Periodic Table of Swearing

[John Greg]

Which do people prefer? Blog or forum? (I know SN's answer...)

Perhaps you should run another poll?

I think I am comfortable either way, but I would argue that a forum is more maleable.

With a forum you can, as you are doing, run a sort of pseudo blog with the endless thread, and still have other places for other stuf, like the images, and various admin stuff, and whatnot, that would only clutter up a normal, single column blog.

I am a little mystified with Scented Nectar's apparent refusal to participate just because it's not a blog. Perhpas she's in mourning for ERV. That would make sense. It was a warm and cozy home, for the most part. And having Abbie floating about as our sort of gracious Devine Influence was rather nice.

[sacha]

Lsuoma wrote:Where IS the Hoggler, BTW? And Scented Nectar, for that matter?

Franc will be back soon.

[Dilurk]

http://slymepit.com/wp

Currently wrestling with domain names to get it to appear at http://blog.slympit.com/.

Which do people prefer? Blog or forum? (I know SN's answer...)

I kinda like the idea that the blog should host the chitchat, and the forum hold the less ephemeral stuff...

I sorta feel like I made it to the party late and the lights are going out.

[Dilurk]

(Cross posted)


Wow. Now here's some real fighting against sexism not the faux sexism bullied by others.

http://jezebel.com/5922961/the-fight-ag ... -big-names

Gaming does not interest me at all, but if she is capable of doing it and she's butt hurting male egos, this is equity feminism not "I'm a poor little weak girl" feminism.

[Badger3k]

http://slymepit.com/wp

Currently wrestling with domain names to get it to appear at http://blog.slympit.com/.

Which do people prefer? Blog or forum? (I know SN's answer...)

I kinda like the idea that the blog should host the chitchat, and the forum hold the less ephemeral stuff...

For just idle chat and posting snark, I think a blog is good. For a more detailed discussion, with links, images, and quotes of previous comments, I've found blog comments to be underwhelming. Even when you have nested comments it's a mess to read, especially if there are a lot of comments - trying to read new nested comments on the blogs that do it is a nightmare and I rarely go back more than once or twice to look for responses. After that, it gets too much trouble to bother with. That's my three cents (adjusted for inflation)

[Lsuoma]

I'm trying to give people options to keep the momentum going from Abbie's threads. It may the case the the Slyme Pit isn't needed, and it may be time to let the phenomenon of the Slime Pit to die.

I can't make it happen - it's only the old people from ERV who can do that. Maybe people don't feel the need for a replacement and that now is an ideal opportunity to take some time out

SN was certainly one of the more interesting and prolific posters at ERV, so it would be great if she showed up at the Slyme Blog.

I really don't know - people have to make up their minds to participate in some way, and preferably focus mainly on a single medium (blog or forum) with the other as a backup if necessary.

Over to you all...

[Dilurk]

I'm trying to give people options to keep the momentum going from Abbie's threads. It may the case the the Slyme Pit isn't needed, and it may be time to let the phenomenon of the Slime Pit to die.

I can't make it happen - it's only the old people from ERV who can do that. Maybe people don't feel the need for a replacement and that now is an ideal opportunity to take some time out

SN was certainly one of the more interesting and prolific posters at ERV, so it would be great if she showed up at the Slyme Blog.

I really don't know - people have to make up their minds to participate in some way, and preferably focus mainly on a single medium (blog or forum) with the other as a backup if necessary.

Over to you all...

You can lead a horse to water... It would be nice to see SN but as you said, but perhaps the time for the Slyme Pit has come and gone. In many ways that might be the best. You guys have been like bulldogs, finally getting people like Paula Kirby aware of what the PZ bullies are doing. I'd be concerned that it would be seen as a successful take down of an opponent to the bullies.

[sacha]

I think there are quite a few who want a blog.
And you should write Nectar with everything you have been considering the last few comments.

Franc will return soon.

Phil, I see you stalking. : )

[the rayshul]

I don't care what it is, but I sure like having somewhere to bitch about this stupidity.

[John Greg]

I think it still serves an important purpose.

It gives Justicar something to throw hysterics about.

:D

seriously, though, I do think it serves a purpose. After all, FfTB and Skepchick are still doing their thing, so we should be too.

[John Greg]

Jason Griffiths' blogging partner (Paul Loebe) paraphrases Jason's description of the slimepit people as:

"a group of misogynistic assholes hang out on the internet that participate in outright douchebaggery whenever Abbie Smith (who he informed me is a prominent blogger) posts a blog. Basically they’re a bunch of sexist dirtbags that utilize the anonymity of the internet in order to verbally assault women and tear them down without fear of repercussion."

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondb ... -slimepit/

Nice.

Why do these people always seem to just take someone's word for it, and never bother to find out for themselves what we're all about?

I posted a rebuttal, but it is in moderation.

[JAB]

If it's a blog, whose blog is it? Is there going to be a post or posts that we comment on, or is it going to be like the periodic table thread on a blog?

Because if it's going to be one basically empty post with a long stream of comments unrelated to it, then that's what this thread is already, isn't it? We can already set the comment and edit rules how we like in either format, so that isn't much of an issue. So I don't know why we have to go to any more work to redo what's already been established. Or maybe someone needs to enlighten me to the differences that I can't see.

[JAB]

...and course by we I mean Lsuoma since moving my own lazy ass over here wasn't much work at all. ;)

[Lsuoma]

One of the reasons that Scented Nectar says she's staying away is her dislike for things like phpBB (which drives this forum), since she can't easily see which are the new posts without being logged in, whereas it's easy to just jump to the end of a blog thread.

I'm offering the options to see what people feel most comfortable with, but to be honest, I'm not sensing a real desire to keep the discussion going except on the part of a handful of former Slime Pit denizens.

Like I said, though, if it's time for the discussion to end or move on somewhere else, so be it...

[John Greg]

Like I said, though, if it's time for the discussion to end or move on somewhere else, so be it...

Or just carry on as we are?

Why not?

[Lsuoma]

Of course - this forum's not going anywhere. Open for business as long as people want...

[CommanderTuvok]

Jennifer McCreight ‏:

Yeah, I've been invited to speak where like 5 people show up... Not fun

Sounds like SkepchickCon was popular! :)

[CommanderTuvok]

Queen Bee shows off her artistic talents - http://ow.ly/i/KKso

PZ Barnum and Osama Greg Laden are sitting at either end - the best place to keep everybody in check and under their thumbs.

[CommanderTuvok]

Amy Davis Roth ‏@SurlyAmy

Rebecca Watson speaking of the graphic threats she gets online. #cvg2012

Wot? Again? Does she talk about anything else? Except getting drunk again, perhaps? Given her half-arsed attitude to Greg Laden's online bullying and threats, I'm amazed she considers it an important subject. Oh, but then again, if it affects her or her agenda, then it is top priority. If it is inconvenient, such as Laden's threats, she suddenly forgets about it - a bit like her strange inability to remember faces.

[Evan]

Jennifer McCreight ‏:

Yeah, I've been invited to speak where like 5 people show up... Not fun

Sounds like SkepchickCon was popular! :)

To be fair, I believe that Jennifer McCreight is at the SSA 2012 conference rather than SkepChickCon.

The top #ssa2012 tweet at the moment:

.@jennifurret asked who feels unsafe walking home from an event late at night. Every woman in the room raised their hands. ‪#SSA2012‬

I certainly want women to be safe wherever they are, able to travel wherever they need or want to go by whatever means of transportation they choose, without aggression or threats thereof. I would even offer to walk with such a woman who felt unsafe if she desired my assistance in that way. However, all the discussions of Schroedinger's Rapist, Schroedinger's Threat, etc., are making women more afraid but not necessarily more safe.

SSA ladies, if every man is a potential rapist, then why not prepare for that possibility? Travel in groups. Take a self-defense class. Stay sober in untrusted environments. Avoid going certain places at certain hours. Do whatever it takes to give yourself that sense of security, but please don't put the responsibility on everyone else to cater to your fear. My fears are my responsibility, not yours, and vice versa. I will do my best to respect your personal space and speak in a way that respects your desires for autonomy and safety. In return, I would appreciate it if you would respect my opinion (even if you strongly disagree) without accusing me of misogyny, mansplaining, or anything else for which you lack evidence. Thank you.

[Darren]

but perhaps the time for the Slyme Pit has come and gone. In many ways that might be the best. You guys have been like bulldogs, finally getting people like Paula Kirby aware of what the PZ bullies are doing. I'd be concerned that it would be seen as a successful take down of an opponent to the bullies.

My thoughts, precisely. Others are taking notice of FtB, and some (eg: Stangroom, Kazez) see the slyme pit as an unwanted hinderance. At the moment, I'm hedging my bets. If these guys keep speaking out and bringing serious pressure on FtB, I'm happy to let the pit fade away.

On the other hand, quoth the rayshul:

I sure like having somewhere to bitch about this stupidity.

:mrgreen:

[sacha]

Allow me to make this clear. This is not in response to Justicar. What he thinks, or posts about me does not affect me, I advise he keep going. He only makes it worse for himself.

This is in response to my fellow skeptics rightly demanding evidence for my post. I was lazy, I should have done this immediately. It took over 3 hours non-stop, and unless specific clarification is needed, these are my very last words on the subject.

Franc will screen capture all of these comments and put them all together, since I heard a rumour that the original slimepit threads will be moved, and let me tell you, I am never doing this again.

I apologise for the formatting issues, When I was doing the research, I was saving it little by little and this is how it turned out. I can't be bothered to repair it for asthetic reasons only.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Why do these people always seem to just take someone's word for it, and never bother to find out for themselves what we're all about?...

I don't know if I agree with that. It's no secret that I have always agreed with John C. Welch and Nectar on language, tone, memes (even CK was fine with me, but I'm tired of the arguments, so I'm not sorry to see it go).

I like being a part of something "infamous". So we use colourful language, we also tell it like it is, which very few others do, (you are wonderful, Paula Kirby). This politically correct bullshit that has taken over free speech, can go fuck itself. As Hitch said, "you have no right not to be offended".

Has anyone listened to Hitch when he was not publicly debating, or speaking? CK would not have fazed him.

This is mainly a conversation between like minded people, it is not our "press release", we all have our own views, and perspective. Some things, like the baboons, we all seem to agree on, if we agreed on everything, it would be terribly boring. If we had to mind our language, in order to "look better" to outsiders, I would not want to be a part of it, unless it was in addition to this. If you can't handle the honesty and freedom, and lack of words being considered magic, then you are not cut out to join. As I said before on ERV:

"I’m afraid that if you want a kinder, gentler slimepit, you should create one. Many of us would contribute there, and those who are with us when it comes to FfTB but feel uncomfortable with the slimepit association, can join us there..."
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-49489


here I am supporting the tone down for Abbie again:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48379

That isn't what this is. The original Slime Pit was a place to not be concerned about minding what we say, it was a place to and vent, to join other intelligent, articulate, rational, hardcore skeptics who are anti-pc dialog, anti-baboon, and the Merkins were the minority. Plus the Merkins that were regulars were not at all US-centric.

We had arguments and rants against each other, and resolved our differences, agreed that there was two ways to look at it, or disagreed completely, but acknowledged there is more to the person than their view on one topic. Other than Justi, we listened when other commenters told us that we needed to get some sleep and clarity, that we were reacting irrationally.
We got rid of the idiots and the 4channers, and the baboons without censoring, editing, or banning. Those who could not handle our bluntness and our "you have no right to be offended" stance, quietly left.

It was a private pub. The way to get a membership card was to be able to look beyond the language and tone, and see why it was important to us to have a place to talk. Pearl clutching, politically correct, victim gender feminists pussies, need not apply.

here is John C. Welch, explaining it far better than I:
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-49019

and

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48565


here is Justicar saying "I-have-no-power-here-in-any-shape asking people to be a little more thoughtful in what they say, not gratuitous in how they say it ..." which is his out. He then goes ahead from then on to act as though he has power, even in the same fucking comment:


http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48536

and even more in the next one:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48542

and again:
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48393

and again goes back to act as if he is asking for Abbie's sake:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48401

Clearly Justicar is pushing for tone control. He is not asking for it just to be until Abbie is in the clear, he is making the argument about how we look to outsiders.
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48405


but then as an after thought, he leaves this comment about doing it for Abbie (even though he is talking about how we appear to outsiders, and not in order to protect Abbie:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48543

This why I began to get angry with Justicar this time. Last time he was in a psychotic state, he posted non-stop the exact same argument in pages and pages of text for over 48 hours straight.


Here is Abbie, clearly not concerned about language:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48776

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48789

here is Abbie prior to that:

the two comments to follow are important:

" I dont care what words people use to express themselves or their opinions. I physically could not care less. Doesnt effect me.... Idiots will *ALWAYS* find something to complain about...."

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48265


"And this is why comment moderation and censorship are quite unnecessary..."

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48296

here Abbie is struggling with what she believes in (complete freedom of speech) and the repercussions it has had on her:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48384

Perhaps the most important Abbie quote for my defense, because Abbie comes out in support for my words:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48379

and Justicar clearly stating that he thinks the tone should be controlled regardless of if it will affect Abbie or not:

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48387

and one of many reactions to Justicar's acting as though his views are being attacked, (and of course his views are the most important.)

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48388

and Abbie thanking us for caring enough to tone it down at ERV for her well being:
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48484

Here is a perfect example of trying to weigh all of the perspectives, without making it seem as though they are the official spokesperson, or that they are speaking for Abbie:
Read it carefully. Having a place like the original slimepit that does not affect Abbie, and another place where the tone is moderate and outsiders can feel as though it is welcoming to them is the answer to this comment, which is exactly what I have been saying since the beginning.

"...I don’t care, really, that the FC6 say I’m a bad person, I beat my dog, hate my wife, etc. I don’t LIKE it, but whatever. Haters gonna hate. But when I see that to them, trying to wreck jobs and careers is acceptable? That can’t just be ignored. (FWIW, i’m sorry it happened to you abbie, you certainly don’t deserve it.)..."
"...If nothing else, I respect Abbie enough, and consider her enough of a friend to make changes to help her out"

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/11/26/ ... ment-48437

[sacha]

It would have been nice if I had caught the incorrect spelling of defense.

Now will someone please tell me how the fuck to post a profile picture?
My rook is not online, if I need to put it online to link to it, please tell me a good place to do that.

Also, I cannot stress enough, how important it is to take the time to email Nectar, and have her be a part in the decision making. If she will only join a blog, I say we move this to a blog. Also, I would like this thread to be named after Abbie's courage. Lsuoma, you may want to ask Abbie about that, and cc her in the email to Nectar. Make amends. Explain that a lot has changed in the time since you began here. Explain that there is no censoring, no tone control, no editing! (She was horrified that you edited a post of mine, even though it was only for code. It makes a very bad impression). I know you have come to the conclusion to make this far more of a free-speech thread. Explain that. You had a rocky start. If one does not follow here, how are they to know things have changed?

Abbie, Nectar, and I were the three original Gender Traitors. I think that doing what it takes to make Nectar happy, so she is a part of this, will get more of the original people to join. As for Abbie, I would give her some time, but this was her thread, her rules, her kindness, generosity, and superhero courage that allowed it to be what it was. I think Abbie should be asked what would make her want to be a part of this. I think she should be consulted as to what this becomes, her ideas and views are important to all of us. We want her to approve of the way her thread is being continued. I think that she should be a very important part of this. Take the time to email her.
If you are able to convince Abbie to read and comment on a new version of her thread, you will have the majority of the originals as well.

without Nectar and Abbie, it truly isn't the same. I almost feel like I am betraying them by being here.

It's worth the effort to include them.

[Badger3k]

Jason Griffiths' blogging partner (Paul Loebe) paraphrases Jason's description of the slimepit people as:

"a group of misogynistic assholes hang out on the internet that participate in outright douchebaggery whenever Abbie Smith (who he informed me is a prominent blogger) posts a blog. Basically they’re a bunch of sexist dirtbags that utilize the anonymity of the internet in order to verbally assault women and tear them down without fear of repercussion."

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondb ... -slimepit/

Nice.

Why do these people always seem to just take someone's word for it, and never bother to find out for themselves what we're all about?

I posted a rebuttal, but it is in moderation.

I finally read that, and was going to post, but the sad fucks so pathetic it wasn't worth my time. He's sucking up to PZ, and he's flat out refused to read and see anything for himself, but just wants to go with the flow over there. I really hope that POS never tries to call himself a skeptic - it's bad enough he's military. Sorry POS doesn't know the meaning of intel or recon? I hope he doesn't treat his job the same way he treats his intellect - we've enough problems with people who unquestioningly follow orders and lack the honor to do the tracking research for himself. "I know nothing about it, but I'll just repeat the rumors as if they were true, and not question anything - please don't send another email!"

It's also sad that he considers a lack of censorship to be cowardice. Two fucking disgraces to the uniform and their oaths. I'm glad I dumped that feed. Sorry for the rant, but such lack of intellectual capability, as well as the yellow streak up his back (well, both of them)...meh. About the only thing good there is at least he's aware of the problem with harassment in the military. He did leave out the fact that it's probably worse with the contractors and mercenaries we employ. I wonder if he'd have the guts to do anything about it, or is he just going to whine like the rest?

[Lsuoma]

How to post a profile picture:

1. Click on "User control Panel", third line down left side, home page
2. Select "Profile", second tab on tab bar under "User Control Panel"
3. Select "Edit Avatar" on left-hand menu

From that page you can either paste in a URL to have it copied from somewhere, or paste in a URL to create a link to somewhere else.

From the picture on your ERV threads, the following URL will work: http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/9bfb679f2f ... nticon&r=G

I'm just about to move from Redmond, WA to Redwood Shores, CA, so I'll be intermittent here for a day or two.

[Lsuoma]

From the picture on your ERV threads, the following URL will work: http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/9bfb679f2f ... nticon&r=G

Actually, that won't work - Science Blogs is doing odd stuff to the URL.

Try this instead: http://slymepit.com/sacha.jpg

[John Greg]

sacha, that is one powerful, profound post. Thank you for that. If I could, I'd give it a dozen thumbs up.

[sacha]

From the picture on your ERV threads, the following URL will work:

thank you.

and thank you John Greg.

[Dilurk]

sacha, You truly summed it up well. I am of the George Carlin generation, to be told that I cannot use the 7 dirty words I find laughable. I also laugh at the puritan merkins who take a hissy fit over a wardrobe malfunction but are ok with a terminating governator amputating fingers on prime time tv.
No I am clearly not from the US of A, moreover I would be proud to wear the badge of gender traitor if you lot would have me.

You are of course correct, without SN this thread is not the same. As for Abbie, I still continue to read her ERV blog as I am sure many others here do. She has enough on her plate doing real Science and fighting the good fight for reason, scepticism and the (non?) american way. Perhaps she will occasionally post here, perhaps she won't. I'd not be too bothered considering all she does. I admire her for brilliance, her ability to make Science easier to understand to others and finally for her standing up for free and open dialogue. That in itself would be why this thread should not die. A monument to free speech. Do not let the idiots like Laden think they have shut up their opponents.

[rayshul oops]

Raising your hand if you're scared? That doesn't take into the social context of the question. What guy wants to say to a crowd that going out late at night on his own makes him nervous? (And y'know, they should put their hands up too. I'm assuming this conference-y stuff is happening in America where mugging is common - I assume, I was just reading part of Hitch-22 where he got mugged - so having some degree of fear is actually a smart idea.)

So I don't know, I don't think you're going to get great fucking data from that sort of raising your hand shit and, what's more important, that doesn't give any fucking indication if there is a real danger or one that's inflated by other fears.

I'm not scared of walking home alone at my current place, but I admit I'm incredibly, shit-my-pants scared of walking through the suburbs near my parents house, but that's because when I do, it's so fucking quiet my asshole brain is like... OoooHHH. GHOSTS. MOTHERFUCKING GHOSTS. AND THEY'RE BEHIND ALL THE CARS. YEAH.

If she'd done that raising hand shit when I lived with them, my hand would be the first in the air.

[Foznik]

Long time lurker delurking to let Sacha know that her defense post was excellent. I have been thinking of posting about the same subject for several days and continue to write/delete/write/delete/write/delete. I do not post here for fear that I lack the wit, prose and banter skills to contribute substantively. So I will resort to "what she said". Now back to lurking.

[Dilurk]

I just need to quote verbatim this paragraph from Ironkidd http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogs ... plode.html

"The Amazing Atheist will rape you with his fist... apparently. And let me just say I'm sick and fucking tired of this in-group/out-group shit. I disagree with PZ and Jen McReight on some things sure, but I will never let in-group/out-group mentality prevent me from seeing or commenting on the things that we do agree on. Jen and I have had it out and yeah I've been on the opposite sides of things from her and PZ in the past obviously. But some who comment on her blogs and other blogs like hers need to hear this... if you can't see how the comments made by the Amazing Atheist were completely fucked then you're missing something, maybe intentionally maybe not. This idea that "Oh Jen doesn't like something, we should go find ways to ignore the point and attack her anyways" is moronic to the core. Stop. Please? It doesn't help anyone's cause. I blog for two reasons: 1. to vent. 2. to call bullshit when I see bullshit that annoys me. I do not blog to troll. Do I troll? Yes, but not here. I troll when whoever I'm speaking with is no longer interested in productive discourse... or when my local news channel posts some ignorant shit that ignites a shitstorm of ignorant comments that really can't be fought at the speed they flood in and it only makes me feel better to at least make their heads explode in return. I do not use this blog to troll, nor do I go around on other people's blogs in order to troll. I'm not in this to play stupid games."

Wow. Imagine being able to post a quote like that on one of the FC6 (or is it F5 now?) blogs. Agree on some things, disagree on others without group pile on and porcupines up my arse.

[JAB]

One of the reasons that Scented Nectar says she's staying away is her dislike for things like phpBB (which drives this forum), since she can't easily see which are the new posts without being logged in, whereas it's easy to just jump to the end of a blog thread.

I still don't get it... why can't she scroll down to the end here? It's not like here has the dreaded threading thing which makes that impossible. And if she does log in then she can click the little go to last unread comment feature. If it's the fact that there are lots of forums. well, just join this one, since that's where the periodic table stuff is being continued.

[Gumby]

Long time lurker delurking to let Sacha know that her defense post was excellent. I have been thinking of posting about the same subject for several days and continue to write/delete/write/delete/write/delete. I do not post here for fear that I lack the wit, prose and banter skills to contribute substantively. So I will resort to "what she said". Now back to lurking.

Forums thrive on participation. There are no standards of wit, writing or bantering skills one must meet in order to post here. The only thing required is that you express opinions and are willing to listen to the opinions of others. Really, that's it. So don't hesitate to join in whenever you like. This isn't Pharyngula, you know. What do you think we are? Bullies? :lol:

[CommanderTuvok]

I'm not sure if anyone here has the stomach to watch this, but here is the...

...Don't Feed the Trolls - SkepchickCON/CONvergence panel video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHipqT1 ... re=g-all-u

Warning - Features Greg Laden (ADULTS ONLY)

Having a quick gander at YT stats and comments, it seems a lot of people are negative towards *some* members of the panel. I wonder why? :roll:

[CommanderTuvok]

One of the YT comments I found pertinent and amusing:

Disagree. I do not think the "original sin" of being asked to share coffee is worth god's (Rebecca Watson) condemnation. She then convened an entire ecumenical counsel to try and justify her actions with this silly "Don't Feed the Trolls" panel. Many of those who disagree with her (ie, Thunderf00t, Dawkins) are not trolls and to dismiss us as such is an attempt to avoid the issue: Rebecca Watson was asked to share coffee in an elevator and is still feeling sorry for herself a year later.

TheTorJohnson in reply to Coughlan000 (Show the comment) 14 minutes ago

Mostly right, although Queen Bee attempts to justify her actions began minutes after elevatorgate*. The machinations and planning were well under way...

*Some have suggested the plans began BEFORE shaftgate!

[Dilurk]

One of the reasons that Scented Nectar says she's staying away is her dislike for things like phpBB (which drives this forum), since she can't easily see which are the new posts without being logged in, whereas it's easy to just jump to the end of a blog thread.

I still don't get it... why can't she scroll down to the end here? It's not like here has the dreaded threading thing which makes that impossible. And if she does log in then she can click the little go to last unread comment feature. If it's the fact that there are lots of forums. well, just join this one, since that's where the periodic table stuff is being continued.

Once Lsuoma finishes their move I would strongly recommend moving the entire thread here over to the blog that Lsuoma has set up. An RSS feed dedicated to this one thread would be worth while and much easier to deal with. IMHO.

[Dilurk]

One of the YT comments I found pertinent and amusing:

Disagree. I do not think the "original sin" of being asked to share coffee is worth god's (Rebecca Watson) condemnation. She then convened an entire ecumenical counsel to try and justify her actions with this silly "Don't Feed the Trolls" panel. Many of those who disagree with her (ie, Thunderf00t, Dawkins) are not trolls and to dismiss us as such is an attempt to avoid the issue: Rebecca Watson was asked to share coffee in an elevator and is still feeling sorry for herself a year later.

TheTorJohnson in reply to Coughlan000 (Show the comment) 14 minutes ago

Mostly right, although Queen Bee attempts to justify her actions began minutes after elevatorgate*. The machinations and planning were well under way...

*Some have suggested the plans began BEFORE shaftgate!

Time and time again they conveniently forget that the original source of much of the original disagreement was the 'call out' of a junior atheist without her being given a chance to properly respond to the charges on the same footing. Abbie in one post I read but unfortunately have no time to find, talks about her being 'called out' at a creationist debate and deliberately not being given a chance to respond. (I think this was linked from the "bad form Rebecca Watson" topic/thread)

No one that I know of has ever questioned whether a guy asking a woman if they wanted to have coffee might not make a woman feel uncomfortable, Rebecca is of course entitled to feel that way. It is her body, her situation, she is totally entitled to suggest to others (including men) that they might not want to proposition women in elevators at 3am. We can quibble whether or not it happened or not, at this point it does not matter to me personally if it did or not, what matters to me is RW abused her position to call out verbally another woman without talking with her first. I find that inexcusable.

Oddly I think there is a lot of agreement between the groups if only they'd listen, but they keep trotting out the smoke screens of 'RW gets bad email from atheists.' How does she know they are all atheists? If they are, well, they are children and should be treated as such by laughing at them to their face. I think they have been attempting to control the narrative as the politicians say. At this point I have to ask are they as others have suggested, set up a religion, looking for the controversy for the $ or are they simply not listening? I don't get it.

[Dilurk]

I'm not sure if anyone here has the stomach to watch this, but here is the...

...Don't Feed the Trolls - SkepchickCON/CONvergence panel video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHipqT1 ... re=g-all-u

Warning - Features Greg Laden (ADULTS ONLY)

Having a quick gander at YT stats and comments, it seems a lot of people are negative towards *some* members of the panel. I wonder why? :roll:

Have you read http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogs ... andry.html and seen ironkidd's take on it?

What irritates me to no end is PZ keeps telling people to "listen to the women" and then does not "listen to the women". I don't want to be babied, I want to be treated with respect as an adult for what I do. If PZ and MENZ would listen to one thing it would Don't condescend me "Computers are hard for women you know, let me help you". Don't bloody assume that a woman does not know what they are talking about please. I am so fed up to the neck with this. Stop it with the anti harassment BS, just treat me like an adult. [bLlisten to the women[/b]. Please.

[sacha]

Dilurk - thanks. You don't need me to crown you a Gender Traitor, I think you have done just fine on your own.

Foznik - Please come out of the shadows. I am not even in the same universe when it comes to eloquence, wit, and irony, as many of the others. That should not stop you from joining. The more voices and perspectives, the better. Thank you for your kind words.

[sacha]

Abbie has written. She needed a break from all of this. She deserves as long as she needs.

"I sprung this on everybody pretty much overnight. I didnt even have my own thoughts together. No one here is behaving maliciously-- Only concerned and confused, and that second part is all my fault."

Abbie, there is not a single thing about any of this is your fault.

[Lsuoma]

Abbie has written. She needed a break from all of this. She deserves as long as she needs.

"I sprung this on everybody pretty much overnight. I didnt even have my own thoughts together. No one here is behaving maliciously-- Only concerned and confused, and that second part is all my fault."

Abbie, there is not a single thing about any of this is your fault.

Thanks for posting this Sacha: immediately after the shutdown of Abbie's Periodic Table I had a very brief email exchange with her, and yes, the impression was overwhelmingly that she needed a lot of space and time away from the shit sprayer the certain arseholes had been training on her.

It would be great to see her back here sometime, of course, but over the last day I feel that the momentum is keeping going.

As you say, though, nobody can say with a shred of truth that Abbie has anything to feel bad about or apologize for.

Here's hoping to see her here sooner or later, but no sooner than is good for her...

[Guest]

Ed Brayton had an amusing post yesterday regarding the "Conservapedia" article about him, which focuses primarily on his weight ("Pictures of an overweight Ed Brayton can be found HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE. Currently, there are a number of scientifically sound methods which medical science, nutritional science and exercise science offer which have assisted people in losing weight.")

Seeing how closely this topic corresponds with the ongoing debate about "sexism" Ophelia Benson swooped in with comment #12:

I wonder if they’ve incorporated any of Paula Kirby’s taunts yet.

:roll:

[James Onen]

Dawkins tweets:

Richard Dawkins Foundation is proud to sponsor TAM 2012, which looks like being better than ever: http://tinyurl.com/c5hrgmu . I wish I could go.

I wonder if he thinks TAM 2012 will be better than ever because some people aren't going. If so, I would have to concur :D

[Za-zen]

Dawkins was burned before, at that time i'm Guessing he wrongly assumed the atheist movement was made up of thinkers. He now knows in america its turned into a crazy dogmatic cult

Its a shame that the big hitters won't come out on a Point of principle but completely understandable. What i do hope they realise is that by not coming out they may lose the movement to another agenda.

[CommanderTuvok]

Re: Abbie.

As people have said, Abbie has nothing to be sorry about. She was one of the few who was prepared to stand up to the bullies from the start and allow her forum to be used as a place for dissent. A lot of other places, even though I sense from the vibes of its posters and even owners, shut up shop and said nothing or very little, even though they had complete control over their sites. I'm looking at you, RDF, SGU Forum, JREF, and some others. In the early days, weeks, and months, ERV was literally the David and FfTB the Giant. Now, things are a little more even, and an increasing number of big names have aimed criticism (if not exactly tactic support of the ERV/Slymepit position) at Myers, Queen Bee and the other FTbullies. Laden's recent exit has made them more vulnerable since it exposed their double standards regarding internet bullies and harassment. Getting rid of him was a cover - all his Baboon mates are still patting him on the back and having lunch with him (Watson) and drinking a toast to him (Stefunny).

Long live ERV, long live Abbie, and long live The Slyme Pit in whatever form it takes!

PS - James Onen, good to see you here.

[CommanderTuvok]

I wonder if he thinks TAM 2012 will be better than ever because some people aren't going. If so, I would have to concur :D

Same here, James. At least no-one has to worry about getting into a lift with a certain individual whose name I'd rather not sully my fingers on the keyboard with.

[KiwiInOz]

This is misogyny - not calling people rude words.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/we-cannot-f ... 21pzy.html

[CommanderTuvok]

This is misogyny - not calling people rude words.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/we-cannot-f ... 21pzy.html

How dare you compare this triviality to the "horror" and "abuse" that Rebecca Watson has faced over the last year!!!

;)

[CommanderTuvok]

BTW, the latest likes/dislikes on the Don't Feed the Trolls - SkepchickCON/CONvergence panel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHipqT1 ... re=g-all-u

223 Likes, 276 Dislikes :lol:

Obviously, the Baboon horde need to get over there pronto to fix the damage.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Dilurk said:

what matters to me is RW abused her position to call out verbally another woman without talking with her first. I find that inexcusable.

That , the way she makes everything about her pet subject without bothering to provide any real evidence of it's urgency and, most importantly, the over the top accusation of "parroting misogynist thought" she leveled at Mcgraw. That was so over the top and so intolerant that the real scandal is that she was not booted off the stage.

Dilurk also said:

I think they have been attempting to control the narrative as the politicians say. At this point I have to ask are they as others have suggested, set up a religion, looking for the controversy for the $ or are they simply not listening? I don't get it.

Pharyngula is very proud of it's reputation for disrespect of the religious and wooey and has often been concern trolled about it. The Horde's response to such criticism, which was to make an attempt at debate and then flame and goad, became a tradition. PZ would sometimes disemvowel posts and declare the enemy "too stupid to breathe". The trouble is that this became such a tradition that the Horde got a superiority complex and few stopped to question once a target became tagged. It has become unthinkable to them that they can ever be justifiably criticised as an echo chamber. Frank Hoggle was spot on when he described the disemvowelling and Squid Boy's judgements from on high as telling people who to hate. My suspicion is that RW is manipulating this phenomenon to her own advantage. As for PZ, who the fuck knows. Is he deluded, is he that unaware or just plain immoral?

[Za-zen]

I get what you are saying tuvok.

For the most part the big places have always been dismayed at the low brow nature of fftb, and they've always known or at least since egate that it was an idealogical blowhard. The question really is what the hell could they do about it?!

Thats why i say it is ashame that the big guns haventstuk their necks out in the way that ask an atheist has, and challenge them on their bullshit. I still dont think they will publically. What i do think will happen is a decrease in speaking invitites to the proper skeptic events lie tam, for the crazys. I do not count convergence.

[Dilurk]

BTW, the latest likes/dislikes on the Don't Feed the Trolls - SkepchickCON/CONvergence panel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSHipqT1 ... re=g-all-u

223 Likes, 276 Dislikes :lol:

Obviously, the Baboon horde need to get over there pronto to fix the damage.

Did you notice Thunderf00t has posted a comment?

"FFS what is wrong with these ppl?
READ YOUR 4CHAN MANUAL.
Rule 1 Thou shalt not feed the troll!
Rule 2, see rule 1.
I'm over 10 mins in, and no one has expressed anything that can even approach the bloody obvious wisdom of 4chan.
Thunderf00t 59 minutes ago " He has been upvoted to 13 last I checked.

[Dilurk]

I get what you are saying tuvok.

For the most part the big places have always been dismayed at the low brow nature of fftb, and they've always known or at least since egate that it was an idealogical blowhard. The question really is what the hell could they do about it?!

Thats why i say it is ashame that the big guns haventstuk their necks out in the way that ask an atheist has, and challenge them on their bullshit. I still dont think they will publically. What i do think will happen is a decrease in speaking invitites to the proper skeptic events lie tam, for the crazys. I do not count convergence.

That's because the best thing to do with these people is shun them. They are a tiny but obnoxiously loud group of immature little boys. The sooner they are treated as children the better off we will be.

[Dilurk]

Dilurk said:

what matters to me is RW abused her position to call out verbally another woman without talking with her first. I find that inexcusable.

That , the way she makes everything about her pet subject without bothering to provide any real evidence of it's urgency and, most importantly, the over the top accusation of "parroting misogynist thought" she leveled at Mcgraw. That was so over the top and so intolerant that the real scandal is that she was not booted off the stage.

That's because she is appealing to young men not to adults.

[Horace]

I cannot keep up with everything on this thread and so am only an occasional poster (as I was over at Abbie's).

Three points

-I posted the material below on Laden's blog. It is my position on disputes about gender that we have had in the Atheist world. Please comment on it here and do not post your thoughts on Laden's blog as he was reasonably polite to me by Ftb standards.

I don’t think that the problem is that Ftblogs talks about feminism too much; the problem is that one side (PZ and Watson) will not accept any difference of opinion on this matter.

You cannot expect us to be as certain about the question of how serious a problem sexism is and how to combat it as we are about the non-existence of god. This is also the case for a number of other issues: climate change, race, the question of govt debt, healthcare, gun control…

Free thought blogs is becoming reflexivly left wing/progressive. I do not think that you can assume that an intelligent atheist will be left wing/progressive on every issue.

When you look back at political debate 100 or 200 years ago you will see that often both sides believed things that we now think wrong and argued about questions that we find irrelevant. What are the chances that now, finally, at this particular point in human history either the left or the right are correct on every issue ?

Freethinkers should try to extend their skepticism to both sides of the political scene. We should also be able to differ with each other without rancor.

Best wishes from the slimepit.





-if you want to see what I meant by saying that Laden is polite by Ftb standards see what the Pharyngulites are doing to "Reasonablefellow" on the following thread. These guys are getting crazier and crazier as their behaviour reinforces itself.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... /#comments


#169 on the final page is particularly ironic.


-Hola Munckhouse. Ojala que un dia nos vemos en Bogota.

[Za-zen]

Horace perfectally reasonable points you made.

The baboons are called baboons for a reason, and its because of their behaviour, they are more interested in sucking off those in the imagined heirarchy tht debate...... People with makor problems seeking comfirmation

[Evan]

A banned Pharyngula commenter documents his experience:

https://sites.google.com/site/pzmyersisaliar/

Somehow this does not surprise me.

[Lsuoma]

A banned Pharyngula commenter documents his experience:

https://sites.google.com/site/pzmyersisaliar/

Somehow this does not surprise me.

From the linked doc:

Posted by: PZ Myers | January 2, 2007 8:52 PM
You want to snark at me, that's one thing; you come over here and snark at my daughter, and I call that cowardice.
Bugger off, Ramsey. Go sneer at her to her face, so she can kick you in the balls herself.

Can someone remind me whether cunt kick is worse than kicking some guy in the balls? I kinda forgot...

[Horace]

Latest from the pharyngulites, see below. Check this thread out it is classic pharyngula, everyone is having a collective hatefest.

I got myself banned from there, partly out of solidarity with the rest of you, partly because I so enjoyed doing what "reasonable fellow" is doing to them, and it ate up so much time. I was worried too that interacting with people on pharyngula would affect the way I treated people in real life. You read their postings and you wonder how this affects the way that they treat those around them daily.

8 July 2012 at 6:17 pm
Why not ignore theses idiots? Do they need to be provided a platform so easily?

The answer is easy. The shit speckled troll has shown actions and words that goes along with actions against transgendered people. In fact, a couple of lurkers spoke up to say that his words had a triggering effect on them. There has to be more who also had them but has not spoken up.

We feed the trolls because it is but one small way of showing that their actions will not be tolerated. Also, lurkers that do speak up usually point out that they are happy to see us acting in this way.

It may not be a huge action that will change society for the better but it actually does seem to help out some people.

Also, in my case, sometimes I enjoy taking the piss out of people who so clearly deserve it. That is, when I am not feeling too frustrated to get involved.

But thank you for your concern. I will print it out and place it in the proper receptacle.