If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

LMU wrote:

JackRayner wrote:

LMU wrote:That father's post actually reminded me of my own parents. I was too young to remember how it was when I was born, but when my younger sibling was growing up my mother had PPD and my father basically took care of all of us. When she went back to work her hours were long and she'd sleep when she got home so my father basically raised us during that period.

Wow. So, you mean there are instances in which someone stating "In short I do just about everything." isn't a smug asshole or a clueless retard? How wild. Trophy almost had me convinced for a minute there...

I don't mean to say that she didn't do anything, just that my father did far more. Also I think she had reason for being that way, but my father did pick up the slack. I don't know how appreciative she was of him, that's not really my business, but she did at one point accuse him of molesting us (he didn't) which was terrifying (I think it was a case of misplaced anger. She was angry at someone else for something else, but didn't realize it and so invented a reason to explain the anger she was feeling.)

Noted. Just using your example to bust Trophy's balls [gonads?] a bit.

AndrewV69 wrote:

ERV wrote: 'Parenting' is nothing like you see on TV/movies/advertising, and I do not blame anyone for their disillusionment. But I dont think it has anything to do with gender. Fatherhood and Motherhood get whitewashed, and I know men and women who (before kids) idealize the situation.

That Reddit post could be a spark to start a frank, interesting discussion about parenting, reality vs pop media, and the effects when the two worlds collide. Too bad Myers is more interested in bitching than having an interesting discussion.

If you are around small children when you are growing up and help with them, you have no illusions. I have a sister-in-law who has over ten children. The older ones help with the younger ones, and I have yet to just drop in unannounced and find the house in a mess. Her eldest boy just got married to a girl with a similar background (large mennonite household) and you can bet your last dollar they both have the experience and the knowledge to cope.

Hear, hear! I've been an uncle since I was 12 years old. That first nephew is going to be turning 14 soon, and I've got 7 others. (And that's not even counting all of the kids that my 3 half-siblings, from my father's first marriage, all have on their end. I've never met any of those in person though...) So I've been helping to take care of kids for a while now. In my adulthood I have also helped some of the single mother's I've dated. I think I'd do alright with some imps of my own, but I really don't want any.

One of the moms I know is convinced that I don't like kids. (One time I was driving past a school bus stop with a bunch of kids, and there were some vultures picking through garbage bags on the other side of the road, and I asked her "Wouldn't it be hilarious if one of those vultures snatched a kid away?" Hahaha.) She might be right, but she knows I'm pretty level headed about it, or else she wouldn't have hired me to babysit like she did. The only real thing that grates me about kids is that they don't seem so great at recognizing boundaries from subtle, non-verbal cues, and they're the type of things that I really hate having to spell out...

SPACKlick wrote:To find I am now blocked from commenting on PZ's blog. I don't think I've commented on Pharyngula before. So what gives?

Don't worry, a similar thing happened to me at the beginning of the elevatorgate saga and I also had never posted on pharyngula, or anywhere else in the atheist blogosphere (and if the original ERV slimepit thread was up at that time, I wasn't aware of it yet). Although to be fair I still don't know if I'm 'officially' banned or if my comments were just not being allowed to pass through moderation. Meh, after such a welcome, I have no real interest in going back there to find out one way or the other.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

She's right about the ellipsis tho.

...and here's the big announcement I have been waiting to release... I am the co-chair of the Pennsylvania state chapter of the Secular Coalition for America alongside Brian Fields:

http://secular.org/news/secular-coaliti ... nch-sunday

Philip of Tealand wrote:

sacha wrote:

TedDahlberg wrote:

Philip of Tealand wrote:Coffee? Ted, don't do that

Tea, maybe, if you are lucky!

Now I'm wondering… if coffee is sex, what is tea?

anal

Pouring Tea into your arse isn't something I'd recommend - everyone to their own of course, I'd be the last person to comment on what floats your sexual boat - I'd just be worried about the scalding!

I was referring to my addiction to tea...

justinvacula wrote:...and here's the big announcement I have been waiting to release... I am the co-chair of the Pennsylvania state chapter of the Secular Coalition for America alongside Brian Fields:

http://secular.org/news/secular-coaliti ... nch-sunday

Congratulations.

As a suggestion or “feature request”, you might want to consider trying to promote the SCA into supporting the ratification of UN Charter on the Rights of the Child – which the US along with Somalia among all the nations in the UN has yet to do in spite of it being released some 15 years ago.

But that Charter would guarantee that children also have the right to a freedom of conscience, thought and religion which might curtail some of the more egregious abuses of parental indoctrination in matters of religion.

If you get a chance you might also want to try reading this paper – an Amnesty International lecture – by a British psychologist, Nicholas Humphrey, who argues that children “have a right not to have their minds addled by nonsense”, notably that imparted through that religious indoctrination.

justinvacula wrote:...and here's the big announcement I have been waiting to release... I am the co-chair of the Pennsylvania state chapter of the Secular Coalition for America alongside Brian Fields:

http://secular.org/news/secular-coaliti ... nch-sunday

Nice one! Congrats!

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

She might want to review her joke in light of the Catechism according to the high priests and priestesses over at A†, notably this one on “Fat Shaming”:

Lovely wrote: Fat hate, and trying to shame people about their bodies for any reason is a big red flag for me. A big red flag with strobe lights.

What's the ethical position on fat shaming? Don't try to concern troll people about their bodies. ....

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

Is Watson fat? I've never met her or seen her in person. :orcs-buttshake:

No worries JR :)

Grats to J"F"V! :D

Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

Guest wrote:

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

Is Watson fat? I've never met her or seen her in person. :orcs-buttshake:

http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 1153#p1153
scroll down the photo.

Steersman wrote:

justinvacula wrote:...and here's the big announcement I have been waiting to release... I am the co-chair of the Pennsylvania state chapter of the Secular Coalition for America alongside Brian Fields:

http://secular.org/news/secular-coaliti ... nch-sunday

Congratulations.

As a suggestion or “feature request”, you might want to consider trying to promote the SCA into supporting the ratification of UN Charter on the Rights of the Child – which the US along with Somalia among all the nations in the UN has yet to do in spite of it being released some 15 years ago.

But that Charter would guarantee that children also have the right to a freedom of conscience, thought and religion which might curtail some of the more egregious abuses of parental indoctrination in matters of religion.

If you get a chance you might also want to try reading this paper – an Amnesty International lecture – by a British psychologist, Nicholas Humphrey, who argues that children “have a right not to have their minds addled by nonsense”, notably that imparted through that religious indoctrination.

If you point out that it also provides a wonderful framework for the state to mediate and mandate programs for effective human resource management.

Stuff like mandatory state approved/funded child care programs. *shrug* I do not blame any country for not signing up.

You really have to be careful what you ask for. You may get it.

sacha wrote:

Guest wrote:

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

Is Watson fat? I've never met her or seen her in person. :orcs-buttshake:

http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 1153#p1153
scroll down the photo.

Note: I dont actually care, part amillionty of "A† can dish it not take it", looks and gender-based-insults are off the table except when they are standing on the table, etc.

LMU wrote:Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

I now only buy Dilmah leaf tea.
For many reasons, not just that it is the best tasting tea that I can buy, it is also: ethically sourced, single-region family-owned & run.
Part of your the profits go toward schooling the children of the pickers, and so-on.

Excellent news, Justin!

Keep up the good work. It's one in the eye for the Baboons.

Guest wrote:

ERV wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! A fat joke AND a sexist joke!

Last person on Earth who should be making fun of others 'stretched' waistlines and sagging sacks of sexualized skin: Twatson.

Is Watson fat? I've never met her or seen her in person. :orcs-buttshake:

I've gotten that impression from some of the vids that I've seen of her. I suspect that her "vegetarianism" amounts to substituting candy and ice cream for meat.

Michael K Gray wrote:

LMU wrote:Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

I now only buy Dilmah leaf tea.
For many reasons, not just that it is the best tasting tea that I can buy, it is also: ethically sourced, single-region family-owned & run.
Part of your the profits go toward schooling the children of the pickers, and so-on.

My favorite teas are:

black - Lapsang Sou Chong (a bit of an acquired taste though)

green - Matcha

and, of course, Oolong betwixt.

LMU wrote:Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

Lapsang Souchong is my absolute favourite. It's a smokey, salty, black tea. Tastes awesome. Only downside is that it can have a diuretic effect.

I just had to have some after reading about it in James Michener's Hawaii when I was 15.

LMU wrote:No worries JR :)

Grats to J"F"V! :D

Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

Tetley tea or PG Tips, in tea-bags. With a bit of milk and no sugar. If you're american, make sure you actually wait until the kettle fucking boils. That means until it switches itself off.

Breaking News.
Dublin police have made a photo-fit of Elevator-Guy from an anonymous eye-witless who is under protection of the Irish MRA.
http://www.michaelgray.com.au/Resources/EgPhotoFit.png

Builders' tea for me. Plenty of tannin and milk to match. And two sugars. The best cups of tea I've ever had were in greasy spoon caffs. Never been able to reproduce this at home. Can't be doing with poncy teas—I've tried 'em but they just don't do it for me. However, I can manage Chinese/Japanese teas in the right contexts, which probably means actually being in China or Japan. A bit like retsina is fine in Greece, but doesn't travel. Bizarrely I really used to like chilled macha coffee (Starbucks brand no less) whilst in Tokyo. Probably doesn't travel either, but I'm not sure you can get this anywhere else.

Thanks tea drinkers! :)

I think I tried lapsang sou chong once and didnt like it, but I may give it another go and I'll see if I can find the others.

I've mostly been drinking what my partner prefers which is usually a rooibos tea or raspberry quince black tea.

Right now I have an old fashioned kettle that heats on a range doesn't turn off when it boils. (check your privilege! ;) )

More a coffee drinker meself, but when I do go for tea, I always prefer Earl Grey.

cunt wrote:

LMU wrote:No worries JR :)

Grats to J"F"V! :D

Tea Drinkers: what tea is the best? There is a large array of fruity and herbal and black teas. I have yet to find a black tea that wakes me up the way soda does.

Tetley tea or PG Tips, in tea-bags. With a bit of milk and no sugar. If you're american, make sure you actually wait until the kettle fucking boils. That means until it switches itself off.

This. With bolts on. Fuck that fancy weird bollocks - its all freshly-squeezed scrotum juice anyway. Also half-milk, two sugar too.

The Pelagic Argosy wrote:Builders' tea for me. Plenty of tannin and milk to match. And two sugars. The best cups of tea I've ever had were in greasy spoon caffs. Never been able to reproduce this at home.

Psst, trade secret. Needs one of them big fuckoff Burco-boiler urn doobries with the flippy tap affair, and most essential, a dial thermostatic switch.
Fill boiler with that awful stuff that comes out of the tap, crank it up to full chat, a rolling boil, as you note. Not vaguely .. bubbly.
Off with the lid, dump in teaBAGS (unless you fancy de-coking the tap, with a few gallons of recently-boiled fluid backed up behind it. Now how would I know that?). About a plasterer's left boot-full.
Mash as required (that'll be sort of tan-brogue-coloured even when it's half-and-half milk/Carnation/Marvel, for Sir??).

SECRET:- hoy the bags out! (Reserve for secondary individual brews, or emergencies. A clothesline in the site hut is handy, one of those with the little metal clothespegs attached, somewhere near the Superser. But not near socks).
Now dial it back to somewhere above pasteurisation temp., not even simmering. I suppose you could fake it on the oven ring with a big pan.

Let it sit for hours and hours and hours. Oh OK till it starts raining again, if you must.

That way you get the proper brickies' tea tang, without the nasty wet cardboard taste (now how would I know that?) of all the tannins and other vegetable guff extracted to excess. Like when you let an ale-brew sit on the hops too long, and not boiling, and then splash it out into the fermenter, so it goes all vile and oxidised (I think. Is there a scientist in the house?)

There you are. I'll even let you stub your fag out in the egg, after you've scoffed your Liverpool caviar on toast.

Green gunpowder, from the Chinese supermarket, those little rolled-up greyish-green leaf-pellets, dunno the right chinese name for it. Wizzy. Near as good as the cloth bit inside a benzedrex inhaler.
In a small teapot. Made as frugally as tolerable. And no milk or any other stuff, of course.

AndrewV69 wrote:

Steersman wrote: ...
As a suggestion or “feature request”, you might want to consider trying to promote the SCA into supporting the ratification of UN Charter on the Rights of the Child – which the US along with Somalia among all the nations in the UN has yet to do in spite of it being released some 15 years ago. ...

If you point out that it also provides a wonderful framework for the state to mediate and mandate programs for effective human resource management.

Stuff like mandatory state approved/funded child care programs. *shrug* I do not blame any country for not signing up.

You really have to be careful what you ask for. You may get it.

Sympathy for the boys and girls over on Islamic Awakening peeking through there Andrew? ;-)

We manage to teach kids reading, ’riting & ’rithmetic as a common base without that producing claims that we’re turning them all into Hitler Youth; I fail to see why teaching them “Comparative Religions” – for example – from an early age has to be regarded, at least potentially, as that. If various religions have such a claim to fame and the inside track to The Truth one would think that that latter course would be the best method of ensuring the correct choice, of guaranteeing that children do not have their right to freedom of religion abrogated.

Seems to me that only “vested interests” are going to exhibit much aversion to that UN Charter. And relative to the actions of those interests you might be interested in this post by Jerry Coyne over the recent riots in the Islamic world:

The violence continues in the Middle East over the movie "Innocence of Muslims", about whose making much remains mysterious. But one thing is for sure: the U.S. government had nothing to do with it. Despite that, Muslims offended by the movie continue to riot and kill: today in Afghanistan, a suicide bomber killed 14 people, including 10 foreigners, and an Egyptian cleric issued a fatwa calling for the death of everyone involved in the movie. The unrest will continue and more will die, all testimony to the vicious xenophobia inherent in "the religion of peace."

And likewise with the efforts of Pakistan to criminalize blasphemy of primarily, mirabile dictu, Islam:

The Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf has called upon the world community to declare blasphemy despicable and a criminal act.

Addressing Ishq-e-Mustafa Conference held at the Prime Minister House, he said denial of holocaust is met with punishment but Muslims’ sentiments are absolutely disregarded, adding it is incumbent upon all as a Muslim to protest against any insult to the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

Piss on the fucking Prophet …. Demanding respect for that political opportunist and pedophile is tantamount to a demand to bend the knee to the whole fucking monstrous religion and every half-assed and fully-baked Islamic thug and terrorist, of which there are far too many, with an axe to grind.

Freedom of religion for children seems to be the most effective method of cutting them – and Christians of the same ilk – off at the knees.

TBH I didn't really buy the whole "muslims exploding" (literally or metaphorically) over the film. There is a lot of tension in the Islamic world over US interference, exploitation, outright occupation, constant drone strikes/air strikes. You name it. Surely those who have been on the receiving end of the "guys, dont do that" narrative would stop to think twice.

DownThunder wrote:TBH I didn't really buy the whole "muslims exploding" (literally or metaphorically) over the film. There is a lot of tension in the Islamic world over US interference, exploitation, outright occupation, constant drone strikes/air strikes. You name it. Surely those who have been on the receiving end of the "guys, dont do that" narrative would stop to think twice.

To clarify, over the film alone is what I mean. It may be the straw that broke the camels back, but still a straw.

DownThunder wrote:TBH I didn't really buy the whole "muslims exploding" (literally or metaphorically) over the film. There is a lot of tension in the Islamic world over US interference, exploitation, outright occupation, constant drone strikes/air strikes. You name it. Surely those who have been on the receiving end of the "guys, dont do that" narrative would stop to think twice.

Haven’t actually read a lot of detail about that movie issue itself and I’ll agree that the response might be somewhat of a “last straw” effect. And likewise that the colonialism of the British, French and Americans in the Islamic world has been a contributing factor. Unfortunately from what I’ve read it seems that Islam tends naturally to be antithetical to democracy and conducive to the autocracy that is the ideal handmaiden to the colonial powers – and antithetical to the best interests of the populace. Quite an explosive mixture, I think.

But this, I find, doesn’t really compute:

You name it. Surely those who have been on the receiving end of the "guys, don’t do that" narrative would stop to think twice.

Who should be thinking twice? The people who made the movie or those rioting? Or ….?

Steersman wrote: Freedom of religion for children seems to be the most effective method of cutting them – and Christians of the same ilk – off at the knees.

I think you mean freedom from religion?

In any event, I strongly suspect that attempting to eradicate religion is doomed to fail because the religious imperative has a heritable genetic basis. With that premise in mind I would rather my kids believe in God than in PeeZuss.

It is a fatal assumption for "natural" and "intellectual" non-believers in my opinion, to believe that not teaching religion is all that is necessary. You have to substitute something, or inculcate tolerance if you do not.

Unleashing the religious without net-benefit societal beliefs is going to have negative impacts because they will latch on to a substitute. At best, you wind up with the baboons and PeeZuss.

When I mentioned genetic heritable traits, it is the same reason why I suspect that any given population will always have 2-4% people who are gay, even if the current crop never reproduce themselves, and why if they do have children, almost none of them will turn out gay either.

Bottom line, the religious and the gay are here to stay, they are not going away any time soon because they are an expression of a part of the genome intrinsic to humans.

An ideal society therefore, will accommodate, tolerate and harness in a productive manner these segments of the population in a manner that will benefit everyone.

DownThunder wrote:TBH I didn't really buy the whole "muslims exploding" (literally or metaphorically) over the film. There is a lot of tension in the Islamic world over US interference, exploitation, outright occupation, constant drone strikes/air strikes. You name it. Surely those who have been on the receiving end of the "guys, dont do that" narrative would stop to think twice.

The film is a smokescreen and an excuse. However, simply blaming "the West" just doesn't cut it. There is Islamist violence is places where the US is not involved, and we have seen time and time again that Islamists are quite prepared to use any excuse to kick things off - remember the teddy bear.

I don't blame Muslims for feeling pissed off - if I was living under any form of dominant religion I would be pissed off too. Therein lies the problem.

@ Scented Nectar,

That video on your blog about the "Grand Island Preschooler Asked to Change the Sign for His Name in School" was funny.

That school board is a contender with the TDSB in my opinion.

AndrewV69 wrote:

disumbrationist wrote:No, this is the Mind Projection Fallacy: she points her finger at a man and says "you are Schrodinger's Rapist." She's externalized her own lack of certainty. Notably the original article is, as you mentioned, less guilty of the fallacy than others who have mindlessly repeated it.
Part of the problem is that she started from a concept few, if any, understand: Schrodingers reductio ad absurdum of quantum measurement. That is, after all, what it was: Schrodinger was trying to show that the the Copenhagen Interpretation lent itself to absurd conclusions; the authoress of Schrodingers Rapists took that 'absurdity' and defended it as a rational conclusion. She could have written a nice, sensible article about how women mitigate risk using simple, everyday concepts.

At the time if I remember correctly I compared it to being awarded a "door prize" while riding a bicycle. After that you are always going to be a bit wary of a parked car with someone in it when riding past on your bicycle.

Reminds me of some popularizer of science noting that most men – I’ll go out on a limb and suggest 85% - when they see another man receive a basketball or soccer ball in the knackers are going to cringe in sympathy. While the situations are probably not entirely analogous – possibly a smaller percentage of women who have been raped than men with that type of sports injury, they seem close enough, I think, to justify some sympathy from the latter for the former – particularly since the trauma associated with the former is likely to be the greater.

But I’ll agree with you about differentiating between reasonable prudence and going for the gold in the Oppression Olympics ….

Steersman wrote:Who should be thinking twice? The people who made the movie or those rioting? Or ….?

I just mean we should be sceptical of reducing a complex situation to a very simple single thing, then judging whole groups of people by that simple litmus test.

On a lighter note: Our friend woollies.

[youtube]nqiPLnnGcVE[/youtube]

http://tessrinearson.com/blog/?p=560

Wow.

Had to check whether it was a poe. Including the article, at least one of the comments was on the brink of being very subtle parody, or very stupid.

Here's Hitchens on how to make a decent cup tea...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... f_tea.html

AndrewV69 wrote:

Steersman wrote: Freedom of religion for children seems to be the most effective method of cutting them – and Christians of the same ilk – off at the knees.

I think you mean freedom from religion?

The Charter says “of”:

Article 14
1. States Parties shall respect the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

2. States Parties shall respect the rights and duties of the parents and, when applicable, legal guardians, to provide direction to the child in the exercise of his or her right in a manner consistent with the evolving capacities of the child.

3. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health or morals, or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

Something that tends to be antithetical to most dogmatic religions – heaven forefend that the hoi polloi should think for themselves.

In any event, I strongly suspect that attempting to eradicate religion is doomed to fail because the religious imperative has a heritable genetic basis. ….

Cannibalism might well have a “heritable genetic basis” too. The question, I think, is whether any particular behaviour pattern, with or without a genetic basis, leads to an accurate and truthful handle on what is real. And unless you can prove that religion does that then I think you’re going to have a tough sale.

It is a fatal assumption for "natural" and "intellectual" non-believers in my opinion, to believe that not teaching religion is all that is necessary. You have to substitute something, or inculcate tolerance if you do not.

Maybe we could let the people decide what to do after they’ve been detoxified of the opium of religion? But I’ll agree that the sense of purpose that religion provides is not without its charms or potency and that alternatives may be thin on the ground. Somewhat apropos of which is this from the anthropologist John Hartung that I quoted earlier:

Without an analogue to heaven, eco-morality will suffer the same fate as communism. Ways and means are not the issue. The question remains, ways and means to what?

Part of the reason why I think that PZ and company are pushing “Movement Atheism”, but the question is, what happens after it supposedly reaches its goals? Unless there’s some discussion of that eventuality the whole process bears some resemblance to Stephen Leacock’s “riding madly off in all directions” ...

Bottom line, the religious and the gay are here to stay, they are not going away any time soon because they are an expression of a part of the genome intrinsic to humans.

Ipse dixit? I don’t know much about whatever genetic basis there might be for homosexuality, but I ran across something the other day from some biologist or other scientist who argued that a crucial element of religion is essentially gullibility and whatever genetic factors that undergird it. They argued that during our evolution the ability to accept what one’s elders has told one tends to be conducive to the survival of that “gene” and the species of which it is a fundamental part. Provided, of course, that what is told is in fact the truth.

And if it is not then that is a serious pathology and the young follow the old over the cliff. Seems quite crucial that whatever genome promotes William James’ “will to believe” has to be counterbalanced by others of a more practical nature. As Bertrand Russell put it:

William James used to preach the “will to believe”. For my part, I should wish to preach the “will to doubt” … What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite. (Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays [1928]; quoted in Broca’s Brain, Carl Sagan, pg 51)

And as Hitchens said, “religion belongs to the childhood of our species”; maybe, paraphrasing the Bible, time to put away the things of that phase of our evolution which no longer comport with the practical exigencies of adulthood ….

DownThunder wrote:On a lighter note: Our friend woollies.
...Feminists pocket problems..

I wonder if feminists watch Curb your enthusiasm for inspiration ;)
[youtube]sGjElvt4nP8[/youtube]

DownThunder wrote:

Steersman wrote:Who should be thinking twice? The people who made the movie or those rioting? Or ….?

I just mean we should be sceptical of reducing a complex situation to a very simple single thing, then judging whole groups of people by that simple litmus test.

Well then I can agree with that. Provides some justification, I think, for a contrarian position: quite probably, any simple analysis is going to be missing a few important facets. The fairly well-known biologist, David Sloan Wilson, had some comments about PZ Myers along that line, a relevant one being this:

Myers should learn from another evolutionist, A.J. Cain, who said that "Only the shallowest mind can believe that in a great controversy, one side is mere folly".

I don't know where to start with this uncharacteristic abortion of reasoning.
I want you to answer each one of my carefully selected queries, as an earnest of good faith.

AndrewV69 wrote:...I would rather my kids believe in God than in PeeZuss.

Which God? Why the singular?
I understand that the cult of PZ is vaguely toxic in a Western privileged scheme, but "way to go" for extreme hyperbole!

AndrewV69 wrote:It is a fatal assumption for "natural" and "intellectual" non-believers in my opinion, to believe that not teaching religion is all that is necessary. You have to substitute something, or inculcate tolerance if you do not.

Utter, utter bollocks!
On every count!
The Pirahã people are but one counter-example to your preposterous hyposthesis. And just one counter-example is all it requires to demolish a bogus proposition.

AndrewV69 wrote:Unleashing the religious without net-benefit societal beliefs is going to have negative impacts because they will latch on to a substitute. At best, you wind up with the baboons and PeeZuss.

Outrageous Bullshit.
There are thousands of counter examples, look at Dawkins' conversion corner for the more public of them.
Again, a single counter-example is all that is required to negate your bollocks.

AndrewV69 wrote:When I mentioned genetic heritable traits, it is the same reason why I suspect that any given population will always have 2-4% people who are gay, even if the current crop never reproduce themselves, and why if they do have children, almost none of them will turn out gay either.

But you are conflating two very different animals here:
Homosexuality, psychopathy, sociopathy all can be modeled in the abstract to an evolutionary stable strategy.
The delusion of religion cannot.

AndrewV69 wrote: Bottom line, the religious and the gay are here to stay, they are not going away any time soon because they are an expression of a part of the genome intrinsic to humans.

Mmm... not quite true, but close enough to let by the keeper.
But that observation has ZERO to do with the CLEARLY ACQUIRED delusion that is faith.

AndrewV69 wrote:An ideal society therefore, will accommodate, tolerate and harness in a productive manner these segments of the population in a manner that will benefit everyone.

Bullshit!
Again!
Now you are insouciantly confusing, (not conflating), behaviour with belief! (And vice versa)
Oh Andrew. Hast thine IQ been so damaged by reading Steersman's shallow logic?

Re the chances of being badly or fatally hurt - http://www.smh.com.au/national/bad-thin ... 26q0m.html

If you're american, make sure you actually wait until the kettle fucking boils.

I think Hitch got this stereotype of Americans not boiling water for tea started. I think he frequented restaurants where they give you that little pot of warm water and a cup with a tea bag. I've been in restaurants in Europe that do the same thing. This isn't how we make tea at home. I've never been to anyone's house where they don't boil water for tea. As for tea choices PG tips is very good, if you have to use Twinings, Prince of Wales is not bad with milk.

SPACKlick wrote:I'm currently trying to put together a survey that will help me get some data for my local area, but on a straw poll among my online contacts, S'sR is way overstating the case and most of the precautions (don't walk down a dark alley alone while drunk) are exactly like my precautions. I'm just not scared when I take them, it's just part of life.

Glad I'm making some sense. :) I'd love to find better stats that give a more complete picture - particularly as has been pointed out earlier it's only 11% who would come after a stranger, and most of the precautions seem to centre around that. Interested to find out what your survey turns up!

When I was stationed in Germany many years ago, my group of friends all had nicknames. The usual, we had a "Tiny" because he was 6'5" and we had an "asshole" because it rhymed with his last name. And we had a couple of what the fems now call "chill girls", one of whom got named "Maxwell". She didn't know why and as far as I know, never asked. She'd even introduce herself to people as "Maxwell".

I thought it was mean at the time (and still do) because the reason she got named "Maxwell" was because part of her anatomy was the size of a coffee can (Maxwell House being a brand name for coffee). I never called her that (the mean thing) and always called her by her first name. But now, decades later, I can't remember her real name, only "Maxwell". But women did it too, one of my friends (a guy) was nicknamed "Quick Draw" by the females, because he was usually finished with sex in under a minute. So both teams can be mean.

David Futrelle had an sad day Thursday, it started off on a high when PZ Myers linked to him, but ended with Manboobz down in the dumps. so I'm thinking of him, and hope this song will cheer him up.

[youtube]Yop62wQH498[/youtube]

He promises in his blog that Friday will be better. Friday he'll get even. Friday all the nasties will get theres.

KiwiInOz wrote:Re the chances of being badly or fatally hurt - http://www.smh.com.au/national/bad-thin ... 26q0m.html

Great article. Feel a bit justified now in the fact I really don't think about this kind of stuff.

Regarding the MRA-and-the-depressed-wife, I find it fascinating that PZ automatically assumed the woman would be staying home and looking after the kid. That's really what I took away from all that.

rayshul wrote:Regarding the MRA-and-the-depressed-wife, I find it fascinating that PZ automatically assumed the woman would be staying home and looking after the kid. That's really what I took away from all that.

Some of our whitest knights are closeted sexist pigs, go figure....

And some of our most skeptical scientists are the quickest to jump to conclusions.

somedumbguy wrote:

rayshul wrote:Regarding the MRA-and-the-depressed-wife, I find it fascinating that PZ automatically assumed the woman would be staying home and looking after the kid. That's really what I took away from all that.

Some of our whitest knights are closeted sexist pigs, go figure....

I assume all white knights are sexist pigs.

rayshul wrote:

somedumbguy wrote:

rayshul wrote:Regarding the MRA-and-the-depressed-wife, I find it fascinating that PZ automatically assumed the woman would be staying home and looking after the kid. That's really what I took away from all that.

Some of our whitest knights are closeted sexist pigs, go figure....

I assume all white knights are sexist pigs.

Whereas Black Knights:

[youtube]mjEcj8KpuJw[/youtube]

rayshul wrote:

KiwiInOz wrote:Re the chances of being badly or fatally hurt - http://www.smh.com.au/national/bad-thin ... 26q0m.html

Great article. Feel a bit justified now in the fact I really don't think about this kind of stuff.

This phenomenon happens a lot in my part of the world. Say, a newspaper decides to run a story about a little girl being attacked by a dog, and you can be sure that for the next couple of weeks, most news outlets will be reporting other similar incidents, as if there was a sudden epidemics of dog attacks. Needless to say, the general populace will be very weary of big dogs during the media fuckfest, but the situation comes back to normal as soon as the stories are let go and the medias turn to something else.

It sounds a bit like what has been happening WRT harrassement at skeptic events, doesn't it?

Kiwi: it's just a fleshwound!

Michael K Gray wrote:

AndrewV69 wrote:When I mentioned genetic heritable traits, it is the same reason why I suspect that any given population will always have 2-4% people who are gay, even if the current crop never reproduce themselves, and why if they do have children, almost none of them will turn out gay either.

But you are conflating two very different animals here:
Homosexuality, psychopathy, sociopathy all can be modeled in the abstract to an evolutionary stable strategy.
The delusion of religion cannot.

Maybe it’s just my “shallow logic” speaking, but my impression from reading about topics such as the cognitive science of religion that there is a fair amount about religion that is genetically determined. If that is the case then one might find it somewhat difficult to dispute that it also partakes of various “evolutionarily stable strategies”. Unless you want to then in effect join the gender feminists in asserting gender is also entirely a social construct ....

Michael K Gray wrote:Oh Andrew. Hast thine IQ been so damaged by reading Steersman's shallow logic?

You have any evidence to back-up that claim about “shallow logic”? Or are you just blowing smoke?

sacha wrote:

Philip of Tealand wrote:

sacha wrote:

TedDahlberg wrote:

Philip of Tealand wrote:Coffee? Ted, don't do that

Tea, maybe, if you are lucky!

Now I'm wondering… if coffee is sex, what is tea?

anal

Pouring Tea into your arse isn't something I'd recommend - everyone to their own of course, I'd be the last person to comment on what floats your sexual boat - I'd just be worried about the scalding!

I was referring to my addiction to tea...

I have a Tea addiction too.

I also have a terribly filthy mind

I blame The Patriarchy

Is Hemant really that naïve?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... calendars/

mordacious1 wrote:

If you're american, make sure you actually wait until the kettle fucking boils.

I think Hitch got this stereotype of Americans not boiling water for tea started. I think he frequented restaurants where they give you that little pot of warm water and a cup with a tea bag. I've been in restaurants in Europe that do the same thing. This isn't how we make tea at home. I've never been to anyone's house where they don't boil water for tea. As for tea choices PG tips is very good, if you have to use Twinings, Prince of Wales is not bad with milk.

Twinnings is far superior to PG Tips!

I have on my work desk Earl Grey (Aka The Captain's Choice) Assam, English Breakfast, Chai, Keemun, Lapsang Souchong, Yunnan and some Whitards of Chelsea Spice Imperial loose leaf for when I really feel like a good cup of Tea.

Russian Caravan is also delicious, I really should get some here

I'd be terribly upset if Tea ever vanished from this planet, I'd probably riot. A Lot.

I've got Chinese Dinner Green Tea with jasmin, Russian Earl Grey, Chinese Gunpowder, and Lipton Green Tea with Mint. Lipton is the only one in bags (which, incidently, happened by accident after a tea seller decided to ship samples of his products in small silk bags and people started using them the way we do today. True story).

First appearing commercially around 1904, tea bags were successfully marketed by the tea and coffee shop merchant Thomas Sullivan from New York, who shipped his tea bags around the world. The loose tea was intended to be removed from the bags by customers, but they found it easier to prepare tea with the tea enclosed in the bags.

From the cesspit of lies, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag

(I feel like I'm rehashing common knowledge, arent I? Well, in France it's a little known fact)

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I've got Chinese Dinner Green Tea with jasmin, Russian Earl Grey, Chinese Gunpowder, and Lipton Green Tea with Mint. Lipton is the only one in bags (which, incidently, happened by accident after a tea seller decided to ship samples of his products in small silk bags and people started using them the way we do today. True story).
....
From the cesspit of lies, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag

(I feel like I'm rehashing common knowledge, arent I? Well, in France it's a little known fact)

That info hadn’t filtered down to the colonies either, at least this backwater in one ....

Steersman wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I've got Chinese Dinner Green Tea with jasmin, Russian Earl Grey, Chinese Gunpowder, and Lipton Green Tea with Mint. Lipton is the only one in bags (which, incidently, happened by accident after a tea seller decided to ship samples of his products in small silk bags and people started using them the way we do today. True story).
....
From the cesspit of lies, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag

(I feel like I'm rehashing common knowledge, arent I? Well, in France it's a little known fact)

That info hadn’t filtered down to the colonies either, at least this backwater in one ....

Don't feel too bad, I've only learned about this a year or so ago, through Listverse.