Bleeding from the Bunghole

Continuation of the post at Abbie Smith's ERV blog (http://scienceblogs.com/erv/)

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Pitchguest » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:01 am  •  [Post 20541]

Hehe, I noticed this comment on the NSC thread on Pharyngula:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-715304

Perfectly illustrates, I think, that NSC is not the paragon of objectivity he likes to think he is.

Also, the way they completely hail down on NSC in that thread to boot is hilarious - it almost makes me feel sorry for the guy. Almost. But hey, all the nutcases just exist on the anti-FtB side, right? Right. :whistle:
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Re: Bleeding from the Slavehole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:02 am  •  [Post 20542]

Michael K Gray wrote:
Southern wrote:When my brother was telling me all this crap, I started to wonder why the higher-ups couldn't see the obvious flaws in their amazing plans (giving free stuff for nothing = bad, expecting tech people to act as sellers = bad, changing ERP software withour exhaustive testing = DOUPLE PLUS UNGOOD JUJU!), but it always amount to what you're saying: "I know what I'm doing because I'm risking my money and that somehow makes me special and smart, so shut up and do as I say or else I'll put you out of your misery and then you can see how hard it is to run a company". Well, you're not smart because you have money to invest in a company; you may be, but that doesn't make you an authority in every aspect of your business. MAH MONEY MAH RULEZ may work when you're raising children, but not when you have to raise adults.

Boy, have I triggered an avalanche of self-pity with that post!?
FYI: When I started My Company, I was in secondary school year 10, with nary a brass razoo to my name.
READ: NO MONEY TO INVEST.
I had to gain cash-flow via delivering the goods to my clients.

But with a drive and vision.

You are spouting nonsense.

So you can cut-out that bullshit guilt-trip.
I had negative money to invest, yet raised a child and employed whinging fuckers like you.
And paid their superannuation.
Fucking wage-slaves bitching about how they "could do it better than their employers', yet studiously avoiding taking that action annoy me, potentially more, than Rebecca Watson.


Right. Because all companies are the same, all industries are the same and your company and your model is the only one anyone needs regardless of industry or product or service.

Of course, you have yet to detail your industry, your company, your product/service, etc. So we have no fucking data to go on. But by god, it worked for you, IT WILL THEREFORE WORK FOR ALL.

Okay grampy.
If you're going to ignore me, then actually do it. But that does require some work. So you probably won't do it right.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Jan Steen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:05 am  •  [Post 20543]

jet_lagg wrote:The book teaches actual mathematics.


No it doesn't. It drops some formulas and tells you how to plug in numbers in them. That's not teaching mathematics. In mathematics you learn to understand what the formulas actually mean and where they come from. The reader of this book will have no clue. Bayes' Theorem is here treated like some kind of incantation.

The misleading title should already be a red flag: Proving History. You don’t ‘prove’ history. It’s in typically swollen Carrier fashion a flag that doesn’t cover the contents by even a wide stretch of the imagination.

jet_lagg wrote:Considering his book was peer reviewed by a professional mathematician specializing in bayes[*], and the two mathematicians he was discussing this with didn't fall over laughing, your point is obviously refuted.


Considering that none of the mathematicians addressed the ludicrous remark I quoted it is evident that my point is not at all refuted. Carrier's modus operandi is to counter every objection with a wall of text which in nine cases out of ten consists of hand waving and the repeated assertion that he has already addressed the objection elsewhere (with pointers to his peer reviewed book chapter/article/blog post where he supposedly did so). It's no wonder that not every morsel of Carrier's nonsense was dealt with.

You really seem to believe that Carrier has refuted the criticisms, while my impression is that he doesn’t even understand many of them. I leave you with this snippet of dialogue between Carrier and an actual mathematician (Ian), which seems to confirm my impression:

Richard Carrier wrote:But in regard to your comment above, I actually discuss these kinds of problems all over Proving History. So I don’t know why you say I didn’t. Page numbers are provided in the linked comment above (and in the comment it links to in turn). I talk about these kinds of problems most especially all throughout my discussion of reference classes in chapter six, but not only there.


Ian wrote:
So I don’t know why you say I didn’t.


Or, put the other way: I don’t know why you think your arguments address these issues.

I suspect that puzzlement is probably very significant to making progress!


http://irrco.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-effect-of-error-in-bayess-theorem/

Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so we will have to wait and see if Carrier will be able to use his Bayesian ideas to add anything of value to the debate about the existence of Jesus. My guess is that he won't. I expect that he will come up with a wide range of probabilities that on closer analysis will turn out to be just as reliable as anything propounded by William Lane Craig. As I said before, garbage in - garbage out.

*Are you sure about that? Carrier mentioned somewhere that it was reviewed by a professor of mathematics, but I don't recall that he or she was said to be a specialist in Bayesian theory.
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Re: Oh No! Now I've Done It. Again

Postby Southern » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:08 am  •  [Post 20544]

Mykeru wrote:And this is what happens when you let your guard down:

You end up feeding the manatee.

On behalf of Lazy Savant and I, allow me to apologize profusely for giving that mean-spirited poo-bag ephemeral purpose.


Nobody said it yet? Well, excuse me then:

MYYYYYKEEEEERUUUUU! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!

But could someone please tell Swazan that if she wants someone to offend her, I could do that for free, in large ammounts and being as mean spirited as she would possibly want? Give me five minutes for inspiration.

I used to play DotA on the Battle.net (no moderation or punishment for trashtalking outside ladder playing, yay!), so I got a lot of experience in insults about sexuality, virginity (and the lack of, specifically the oral and anal ones), fatness, nationality, penile size (male AND female penises), and mom issues.
I'm posting this statement feeling confident that nothing will go wrong.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby German LurkBoatsman » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:09 am  •  [Post 20545]

Southern wrote:The problem arises when you do that after begging for money on the internet, I think. You're begging people to solve your financial problems while not doing anything yourself about them. That's a lot of chutzpah, even if her "patrons" don't mind (I'm sure The Amazing Foshaulg doesn't care a bit).


Well, I hold to the view that everyone who gives Watson money at this point is basically incapable of making financial decision for themselves. Which makes RW a purse rapist, in my book. And no, her intent is not magic, so don't even try that defense.
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Re: Oh No! Now I've Done It. Again

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:11 am  •  [Post 20546]

Southern wrote:
Mykeru wrote:And this is what happens when you let your guard down:

You end up feeding the manatee.

On behalf of Lazy Savant and I, allow me to apologize profusely for giving that mean-spirited poo-bag ephemeral purpose.


Nobody said it yet? Well, excuse me then:

MYYYYYKEEEEERUUUUU! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!

But could someone please tell Swazan that if she wants someone to offend her, I could do that for free, in large ammounts and being as mean spirited as she would possibly want? Give me five minutes for inspiration.

I used to play DotA on the Battle.net (no moderation or punishment for trashtalking outside ladder playing, yay!), so I got a lot of experience in insults about sexuality, virginity (and the lack of, specifically the oral and anal ones), fatness, nationality, penile size (male AND female penises), and mom issues.


Simply by existing and not kowtowing on both knees to her, you offend her. No real effort needed.
If you're going to ignore me, then actually do it. But that does require some work. So you probably won't do it right.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Dick Strawkins » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:23 am  •  [Post 20547]

BarnOwl wrote:Over on Ophelia's version of the Pamela Gay drama (on which she bestows a title similar to those for her preceding posts on FGM), a commenter writes:

brucegee1962
November 6, 2013 at 9:44 pm (UTC -8) Link to this comment
My young daughter is going to be gorgeous, and she loves math. I tell her every day how proud I am of her, and how great it would be if she decides to go into engineering or science.

Posts like this make me wonder if I’m doing the right thing as a dad. Maybe I should be encouraging her to study languages or English Lit, where the balance is a lot closer to 50-50.

That makes me SO ANGRY on her behalf, and the behalf of all the current and future woman scientists.

ARGH!


I don't know where to begin to parse the stupid, so I'll just ask why it's relevant that she's going to be "gorgeous"? It's quite obvious, from all of the many groping/harassment/RAEP stories that have been presented as blog posts, comments, #ripplesoftweetwoe, TAM talks, etc etc, that being "gorgeous" is not a prerequisite for being a target. Being a scientist or being "brilliant" at maths and physics isn't a requirement either. So why is that even part of the dialogue? If they're so disgusted with oppressive white patriarchoindustrialcomplex notions of beauty, why do they constantly conform to them and refer to dominant paradigms of physical attractiveness?


I've mentioned about situations in my own experience involving sexual harassment in academia and that my in opinion they are symptoms of a larger issue - the power differential between senior adacemics and people starting their careers. If you have a system whereby there is no blowback for acting like a tyrant then people who do so will stay in those positions for longer.

I recall an incident from my first research job that might illustrate the point.
I got a job in a lab in the early 1990s, looking for genes involved in certain types of leukemia. The group worked in collaboration with a team in Oxford who were much more experienced in the field, and I was sent to work in the Oxford lab for a few months to learn the necessary techniques and bring them back to our lab.
The head of the Oxford group, I was warned, had a bit of a reputation for his temper, so best not try to antagonize him while I was there.
Things went OK for a couple of months until one day I got into an argument with one of the senior scientists in the group. She decided she wanted to use me as a technician for the group, washing bottles, preparing buffers and cataloguing patient sample, rather than teaching me the techniques I had been sent there to acquire and when I pointed out that I was being paid by another group to learn the techniques she stormed off to complain to the group leader.
I was called into a meeting with the two of them and he, the group leader, proceeded to threaten to physically kill me if I didn't do exactly what I was told to do by the senior scientist.
This didn't come our of the blue to me at that point. I'd seen other scientists and medics (he was a consultant haematologist at the hospital and in a position of considerable power in regards both scientists and physicians) called into his office and come out shaking a few minutes later, and one of them had told me about the threats of violence made to him.
But, the thing was, I come from a fairly tough environment. Threats of violence are something I regularly experienced when growing up and I learned that they are almost always a sign of weakness - an attempt at bullying the other person into submission.
So my response was to laugh in his face and tell him not to wait - go ahead and kill me.
I presumed it was all a bluff and so it was - he freaked out for a few minutes, threatened to end my scientific career there and then (I laughed again - this was my first job in research, there was no 'career' to kill). He then told me to vacate the lab and said he was going to phone up my home lab and get them to fire me!
So I go home and the next morning I turn up in the other lab - the group who are actually paying me and who expected me to be trained in Oxford - wondering whether I had a job there at all. I was met by the senior scientist of the lab who tells me, through peals of laughter, that the Oxford group leader had indeed rang up insisting that I be fired, and when he was asked to explain WHY he started to threaten violence again - except this time on the other group leader (a prominent leukemia researcher and also a consultant haematologist.) The quote I remember was that the Oxford group leader threatened to "drive down to rip off his head and kick it around the floor".
I had been working in that lab for a few months and had seen about three of these incidents and I presume it was a regular event and yet the guy never suffered any repercussions for this behavior in the decades he worked in that post. He was also having an affair with a PhD student in the group at the time I was there.
And as for me?
Not even PTSD. :violin:
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Remick » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:30 am  •  [Post 20548]

Tribble wrote:
Remick wrote:I know the civ series well, it is one of my fav's. I had a harder time beating Xcom Ironman impossible though.

I still don't see the point in criticizing her for playing video games. It comes off as petty and seems a little crazy to be honest. You can take jabs whenever she posts a shitty article or someone puts up a youtube vid of a shitty talk she gave. You could even reference videogames then. Something like, Hours spent on Civ 5:230, hours spent researching evo psych: 1/3 of plane ride to con.

Point out that she is lazy when her work shows it, shouldn't be to hard. But simply lashing out for her playing video games is stupid, and doesn't help.

It is like going after Setar because he plays video games. Him playing video games is not the issue.... I started to type out 'the' issue with setar, but that seems impossible.



zzzzzzzzzzzz Tone trolling is boring.


Has nothing to do with tone but actually hitting the target fuckface.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby John D » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:34 am  •  [Post 20549]

welch wrote:
John D wrote:
Ms. Gay - you really did a disservice to others. You need to help reinforce the right kind of behavior in the work environment. Take action to stop harassment immediately. Don't go public and cry about your problems to the world without first trying to fix it on a local level. Document any problems in writing. Take your complaint to management. Accept the apology of others and move on.


I so rarely agree with JD here that this may be a noteworthy event, but he is in fact, absolutely right. If you are being harassed in the workplace, THAT is where you need to deal with it. If you do not feel comfortable in going to your supervisor, GO TO HR. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS HR IS FOR. If the behavior is not reported to them, there is literally nothing they can do about it.


Well..... If Welch and I agree with each other (an event of exceptional scarcity), then we must be right!
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Remick » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:34 am  •  [Post 20550]

Southern wrote:
Remick wrote:I know the civ series well, it is one of my fav's. I had a harder time beating Xcom Ironman impossible though.

I still don't see the point in criticizing her for playing video games. It comes off as petty and seems a little crazy to be honest. You can take jabs whenever she posts a shitty article or someone puts up a youtube vid of a shitty talk she gave. You could even reference videogames then. Something like, Hours spent on Civ 5:230, hours spent researching evo psych: 1/3 of plane ride to con.

Point out that she is lazy when her work shows it, shouldn't be to hard. But simply lashing out for her playing video games is stupid, and doesn't help.

It is like going after Setar because he plays video games. Him playing video games is not the issue.... I started to type out 'the' issue with setar, but that seems impossible.


What I got from that wasn't that people here were criticizing her for playing videogames. Hell, some Pitter (including myself) are gamers, "hardcore" or not, whatever.

The problem arises when you do that after begging for money on the internet, I think. You're begging people to solve your financial problems while not doing anything yourself about them. That's a lot of chutzpah, even if her "patrons" don't mind (I'm sure The Amazing Foshaulg doesn't care a bit).

Besides, isn't one of the main points of opposing religion that some religious douches con people on giving money while not doing anything of value for it? If it's suddenly not a problem anymore, why bother going after those Pentecostal types, or quacks? Their audience is just giving them their own money on their own volition. What is good for the Twatson is good for the Robertson.


You and I agree. I just don't see the point in critizing a pentecostal type for playing golf sometimes. Go after him for conning people.

Same with Watson. Go after her, just don't be stupid about it.
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Re: Bleeding from the Slavehole

Postby Remick » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 am  •  [Post 20551]

welch wrote:
Michael K Gray wrote:
Southern wrote:When my brother was telling me all this crap, I started to wonder why the higher-ups couldn't see the obvious flaws in their amazing plans (giving free stuff for nothing = bad, expecting tech people to act as sellers = bad, changing ERP software withour exhaustive testing = DOUPLE PLUS UNGOOD JUJU!), but it always amount to what you're saying: "I know what I'm doing because I'm risking my money and that somehow makes me special and smart, so shut up and do as I say or else I'll put you out of your misery and then you can see how hard it is to run a company". Well, you're not smart because you have money to invest in a company; you may be, but that doesn't make you an authority in every aspect of your business. MAH MONEY MAH RULEZ may work when you're raising children, but not when you have to raise adults.

Boy, have I triggered an avalanche of self-pity with that post!?
FYI: When I started My Company, I was in secondary school year 10, with nary a brass razoo to my name.
READ: NO MONEY TO INVEST.
I had to gain cash-flow via delivering the goods to my clients.

But with a drive and vision.

You are spouting nonsense.

So you can cut-out that bullshit guilt-trip.
I had negative money to invest, yet raised a child and employed whinging fuckers like you.
And paid their superannuation.
Fucking wage-slaves bitching about how they "could do it better than their employers', yet studiously avoiding taking that action annoy me, potentially more, than Rebecca Watson.


Right. Because all companies are the same, all industries are the same and your company and your model is the only one anyone needs regardless of industry or product or service.

Of course, you have yet to detail your industry, your company, your product/service, etc. So we have no fucking data to go on. But by god, it worked for you, IT WILL THEREFORE WORK FOR ALL.

Okay grampy.


Hey, Gramps only succeeded because he is better than all of us. There was not luck involved ever, at any points. Just hard work and being better than all us 'wage slave' fools.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Pitchguest » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:41 am  •  [Post 20552]

I'm starting to think Google's mission for YouTube is to find a new power source, namely to increase the frustration levels of its users to near destructive proportions so they can harness the screams for fuel.

I'm genuinely confused as to what they're trying to accomplish with this update. The default "share this on Google+" tick aside, you're unable to respond to old comments (and some new ones), you can't access the context of the comments you're responding to without opening up a new window, and they removed the 400 character cap marking the return of spam spam spam, lovely spam! From a business perspective, they are shooting themselves in the foot, spilling precious milk while biting the hand that feeds. What.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Tapir » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:51 am  •  [Post 20553]

Image

I hope Zvan doesn't have a pace-maker.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby John D » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:56 am  •  [Post 20554]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
I recall an incident from my first research job that might illustrate the point.
I got a job in a lab in the early 1990s, looking for genes involved in certain types of leukemia.

In my opinion things have changed quite a bit since the early 90s regarding office behavior. I work in the auto industry and I have seen tremendous change. Sometimes it is a bit odd to me. I am in my 50s and have worked for some of the best screaming lunatic bosses in the country. Part of the challenge to making a successful career was how you managed these loons. I was pretty good at it and learned how to scream with the best of them.

Flash forward to 2013 and I can barely raise my voice without someone crying and asking me to apologize. Haha. I have learned how to use a tool (anger), and now the world has changed so much I can't even deploy it. I guess the good thing is that I have such a thick skin that I am not easily flustered.

I think much of the change has been driven by "feminism" and lawsuits. In the 90s we used to go to lunch with suppliers that included lap dances at the local topless bar. That stopped abruptly after there was a lawsuit and a bunch of firings at GM. I guess I am happy to work in an environment where I don't ever yell at anyone. It is also nice to not have to play the game of "entertaining" customers with trips to the topless bar. It is hard for me to deal with people crying at work however. There is still more for me to learn when that happens.

and to wrap up. There was a particularly vile and aggressive plant manager in the mid 1990s. He had honed his skill at dishing out abuse to a fine art. An amazing man. He yelled at an engineer with such force and skill that the poor victim of the abuse fainted in his chair. BAM! Out like a lite. Few people on earth can yell with that much skill.... haha.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby ReneeHendricks » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:00 am  •  [Post 20555]

Tapir wrote:Image

I hope Zvan doesn't have a pace-maker.


Wait. That whole bit on televisions shutting off has to do with pacemakers? I have a pacemaker and have had one for almost 20 years. The *only* thing I've had happen is store security alarms being tripped. I'm around oodles of electronics daily that have never, ever been affected by my pacemaker. What a load of shit if Caine is suggesting they interfere with tvs.
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Re: Oh No! Now I've Done It. Again

Postby mikelf » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:03 am  •  [Post 20556]

Southern wrote:But could someone please tell Swazan that if she wants someone to offend her, I could do that for free, in large ammounts and being as mean spirited as she would possibly want? Give me five minutes for inspiration.

I used to play DotA on the Battle.net (no moderation or punishment for trashtalking outside ladder playing, yay!), so I got a lot of experience in insults about sexuality, virginity (and the lack of, specifically the oral and anal ones), fatness, nationality, penile size (male AND female penises), and mom issues.


Gee, Mr. Southern, you're so special! I wish one day I could grow to be just like you!"
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Tapir » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:06 am  •  [Post 20557]

ReneeHendricks wrote:
Tapir wrote:Image

I hope Zvan doesn't have a pace-maker.


Wait. That whole bit on televisions shutting off has to do with pacemakers? I have a pacemaker and have had one for almost 20 years. The *only* thing I've had happen is store security alarms being tripped. I'm around oodles of electronics daily that have never, ever been affected by my pacemaker. What a load of shit if Caine is suggesting they interfere with tvs.

No....I was referring to Caine's not-woo-at-all ability to fuck with electrical equipment using the power of her....fuck knows. Rage? Shaking?
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby halophilic » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:15 am  •  [Post 20558]

My (completely unoriginal) problem with the concept of trigger warnings is that if you are that sensitive then the word "trigger warning: rape" will itself be a triggering event. Trigger warnings are not for people who are triggered. Those people know how to avoid triggers if they really want to.

Trigger warnings are for fucks who want to feel like they're making a difference without doing anything. They're prayer.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby ReneeHendricks » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:19 am  •  [Post 20559]

Tapir wrote:
ReneeHendricks wrote:
Tapir wrote:Image

I hope Zvan doesn't have a pace-maker.


Wait. That whole bit on televisions shutting off has to do with pacemakers? I have a pacemaker and have had one for almost 20 years. The *only* thing I've had happen is store security alarms being tripped. I'm around oodles of electronics daily that have never, ever been affected by my pacemaker. What a load of shit if Caine is suggesting they interfere with tvs.

No....I was referring to Caine's not-woo-at-all ability to fuck with electrical equipment using the power of her....fuck knows. Rage? Shaking?


Ah, ok. That's even more pathetic and very woo-y.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:20 am  •  [Post 20560]

welch wrote:To use a trope the SJW idiots love...if MLK and Malcom X had said "no, we have to wait for those in power to change things on their own, we're powerless", the Civil Rights movement would have had no results at all.

but speaking truth to power has risks and can cause problems for the reporters! you didnt see mlk or malcom x take any risks and suffer any problems, did you???
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby goddamn 'nym » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:21 am  •  [Post 20561]

Pitchguest wrote:I'm starting to think Google's mission for YouTube is to find a new power source, namely to increase the frustration levels of its users to near destructive proportions so they can harness the screams for fuel.

I'm genuinely confused as to what they're trying to accomplish with this update. The default "share this on Google+" tick aside, you're unable to respond to old comments (and some new ones), you can't access the context of the comments you're responding to without opening up a new window, and they removed the 400 character cap marking the return of spam spam spam, lovely spam! From a business perspective, they are shooting themselves in the foot, spilling precious milk while biting the hand that feeds. What.


The overall level of discourse on G+ seems far more sane than on YouTube, so perhaps they hope some of that rubs off?
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Dick Strawkins » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:21 am  •  [Post 20562]

ReneeHendricks wrote:
Tapir wrote:
Wait. That whole bit on televisions shutting off has to do with pacemakers? I have a pacemaker and have had one for almost 20 years. The *only* thing I've had happen is store security alarms being tripped. I'm around oodles of electronics daily that have never, ever been affected by my pacemaker. What a load of shit if Caine is suggesting they interfere with tvs.

No....I was referring to Caine's not-woo-at-all ability to fuck with electrical equipment using the power of her....fuck knows. Rage? Shaking?


Ah, ok. That's even more pathetic and very woo-y.[/quote]

It makes it sound like Caine is 'Carrie', all grown up.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Aneris » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:21 am  •  [Post 20563]

To whom it may help. I use chrome and heavily rely on the quick search function which started to act up a while ago. Normally, it should instantly switch to the search engine when I type in the keywords / letters. I always had to press TAB and other shenaningans. After investigating, I found a solution to the problem:

just put this into the address bar in chrome:
Code: Select all
chrome://flags/


CTRL+F "instant" (Instant Extended API)
And deactivate that. Hit restart below. Fixed.

Software geekery and all that isn't exactly my realm of expertise, so I have no clue what else it does. But it works for me.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby ERV » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:22 am  •  [Post 20564]

This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby free thoughtpolice » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:25 am  •  [Post 20565]

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Who saw 9/11 coming? Condi Rice did, in the FBI report warning that al qaeda planned on using passenger a/c as weapons. She lied about the PDB. The neocons had long craved a "Pearl Harbor Moment" to justify their agenda of wars in the Middle East.


After 9/11 the chant was "no one could have foreseen someone using airplanes as weapons". Aside from the kamikaze pilots of WW2 there was an incident where a disgruntled employee tried to crash a (Fed-ex?) jet into their main sorting facility a few years before 9/11. Then there was the warning from the flight school and the FBI agent in Minnesota.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby ReneeHendricks » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 am  •  [Post 20566]

ERV wrote:This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...


This is how I imagine they all start their days:

stuart_smalley_web2-745x380.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Ericb » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 am  •  [Post 20567]

ERV wrote:This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...



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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Tribble » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:41 am  •  [Post 20568]

Remick wrote:
Tribble wrote:
Remick wrote:I know the civ series well, it is one of my fav's. I had a harder time beating Xcom Ironman impossible though.

I still don't see the point in criticizing her for playing video games. It comes off as petty and seems a little crazy to be honest. You can take jabs whenever she posts a shitty article or someone puts up a youtube vid of a shitty talk she gave. You could even reference videogames then. Something like, Hours spent on Civ 5:230, hours spent researching evo psych: 1/3 of plane ride to con.

Point out that she is lazy when her work shows it, shouldn't be to hard. But simply lashing out for her playing video games is stupid, and doesn't help.

It is like going after Setar because he plays video games. Him playing video games is not the issue.... I started to type out 'the' issue with setar, but that seems impossible.



zzzzzzzzzzzz Tone trolling is boring.


Has nothing to do with tone but actually hitting the target fuckface.


Actually, you're right. It was CONCERN TROLLING. My bad.

concern troll
A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.


Unless, of course, you're going to use the FTB special dictionary.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:42 am  •  [Post 20569]

Pogsurf wrote:
Trigger warning: trigger warning

As a serious question, is anyone aware of how or where the term "trigger warning" came into existence? Is it just a piece of SJW mythology, or has someone actually offered this up as a proper response to a real problem?


Issuing trigger warnings assumes that every person who ever suffered some traumatic event will, upon the mere mention of that genre of event, be reduced to a pathetic, hyperventilating wreck cowering in the back of the closet for three days.

As I've seen trigger warnings used almost exclusively by feminists, we have YA example of the feminist trope that women are weak.


From a psych/behavior perspective, I doubt that TW's even work. (Certainly not when Ophelia Benson places them one carriage return above the traumatizing material!) First, the warning is too vague. Do all mentions of ableism cause me, little person, to curl into a fetal position, or just caricatures of dwarfs? Why do Disneyland ads have no trigger warning!

Second, over time, the PTSD or whatever will be transferred from the content to the mere warning itself. ''A trigger warning! What if they mention meanies wearing t-shirts at cons?!! Whaaa!' And next thing you know, you're reading Shakesville all day long from behind your shoe rack.

Of course there are people out there who get PTSD when the subject of their trauma comes up. But PTSD is treatable, and should lessen over time if treated. These professional victims want to keep it around as an excuse, and to further their thought police action against ever offending anyone evah.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 am  •  [Post 20570]

ERV wrote:This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...



What is it about "sixteen on center" that chicks just don't get?
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Lsuoma » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 am  •  [Post 20571]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
welch wrote:
The irony is, by overly concentrating their efforts in a small area, they've created a target. Think of the screening areas in most major U.S. airports say, the day before thanksgiving or december 23rd. Small area, packed with people, still outside the security zone.

that is a terrifyingly target-rich environment. I'm more nervous about the security area than I am about the plane.


There was one attempt, in Glasgow I think, by a couple of terrorists with a home made car bomb that they tried (and failed) to drive through the doors of one of the terminals.

Propane cylinders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasg ... ort_attack
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Karmakin » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:51 am  •  [Post 20572]

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Who saw 9/11 coming? Condi Rice did, in the FBI report warning that al qaeda planned on using passenger a/c as weapons. She lied about the PDB. The neocons had long craved a "Pearl Harbor Moment" to justify their agenda of wars in the Middle East.


After 9/11 the chant was "no one could have foreseen someone using airplanes as weapons". Aside from the kamikaze pilots of WW2 there was an incident where a disgruntled employee tried to crash a (Fed-ex?) jet into their main sorting facility a few years before 9/11. Then there was the warning from the flight school and the FBI agent in Minnesota.


The actual "conspiracy" was that before 9/11 the Bush administration didn't take terrorism seriously because it was seen as a "Clinton" thing. Was there something that could have been done? I dunno.

That's all. Although at the same time, I think that's pretty fucking important. See, it was nothing more than tribalism. What was seen to be something that was important to the other tribe (and anti-terrorism efforts WERE important to the Clinton admin) can't be something important to you otherwise you're saying that the other tribe is right about something.

Source: I was actually a terrorism hawk before 9/11. I actually thought the big attack was going to come on Y2K. That doesn't mean that I support bombing the shit out of other countries or even the security theater. But I do think that more resources should be put into investigation.

On a side note, that's why a lot of the whole NSA scandal pisses me off. It's not that I reject the notion of privacy...it's just that what does it mean? Does it mean that if a computer program is scanning your e-mail looking for certain words, is that a violation of your privacy? See, I value privacy...but what that means to me isn't that you just stop collecting all data. It means you firewall it. You make sure that information DOES NOT under any circumstances get used in any other way. Anonymize everything, then once you get judicial approval (and I understand why this has to be secret, but I think that the compromise is that you put on the bench some serious civil libertarians..not meaning extreme but meaning actually serious) you can un-anonymize it.

But the second that information is used for any other purpose, that's when you encourage whistleblowers and heavily reward them, and heavily punish those responsible.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Remick » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:58 am  •  [Post 20573]

Tribble wrote:
Actually, you're right. It was CONCERN TROLLING. My bad.

concern troll
A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.


Unless, of course, you're going to use the FTB special dictionary.



/cry, I am not able to post as often as you, so what I say is less valid. Maybe you an Steers can go have post count party.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Sulman » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:58 am  •  [Post 20574]

John D wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:
I recall an incident from my first research job that might illustrate the point.
I got a job in a lab in the early 1990s, looking for genes involved in certain types of leukemia.

In my opinion things have changed quite a bit since the early 90s regarding office behavior. I work in the auto industry and I have seen tremendous change. Sometimes it is a bit odd to me. I am in my 50s and have worked for some of the best screaming lunatic bosses in the country. Part of the challenge to making a successful career was how you managed these loons. I was pretty good at it and learned how to scream with the best of them.

Flash forward to 2013 and I can barely raise my voice without someone crying and asking me to apologize. Haha. I have learned how to use a tool (anger), and now the world has changed so much I can't even deploy it. I guess the good thing is that I have such a thick skin that I am not easily flustered.

I think much of the change has been driven by "feminism" and lawsuits. In the 90s we used to go to lunch with suppliers that included lap dances at the local topless bar. That stopped abruptly after there was a lawsuit and a bunch of firings at GM. I guess I am happy to work in an environment where I don't ever yell at anyone. It is also nice to not have to play the game of "entertaining" customers with trips to the topless bar. It is hard for me to deal with people crying at work however. There is still more for me to learn when that happens.

and to wrap up. There was a particularly vile and aggressive plant manager in the mid 1990s. He had honed his skill at dishing out abuse to a fine art. An amazing man. He yelled at an engineer with such force and skill that the poor victim of the abuse fainted in his chair. BAM! Out like a lite. Few people on earth can yell with that much skill.... haha.


Times do change. The workplace in particular isn't as robust as it was. My old man worked on Fleet Street when journalists would have legendary alcohol-fuelled lunches, and some of the aggressive behaviour was legendary. It's all gone now.

If you shout at anyone or even display the slightest bit of aggression, you can get into real trouble.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby SPACKlick » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:16 am  •  [Post 20575]

Pogsurf wrote:Interesting fact:

oolon
November 4, 2013 at 3:54 am (UTC -8) Link to this comment
@Matt Cavanaugh, utter tripe, hilarious as well.

the majority of content at the ‘Pit has little or nothing to do with A-plussers

Of course not dear…
“site:slymepit[dot]com atheismplus” … 184,000 results
“site:atheismplus[dot]com slymepit” …. 223 results

...


http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-784764

Another interesting fact:

At the time of writing there have been 140,428 posts on the Slymepit.

Therefore "atheismplus" is being mentioned an average of 1.31 times in every Slymepit post.

Oolon has proved that the Slymepit is harassing A+ QED.

Another interesting fact, searching the slympit for +"Atheism Plus" only gets 1112 posts. and atheismplus 2090

Searcing for one without the [ulr=http://slymepit.com/phpbb/search.php?keywords=%2B%22atheism+plus%22++-%22atheismplus%22+]other[/url] reveals an overlap of between 168 and 483. Taking the smallest of those there are 3034 posts in the pyt referring to atheism plus by name. Out of 140631 posts or to put it another way, Atheism Plus is mentioned, on average once every 46 posts.

Since posts come in at a rate of roughly one every 5 minutes since the forum began back in july 2012 it means that A+ is mentioned on average once every 4 hours.

The more you know...
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby goddamn 'nym » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:18 am  •  [Post 20576]

Karmakin wrote:See, I value privacy...but what that means to me isn't that you just stop collecting all data. It means you firewall it. You make sure that information DOES NOT under any circumstances get used in any other way. Anonymize everything, then once you get judicial approval (and I understand why this has to be secret, but I think that the compromise is that you put on the bench some serious civil libertarians..not meaning extreme but meaning actually serious) you can un-anonymize it.


Information is power. The people in power will not let silly firewalls get between them and their Precious.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:22 am  •  [Post 20577]

Tribble wrote:
Actually, you're right. It was CONCERN TROLLING. My bad.

concern troll
A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.


Unless, of course, you're going to use the FTB special dictionary.


Try these on for size:

yeswecan2008 wrote:Hey, I also was a huge Hillary Clinton supporter from the start. But she lost fair and square, so we all need to rally around Barack Obama.


cankles4mccain wrote:I'm a life-long democrat and post-menopausal woman just like you all, so it broke my heart when Hillary conceded. But Sarah Palin is a woman, too, so it makes sense we start voting republican.


john_galt296 wrote:I'm a liberal who voted twice for Barack Hussein Obama. I'm unemployed and on food stamps. I have a stutter. But let's face it, the keynesian policies of socialist big government have failed. Next time, we should support Ron Paul.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:26 am  •  [Post 20578]

Dick Strawkins wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:Over on Ophelia's version of the Pamela Gay drama (on which she bestows a title similar to those for her preceding posts on FGM), a commenter writes:

brucegee1962
November 6, 2013 at 9:44 pm (UTC -8) Link to this comment
My young daughter is going to be gorgeous, and she loves math. I tell her every day how proud I am of her, and how great it would be if she decides to go into engineering or science.

Posts like this make me wonder if I’m doing the right thing as a dad. Maybe I should be encouraging her to study languages or English Lit, where the balance is a lot closer to 50-50.

That makes me SO ANGRY on her behalf, and the behalf of all the current and future woman scientists.

ARGH!


I don't know where to begin to parse the stupid, so I'll just ask why it's relevant that she's going to be "gorgeous"? It's quite obvious, from all of the many groping/harassment/RAEP stories that have been presented as blog posts, comments, #ripplesoftweetwoe, TAM talks, etc etc, that being "gorgeous" is not a prerequisite for being a target. Being a scientist or being "brilliant" at maths and physics isn't a requirement either. So why is that even part of the dialogue? If they're so disgusted with oppressive white patriarchoindustrialcomplex notions of beauty, why do they constantly conform to them and refer to dominant paradigms of physical attractiveness?


I've mentioned about situations in my own experience involving sexual harassment in academia and that my in opinion they are symptoms of a larger issue - the power differential between senior adacemics and people starting their careers. If you have a system whereby there is no blowback for acting like a tyrant then people who do so will stay in those positions for longer.

I recall an incident from my first research job that might illustrate the point.
I got a job in a lab in the early 1990s, looking for genes involved in certain types of leukemia. The group worked in collaboration with a team in Oxford who were much more experienced in the field, and I was sent to work in the Oxford lab for a few months to learn the necessary techniques and bring them back to our lab.
The head of the Oxford group, I was warned, had a bit of a reputation for his temper, so best not try to antagonize him while I was there.
Things went OK for a couple of months until one day I got into an argument with one of the senior scientists in the group. She decided she wanted to use me as a technician for the group, washing bottles, preparing buffers and cataloguing patient sample, rather than teaching me the techniques I had been sent there to acquire and when I pointed out that I was being paid by another group to learn the techniques she stormed off to complain to the group leader.
I was called into a meeting with the two of them and he, the group leader, proceeded to threaten to physically kill me if I didn't do exactly what I was told to do by the senior scientist.
This didn't come our of the blue to me at that point. I'd seen other scientists and medics (he was a consultant haematologist at the hospital and in a position of considerable power in regards both scientists and physicians) called into his office and come out shaking a few minutes later, and one of them had told me about the threats of violence made to him.
But, the thing was, I come from a fairly tough environment. Threats of violence are something I regularly experienced when growing up and I learned that they are almost always a sign of weakness - an attempt at bullying the other person into submission.
So my response was to laugh in his face and tell him not to wait - go ahead and kill me.
I presumed it was all a bluff and so it was - he freaked out for a few minutes, threatened to end my scientific career there and then (I laughed again - this was my first job in research, there was no 'career' to kill). He then told me to vacate the lab and said he was going to phone up my home lab and get them to fire me!
So I go home and the next morning I turn up in the other lab - the group who are actually paying me and who expected me to be trained in Oxford - wondering whether I had a job there at all. I was met by the senior scientist of the lab who tells me, through peals of laughter, that the Oxford group leader had indeed rang up insisting that I be fired, and when he was asked to explain WHY he started to threaten violence again - except this time on the other group leader (a prominent leukemia researcher and also a consultant haematologist.) The quote I remember was that the Oxford group leader threatened to "drive down to rip off his head and kick it around the floor".
I had been working in that lab for a few months and had seen about three of these incidents and I presume it was a regular event and yet the guy never suffered any repercussions for this behavior in the decades he worked in that post. He was also having an affair with a PhD student in the group at the time I was there.
And as for me?
Not even PTSD. :violin:


Bingo.

I also still don't understand something. And I ask in all sincerity for someone to explain it to me:

What fucking "Power" does shermer have? I mean, everyone talks about it as a reason to not cross him. Like if you piss him off he'll....I don't know, but it's fucking bad I suppose.

So can someone who is a part of the "skeptics" movement explain his power to me? Because it sounds like utter bullshit, and completely based on...nothing.
If you're going to ignore me, then actually do it. But that does require some work. So you probably won't do it right.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Gumby » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:29 am  •  [Post 20579]

Tigzy wrote:Nice one Southern - I was gonna respond MKG's typical 'know-it-all' bollocks meself, but you ninja'd me in fine style there.



I noticed a long time ago that when that self-aggrandizing colossal prick MKG delivers an opinion, it is all too often couched in a manner deliberately designed to show utter imperious snooty disdain for the person he is responding to in order to pridefully boast about how fucking awesome he thinks himself to be. MKG is a weapons-grade twat in my book, and it's a pity that the 'ignore' feature does not include quotes included in replies.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:30 am  •  [Post 20580]

John D wrote:
welch wrote:
John D wrote:
Ms. Gay - you really did a disservice to others. You need to help reinforce the right kind of behavior in the work environment. Take action to stop harassment immediately. Don't go public and cry about your problems to the world without first trying to fix it on a local level. Document any problems in writing. Take your complaint to management. Accept the apology of others and move on.


I so rarely agree with JD here that this may be a noteworthy event, but he is in fact, absolutely right. If you are being harassed in the workplace, THAT is where you need to deal with it. If you do not feel comfortable in going to your supervisor, GO TO HR. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS HR IS FOR. If the behavior is not reported to them, there is literally nothing they can do about it.


Well..... If Welch and I agree with each other (an event of exceptional scarcity), then we must be right!


Or more wrong than that word has ever described.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby dogen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:32 am  •  [Post 20581]

Pogsurf wrote:From the Spambot filter question:

Which is not a European capital city? Paris, London, Amsterdam, Rome, Beijing:


Tricky one, Amsterdam is not a capital city and Beijing is not in Europe.


Nor is London.
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Re: Bleeding from the Slavehole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:35 am  •  [Post 20582]

Remick wrote:
welch wrote:
Michael K Gray wrote:Boy, have I triggered an avalanche of self-pity with that post!?
FYI: When I started My Company, I was in secondary school year 10, with nary a brass razoo to my name.
READ: NO MONEY TO INVEST.
I had to gain cash-flow via delivering the goods to my clients.

But with a drive and vision.

You are spouting nonsense.

So you can cut-out that bullshit guilt-trip.
I had negative money to invest, yet raised a child and employed whinging fuckers like you.
And paid their superannuation.
Fucking wage-slaves bitching about how they "could do it better than their employers', yet studiously avoiding taking that action annoy me, potentially more, than Rebecca Watson.


Right. Because all companies are the same, all industries are the same and your company and your model is the only one anyone needs regardless of industry or product or service.

Of course, you have yet to detail your industry, your company, your product/service, etc. So we have no fucking data to go on. But by god, it worked for you, IT WILL THEREFORE WORK FOR ALL.

Okay grampy.


Hey, Gramps only succeeded because he is better than all of us. There was not luck involved ever, at any points. Just hard work and being better than all us 'wage slave' fools.


that assumes you regard owning your own business as being better than working for someone else. Some people really want to do that, and more power to them. But it doesn't make anyone more or less of a success than anyone else.

I've never had any serious urge to do that. Part of it comes from an honest appraisal of my skills, I know there are things critical to running a business that I suck at, and hate doing. Part of it comes from the knowledge that there's always a tradeoff. I'm not the person in charge, so I don't always win, but I'm also not ultimately responsible for everything that happens. I know what I'm there to do, and as long as I get to do that without unreasonable levels of being fucked with, I'm fine with that. I like being part of a team, I don't necessarily need to be in charge.

The benefits to me? I get to go home at a reasonable time far more often than not. My life is not overly entwined with my employer's. If the pay or situation at one job becomes untenable, I am far more able to go somewhere else. That's ended up being quite the advantage, as it's a large reason for the breadth of my experience.

Everything is a tradeoff, and I've never found the equation you have to balance to run your own business to be one that works out well for me. That may change one day, but for now, and really, since 1986, it's not, and I'm rather happy about the results overall. So is MKG "more" of a success than me? Not from where I sit, and when it comes to me, I have the only opinion that ultimately matters.

Yes, when you're not the lead dog, the view is a tad monotonous, but you also have more people to talk to.
If you're going to ignore me, then actually do it. But that does require some work. So you probably won't do it right.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:37 am  •  [Post 20583]

Guest wrote:
welch wrote:To use a trope the SJW idiots love...if MLK and Malcom X had said "no, we have to wait for those in power to change things on their own, we're powerless", the Civil Rights movement would have had no results at all.

but speaking truth to power has risks and can cause problems for the reporters! you didnt see mlk or malcom x take any risks and suffer any problems, did you???


Good point. I mean, it's not like they suffered for their cause like you know...setar.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby windy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:37 am  •  [Post 20584]

German LurkBoatsman wrote:
windy wrote:Dumbass edited her own quote, when the original is publicly available!

I guess she's found that random groping accusations have a much more receptive audience in skepticism than in astronomy. "A good story improves in the telling"


No, that's not exactly true. In the 2012 talk she just separated both accounts. She goes first with "had my ass slapped etc as an astronomer" and in a later part adds: also had my ass slapped, tits groped in this community (but, important, not at this TAM / not at TAM). So the stuff was all there in the 2012 telling.


I noticed that, but why didn't she just quote that instead of editing the original "had my ass slapped etc as an astronomer" account? It seems she's now trying to downplay the astronomer part and make it seem like she was actually upset over some skeptic "men in power".
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:40 am  •  [Post 20585]

ERV wrote:This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...


They really are the embodiments of the "before" schlameezels in an infomercial.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:52 am  •  [Post 20586]

Welch wrote:Threats of violence are ... almost always a sign of weakness - an attempt at bullying the other person into submission.


You deserve a rotting porcupine shoved up your rectum for that comment.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby free thoughtpolice » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:54 am  •  [Post 20587]

Tapir wrote:
No....I was referring to Caine's not-woo-at-all ability to fuck with electrical equipment using the power of her....fuck knows. Rage? Shaking?


I believe her power to kill electronics come from her powers of The Spiritual Rat Mother, where she uses her magic powers to remotely chew through power cords. :twisted:
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Trophy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:04 pm  •  [Post 20588]

John D wrote:Well..... If Welch and I agree with each other (an event of exceptional scarcity), then we must be right!


Uh oh. If you two always disagree it means that at least one of you is always wrong so now that you two agree, it's more likely that you are both wrong than you are both right ...
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Karmakin » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:11 pm  •  [Post 20589]

welch wrote:
Bingo.

I also still don't understand something. And I ask in all sincerity for someone to explain it to me:

What fucking "Power" does shermer have? I mean, everyone talks about it as a reason to not cross him. Like if you piss him off he'll....I don't know, but it's fucking bad I suppose.

So can someone who is a part of the "skeptics" movement explain his power to me? Because it sounds like utter bullshit, and completely based on...nothing.


Projection.

I mean, it's theoretical, but there's a possibility. He could declare that those who crossed him need to be persona non grata in the movement or he'll take his ball and go home. He'll demand that editors not publish their writings, or that conference organizers not invite those people as speakers (or even ban them entirely).

Would Shermer do this? I don't know him from a hole in the wall, so I'll assume no. However, do we know anybody who would do this? Do we?
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Sulaco » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:15 pm  •  [Post 20590]

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Who saw 9/11 coming? Condi Rice did, in the FBI report warning that al qaeda planned on using passenger a/c as weapons. She lied about the PDB. The neocons had long craved a "Pearl Harbor Moment" to justify their agenda of wars in the Middle East.


After 9/11 the chant was "no one could have foreseen someone using airplanes as weapons". Aside from the kamikaze pilots of WW2 there was an incident where a disgruntled employee tried to crash a (Fed-ex?) jet into their main sorting facility a few years before 9/11. Then there was the warning from the flight school and the FBI agent in Minnesota.


The DoE (I think) also conducted a test to see if a reactor cooling tower could survive the impact of a plane. So they rammed and old F4 into one. Great footage, the plane basically disintegrated on impact. I think I watched this on Nova on PBS years ago and the test was done in the 70's.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby welch » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:36 pm  •  [Post 20591]

Karmakin wrote:
welch wrote:
Bingo.

I also still don't understand something. And I ask in all sincerity for someone to explain it to me:

What fucking "Power" does shermer have? I mean, everyone talks about it as a reason to not cross him. Like if you piss him off he'll....I don't know, but it's fucking bad I suppose.

So can someone who is a part of the "skeptics" movement explain his power to me? Because it sounds like utter bullshit, and completely based on...nothing.


Projection.

I mean, it's theoretical, but there's a possibility. He could declare that those who crossed him need to be persona non grata in the movement or he'll take his ball and go home. He'll demand that editors not publish their writings, or that conference organizers not invite those people as speakers (or even ban them entirely).

Would Shermer do this? I don't know him from a hole in the wall, so I'll assume no. However, do we know anybody who would do this? Do we?


So basically, unless you're employed by a CFI or similar, Shermer has exactly zero power over you.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby FlyingV » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:38 pm  •  [Post 20592]

You can't write a better soap opera than this. I hope Phil complains about Pamela sexually harassing him by grabbing his chest since he is currently the only one that has the proof to make a case.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby windy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:56 pm  •  [Post 20593]

Dick Strawkins wrote:I've mentioned about situations in my own experience involving sexual harassment in academia and that my in opinion they are symptoms of a larger issue - the power differential between senior adacemics and people starting their careers. If you have a system whereby there is no blowback for acting like a tyrant then people who do so will stay in those positions for longer.

I recall an incident from my first research job that might illustrate the point.
I got a job in a lab in the early 1990s, looking for genes involved in certain types of leukemia. The group worked in collaboration with a team in Oxford who were much more experienced in the field, and I was sent to work in the Oxford lab for a few months to learn the necessary techniques and bring them back to our lab.
The head of the Oxford group, I was warned, had a bit of a reputation for his temper, so best not try to antagonize him while I was there.
Things went OK for a couple of months until one day I got into an argument with one of the senior scientists in the group. She decided she wanted to use me as a technician for the group, washing bottles, preparing buffers and cataloguing patient sample, rather than teaching me the techniques I had been sent there to acquire and when I pointed out that I was being paid by another group to learn the techniques she stormed off to complain to the group leader.
I was called into a meeting with the two of them and he, the group leader, proceeded to threaten to physically kill me if I didn't do exactly what I was told to do by the senior scientist.


Receiving death threats is part of what it means to be a scientist. :violin:
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby free thoughtpolice » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:25 pm  •  [Post 20594]

A not well known guitarist but a goodie, plays great headbanger and spacey stuff, also nice mellow acoustic pieces.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Mykeru » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:39 pm  •  [Post 20595]

ReneeHendricks wrote:
ERV wrote:This is how I imagine a normal day in FfTB world:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/ ... t-yourself

It seems like life is just so hard for them...


This is how I imagine they all start their days:

stuart_smalley_web2-745x380.jpg


This is how I imagine it :

cowering_like_a_submisive_cat_by_neetrith.jpg
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Lsuoma » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:43 pm  •  [Post 20596]

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Welch wrote:Threats of violence are ... almost always a sign of weakness - an attempt at bullying the other person into submission.


You deserve a rotting porcupine shoved up your rectum for that comment.

Salvor Hardin often said that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. I disagree somewhat - I don't think it's ALWAYS the last refuge.
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Re: Oh No! Now I've Done It. Again

Postby Badger3k » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:44 pm  •  [Post 20597]

Mykeru wrote:And this is what happens when you let your guard down:

You end up feeding the manatee.

On behalf of Lazy Savant and I, allow me to apologize profusely for giving that mean-spirited poo-bag ephemeral purpose.


So that's the whole thing she's harassing you for (remember storifying is harassment)? A joke about wearing a svzn-suit? Of course, why would anyone want to wear it - wouldn't you be afraid of what you'd catch?

Stefunny... :violin:
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Brive1987 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:46 pm  •  [Post 20598]

Amazing how people conflate profiling with skin colour sterotypes. Like there's not a whole array of markers a sophisticated system could use. Special muppetry that.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Lsuoma » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:48 pm  •  [Post 20599]

Lsuoma wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Welch wrote:Threats of violence are ... almost always a sign of weakness - an attempt at bullying the other person into submission.


You deserve a rotting porcupine shoved up your rectum for that comment.

Salvor Hardin often said that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. I disagree somewhat - I don't think it's ALWAYS the last refuge.

Or always the LAST refuge...
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Brive1987 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:51 pm  •  [Post 20600]

Re jobs and bosses. Fair to say many people have skills relevant to large corps or specialised bodies. Ie not all are suited to entrepreneurial ventures. Chances are the idiot bosses there did not start the business.

Most wage slaves are survivors and just want to be allowed to try and do good things.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby bhoytony » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:52 pm  •  [Post 20601]

Lsuoma wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:
welch wrote:
The irony is, by overly concentrating their efforts in a small area, they've created a target. Think of the screening areas in most major U.S. airports say, the day before thanksgiving or december 23rd. Small area, packed with people, still outside the security zone.

that is a terrifyingly target-rich environment. I'm more nervous about the security area than I am about the plane.


There was one attempt, in Glasgow I think, by a couple of terrorists with a home made car bomb that they tried (and failed) to drive through the doors of one of the terminals.

Propane cylinders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasg ... ort_attack


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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:54 pm  •  [Post 20602]

fwiw, Pamela Gay believes in biorhythms:





c. 10:58 she starts in
"They're so far up their own asses, they've gone full klein bottle. Never go full klein bottle." -- Welch
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby BarnOwl » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:55 pm  •  [Post 20603]

Speaking of life being hard for SJWs, PeeZus has a post up about his Clone's money troubles, and links to the following:

http://www.freezepage.com/1383852651IEAJQTXAAZ

Is it his highfalutin' eco-principles? Or is chronic laziness and the usual sense of entitlement and victimhood?

Ya know, Chris, there ARE ways to make a decent, steady income without selling out to evil corporations. In fact, you can work to protect the environment, preserve ecosystems and wild areas, help those who are truly victims of environmental injustice, identify the ways in which environmental toxins harm the health of humans and non-humans, conserve endangered species, design and develop sustainable technologies, and to be a part of any number of other activities that are, on the whole, green and eco-friendly.

Here's the dealio, though: you have to work. Whether you choose to collaborate and adapt your cancer research to include an environmental mutagenesis component (my choice), or to build your own environmental toxicology consulting business based on your EPA experience (a friend's choice), or whatever it is, you have to work.
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Badger3k » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:56 pm  •  [Post 20604]

PZ has a post up about how life is hard for Chris Clarke (he's such a great writer, but he has no money since he hasn't sold out to evil corporations) - and is begging his "horde" to feed him money. The same horde that ran him off and has apparently very low opinions of him. Is this a test to see how stupid PZs readers are?
PZ Myers definition of irony - 8 October 2013 at 9:15 am (UTC -5) "You don’t get to simultaneously adopt a snide, superior tone AND claim that you’re a martyr"
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

Postby Badger3k » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:57 pm  •  [Post 20605]

Damn - that's some timing.
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