There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Good luck John. Keep your head while those around you are losing theirs.

[Sulman]

http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/2 ... ivanhorod/

There is a school of thought that contends the picture below actually shows German soldiers bravely fighting off partisans or other armed undesirables just off the right side while protecting the civilians in the foreground. The woman and child no doubt placed flowers in their button holes as a token of thanks

Bit of a discussion here.
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/2 ... ivanhorod/



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 6y4F8t95tI

That photo's composition makes no sense. There are signs of retouching. Someone with the appropriate knowledge could identify those rifles and uniforms.

I have a WWII history book from the DDR. It is filled with outrageous montages and retouchings. I expect this is another example.

I completely agree that the composition makes no sense.

I should also say that lots of photos were airbrushed back then, it doesn't indicate fakery in itself.

The uniform and rifle don't help much either because you just get into a probabilities game.

The rifle is the key. It does not fit the profile of any German rifle issued to front line troops. If memory serves it better fits the profile of some Czechoslovakian rifles but i am not confident in a positive identification.

This is where it gets messy. You probably know that German Uniforms were designed by people like Hugo Boss, and that did have the same sort of meaning in the 1930s as it does now. They were extremely fashionable, and as such their style or elements of their style was copied by other armies, police forces, even postmen, especially in Eastern Europe. There are even pictures of Jewish Partisans wearing uniforms almost indistinguishable from Wehrmacht uniforms. That really complicates things because we have a situation where Germany's allies and enemies were wearing such uniforms. You also have a situation where soldier could and would hire tailors to alter or make uniforms, I doubt it happened much on the Eastern Front but soldiers were moved around. Contrary to popular opinion, German soldiers were just as fashion conscious as the Western Allies and just as happy to break regulations, and it was often the officers who were first to do so.

It is also the case that Germans requisitioned foreign weapons and issued them to allies and second line units in times of need. So it is not impossible for a German soldier to be carrying something exotic.

So you start asking, what is the probability that in 1943, a German soldier would be wearing this early style uniform which is rather well kept, and holding a foreign rifle?

I don't think you can say anything with certainty about this photo, but if I were pushed I would "guess" that these aren't germans, but he isn't shooting at the civilians either. I would guess that the left of the photo has been doctored to add in extra rifles to make it look like they are shooting civilians. I think it most likely that this group came under fire and the soldier/partisan/policeman is returning fire... although it is strange that his instinct is not to take cover, nor does his first concern seem to be the civilians.

If he were there to execute civilians, you would think he would use that rifle to take control of the situation before executing them. Shouldering his rifle and taking careful aim to shoot a moving target in the head at point blank range doesn't make much sense.

It's a KAR98K, Vicky, clear as day. I don't know what you're on about. Also, it's from 1942.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. They're German units, shooting civilians to death. Someone with a Leica took a picture, because why not? It happened repeatedly in the East.

[John D]

My wife came back home late last night. I was sleeping so soundly that I didn't heat her come in. She locked me out of the bathroom when she got up this morning so I said goodbye through the closed door. I guess she probably just went to work like usual today and I will see her tonight. She holds onto her anger so she will probably not talk to me for weeks. But.... we will see. It is really bad timing that our daughter is in crisis right now, but perhaps this will bring us together in some way.

The last thing I said to my wife last night was "I wish you loved yourself enough to take care of yourself!" I am not sure I even know what that means.

I will call my daughter at lunch to see if I can reach her in the psych hospital. The patients don't have phones... there is just a community phone. She may not even want to talk to me. She told my son-in-law not to call me when she went into the hospital.... but he did anyway. She was diagnosed with ADD about 6 months ago. She was happy to find out she had an official diagnosis to explain her distracted behaviors. Her doc has been trying different medications trying to improve her focus. I don't know the details but I suspect the cure was worse than the disease. I found out that she was on a depressant to help her sleep at night. That sounds bad to me... like when my dad took amphetamines to lose weight and a depressant so he could sleep.

My son-in-law is doubting their marriage because he thinks my daughter is not keeping up her end of the bargain. She doesn't cook or clean. She does work full time however and makes $70k a year. I told him that sounds like she is contributing enough if that is all she can do... and they should use her money to hire a maid. And his reply was that this was not what he wanted and was not the deal when they got married. So, fuck. Hmmmmm.... and..... actually my wife and my daughter are very much alike....same distracted behaviors... same sense of self hatred and doubt.

I had a big fight with my brother about two weeks ago too. He has been arguing with me about some family stuff. In the process he has lied to me and my mom... and I called him on it... so yeah. I am pretty much fucking up half my relationships right now.

[Sulman]

John,

This is the time to try and keep it together. Your wife should be trying to help here, as your daughter's situation is, for my money, the most serious. I'd say leave your wife to it in the meantime, and do what needs to be done for your daughter. I appreciate this is easier said than done.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Holocaust thread:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=539

[VickyCaramel]

It's a KAR98K, Vicky, clear as day. I don't know what you're on about. Also, it's from 1942.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. They're German units, shooting civilians to death. Someone with a Leica took a picture, because why not? It happened repeatedly in the East.

Click to enlarge
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Kbrbx4FD0Pk/ ... ng+man.jpg

This is a 98K
http://candrsenal.com/wp-content/upload ... Kar98K.png

This is a Yugoslavian M1924
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lavian.JPG

It is not clear as day, and on balance, just the overall shape suggests an M24, details seem to rule out a 98K. However, that does not rule out these being German soldiers.

[Sulman]

It is not clear as day, and on balance, just the overall shape suggests an M24, details seem to rule out a 98K. However, that does not rule out these being German soldiers.

Yes, it's definitely possible they're Yugoslavian soldiers that happened to be wearing Nazi uniforms so they could take some nice action pictures of them shooting kids. It could also be modern-day Syria, or the field behind my house last week. I mean it's possible, right? Let's not just settle on the most likely scenario, which is Nazis on the Eastern Front, shooting civilians, an activity their soldiers used to write home about regularly without any shame, because they did not consider the Slavs as human beings, let alone the Jews.


Back on earth, here's a phenomenon on Twitter I keep seeing:

The article he writes about doesn't assert this anywhere. He's writing a giant strawman, safe in the knowledge that people will retweet it without reading the link.

[jugheadnaut]

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. They're German units, shooting civilians to death. Someone with a Leica took a picture, because why not? It happened repeatedly in the East.

There are so many completely unambiguous photographs of the Einsatzgruppen shooting civilians to death, as can be seen in the Einsatzgruppen documentary on Netflix, that I don't know why a single ambiguous photograph would get any attention whatsover, unless there are those whose sole motivation is collecting seeds of doubt.

[VickyCaramel]

It is not clear as day, and on balance, just the overall shape suggests an M24, details seem to rule out a 98K. However, that does not rule out these being German soldiers.

Yes, it's definitely possible they're Yugoslavian soldiers that happened to be wearing Nazi uniforms so they could take some nice action pictures of them shooting kids. It could also be modern-day Syria, or the field behind my house last week. I mean it's possible, right? Let's not just settle on the most likely scenario, which is Nazis on the Eastern Front, shooting civilians, an activity their soldiers used to write home about regularly without any shame, because they did not consider the Slavs as human beings, let alone the Jews.

I don't ignore evidence just to come up with the most convenient and popular answer.

Aside from the fact that it can distort history, unless you address the inconvenient evidence, it leaves the door wide open for conspiracy theories.

It also prevents you making a complete fool of yourself when parting with considerable sums of money when buying these photos. It can be rather embarrassing to pay good money for photos with a backstory and inscription on the back only to find exactly the same photo show up a few months later with a different story and different inscription. There is a huge market for photos (and bayonets, badges etc) and a huge amount of fakery.

But you do you, whatever story makes you happy.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 6y4F8t95tI


It's a KAR98K, Vicky, clear as day. I don't know what you're on about. Also, it's from 1942.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. They're German units, shooting civilians to death. Someone with a Leica took a picture, because why not? It happened repeatedly in the East.

I see five elements in a montage:
1. three soldiers aiming rifles;
2. a woman laying on the ground;
3. a woman carrying a child;
4. three people ducking or crouching;
2. two people bent over, ducking or possibly working.

My observations:
* Eyeballing it, the rifles do not appear aimed at the figures;
* Retouching is not in itself proof of forgery, but is one sign;
* woman on the ground would need to be directly below the two rifles on the left, yet appears directly in front of the right foot of the soldier on the right;
* The woman and child appear heavily retouched. Contrast differs from the rest of the scene. Edges are unnaturally sharp;
* The woman with the child is wearing street shoes;
* The edges of the feet of the two men(?) crouching have sharp edges and do not seem part of the scene;
* The men would need to be very small men in comparison to the crouching woman;
* The chiaroscuro of the figures do not match;
* The source-of-light direction is different for: 1) the soldier & woman and child; 2) the laying woman; 3) group to the right.

My conclusions:
* The woman and child is definitely an insertion;
* The laying woman is definitely an insertion;
* The three crouching male figures are likely an insertion;
* The original photo showed three soldiers on the left aiming past two ducking peasant women to the right.

Plenty of untouched photographs exist proving that both planned and spontaneous shootings of civilians occurred. This, however, seems a propaganda attempt to insinuate that such shootings were commonly committed by regular troops, as opposed to Einsatzgruppen.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

When I get a chance, I'm gonna scan some of the montages from my DDR history book. They are so blatant, you can readily (well, Wessies could) find the original photos.

[John D]

Damn... can't we write about Sherman tanks? This holocaust stuff is really boring.

[Tigzy]

Back on earth, here's a phenomenon on Twitter I keep seeing:

The article he writes about doesn't assert this anywhere. He's writing a giant strawman, safe in the knowledge that people will retweet it without reading the link.

The bare faced fucking cheek of Qasim Rashid, of all people in writing that!!

As I tweeted just now:

Unbefuckinlievable. Rashid has all the self-awareness of a whelk.

[Lsuoma]

I have nothing to contribute to a discussion about the death camps, but when I was a kid our county fair always had a ride called "The German Fun Haus." I always called it the German Fun Haus and Crematorium.

We used to have a variant of the board game Colditz call GTJ, or Gas The Jews. Whenever a general alarm went off indicating a general escape, all escapees were automatically assumed to be Jewish, and had to be herded into a special part of the castle designated as the gas chamber as the win condition for the Sausage Suckers.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

There are so many completely unambiguous photographs of the Einsatzgruppen shooting civilians to death, as can be seen in the Einsatzgruppen documentary on Netflix, that I don't know why a single ambiguous photograph would get any attention whatsover, unless there are those whose sole motivation is collecting seeds of doubt.

Two disparate motivations are at work.

One, there was great impetus in the Soviet Bloc to attribute atrocities to the entire Wehrmacht -- that is, the regular army and not just the Einsatztruppen, SD brigades, or anti-partisan SS units -- both to justify the harsh post-war treatment of Germany, and also to divert attention from the atrocities committed by the Russians, who twice raped and murdered their way through Poland.

The other, holocaust denialists grasp at any straw to undermine the orthodox history. If this photo of soldiers murdering peasants can be proven a fake, then, they fallaciously reason, it casts aspersion on any & all claims of soldiers murdering peasants.

I am confident this photo is a fake. I am also entirely certain that no less than half a million civilians were shot in the East by the nazis.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I have nothing to contribute to a discussion about the death camps, but when I was a kid our county fair always had a ride called "The German Fun Haus." I always called it the German Fun Haus and Crematorium.

We used to have a variant of the board game Colditz call GTJ, or Gas The Jews. Whenever a general alarm went off indicating a general escape, all escapees were automatically assumed to be Jewish, and had to be herded into a special part of the castle designated as the gas chamber as the win condition for the Sausage Suckers.

Well that was a boring board game, so anything to spice it up a bit.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Unbefuckinlievable. Rashid has all the self-awareness of a whelk.

But does he have the vulval feel of a whelk?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Damn... can't we write about Sherman tanks? This holocaust stuff is really boring.

Why are you posting here right now, instead of drinking up all the cooking wine?

[jugheadnaut]

Relevant to the the idea that the 6 million figure was a kind of traditional/symbolic estimate:- here's a list of "6 million Jews" mentions in US newspapers from the 1900s to the 1930s. I'd forgotten the list actually goes back before the 1920s. Also, the 1930s articles see use of the specific word "Holocaust."

Now admittedly, that is a list from a partisan, badly-designed website. So in case you're doubting, here's a meticulously-done corroborating video by someone who gone to the trouble of getting 10 of the actual newspapers from archives and filming them (curiously, the first mention he looks at, the Sun, isn't in the above list, but the others are). Not much room for doubt there, I'm sure you'll agree!

A glimpse of a possible abyss if there ever was one ;)
[/quote]

In the early 20th century there was a severe and growing problem with pogroms against Jews in far Eastern Europe. Even when they subsided, there was a huge issue with anti-Jewish laws in the region that led to extreme poverty and lack of ability to migrate. Most of these news stories are in this context. The best estimate at the time was that 6 million Jews lived in the affected regions, so it wouldn't be surprising to see this figure commonly referenced. I should also point out these references are not a controlled study, as should be obvious to anyone with a skeptical orientation. Examples where numbers other than 6 million were used would simply be ignored, enumerating the hits but not the misses and making 6 million look like a magic number. But even if the 6 million figure was universal, that was the best estimate for the time. It was about half the total Jewish population of Europe, so, if the Nazis also wound up exterminated about half the Jews of Europe, is that just too much of a coincidence for you to bear, and a conspiracy can be the only explanation.

[VickyCaramel]

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. They're German units, shooting civilians to death. Someone with a Leica took a picture, because why not? It happened repeatedly in the East.

There are so many completely unambiguous photographs of the Einsatzgruppen shooting civilians to death, as can be seen in the Einsatzgruppen documentary on Netflix, that I don't know why a single ambiguous photograph would get any attention whatsover, unless there are those whose sole motivation is collecting seeds of doubt.

That's not fair at all. For example, take this photo:-

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/490/3115 ... 39df_b.jpg

This is a staged photo. I have no problem pointing that out, I think it should be pointed out. It was staged by Chet's Circus who staged and faked many of the best action photos of WWII. These photos are fantastic photos and are obviously still used in books but it is generally acknowledged that they are staged or faked. I think we should celebrate Chet et al for their mastery at faking action photos... it is part of the history.

I am not so keen on the modern fakes which are just to fleece money from people in online auctions. But authentic fakes are indeed part of the story.

[MarcusAu]

Speaking of verifying information - some of the pictures in this new book on British culture and history may have been staged:

https://unbound.com/books/grunts-grapples/

[VickyCaramel]

Speaking of verifying information - some of the pictures in this new book on British culture and history may have been staged:

https://unbound.com/books/grunts-grapples/

How dare you! Wrestling is 100% authentic.

[TheMudbrooker]

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence can reasonably be expected. This whole matter could be cleared up by analysing the grounds of the 'extermination camps' and looking for bone and teeth fragments because you jit the nail square on the head with the question, "Where did they go? Find them for us, or fuck off." I would love to find them, but unfortunately archaeological investigation is prohibited. So long as 'we' are not allowed to examine the physical evidence and the law prohibits questioning the orthodox history, I am going to remain obstinately skeptical on principle.

Archeology is prohibited? Better tell these guys.http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=1248

That "International archeological research" [sic] doesn't look very international does it? But I'm sure it's kosher.

The point isn't to let the Israelis investigate the graves we already know about, because it isn't like we don't already know people died. The point is to find the missing dead and test the claims that after cremation, the Germans crushed the bones and teeth and scattered the ashes of millions of Jews.

So let me get this straight, when the Polish government assigned the overall project at Sobibor to the Foundation for Polish-German Reconciliation, which is run by a steering committee with representatives from Poland, France, Slovakia, The Netherlands, Israel and Germany, who in turn hired a Polish archeological research firm (Subterra) run by two Polish archeologists (Kola and Mazurek) who brought in an Israeli archeologist (Haimi) that makes the whole thing an Israeli operation?

Got it.

One of the major contentions of the Denier crowd is the claim that Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor were not extermination camps, but instead were merely transit camps. There are German train records indicating roughly 1.5 million people sent to these camps but there isn't a single record indicating that anyone left.

Are these some of the missing Jews you're talking about?

The graves at these four sites, which everybody already knows about, contain skeletal remains, human ash, and burnt and crushed human bone and tooth fragments and have been shown through core drilling and surface measurements to be of more than sufficient size to contain the remains of hundreds of thousands of corpses at each site.

Is that enough to pass your test?

[VickyCaramel]

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence can reasonably be expected. This whole matter could be cleared up by analysing the grounds of the 'extermination camps' and looking for bone and teeth fragments because you jit the nail square on the head with the question, "Where did they go? Find them for us, or fuck off." I would love to find them, but unfortunately archaeological investigation is prohibited. So long as 'we' are not allowed to examine the physical evidence and the law prohibits questioning the orthodox history, I am going to remain obstinately skeptical on principle.

Archeology is prohibited? Better tell these guys.http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=1248

That "International archeological research" [sic] doesn't look very international does it? But I'm sure it's kosher.

The point isn't to let the Israelis investigate the graves we already know about, because it isn't like we don't already know people died. The point is to find the missing dead and test the claims that after cremation, the Germans crushed the bones and teeth and scattered the ashes of millions of Jews.

So let me get this straight, when the Polish government assigned the overall project at Sobibor to the Foundation for Polish-German Reconciliation, which is run by a steering committee with representatives from Poland, France, Slovakia, The Netherlands, Israel and Germany, who in turn hired a Polish archeological research firm (Subterra) run by two Polish archeologists (Kola and Mazurek) who brought in an Israeli archeologist (Haimi) that makes the whole thing an Israeli operation?

Got it.

One of the major contentions of the Denier crowd is the claim that Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor were not extermination camps, but instead were merely transit camps. There are German train records indicating roughly 1.5 million people sent to these camps but there isn't a single record indicating that anyone left.

Are these some of the missing Jews you're talking about?

The graves at these four sites, which everybody already knows about, contain skeletal remains, human ash, and burnt and crushed human bone and tooth fragments and have been shown through core drilling and surface measurements to be of more than sufficient size to contain the remains of hundreds of thousands of corpses at each site.

Is that enough to pass your test?

Re-read what you wrote. Now imagine that they were there on behalf of the holocaust "deniers" hypothesis. Aside from it being unlikely they would hire an Israeli archaeologist... how would you expect anything to be different?

Again the evidence of millions of dead people is the supposed absence of millions of people instead of evidence of the remains of millions of people. You have no problem with this methodology?

[free thoughtpolice]

The entire holocaust was faked, kike like the moon landing and the Vietnam War.
My research shows that there was no war declared by the US in Vietnam. The so called memories and flashbacks were basically LSD induced delusions as the drug was quite popular at the time. All made up by the Deep State to keep the sheeple in line. :ugeek:

[TheMudbrooker]

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when evidence can reasonably be expected. This whole matter could be cleared up by analysing the grounds of the 'extermination camps' and looking for bone and teeth fragments because you jit the nail square on the head with the question, "Where did they go? Find them for us, or fuck off." I would love to find them, but unfortunately archaeological investigation is prohibited. So long as 'we' are not allowed to examine the physical evidence and the law prohibits questioning the orthodox history, I am going to remain obstinately skeptical on principle.

Archeology is prohibited? Better tell these guys.http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=1248

That "International archeological research" [sic] doesn't look very international does it? But I'm sure it's kosher.

The point isn't to let the Israelis investigate the graves we already know about, because it isn't like we don't already know people died. The point is to find the missing dead and test the claims that after cremation, the Germans crushed the bones and teeth and scattered the ashes of millions of Jews.

So let me get this straight, when the Polish government assigned the overall project at Sobibor to the Foundation for Polish-German Reconciliation, which is run by a steering committee with representatives from Poland, France, Slovakia, The Netherlands, Israel and Germany, who in turn hired a Polish archeological research firm (Subterra) run by two Polish archeologists (Kola and Mazurek) who brought in an Israeli archeologist (Haimi) that makes the whole thing an Israeli operation?

Got it.

One of the major contentions of the Denier crowd is the claim that Chelmno, Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor were not extermination camps, but instead were merely transit camps. There are German train records indicating roughly 1.5 million people sent to these camps but there isn't a single record indicating that anyone left.

Are these some of the missing Jews you're talking about?

The graves at these four sites, which everybody already knows about, contain skeletal remains, human ash, and burnt and crushed human bone and tooth fragments and have been shown through core drilling and surface measurements to be of more than sufficient size to contain the remains of hundreds of thousands of corpses at each site.

Is that enough to pass your test?

Re-read what you wrote. Now imagine that they were there on behalf of the holocaust "deniers" hypothesis. Aside from it being unlikely they would hire an Israeli archaeologist... how would you expect anything to be different?

Again the evidence of millions of dead people is the supposed absence of millions of people instead of evidence of the remains of millions of people. You have no problem with this methodology?

You poor dear, that goal-post must be getting so heavy by now.

[Brive1987]

Tough to pitch Chelmno as a transit camp as it consisted of a semi chateau and a forrest burial site a few miles away. Jews came from Lodtz and other smaller ghettos via train and motor transport were processed in the basement, led straight into gas vans and out to the pits. Where the burial (and later pyres) are of course non-evidence.

It’s weird. They tell me there are thousands of deaths in Sydney WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

[shoutinghorse]

So I peek into the pit today and it appears to be obsessing over a grainy black and white photo from WW2 that may or may not have been fake or retouched and questioning if that is unequivocal proof that the murder of 6 million Jews never happened.


https://i.imgur.com/l6aKftc.jpg

[Brive1987]

The photo is emblematic.

Matt, this person examined the original which apparently still exists. Clearly there must be onion skin layers of lying going on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 64646.html

[Matt Cavanaugh]

So I peek into the pit today and it appears to be obsessing over a grainy black and white photo from WW2 that may or may not have been fake or retouched and questioning if that is unequivocal proof that the murder of 6 million Jews never happened.


https://i.imgur.com/l6aKftc.jpg

Which is why I opened a dedicated thread as a final solution to your problem:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=539

[Brive1987]

The plot thickens. The dude is real and was getting stuff out of Poland but now he works at the town hall and makes (((copies))) of photos.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... ndworldwar

[Brive1987]

Shit flares and burns on the Pit and then flames out. Every now and then a ridiculous and gaudy idea struts past and demands we pause, point and guffaw.

It breaks the Jordan, Trump circus.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

The photo is emblematic.

Matt, this person examined the original which apparently still exists. Clearly there must be onion skin layers of lying going on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 64646.html

I see an heavily retouched photo-montage, typical of Soviet Bloc propaganda. The multiple light sources alone condemn it. The original photo may have depicted an atrocity, but was 'augmented' for effect. Pity the original will not be produced so it can be examined.

But as Jugheadnaut noted, so many examples of real snapshots of atrocities exist, this photo's veracity is inconsequential.

[Brive1987]

Nice

[Shatterface]

The entire holocaust was faked, kike like the moon landing and the Vietnam War.
My research shows that there was no war declared by the US in Vietnam. The so called memories and flashbacks were basically LSD induced delusions as the drug was quite popular at the time. All made up by the Deep State to keep the sheeple in line. :ugeek:

The Vietnam war was faked to promote music by the Doors and the Rolling Stones. It was effectively one long pop video.

[free thoughtpolice]

Can we get a shoop of PZ in a Nazi uniform executing Trump and Jordan Peterson while a bigfoot in a Pepe the frog tee shirt watches on?

[John D]

Vicky has certainly convinced me. There were only 5,750,000 Jews killed in the holocaust and not 6,000,000 as is typically claimed. This makes all the difference in the world. So glad I spent the last two days reading about this! :doh:

[Tigzy]

So I peek into the pit today and it appears to be obsessing over a grainy black and white photo from WW2 that may or may not have been fake or retouched and questioning if that is unequivocal proof that the murder of 6 million Jews never happened.

It's all been a bit like reading the minutes of a Momentum meeting, tbh.

[Brive1987]

The photo is emblematic.

Matt, this person examined the original which apparently still exists. Clearly there must be onion skin layers of lying going on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 64646.html

I see an heavily retouched photo-montage, typical of Soviet Bloc propaganda. The multiple light sources alone condemn it. The original photo may have depicted an atrocity, but was 'augmented' for effect. Pity the original will not be produced so it can be examined.

But as Jugheadnaut noted, so many examples of real snapshots of atrocities exist, this photo's veracity is inconsequential.

I agree. This is just an interesting litmus test. The dude was responsible for copying pics for the underground for London and he kept a few which his mother hid around the city and which survived. So he had both opportunity in 43/44 to make or receive a fake Polish pic, less likely to be a Soviet fraud. Also there is a plausible context for a real picture. The dude died in 2015. I wonder where the pics went.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Js ... 22&f=false

[VickyCaramel]

Tough to pitch Chelmno as a transit camp as it consisted of a semi chateau and a forrest burial site a few miles away. Jews came from Lodtz and other smaller ghettos via train and motor transport were processed in the basement, led straight into gas vans and out to the pits. Where the burial (and later pyres) are of course non-evidence.

It’s weird. They tell me there are thousands of deaths in Sydney WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

Gas vans? Okay I'm done.

[Lsuoma]

[Brive1987]

Tough to pitch Chelmno as a transit camp as it consisted of a semi chateau and a forrest burial site a few miles away. Jews came from Lodtz and other smaller ghettos via train and motor transport were processed in the basement, led straight into gas vans and out to the pits. Where the burial (and later pyres) are of course non-evidence.

It’s weird. They tell me there are thousands of deaths in Sydney WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

Gas vans? Okay I'm done.

What the honest to fuck are you on about? Gas vans are a completely unremarkable part of the T4 and Chelmno narrative.

Stop talking to your CODOH mates and read Patrick Montague and related literature.

Your instinctive and default eye rolling is aligning you with the kooks of all flavours that exist only to populate basements.

https://books.google.com.au/books/about ... sc=y&hl=en

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

So I peek into the pit today and it appears to be obsessing over a grainy black and white photo from WW2 that may or may not have been fake or retouched and questioning if that is unequivocal proof that the murder of 6 million Jews never happened.


https://i.imgur.com/l6aKftc.jpg

Which is why I opened a dedicated thread as a final solution to your problem:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=539

It is a lovely thread too, with comfy seats and fresh coffee. It would be lovely if everybody moved their holocaust stuff there. There may be a raffle and a surprise visit from bigfoot!*


*None of that is true.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

At a certain point Vicky will declare herself to be only trolling and that you are the retard for falling for her retarded act. While this seems endlessly amusing to her, this in fact may be a defect of her character. Or perhaps not, taking all bets!

[Brive1987]

Oh she has already thrown that smoke. But trolling needs to be clever or meta to rise above annoying.

The gas van quip was PA denialism - beyond just asking questions about numbers. Even if she is a clumsy troll, it’s an overlay to her stated numerical skeptisism denialism.

“Look son .. “

[Brive1987]

I blame others for introducing the bland and tedious Holocaust topic. I only take comfort in the fact my contribution has been a considered précis of the historiography, a bibliography for the under informed, some links to particularly engaging scholarship , a couple of weirdo examples, some gentle corrections, a fatherly boot up Vicky’s arse and now a video where the interesting stuff starts about 32 mins in.




So back to normal programming.

On another front shots fired on twitter. “Contact left! ... Where is he scouts?”

[Steersman]

The entire holocaust was faked, kike like the moon landing and the Vietnam War.
My research shows that there was no war declared by the US in Vietnam. The so called memories and flashbacks were basically LSD induced delusions as the drug was quite popular at the time. All made up by the Deep State to keep the sheeple in line. :ugeek:

LoL. With analyses such as those I'm sure you have a future with InfoWars ... ;-)

[Steersman]

<snip>

I had a big fight with my brother about two weeks ago too. He has been arguing with me about some family stuff. In the process he has lied to me and my mom... and I called him on it... so yeah. I am pretty much fucking up half my relationships right now.

Family--The Ties that Bind . . . And Gag!; laughter, the best medicine ... ;-)

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

There are so many completely unambiguous photographs of the Einsatzgruppen shooting civilians to death, as can be seen in the Einsatzgruppen documentary on Netflix, that I don't know why a single ambiguous photograph would get any attention whatsover, unless there are those whose sole motivation is collecting seeds of doubt.

Two disparate motivations are at work.

One, there was great impetus in the Soviet Bloc to attribute atrocities to the entire Wehrmacht -- that is, the regular army and not just the Einsatztruppen, SD brigades, or anti-partisan SS units -- both to justify the harsh post-war treatment of Germany, and also to divert attention from the atrocities committed by the Russians, who twice raped and murdered their way through Poland.

The other, holocaust denialists grasp at any straw to undermine the orthodox history. If this photo of soldiers murdering peasants can be proven a fake, then, they fallaciously reason, it casts aspersion on any & all claims of soldiers murdering peasants.

I am confident this photo is a fake. I am also entirely certain that no less than half a million civilians were shot in the East by the nazis.

British intelligence comprehensively bugged some of their POW facilities. It became apparent that knowledge of ethnic cleansing was almost universal and that a lot of the regular Wehrmacht weren't too bothered by it.

[Brive1987]

So PZs faux vegetarian life style was a panic induced effort to squeeze another year or two out of Morris Mn. Shows the desperate times he has been reduced to. His best bet is a quick suicide by steak.

Alternatively, it could be a situation like mine. I was diagnosed with heart disease, so then I reduced consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol, and went with a vegetarian diet to help reduce the damage of a lifetime of indulgence and maybe squeeze out a few more healthy years. I also took up an exercise program.

[VickyCaramel]

Oh she has already thrown that smoke. But trolling needs to be clever or meta to rise above annoying.

The gas van quip was PA denialism - beyond just asking questions about numbers. Even if she is a clumsy troll, it’s an overlay to her stated numerical skeptisism denialism.

“Look son .. “

I'm not down with the gas vans even though it's really easy to find evidence of them even in England. Corporal Jones had one... I think steam chambers are more likely... or electrified floors which then open up to drop the bodies into the backs of the vans.... which is where they make the Jew soap and the shrunken heads.
....that's when they weren't just throwing people alive into fire pits ofcourse, or throwing them into cages with bears and eagles.

A mountain of bullshit was alleged by holocaust survivors before the current gas chamber narrative evolved which I thought had been put to bed (swept under the rug)? Am I to suppose there is more than one orthodoxy? Don't bother, I have lost interest.

Holocaust historians make biblical historians look good. Fuck it, holocaust historians make feminist historians look good. Shield maidens anyone?

[Brive1987]

No Vicky. Gas vans haven’t been wished away. They were pretty effective at Chelmno for the (relatively) low transport rates coming out of the Wartheland. And they had been equally effective in cleaning out the sanatoriums under T4.

Finding tabloid level post war excitement isn’t a golden ticket for denial. I’m gonna guess you have similarly firm views about the efficacy of diesel engines. Ha. I’m right aren’t I. And what about those low rates of cyanide in the walls eh? And really. Let’s ignore the WWII German specs and debate crematoria capacity. And just where was the fuel kept? We’ve had the changing numbers herring, written off existing grave sites for an eternal search for the missing. We’ve also written off the entire scholarly field with a Carrier-esque wave.

Quite the tour de force.

In other unrelated sad news.

[VickyCaramel]

No Vicky. Gas vans haven’t been wished away. They were pretty effective at Chelmno for the (relatively) low transport rates coming out of the Wartheland. And they had been equally effective in cleaning out the sanatoriums under T4.

I dare you to try an imagine how a gas van would actually work without picturing a clown car and Benny Hill music.

Finding tabloid level post war excitement isn’t a golden ticket for denial.

Tabloid level.... yeah I'll definitely go with that. It wasn't in the tabloids though was it?

[free thoughtpolice]

They still have gas vans in Germany:

[Brive1987]

No Vicky. Gas vans haven’t been wished away. They were pretty effective at Chelmno for the (relatively) low transport rates coming out of the Wartheland. And they had been equally effective in cleaning out the sanatoriums under T4.

I dare you to try an imagine how a gas van would actually work without picturing a clown car and Benny Hill music.

Finding tabloid level post war excitement isn’t a golden ticket for denial.

Tabloid level.... yeah I'll definitely go with that. It wasn't in the tabloids though was it?

It’s normally considered good form to allow for a perspective gap between events and writing proper (as opposed to partisan) history. I can understand why that gap may have been ignored after WWII. I can also see the development of a massive and very serious scholarship over the past twenty years. I only see sober sourced based investigation in the mainstream. And yes, hard Jewish intionalists have been pretty much shown the door as overly emotional and un-nuanced.

Re the vans, if you can get past the URL, there are 114 references below to non Jewish sources supporting the presented primary evidence.

A few more than the electric floors get.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/gas-vans

[Brive1987]

“Intentionalists”

[Billie from Ockham]

So, not only am I supposed to forgive that Alantis chick for having no fucking clue what irony is, but I'm also supposed to allow nose-ring-girl to further the death of the subjunctive?

[MarcusAu]

So, not only am I supposed to forgive that Alantis chick for having no fucking clue what irony is, but I'm also supposed to allow nose-ring-girl to further the death of the subjunctive?

Don't worry about it - the matter was resolved some time ago

[MarcusAu]

I see that one of the great minds of the current age - has been in dialogue with Sam Harris in order to correct some of his mis-conceptions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwiJlQUrwdA

[CommanderTuvok]

I listened to that. Brand was as bad as you'd expect. Any discussion of the negatives of religion, esp. Islam, was met with "what about drones, tho" or some other relativist claptrap.

Brand is a fucking regressive lunatic.