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Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18481

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
I'm worried the next Jehovah's Witness to ring the Myers'' doorbell might just get shanked...

... by Peezus dressed as a midwestern farm girl.

Dan
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18482

Post by Dan »

Spike13 wrote:FGM is just that. It involves removing the clitoris, and in many cases binding of the vagina.( to be opened upon the consummation of marriage)

This procedure is normally done upon a young woman reaching puberty, without any anesthetic.
Needless to say it is a brutal, nightmarish practice.

Male circumcisions don't come anywhere close to the level of pain and loss.(as long as the practicioner doesn't totally fuck up and cut off half the guys penis.)

The male is still left with a fully functioning penis. ( as well as a very sleek look)

Comparing the two procedures is pathetic at best and I believe only serves to allow the rad fem types to show what whiners the MRA types are.( and yes anyone making this argument will be portrayed as an MRA)
Just a heads up on the FGM info http://www.circumstitions.com/FGM-defined.html
According to the World Health Organization the following forms of FGM are used:
Description of the different types of female genital mutilation

Female genital mutilation is usually performed by traditional practitioners, generally elderly women in the community specially designated for this task, or traditional birth attendants. In some countries, health professionals trained midwives and physicians are increasingly performing female genital mutilation. In Egypt, for example, preliminary results from the 1995 Demographic and Health Survey indicate that the proportion of women who reported having been circumcised by a doctor was 13%. In contrast, among their most recently circumcised daughters, 46% had been circumcised by a doctor.

The procedures employed in each type of female genital mutilation are described below.

Type I

In the commonest form of this procedure the clitoris is held between the thumb and index finger, pulled out and amputated with one stroke of a sharp object. Bleeding is usually stopped by packing the wound with gauzes or other substances and applying a pressure bandage. Modern trained practitioners may insert one or two stitches around the clitoral artery to stop the bleeding.

Type II

The degree of severity of cutting varies considerably in this type. Commonly the clitoris is amputated as described above and the labia minora are partially or totally removed, often with the same stroke. Bleeding is stopped with packing and bandages or by a few circular stitches which may or may not cover the urethra and part of the vaginal opening. There are reported cases of extensive excisions which heal with fusion of the raw surfaces, resulting in pseudo-infibulation even though there has been no stitching. Types I and II generally account for 80-85% of all female genital mutilation, although the proportion may vary greatly from country to country.

Type III

The amount of tissue removed is extensive. The most extreme form involves the complete removal of the clitoris and labia minora, together with the inner surface of the labia majora. The raw edges of the labia majora are brought together to fuse, using thorns, poultices or stitching to hold them in place, and the legs are tied together for 2-6 weeks. The healed scar creates a hood of skin which covers the urethra and part or most of the vagina, and which acts as a physical barrier to intercourse. A small opening is left at the back to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. The opening is surrounded by skin and scar tissue and is usually 2-3 cm in diameter but may be as small as the head of a matchstick.

If after infibulation the posterior opening is large enough, sexual intercourse can take place after gradual dilatation, which may take weeks, months or, in some recorded cases, as long as two years. If the opening is too small to start the dilatation, recutting (defibulation) before intercourse is traditionally undertaken by the husband or one of his female relatives using a sharp knife or a piece of glass. Modern couples may seek the assistance of a trained health professional, although this is done in secrecy, possibly because it might undermine the social image of the man's virility.

In almost all cases of infibulation and in many cases of severe excision, defibulation must also be performed during childbirth to allow exit of the fetal head without tearing the surrounding scar tissue. If no experienced birth attendant is available to perform defibulation, fetal and/or maternal complications may occur because of obstructed labour or perineal tears. Traditionally, "re-infibulation" is performed after the woman gives birth. The raw edges are stitched together again to create a small posterior opening, often the same size as that which existed before marriage. This is done to create the illusion of virginity, since a tight vaginal opening is culturally perceived as more pleasurable to the man. Because of the extent of both the initial and repeated cutting and suturing, the physical, sexual and psychological effects of infibulation are greater and longer-lasting than for other types of female genital mutilation.

Although only an estimated 15-20% of all women who experience genital mutilation undergo type III, in certain countries such as Djibouti, Somalia and Sudan the proportion is 80-90%. Infibulation is practised on a smaller scale in parts of Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Kenya and Mali, and may occur in other communities where information is lacking or still incomplete.

Type IV

Type IV female genital mutilation encompasses a variety of procedures, most of which are self-explanatory. Two procedures are described here.

The term "angurya cuts" describes the scraping of the tissue around the vaginal opening. "Gishiri cuts" are posterior (or backward) cuts from the vagina into the perineum as an attempt to increase the vaginal outlet to relieve obstructed labour. They often result in vesicovaginal fistulae and damage to the anal sphincter.

There is no mention of removing only the clitoral hood as described by Dr. Nowa Omoigui.

While the clitoris is the analogue of the glans penis, it should not be assumed that it is innervated in the same way. The evidence is that the glans clitoris is far more sensitive than the glans penis, and that the nearest analogue to the clitoris in sensitivity is the male foreskin.






Incidence of different types of FGM

Among the Bedouins of Israel none of the 37 women examined was mutilated. They all had only small scars on the prepuce of the clitoris and/or the upper 1 cm of the labia minora near the clitoral prepuce.

Asali A, Khamaysi N, Aburabia Y, Letzer S, Halihal B, Sadovsky M, et al.
Ritual female genital surgery among Bedouin in Israel.
Arch Sex Behav 1995;24:571-5.

Upon physical examination of the other group, Ethiopian Jews, which resides now in Israel and performed female genital mutilation in Ethiopia, 63% of the women, who all claimed to have been circumcised, did not even have a scar! 20% had scars, in 7%, one square centimeter of the labia minora was removed from beneath the clitoris and only 10% demonstrated a real and severe form of female genital mutilation, total amputation of the clitoris.

Grisaru N, Letzer S, Belmaker RH.
Ritual Female Genital Surgery Among Ethiopian Jews.
Arch Sex Behav 1997;26:211-5.

This does not speak about the severity of FGM in any other community, and it does not in any way mitigate the human rights abuse of FGM.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18483

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
It's beautiful. Any follow up, Matt? Do you really believe there were multiple authors or one author with poor control over their faked style? Troll or one of Meyers's cronies? Laden?
Thanks for everyone's interest. I have answers to / thoughts on what everyone's brought up so far. Can I ask a favor, and have you all pose them in the comments section of the original piece? Then I can answer them just once.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18484

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
I'm worried the next Jehovah's Witness to ring the Myers'' doorbell might just get shanked...

... by Peezus dressed as a midwestern farm girl.
Paging Ape+Lust!!!!

Guestus Aurelius
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18485

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
I'm worried the next Jehovah's Witness to ring the Myers'' doorbell might just get shanked...

... by Peezus dressed as a midwestern farm girl.
Paging Ape+Lust!!!!
[youtube]fhGGJe-ant8[/youtube]

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18486

Post by welch »

real horrorshow wrote:
welch wrote:
real horrorshow wrote: Actually welch, it reads more like you are the one playing the zero-sum game while accusing others of it. Mr Radio's argument seems to be the same as mine: All non-consensual non-medically-necessitated genital mutilation is wrong and should be stopped.

You are the one insisting that FGM is always "worse" than MGM (which is not true) and therefore more emphasis must be placed on FGM. Even if it were the case that all FGM is "worse" than all MGM, or the other way about, or if both were always exactly equally bad they are both equally wrong in moral terms. They are both unnecessary violations of a non-consenting child's bodily autonomy.

Or are you making the rad fem's argument by claiming that attention drawn to MGM is a deliberate tactic to draw attention away from FGM? Some kind of pro-cutter plot?
See, I tried for some vague form of being reasonable on this before, even though I was pretty sure it was going to fail, because the issue is far too emotional. I was pretty right about the failure thing. So on this issue, you decide what and how you want me to think on it, and rest your worried mind that I do indeed think that to whatever limits make you most comfortable.
Right. Is it gaslighting or lampshading when you accuse those you disagree with of using the wonky argument that, actually, you are using. Maybe we should call it lamplighting? Or welching?

Still, I can see how pointing out a failure in logic is clear proof that I'm getting all emotional. And the most important thing is that you get to tell everyone you're more right than anyone else - xkcd meme. Oh, and to tell us all - once again - that you aren't taking part in the discussion while posting more than everyone else combined. What comes next "hA hA I TROLL U"? You're being so oolon I need a shit.
No, it's not some stupid plan that ends in !trolling. It's just clear you have no interest in any viewpoint other than your own. So I'm not going to even attempt to discuss it, because there cannot be a discussion in that situation. It's pointless, and ultimately a waste of our time. Whatever you wish to think that makes you right, and gives you the victory, it's yours with two bags full.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18487

Post by welch »

Spike13 wrote:The fact that I don't have a problem with circumcision (as well as the fact stated that my sons had it done)pretty much implies that I do have an opinion.

You can't help but notice the ethical grounds often stated. I was merely suggesting that some people may have other motives as well.
You are beginning to see why this is a topic that goes in the same bin as abortion and gun control I think.

Southern
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18488

Post by Southern »

Some Lurker wrote:Anita Sarkeesian is being attacked by SJWs for her views on sex workers as expressed in her latest video.
(Oh Happy Day) :dance:
If that happens... oh, the schandenfreude, it will taste delicious.

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18489

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Opyt wrote:So. I somehow managed to find a feminist law student. I brought up innocent until proven guilty, and she agreed that it was important. She then told me that the burden of proof for rape should not be on the survivor/victim. Full tweet here if interested.

Also, despite being flagged for some kind of blockbot listing by VitaBrevi for "dogpile", I don't seem to be listed on the blockbot. I guess I'm not on it after all. Yet.
The burden of proof should be on the prosecutor.

Really?
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18490

Post by Really? »

Tigzy wrote:Ooley doth quench his butthurt by going on a mass botting spree. Somehow, James...I think you're playing with fire a bit, mate.

http://i.imgur.com/iYIH6Ps.png
Oolon already challenged 4chan several months ago. If I knew how, I would try to get them going against him, too.
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:So it turns out that the Twitter SJW's are only now coming to the shocking realisation that the #EndFathersDay hashtag was an elaborate troll by 4chan. A troll that they gladly went along with when they thought it was invented by one of their own.
Hence the new #YourSlipIsShowing tag where they can congregate and moan about how evil 4chan is for getting them to reveal their bigotry.
Check it out. Many LOLs and much butthurt abound.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/YourSlipIsShowing?src=hash
I don't know which of these two made me laugh more. ourse I do: Parsehole's a genius.

http://i.imgur.com/zjBmCMi.png

http://i.imgur.com/Ak5fgtH.png
:clap: :auto-dirtbike:
jugheadnaut wrote:
Really? wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:
For obvious reasons, it's necessary to use adult circumcision in studies that are looking for before/after trends. This study isn't definitive, but is a pretty solid piece of evidence. Delayed orgasm is more a discrete condition rather than a continuous one, such as if they asked about sensitivity, and this gives the survey participants answers on the subject more credence. And the numerical difference is pretty huge as well, so it's hard to believe something isn't going on.

Here are two additional studies that also showed an increase in delayed orgasm after adult circumcision.

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/e ... 4.abstract
http://www.webmd.com/men/news/20040202/ ... erformance

I'd be interested to see a study that compared incidence of delayed orgasm in circumcised vs. intact population groups, but a quick search didn't reveal any.
On the other hand, I'm not sure your thoughts and logic are coherent enough to care about if you were circumcised as an adult for anything but some one-in-a-billion medical reason.
I don't understand your point, but I'm not going to get myself in trouble again, so I'll just keep quiet unless you care to elaborate.
I think we're in agreement. My point is that my primary concern is that I'm confused why we mutilate the genitals of young boys in the first place. I enjoy the scientific aspect of what you're saying, but I think the world would be better if we just stopped slicing up babies.

Southern
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18491

Post by Southern »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
I'm worried the next Jehovah's Witness to ring the Myers'' doorbell might just get shanked...

... by Peezus dressed as a midwestern farm girl.
Paging Ape+Lust!!!!
Oh Jesus... now I'm fearing for my sanity if I ever come back to the pit again! I barely managed to survive intact to the last Ape+Lust's PZ, I think that a midwestern farm girl PZ will be the last straw... oh God, think of the happy place, think of the happy place...

Southern
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18492

Post by Southern »

welch wrote:
Spike13 wrote:The fact that I don't have a problem with circumcision (as well as the fact stated that my sons had it done)pretty much implies that I do have an opinion.

You can't help but notice the ethical grounds often stated. I was merely suggesting that some people may have other motives as well.
You are beginning to see why this is a topic that goes in the same bin as abortion and gun control I think.
But not on the same bin as the dual-wielding Palestinian hammer x single-wield thumbless Israeli guitar.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18493

Post by welch »

jugheadnaut wrote:
welch wrote:
John D wrote: You haven't met my wife!
It's also not about people circumcised as infants, but rather as adults. I would expect them to notice a difference. The question is, how much of it is actually measurable, and how much is what they "remember" it being.
For obvious reasons, it's necessary to use adult circumcision in studies that are looking for before/after trends. This study isn't definitive, but is a pretty solid piece of evidence. Delayed orgasm is more a discrete condition rather than a continuous one, such as if they asked about sensitivity, and this gives the survey participants answers on the subject more credence. And the numerical difference is pretty huge as well, so it's hard to believe something isn't going on.

Here are two additional studies that also showed an increase in delayed orgasm after adult circumcision.

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/e ... 4.abstract
http://www.webmd.com/men/news/20040202/ ... erformance

I'd be interested to see a study that compared incidence of delayed orgasm in circumcised vs. intact population groups, but a quick search didn't reveal any.
Since you seem to have some interest in voices that aren't yours: the problem is, no one is bitching about adults getting circumcised. That's a non-issue. However, there are some problems:

1) Adults heal differently and slower than infants. That's going to affect things like those survey results. (note, to avoid confusion: while I agree that surveys can be done badly, and can lead one astray, I don't consider them inherently (un)reliable. One just has to be more careful when using their data is all.)

2) Adults feel pain very differently from children. That's going to affect things in this case.

3) We assume that most male children aren't overly interested in sex as a thing until puberty. There's some exceptions, but I'm unaware of that assumption being completely wrong, or so wrong as to be unreliable. Whereas an adult male who just had surgery on his penis is going to be VERY aware of how it works in terms of sex afterwards. Any difference is going to be magnified, and understandably so. An infant is not exactly going to care about that for some years.

4) An adult who becomes circumcised will have to spend some real amount of time getting used to "the new normal". Given how reliant sex is on perception, that's going to affect their view on things. I'd wonder if someone asked them 20 years afterwards how they felt about it, if their answers might change. (this may have happened to different subjects.)

5) Related to 4), someone circumcised as an infant, only days old is not going to have any coherent memories of what their penis "should" look like. For all intents and purposes, that's the only way their penis has ever looked or worked. It is, for them, normal, regardless of what other people think.

An analogy is asking an only child about siblings. Speaking as one, most of the questions are well-meaning, but ultimately, I can't really answer them. I have no idea what it would be like to have a sibling, I cannot tell you if I'd ever wanted one other than the occasional "it would be nice to have someone around to play with all the time", which kind of ignores a lot of the reality of siblings. I don't have any idea, whatsoever, of what it is really like to grow up with them. My observations tell me that sibling relationships are as varied as the people in them, so I'm not sure anyone with a sibling can answer that for anyone but themselves without resorting to platitude.

Same thing with being circumcised. I confess to a mild curiosity as to what it would be like to not be circumcised, but that's like wondering what it would be like to be really tall or really short or what have you. It's an interesting thought model, but I can't say I have ever bemoaned my horrible fate to wander the earth in this horribly mutilated state. Shit works well enough for me. The fact that someone else's dick may work better, or worse isn't of any real importance. Everyone's different. I have no way to know what being uncircumcised is like on any level. I can't even tell you what being circumcised is like for anyone but me, and I can tell you in that case, I really haven't spent a lot of thought on it. It's how I've always been. I can tell you more what it's like to have been very blonde as a young child and have your hair color change than I can tell you what it's like to be uncircumcised. Which is why a lot of the sexual function arguments fall flat for many people.

I agree that you don't have many options other than people who were circumcised as adults, and i don't think the survey was badly done, or trying to mislead. I just think trying to apply the results to people who have never been any other way isn't going to work all that well.

James Caruthers
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18494

Post by James Caruthers »

Well, seeing as how every major political group in the USA at least pays lip service to feminism, it's only a matter of time until they kick that pesky Presumption of Innocence out of our legal system.

Enjoy having to prove you're not guilty of thoughtrape, you filthy HERETICS!

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... alleus.png

jugheadnaut
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18495

Post by jugheadnaut »

Service Dog wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote: ...She has an advanced case of Twitter Disease, where after many years of being relieved of the duty of supporting your statements and just making empty proclamations, you start tweeting out facts from your fantasy world as if they were facts from the real world....
I'm siding with the feminist law student. Placing the burden of proof on the accuser "shouldn't be".

That's a perfectly-true statement. Along with other things that shouldn't be:

-Beloved family pets struck down by cars right in front of innocent children? Shouldn't be!
-Good people suffering while bad people prosper? That shouldn't be!
-Racism?... Shouldn't be!
-Censorship of free speech?... why, that shouldn't be, either!

-Having to make difficult judgement calls when competing values collide? (such as whether racist free speech should be censored?)... well it simply Shouldn't Be that we have to do something so difficult.
I was referring to her first sentence "the burden of proof is placed upon the defendant to disprove". That's a positive statement, and obviously false. Then she puts a foot back into the real world and gives a normative statement that at least is debatable.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18496

Post by welch »

Sunder wrote:
welch wrote:While the majority of video games use male protagonists, to make it seem like it's the entire industry, or that female protagonists are some weird aberration, that's really not correct. Off the top of my head, major current and past releases with female protagonists (that i know about/have played):

Baldur's Gate (all)
Neverwinter Nights (all)
Mass Effect (all)
Tomb Raider*
Metroid (Prime)*
Dragon Age (All)
Icewind Dale (all)
Silent Hill 3
parts of King's Quest
Resident Evil (may be all, unsure)
Pretty much every MMO ever
Elder Scrolls, (may be all, unsure prior to oblivion)
The SSI Gold Box D&D series
Saint's Row 4 (May be the others, only played that one)
Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate the list gets a LOT shorter if you don't count most RPGs, which are arguably just artificially inflating the count. Plus if you're the sort of uber-nerd who cares about "official" continuity (as I can be at times) it's worth noting which stories are canonical and which aren't. For example, you could beat the first Diablo as the female rogue...but Diablo II definitively states that he was killed by the male warrior. You could play KotOR with a female Revan, but canon outside the games says Revan was male (although the Exile from KotOR II is canonically female so that series balances out). But the overall point is that it's probably better to focus on narratives that are written specifically for female protagonists than games where you can play as anyone.
Okay, but now you're artificially limiting things. If someone wants to argue about gender balance in specific genres, but that's not the argument I've seen, and it certainly doesn't seem to be the main one. As well, canon outside the game starts to get tricky, since canon can be changed at will, whereas that's a bit harder to do with a videogame.

And, in listening to most of the sane complaints, (because again, fuck listening to idiots and loons, life's too short), most of the folks complaining don't require a strictly female or male protagonist. They would be quite happy with a well-done choice. That would be really totally awesome for them. I tend to only play male protagonists, but I enjoy watching my wife play the same game as someone completely different and seeing how things change. It's kind of neat. My son will play either, sometimes just to see the differences up close as it were.

if more games worked a bit more to offer more options, you'd definitely satisfy the center of mass.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18497

Post by welch »

Spike13 wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Spike13 wrote:
It appears that the feline has received deliverance from her textile confinement.
It wasn't funny the first time. Perhaps being able to talk isn't the only thing you need somebody to teach you.

Aww, buoytony doesn't like me,

I'm all broken up.

Let me reach into my bag of "shits to give"

Oh dear there's nothing there!
you'll know you've arrived when people who are ignoring you still complain about you.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18498

Post by welch »

Opyt wrote:So. I somehow managed to find a feminist law student. I brought up innocent until proven guilty, and she agreed that it was important. She then told me that the burden of proof for rape should not be on the survivor/victim. Full tweet here if interested.

Also, despite being flagged for some kind of blockbot listing by VitaBrevi for "dogpile", I don't seem to be listed on the blockbot. I guess I'm not on it after all. Yet.
That would seem to be at odds with how things actually work. The burden of proof is really specifically on the plaintiff in such cases. the defendant doesn't even have to testify, (and often shouldn't.)

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18499

Post by welch »

Some Lurker wrote:Anita Sarkeesian is being attacked by SJWs for her views on sex workers as expressed in her latest video.
(Oh Happy Day) :dance:
well that's surprising.










not really.

Sulman
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18500

Post by Sulman »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/e ... s?s=mobile Soundly beaten at their own game. The very suitability of Twitter for nuance free dogma used to turn the battlefield upside down by trolls.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18501

Post by welch »

Southern wrote:
welch wrote:
Spike13 wrote:The fact that I don't have a problem with circumcision (as well as the fact stated that my sons had it done)pretty much implies that I do have an opinion.

You can't help but notice the ethical grounds often stated. I was merely suggesting that some people may have other motives as well.
You are beginning to see why this is a topic that goes in the same bin as abortion and gun control I think.
But not on the same bin as the dual-wielding Palestinian hammer x single-wield thumbless Israeli guitar.
is that before or after it fucks every woman you do, ever have, or ever will know?

Really?
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18502

Post by Really? »

Sulman wrote:http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/e ... s?s=mobile Soundly beaten at their own game. The very suitability of Twitter for nuance free dogma used to turn the battlefield upside down by trolls.
Precisely. I appreciate your powerful and concise statement so much that I'm awarding you one Hitch.

http://www.brainpickings.org/wp-content ... /hitch.jpg

jugheadnaut
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18503

Post by jugheadnaut »

welch wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:
welch wrote:
It's also not about people circumcised as infants, but rather as adults. I would expect them to notice a difference. The question is, how much of it is actually measurable, and how much is what they "remember" it being.
For obvious reasons, it's necessary to use adult circumcision in studies that are looking for before/after trends. This study isn't definitive, but is a pretty solid piece of evidence. Delayed orgasm is more a discrete condition rather than a continuous one, such as if they asked about sensitivity, and this gives the survey participants answers on the subject more credence. And the numerical difference is pretty huge as well, so it's hard to believe something isn't going on.

Here are two additional studies that also showed an increase in delayed orgasm after adult circumcision.

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/e ... 4.abstract
http://www.webmd.com/men/news/20040202/ ... erformance

I'd be interested to see a study that compared incidence of delayed orgasm in circumcised vs. intact population groups, but a quick search didn't reveal any.
Since you seem to have some interest in voices that aren't yours: the problem is, no one is bitching about adults getting circumcised. That's a non-issue. However, there are some problems:
...
Of course I'm not bringing up adult circumcision studies to criticize adult circumcision. I've routinely referred to the issue under contention as childhood ritual circumcision in my posts, and have said that as far as I'm concerned, adults can do as they please. I'm mentioning adult circumcision studies because they seem to be the predominant studies available on the subject, and the only way you can do true before/after studies. Your criticisms probably have some validity, and one can't just blindly assume that the long-term effects of circumcision on adults will be exactly the same as the effects on children. But to just assume these results have no applicability to childhood circumcision has no basis. As I said, these studies are not definitive but provide evidence. On the subject of how applicable they are to childhood circumcision, I'd be interested in hearing the views of our physician Pitters, who actually know what they're talking about.

Spike13
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Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18504

Post by Spike13 »

welch wrote:
Spike13 wrote:The fact that I don't have a problem with circumcision (as well as the fact stated that my sons had it done)pretty much implies that I do have an opinion.

You can't help but notice the ethical grounds often stated. I was merely suggesting that some people may have other motives as well.
You are beginning to see why this is a topic that goes in the same bin as abortion and gun control I think.

Yes. I do believe I do.

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18505

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

I think anyone biting on this is going off the deep end with a tin foil hat.
Mykeru wrote:So yeah, the “drop off” into sloppy is pronounced and really, teenage girl writing is hardly ever this cramped and angular.

Thing is, we’ve all seen teenage girls writing, which tends to be round and loopy and, for lack of a better word “precious” and this letter displays none of the hallmarks of the purported.
gender or age.
That may have been true, but cursive is no longer a required course in school. The son of a woman I was dating had never learned to write in cursive. It is all printed letters & typing. So how loopy & flowing do you expect an average teen girl's writing to be if the average teen girl was never taught cursive in school?

acathode
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18506

Post by acathode »

About the female main character stuff... screw that. If you wanna make lists that are supposedly somewhat relevant to gender equality, I'll say this: Female villains is where it's at!

There are quite a few games featuring kickass heroins, but female villains? There's like:
http://i.imgur.com/EYnucXE.jpg?1
and then I dunno, the lame evil mastermind sorceress in Final Fantasy 8, and then what, you have to start scraping the barrel with AIs like GLaDOS and SHODAN?
Real equality will only be had when women are as allowed to be just as evil as the menz!!!! :D

Really?
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18507

Post by Really? »

SoylentAtheist wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

I think anyone biting on this is going off the deep end with a tin foil hat.
Mykeru wrote:So yeah, the “drop off” into sloppy is pronounced and really, teenage girl writing is hardly ever this cramped and angular.

Thing is, we’ve all seen teenage girls writing, which tends to be round and loopy and, for lack of a better word “precious” and this letter displays none of the hallmarks of the purported.
gender or age.
That may have been true, but cursive is no longer a required course in school. The son of a woman I was dating had never learned to write in cursive. It is all printed letters & typing. So how loopy & flowing do you expect an average teen girl's writing to be if the average teen girl was never taught cursive in school?
Aw, come on. Trophy Wife 2.0 is a special woman. Why you hatin'?

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18508

Post by welch »

acathode wrote:About the female main character stuff... screw that. If you wanna make lists that are supposedly somewhat relevant to gender equality, I'll say this: Female villains is where it's at!

There are quite a few games featuring kickass heroins, but female villains? There's like:
http://i.imgur.com/EYnucXE.jpg?1
and then I dunno, the lame evil mastermind sorceress in Final Fantasy 8, and then what, you have to start scraping the barrel with AIs like GLaDOS and SHODAN?
Real equality will only be had when women are as allowed to be just as evil as the menz!!!! :D
D&D type games tend to be more willing to have women as villains. Neverwinter Nights 1 had a couple of decent ones. Dragon Age 2 is another example. Throne of Bhaal.

But that's a good point. Part of equity is having really good villains of all stripes.

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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18509

Post by James Caruthers »

acathode wrote:About the female main character stuff... screw that. If you wanna make lists that are supposedly somewhat relevant to gender equality, I'll say this: Female villains is where it's at!

There are quite a few games featuring kickass heroins, but female villains? There's like:
http://i.imgur.com/EYnucXE.jpg?1
and then I dunno, the lame evil mastermind sorceress in Final Fantasy 8, and then what, you have to start scraping the barrel with AIs like GLaDOS and SHODAN?
Real equality will only be had when women are as allowed to be just as evil as the menz!!!! :D
When it comes to female villains, video games are doing a hell of a lot better than movies. Most movies only dare to have a female villain if they can design a backstory for her that makes all her badness the fault of TEH MENZ.

DownThunder
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18510

Post by DownThunder »

Spike13 wrote:I honestly wonder how much of this is grievance theatre and how much of it is resentment.
Resentment would be a natural and common reaction to being violated, then having large portions of society minimise, deny and mock your emotional state. Using that emotional state as a weapon, as you are doing, is a weak argument and generally low act.

Spike13
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Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18511

Post by Spike13 »

James Caruthers wrote:
acathode wrote:About the female main character stuff... screw that. If you wanna make lists that are supposedly somewhat relevant to gender equality, I'll say this: Female villains is where it's at!

There are quite a few games featuring kickass heroins, but female villains? There's like:
http://i.imgur.com/EYnucXE.jpg?1
and then I dunno, the lame evil mastermind sorceress in Final Fantasy 8, and then what, you have to start scraping the barrel with AIs like GLaDOS and SHODAN?
Real equality will only be had when women are as allowed to be just as evil as the menz!!!! :D
When it comes to female villains, video games are doing a hell of a lot better than movies. Most movies only dare to have a female villain if they can design a backstory for her that makes all her badness the fault of TEH MENZ.
But to even attempt to get the ever elusive rad fem seal of approval you would need a female protagonist as well.

This protagonist must not solve problems with guns or fisticuffs ( too male like) and she shouldn't look too buff or fit...perhaps blue or red hair...Elton John glasses...Fluvogs....attired in dorm room chic.

jugheadnaut
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18512

Post by jugheadnaut »

SoylentAtheist wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

I think anyone biting on this is going off the deep end with a tin foil hat.
Mykeru wrote:So yeah, the “drop off” into sloppy is pronounced and really, teenage girl writing is hardly ever this cramped and angular.

Thing is, we’ve all seen teenage girls writing, which tends to be round and loopy and, for lack of a better word “precious” and this letter displays none of the hallmarks of the purported.
gender or age.
That may have been true, but cursive is no longer a required course in school. The son of a woman I was dating had never learned to write in cursive. It is all printed letters & typing. So how loopy & flowing do you expect an average teen girl's writing to be if the average teen girl was never taught cursive in school?
I did a quick search on forensic analysis of handwriting to see if there were simple signs to look for if a document was written by someone trying to fake their handwriting and came up with this:

http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.c ... rgery.html

It's from a web site that gives an introduction to various forensic techniques and appears credible. Here's the salient content:
The most common clue of fraudulent handwriting is the poor line quality of the handwriting (it loses the smooth lines and becomes uneven). The most common methods of trying to disguise the handwriting are using the reverse slant of writing, changing capital letters or using the opposite hand. A good way to tell if a document is disguised is by looking toward the end of a document to see if the style remains the same. Try using the methods above to conceal your handwriting in a letter. You will see at the end that it gets harder to keep the same style of writing throughout.
Don't we see many of these in this document? Poor line control, becoming increasingly uneven? Check. Changing capital letters? Check. Different style toward the end of the document? Check.

Frankly, I was skeptical about whether this was a forgery but now I think there's a good chance there's something to it.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Location: Somewhere in the pipes

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18513

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

welch wrote:
Opyt wrote:So. I somehow managed to find a feminist law student. I brought up innocent until proven guilty, and she agreed that it was important. She then told me that the burden of proof for rape should not be on the survivor/victim. Full tweet here if interested.

Also, despite being flagged for some kind of blockbot listing by VitaBrevi for "dogpile", I don't seem to be listed on the blockbot. I guess I'm not on it after all. Yet.
That would seem to be at odds with how things actually work. The burden of proof is really specifically on the plaintiff in such cases. the defendant doesn't even have to testify, (and often shouldn't.)
WTF? Somebody defending themselves from a rape accusation doesn't have to testify? And often shouldn't? Weird fuckin' Florida law, huh?

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18514

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Really? wrote:Aw, come on. Trophy Wife 2.0 is a special woman. Why you hatin'?
I want it to be true. But wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. The interpretation presented is highly subjective & flimsy.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18515

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

SoylentAtheist wrote: pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

but cursive is no longer a required course in school.
1) Nope.
2) QED.

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18516

Post by SoylentAtheist »

jugheadnaut wrote:
SoylentAtheist wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

I think anyone biting on this is going off the deep end with a tin foil hat.
Mykeru wrote:So yeah, the “drop off” into sloppy is pronounced and really, teenage girl writing is hardly ever this cramped and angular.

Thing is, we’ve all seen teenage girls writing, which tends to be round and loopy and, for lack of a better word “precious” and this letter displays none of the hallmarks of the purported.
gender or age.
That may have been true, but cursive is no longer a required course in school. The son of a woman I was dating had never learned to write in cursive. It is all printed letters & typing. So how loopy & flowing do you expect an average teen girl's writing to be if the average teen girl was never taught cursive in school?
I did a quick search on forensic analysis of handwriting to see if there were simple signs to look for if a document was written by someone trying to fake their handwriting and came up with this:

http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.c ... rgery.html

It's from a web site that gives an introduction to various forensic techniques and appears credible. Here's the salient content:
The most common clue of fraudulent handwriting is the poor line quality of the handwriting (it loses the smooth lines and becomes uneven). The most common methods of trying to disguise the handwriting are using the reverse slant of writing, changing capital letters or using the opposite hand. A good way to tell if a document is disguised is by looking toward the end of a document to see if the style remains the same. Try using the methods above to conceal your handwriting in a letter. You will see at the end that it gets harder to keep the same style of writing throughout.
Don't we see many of these in this document? Poor line control, becoming increasingly uneven? Check. Changing capital letters? Check. Different style toward the end of the document? Check.

Frankly, I was skeptical about whether this was a forgery but now I think there's a good chance there's something to it.
I am not about to bite on this unless Matt or someone else here who has reviewed the document happens to be a professional forensic hand writing expert.

jugheadnaut
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18517

Post by jugheadnaut »

SoylentAtheist wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote: I did a quick search on forensic analysis of handwriting to see if there were simple signs to look for if a document was written by someone trying to fake their handwriting and came up with this:

http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.c ... rgery.html

It's from a web site that gives an introduction to various forensic techniques and appears credible. Here's the salient content:
The most common clue of fraudulent handwriting is the poor line quality of the handwriting (it loses the smooth lines and becomes uneven). The most common methods of trying to disguise the handwriting are using the reverse slant of writing, changing capital letters or using the opposite hand. A good way to tell if a document is disguised is by looking toward the end of a document to see if the style remains the same. Try using the methods above to conceal your handwriting in a letter. You will see at the end that it gets harder to keep the same style of writing throughout.
Don't we see many of these in this document? Poor line control, becoming increasingly uneven? Check. Changing capital letters? Check. Different style toward the end of the document? Check.

Frankly, I was skeptical about whether this was a forgery but now I think there's a good chance there's something to it.
I am not about to bite on this unless Matt or someone else here who has reviewed the document happens to be a professional forensic hand writing expert.
My forensic handwriting experts are Mr. Dunning and Mr. Kruger. ;)

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18518

Post by Opyt »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:WTF? Somebody defending themselves from a rape accusation doesn't have to testify? And often shouldn't? Weird fuckin' Florida law, huh?
Not just Florida. Apparently US & Canada.

Ape+lust
Pit Art Master
Pit Art Master
Posts: 7364
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18519

Post by Ape+lust »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
I'm worried the next Jehovah's Witness to ring the Myers'' doorbell might just get shanked...

... by Peezus dressed as a midwestern farm girl.
Paging Ape+Lust!!!!
:whistle:

http://imgur.com/O0o72Zn.jpg

:D

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18520

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Opyt wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:WTF? Somebody defending themselves from a rape accusation doesn't have to testify? And often shouldn't? Weird fuckin' Florida law, huh?
Not just Florida. Apparently US & Canada.
I'm pretty sure that that applies to the accuser, not the defendant. It's to prevent trauma and stress to the victim, not the person defending themselves against the allegation(s). The defendant being the one accused.

Sunder
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18521

Post by Sunder »

welch wrote:Okay, but now you're artificially limiting things. If someone wants to argue about gender balance in specific genres, but that's not the argument I've seen, and it certainly doesn't seem to be the main one. As well, canon outside the game starts to get tricky, since canon can be changed at will, whereas that's a bit harder to do with a videogame.

And, in listening to most of the sane complaints, (because again, fuck listening to idiots and loons, life's too short), most of the folks complaining don't require a strictly female or male protagonist. They would be quite happy with a well-done choice. That would be really totally awesome for them. I tend to only play male protagonists, but I enjoy watching my wife play the same game as someone completely different and seeing how things change. It's kind of neat. My son will play either, sometimes just to see the differences up close as it were.

if more games worked a bit more to offer more options, you'd definitely satisfy the center of mass.
To get it out of the way my personal belief is creators should be free to create whatever kind of stories appeal to them, period. I don't like any kind of dictates about what people should create other than simply audience demand.

My point was just that the roleplaying genre is a different beast than others and should be considered somewhat differently. Traditional RPGs are games have virtually no limitations on what kind of character you can play. Video game RPGs are limited by technology, budget, and time, but in general share this openness, as do many sandbox games.

And while I admire the ability to choose in games like that, I don't think it's a good solution for every kind of story. In fact, similar choice systems in such games like the traditional good/evil ending feel tacked on much of the time. And with rare exceptions like Shepard from Mass Effect, it's not the custom player characters of RPGs who become the pop culture icons of gaming. It's the characters who have established and canonical personalities.

Suet Cardigan
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Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:26 am
Location: England, a bastion of barbarism and cluelessness

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18522

Post by Suet Cardigan »

http://imgur.com/O0o72Zn.jpg



Another classis, Ape+Lust!

I love the knife stuck through his copy of The God Delusion.

Ape+lust
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18523

Post by Ape+lust »

Bonus, since I see Mykeru around:


Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18524

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

jugheadnaut wrote:I first saw her on Firefly about 10 years ago, I pretty much had to physically hold my jaw off the floor the entire episode. And this is a show that had Gina Torres and Morena Baccarin as regulars, so I should have been inured to the effect spectacular women while watching.
Ahhhh, Saffron.

Great female cast on Firefly. (don't forget Summer Glau & Jewel Staite!) And Whedon gets slammed by radfems for writing weak female characters ?!

'Twas nice to encounter Baccarin again in Homeland.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18525

Post by Opyt »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Opyt wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:WTF? Somebody defending themselves from a rape accusation doesn't have to testify? And often shouldn't? Weird fuckin' Florida law, huh?
Not just Florida. Apparently US & Canada.
I'm pretty sure that that applies to the accuser, not the defendant. It's to prevent trauma and stress to the victim, not the person defending themselves against the allegation(s). The defendant being the one accused.
Ah, my bad, I was reading and not comprehending. The defendant being there is probably required, as when the defendant loses, they're probably going to be carted off to a jail cell.

Yeah, the accused has to be there, but at this point the only defense that can be given is literally: "she gave consent". Unless it's received in writing, or recorded in audio or on video, the defendant can't prove one way or the other, at which point it's up to the jury to decide whether or not the crime was committed. It's literally a he-said she-said case at this point, which, in my eyes, takes away from the validity of the "97% of rapists don't serve a day of jail time." thing that got tossed out early in the conversation. It's just kind of disappointing that it's up to the defendant to prove that they didn't commit the crime whereas in other crimes, it's the prosecutor's job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It's going to be interesting if she (the person I was tweeting with) turns out to be a prosecutor, if only because maybe she will be able to prove it to a jury. It really looks like a crusade against penis, but I can't prove that myself.

jugheadnaut
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18526

Post by jugheadnaut »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:I first saw her on Firefly about 10 years ago, I pretty much had to physically hold my jaw off the floor the entire episode. And this is a show that had Gina Torres and Morena Baccarin as regulars, so I should have been inured to the effect spectacular women while watching.
Ahhhh, Saffron.

Great female cast on Firefly. (don't forget Summer Glau & Jewel Staite!) And Whedon gets slammed by radfems for writing weak female characters ?!

'Twas nice to encounter Baccarin again in Homeland.
Yes, and it was especially nice that we got to encounter a lot more of Baccarin in Homeland. :drool:

Every time I hear Summer Glau's name I get pangs of regret about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Damn, that show deserved another couple of seasons.

Ape+lust
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18527

Post by Ape+lust »

Suet Cardigan wrote:Another classis, Ape+Lust!

I love the knife stuck through his copy of The God Delusion.
Thank you! Here's a terrible secret -- PZ's head is perched on the body of a Black man. I bleached some poor fool, then dishonored him with pudgy Minnesota pieface. I should be hellbound for that.

Gefan
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18528

Post by Gefan »

[youtube]bGEGfa9PDRg[/youtube]

:popcorn:

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18529

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
SoylentAtheist wrote: pz just is not that creative. Also the page is folded into quarters.

but cursive is no longer a required course in school.
1) Nope.
2) QED.
Take another look at the vertical center whiteish line. The document was scanned in. That whiteish line is from where the fold did not press up against the glass/scanner quite as well. Bottom half is an inner fold. Top half where you see a bit of a mottled grey line surrounded by a bit of white is an outer fold.

I demand an impartial jury on my assessment of the quarter folds!

SoylentAtheist

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18530

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Never mind. I mixed up the question order.
<= Self admitted dufus to the left.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18531

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Cursive is still taught in Indiana schools, albeit with some controversy. Still, the letter does not pass the sniff test. Matt's assessment of the writing style changes and language are not easily dismissed.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18532

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Guestus Aurelius wrote:Is Monsanto's reputation as a particularly evil corporation earned? I know there's some fucked up history there (Agent Orange), but are they in fact any more nefarious than most big companies today?
Yes: Roundup.

http://web.mit.edu/demoscience/Monsanto/about.html

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18533

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Southern wrote: Well, I hate to crash their dreams, but... if they do manage to control 100% of the world's food supply, you know what will happen the next day? Governments all around the world will expropriate the shit out of Monsanto's intellectual property. And what the fuck they will do about it? Even the smallest of the small banana republics can send their troops and expropriate Monsanto's facilities.
Because the US would never ever invade a banana republic just to protect the profits of a US corporation.

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18534

Post by AndrewV69 »

Gefan wrote:[youtube]bGEGfa9PDRg[/youtube]

:popcorn:
As I twerped on twatter:
Please please please please let this bill pass.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18535

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

jugheadnaut wrote:Yes, and it was especially nice that we got to encounter a lot more of Baccarin in Homeland. :drool:

Every time I hear Summer Glau's name I get pangs of regret about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Damn, that show deserved another couple of seasons.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed that show. Then disappointed it got canned.

Old_ones
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18536

Post by Old_ones »

Guestus Aurelius wrote:(I will not engage with the anti-GMO Facebook friends, I mean.)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 8213_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/InspirationalWooEnergy

Jan Steen
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18537

Post by Jan Steen »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Mykeru wrote:Oh Jesus Christ, the Savior on a Stick, but Matt Cavanaugh's analysis of P.Z. Myers' underage girl fandom is truly a thing of train-wreck wonder:

PZ Myers and the Dream Girl

I know we keep saying "This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end", but This is the moment P.Z. irrevocably goes off the deep end
It's beautiful. Any follow up, Matt? Do you really believe there were multiple authors or one author with poor control over their faked style? Troll or one of Meyers's cronies? Laden?
If it was Laden, 'she' would surely have written that The Crappy Plagiarist is not a collection of blog posts. :lol:

It wasn't written by Peezus himself, unless he took the trouble to change his capitals. So, either a troll, an adult sycophant, or composed by Peezus but written by somebody else. The only thing we can be certain of is that it wasn't actually written by a teenager from Indiana. :lol:

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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18538

Post by Jan Steen »


Kirbmarc
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18539

Post by Kirbmarc »

AndrewV69 wrote:How can a student prove consent? The bill's co-author says: "Your guess is as good as mine."
It's simple. If he's a man and he's had sex with a woman, he must ask for a written contract, signed in the presence of a witness, who has to be a woman or a gay male or a trans (otherwise there'd be two sexist douchecanoes forcing a woman to sign the contract). Taping the signing is also recommended. Taping the sex act itself is optional.

And even with a signature and a tape, if a woman says that she felt like she was raped she'll have a good case, and good luck convincing the jury that he couldn't possibly have known that in her mind she felt like she was raped. Because as we all know if you claim that you feel like you were raped, you were raped. Unless you're a man.

BELIEVE THE VICTIMS!

Skep tickle
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#18540

Post by Skep tickle »

Opyt wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Opyt wrote:
quote="CaptainFluffyBunny" WTF? Somebody defending themselves from a rape accusation doesn't have to testify? And often shouldn't? Weird fuckin' Florida law, huh?/quote

Not just Florida. Apparently US & Canada.
I'm pretty sure that that applies to the accuser, not the defendant. It's to prevent trauma and stress to the victim, not the person defending themselves against the allegation(s). The defendant being the one accused.
Ah, my bad, I was reading and not comprehending. The defendant being there is probably required, as when the defendant loses, they're probably going to be carted off to a jail cell.

Yeah, the accused has to be there, but at this point the only defense that can be given is literally: "she gave consent". Unless it's received in writing, or recorded in audio or on video, the defendant can't prove one way or the other, at which point it's up to the jury to decide whether or not the crime was committed. It's literally a he-said she-said case at this point, which, in my eyes, takes away from the validity of the "97% of rapists don't serve a day of jail time." thing that got tossed out early in the conversation. It's just kind of disappointing that it's up to the defendant to prove that they didn't commit the crime whereas in other crimes, it's the prosecutor's job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It's going to be interesting if she (the person I was tweeting with) turns out to be a prosecutor, if only because maybe she will be able to prove it to a jury. It really looks like a crusade against penis, but I can't prove that myself.
Defendant has the right to testify but never has to testify in U.S., AFAICT though IANAL. Two contributing factors:

1) Presumption of innocence until/unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution has to prove their case, even if that's just the accuser's testimony ("she said", in some cases). There are situations in which the defense team figures that the prosecution can't prove its case, & therefore the defense doesn't defend. Wikipedia claims this was established by the US Supreme Court in 1895 in Coffin v. United States.

2) 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, the right against self-incrimination. Anyone who testifies is open to cross-examination by the other side's lawyer(s). There are situations in which the defense team decides it's riskier to put the defendant on the stand than to have him/her testify in his/her own defense.

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