Periodic Table of Swearing

[AndrewV69]

“sheesh” yourself ... :-)

Oh FFS!

I just got an idea for a blind date service ... I can just see it, match up a you what with a you know what.

[AndrewV69]

But you could also take a look at the Man Boobz’ “Boob Roll” for additional cases of that. While I think not all of his criticisms hit the nail on the head, enough of them do, I think, to justify the conclusion that there are more than a few crazies on each side ....

BTW... I will look some other time. Right now I am afraid to. *sheesh*

[rayshul]

Actually liking the maths, since it's well within my undergrad mathematics knowledge, haha.

I see that GenerallyFading disccussed the victim mentality earlier - I really agree, if you keep treating people like victims or making them think like victims, there's... never going to be a solution. I don't know if that's victim blaming or victim-enabler blaming. To stop being a victim you have to become empowered. I don't think there's any other way to be a real survivor.

[Tsheo]

I thought he was hired to make Pharyngulalala more about environmental issues? Nope, just more of the same.

Gah. I really hate the "unless you think what we do, and vote the way we say you should, you're not really an atheist/skeptic" thing they've got going on now. No, you can't tell me what to think or how to vote. Fuck that. I believe in freedom of thought, thanks, FTB. :roll:

[sacha]

Sound familiar? (this is about a chemtrail theorist)

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=202

many people who claim to be activists are falling into this trap of delusional obsession, finding dysfunctional comfort in releasing responsibility over their own lives to invisible monsters.

BTW, he is also not a fan of Pussy Riot. Some of you guys should read this methinks:
Western Media’s Pussy Riot Narrative the Most Transparent Example of Organized Manipulation of Public Opinion in History
http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=210

As a side note, I feel is worth noting here is that if Americans were aware that the majority of Russian society were antagonistic toward Pussy Riot, they simply would not care. Americans (this goes for westerners in general, but it is certainly more pronounced in America), on both the left and the right, have developed an paradigm in which they their subjective value system is superior to that of all other cultures on the planet, and thus they feel it is their right, nay, their duty, to force it on everyone else in the world.

[JackRayner]

Don't know if any of y'all are familiar, but there was a debate that a feminist was trying to set up, titled "Has Feminism Gone Too Far?" The original planner started receiving a bunch of hate and threats from feminists, and so she called it off. It's known that it was feminists sending the threats, and yet the popular lie is that it was the MRAs, and it's even spread onto that junk-site "Jezebel". Anyways, here's the lasted [and most telling] update on that;

[youtube]t5ufzpiWbBM[/youtube]

Seriously though, I'm getting to the point where I'm just about done being charitable to any feminist's argument... Why bother?

[franc]

BTW, he is also not a fan of Pussy Riot. Some of you guys should read this methinks:
Western Media’s Pussy Riot Narrative the Most Transparent Example of Organized Manipulation of Public Opinion in History
http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=210

Hyperbolise much? That article is quite frankly crap, including his cited "expert". What I said here is still valid http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... odox#p8485

I don't know what shit he reads, but I have not heard anything in my local media, even in the tabloids, that Pussy Riot was a "feminist" protest.

And if that is "Most Transparent Example of Organized Manipulation of Public Opinion in History" he's proving he's an imbecile that's never ventured out of his mom's basement.

[JackRayner]

And by "lasted", I definitely mean "latest". :?

[Steersman]

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:34 am

...

Rates of victimization by sexual violence vary among ethnic groups. Approximately 1 in 5 Black women (22 percent) and White (18.8 percent) non-Hispanic women, and 1 in 7 Hispanic women (14.6 percent) in the United States have experienced rape at some point in their lives.

In which case one might argue that on average something like 15% of American women have been raped.

I've got several issues with your current source, and it has to do with 1] The ambiguity they display on that little stats page, and 2] Their sources...

Rather hard to come by – proper and credible statistics, I mean. But those ones seem to come from the US Department of Justice and/or the “FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR)”, the latter of which is supposedly based on actual police station reports. Don’t know offhand how you could have more credible ones than those, although the section on “Methodology” raises a few concerns ...

However, from what I’ve been able to piece together, they all seem to come from the NACJD [National Archive of Criminal Justice Data. Haven’t yet been able to figure out how the system works or how to extract the information I’m looking for. Further digging required ....

... *sigh*...

Agreed.

Listen; I know rape happens. And rape is bad. [And drugging others to have your way with them? Pretty despicable.] I'm just not going to sit here and have panic mongering ideologues with an agenda [not necessarily you, definitely your sources] blow smoke up my ass about its actual rate of occurrence...

Maybe I’m a little too quick to accept the statistics, but considering the above sources and the apparently credible numbers – something like 200,000 rapes and sexual assaults per year in the US which is consistent with the numbers used in Justicar’s video and which you apparently accepted – it seems – at least based on the recent discussions about the probabilities for rape – that the previously stated “victimization percentage” of about 15% is not at all implausible. Although I have to admit to becoming a little more skeptical because, in part, I haven’t yet managed to find any data on the actual number of trials and convictions for rape and assault – the proverbial smoking guns. But I’m going to have to do a bunch more digging before coming down on one side of the fence or the other ....

[sacha]

Sound familiar? (this is about a chemtrail theorist)

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=202

many people who claim to be activists are falling into this trap of delusional obsession, finding dysfunctional comfort in releasing responsibility over their own lives to invisible monsters.

BTW, he is also not a fan of Pussy Riot. Some of you guys should read this methinks:
Western Media’s Pussy Riot Narrative the Most Transparent Example of Organized Manipulation of Public Opinion in History
http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=210

As a side note, I feel is worth noting here is that if Americans were aware that the majority of Russian society were antagonistic toward Pussy Riot, they simply would not care. Americans (this goes for westerners in general, but it is certainly more pronounced in America), on both the left and the right, have developed an paradigm in which they their subjective value system is superior to that of all other cultures on the planet, and thus they feel it is their right, nay, their duty, to force it on everyone else in the world.

and then there is this:

The Solution

We must reevaluate the whole thing from the ground up. I do not think that human beings are meant to produce and consume products, I think we are spiritual beings who are meant to find meaning beyond the physical world, particularly in the domains of social interaction and a connection to the natural world. For myself and others who agree with that basic premise, the solution is simply to find a way to make it happen, rather than spending all of our energy complaining about why it isn’t happening.

This needs to happen on the personal, social and spiritual level, and has almost nothing at all to do with politics. The first thing is to make a complete disconnect with the false values of this soulless system of consumerism and general material obsession. The second thing is to find a way to live in balance with those around you, and with the natural world. This can very easily be done, and I am presently doing it. I live in the mountains with indigenous people, in a bamboo hut, and am focusing my energy not on “fighting the NWO” – not on destroying – but on planting trees, developing sustainable farming systems, educating children about the physical and spiritual dangers of Christianity and the economic system – I am focused on creating.

There is nothing at all to stop anyone else from doing exactly this – going back to the root of who and what we are as human beings, and disengaging from the machine that we as a species have created and allowed to run our lives. There is only the illusion of control. There are no CIA agents that are going to come kill me because I live in the mountains and plant vegetables and refuse to consume industrially produced products. When more people begin to take this position, a new society, existing separate from the reigning system, will emerge. We will be free, and our children will be free, and the system can keep doing as it’s doing, and it will end and we will continue...

http://realitysituation.com/

[JackRayner]

Listen; I know rape happens. And rape is bad. [And drugging others to have your way with them? Pretty despicable.] I'm just not going to sit here and have panic mongering ideologues with an agenda [not necessarily you, definitely your sources] blow smoke up my ass about its actual rate of occurrence...

Maybe I’m a little too quick to accept the statistics, but considering the above sources and the apparently credible numbers – something like 200,000 rapes and sexual assaults per year in the US which is consistent with the numbers used in Justicar’s video and which you apparently accepted – it seems – at least based on the recent discussions about the probabilities for rape – that the previously stated “victimization percentage” of about 15% is not at all implausible. Although I have to admit to becoming a little more skeptical because, in part, I haven’t yet managed to find any data on the actual number of trials and convictions for rape and assault – the proverbial smoking guns. But I’m going to have to do a bunch more digging before coming down on one side of the fence or the other ....

Please don't forget about my objections on what actually passes as "rape" for the source they used in all of the bulleted points. [The CDC. I.E: Attempted rape and sex under the influence=rape. I'm a rapist by the latter, which is a definition I flatly *reject*.] And ALSO...that they're using a number for rape AND sexual assault [whose definition is much, much looser, and which undoubtedly covers a much lager number of incidents] and calling it all *rape*. This is very problematic.

What's great about how they get their numbers, is that they do not ask if you've been raped; they ask if you've engaged or had any of the following done to you. A ton of women responding to these surveys are unknowing being marked down as rape victims for admitting to *consensual sex* while under the influence.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I haven't raped anyone today. Yet.

it's only 11:58pm, though...

Let's hear that from Alicja... oh, she's a Gender Traitor, which only means your secrets are safe with her.

How are you feeling?

No, sorry to say, Ali didn't get any yesterday, as I was recovering and didn't have the stamina. Well, that's 2 minutes wasted!

Feeling better today. Those episodes suck, but this one was short enough. Thanks for the concern.

About that Pussy Riot video (hey they did say there was an orgy in there. Never miss a good orgy), I find it pretty weird that when they climbed on the tram, nobody was electrocuted by the catenary, especialy the guitarist with his guitar sticking upward. Was the power out?

[Michael K Gray]

...the function 1-(1-x)^n can be approximated by n*x if x is near zero and n << 1/x...

Eh???
I'd put good money on that what you say is not true.

The problem I find is that most people do not find stats intuitive so taking shortcuts like this abstracts from what is actually being done and generally more mistakes get made (in my experience).

Ah, I see now. The Range was assumed to be artificially restricted to x>=0.
My immediate gut reaction on seeing this supposed equivalence is that it fails spectacularly when x is negative.
(Say x=-0.01 & n=2000; 1 - (-1 + x)^20=-4.39286*10^8 & n*x=-20. Error=-4.39286*10^8. !!!)

You have two mistakes in there, highlighted in red. n=2000 is not << 1/x (=100 in this case), and I don't know what you did to the bit in brackets - whether x is positive or negative, it should still just be (1-x)^n. If you take x=-0.01 and n = 20 (a combination which fits Spence's conditions fairly well), then:
1-(1-x)^n = -0.22
n*x = -0.2
... so whether x is positive or negative, the approximation holds.

(Yes you spotted a transcription error of a superfluous negative sign there.)

OK:- it seems that the error function relies partly on one's definition of "near zero", and "<<".
As these were not defined, I can assume them to be any reasonable interpretation thereof.
Nor was the range of 'n' defined, allowing negative exponents.

As a more realistic example, I offer:
x:=-0.0005 (close enough to zero, one would have thought!)
n:=-20000 {as (1/x=-2) (-20000<<-2 by any stretch of the imagination, unless you omitted the modulus¹ operator!)}

Yet still:
1 - (1 - x)^n = 0.999954
But:
n*x = 10,000!

An error of precisely 42 elebnty bazillion and a bit percent.
Even using numbers that conform EXTACTLY to the requirements, it STILL fails spectacular!!

(Sacha: Now you know how Penny feels in the Big Bang Theory?)
_______________________
¹ Something that my gut-feeling spotted before my analytical mind.

[TedDahlberg]

The only reason I would hope that hell is real, would be because I would be certain the whole lot would be roasting in it for all eternity.

[youtube]dcUB_2g4PQU[/youtube]

[Saint N.]

From the people that brought you "This is Atheism +"

[youtube]kDOfnddpLyI[/youtube]

[Tristan]

(Yes you spotted a transcription error of a superfluous negative sign there.)

OK:- it seems that the error function relies partly on one's definition of "near zero", and "<<".
As these were not defined, I can assume them to be any reasonable interpretation thereof.
Nor was the range of 'n' defined, allowing negative exponents.

As a more realistic example, I offer:
x:=-0.0005 (close enough to zero, one would have thought!)
n:=-20000 {as (1/x=-2) (-20000<<-2 by any stretch of the imagination, unless you omitted the modulus¹ operator!)}

Yet still:
1 - (1 - x)^n = 0.999954
But:
n*x = 10,000!

An error of precisely 42 elebnty bazillion and a bit percent.
Even using numbers that conform EXTACTLY to the requirements, it STILL fails spectacular!!

(Sacha: Now you know how Penny feels in the Big Bang Theory?)
_______________________
¹ Something that my gut-feeling spotted before my analytical mind.

OK, OK - you win (although I'll point out that 1/x = -2000 in your case. But it's a fairly hollow, pedantic victory (the best kind, I know) considering that the topic was statistical probability where n is the number of trials - and therefore must by definition be a positive integer.

[Michael K Gray]

OK, OK - you win (although I'll point out that 1/x = -2000 in your case.

Oops! Mea culpa. Getting sloppy in my old age...

But it's a fairly hollow, pedantic victory (the best kind, I know) considering that the topic was statistical probability where n is the number of trials - and therefore must by definition be a positive integer.

The equation should have made this fact clear by liberal use of the modulus operator.
Petty, pointless and trivial? Absolutely!
But I had to justify my mathematician's immediate 'gut reaction' with some real math.
Mathematician's gizzard-to-brain-nerve should not be brusquely dismissed.
Such 'gut feelings' have guided many a discovery, Fermat with his last 'feeling' not least amongst them.
The same with Einstein's 'feeling' that the æther 'felt a bit wonky'.
If nothing else, it serves to tighten equations such that they satisfy the task required of them.
(Always look for 'corner cases', I say. It has done sterling service in mathematics, as well as algorithmic science.
When I programmed an Australian Naval Vessel's navigation system, I insisted that it traverse around the 0'0' region in the Gulf of Guinea in the armpit of Africa, and then its antipodes above Tuvalu in the Pacific to test the cases of where the hemispheres both changed at the same time. Corner cases. It worked, of course, as I had taken this into account, whereas previous programmers had not.)

[JackRayner]

From the people that brought you "This is Atheism +"

[youtube]kDOfnddpLyI[/youtube]

I love this guy! :clap:

I did my share of truck driving. Mostly while deployed, but enough over here in the states. I'm still friends with some of the men I deployed with. One time I was riding with one of them someplace, and witnesses one of those Pepsi delivery trucks pull off an u-turn: We looked at each other with smiles on our faces. Didn't even need to say a word. So I can really appreciate the skill that goes into driving large vehicles, and the aggravation caused by people on the road that make it more difficult than it needs to be because they are self-centered assholes.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo35 ... d40604.jpg

[Michael K Gray]

Oh, and to whomsoever came up with the term "Jenstown" as the A+Thesim collective Nirvana, a Koala stamp to you, and an early minute.
Truly Inspired.

[Philip of Tealand]

The founder of Atheism Plus speaks!

The talk is approximately 38 minutes, followed by Q&A. A mention of Justin Vacula and a "forum dedicated to attacking us" occurs around the 11-minute mark.

1800 mile flight for a 38 minute talk that could have easily, without question, been delivered via Skype.

A† environmentalism in action!

But Abbie - surely she has to go in order to accumulate enough DRAMAAAA in order to write more on her blog...which she quit for almost a week and promised never to come back to...!

Drama outweighs environmentalism

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun:

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo35 ... d40604.jpg

Should have been the reverse, in fact. Dumb me!

[Michael K Gray]

Drama outweighs environmentalism

What is the official SI Unit for "Drama"?
A "Shakespeare"? an "Ophelia"? a "ReGreta"? a milliMyers?

[Philip of Tealand]

Or this one:
https://pretendbian.wordpress.com/2012/ ... m-reality/

These insane MALES are trying to erase us, women. They are actively working night and day to ERASE us from our shared language, from our laws, from the face of the earth.

They’re working night and day to erase our uteri.

They’re working night and day to erase our vaginas.

They’re working night and day to erase our breasts.

They’re working night and day to erase our vulvas.

They’re working night and day to erase our menstruation.

They’re working night and day to erase our childbirth.

They’re working night and day to erase our mothering.

They’re working night and day to erase our lactation.

They’re working night and day to erase our clitorises.

They’re working night and day to erase our bones.

They’re working night and day to erase our blood.

They’re working night and day to erase our genes.

They’re working night and day to erase our girlhoods.

They’re working night and day to erase our shared experiences with other women, our sisterhood, our empathy with females world-wide.

They’re working night and day to erase our female experiences.

They’re working night and day to erase our REALITY.

They’re working night and day to erase our EXISTENCE.

They are insisting that everyone on earth participate in their “gender” insanity, that half the human race be ERASED in order to pretend that all we are is an idea in some mentally disturbed man’s brain, his delusional fantasies about “subconsious gender” — that all we are is a PART of his unconscious.

Are you paying attention, women? Are you listening? Are you awake?

Fight back against this insanity before there’s nothing left to fight for.

*sheesh*

Fucking hell - when am I going to find time to do all THAT??

[Michael K Gray]

Fucking hell - when am I going to find time to do all THAT??

A motivation to invent a working reTARDIS.

[Steersman]

...the function 1-(1-x)^n can be approximated by n*x if x is near zero and n << 1/x...

Eh???
I'd put good money on that what you say is not true.

The problem I find is that most people do not find stats intuitive so taking shortcuts like this abstracts from what is actually being done and generally more mistakes get made (in my experience).

....

As we were talking about probabilities – the ratio of the number of individuals raped to the entire population [246,000 to 300 million = 0.00082] – x had to be a positive number between 0 and 1. And, as Tristan pointed out, the discussion was based on the number of years over which the total number of individuals who were raped was to be accumulated – 20 in the original case described. Which then translates into the number of trials – a positive integer greater than 1.

In which case, bringing in “the modulus operator”, negative probabilities and a negative number of trials [imaginary ones perchance?] qualifies, I would say, as a triumph of bafflegab, obfuscation and outright bullshit.

But then again, maybe all of that was due to you not actually reading my posts because they were hidden ....

[JackRayner]

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun:

[img]*expunged*[/img]

*HISS*

Put that thing behind a Trigger Warning gate or something next time! :x

[Philip of Tealand]

Drama outweighs environmentalism

What is the official SI Unit for "Drama"?
A "Shakespeare"? an "Ophelia"? a "ReGreta"? a milliMyers?

Good question, Shakespeare is obviously out, he wrote better drama in his sleep than anything McWrong can conjure up today

An Ophellia (Aka Nanny) but then again any drama created is not about you, its all about her!

A ReGreta is far too angry and you'll find yourself banning things far too easily so no more drama can be created

MilliMyers - nope, out of the question, the above already have his balls near the paper shredder, he does as they command


I'm thinking a "Watson" is a good measure - that splits atheist communities with few words - "Guys, don't do that!" is a great example where once there was a molehill of atoms that has now become Mount Everest

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Polls show that 97% of statistics are made up bullshit.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun:

[img]*expunged*[/img]

*HISS*

Put that thing behind a Trigger Warning gate or something next time! :x

Sorry :oops:

[Steersman]

Polls show that 97% of statistics are made up bullshit.

I guess then that the poll you refer to is among the other 3% ....

But while I’ll agree that statistics can certainly be misused – as might even be the case with those on the incidence of rape – it seems that the benefits derived from the discipline and the science are pervasive if not profound ....

[Spence]

(Yes you spotted a transcription error of a superfluous negative sign there.)

OK:- it seems that the error function relies partly on one's definition of "near zero", and "<<".
As these were not defined, I can assume them to be any reasonable interpretation thereof.
Nor was the range of 'n' defined, allowing negative exponents.

As a more realistic example, I offer:
x:=-0.0005 (close enough to zero, one would have thought!)
n:=-20000 {as (1/x=-2) (-20000<<-2 by any stretch of the imagination, unless you omitted the modulus¹ operator!)}

Yet still:
1 - (1 - x)^n = 0.999954
But:
n*x = 10,000!

An error of precisely 42 elebnty bazillion and a bit percent.
Even using numbers that conform EXTACTLY to the requirements, it STILL fails spectacular!!

Yes, n must be a positive integer and it is easy to follow the maths through to see where the approximation fails. If n is -2, the binomial expansion is the same but ends up on the denominator:

1-(1-x)^n = 1- 1/(1-2x+x^2)

Now it still holds that x^2 is small wrt to the rest of the polynomial so this bit still works, but the approximation requires the "1-1" to cancel out, which doesn't work for negative n - so the approximation fails here. This is why Tristan's example works with negative x (although this is equally unphysical in our example) but negative n gives the wrong answer.

So n must be a natural number, which as Tristan correctly notes, are the only values for n that have physical meaning in this case; the approximation is valid for this application but I would say still best avoided...

[DownThunder]

Fucking hell - when am I going to find time to do all THAT??

Greetings fellow transchillgirl, let us take revenge upon ciswymynkynd for denying us our right to lactate!

[Michael K Gray]

So n must be a natural number, which as Tristan correctly notes, are the only values for n that have physical meaning in this case;

Quite, but this is an assumption that the equation fails to take into account. That was my immediate reaction, at least.

the approximation is valid for this application but I would say still best avoided...

Exactly. I agree with this advice 100%. With todays 'pooters, calculators etc, why approximate at all, ever?
Packages such as Mathematica & its clones can visualise the exact equations, in both the real and imaginary realms with pin-point accuracy.
Approximations are for quick rules-of-thumb mental-calculations only, these days.

(I recently archived my multiple-bay compactus of books that I have not viewed in the last 24 months, into long-term storage.
Amongst them were 3 books of Log-tables, 4 figure, 5 figure & cetera. Museum pieces now, but once mighty work-horses! I have thrown-out most of my old slide-rules, including a 'spiral' one that had greater accuracy than my others.)

[Michael K Gray]

Fucking hell - when am I going to find time to do all THAT??

Greetings fellow transchillgirl, let us take revenge upon ciswymynkynd for denying us our right to lactate!

Yes Loretta.
[youtube]sFBOQzSk14c[/youtube]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Polls show that 97% of statistics are made up bullshit.

I guess then that the poll you refer to is among the other 3% ....

But while I’ll agree that statistics can certainly be misused – as might even be the case with those on the incidence of rape – it seems that the benefits derived from the discipline and the science are pervasive if not profound ....

Steersman, oh my Steersman:

Buy a sense of humour.

[barkbarkwoof]

The raw data for the National Crime Victimization Survey are available via NACJD. The raw set breaks down rape vs. sexual assault into separate variables.

In the DS4 incident data set, V4094 records rape, V4095 records attempted rape and V4096 records sexual assault. V4241 and V4256 can be used to crosstab to find rapes perpetrated by attackers unknown to the victim.

Unfortunately, downloading the data requires registration, the DS4 data set is 50MB, and the survey is weighted. Calculating the rate of stranger rape from the data available is nontrivial and would require either access to statistics software ($$$$$) or a spreadsheet and a fair bit of skill.

[franc]

Steersman, oh my Steersman:

Buy a sense of humour.

I uncollapse a comment every now and then to see if I overreacted hiding it all. I didn't.

[James Onen]

FTB have, unintentionally, created a lot of MRAs :lol:

http://rationalugandan.files.wordpress. ... orgate.jpg



I personally also de-converted from feminism after Elevatorgate. Prior to that, I had never really given the issue much thought. Elevatorgate forced me to critically scrutinize feminism. It would appear that this has been the case for many other people.

Thanks, PZ Myers. Thanks, Skepchick... for helping us see the light.

[TedDahlberg]

Drama outweighs environmentalism

What is the official SI Unit for "Drama"?
A "Shakespeare"? an "Ophelia"? a "ReGreta"? a milliMyers?

Good question, Shakespeare is obviously out, he wrote better drama in his sleep than anything McWrong can conjure up today

An Ophellia (Aka Nanny) but then again any drama created is not about you, its all about her!

A ReGreta is far too angry and you'll find yourself banning things far too easily so no more drama can be created

MilliMyers - nope, out of the question, the above already have his balls near the paper shredder, he does as they command


I'm thinking a "Watson" is a good measure - that splits atheist communities with few words - "Guys, don't do that!" is a great example where once there was a molehill of atoms that has now become Mount Everest

Drama should be measured in Llamas, surely? A Watson is too big to be useful; in the high kilollamas at least but almost certainly exceeding a megallama. 1 llama is defined as equivalent to the drama generated when a teenager shouts "I hate you and I wish I'd never been born" at their parents.

[somedumbguy]

Here is an interesting post from Maryam Namazie, an atheist who left Iran, works to stop Sharia Law in Britain, and founded "Iran Solidarity".

She is a person who has done the real work and taken real risks of fighting oppression. Watch as she calls bullshit.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamaz ... -revisted/

Atheism Plus revisted

I did say I would write more on Atheism Plus and feel I should given the various comments I have received. This will be my last post on this for now.

I registered my support for Atheism Plus after reading the FAQs on its official website. I won’t be calling myself an Atheist Plus but I thought it important to support an initiative that is recognising the links between atheism and social justice.

As I said before, I don’t see the creation of Atheism Plus as necessarily divisive.

...

Having read beyond the FAQs, though, I must now in all honesty add that whilst I still fully support the aims of Atheism Plus, good aims and intentions are not always enough. How the aims are promulgated and carried out matter too.

In the debate that has ensued, the thing that most comes to mind is the bigoted notion that all “old, white men” are privileged and not concerned with social justice. [The opposing notion that all “white women” are "whiners" is similar.] Particularly those concerned with social justice should know that this is not necessarily the case for a number of reasons, especially class. Even so, I would consider as an ally many “privileged old, white, men” who defend secularism and equality and not as an ally many “minority women” who defend sharia.

Building social movements that can improve our lot is not as much about identity, colour, gender, sexuality, and even privilege as it is about politics and choice.

[Dick Strawkins]

FTB have, unintentionally, created a lot of MRAs :lol:

http://rationalugandan.files.wordpress. ... orgate.jpg



I personally also de-converted from feminism after Elevatorgate. Prior to that, I had never really given the issue much thought. Elevatorgate forced me to critically scrutinize feminism. It would appear that this has been the case for many other people.

Thanks, PZ Myers. Thanks, Skepchick... for helping us see the light.

James, the issue I would take with your current stance is that it doesn't take into account the case of "dictionary feminism".
Dictionary feminism is the basic one line description of feminism that most people will give if asked to define it. It goes something like: "feminism is the call for women to be given equal treatment in terms of job and wage opportunities, employment and other basic human rights."
In other words it is a description for humanism as applied to women, and as such it's the sort of stance that most people, whether MRAs or otherwise, accept.

Now I realize the problem is that your opposition to feminism doesn't entail an opposition to the "dictionary feminism" I've just described and, instead, is really an opposition to political feminism (patriarchy theory, rape culture, male privilege, etc), but I think it's worth noting, just in case you are accused of being in favor of withholding basic human rights from women.

[barkbarkwoof]

Drama should be measured in Llamas, surely? A Watson is too big to be useful; in the high kilollamas at least but almost certainly exceeding a megallama. 1 llama is defined as equivalent to the drama generated when a teenager shouts "I hate you and I wish I'd never been born" at their parents.

Elevators.

One elevator worth of drama is defined as enough drama to double a blog's ad impressions for one year.

[Dick Strawkins]

Here is an interesting post from Maryam Namazie, an atheist who left Iran, works to stop Sharia Law in Britain, and founded "Iran Solidarity".

She is a person who has done the real work and taken real risks of fighting oppression. Watch as she calls bullshit.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamaz ... -revisted/

Atheism Plus revisted

I did say I would write more on Atheism Plus and feel I should given the various comments I have received. This will be my last post on this for now.

I registered my support for Atheism Plus after reading the FAQs on its official website. I won’t be calling myself an Atheist Plus but I thought it important to support an initiative that is recognising the links between atheism and social justice.

As I said before, I don’t see the creation of Atheism Plus as necessarily divisive.

...

Having read beyond the FAQs, though, I must now in all honesty add that whilst I still fully support the aims of Atheism Plus, good aims and intentions are not always enough. How the aims are promulgated and carried out matter too.

In the debate that has ensued, the thing that most comes to mind is the bigoted notion that all “old, white men” are privileged and not concerned with social justice. [The opposing notion that all “white women” are "whiners" is similar.] Particularly those concerned with social justice should know that this is not necessarily the case for a number of reasons, especially class. Even so, I would consider as an ally many “privileged old, white, men” who defend secularism and equality and not as an ally many “minority women” who defend sharia.

Building social movements that can improve our lot is not as much about identity, colour, gender, sexuality, and even privilege as it is about politics and choice.

Yes, I thought something like this might happen.
Maryam Namazie is a good friend of Richard Dawkins (just look at her positive words to him on that Al Jazeera Q and A video that also featured out own James Onen.)
You can't delve into Aplus to any depth and not find huge amounts of disparaging words about the likes of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and various other "privileged white" atheists.

There's also the other matter, as discussed on one of the videos posted earlier today on this board, that of class.
Namazie is politically a communist. Despite various accusations of cultural marxism being thrown at Aplus I don't think it is correct to see them in the same light at all. Aplus advocates are not communists, they are poseurs.
They don't have any sympathy for the working class - just look at Ophelia Benson, complaining when a "smelly" poor person sat close to her on the bus, or complaining about people using words that are part of the everyday (non-sexist!) vocabulary of the working class (as "cunt" is in the UK and several other locations.) She knows that these are simply example of working class language (as dozens of people have explained it to her) but her interests trump that of those uncouth oiks.

[Gumby]

If the name was hidden, there's simply no way to differentiate the gibberish of the big baboon and his shitlick accomplice -

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... smandmras/

You know that after the Thunderf00t episode, there was no way in hell Peezus would let anyone in who didn't goosestep to FTB/A+ radfem dogma. Especially someone he lets write on his own blog.

[Michael K Gray]

Drama should be measured in Llamas, surely? A Watson is too big to be useful; in the high kilollamas at least but almost certainly exceeding a megallama. 1 llama is defined as equivalent to the drama generated when a teenager shouts "I hate you and I wish I'd never been born" at their parents.

¡Esta noche presentamos con mucho gusto información interesante acerca de...la llama!
La llama es una quadrupido...
Que vive en los grandos rios como el...Amazonas!
¡Tiene dos orejas, una corazón, una frente y un pico para comer miel!
¡Pero esta provista de aletas para nadarrrrr!
¡Las llamas son mas grande que ranas!
¡Olé! Pero las llamas son peligrosas a su usted ve una llama donde hay gente nadando, usted grita:...¡CUIDADO! ¡LLAMA!

[Dick Strawkins]

If the name was hidden, there's simply no way to differentiate the gibberish of the big baboon and his shitlick accomplice -

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... smandmras/

You know that after the Thunderf00t episode, there was no way in hell Peezus would let anyone in who didn't goosestep to FTB/A+ radfem dogma. Especially someone he lets write on his own blog.

What was the point of that post by Chris Clarke?
I thought he was brought on board by Peezuz to write some more environmentally orientated articles. This current one is like PZ-lite on social justice warrior mode. He complains about MRAs not recognizing evidence and neglects to add any evidence of his own to the entire post. I guess it was more a rant about MRAs in general but it's a silly idea to complain about others not accepting evidence when all you are offering yourself is a whiney anecdote.

[Geoffrey Falk]

Maryam Namazie is a good friend of Richard Dawkins (just look at her positive words to him on that Al Jazeera Q and A video that also featured our own James Onen.)....

Aplus advocates are not communists, they are poseurs.
They don't have any sympathy for the working class - just look at Ophelia Benson....

Even shortly after Elevatorgate, Benson too was still referring to Namazie as a "friend."

Has Ophelia just lost another friend ... or will their shared opposition to Sharia keep them together?

[youtube]xjloX_EvYiI[/youtube]

[Michael K Gray]

Steersman, oh my Steersman:
Buy a sense of humour.

I uncollapse a comment every now and then to see if I overreacted hiding it all. I didn't.

We share the exact same reactions to the flatigious, nugatory, uropygic, fatuous, tedious turd-polishing dullard.

[windy]

Recently, Rebecca Watson posted a select few “threats” on her blog, yet when you really look at them, they’re certainly no worse than the Atheism+’ers themselves do over on their forums and blogs. The majority are simply “you ought to get raped” comments, which, while vile, are certainly not threats that said individual has any intention of actually raping the recipient. See “trolls” above. In fact, there’s this absurd thing that went around their forums where they told people to “go die in a fire” or “have a dead porcupine shoved up their ass”, and in both cases, the Atheism+ crowd denied they were threats because they weren’t specifically saying they were personally going to do anything to the individual, nor were they encouraging anyone else specifically to do anything to the individual. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, so if it’s not a threat when the Atheism+ group does it, it’s not a threat when someone does it toward an Atheism+ member.

Although, of course, Wowbagger got into deep shit with the “fire” “threat” and had to apologize which he commendably did. And even PZ is not immune to belatedly recognizing some writing on the wall in now deprecating porcupine “jokes” – better late than never and all that even if he’s clearer on the letter of the law than the principle.

Are you really that naïve or is it an act? This retconning of the atheist blogosphere is not "better" at all and allows the spiral of stupid to go on indefinitely:

"Anyone who would say/condone X is a horrible hater with nothing positive to contribute!"
"But wait, didn't you say/condone something very similar to X not so long ago?"
(skip a few rounds of denial/excuse)
"Well it turns out I did, but that was not my finest hour / I'm not proud of that / aren't I awesome for admitting it!"

Weak.

[Michael K Gray]

Are you really that naïve or is it an act? This retconning of the atheist blogosphere is not "better" at all and allows the spiral of stupid to go on indefinitely:

"Anyone who would say/condone X is a horrible hater with nothing positive to contribute!"
"But wait, didn't you say/condone something very similar to X not so long ago?"
(skip a few rounds of denial/excuse)
"Well it turns out I did, but that was not my finest hour / I'm not proud of that / aren't I awesome for admitting it!"

Weak.

Apparently, Hitler was forced to say that he "sort-of" regretted some of the excesses of the Holocaust.
So that's alright then by Steersman?
Fuck me with a fish-fork.

[Tsheo]

FTB have, unintentionally, created a lot of MRAs :lol:


I personally also de-converted from feminism after Elevatorgate. Prior to that, I had never really given the issue much thought. Elevatorgate forced me to critically scrutinize feminism. It would appear that this has been the case for many other people.

Thanks, PZ Myers. Thanks, Skepchick... for helping us see the light.

Yes, I would once upon a time happily have called myself a feminist; the word has been entirely hijacked by the victim feminists. I prefer the term humanist now. It's truly equal. Since having a son I've become even more certain that I'm not a 'feminist'. I think the world is more my daughter's oyster than it is my sons, at least in this country. She's more likely to do well in school and get a tertiary education than he is; he's more likely to commit suicide, die in an accident, or die young than she is... women have it pretty damn good in Australia, from what I can see, and where once I'd have thought only negative things about MRAs now I have sympathy for them, though I dislike extremism of any stripe. There are plenty of countries around the world where women lag far far far behind men as far as even the most basic of rights are concerned, but humanism still has that covered too. I don't see how 'feminism' is necessary.

What was the point of that post by Chris Clarke?
I thought he was brought on board by Peezuz to write some more environmentally orientated articles.

This! Obviously, he's just more of the same and the "he's here because I want to focus on the environment" was meaningless.

[DownThunder]

FTB have, unintentionally, created a lot of MRAs :lol:

http://rationalugandan.files.wordpress. ... orgate.jpg



I personally also de-converted from feminism after Elevatorgate. Prior to that, I had never really given the issue much thought. Elevatorgate forced me to critically scrutinize feminism. It would appear that this has been the case for many other people.

Thanks, PZ Myers. Thanks, Skepchick... for helping us see the light.

FWIW, ~18months back I was aware of a few different labels for feminism. Equity feminism, gender feminism etc. Naturally I wasnt too keen on the latter, the moderates seemed OK. However, I witnessed how a diverse group of feminist reacted to the en masse slander of males in the atheist and sceptic community. While some may have downplayed the allegations ("oh theyre arent that bad" type of weak defenses), I cannot recall anyone, certainly not any feminist, calling out the mass slander as a form of sexism, as a negative behaviour to be discouraged. Perhaps they were unaware, perhaps on some level they are aware but do not wish to relinquish that form of social control. Compliant males are always handy.

I also notice that feminists and feminism get a seemingly infinite string of "second chances" no matter what they do. For me, the chances are over. Feminists have generally acted like imperialists, they invade others spaces and put themselves in a position of precedence over everyone else.

Then not to long ago I discovered other voices on gender issues like GWW and typhonblue. They represent a light at the end of the tunnel - not to be too dramatic. Yes, there are things associated with MRA that need to be cleaned up, but that is what is happening.

[James Onen]

James, the issue I would take with your current stance is that it doesn't take into account the case of "dictionary feminism".
Dictionary feminism is the basic one line description of feminism that most people will give if asked to define it. It goes something like: "feminism is the call for women to be given equal treatment in terms of job and wage opportunities, employment and other basic human rights."
In other words it is a description for humanism as applied to women, and as such it's the sort of stance that most people, whether MRAs or otherwise, accept.

Now I realize the problem is that your opposition to feminism doesn't entail an opposition to the "dictionary feminism" I've just described and, instead, is really an opposition to political feminism (patriarchy theory, rape culture, male privilege, etc), but I think it's worth noting, just in case you are accused of being in favor of withholding basic human rights from women.

If I was worried about people accusing me of being something that I don't think I am, I wouldn't be commenting in the Slyme Pit. This place is supposedly Misogyny Central, after all :) .

Actually, I am skeptical of 'dictionary' feminism as well as gender feminism. Does this mean I don't support equal rights for everyone? No, it doesn't. I support equal rights for all, as well as equal responsibilities and equal obligations for all in lieu of those rights - regardless of distinctions such as race or gender. I think the on-going debate on feminism will be important in squashing the myth that one needs to be a 'feminist' to support these ideals. If it so happens that some people conclude from this that my stance is anti-woman, well, that is their problem.

[James Onen]

Seeing as we're on the topic of 'dictionary' feminism vs. gender feminism...

[youtube]3o-OcTSeVcs[/youtube]

8-)

[The Pelagic Argosy]

Drama should be measured in Llamas, surely? A Watson is too big to be useful; in the high kilollamas at least but almost certainly exceeding a megallama. 1 llama is defined as equivalent to the drama generated when a teenager shouts "I hate you and I wish I'd never been born" at their parents.

¡Esta noche presentamos con mucho gusto información interesante acerca de...la llama!
La llama es una quadrupido...
Que vive en los grandos rios como el...Amazonas!
¡Tiene dos orejas, una corazón, una frente y un pico para comer miel!
¡Pero esta provista de aletas para nadarrrrr!
¡Las llamas son mas grande que ranas!
¡Olé! Pero las llamas son peligrosas a su usted ve una llama donde hay gente nadando, usted grita:...¡CUIDADO! ¡LLAMA!

¿Cómo se llama tu llama?

I like llama as the unit of drama. 5 llamas to you for that, Ted http://st.deviantart.net/badges/llama.gifhttp://st.deviantart.net/badges/llama.gifhttp://st.deviantart.net/badges/llama.gifhttp://st.deviantart.net/badges/llama.gifhttp://st.deviantart.net/badges/llama.gif

[AnonymousCowherd]

all this maths I'm too blond to comprehend is making me hot.

You Chill Galz is always Teh Hawt.

Y U think is many mafs? In 'merka only one maf. Do da, do da.

[Scented Nectar]

Drama should be measured in Llamas, surely? A Watson is too big to be useful; in the high kilollamas at least but almost certainly exceeding a megallama. 1 llama is defined as equivalent to the drama generated when a teenager shouts "I hate you and I wish I'd never been born" at their parents.

Elevators.

One elevator worth of drama is defined as enough drama to double a blog's ad impressions for one year.

I need some measurement equivalents here. How many teenage-hate-you-llamas are in one elevator, would you say? A dozen? A hundred?

[AnonymousCowherd]

And she apparently corrected the mistake about Galileo “within minutes” of having posted the offending YouTube video.

She may well have more than a few “sins” to “atone” for, but making mountains out of molehills doesn’t seem to reflect terribly well on those doing so. Particularly in comparison to some of the rather more egregious cases in this neck of the woods, notably WoolyBumblebee’s plagiarism ....

The time to correct this is minutes before posting it (or otherwise making a public goose of yourself), not later, after your friends point out that you've made a huge floater.

And what the hell do Wooly's actions have to do with Becky's?

[Michael K Gray]

I need some measurement equivalents here. How many teenage-hate-you-llamas are in one elevator, would you say? A dozen? A hundred?

42, oh cricket.