Periodic Table of Swearing

[Tkmlac]

Yeah my beef with some of the various MRA movements as well is that they are really born out of Gender Feminism concepts, and as such tend to be flawed as well. That said, I do think that as a whole MRA-ism (weird word but whatever) is getting better, while Feminism is getting worse, unfortunately. But this is my memory of things going a way back, and things have changed a lot over the last year or two.

Predictions for the next year: It's the same prediction I make everywhere. There's going to be a bit of a spotlight...not a hugely bright one but it'll get people's attention...on these issues, and it's not going to be pretty. I think people are going to get increasingly fed up with the antics of all the various Social Justice Warrior groups (A+ is one of them, even if many of them don't even realize it), and there's going to be a bit of a shock as they realize that it's not just a small bunch of miscontented trolls, but it's that people who think that their brand of "social justice" is fail.

I personally don't like feminism because it blames the entire other gender for all its ills and refuses to admit that the same ills of a patriarchal society also negatively affect that other gender, but I look at MRA sites and they do the very same thing, refusing to acknowledge women's struggles and putting all the blame on the other gender. It's like looking at a mirror.

Well, you should look again, because the sites I visit, from Glennsacks.com, to Fathers & Families, to AVFM do not do this, at all.

Most acknowledge and respect many of the feminist movements for much progress in needed areas, explicitly acknowledging women's struggles. And I've never seen any of them put all the blame on the other gender. Put much of the blame on feminists? Yes. Put much of the blame on the opposite sex? No.

I will look again, as most of my run-ins have been Youtube, twitter and reddit. I still have a problem with the "mangina" thing, because it reminds me too much of "chill girl" and I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for not being "enough" this-or-that gender stereotype. A problem I also have with both feminsim and mra is the sometimes ignorance, but often times straight up bashing of transgendered and transexual people. Both sides say things like, "I'm going to call you a man if you have a penis," without acknowledging a person's right to their own identity. The radfems even go so far as saying they should ban transgirls from women's restrooms. Who the fuck is going to check between everyone's legs before they enter? wtf? I just don't get it. Live and let live, you know?

[Eucliwood]

Yeah, that's what I mean... on one side you have some feminists who are sexistwithit, and some MRAs who are sexistwithit, both criticizing extreme people from the other side... hypocritical.

[welch]

Pretty much, yes.

I don't use words like n* either, and I think that arguably most non black people who do are dimwits or worse. I am not saying they should be banned, but the arguments that it's somehow a funny word, or they use it I should be able to use it, are pretty nonsensical.

As I've said repeatedly, talking about fathers rights and mens rights is difficult enough with my friends who love me and support me and know what shit I've had to go through to see my kids, and associating myself with people that use words like mangina will just make it a shit load more difficult for me -- it's counterproductive and I think counterproductive for anyone in the MRM to do so.

There are far better words to use that encourage support and describe what PZ et al., do and that don't immediately turn people away.

It's similar to how I feel about hate speech laws - I dislike them and would never ban speech but I think many of the people (not most, not all) that run afoul of them are often pretty despicable themselves. I support their speech because one day it may be my speech that is threatened.

Over at FARK which I just defended, people are given the option to ignore others, hide their comments, but by and large when people brag they have ignored someone they are laughed at and mocked for using such a lame, weak, cowardly move. And the ugly speech is useful to get out some ideas, but mainly to identify the true assholes, and to help people realize that troglodytes do exist. That's the opposite of speech banning policies. (And it never ends up like the PZ, SJW threads.)

"Nigger". You're not using it as a label. you're not calling anyone that word. You're discussing it as an example of a word you dislike, and prefer not to use. If you can't bear to type the entire word even in a discussion ABOUT words you don't like to use, just pick a different word, one you can use. It's silly enough the word has that much power over you that you cannot even type it in a discussion about the word itself. If you really cannot bring yourself to type it in such a context, use a different word.

Note: there is a difference, and a huge one, between choosing not to use a word or words, and being unable to discuss them. I know a lot of people who really don't use profanity as profanity. but, if you are discussing those words, and why they choose to use them or not, they are able to actually use the words in that context.

This is not just some wannabe klan thing. That particular word has a lot of history, almost all of it bad, and I completely understand not using it. But not being able to type the letters when discussing it? That leads us down the current stupid path. "You should never use the F-word" "Which one?" "The one that talks about gays" "Is that F1 or F2?" "Wait, I'm a tornado researcher, you can't appropriate F1-F5 to mean bad words. We need those for real work"

"Fuck"
"Fag"
"Bitch"
"Cunt"
"Nigger"

look around. Did anyone die or even break out in acne because I listed those words in this particular context? No. Nor shall they ever. There is a massive difference between calling someone a cunt or a nigger, and using those words in other contexts, and the contexts fucking matter. A lot.

We are literally getting to where we need numerical designators so we know which word we aren't supposed to use that we're talking about. Given the latest trends, I expect "Fat" to be F3 soon enough. This is an untenable situation. My wife really, really dislikes the word "gash". She admits that it's silly, but she dislikes it nonetheless. However, when talking about words she doesn't like, she actually says the fucking word. because otherwise, how the fuck is anyone supposed to know what she's talking about. "G-word"? Spelling it out?

The idea was well-intentioned, but it was never a good idea. It creates a situation where someone can alter someone else's, or a lot of someone elses' emotional state simply by saying a word. Why the fuck would anyone allow someone else that much power over them? But if we cannot even rationally discuss the word as a word, what the fuck?

[JackRayner]

I said the way I took it is that the quote was about the extreme obsessions observed in men. The "extreme" wasn't in the numbers killed, but how more men end up on the extreme ends of pathological behavior.

Jack, I would genuinely like to understand what she's saying as well as you do. So, thanks for all your efforts to clarify it for me.
With this goal in mind, I will grant you these premises 100%.

More men end up on the extreme ends of pathological behaviour and can be extremely obsessive.

Therefore there is no female Mozart, says Paglia.

Does that mean that Mozart could not have been a woman or that Mozart's genius is the result of male extreme obsessive behaviour (or both)?

You see, I've never come across such pronouncements before. I like Mozart and I would genuinely like to learn more about Mozart.

Thanks in advance.

I'm going to keep it short, because I think you can keep up: Do you think a "genius" level understanding of something eliminates the need for hard work? Do you think that maybe having an obsessive level of interest in this work could push one to work harder?

[welch]

It's a rather handy tool for running a network, especially now that HP and Cisco have gotten off that Java kick. But, just like driving a truck requires different skills than riding a skateboard, you have to learn how the iPad actually works to use it well. Just like you have to learn at least a minimum of how OS X/Windows/Linux work to use THOSE platforms well. You don't have to be a sysadmin by any means, but you have to learn *something*.

Will you please talk to the administrative higher-ups at my uni about this? I keep telling them that if they expect us to develop e-learning modules and self-tests that work well on an iPad or smartphone, they need to buy us iPads so that we can learn how they work and use them appropriately in the context of curriculum development.

Still waiting for that iPad, of course. They could buy a metric fucketonne of them, for the amount applied instead to annual salary for yet another useless deanlet. /rant

Sure. Help set it up, I'll happily explain it to them. I wrote a book on the subject of iPads in business uses, and academics seem to respect that. It seems silly to expect you to use a tool that you have no access to, and given Apple's discounts for volume edu purchases, they aren't going to break anyone's bank.

[Eucliwood]

Mind=blown. I used to really like PZ. I was a full supporter of him when he moved from SB because he was worried NatGeo would restrict content due to advertisers. How much has changed in a year, now that the network is beholden to Surlyramics. This, though...wow. He's like the good doctor turned mad scientist in comic books.[/quote]

Going back to what Ed said about $urly being an advertiser at FTB - I've never actually seen an ad on FTB for Amy's particular brand of novelty cowchips. I could have missed it, though - so I'm wondering: has anyone here seen a Surlyramics(tm) ad on FTB?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... I used to like PZ too, funny thing is I forgot his full name (where I learned of him they just called him P Myers, or Myers.) and relearned it with the negative things and then realized it was that dude I'd already learned about and passed out in the shock of conflicting impressions on the name and person PZ Myers. Now I can hardly remember what it is I'd known about him apart from the negative things. (Okay, I'm kidding about passing out)

My theory is that he was already like that, but just wouldn't voice it because he thought he'd be censored or "talked to."

[ReneeHendricks]

Yeah my beef with some of the various MRA movements as well is that they are really born out of Gender Feminism concepts, and as such tend to be flawed as well. That said, I do think that as a whole MRA-ism (weird word but whatever) is getting better, while Feminism is getting worse, unfortunately. But this is my memory of things going a way back, and things have changed a lot over the last year or two.

Predictions for the next year: It's the same prediction I make everywhere. There's going to be a bit of a spotlight...not a hugely bright one but it'll get people's attention...on these issues, and it's not going to be pretty. I think people are going to get increasingly fed up with the antics of all the various Social Justice Warrior groups (A+ is one of them, even if many of them don't even realize it), and there's going to be a bit of a shock as they realize that it's not just a small bunch of miscontented trolls, but it's that people who think that their brand of "social justice" is fail.

I personally don't like feminism because it blames the entire other gender for all its ills and refuses to admit that the same ills of a patriarchal society also negatively affect that other gender, but I look at MRA sites and they do the very same thing, refusing to acknowledge women's struggles and putting all the blame on the other gender. It's like looking at a mirror.

Well, you should look again, because the sites I visit, from Glennsacks.com, to Fathers & Families, to AVFM do not do this, at all.

Most acknowledge and respect many of the feminist movements for much progress in needed areas, explicitly acknowledging women's struggles. And I've never seen any of them put all the blame on the other gender. Put much of the blame on feminists? Yes. Put much of the blame on the opposite sex? No.

I will look again, as most of my run-ins have been Youtube, twitter and reddit. I still have a problem with the "mangina" thing, because it reminds me too much of "chill girl" and I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for not being "enough" this-or-that gender stereotype. A problem I also have with both feminsim and mra is the sometimes ignorance, but often times straight up bashing of transgendered and transexual people. Both sides say things like, "I'm going to call you a man if you have a penis," without acknowledging a person's right to their own identity. The radfems even go so far as saying they should ban transgirls from women's restrooms. Who the fuck is going to check between everyone's legs before they enter? wtf? I just don't get it. Live and let live, you know?

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

[Tkmlac]

Yeah, that's what I mean... on one side you have some feminists who are sexistwithit, and some MRAs who are sexistwithit, both criticizing extreme people from the other side... hypocritical.

What's important is that we've found a way to be superior to both. ;)
I had a feeling while I've been typing that that's what I would sound like, disliking both MRAs and Feminists, so I said it first, just so you know I'm not taking my holy opinion too seriously. Thanks for all the info, you guys.

I'm feeling all lovey dovey with you guys here, able to express and share our different opinions and worldviews and no one has been benned or shunned or kicked in the shins yet.

[papillon]

I'll just leave this here for posterity (oh, and for Pauly Myers to see when he comes vanity snooping)

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu11 ... 118ca8.jpg

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu11 ... f58487.jpg

[Eucliwood]

I forgot to mention that I had to relearn of him again because I clumsily forgot him a second time...the name sounded familiar, and it had a negative impression in my head. CX

[Eucliwood]

I didn't follow that "mangina" discussion, but what you quoted sounds as stupid as "gender traitor", "chill girl" or "sister punisher".
No offense intended.
Much...

The sentiment also appears as white supremacists calling their white opponents 'race traitors,' blacks calling other blacks 'uncle Toms' or 'oreos,' Jews calling other Jews 'Self-Hating Jews' for opposing Israeli policies, Gays calling Gays 'Uncle Marys,' Communists calling other Communists 'counter-revolutionaries'...
The (odd) implication is that, by virtue of your identity, you are pre-enrolled in some sort of army, against which you could then be committing 'treason.' One common denominator is that the speakers are vanguardists; they believe that their movement represents the true voice or soul of a large group of people. Because of this, any member of the group that doesn't agree can be accused of treason or inauthenticity, not simple disagreement.
In no case should these terms be taken seriously by anyone as long as they are given out in lieu of a rational response.

Oh my fucking non-existent god! Yes. It is totally the same thing. So, some feminist supporting chump who yells "why do you hate women?!" at the folk working to bring attention to real, existing issues that affect men, and that have either long gone ignored or have been aggravated by feminist policies [to include the feminists swooping in to get anyone even talking about it to shut the fuck up]. Some of us call this chump a mangina, and it's the same as all of the above, right? No. You are fucking stupid.

But here. Here's your chance. Spell the following out for me: Tell me how a white supremacists calling a white opponent a "race traitor" is the same as an MRA [who wants, for example, equality in treatment from the law] calling a feminism supporting man a "mangina". Fucking tell me that.

it's not, just like the A+ term "chill girl" isn't the same as the gender traitor, sister punisher crap.

[Eucliwood]

Yeah, that's what I mean... on one side you have some feminists who are sexistwithit, and some MRAs who are sexistwithit, both criticizing extreme people from the other side... hypocritical.

What's important is that we've found a way to be superior to both. ;)
I had a feeling while I've been typing that that's what I would sound like, disliking both MRAs and Feminists, so I said it first, just so you know I'm not taking my holy opinion too seriously. Thanks for all the info, you guys.

I'm feeling all lovey dovey with you guys here, able to express and share our different opinions and worldviews and no one has been benned or shunned or kicked in the shins yet.

Yeah MAAANNNGG... highfive to feeling superior! I'm going to start a favorite Slymepit quotes document. No more crying at upsetting things one reads on MRA or feminist places. woohoo.

[decius]

I'm going to keep it short, because I think you can keep up: Do you think a "genius" level understanding of something eliminates the need for hard work? Do you think that maybe having an obsessive level of interest in this work could push one to work harder?

No to the first question. The second one is loaded, so not going to answer it. But it really doesn't matter what I think.
I'm only after understanding what Paglia is saying or implying. You understand that and I don't. So, please explain.

[Tony Parsehole]

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DERM/how-do- ... /image.png

[Tkmlac]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

True. Insults only seem to affect people who think they are too precious to be insulted on the internet. Like Ophie's rant about identity theft on twitter. If someone made a mock account of me, I'd probably just laugh that I was renting that much space in their brain that they would go and do that.

I think part of my ducky back has been partly from prolonged exposure to the internet, but mostly that I was picked on from elementary school all the way through freshman year of high school, after which people generally calmed the fuck down about my weird dress, inability to do my hair and makeup and not being pretty or tall enough. Funny that those freshman that stopped attacking me look more mature than the FtBers who have sprung up their own special cliques and run around the proverbial schoolyard hazing people.

[Gumby]

That is interesting, because I have had both heart catheterization and open heart surgery, and I've been caught wondering how Ed, just a day or two after open heart surgery is able to spend this much time at a keyboard, or willing to spend any time in the drama at FtB.

Blogging at FfTB apparently gives the body miraculous regenerative powers. Between Greta and Ed, I believe something like 17 minutes were actually spent at the hospital.

[JackRayner]

Geez. "I have no idea what the men's rights movement is about, and I don't even care...but since I'm always hearing the baboons use MRA as an insult, and calling you all misogynist and rape apologists, then I must conclude that you're terrible at marketing if that's really not what y'all are about".

Really Decius?

And to the other fellow...."propaganda"? I share Wooly's sentiment, but I'll leave you with this and maybe you can figure it out all on your own;

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/ ... ivable.jpg

[somedumbguy]

Decius, et. al.,

I think you're right on many counts.

MRM has a terrible reputation, in some ways, deservedly so, and in other ways, because of how Feminists have been able to frame the MRM.

And I think the MRM advocates for men and if that advocacy can help other people, that would be great (for instance, raising DV issues about men, has shone light on DV patterns in females, which has helped lesbian DV problems, and the same is true for custody abuse. Raising the abuses for men, and shed light and predicted the similar abuses in lesbian couples.) But primarily, the focus is on men.

Being an MRA doesn't preclude one from being an egalitarian.

I would think though that many feminists cannot be considered egalitarians regardless of how much they claim feminism speaks for everyone -- that is clearly bullshit.

But the MRM is very diverse in some good ways and some bad ways.

Without knowing the complete history, I would say the Fathers Rights Movement spun off from the MRM because by focusing on Fathers Rights solely, it was easier to win the hearts and minds of people that could be supportive, could more easily disassociate FRA from the MRA baggage, and target the pressing needs of many men.

It's far easier for me to align myself as FRA than as MRA. A lot of that has to do with use of mangina, feminazi, demands women get back in the kitchen, etc.

It is actually because of the support of Woolly Bumblebee, GWW, and the many other women writing at AVFM that have enabled me to even consider aligning myself as an MRA, and still I am only brave enough to do that behind a pseudonym.

But I don't mind identifying as a Fathers Rights Activist.

[Gumby]

Mind=blown. I used to really like PZ. I was a full supporter of him when he moved from SB because he was worried NatGeo would restrict content due to advertisers. How much has changed in a year, now that the network is beholden to Surlyramics. This, though...wow. He's like the good doctor turned mad scientist in comic books.

Going back to what Ed said about $urly being an advertiser at FTB - I've never actually seen an ad on FTB for Amy's particular brand of novelty cowchips. I could have missed it, though - so I'm wondering: has anyone here seen a Surlyramics(tm) ad on FTB?

I have Adblock Plus, so no.

[JackRayner]

I'm going to keep it short, because I think you can keep up: Do you think a "genius" level understanding of something eliminates the need for hard work? Do you think that maybe having an obsessive level of interest in this work could push one to work harder?

No to the first question. The second one is loaded, so not going to answer it. But it really doesn't matter what I think.
I'm only after understanding what Paglia is saying or implying. You understand that and I don't. So, please explain.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... /rofl2.gif

Jezzuz H. Fucking Christ. I'm trying to lead you to the answer by asking you questions. If you happen to end up at the same spot that I'm in by answering these questions, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. And especially not when you wanted to know what my thought on that quote was. :lol:

[Eucliwood]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

True. Insults only seem to affect people who think they are too precious to be insulted on the internet. Like Ophie's rant about identity theft on twitter. If someone made a mock account of me, I'd probably just laugh that I was renting that much space in their brain that they would go and do that.

I think part of my ducky back has been partly from prolonged exposure to the internet, but mostly that I was picked on from elementary school all the way through freshman year of high school, after which people generally calmed the fuck down about my weird dress, inability to do my hair and makeup and not being pretty or tall enough. Funny that those freshman that stopped attacking me look more mature than the FtBers who have sprung up their own special cliques and run around the proverbial schoolyard hazing people.

Yeah, they are complete drama queens and don't care how ridiculous and whiny and psycho they look. They've just got no shame. Maybe they think acting like will make the people they're bitching about feel shame?

[ikonografer]

"Ikonographer can enjoy this, can't he? I mean all those vowel-endy languages like Spanish, Portugeuse and Italian are the same, right?"

uh....i'm learning to understand the trogs here, no time for Portuguese. and uh....it's "Portuguese", not uh...whatever it was that u typed. just sayin', if ur gonna live in an English speaking country....you know....knowing the language, uh....yeah, that's a good thing. 8-) :snooty:

If you assume sarcasm, you tend to do better :-P

i was assuming sarcasm.

[Eucliwood]

"Ikonographer can enjoy this, can't he? I mean all those vowel-endy languages like Spanish, Portugeuse and Italian are the same, right?"

uh....i'm learning to understand the trogs here, no time for Portuguese. and uh....it's "Portuguese", not uh...whatever it was that u typed. just sayin', if ur gonna live in an English speaking country....you know....knowing the language, uh....yeah, that's a good thing. 8-) :snooty:

If you assume sarcasm, you tend to do better :-P

i was assuming sarcasm.

IKONOGRAFER. IS THAT YOU FROM THE CREIGHT YOUTUBE VIDEO? WHATS UP? CAN I HAVE AN AUTOGRAPH OR MAYBE AN EMAIL OF EXCHANGE?

[Altair]

But one could be an egalitarian that dips ones hand in the MRM a variety of movements all at once.

I like that part, I think that's what I would use to define myself right now.

I want equality for everyone, and I would like to fight/campaign/whatever in the name of anyone who's being oppressed. But in my view, women already have a large support network and a lot of attention focused on their issues, while almost none is being focused on men's.

That's why I identify as an MRA while also being an egalitarian. But I do care about real problems women face, hell, real problems anyone faces.

I kind of reluctantly agree that trying to sell the MRM as a movement that fights for everyone faces the same problems feminism faces when it tries to sell the same idea, the fact that you have the name of one gender right there on your name.

[ReneeHendricks]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

True. Insults only seem to affect people who think they are too precious to be insulted on the internet. Like Ophie's rant about identity theft on twitter. If someone made a mock account of me, I'd probably just laugh that I was renting that much space in their brain that they would go and do that.

I think part of my ducky back has been partly from prolonged exposure to the internet, but mostly that I was picked on from elementary school all the way through freshman year of high school, after which people generally calmed the fuck down about my weird dress, inability to do my hair and makeup and not being pretty or tall enough. Funny that those freshman that stopped attacking me look more mature than the FtBers who have sprung up their own special cliques and run around the proverbial schoolyard hazing people.

Mine comes from growing up with a noticeable cleft lip scar ("Runny" was my nickname for a while) and I was rather bookish/shy. It got marginally better in high school. The thing is, some of us take this and make ourselves stronger while others take it with them their entire lives and act like wounded birds. I think that might be part of Ophie's issue (speculation).

[JackRayner]

Geez. "I have no idea what the men's rights movement is about, and I don't even care...but since I'm always hearing the baboons use MRA as an insult, and calling you all misogynist and rape apologists, then I must conclude that you're terrible at marketing if that's really not what y'all are about".

Really Decius?

And to the other fellow...."propaganda"? I share Wooly's sentiment, but I'll leave you with this and maybe you can figure it out all on your own;

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/ ... ivable.jpg

Wait, that "other fellow" was also Decius. You're on a roll here, man! http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... /rofl2.gif

[Eucliwood]

But one could be an egalitarian that dips ones hand in the MRM a variety of movements all at once.

I like that part, I think that's what I would use to define myself right now.

I want equality for everyone, and I would like to fight/campaign/whatever in the name of anyone who's being oppressed. But in my view, women already have a large support network and a lot of attention focused on their issues, while almost none is being focused on men's.

That's why I identify as an MRA while also being an egalitarian. But I do care about real problems women face, hell, real problems anyone faces.

I kind of reluctantly agree that trying to sell the MRM as a movement that fights for everyone faces the same problems feminism faces when it tries to sell the same idea, the fact that you have the name of one gender right there on your name.

yesss.. that's what I've tried to tell a friend who stereotypes MRAs mercilessly.

[Dilurk]

Yeah, that's what I mean... on one side you have some feminists who are sexistwithit, and some MRAs who are sexistwithit, both criticizing extreme people from the other side... hypocritical.

IRC sucks.

[Eucliwood]

Yeah, that's what I mean... on one side you have some feminists who are sexistwithit, and some MRAs who are sexistwithit, both criticizing extreme people from the other side... hypocritical.

IRC sucks.

How does IRC itself suck? What about it sucks? Is there a network you went to that always netsplit?

I'm open to using any sort of chat thing really. Even a tinychat but I dont think I'd get on cam for privacy.

[ReneeHendricks]

FTR, I'm someone who identifies as an MRA and an egalitarian. However, I refuse to align myself with feminism simply because of what they stand for these days. To be perfectly honest, the whole label thing seems silly to me (I tried to list out all the labels that would apply to me but I ran out of room on my Twitter bio). But it seems it's easier for people to understand if you give them some labels to research.

[decius]

Jezzuz H. Fucking Christ. I'm trying to lead you to the answer by asking you questions. If you happen to end up at the same spot that I'm in by answering these questions, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. And especially not when you wanted to know what my thought on that quote was. :lol:

Look Jack, I've asked you a simple question. I don't want questions leading me to an answer in return. Especially if they presuppose poorly defined and ambiguous concepts.

Can you answer my question with a linear answer, please?

[BarnOwl]

Sure. Help set it up, I'll happily explain it to them. I wrote a book on the subject of iPads in business uses, and academics seem to respect that. It seems silly to expect you to use a tool that you have no access to, and given Apple's discounts for volume edu purchases, they aren't going to break anyone's bank.

I'll take a look at your book - it sounds as if it will support my plea for iPads. Universities become more like businesses every day.

For listening to audiobooks and music, for reading e-books, and for dinking around on the interwebz or checking e-mail when traveling, I bought a Kindle Fire. Much cheaper than an iPad. For doing Real Worke when I'm not in my office or lab, I bought a MacBook Air.

[Tkmlac]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

True. Insults only seem to affect people who think they are too precious to be insulted on the internet. Like Ophie's rant about identity theft on twitter. If someone made a mock account of me, I'd probably just laugh that I was renting that much space in their brain that they would go and do that.

I think part of my ducky back has been partly from prolonged exposure to the internet, but mostly that I was picked on from elementary school all the way through freshman year of high school, after which people generally calmed the fuck down about my weird dress, inability to do my hair and makeup and not being pretty or tall enough. Funny that those freshman that stopped attacking me look more mature than the FtBers who have sprung up their own special cliques and run around the proverbial schoolyard hazing people.

Mine comes from growing up with a noticeable cleft lip scar ("Runny" was my nickname for a while) and I was rather bookish/shy. It got marginally better in high school. The thing is, some of us take this and make ourselves stronger while others take it with them their entire lives and act like wounded birds. I think that might be part of Ophie's issue (speculation).

Funny, I speculated the opposite, that Ophie, Watson, Jen, Zvan, etc, actually weren't picked on. They might not have been exactly popular, they might not even have indulged in the bullying at their school, but I don't think they actually got it like I got it, or like you probably got it. I think Greta probably got it, because she seems like the least harmful of them all, but got wrapped up in the "noble cause" or social justice. Everybody at my school knew my name. And they yelled versions of it in my ear while I walked down the halls with a book in my face, ignoring them. I was followed multiple times after school and physically harassed. These little bitches whining about shirts and fake jewelry and twitter accounts make me want to say, "Psh, crybaby."

[JackRayner]

You're right, I don't know much and don't particularly care.

I agree with the first two statements, but the third is kind of belied by your posting.

Since we have been treated to a large deal of MRA propaganda, lately, forgive me for being mildly critical in return. Should I read from the "movement's" breviary, instead?

Propaganda? Where was the propaganda?

Ugh, I am done with this discussion. Moving on...

I wasn't referring specifically to you. I guess you haven't been around much, if you haven't seen the propaganda and the apologetics. If you can't recognise it as such, that's another matter.

I used to ignore this shit, but I can see why Astro, James, and Andrew go off sometimes. This claim is pretty much bullshit.

Feel free to show otherwise.

[ReneeHendricks]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

True. Insults only seem to affect people who think they are too precious to be insulted on the internet. Like Ophie's rant about identity theft on twitter. If someone made a mock account of me, I'd probably just laugh that I was renting that much space in their brain that they would go and do that.

I think part of my ducky back has been partly from prolonged exposure to the internet, but mostly that I was picked on from elementary school all the way through freshman year of high school, after which people generally calmed the fuck down about my weird dress, inability to do my hair and makeup and not being pretty or tall enough. Funny that those freshman that stopped attacking me look more mature than the FtBers who have sprung up their own special cliques and run around the proverbial schoolyard hazing people.

Mine comes from growing up with a noticeable cleft lip scar ("Runny" was my nickname for a while) and I was rather bookish/shy. It got marginally better in high school. The thing is, some of us take this and make ourselves stronger while others take it with them their entire lives and act like wounded birds. I think that might be part of Ophie's issue (speculation).

Funny, I speculated the opposite, that Ophie, Watson, Jen, Zvan, etc, actually weren't picked on. They might not have been exactly popular, they might not even have indulged in the bullying at their school, but I don't think they actually got it like I got it, or like you probably got it. I think Greta probably got it, because she seems like the least harmful of them all, but got wrapped up in the "noble cause" or social justice. Everybody at my school knew my name. And they yelled versions of it in my ear while I walked down the halls with a book in my face, ignoring them. I was followed multiple times after school and physically harassed. These little bitches whining about shirts and fake jewelry and twitter accounts make me want to say, "Psh, crybaby."

Last line emphasized! Here, here sister!

[Eucliwood]

FTR, I'm someone who identifies as an MRA and an egalitarian. However, I refuse to align myself with feminism simply because of what they stand for these days. To be perfectly honest, the whole label thing seems silly to me (I tried to list out all the labels that would apply to me but I ran out of room on my Twitter bio). But it seems it's easier for people to understand if you give them some labels to research.

Yeah, I'm more hesitant to call myself a feminist with the recent wave... I didn't know there was a label for MRAs til recently, so before I just said I was for men's rights.

[Eucliwood]

Feminist is like the new No Homo. "I'm not a feminist, but ____" to avoid comments asking if someone is a... a... FEMINIST. CX. hilarious.

[somedumbguy]

Yeah my beef with some of the various MRA movements as well is that they are really born out of Gender Feminism concepts, and as such tend to be flawed as well. That said, I do think that as a whole MRA-ism (weird word but whatever) is getting better, while Feminism is getting worse, unfortunately. But this is my memory of things going a way back, and things have changed a lot over the last year or two.

Predictions for the next year: It's the same prediction I make everywhere. There's going to be a bit of a spotlight...not a hugely bright one but it'll get people's attention...on these issues, and it's not going to be pretty. I think people are going to get increasingly fed up with the antics of all the various Social Justice Warrior groups (A+ is one of them, even if many of them don't even realize it), and there's going to be a bit of a shock as they realize that it's not just a small bunch of miscontented trolls, but it's that people who think that their brand of "social justice" is fail.

I personally don't like feminism because it blames the entire other gender for all its ills and refuses to admit that the same ills of a patriarchal society also negatively affect that other gender, but I look at MRA sites and they do the very same thing, refusing to acknowledge women's struggles and putting all the blame on the other gender. It's like looking at a mirror.

Well, you should look again, because the sites I visit, from Glennsacks.com, to Fathers & Families, to AVFM do not do this, at all.

Most acknowledge and respect many of the feminist movements for much progress in needed areas, explicitly acknowledging women's struggles. And I've never seen any of them put all the blame on the other gender. Put much of the blame on feminists? Yes. Put much of the blame on the opposite sex? No.

I will look again, as most of my run-ins have been Youtube, twitter and reddit. I still have a problem with the "mangina" thing, because it reminds me too much of "chill girl" and I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for not being "enough" this-or-that gender stereotype. A problem I also have with both feminsim and mra is the sometimes ignorance, but often times straight up bashing of transgendered and transexual people. Both sides say things like, "I'm going to call you a man if you have a penis," without acknowledging a person's right to their own identity. The radfems even go so far as saying they should ban transgirls from women's restrooms. Who the fuck is going to check between everyone's legs before they enter? wtf? I just don't get it. Live and let live, you know?

Well it's clear I have a problem with the word mangina, but I am sympathetic to the concept. I am not sure of what a chill girl is, so I can't give you a great differentiation of why one is okay and one is not.

From Zvan herself "How do you know whether you’re a chill girl? Simple. Is your reaction to complaints from other women of harassment and discrimination based on gender to turn to the guys and say, “Nah, I’m fine. It’s all cool”? Then you’re a chill girl."

I get the impression that chill girl is speech policing, and so is mangina, but the people commonly called manginas, Schwyzer, Barry Deutsch, Tom Matlack, these guys are all clearly actively working to deny men rights and to claim that Feminism speaks for men. A chill girl, from the Stephanie Zvan definition, is merely a woman that disagrees with feminism accusations of discrimination. The guys I mention go far beyond disagreeing with mens rights.

Regarding gay and transgendered issues, a recent survey at /r/mensrights showed a far greater percentage of gay and transgendered individuals as members of /r/mensrights than in the rest of reddit. Same thing at AVFM - lots of people there identify along the GLBTQ spectrum.

Regardless, there are some interesting issues there -- the culture as a whole is trying to catch up to modern times, and the shifting goalposts of what science tells us.

[Tkmlac]

By the way, guys, if you don't know how to pronounce my username, it's tɪkəmlæk.

Hope that clears it up.

[Eucliwood]

Yeah...that really helped.

As for your signature, did those fuckers seriously tell you that you're just here for male attention?! This isn't even a man dominant thing.

[AchronTimeless]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

Reminds me of a very funny thing I witnessed while I was at college in Kentucky. (warning, for anyone who twitches at anything non-PC, avert your eyes because I'm going to write it as it happened)

One of my friends, who just happened to be the only black person in the group at that moment, was with a few of my other friends and myself walking back to campus from a nearby coffee shop. Well, it also happens that there was a hole in the wall bar about half a block away from the coffee shop and we'd chosen a route that passed it. As we walked past, a very drunk redneck walked/stumbed out of the bar, beer still in hand and started trying to yell at us. Considering the drunken slur and the rather extreme "southern drawl" the whole effect was comical, but how my friend handled it made it gold.

Since the rest of us were just generally too shocked to respond, I shall refer to each person as BF (black friend) and RN (redneck).

RN: what do you think you're doing boy?
*we ignore him*
RN: I said, what do you think you're doing boy, walking around with with white folk?

BF: I'm not really understanding the question.

RN: Well what do you think you're doing?

BF: No, I heard you, but the question doesn't make sense. What are you trying to ask me?

RN: Yer a filthy nigger!

BF: A what?

RN: That's right, a nigger.. what you gonna do about it?

BF: What does that mean?

RN: Huh?

BF: That word, what was it? Noggor? What does it mean?

RN: Uhh.. well you're a nigger!

BF: Right, I heard you, but what does it mean? I've never heard it before.

At this point, the poor drunk had such a confused look on his face. He stammered a bit, threw the bottle on the ground, and stumbled back into the bar.

That moment taught me a valuable lesson about name-calling and the power of words. As well as making for a damn good story he kept retelling for years.

[Tkmlac]

@somedumbguy "Regarding gay and transgendered issues, a recent survey at /r/mensrights showed a far greater percentage of gay and transgendered individuals as members of /r/mensrights than in the rest of reddit. Same thing at AVFM - lots of people there identify along the GLBTQ spectrum."

That's excellent news. I'll have to look into that. Do you have a link for more info on the survey? I'd like to see more. Maybe I don't know enough about MRA's.

[somedumbguy]

Welch, I think you are 99.5% right about the need to write nigger in a discussion about words.

[decius]

I used to ignore this shit, but I can see why Astro, James, and Andrew go off sometimes. This claim is pretty much bullshit.

Feel free to show otherwise.

To show what, that the MRAs' do propaganda, here? And you ask that in a post that mentions ASTRO? ROTFL

[Eucliwood]

I'm of the type who feels that words/phrases only have power if you let them. I've been called a "chill girl", a "gender traitor", a bitch, and many others. Water off a duck's back :)

Reminds me of a very funny thing I witnessed while I was at college in Kentucky. (warning, for anyone who twitches at anything non-PC, avert your eyes because I'm going to write it as it happened)

One of my friends, who just happened to be the only black person in the group at that moment, was with a few of my other friends and myself walking back to campus from a nearby coffee shop. Well, it also happens that there was a hole in the wall bar about half a block away from the coffee shop and we'd chosen a route that passed it. As we walked past, a very drunk redneck walked/stumbed out of the bar, beer still in hand and started trying to yell at us. Considering the drunken slur and the rather extreme "southern drawl" the whole effect was comical, but how my friend handled it made it gold.

Since the rest of us were just generally too shocked to respond, I shall refer to each person as BF (black friend) and RN (redneck).

RN: what do you think you're doing boy?
*we ignore him*
RN: I said, what do you think you're doing boy, walking around with with white folk?

BF: I'm not really understanding the question.

RN: Well what do you think you're doing?

BF: No, I heard you, but the question doesn't make sense. What are you trying to ask me?

RN: Yer a filthy nigger!

BF: A what?

RN: That's right, a nigger.. what you gonna do about it?

BF: What does that mean?

RN: Huh?

BF: That word, what was it? Noggor? What does it mean?

RN: Uhh.. well you're a nigger!

BF: Right, I heard you, but what does it mean? I've never heard it before.

At this point, the poor drunk had such a confused look on his face. He stammered a bit, threw the bottle on the ground, and stumbled back into the bar.

That moment taught me a valuable lesson about name-calling and the power of words. As well as making for a damn good story he kept retelling for years.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.... gooooolllddd...
Reminds me of the video where the sober old white lady was bitching about black kids and white kids playing (there were kids skateboarding nearby)

[Scented Nectar]

GUYS. THERE'S LIKE SO MANY POSTS HERE A DAY... ANYONE WANT TO SET UP AN IRC (OR SOME OTHER SORT OF CHAT THING) WE CAN ALSO TALK AT? SO MANY POSTS ARE SKIPPED. AND IRC IS FUN. AND YOU DONT HAVE TO REGISTER THE CHANNEL.

You're new here. Yes, there are many posts. We like them. If you wish to voice chat, about once or twice a week there's an open invitation to everyone here to join podcasts and skype conversations. I doubt anyone here wants to reduce the post numbers here and play with old IRCs. Get to know us before suggesting major changes. You may have nearly a hundred posts, but you're still the new guy, the one who showed up only yesterday.

[welch]

Sure. Help set it up, I'll happily explain it to them. I wrote a book on the subject of iPads in business uses, and academics seem to respect that. It seems silly to expect you to use a tool that you have no access to, and given Apple's discounts for volume edu purchases, they aren't going to break anyone's bank.

I'll take a look at your book - it sounds as if it will support my plea for iPads. Universities become more like businesses every day.

For listening to audiobooks and music, for reading e-books, and for dinking around on the interwebz or checking e-mail when traveling, I bought a Kindle Fire. Much cheaper than an iPad. For doing Real Worke when I'm not in my office or lab, I bought a MacBook Air.

Well, i did work for MIT's central IS for a few years, and was the IT manager for the MIT cops before that. I'm at least somewhat familiar with higher ed, and in a lot of ways, it's a business. A strange one, but a business, and a lot of the principles I talk about in the book apply in that domain as well.

In spite of the titling of the book, (not really my choice), it's not a hands-on guide in the "step 1, step 2" way. It's really designed to give someone the information they need to manage iOS devices in their situation in the best way for them. I also tried to avoid making it any drier than necessary. trivia bit: it's the first technical book from Peachpit with the word "picayune" in it.

[Gumby]

Damn, I love the "ignore poster" feature. I rarely use it, but occasionally it's invaluable to cut down on obnoxious babblers.

:whistle:

[Eucliwood]

GUYS. THERE'S LIKE SO MANY POSTS HERE A DAY... ANYONE WANT TO SET UP AN IRC (OR SOME OTHER SORT OF CHAT THING) WE CAN ALSO TALK AT? SO MANY POSTS ARE SKIPPED. AND IRC IS FUN. AND YOU DONT HAVE TO REGISTER THE CHANNEL.

You're new here. Yes, there are many posts. We like them. If you wish to voice chat, about once or twice a week there's an open invitation to everyone here to join podcasts and skype conversations. I doubt anyone here wants to reduce the post numbers here and play with old IRCs. Get to know us before suggesting major changes. You may have nearly a hundred posts, but you're still the new guy, the one who showed up only yesterday.

I'm pretty sure I was here before yesterday... but I'll check because for some reason my sense of time is screwed up on the internet. I don't want to voice chat, I just thought it would be cool to chat to make it even more personal... in *order* to get to know you guys better. I also don't think the fact that I don't know you guys has to do with suggesting any "major changes" (changes? Where?) I don't think it reduces the number of posts to have a chat set up too, tbh. Not in my experience with another forum that has a chat.

[Eucliwood]

Damn, I love the "ignore poster" feature. I rarely use it, but occasionally it's invaluable to cut down on obnoxious babblers.

:whistle:

Oh shit, is that for me? Can someone ask him? I always do that when I get to a forum with tons of threads I've never read, although in this part, it'd be hard to do that because everything is in one thread. Oh well.

[Eucliwood]

Having an edit button would help. I'd also like to note that since so many posts happen at once multiple posts would happen a lot if you dont ignore a lot of posts and fail to reply to them.

[Eucliwood]

Okay, so I checked back. I joined on Christmas day, early in the morning... so sort of on Christmas Eve.

[Tkmlac]

Damn, I love the "ignore poster" feature. I rarely use it, but occasionally it's invaluable to cut down on obnoxious babblers.

:whistle:

That's a thing? I didn't know.

[Scented Nectar]

Damn, I love the "ignore poster" feature. I rarely use it, but occasionally it's invaluable to cut down on obnoxious babblers.

:whistle:

I'm strongly considering it myself, which is something I've never done.

[codelette]

Feminist is like the new No Homo. "I'm not a feminist, but ____" to avoid comments asking if someone is a... a... FEMINIST. CX. hilarious.

For me is more along the lines of:
I'm not a feminist, because is a movement to and for white upper-middle and middle class women (i.e. First World Problem sufferers).
Historically, culturally and personally I cannot identify with most (if not any) of the supposed achievements of the "sisterhood" on behalf of all vagina-owners.

[Eucliwood]

Nowadays when someone ignores me (not that it happens often..most recent are religious folk) I have to ignore them too so that I don't get frustrated that I can't reply to anything they are saying.

[somedumbguy]

@somedumbguy "Regarding gay and transgendered issues, a recent survey at /r/mensrights showed a far greater percentage of gay and transgendered individuals as members of /r/mensrights than in the rest of reddit. Same thing at AVFM - lots of people there identify along the GLBTQ spectrum."

That's excellent news. I'll have to look into that. Do you have a link for more info on the survey? I'd like to see more. Maybe I don't know enough about MRA's.

So I can't find the specific to mens rights survey that was done, but http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comm ... urvey_and/ goes to what I think was a reddit as a whole survey, though it seems odd as well, with only 300 respondents and only 7 of them identifying as gender queer. But of that 7, 28% of them (2 that is) identify as MRA.

I try to avoid reddit these days, too much of a time suck, but if you go to /r/mensrights and ask they can probably point you to more.

My experience at /r/mensrights and at AVFM is there is very little homophobia or transphobia expressed there. Yes, there is some, just as in all forums, but for the most part they are friendly and supportive of GLBTQ and there are many people there that identify as such.

Just as Slymepitters are not the misogynists that PZ makes us out to be and the truth is just the opposite.

[JackRayner]

Jezzuz H. Fucking Christ. I'm trying to lead you to the answer by asking you questions. If you happen to end up at the same spot that I'm in by answering these questions, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. And especially not when you wanted to know what my thought on that quote was. :lol:

Look Jack, I've asked you a simple question. I don't want questions leading me to an answer in return. Especially if they presuppose poorly defined and ambiguous concepts.

Can you answer my question with a linear answer, please?

[Party pooper! :cry: ]

The intelligence and obsessiveness are not one in the same, but together they can lead to greatness. That's what I was trying to lead you to with my questions. High intelligence is another extreme that men are more likely to fall on than women. On the other side of the coin is mental retardation, because there are also more men that end up on that side of intelligence when compared to women, but I don't know of any famous males with obsessive behavior that society deemed harmful that were also retarded, and it don't think it would have made as fun a quote.

[Gumby]

Damn, I love the "ignore poster" feature. I rarely use it, but occasionally it's invaluable to cut down on obnoxious babblers.

:whistle:

That's a thing? I didn't know.

Go to your user control panel and look for "friends and foes".

[codelette]

PS. I should have written NAVEL-GAZING white upper-middle and middle class women. I forgot about defining that is just a movement for whinny women that happen to conform a certain demographic.