Bleeding from the Bunghole

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Karmakin
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16081

Post by Karmakin »

yomomma wrote:
Tribble wrote:What keeps poor people in the poor people cycle is our social structure. We have, in America, the least mobile society in the West. And it's because of our Libertarian/Morality Police policies that are made as minimal as possible by Conservatives and their Libertarian cousins.
That's an absurd claim. How successful have fiscal Democrats/Liberals been in breaking the cycle of poverty?
Not very successful. But it actually has nothing to do with the business cycle (which is what we're talking about when we're talking about these issues).

It has nothing to do with welfare, or other social services.

What it has to do with is inflation.

To put it simply, in most Western countries the decision was made to stop economies using fiscal tools before they could reach full employment in order to hold wage inflation down. IMO Greenspan's decision to do that at the end of the Clinton presidency was the trigger for the economy up to today.

The best way to fight poverty without social welfare programs is to increase wages. But we've made the decision to hold wages down in order to fight inflation. As such, those social services are the PRICE of low inflation. Poverty is working as intended. People being unable to find decent paying full-time jobs is working as intended.

It's intentional. And yes, both the Democrats and Republicans are to blame, as well as an economic establishment that wouldn't know the proper elasticity of all sorts of things if it snapped back into their face as they're so out of touch with the real world...one based heavily around a service economy...and not still in the pre-globalization industrial world.

And that's the big problem right there. Economics as a whole hasn't realized that economies in the technological age vastly different than economies in the industrial age.

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16082

Post by Steersman »

Gumby wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
"Actually I too think liberal use of the word cunt, in the right context by the right people, is a healthy reaction to people who use it as an epithet to degrade and belittle women or to insult men by comparing them to women’s genitalia. Kate Smurthwaite convinced me of that when I saw her perform in Dublin. But “liberal use” as an epithet by bullies is another matter."
But that is still not her calling anybody a cunt - note her use of "use", as in "liberal use as an epithet". Again a question of the "use-mention" dichotomy that she has discussed in some detail in previous posts on her original blog.

However, I suppose if she has been acting like an upper-class British twit – as you described earlier – then maybe there would be some justification for calling her a twat.

But, as she doesn’t seem to be acting that way in this case, one might wonder what relevance those prior actions might have. Seems to me that, as she suggested on a Richard Dawkins post – the source of Badger’s signature if I’m not mistaken, one might wonder why “cunt” is more prevalent than “prick” or “nigger”. Since they seem rather analogous, one might question the reason for that asymmetry. Are there simply more “cunts” in the class “woman” than there are “pricks” in the class “man”, than “niggers” in the class “black people”? Is the first case simply “more of a gal thing”? Or maybe it is a reflection of some endemic sexism ….

Aneris
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16083

Post by Aneris »

Guest wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.

2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
You are both correct. What Steers meant is called Use-Mention distinction (and error if confused). Yes, that's a thing. Using a word is different from mentioning it in order to discuss the word or its usage. Correctly, a mention puts into quotes, to make the distinction clear. Ophelia doesn't use the word herself, though she now concedes that some people may use(!) it. Interesting. What happened to splash damage and all that? It boils down to what was suspected anyway: it was a token item to draw battle lines between people who accepted prerogative of interpretation of the Commentariat/SJW and those who didn't. An inverse shibboleth, so to speak.

I suspect, the Commentariat is bleeding too much on that front since many very outspoken feminists use the word themselves, which caused many to end up on the block bot. Ophelia Benson certainly knows about it which would explain this maneuvre. Note how she tries to salvage (and rationalize) the previous ideology. As said before, their views always appear as zealous as they are flexible. If not working anymore to aggressively further a personal agenda, it can change.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16084

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Gumby wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
"Actually I too think liberal use of the word cunt, in the right context by the right people, is a healthy reaction to people who use it as an epithet to degrade and belittle women or to insult men by comparing them to women’s genitalia. Kate Smurthwaite convinced me of that when I saw her perform in Dublin. But “liberal use” as an epithet by bullies is another matter."
In other words it's OK to call someone a cunt if they use the word cunt as an epithet?
Wouldn't that make both parties here cunts?
It's OK to call a bully a cunt but it's not bullying to call them a cunt?
Ophie is definitely getting meta these days.

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16085

Post by Steersman »

Guest wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.
True. But it seems they're talking about using the word as an epithet. Not much point otherwise - unless they're all linguists - cunning or otherwise.
Guest wrote:2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
Didn't you just use the word "cunt" - as in your "how does anyone use cunt either liberally ..."? Is that phrase to be construed as an insult? Doesn't look like your argument holds much water - isn't all that *logically* coherent.

Tigzy
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16086

Post by Tigzy »

free thoughtpolice wrote: Ophie is definitely getting meta these days.
Despite the fact that she's clearly starting to lose her Morales.

Parody Accountant
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16087

Post by Parody Accountant »

guestinavest wrote:<snipped>

Cheers.
http://i.imgur.com/eh6Yzy2.jpg

Aneris
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16088

Post by Aneris »

@Parody Accountant
The guest is correct, on some devices you don't have that button. I would also suggest to add the plain link in addition but forget that often, too.

Steersman
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16089

Post by Steersman »

Tigzy wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Tigzy wrote: ....
Such is the nature of the present Pit converstaion - to wit: Pitters who resemble, in their online actions and interactions, characters oft featured in the well known British humour periodical, 'Viz' - that one can safely deduct that I am presenting a statement that you resemble, in the context of present discourse, the aforementioned 'Mr Logic'.
Yes, I kind of gathered you were suggesting a resemblance. I was merely wondering whether you were referring to anything in particular.

But, out of curiosity and in passing, how did you happen to acquire your interest and facility with the ancient accent? I think you mentioned an interest in Samuel Pepys, but it seems it would have to have been more than that.
Steers, what the fuck are you talking about?

That's a parody of how YOU speak!

Just like Mr Logic does.
Ohhhh-kayyyy. So you don't like the way I phrase things. You have anything in particular to say against what I've actually said?

ERV
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16090

Post by ERV »

BarnOwl wrote:
Badger3k wrote: In other news, Steffy is begging for money, and Avicenna is saying something against Thunderf00t (not sure what, couldn't waste the minutes it would take to read his drivel). Ophie finds rape culture where most of us would find a kid connected to a politician gets out of trouble. Not sure about the rest of the article, but going to the "house they used to live in was burned down in mysterious circumstances) to suggest the townspeople burned it down in retaliation for reporting the rapes is a bit much (so far, it could change if I ever think it's worth looking into).
Peezus Christ on a crutch ... they're all medically "special," "unusual," and "rare." What are the chances that they all have (sometimes multiple) rare chronic conditions, unique drug reactions, unusual allergies and autoimmune disorders, etc. etc. And their special medical conditions require that they quit their jobs to get healthy again, and that means cyber-begging with their piteous stories. I've had a few co-workers who develop special chronic conditions and "disabilities" that require reduced working hours and duties for accommodation, yet somehow magically they're always healthy enough and have plenty of spoons to travel to Europe or Australia or ski resorts in the US and Canada to attend fun meetings and conferences.

Fuck that shit.
I noticed with the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome folks-- It was incredible how active they were able to be online, despite their 'inability' to work. Dozens of Tweets a day, active on Facebook and special-interest forums, and look at Svan, able to organize posts full of meticulously screen-capped, uploaded, and organized Tweets from others, with commentary.

But work, no, work is simply too much for her to handle.

Also, ask my partner about my migraines. Ask. Ask how theyve been the past couple of months. You know what I cut back on instead of work? Blogging.

What a fucking loser.

Guest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16091

Post by Guest »

Steersman wrote:
Guest wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.
True. But it seems they're talking about using the word as an epithet. Not much point otherwise - unless they're all linguists - cunning or otherwise.
Guest wrote:2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
Didn't you just use the word "cunt" - as in your "how does anyone use cunt either liberally ..."? Is that phrase to be construed as an insult? Doesn't look like your argument holds much water - isn't all that *logically* coherent.
Mentioning the word "cunt" to ask how one uses the word "cunt" (if I have Aneris correctly) is different from a liberal use of "cunt". As I asked, If liberal means frequently, how do you think Kate Smurthwaite in her performance in Dublin use "cunt" liberally if not as an insult or as the subject of some Steermanian argument? Do you really think not using "cunt" as an insult is what Ophelia is referring to?

Can you as an example use the word "cunt" (not mention it, but use it) in a way that satisfies you and me and the rest of us as a way that Ophelia thinks is some healthy reaction to people using it as an epithet to degrade ad belittle women?

Your cunty argument is most putrescent! I mean sweet to my nostriles! Your cunty taste in movies is tight and narrow and velvety and makes me swoon. You squeezed that lemon and cuntily caught me in the eye!

I think Steersman, that she is trying to "reclaim" the word cunt, much as feminists claim to have reclaimed the word "bitch" by witch they mean precisely, when they call each other bitches, it is ironic and a smashing of the Patriarchy. When you or I use the word bitch it is oppressive and demeaning to women.

Service Dog
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16092

Post by Service Dog »

Guest wrote:
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.

2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult?....Can you provide an example to help me understand?
In answer to #2: Kate Smurthwaite advocates using the word "cunt" as a non-derogatory term for female genitals.

So yes, you're right about #1: there's nothing about the tweet that's inherently different from Smurthwaite's 'liberal use' of the word.

Sounds reasonable, but Kate Smurthwaite has shitty ideas about who "the right people" are-- when it comes to deserving free speech:



My view:
I rarely use it myself but I see a liberal use of the word cunt as an insult to be a healthy reaction to those who seek to ban the word as an insult.

Suet Cardigan
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16093

Post by Suet Cardigan »

Mr Logic is a true skeptic, by the way. When a gypsy asked if he wanted to go into her booth and have his fortune told, he replied:
"The very fact that you find it necessary to ask is surely in itself proof of your inability to forsee, several seconds ago, that, at this point, I would not enter your booth."

Guest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16094

Post by Guest »

Service Dog wrote:
Guest wrote:
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.

2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult?....Can you provide an example to help me understand?
In answer to #2: Kate Smurthwaite advocates using the word "cunt" as a non-derogatory term for female genitals.

So yes, you're right about #1: there's nothing about the tweet that's inherently different from Smurthwaite's 'liberal use' of the word.

Sounds reasonable, but Kate Smurthwaite has shitty ideas about who "the right people" are-- when it comes to deserving free speech:


I see, thank you. My misunderstanding comes from not hearing the words vagina, vulva, or cunt ever used frequently enough to be described as a liberal use.
My view:
I rarely use it myself but I see a liberal use of the word cunt as an insult to be a healthy reaction to those who seek to ban the word as an insult.

Bourne Skeptic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16095

Post by Bourne Skeptic »

ERV wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:
Badger3k wrote: In other news, Steffy is begging for money, and Avicenna is saying something against Thunderf00t (not sure what, couldn't waste the minutes it would take to read his drivel). Ophie finds rape culture where most of us would find a kid connected to a politician gets out of trouble. Not sure about the rest of the article, but going to the "house they used to live in was burned down in mysterious circumstances) to suggest the townspeople burned it down in retaliation for reporting the rapes is a bit much (so far, it could change if I ever think it's worth looking into).
Peezus Christ on a crutch ... they're all medically "special," "unusual," and "rare." What are the chances that they all have (sometimes multiple) rare chronic conditions, unique drug reactions, unusual allergies and autoimmune disorders, etc. etc. And their special medical conditions require that they quit their jobs to get healthy again, and that means cyber-begging with their piteous stories. I've had a few co-workers who develop special chronic conditions and "disabilities" that require reduced working hours and duties for accommodation, yet somehow magically they're always healthy enough and have plenty of spoons to travel to Europe or Australia or ski resorts in the US and Canada to attend fun meetings and conferences.

Fuck that shit.
I noticed with the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome folks-- It was incredible how active they were able to be online, despite their 'inability' to work. Dozens of Tweets a day, active on Facebook and special-interest forums, and look at Svan, able to organize posts full of meticulously screen-capped, uploaded, and organized Tweets from others, with commentary.

But work, no, work is simply too much for her to handle.

Also, ask my partner about my migraines. Ask. Ask how theyve been the past couple of months. You know what I cut back on instead of work? Blogging.

What a fucking loser.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Blogging's more important than putting food on the table. FFS a "real" blogger would know that!!

bhoytony
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16096

Post by bhoytony »

Guest wrote: 2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
I'm guessing you're an American or a different social class to me. Where I live cunt is used every day without it being an insult.

Guest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16097

Post by Guest »

Intriguingly, I know many women that dislike the use of the word cunt in day to day use, but like to hear it during sex. That's their preference.

To use cunt in the liberal frequent feminized world, to reclaim it, would rob these other women of the taboo dirty nasty use of the word they enjoy.

If this loss is great it would be an example of not thinking their cunting plan all the way through.

Guest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16098

Post by Guest »

bhoytony wrote:
Guest wrote: 2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
I'm guessing you're an American or a different social class to me. Where I live cunt is used every day without it being an insult.
American, I plead guilty.

My understanding of the British use was that it was still an insult, just not the horrible c word that it is in the US.

How is it used where you are? (Diagrams might be appreciated).

Bourne Skeptic
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16099

Post by Bourne Skeptic »

Guest wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Guest wrote: 2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
I'm guessing you're an American or a different social class to me. Where I live cunt is used every day without it being an insult.
American, I plead guilty.

My understanding of the British use was that it was still an insult, just not the horrible c word that it is in the US.

How is it used where you are? (Diagrams might be appreciated).
Diagrams, pfft, I want hi res video's.

Tigzy
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16100

Post by Tigzy »

Steersman.

I have nothing against the way you say things. I admit, your verbiage can be excessive, but I continue to remain amused both by your archaic turn of phrase (and yes, you are quite correct, I am a fan of such - ever since I read that Pepys entry of some Royal guests who, as he put it, 'shat in the fireplace, twice in one night!', I have been an admirer), but fuck me sideways old chum - you are quite the most astonishingly literal-minded person I have ever met. Well, okay, 'seen on the internet', but you know what I mean. Hence my likening of you to Mr Logic.

And I have no beef with that Steers, I really don't, but - god, you are fascinating. Your mind is a strange, pristine, crystalline thing, but oddly antiseptic. I do not believe you are incapable of empathy, but I'm pretty sure you'd fail one of those Voight-Kampf tests out of Blade Runner, and have your head shot off in the mistaken belief that you were a replicant. And it can be little unsettling at times, especially when you fail to grasp the most rudimentary humour. I mean, when you write, it's the verbal equivalent of the Uncanny Valley effect. I guess you know what that is, but for the benefit of those who don't, it's that creepy aura you get with figurative images of people which are almost human-like, but not quite. It's a problem which afflicts CGI images (see 'The Polar Express'. Or a rather don't, unless you want a dark, phantasmal horror to hang over your childhood memories of happy Christmases) and animatronics. Your writing is kind of like that.

A bit...unreal. Human...but not quite. But endlessly fascinating, as i've said before.

I have to ask - is poetic or metaphorical language completely alien to you? I mean this seriously. Somehow, you just never seem to quite grasp something which is even vaguely beyond the literal. What were English literature classes like for you when you were a kid? Did you find them hard going?

I mean, take this, from Shakespeares sonnets: 'Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? '

I just can't help but imagine that your response would be a bit like this:

'I really rather think that such a comparison is invalid, as it stretches credibility somewhat to liken an organic physical being to not just a seasonal unit, but a weekly one.'

Blake: 'To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,'

'One cannot conceivably see the world in a grain of sand, as the world is considerably larger that the average piece shoreline silica. As for the latter line, well, I really think the existence of Heaven needs to be established before such a comparison can be presented, unless Mr Blake is blowing smoke out of his ass, of course...'

Really Steers...you do make me wonder, you really do. I honestly hope you leave your body to science, because I think rich and bizarre discoveries could be made from an examination of your neurology. That said, whatever humour I've gleaned at your expense has always been good natured and I do think you're a good guy.

But in a purely clinical sense, you leave me bewildered yet fascinated.

Oh, and this is what excessive verbiage looks like, by the way.

bhoytony
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16101

Post by bhoytony »

Guest wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Guest wrote: 2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
I'm guessing you're an American or a different social class to me. Where I live cunt is used every day without it being an insult.
American, I plead guilty.

My understanding of the British use was that it was still an insult, just not the horrible c word that it is in the US.

How is it used where you are? (Diagrams might be appreciated).
It can be used as an insult, but you often hear it used as a term of affection ("How are you, you wee cunt?") or sometimes just meaning a person ("look at that cunt over there").

another lurker
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16102

Post by another lurker »

Guest wrote:Intriguingly, I know many women that dislike the use of the word cunt in day to day use, but like to hear it during sex. That's their preference.

To use cunt in the liberal frequent feminized world, to reclaim it, would rob these other women of the taboo dirty nasty use of the word they enjoy.

If this loss is great it would be an example of not thinking their cunting plan all the way through.

Back in my IRC days, we had some very specific rules for our #philosophicus channel. First of all, 'can't and 'count' had to be spelled as 'cunt' at all times. And 'come', predictably, had to be spelled as 'cum' :P

Service Dog
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16103

Post by Service Dog »

Kate Smurthwaite has blogged that her surname translates as "Rainy Twat". I guess it runs in the family.

Smurthwaite is one of those ban-the-lad-magazines censorship people:
http://cruellablog.blogspot.com/2005/10 ... -mags.html

Reasons she gives:

pictures of topless women are bad.

use of terms like "air bags" for breasts is bad.

allusions to sodomy are bad.

celebrities are interviewed about their sex lives, not other achievements.

"Every woman who leaves her home to work or socialise runs the risk of seeing these magazines every day."

"there is little or no mention of (1) contraception (2) STDs, (3) unwanted pregnancy or, heaven forbid, (4) responsibility for other's feelings int he context of relationships. So yes, on balance I would say that, as a feminist, I am VERY bothered by the latest generation of so-called "Lad Mags" "

Guest

Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16104

Post by Guest »

bhoytony wrote:
It can be used as an insult, but you often hear it used as a term of affection ("How are you, you wee cunt?") or sometimes just meaning a person ("look at that cunt over there").
Interesting. With American eyes, I would have thought that was still an insult.

I will try to incorporate it as a non insulting generic in the comments in my code in place of "J. Random Loser". I'll try to start writing "J. Random Cunt" in an effort to detabooize it and help Ophelia reclaim it and take it back.

ianfc
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16105

Post by ianfc »

I'm not too sure about this cunt stuff, is it ok to call a vagina a cunt; ie if there's no slur.

yomomma
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16106

Post by yomomma »

Karmakin wrote:
yomomma wrote:
Tribble wrote:What keeps poor people in the poor people cycle is our social structure. We have, in America, the least mobile society in the West. And it's because of our Libertarian/Morality Police policies that are made as minimal as possible by Conservatives and their Libertarian cousins.
That's an absurd claim. How successful have fiscal Democrats/Liberals been in breaking the cycle of poverty?
Not very successful. But it actually has nothing to do with the business cycle (which is what we're talking about when we're talking about these issues).

It has nothing to do with welfare, or other social services.

What it has to do with is inflation.

To put it simply, in most Western countries the decision was made to stop economies using fiscal tools before they could reach full employment in order to hold wage inflation down. IMO Greenspan's decision to do that at the end of the Clinton presidency was the trigger for the economy up to today.

The best way to fight poverty without social welfare programs is to increase wages. But we've made the decision to hold wages down in order to fight inflation. As such, those social services are the PRICE of low inflation. Poverty is working as intended. People being unable to find decent paying full-time jobs is working as intended.

It's intentional. And yes, both the Democrats and Republicans are to blame, as well as an economic establishment that wouldn't know the proper elasticity of all sorts of things if it snapped back into their face as they're so out of touch with the real world...one based heavily around a service economy...and not still in the pre-globalization industrial world.

And that's the big problem right there. Economics as a whole hasn't realized that economies in the technological age vastly different than economies in the industrial age.
Thanks for that. I'm gonna go stick my head in the toilet now. :( <-- sad reality face

AndrewV69
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16107

Post by AndrewV69 »

Aneris wrote: I suspect, the Commentariat is bleeding too much on that front since many very outspoken feminists use the word themselves, which caused many to end up on the block bot. Ophelia Benson certainly knows about it which would explain this maneuvre. Note how she tries to salvage (and rationalize) the previous ideology. As said before, their views always appear as zealous as they are flexible. If not working anymore to aggressively further a personal agenda, it can change.
Did they really? If true that tickles my funny bone. LAWL!

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16108

Post by Pitchguest »

Steersman wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:
Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
I don’t think she said “use of cunt in a derogatory fashion is … only a healthy reaction”. I expect she is utilizing her “use-mention” concept, that it is ok to describe people using the word by saying they are using the word, to mention the word itself in stating that.

Seems to me that you might be reading in something there she didn’t mean, although I’ll concede that that might be due to some nuances of the language.

But I’ll also suggest that she might have a point or two – calling one or two women cunts, or one of two men pricks, or one or two black people niggers, might be excused on the basis of simply insulting someone – for a good reason or not. More frequent use of the words is likely to suggest some sexism or racism. IMHO.
No, Steers, she says, quite verbatim, "in the right context, by the right people", it's acceptable to use the word "cunt" to denigrate people. However, what's more is that she's saying liberal use of "cunt" is a *healthy reaction* if it's used against other people who use the word exactly in the way she prescribes, i.e. to belittle women or to "to insult men by comparing them to women's genitals." (I suppose Ophie just hates everyone then, when she constantly insults people by comparing them to anal orifices. Geez. Way to be clinical.)

The thing is, though, who decides who are "the right people"? Benson? Who decides who are the "bullies"? Since neither one of us presumably use the word "cunt" in the precise manner Ophie describes it's acceptable to call other people cunts in retaliation (belittlement, discrimination) then one can only draw the conclusion that we are "the right people" and thus have the right to several liberal uses of the word "cunt" respectively, yes?

But then at the same time we're supposed to be the baddies with skulls as teacups so does that mean we are the "bullies" after all?

Or is it we are just dealing with a massive hypocrite and we don't actually have to listen or adhere to one single word she's saying?

Yeah. That sounds about right.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16109

Post by bhoytony »

Isn't there something the Advertising Standards Authority can do about Kate Smurthwaite calling herself a comedian? Has anybody ever heard her attempts at humour? She's about as funny as cancer.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16110

Post by Service Dog »

Aneris wrote:Ophelia doesn't use the word herself, though she now concedes that some people may use(!) it. Interesting. What happened to splash damage and all that? It boils down to what was suspected anyway: it was a token item to draw battle lines between people who accepted prerogative of interpretation of the Commentariat/SJW and those who didn't. An inverse shibboleth, so to speak.
Ophelia does use 'cunt' now, and credits that to Smurthwaite.

See Ophie's use of "cunt" in her July 15 post and the 2nd comment: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... om-insult/

So, like you said, what happened to 'splash damage' and all that?
Smurthwaite's usage of cunt scores several boxes on the SJ bingo card Jen McCreight once posted:


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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16111

Post by Pitchguest »

Steersman wrote:
Gumby wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:
Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
It's the standard FtB code of ethics:

"It's OK when we do it".
As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
No one is saying she called anyone a cunt, Steers.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16112

Post by AndrewV69 »

ERV wrote:I noticed with the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome folks-- It was incredible how active they were able to be online, despite their 'inability' to work. Dozens of Tweets a day, active on Facebook and special-interest forums, and look at Svan, able to organize posts full of meticulously screen-capped, uploaded, and organized Tweets from others, with commentary.

But work, no, work is simply too much for her to handle.

Also, ask my partner about my migraines. Ask. Ask how theyve been the past couple of months. You know what I cut back on instead of work? Blogging.

What a fucking loser.
All for naught to you work seeing as the burning question of the day is now can a foot cream really do battle with HIV?.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16113

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Pitchguest wrote:
Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
Standard Ophelian wall of wrong. Assumes cunt is used as a sexist epithet, assumes motivation, draws analogies with physically harmful acts. Intellectually dishonest, inability to see anything except confirmation of her prejudices.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16114

Post by Brive1987 »

katamari Damassi wrote:I use to be a regular listener to The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe, but got bored with it some months ago and stopped. Well I've been doing a lot of long distance driving lately and I've found that listening to podcasts passes the time better than listening to music, so I've been stocking up on a bunch-including SGU. I've actually been enjoying it again. If all I knew of Twatson was from SGU I'd actually have a decent opinion of her. The Novella's must have her on a short leash. In the latest podcast they interview sex therapist Marty Klein(whose voice I find distractingly sexy)who says a lot of things that would have SJW's screaming "GENDER ESSENTIALISM!" and "RAPE APOLOGY!" yet Rebecca keeps her mouth shut through the whole thing.
In the previous podcast they discuss PopSci's decision to close comments on their site, and though Bec's participates in the discussion I don't think she mentions that she will be blogging for them and she doesn't go into her usual internet harassment victimization spiel though the situation presents a golden opportunity to do so.
I think RW is only present for part of the show. She rarely contributes to the seperately recorded interviews (ie she has no potential to impress and everything to lose by opening her mouth) and I dont hear much evidence that she is present at many of them. When she is, she keeps to the "comic relief, let me reinforce your point with a banal anecdote" patter she has down pat.

Her overall contribution can be summarised as: This Day in Skepticism bit, where Steve has admonished her for dredging up obscure female references, snark and canned skepticism in the news items, a popsci for her prepared piece and then she trails off with the "I know nothing about any of these" line for fact or fiction. interviews with real scientists? Not so much.

A number of triggering topics and comments have occurred recently and RW tiptoed thru them like broken glass. She knows the SGU is the last connection she has to any form of "big time" within the community.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16115

Post by Southern »

Someone, please, call Dr. Hoggle to get a prescription for a good old cunt kick to Ophelia.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16116

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Pitchguest wrote:
As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
No one is saying she called anyone a cunt, Steers.[/quote]

I thought you were when you said:
No, Steers, she says, quite verbatim, "in the right context, by the right people", it's acceptable to use the word "cunt" to denigrate people. However, what's more is that she's saying liberal use of "cunt" is a *healthy reaction* if it's used against other people who use the word exactly in the way she prescribes, i.e. to belittle women or to "to insult men by comparing them to women's genitals." (I suppose Ophie just hates everyone then, when she constantly insults people by comparing them to anal orifices. Geez. Way to be clinical.)

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16117

Post by Karmakin »

yomomma wrote:
Karmakin wrote: Not very successful. But it actually has nothing to do with the business cycle (which is what we're talking about when we're talking about these issues).

It has nothing to do with welfare, or other social services.

What it has to do with is inflation.

To put it simply, in most Western countries the decision was made to stop economies using fiscal tools before they could reach full employment in order to hold wage inflation down. IMO Greenspan's decision to do that at the end of the Clinton presidency was the trigger for the economy up to today.

The best way to fight poverty without social welfare programs is to increase wages. But we've made the decision to hold wages down in order to fight inflation. As such, those social services are the PRICE of low inflation. Poverty is working as intended. People being unable to find decent paying full-time jobs is working as intended.

It's intentional. And yes, both the Democrats and Republicans are to blame, as well as an economic establishment that wouldn't know the proper elasticity of all sorts of things if it snapped back into their face as they're so out of touch with the real world...one based heavily around a service economy...and not still in the pre-globalization industrial world.

And that's the big problem right there. Economics as a whole hasn't realized that economies in the technological age vastly different than economies in the industrial age.
Thanks for that. I'm gonna go stick my head in the toilet now. :( <-- sad reality face
Didn't mean to depress you too much :(

But unfortunately that is reality. I understand what you're saying. You work hard, and it's not fair that people get by without doing the same when you don't have that option. I understand it, and I feel it myself from time to time. The thing is, if you're coming at it from an ethical point of view, which obviously you are, that requires wanting everybody to succeed to some degree. However if we're actively working to prevent that, then the Libertarian boot-strap concept loses a lot of its ethical charm.

Like I said. I think the welfare state is a shitty option. But it might be the best option we have out of a whole hose of really shitty options. I happen to think that it's POSSIBLE to make a full-employment economy work. But it involves cultural change (delinking price and worth) and managerial change (the realization that at a certain point throwing more money at works is less effective than not being a dick)

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16118

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Steersman wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:
Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
I don’t think she said “use of cunt in a derogatory fashion is … only a healthy reaction”. I expect she is utilizing her “use-mention” concept, that it is ok to describe people using the word by saying they are using the word, to mention the word itself in stating that.

Seems to me that you might be reading in something there she didn’t mean, although I’ll concede that that might be due to some nuances of the language.

But I’ll also suggest that she might have a point or two – calling one or two women cunts, or one of two men pricks, or one or two black people niggers, might be excused on the basis of simply insulting someone – for a good reason or not. More frequent use of the words is likely to suggest some sexism or racism. IMHO.
If Benson is talking about "use-mention", then she picked a bad example. Perhaps you are also putting words in her mouth. I would suggest that when it comes to Benson she herself probably doesn't have a clear idea of what her muddled mewlings actually mean.
Smurthwaite wrote: Is David Cameron a cunt? Is he? Look, I love the c-word too but can we stop using it as the worst of all possible insults? Cunts are marvellous, trust me, I've got one. And despite my best efforts my cunt has never closed down the NHS

Brive1987
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16119

Post by Brive1987 »

Guest wrote:
Steersman wrote: As mentioned or suggested, I think you're missing her point. She didn't call anybody a cunt - at least that I can see. All she is doing is pointing out that someone else is doing so - and mentioning the word in the process. Very different kettles of fish - methinks. Doesn't help "our" credibility, I think, to ignore that distinction.
1. In the tweet she quoted, no one called anyone a cunt. They just use cunt liberally.

2. Just how does anyone use cunt either liberally or in the "right context by the right people" without using it as an insult? "Oh Oolon, I love your cunty bot!" "O PZ you squirt blog posts lie a cunt in May" "O PhysioProffe ye queynte is sweete" Can you provide an example to help me understand?
In Australia Cunt is used by many males as a term of endearment. "G'day, mate, yer old cunt, how'es it hanging?" And then a kangaroo jumps across the street to the laughing of a kookaburra.

Lsuoma
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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16120

Post by Lsuoma »

Southern wrote:Someone, please, call Dr. Hoggle to get a prescription for a good old cunt kick to Ophelia.
Meh, he'd have to undergo sex change first - he only said he'd do it if he was a woman.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16121

Post by Service Dog »

Kate Smurthwaite's claim to fame is a video clip-- in which a preacher says "every aborted child is in Heaven",
-- and Smurthwaite replies, "So, wouldn't we be doing them a favor by aborting them?"

The clip went viral on youtube and ebaumsworld.

The people who posted the clip gave it the title "Atheist Bitchslap".

The term Bitchslap quite-clearly derives from violence against women.

Now remember Smurthwaite's principles for proper use of cunt: "the right people" have to use it in a non-insulting manner.

To test drive Smurthwaite's principles in practice, let's look at how she reacted to youtubers and ebaumsworld d00dz associating the term "bitchslap" with her clip:

"I generally think the term "b*tch" is an unpleasant one, but in this case it seems to be being used positively so I don't mind."


Hmm, perhaps "principles" was too strong a word for Kate Smurthaite's... utterances? flights of fancy?... rationalizations.



http://cruellablog.blogspot.com/2011/10 ... ernet.html

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16122

Post by Liesmith »

ERV wrote: I noticed with the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome folks-- It was incredible how active they were able to be online, despite their 'inability' to work. Dozens of Tweets a day, active on Facebook and special-interest forums, and look at Svan, able to organize posts full of meticulously screen-capped, uploaded, and organized Tweets from others, with commentary.

But work, no, work is simply too much for her to handle.

Also, ask my partner about my migraines. Ask. Ask how theyve been the past couple of months. You know what I cut back on instead of work? Blogging.

What a fucking loser.
Abbie, don't do that. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a very real, very life-damaging ailment that I, myself suffer from. To be exact, I suffer from the rare, extra oppressive, form of the disorder, known as "Chronic Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Syndrome". When I eat an entire pizza, then lay in bed for six hours playing Pokemon Y, I feel an almost irresistible urge to sleep for eighteen hours. You need to stop talking down to sufferers of this syndrome, and instead listen and try to learn.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16123

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Steersman wrote:. Not much point otherwise - unless they're all linguists - cunning or otherwise.

Can people (you) stop using "cunning linguist" as a - there's almost certainly a correct word for it, but let's go with euphemism - for "cunt". It isn't. It's a euphemism for "cunnilingus".

Shove that up your logical arsehole.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16124

Post by ROBOKiTTY »

People should try not to knock those who are unable to work but able to engage in low-stress activities. People respond differently to different levels of stress. The attitude that you're somehow faking it if you're able to go on a holiday or do hobbyist stuff but not work is very damaging.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16125

Post by Parody Accountant »

ROBOKiTTY wrote:People should try not to knock those who are unable to work but able to engage in low-stress activities. People respond differently to different levels of stress. The attitude that you're somehow faking it if you're able to go on a holiday or do hobbyist stuff but not work is very damaging.
I was going to disagree with a clever joke about chronic fatigue, but I

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16126

Post by Bourne Skeptic »

ROBOKiTTY wrote:People should try not to knock those who are unable to work but able to engage in low-stress activities. People respond differently to different levels of stress. The attitude that you're somehow faking it if you're able to go on a holiday or do hobbyist stuff but not work is very damaging.
My holidays are so stressful I need another vacation to recover from the last one and then another to recover from that one. This vicious cycle of vacations and recovery isn't for the faint of heart, but I try to keep my chin up and I endeavor to persevere.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16127

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

ROBOKiTTY wrote:People should try not to knock those who are unable to work but able to engage in low-stress activities. People respond differently to different levels of stress. The attitude that you're somehow faking it if you're able to go on a holiday or do hobbyist stuff but not work is very damaging.
Plus 1. But it's the number of such people who frequent the FfTB ad A+Theism boards, and who claim to be suffering from various non-specific (and often mysteriously undiagnosed) diseases that arouses...suspicion? Questions? Skepticism?

Seems like most of PZ Meyers's commenters are suffering from some sort of disturbance in the miasma, which, conveniently, their doctors are unable to give a name to.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16128

Post by Aneris »

Service Dog wrote:
Aneris wrote:Ophelia doesn't use the word herself, though she now concedes that some people may use(!) it. Interesting. What happened to splash damage and all that? It boils down to what was suspected anyway: it was a token item to draw battle lines between people who accepted prerogative of interpretation of the Commentariat/SJW and those who didn't. An inverse shibboleth, so to speak.
Ophelia does use 'cunt' now, and credits that to Smurthwaite.

See Ophie's use of "cunt" in her July 15 post and the 2nd comment: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... om-insult/

So, like you said, what happened to 'splash damage' and all that?
Smurthwaite's usage of cunt scores several boxes on the SJ bingo card Jen McCreight once posted:

It is possible she does use it somewhere, but not in the examples I've seen so far. Not in your example, either. Or I didn't see it. In the main article she is translating one slang word with another to explain to her audience why it is a problem, and mentions “cunt” because “vagina” wouldn't be the correct counterpart. I understood she is saying: look, here is some sexist politican who says “cunt”, but since this is Ireland, their word is “fanny”. Both of these instances are mentions, not uses. She also discusses language, and is not using the word to insult someone. Finally, she disapproves of the use of such terms in the article, which is also consistent with what I have seen of her so far.

It is correct that in the second comment, another mention, where she explains why typing “cunt” instead of “vagina” would be okay, when it means female genitalia, i.e. synonymous as “vagina”. This indeed suggests that she could have used the word. But since she is describing usage of words, I still maintain it's a mention, or would then suggest that given her near allergic reaction to the word that any ambiguity would be resolved with keeping what is consistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80% ... istinction

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16129

Post by Skep tickle »

ianfc wrote:I'm not too sure about this cunt stuff, is it ok to call a vagina a cunt; ie if there's no slur.
It's okay, if you're cuntfortable using it that way.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16130

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

To make this much simpler, if Ophilia Benson wants to hear the word "cunt" used less, she should stop being one. Any rationale of "words are good when used in this approved way" is bullshit. I will happily give up using the word when SJW stop using "dick"(and any permutation of that word) asshole, dudebro, mansplaining and any other gendered insult I've forgotten.

While I appreciate wanting to keep the good reputation of the 'pit intact :roll: I do not think we will get there by proscribing what language is acceptable for usage. Incorrect or gratuitous use of the word will identify those that are just in it for the lulz, and proper usage will be found in whatever context it naturally inhabits, not by "proper" usage as defined by a bunch of cunts.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16131

Post by Skep tickle »

Anatomically, isn't "cunt" usually used to refer to the vulva + vagina, not solely one or the other? That's been my impression. *shrug* Seems like a useful term, for that reason alone.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16132

Post by Steersman »

Aneris wrote:
Service Dog wrote:
Aneris wrote:Ophelia doesn't use the word herself, though she now concedes that some people may use(!) it. Interesting. What happened to splash damage and all that? It boils down to what was suspected anyway: it was a token item to draw battle lines between people who accepted prerogative of interpretation of the Commentariat/SJW and those who didn't. An inverse shibboleth, so to speak.
Ophelia does use 'cunt' now, and credits that to Smurthwaite.

See Ophie's use of "cunt" in her July 15 post and the 2nd comment: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... om-insult/

So, like you said, what happened to 'splash damage' and all that?
Smurthwaite's usage of cunt scores several boxes on the SJ bingo card Jen McCreight once posted:

It is possible she does use it somewhere, but not in the examples I've seen so far. Not in your example, either. Or I didn't see it. In the main article she is translating one slang word with another to explain to her audience why it is a problem, and mentions “cunt” because “vagina” wouldn't be the correct counterpart. I understood she is saying: look, here is some sexist politican who says “cunt”, but since this is Ireland, their word is “fanny”. Both of these instances are mentions, not uses. She also discusses language, and is not using the word to insult someone. Finally, she disapproves of the use of such terms in the article, which is also consistent with what I have seen of her so far.

It is correct that in the second comment, another mention, where she explains why typing “cunt” instead of “vagina” would be okay, when it means female genitalia, i.e. synonymous as “vagina”. This indeed suggests that she could have used the word. But since she is describing usage of words, I still maintain it's a mention, or would then suggest that given her near allergic reaction to the word that any ambiguity would be resolved with keeping what is consistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80% ... istinction
In one of her pre-FftB posts she mentions some woman describing her bicycle seat as a “cunt-buster”. Which I think she thought was acceptable.

And I think you’re correct that “she disapproves of the use of such terms in the article, which is also consistent with what I have seen of her so far”. For instance, her later comment:
I suppose I was adopting Kate Smurthwaite’s practice (and I’m sure she’s not the only one) of using the word as the normal word for the female genitalia, as opposed to as an epithet.
Although I suppose it does highlight the fact that that word – probably with many if not most – can be used with many different connotations – some of them pejorative, and some of them not. But I also suppose that it is an encouraging sign that some in the benighted environs of FftB-land are beginning to see the light on the question.

However, I wonder, as someone here suggested, how that will square with the claims of “splash damage” – one of the more egregious claims to come out of that neck of the woods. Pretty ridiculous, and not terribly skeptical, to think that just because one shares some attribute with some other individual who is targeted with an insult which uses a pejorative connotation of that attribute that therefore one has to feel insulted as well.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16133

Post by Steersman »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:To make this much simpler, if Ophilia Benson wants to hear the word "cunt" used less, she should stop being one. Any rationale of "words are good when used in this approved way" is bullshit. I will happily give up using the word when SJW stop using "dick"(and any permutation of that word) asshole, dudebro, mansplaining and any other gendered insult I've forgotten.

While I appreciate wanting to keep the good reputation of the 'pit intact :roll: I do not think we will get there by proscribing what language is acceptable for usage. Incorrect or gratuitous use of the word will identify those that are just in it for the lulz, and proper usage will be found in whatever context it naturally inhabits, not by "proper" usage as defined by a bunch of cunts.
I can sympathize. However, while “Reason” is a great thing, it seems that it can also be used merely to support and buttress highly questionable biases and bigotries. As Hume put it, “`Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.”

And relative to the question of epithets, logically and analogously speaking, one has to give some consideration to Benson’s question as to why there is such a disparity in the use of various epithets. Why, for instance, aren’t we using “nigger” more frequently, of say Obama and Neil deGrasse Tyson?

One might reasonably ask what are the reasons for that disparity, what are the different assumptions and values that undergird the different responses and behaviours.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16134

Post by Steersman »

Parody Accountant wrote:
ROBOKiTTY wrote:People should try not to knock those who are unable to work but able to engage in low-stress activities. People respond differently to different levels of stress. The attitude that you're somehow faking it if you're able to go on a holiday or do hobbyist stuff but not work is very damaging.
I was going to disagree with a clever joke about chronic fatigue, but I
... fell asleep? ;-)

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16135

Post by Steersman »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Steersman wrote:. Not much point otherwise - unless they're all linguists - cunning or otherwise.
Can people (you) stop using "cunning linguist" as a - there's almost certainly a correct word for it, but let's go with euphemism - for "cunt". It isn't. It's a euphemism for "cunnilingus". ...
No. For one thing, I was trying to suggest, with possibly too much verbiage for the impatient, that if a bunch of linguists – cunning or otherwise – were discussing the word – presumably, their stock-in-trade, their claims to fame if not fortune – then that would have been a case of them engaging, presumably, in mentioning the word, rather than using it as either an epithet or as a descriptive term.

And for another, it isn’t, entirely in any case, a euphemism, but a pun. Logically speaking, of course.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16136

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:To make this much simpler, if Ophilia Benson wants to hear the word "cunt" used less, she should stop being one. Any rationale of "words are good when used in this approved way" is bullshit. I will happily give up using the word when SJW stop using "dick"(and any permutation of that word) asshole, dudebro, mansplaining and any other gendered insult I've forgotten.

While I appreciate wanting to keep the good reputation of the 'pit intact :roll: I do not think we will get there by proscribing what language is acceptable for usage. Incorrect or gratuitous use of the word will identify those that are just in it for the lulz, and proper usage will be found in whatever context it naturally inhabits, not by "proper" usage as defined by a bunch of cunts.
I can sympathize. However, while “Reason” is a great thing, it seems that it can also be used merely to support and buttress highly questionable biases and bigotries. As Hume put it, “`Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.”

And relative to the question of epithets, logically and analogously speaking, one has to give some consideration to Benson’s question as to why there is such a disparity in the use of various epithets. Why, for instance, aren’t we using “nigger” more frequently, of say Obama and Neil deGrasse Tyson?

One might reasonably ask what are the reasons for that disparity, what are the different assumptions and values that undergird the different responses and behaviours.
The use of the word "nigger" is simply not at all appropriate in these instances. I might use the word when I'm in the certain company of dark-skinned individuals, others I would not. I am not sure it is an apt analogy-Speaking for myself, I find that while I hardly ever used the word cunt before, I now find it indispensable because it is so rigidly proscribed in SJWspeak. Perhaps I want to illustrate that gendered insults are no fun when you are on the receiving end of said insults. Maybe it's used because we are told it is wrong to use it certain ways, and like being mischievous and child-like (or childish) so we latch on to it to show our rebellion. Whatever the motivation, the object is clear-some people will not bow down to demands made by bloviating ideologues. Doing so seems to be surrendering the argument to them when the whole of their argument boils down to "it's okay when we do it."

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16137

Post by Steersman »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... -too-many/
http://i.imgur.com/S2Jnb00.jpg&#91;/quote]

Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
<snip>
But I’ll also suggest that she might have a point or two – calling one or two women cunts, or one of two men pricks, or one or two black people niggers, might be excused on the basis of simply insulting someone – for a good reason or not. More frequent use of the words is likely to suggest some sexism or racism. IMHO.
If Benson is talking about "use-mention", then she picked a bad example. Perhaps you are also putting words in her mouth. I would suggest that when it comes to Benson she herself probably doesn't have a clear idea of what her muddled mewlings actually mean.
Smurthwaite wrote: Is David Cameron a cunt? Is he? Look, I love the c-word too but can we stop using it as the worst of all possible insults? Cunts are marvellous, trust me, I've got one. And despite my best efforts my cunt has never closed down the NHS
Always possible that I’m doing that – putting words in her mouth. Why I look for and try to quote what people actually say. And, as mentioned, her words strongly suggest she differentiates between using the word as an eptithet and as a description for female genitalia.

And even Smurthwaite is doing that, as that comment of Benson’s I just finished quoting emphasizes. I think it important to ask ourselves why “cunt” is – according to any number of sources, including the New Zealand broadcasting corporation, and as Smurtwaite put it – “the worst of all possible insults”.

Are women – generally and statistically speaking – so delicate as to be shocked – yea, even to the very fibre of their being – into catatonia at being confronted, through the magic of words, with the image of their genitalia? Does that “vulnernability” give free rein for many men to be dickheads about using the word? Are there simply more “cunts” than “pricks”? Or than “niggers”? Inquiring minds and all that.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16138

Post by Steersman »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
And relative to the question of epithets, logically and analogously speaking, one has to give some consideration to Benson’s question as to why there is such a disparity in the use of various epithets. Why, for instance, aren’t we using “nigger” more frequently, of say Obama and Neil deGrasse Tyson?

One might reasonably ask what are the reasons for that disparity, what are the different assumptions and values that undergird the different responses and behaviours.
The use of the word "nigger" is simply not at all appropriate in these instances. I might use the word when I'm in the certain company of dark-skinned individuals, others I would not. I am not sure it is an apt analogy-Speaking for myself, I find that while I hardly ever used the word cunt before, I now find it indispensable because it is so rigidly proscribed in SJWspeak. Perhaps I want to illustrate that gendered insults are no fun when you are on the receiving end of said insults. Maybe it's used because we are told it is wrong to use it certain ways, and like being mischievous and child-like (or childish) so we latch on to it to show our rebellion. Whatever the motivation, the object is clear-some people will not bow down to demands made by bloviating ideologues. Doing so seems to be surrendering the argument to them when the whole of their argument boils down to "it's okay when we do it."
But you haven’t actually proven that Benson in particular is using or has actually used the word as an insult. Rather questionable to be hanging your argument on such a tenuous “beef”. Rather like “guilty until proven innocent”.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16139

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Steersman wrote:
Wait, what? Liberal use of the word "cunt" in a derogatory fashion to "belittle women and insult men" is only a healthy reaction when it's used in the right context by the right people?

What the fuck is she talking about?
<snip>
But I’ll also suggest that she might have a point or two – calling one or two women cunts, or one of two men pricks, or one or two black people niggers, might be excused on the basis of simply insulting someone – for a good reason or not. More frequent use of the words is likely to suggest some sexism or racism. IMHO.[/quote]
If Benson is talking about "use-mention", then she picked a bad example. Perhaps you are also putting words in her mouth. I would suggest that when it comes to Benson she herself probably doesn't have a clear idea of what her muddled mewlings actually mean.
Smurthwaite wrote: Is David Cameron a cunt? Is he? Look, I love the c-word too but can we stop using it as the worst of all possible insults? Cunts are marvellous, trust me, I've got one. And despite my best efforts my cunt has never closed down the NHS
[/quote]
Always possible that I’m doing that – putting words in her mouth. Why I look for and try to quote what people actually say. And, as mentioned, her words strongly suggest she differentiates between using the word as an eptithet and as a description for female genitalia.

And even Smurthwaite is doing that, as that comment of Benson’s I just finished quoting emphasizes. I think it important to ask ourselves why “cunt” is – according to any number of sources, including the New Zealand broadcasting corporation, and as Smurtwaite put it – “the worst of all possible insults”.

Are women – generally and statistically speaking – so delicate as to be shocked – yea, even to the very fibre of their being – into catatonia at being confronted, through the magic of words, with the image of their genitalia? Does that “vulnernability” give free rein for many men to be dickheads about using the word? Are there simply more “cunts” than “pricks”? Or than “niggers”? Inquiring minds and all that.[/quote]
Steersman, I can't help thinking you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes, she explained that she was using the word because she had to use the word to talk about the word. The other words-prick, etc, SJW use all the time, presumably because males have so much privilege that it's fine to use gendered insults against them. The problem is simple-they are spending all their time and energy being offended by language, the poor, delicate dears, that they have no time for real problems. Their objection to the word cunt is an easy red herring that they can dangle to derail arguments, to dismiss people and to generally get their knickers in a knot. Righteous anger is their bread and butter. It reinforces the stereotype of the delicate, fainting-couch woman, too delicate to hear such awful, gendered slurs.

I absolutely guarantee that if everybody in the pit stopped using the word, even if the world over stopped using the word, they would find something else, another word, phrase or stern look that would offend them just as much. It is the side show,the distraction so they don't have to answer the very real problems and holes in their positions and arguments. Let them latch onto that objection. Their hypocrisy in objecting to that word while creating new derogatory terms for men and other out-group folk serve as a warning sign to those self-aware enough to catch the rank stench of hypocrisy.

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Re: Bleeding from the Bunghole

#16140

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Steersman wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
And relative to the question of epithets, logically and analogously speaking, one has to give some consideration to Benson’s question as to why there is such a disparity in the use of various epithets. Why, for instance, aren’t we using “nigger” more frequently, of say Obama and Neil deGrasse Tyson?

One might reasonably ask what are the reasons for that disparity, what are the different assumptions and values that undergird the different responses and behaviours.
The use of the word "nigger" is simply not at all appropriate in these instances. I might use the word when I'm in the certain company of dark-skinned individuals, others I would not. I am not sure it is an apt analogy-Speaking for myself, I find that while I hardly ever used the word cunt before, I now find it indispensable because it is so rigidly proscribed in SJWspeak. Perhaps I want to illustrate that gendered insults are no fun when you are on the receiving end of said insults. Maybe it's used because we are told it is wrong to use it certain ways, and like being mischievous and child-like (or childish) so we latch on to it to show our rebellion. Whatever the motivation, the object is clear-some people will not bow down to demands made by bloviating ideologues. Doing so seems to be surrendering the argument to them when the whole of their argument boils down to "it's okay when we do it."
But you haven’t actually proven that Benson in particular is using or has actually used the word as an insult. Rather questionable to be hanging your argument on such a tenuous “beef”. Rather like “guilty until proven innocent”.
I don't care if she's using it as in insult or not-often an insult is in the eye of the beholder. I really, absolutely do not care. She uses the word, we use the word. My point is that gendered slurs are either wrong, and all sides disarm, or we simply decide to pay attention to the substance of what somebody has to say, rather than get bogged down in parsing fucking insults. Really, that's all it is.

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