will leave out data regarding the benefits of alternatives, in order to oversell the benefit of compliance with antiquated norms. Monogamy, after all, was invented for men to control women as property, and like a kluge, it has since been clunkily tinkered with to align more with our modern egalitarian values. But the two don’t really fit. You can’t value freedom, consent, diversity, equality, and autonomy, and insist monogamy remain the norm. Monogamy is an option. And for many, not the best.
John: Hey, the check, please. Please! [Waving 50 doallrs]
Clerk: be right with you....
Jane: John!! For the love of god! Just leave the 50, I want to leave....[couple rushes out]
Richard: Guess what? Research shows you are just as likely to catch an STI when “monogamous” than when ethically non-monogamous. In fact, if you are “monogamous,” you are actually substantially more likely to catch an STI if your partner is cheating. Because ethically non-monogamous people are extremely conscientious about safe sex practices, testing, and communication. Monogamous couples are not. In reality, if you are in a monogamous relationship, odds are good you are actually just “monogamous.” Because it’s all too common for one of you to in fact be unethically non-monogamous.
Clerk: Thanks, Richie - here's your split.
Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this trick in less obvious circumstance.Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Quoted verbatim:
The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
What "dishonesty"? Have you actually read the arguments I've written? Is the part I didn't quote relevant to those arguments? Or are you just grasping at straws?Brive1987 wrote: ↑ From the Voldemort thread. It’s worth seeing Kirb in full flight.
If I was prizzy prick I might report him for dishonesty and maybe threaten to sue. But actually I just stood aghast.
................
Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this trick in less obvious circumstance.Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Quoted verbatim:
The reason I detest PZvand his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects the established social order. Rejects western culture.
Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
Amazing.
Is it somehow "remoaning" points out that there are factors which made Brexit PRAGMATICALLY unlikely? Switzerland never joined the EU, doesn't have contested borders with EU countries and a history of cultural tensions, have never developed strong ties to the EU like the UK had.
Two tweets you don't like is enough to get blocked?
Don’t be a cunt. You somehow “forgot” to include something didn’t you. I wonder how often you perform this trick in less obvious circumstance.
[/quote]Now son. The reason I detest PZ and his mob and SJWs in general is their pomo worldview which rejects tradition. Rejects established social order. Rejects western culture. Redefines key words and concepts to self abased ideological ends.
