The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52681

Post by HunnyBunny »

Spotted Carrier's first mistake in his lawsuit filing:
5.Defendant Frank-Skiba is author of a false and defamatory June 15, 2016 Facebook® post,and a gofundme® campaign on which she published false, defamatory, and outrageous allegations. Defendant Frank-Skiba resides in Arizona.
Amy Frank is not involved in the gofundme page, she didn't author it and she doesn't run it. The quote from Amy comes directly from her official complaint to SSA. Amy could have given the text to the fund organiser, Cara Zelaya, although Cara is also an ex-SSA employee.

Officially the only thing Amy authored is the original facebook post. She can't be responsible for the gofundme page as it states it is her friends organising it.

Ape+lust
Pit Art Master
Pit Art Master
Posts: 7364
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52682

Post by Ape+lust »

Holy macaroni. Peez's plunge is accelerating.

Ten days ago:

http://imgur.com/MsTyvwz.jpg

Two days ago:

http://imgur.com/sMBZ8b4.jpg

A couple of years ago, FtB was comfortably ensconced in the 8000 range domestically and 20000-22000 range globally.

Fewer and fewer people like Peez. NOBODY likes FreethoughtBlogs 2.0. :dance:

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52683

Post by Kirbmarc »

Ape+lust wrote: A couple of years ago, FtB was comfortably ensconced in the 8000 range domestically and 20000-22000 range globally.

Fewer and fewer people like Peez. NOBODY likes FreethoughtBlogs 2.0. :dance:
At this point it's possible that a non-insignificant part of the traffic of FreeThoughtBlogs is made up by Pitters who read the posts of Anjuli Pandavar. :lol:

HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52684

Post by HunnyBunny »

Hunt wrote:I kind of sense that PZ has been a little more circumspect about bluffing his way out of this one with Carrier, and it seems that is coming to pass. It's not that Carrier is a legal rock star or has any better a case than Shermer had, it's that Carrier knows how much they're relying on apathy and bluffing. Also Shermer had everything to lose and really nothing to gain. The opposite is true with Carrier. So he's probably going to continue the process. That alone is more than PZ, et. al. want to bother with. In short, I think they may have really stepped in it this time.
I rate Carrier's chance reasonably highly. It will be a big ask to get the community to fund the legal defence of 6 entities. This could all get quite messy. :popcorn: :popcorn:

HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52685

Post by HunnyBunny »

WMDKitty is all over the Friendly Athiest post, demonstrating a complete failure to grasp facts, reality, logic.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... m=facebook

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52686

Post by deLurch »

piginthecity wrote:
Sunder wrote:I do have to wonder: How red will Michael Shermer's face be if a tit like Carrier manages to take down Peez?
Yes. Especially if PZ's previous form with regards Shermer led the judge to award the punitive damages !
Shermer got away from pz and that crowd with his reputation pretty much intact. I am not sure if Carrier will be able to say the same.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52687

Post by Kirbmarc »

HunnyBunny wrote:WMDKitty is all over the Friendly Athiest post, demonstrating a complete failure to grasp facts, reality, logic.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... m=facebook
Par on course with WMDKitty. She believes that accusations are evidence and that Shermer is a "confirmed rapist", so of course she thinks that Carrier is guilty too just because he's been accused. WMDKitty is the kind of person who probably believed that Bill Nye was a sexual predator back when someone told PZ in private that he was.

gurugeorge
.
.
Posts: 820
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52688

Post by gurugeorge »

rayshul wrote:

I need to recommend this.
Best agnostic rapping I've heard in a long time.

HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52689

Post by HunnyBunny »

Kirbmarc wrote:
HunnyBunny wrote:WMDKitty is all over the Friendly Athiest post, demonstrating a complete failure to grasp facts, reality, logic.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... m=facebook
Par on course with WMDKitty. She believes that accusations are evidence and that Shermer is a "confirmed rapist", so of course she thinks that Carrier is guilty too just because he's been accused. WMDKitty is the kind of person who probably believed that Bill Nye was a sexual predator back when someone told PZ in private that he was.
wmdkitty idahogie • 2 hours ago
The anti-FTB crew is just bitter because their ignorant, bigoted asses were hoisted up the flagpole by PZ and crew. They've never gotten over it.
Sheesh, get over it Kirbmarc, your ignorant ass was hoisted a long time ago :lol:

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52690

Post by deLurch »

Hunt wrote:I kind of sense that PZ has been a little more circumspect about bluffing his way out of this one with Carrier, and it seems that is coming to pass. It's not that Carrier is a legal rock star or has any better a case than Shermer had, it's that Carrier knows how much they're relying on apathy and bluffing. Also Shermer had everything to lose and really nothing to gain. The opposite is true with Carrier. So he's probably going to continue the process. That alone is more than PZ, et. al. want to bother with. In short, I think they may have really stepped in it this time.
Yup. The M.A.D. approach. Mutually assured destruction. Shermer had something to lose. Carrier has nothing of value to lose. That is why this approach works for him.

Carrier's issue is that he does not have the monetary scratch to pay for his offense. Hell, Carrier probably won't be able to pay for the depositions.

A good approach for the defendants to take would be to start the legal process working and outspend him quickly. When Carrier can't afford to meet the court deadlines for paper work, and can't afford to do them properly, the case will be sunk.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52691

Post by Kirbmarc »

Let's talk about the infamous alt-right, the specter of all evil, the bane of the SJWs everywhere.

From what I'm reading online the alt-right is simply identitarian authoritarianism, just like the SJWs, only with a different scale of which identity is superior and which is inferior. Both SJWs and alt-right supporters believe that individuality is superseded by "culture", that equality before the law is a horrible idea because it "erases differences" and that cultural mixing and diffusion of ideas is inherently bad, again because it dilutes the "inherent essences" of different socio-cultural groups.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the alt-right is simply a reaction to Critical Race Theory or other SJW ideas in academia. They seem to feed into each other's mythology quite well. Two sides of the same authoritarian and essentialist coin.

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52692

Post by deLurch »

Since Skepticon is being sued, I wonder how it would affect their financing.

I checked their website & they posted this on the 24th.

https://archive.is/lgjSp
DONATIONS = CONFERENCE
by Bluebecca | Sep 24, 2016
Team Skepticon would like to remind everyone that ALL donations go to the conference and ONLY to the conference. If Skepticon ever needs funds for anything else, our team will work to obtain them in another way, or will be very up front about where those particular donations go.
We thank everyone for their support to keep Skepticon the largest FREE skeptic conference in the nation!
Love,
Team Skepticon
This seems to imply two things (although it is possible they could be a tad dodgy regarding the meaning of their words).

1. Donations there will not go towards the defense of the Carrier lawsuit.
2. Skepticon has not spend a single red penny on consulting a lawyer regarding Carrier's lawsuit to date.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52693

Post by Kirbmarc »

HunnyBunny wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
HunnyBunny wrote:WMDKitty is all over the Friendly Athiest post, demonstrating a complete failure to grasp facts, reality, logic.


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... m=facebook
Par on course with WMDKitty. She believes that accusations are evidence and that Shermer is a "confirmed rapist", so of course she thinks that Carrier is guilty too just because he's been accused. WMDKitty is the kind of person who probably believed that Bill Nye was a sexual predator back when someone told PZ in private that he was.
wmdkitty idahogie • 2 hours ago
The anti-FTB crew is just bitter because their ignorant, bigoted asses were hoisted up the flagpole by PZ and crew. They've never gotten over it.
Sheesh, get over it Kirbmarc, your ignorant ass was hoisted a long time ago :lol:
This might be why PZ deleted his own words after his "crew" found them "islamophobic". Ass hoisting works in mysterious ways.

Ape+lust
Pit Art Master
Pit Art Master
Posts: 7364
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52694

Post by Ape+lust »

Traffic numbers from 2 dates show how far Freethought Blogs has fallen:

December 29, 2011 - A slow / middling day a couple of years before FtB's peak.

July 8, 2016 - The busiest day of the last 3 months.

http://imgur.com/eH6YKXF.jpg

http://imgur.com/xhLm70g.jpg

http://imgur.com/xpZI2Yk.jpg

https://www.quantcast.com/freethoughtbl ... atformCard

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52695

Post by Brive1987 »

Having obtained a full copy of the court listing, Carrier has done a wonderful job doxing one and all..

Lucky we aren't playing by FtB rules eh?

http://i.imgur.com/toNjrQz.jpg

Michael J
.
.
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:42 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52696

Post by Michael J »

piginthecity wrote:
Sunder wrote:I do have to wonder: How red will Michael Shermer's face be if a tit like Carrier manages to take down Peez?
Yes. Especially if PZ's previous form with regards Shermer led the judge to award the punitive damages !
Carrier has one advantage. He knows first hand how these people operate.

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52697

Post by deLurch »

A point of amusement.

Despite engaging Lara Lane & Skepticon in a lawsuit, he still lists attending Skepticon 9 as a possibility this year. And yes, he has been updating that calendar with what few and meager events he is engaged with. Most of them are flagged with "Reserved"

https://calendar.google.com/calendar/em ... eles&pli=1


Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52698

Post by Kirbmarc »

Ape+lust wrote:Traffic numbers from 2 dates show how far Freethought Blogs has fallen:

December 29, 2011 - A slow / middling day a couple of years before FtB's peak.

July 8, 2016 - The busiest day of the last 3 months.

http://imgur.com/eH6YKXF.jpg

http://imgur.com/xhLm70g.jpg

http://imgur.com/xpZI2Yk.jpg

https://www.quantcast.com/freethoughtbl ... atformCard
The US and global visits and people have more than halved and the US and global page views are 1/4th of those in 2011.

Meanwhile internet traffic has more than doubled between 2011 and 2015.

FTB is failing.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52699

Post by Kirbmarc »

The Orbit had its peak popularity in July and is already falling in ranking.

Tribble
.
.
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:34 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52700

Post by Tribble »

Ape+lust wrote:Holy macaroni. Peez's plunge is accelerating.

Ten days ago:

http://imgur.com/MsTyvwz.jpg

Two days ago:

http://imgur.com/sMBZ8b4.jpg

A couple of years ago, FtB was comfortably ensconced in the 8000 range domestically and 20000-22000 range globally.

Fewer and fewer people like Peez. NOBODY likes FreethoughtBlogs 2.0. :dance:
I remember it being as high as the 5000 range US and 15,000 globally.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52701

Post by Hunt »

Tribble wrote:
I remember it being as high as the 5000 range US and 15,000 globally.
So Carrier is hitting FtB when it is weak and vulnerable. That is good.


Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52702

Post by Kirbmarc »

Ape+lust wrote:Holy macaroni. Peez's plunge is accelerating.

Two days ago:

http://imgur.com/sMBZ8b4.jpg

A couple of years ago, FtB was comfortably ensconced in the 8000 range domestically and 20000-22000 range globally.

Fewer and fewer people like Peez. NOBODY likes FreethoughtBlogs 2.0. :dance:
Sam Harris has overtaken the entire FTB. To say nothing about Patheos.

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52703

Post by Brive1987 »

For what it is worth, Carrier does not appear to be shacked up with Amanda but he is unconscionably close to the University.

"keep your babies close to you, there's someone out there"

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52704

Post by Brive1987 »

Really? wrote:RICHARD CARRIER "SLANDER" REMINDER DOCUMENT LIST
Nice one.

This doesn't have the links but it does have a few more items.

Click for a larger image.

http://i.imgur.com/wlFARGj.jpg

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52705

Post by Brive1987 »

Thunderf00t is a mite behind the times.

Luckily he has Justicar to keep him uptodate.

:lol:

Michael J
.
.
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:42 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52706

Post by Michael J »

What must really hurt these guys is that not one of them has really made it in the SJW world. When leaches like Sarkeesian, Quinn and Harper get invited to the UN or put on panels by Twitter or Google they must cry themselves to sleep.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52707

Post by Kirbmarc »

A Thunderfoot video on Youtube "Heroes", the new way that Youtube has to give pathetic incentives to people to flag video/add or remove tags/influence searches for them for free by calling them "Heroes"


Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52708

Post by Brive1987 »

Remember when Carrier laughed at Thunderf00t for using Quantcast figures during the "Sinking Ship" skirmish? And it took the Pit to point out that Quantcast was right and Carrier was only looking at figures for his own blog and not FtB as a whole?

http://i.imgur.com/AoJOSVI.jpg

Ape+lust
Pit Art Master
Pit Art Master
Posts: 7364
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52709

Post by Ape+lust »

Kirbmarc wrote:Sam Harris has overtaken the entire FTB. To say nothing about Patheos.
Oof. The atheists Peez treated shabbily are enjoying splendid careers, while those he considered worthy peers (who have mostly abandoned him) are stuck in the same doldrums he is. I'm this >< close to believing karma is something real :lol:

Just a few months ago Peez was STILL muttering that Patheos was sucking up atheist blogs so they could eventually hamstring them with regulation. It hasn't occurred to him that as evil plots go, that one is way past its sell date. It's been 7 years, FtB's viability as the alternative is gone, and Patheos still hasn't pulled the trigger? Peez is still certain it'll happen. Such a sick monkey.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52710

Post by Kirbmarc »

Ape+lust wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:Sam Harris has overtaken the entire FTB. To say nothing about Patheos.
Oof. The atheists Peez treated shabbily are enjoying splendid careers, while those he considered worthy peers (who have mostly abandoned him) are stuck in the same doldrums he is. I'm this >< close to believing karma is something real :lol:

Just a few months ago Peez was STILL muttering that Patheos was sucking up atheist blogs so they could eventually hamstring them with regulation. It hasn't occurred to him that as evil plots go, that one is way past its sell date. It's been 7 years, FtB's viability as the alternative is gone, and Patheos still hasn't pulled the trigger? Peez is still certain it'll happen. Such a sick monkey.
I see it less as karma and more as the natural consequence of being an asshole to anyone who disagrees with you without having the intellectual clout to back up your claims. Peezie is unable to agree to disagree, to have friendly discussions, and he's not nearly enough of a brain to deliver arguments as good as, say, Hitchens.

Hitchens was, in some ways, the Dr. House of atheism: often a massive jerk, but also very clever, very knowledgeable a very good writer and often right. Peezie clearly wanted to be the Hitchens of Social Justice: he got the "asshole" part right, but he lacked the attitude, the knowledge and the writing skills to make his assholery tolerable. Instead of being Dr House he was

[A word of advice to all wannabe rage-bloggers: you need to be able to write, and write well, and have well-constructed arguments based on evidence. Otherwise after a while the novelty of your angry rants will wear off.]

Atheist laughed at his antics when he was yelling at creationists and desecrating books. We didn't notice that there was no substance behind the bitchy attitude until he sided with the SJWs. Myers is an intellectual lightweight compared to the Four Horsemen, especially to Hitchens. Hitchens was abrasive and direct, but he backed up his claims and knew how to argue. Peezie only knows how to rant: his biggest contribution as a logical argument was the Courtier's Reply, and it's wasn't even his to begin with.

The fact that he's chosen a very weak and contradictory po-mo ideology, which goes against skepticism, didn't help him. The most (financially and professionally) successful SJW apologists aren't skeptics or scientists, but journalists and "pop culture experts". Social Justice doesn't blend well with a skeptical world view. Myers also is a cis hetero white male, so he can't claim any special oppression points.

He was destined to fall. It was just a matter of when.

screwtape
.
.
Posts: 2713
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:15 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52711

Post by screwtape »

Clarence wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Islam doesn't get to set the parameters of discourse here in the free west. The matter was settled in 1789.
As should be known to anyone with any knowlege of US history, nothing was 'settled' in 1789, even if you ignore all the attacks on the Constitution since 1931, and esp since 2001.
I don't believe the mention of 1789 is supposed to refer to US history. À bas ceux qui fessée jeunes filles japonaises! À la guillotine!


And with respect to the excellent news about Dr Carrier, I am quite sure that both sides realise that neither of them will have any worthwhile reputation after a couple of days in court. This will end with an bare-minimum apology and a sealed settlement involving a small amount of money. Carrier will crow about his victory and FTB etc will do the same. All the same, it will be a joy to watch. Self-destruction is the saddest kind of destruction, and engenders top notch schadenfreude.

InfraRedBucket
.
.
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52712

Post by InfraRedBucket »

Well, well. well

This is one those Sally ("Psychic") Morgan vs the Daily Mail type legal battles where you want both to lose.


-

gurugeorge
.
.
Posts: 820
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52713

Post by gurugeorge »

Lionel Shriver responds to the criticism of her anti-SJW speech. Seems to be similar to what others of the Left on "our" side are saying, but with the added twist of pointing out it's a kind of generational warfare - SJW-ism is millenials' way of one-upping their elders, but it's gone too far.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52714

Post by Kirbmarc »

I took the liberty of sending the excellent work done by Really? over to Thunderfoot. He seems interested in making a video on the Carrier lawsuit.

InfraRedBucket
.
.
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52715

Post by InfraRedBucket »

Ape+lust wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:Sam Harris has overtaken the entire FTB. To say nothing about Patheos.
Oof. The atheists Peez treated shabbily are enjoying splendid careers, while those he considered worthy peers (who have mostly abandoned him) are stuck in the same doldrums he is. I'm this >< close to believing karma is something real :lol:

Just a few months ago Peez was STILL muttering that Patheos was sucking up atheist blogs so they could eventually hamstring them with regulation. It hasn't occurred to him that as evil plots go, that one is way past its sell date. It's been 7 years, FtB's viability as the alternative is gone, and Patheos still hasn't pulled the trigger? Peez is still certain it'll happen. Such a sick monkey.

Meanwhile , while Myers plummets and fire fights another lawsuit, Michael Nugent has been addressing the UN Human Rights Council.

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2016/09/23 ... s-council/


He's still busy in Warsaw at the mo. Has anyone tipped him off on Twitter on the latest sagas?
-

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52716

Post by Kirbmarc »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
Meanwhile , while Myers plummets and fire fights another lawsuit, Michael Nugent has been addressing the UN Human Rights Council.

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2016/09/23 ... s-council/


He's still busy in Warsaw at the mo. Has anyone tipped him off on Twitter on the latest sagas?

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52717

Post by Hunt »

Kirbmarc wrote:

He was destined to fall. It was just a matter of when.
PZ never really attained the height necessary for "falling". He had a popular blog, which has now dwindled. Dawkins was the only one of the 4H to be said to have "scouted" him, and even his interest fell off as he became more familiar with his MO. I'm not sure Hitchens even knew who he was; I'm not sure Dennet even knows who he is; and of course Sam Harris hates his guts.

To me, PZ is a moderate talent witch deep daddy issues who shacked up with feminists because he fears and hates threatening males, and .... well, isn't that enough?

CuntajusRationality
.
.
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:25 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52718

Post by CuntajusRationality »

Here are some of the exhibits referenced in Carrier's civil complaint, downloaded from PACER.

Skepticon Response: http://docdro.id/eUs7E9S
Richard Carrier Affidavit: http://docdro.id/Padl5q0
Dana Carol Fredsti Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IvzLsVD
David Fitzgerald Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IYxozQD
Spencer Hawkins Affidavit: http://docdro.id/WqX5URS
Heina Dadabhoy Emails: http://docdro.id/VYtvKAz
Lauren Lane Emails: http://docdro.id/TKBmJXe

There are 28 exhibits in total, but most of them are just PDF versions of the allegedly defamatory blog/Facebook posts, and records showing that cease and desist letters were delivered to and received by the various parties. The ones above are the only ones that seem at all interesting.

sp0tlight
.
.
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:17 am
Location: Central Urope

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52719

Post by sp0tlight »

Kirbmarc wrote:Atheist laughed at his antics when he was yelling at creationists and desecrating books. We didn't notice that there was no substance behind the bitchy attitude until he sided with the SJWs. Myers is an intellectual lightweight compared to the Four Horsemen, especially to Hitchens. Hitchens was abrasive and direct, but he backed up his claims and knew how to argue. Peezie only knows how to rant: his biggest contribution as a logical argument was the Courtier's Reply, and it's wasn't even his to begin with.
I've started reading Peez around his biggest spats with creationalists but his novelty was wearing quickly and I dropped his blog from my rotation even before he rode the proverbial elevator. He's not only miss the intellectual muscle Hitch had, he also super charmless. I didn't agree with Hitch in everything but if someone said he can get me a dinner with him on a condition he can only talk about things we disagree on I'd be buying plane tickets in a second.

I don't think I wanted to meet Peez even in his hey-days. He never intrigued me, his blog was just a funny comment on Slashdot, I can chuckle but that's about my level of interaction with the author.

some guy
.
.
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:05 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52720

Post by some guy »

comhcinc wrote:
some guy wrote:[
You obviously didn't read the complaint. It's got sticky all over it.
No but I looked over it. ...
So as I said, you obviously didn't read the complaint. Yeah, a lawyer probably tweeked and packaged the verbiage into a *somewhat* coherent legally sufficient complaint, but there is little doubt about the source of many of the descriptive passages. (Which would be obvious to anyone here who has RTFC.)

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52721

Post by jet_lagg »

CuntajusRationality wrote:Here are some of the exhibits referenced in Carrier's civil complaint, downloaded from PACER.

Skepticon Response: http://docdro.id/eUs7E9S
Richard Carrier Affidavit: http://docdro.id/Padl5q0
Dana Carol Fredsti Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IvzLsVD
David Fitzgerald Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IYxozQD
Spencer Hawkins Affidavit: http://docdro.id/WqX5URS
Heina Dadabhoy Emails: http://docdro.id/VYtvKAz
Lauren Lane Emails: http://docdro.id/TKBmJXe

There are 28 exhibits in total, but most of them are just PDF versions of the allegedly defamatory blog/Facebook posts, and records showing that cease and desist letters were delivered to and received by the various parties. The ones above are the only ones that seem at all interesting.
The response letter from Skepticon's lawyer aligns with my layman's understanding of libel laws. Carrier has no case. I'd love to see Carrier ordered to pay Skepticon's legal fees after this is all over.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3858
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52722

Post by Sunder »

Kirbmarc wrote:A Thunderfoot video on Youtube "Heroes", the new way that Youtube has to give pathetic incentives to people to flag video/add or remove tags/influence searches for them for free by calling them "Heroes"

Someone on Reddit called this very accurately. I don't think as many do that this is some nefarious scheme by Google to promote censorship. It's just another in a long line of companies tricking their userbase into working for them for free, and especially to do the sort of work that automation can't yet handle (think along the lines of Captcha using people to teach computers how to recognize and differentiate objects in photographs). What's especially galling is them touting beta feature access as a prize. "Hey, idiot, do a bunch of unpaid work for us and we'll let you do even MORE unpaid work testing our buggy software before release!"

Clarence
.
.
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:40 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52723

Post by Clarence »

screwtape wrote:
Clarence wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Islam doesn't get to set the parameters of discourse here in the free west. The matter was settled in 1789.
As should be known to anyone with any knowlege of US history, nothing was 'settled' in 1789, even if you ignore all the attacks on the Constitution since 1931, and esp since 2001.
I don't believe the mention of 1789 is supposed to refer to US history. À bas ceux qui fessée jeunes filles japonaises! À la guillotine!


And with respect to the excellent news about Dr Carrier, I am quite sure that both sides realise that neither of them will have any worthwhile reputation after a couple of days in court. This will end with an bare-minimum apology and a sealed settlement involving a small amount of money. Carrier will crow about his victory and FTB etc will do the same. All the same, it will be a joy to watch. Self-destruction is the saddest kind of destruction, and engenders top notch schadenfreude.
March of 1789 was when the US Constitution was ratified and hence, came into effect.
I don't think anything was 'settled' in France in 1789. After all, Napoleonic law and a temporary restoration of the Monarchy was in the future.

screwtape
.
.
Posts: 2713
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:15 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52724

Post by screwtape »

jet_lagg wrote:
CuntajusRationality wrote:Here are some of the exhibits referenced in Carrier's civil complaint, downloaded from PACER.

Skepticon Response: http://docdro.id/eUs7E9S
Richard Carrier Affidavit: http://docdro.id/Padl5q0
Dana Carol Fredsti Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IvzLsVD
David Fitzgerald Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IYxozQD
Spencer Hawkins Affidavit: http://docdro.id/WqX5URS
Heina Dadabhoy Emails: http://docdro.id/VYtvKAz
Lauren Lane Emails: http://docdro.id/TKBmJXe

There are 28 exhibits in total, but most of them are just PDF versions of the allegedly defamatory blog/Facebook posts, and records showing that cease and desist letters were delivered to and received by the various parties. The ones above are the only ones that seem at all interesting.

The response letter from Skepticon's lawyer aligns with my layman's understanding of libel laws. Carrier has no case. I'd love to see Carrier ordered to pay Skepticon's legal fees after this is all over.
That letter also hints they may countersue for breach of contract - for contravening the policy on harrassment he had agreed to on joining the speaker' bureau.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3858
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52725

Post by Sunder »

Hunt wrote:
Really? wrote:Haaa! Looks like Shermer may have kicked in an assist after all:
32 On information and belief, in oraround August 2013, Defendant Myers published and broadcastallegedlyfalse, defamatory, libelous, inaccurate, and misleading statements about another public figure, under similar circumstances, and was the subject of a cease and desist demand.
I can't believe Carrier allowed that in the document, after everything he wrote about Shermer. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Surely the defendants in his case would have enough collective brainpower to do the obvious and cite his own article to show how gung-ho he was at the time.

screwtape
.
.
Posts: 2713
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:15 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52726

Post by screwtape »

Clarence wrote: March of 1789 was when the US Constitution was ratified and hence, came into effect.
I don't think anything was 'settled' in France in 1789. After all, Napoleonic law and a temporary restoration of the Monarchy was in the future.
Thank you; I had not realised it took so long to enshrine the constitution onto law.

HunnyBunny
Pit Sleuth
Pit Sleuth
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Blue

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52727

Post by HunnyBunny »

Oh dear, those Heina emails.

:twatson:

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52728

Post by Brive1987 »

HunnyBunny wrote:Oh dear, those Heina emails.

:twatson:
But at least we now know Lauren likes getting her nipples tweaked.

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52729

Post by deLurch »

Brive1987 wrote:For what it is worth, Carrier does not appear to be shacked up with Amanda but he is unconscionably close to the University.

"keep your babies close to you, there's someone out there"
Is he in hat house that he helped to advertise for a "friend" in Ohio prior to moving there himself?

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52730

Post by Kirbmarc »

jet_lagg wrote:
CuntajusRationality wrote:Here are some of the exhibits referenced in Carrier's civil complaint, downloaded from PACER.

Skepticon Response: http://docdro.id/eUs7E9S
Richard Carrier Affidavit: http://docdro.id/Padl5q0
Dana Carol Fredsti Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IvzLsVD
David Fitzgerald Affidavit: http://docdro.id/IYxozQD
Spencer Hawkins Affidavit: http://docdro.id/WqX5URS
Heina Dadabhoy Emails: http://docdro.id/VYtvKAz
Lauren Lane Emails: http://docdro.id/TKBmJXe

There are 28 exhibits in total, but most of them are just PDF versions of the allegedly defamatory blog/Facebook posts, and records showing that cease and desist letters were delivered to and received by the various parties. The ones above are the only ones that seem at all interesting.
The response letter from Skepticon's lawyer aligns with my layman's understanding of libel laws. Carrier has no case. I'd love to see Carrier ordered to pay Skepticon's legal fees after this is all over.
The funniest thing about the whole mess is that the Skepticon lawyer uses Carrier's own statements to argue both that he violated boundaries and that he's a public figure.
Dr. Carrier has himself publicly admitted to being "not as sensitive to the context of power dynamics as I should have been" when initiating sexual relationships with women, and "especially young women"
Dr. Carrier is undoubtedly a public figure or limited-purpose public figure for the purpose of defamation liability in connection with the Post statements. Dr. Carrier's website and Wikipedia page collectively describe him as a "world-renowned author and speaker" in the field of atheism and naturalism who "has frequently been a featured speaker at various skeptic, secular humanist, freethought, and atheist conventions, such as...the annual Skepticon convention"
The intellectually artillery has been hoisted by its own petard. :lol:

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3858
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52731

Post by Sunder »

I think the best case scenario is Carrier wins, but substantially less than he wants, and it all gets gobbled up in lawyer fees.

At the very least if he just wins the suit against the bearded taint, I'll be happy.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52732

Post by Kirbmarc »

Carrier's story about Amy is also changing. He now claims that while Amy's husband had passed out another man touched Amy, who seemed OK with it, and he simply jokes that he wished that he was that man. Also everybody was slightly drunk, talking about sex and Carrier just mentioned in passing that he had a vasectomy and so he had "better stamina during sex" .

He also says that it was Amy who brought up the subject of open marriage and that her husband was against it.

Carrier said that he only expressed interest in Amy and promised to be around if she got divorced; Amy, according to Carrier, smiled and said that she would consider it.

IF this is true (and that's a big IF) then it's clearly not sexual harassment, and hardly even unprofessional. The context seems relaxed, the remarks are innocuous enough and Amy wasn't exactly expressing some discomfort at Carrier's words. Also he apparently never touched her.

He also says that apparently he assumed that the complaint against him in the SSA was about another event, when misjudged a conversation for flirtation, awkwardly said that he''d have liked to make a pass at her, and immediately apologized when the woman expressed obvious discomfort.

He also apparently asked out Heina Dadhabhoy over an email and backed off when she rejected him.

Again, IF all of this is true I don't think that Carrier is a sexual harasser, and IF all of this is true and he broke some SSA rules then those rules are extremely strict.

Of course it's perfectly possible that Carrier might be lying. The Heina emails seem to show that he was pestering her before she told him to fuck off over his "loveletter" so it's perfectly possible that he might have similarly pestered Amy and then lied or (more worryingly) self-servingly re-interpreted his behavior in a better light.

By way those letters to Heina are the funniest shit ever:
Tricky Dicky Carrier wrote:Competence is erotic. And sharing sexual experiences with incredible women like you is what I want out of life. It only adds that you're pretty. Your eyes just melt me. Lots I'd want to kiss on you. But I don't have your permission to go there here, so I'll just leave it at that.
The same world-renowned author as above wrote:You radiate agency. And that's like a brilliant, warm light you want to embrace and experience passionately. I can go on admiring you from afar, as a writer and a colleague and valuable asset to our movement, and I can go on spending excellent time together with you as a friend when we happen to be around each other. I won't be badly dejected by a no.But if there is any chance you want me, I'm hoping to know.
What a poet and a charmer. :lol: Too bad Heina didn't appreciate being called as a third wheel in a possible threesome. :lol:

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52733

Post by Spike13 »

Really? wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
some guy wrote:[
You obviously didn't read the complaint. It's got sticky all over it.
No but I looked over it. It's a standard legal document. It wasn't written by Carrier. Mostly likely it was written by someone in the employment of Jeffrey T. Perry.

I mean do you really think that Carrier has the skills to right a legal brief? You must actually believe he is the intellectual artillery then.
They did refer to "freethougblogs" several times.
My significant other has been in legal offices her entire career( worked for her dad who was an attorney) and now works for a very large firm in Jersey.

From what I can glean, with the tools available on line it isn't all that difficult to draft fairly competent legal brief these days.( although you need to make sure that it conforms to the practices of the state or county you are in/filing.)

You would not beleive the spelling mistakes on most motions. These thing are drafted and written by people. Spell checkers are a help, but , you also have a lot of technical language which will show errors everywhere where none truly exist. So some do not use them.

It's very possible he could have filed pro se. ( the man does have a doctorate... As he constantly reminds us) going that route can be quite treacherous to the uninitiated unless you have the simplest of cases.

It certainly doesn't take any form of intellectual artillery to do.

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52734

Post by jet_lagg »

My God. This email exchange between Heina and Carrier is a must read.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52735

Post by Hunt »

Sunder wrote: Surely the defendants in his case would have enough collective brainpower to do the obvious and cite his own article to show how gung-ho he was at the time.
Maybe his lawyer thinks that would be immaterial. If it goes to trial, Dog help the poor judge and jury that try it. The learning curve to SJWism can't be easy for sane people.

sp0tlight
.
.
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:17 am
Location: Central Urope

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52736

Post by sp0tlight »

Read the letter to Heina. I think it disabled my erection for at least a week.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52737

Post by Kirbmarc »

HunnyBunny wrote:Oh dear, those Heina emails.

:twatson:
It's like watching a sitcom. Carrier asks Heina to join him in a threesome out of the blue, she says no and he writes her long apologies about how horrible he is. :lol: And she simply says that he annoyed her. :lol:

sp0tlight
.
.
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:17 am
Location: Central Urope

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52738

Post by sp0tlight »

Kirbmarc wrote:
HunnyBunny wrote:Oh dear, those Heina emails.

:twatson:
It's like watching a sitcom. Carrier asks Heina to join him in a threesome out of the blue, she says no and he writes her long apologies about how horrible he is. :lol: And she simply says that he annoyed her. :lol:
His arrogance is a thing of beauty. "Hey, I was about to fuck this chick but maybe you'd go for a threesome?"

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52739

Post by Kirbmarc »

sp0tlight wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
HunnyBunny wrote:Oh dear, those Heina emails.

:twatson:
It's like watching a sitcom. Carrier asks Heina to join him in a threesome out of the blue, she says no and he writes her long apologies about how horrible he is. :lol: And she simply says that he annoyed her. :lol:
His arrogance is a thing of beauty. "Hey, I was about to fuck this chick but maybe you'd go for a threesome?"
I wonder who [name redacted] is, if she even exists.

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#52740

Post by Spike13 »

deLurch wrote:OK. I think I have finally decided who's team I am rooting for in the Carrier case. I am rooting for the lawyers to win big time.

They always win..... I wish both sides a long and expensive struggle!

Locked