Periodic Table of Swearing

[Badger3k]

Just found this at Debunking Christianity - http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.c ... se-to.html

It's a bit about "taking back" words like "Slut", "nigga" and "chick". Haven't looked at it that way before. With any luck we'll have a new school librarian and she can get us back our database access so I can look this up (as well as some other topics).

[franc]

Franc,
I have to disagree with your claim that this is not a gender issue. As compelling as Slave Morality theory is, it just doesnt explain

• why the gender participation in this battle is so skewed: Why arent there lots more gender traitors and more importantly why are only so few bitching about men being demonized? (for e.g Even Jean Kazez is happy with thinking of men as Schrodinger's Rapist and living by that rule. I asked her is she's fine if I thought of Women as Scrodinger's Gold Diggers. *crickets*).
• the reason non-losers feel resentment: Not all of them are losers in life.. Uberbaboon, Novella, Brayton, Pigliucci all seem to be succesful and had good reputations.

I contend that this is just natural female-favouring and male-discarding psychology taken to natural limits. Bear with me and watch this whole 7-min video which shows how 'men are invisible' in society.

Astro - we'll have to agree to disagree here. We are both right - if you use a bit of Orwellia's epistemic relativism. It depends if you are interested in the symptoms of disease or the factors in the system that are conducive for the disease to take hold.

Skepticism is a great thing - but for me it does not go far enough. Skepticism only targets the symptoms, e.g. faulty thinking. It does not target the cause, e.g. stupidity. Again I cite Robert Anton Wilson who's insights into stupidity are marvellous -

Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.

Faulty thinking that skeptics debunk is a result of a pre-existing stupidity, i.e. it is a symptom, and only a symptom, of a larger problem caused by a state of pre-existing cognitive dysfunction.

Now you can look at the baboons and see a deranged brand of gender feminist extremism that is resulting in hate mongering and absolute breakdown of moral/ethical principles. But what you see are just symptoms of idiocy in a subset of the community that feels it has been empowered enough to seize the stage, and is entitled to its pound of flesh in retribution for infinite imaginary injustice.

You break this disease down above - which should tell you that the disease is epidemic and not pandemic; i.e. it's prevalence is concentrated in sectors and not demographic wide, nor isolated to a particular demographic. Males are just as likely to be infected as females. Likewise, females are just as likely to be immune as males. It is not fussy. You mention non-losers, they occupy their own category, so lets look at losers first.

I put it to you that every social pigeon hole in existence has its own proportion of those that are losers - those that are intellectually and socially subnormal in comparison to the average. They are non-productive and as a result their non-equality is painfully apparent to them, and they tend to not do very well when compared to their peers as far "entitlements" go. This is the root of the slave re-sentiment, or resentment, that Nietzsche proposes.

In most cases, these losers are incapable of escaping their predicaments. But, occassionally situations arise where they are empowered to escape. This is slave revolt. There are numerous examples - in the past, the Jacobins in revolutionary France; Russian Bolsheviks; Hitler's Sturmabteilung; Mao's People's Liberation Army; Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge - the list is endless. Currently, a great example is the wider islamist movement - the muslim world is full of resentment, as a culture not having achieved anything since the Mongols sacked Baghdad, and this realisation burns in their bowels to the point that the resentment can give rise to abominations like Al Qaeda. In each of these cases, a conduit has opened for these slave moralists to rise up and the results have never been good. In the case of the baboons, a conduit has also opened - the wider secular community is soft, good natured and far too keen to extend the benefit of the doubt to anyone; in other words, they are ripe for abuse and exploitation. The baboons are attempting to seize the day, just like every slave revolt before them.

So... if you look at this from my perspective, I put it to you that gender is irrelevant to the disease, but you are correct if you say gender is relevant to the symptoms.

As for non-losers, they are in positions above the rebelling slaves and tend to fall into two categories -

• the manipulators and exploiters (e.g. Myers), and
• the capitulators (e.g. Novella)

You might want to revisit the Stanford Prison Experiment.

[franc]

You might want to revisit the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Link fail -

http://greylining.com/2011/07/17/the-wa ... xperiment/

[EveryMan]

Don't mention gun control.
The Yanks will go absolutely mental.
It is a pathology with them.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/nedkelly2.jpg

[Lsuoma]

Damn, I'm jealous. I would so love to be able to say "I have a vagina and I'm not afraid to use it".

Anyone here other than me remember all-female band "We've Got a Fuzzbox and We're Gonna Use It"?

[Parge]

I cant get links to work on blogger

You need some content inside those anchor tags and your URLs are malformed:

<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ce/</a><br>
<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... hy/</a><br>
<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... re/</a><br>

[Badger3k]

Re: "trigger warnings" - I just found this in my feed: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonab ... -on-a-pig/

The edited post has this about "triggers":

[EDIT:] Following Libby Anne’s lead, I think I’ll put a trigger warning here. If you are likely to be upset by discussions of sexual violence, please enjoy this baby lynx instead.

Now, are these just given for the terminally stupid? His previous paragraph says

Jared Wilson quoted a bit from a book by Reformed theologian Douglas Wilson, which tried to psychoanalyze rape as a side effect of our rejection of old-fashioned gender hierarchy in sexual relations. The quote has managed to offend damn near everyone.

What part of that says "Don't worry, we won't be talking about rape here"? How stupid do you have to be to not see what is coming? Are we that conditioned to respect the idiots that we have to warn the poor helpless idjits? Seriously? How pathetic are you if you can't read that statement and not get an idea of what is coming?

In a way, it seems to be the same thing as parental warnings. But there are no parents on the internet - not normally (granted, some may have set parental controls or sit with their kids when they get online - but trigger warnings aren't part of parental controls that I am familiar with). Basically, you're saying "Hey, this is for all those who are too young or ignorant to understand what I will be posting, so if you continue, don't whine to me." I guess it could be CYA for the overly-sensitive whiner, a way of trying to prevent arguments in comments.

Still pretty sad that we've come to this as a society.

ETA - I can see having some warnings, like on tv shows where they are looking at some tribe of hunter-gatherers and they give a warning that something will get slaughtered for food - it can be a bit unexpected and not something that many people expect to see. Especially since people may not start the show at the beginning but come in later, or find it by skimming. But who does that on the internet? Do I start reading a blog post in the middle? How many videos and stories of the 4th of July have "trigger warnings for PTSD" since fireworks can cause that? I can only echo Ophelia here with a "I just don't get it". Anybody have a rational reason?

[Badger3k]

I should have added that when I read his post, I couldn't find anything that would set most people off, unless they had some real serious issues - in which case they need professional help, and probably should avoid the internet completely.

Other comments on the world:

The Batman shooting - WTF? How long before it is blamed on (A) atheists, (B) Evolution, and/or (C) liberals (or even (D) Slymepitters)?

Do we need this for FftB? http://www.tannr.com/herp-derp-youtube-comments/ - although to be fair, they do a pretty good job themselves.

Libertarians and PZ - I wonder what Ed Brayton thinks of this? Probably nothing, since he's known and had disagreements with PZ over this issue. I doubt he'd care if he gets tossed under the bus, even if PZ is comparing Ed with MRAs, rape-apologists, etc. I am not sure if Ed calls himself a Libertarian, but I know he shares some of the beliefs (I think he said he's a social libertarian and not an economic, or something like that).

[JAB]

re parental warnings...

OK, don't shoot me, but one of my guilty pleasures is occasionally watching Chelsea Lately on the E! network. So, I like watching train wrecks.

Anyway, before the show they put up a warning something like "the following program contains discussions of a mature nature, parental and viewer discretion is advised". Who are they kidding! Nobody with any discretion watches their whole network. If I had any at that moment I would have gone to bed.

[Parge]

ERMAGERD my baby just stood up for the first time! Because the Slimepit totally wants to know that, hahaha.

Yay! Yes! Now that we've got that out of the way, you're going to need some extra rest for the next couple of years. Nap time isn't just for kids, you know!

[Parge]

My baby got his L plates yesterday. :cry:

Yay! Yes! Now that we've got that out of the way, you're going to need some extra rest for the next couple of years... ;)

[Badger3k]

TAM's is looking brighter!

http://atheiststoday.com/images/pzquote.jpg

Indeed it is. TAM is indeed a lot better off without sanctimonious radfem dogmatists and drama queens.

PZ seems to think the word "asshole" means "any heretic who dares to not conform to our gender identity politics dogmatism." The divide is not a left vs. right politics either as PZ believes. My politcal views are left of centre as are many others who disagree with the FTB/Skepchick radfem dogmas.

Anyone with a JREF login posted that yet? I can imagine the cheering that will be going on in some quarters.

On the "Sexual Harassment at TAM thread" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237174&page=81), Skeptic Ginger makes a good point (quoted in it's entirety):

Originally Posted by xie
Because you fail to educate yourself does not entitle you to my time to do it for you. There are endless blogs, wikis, books, papers, videos, forum posts, tumblrs, tweets, and podcasts that go over these topics.

Your ignorance (this is not accusatory, but ignorance of ANY subject) does not entitle you to my time. .... (this was quoted, now her response)

I do believe, you totally missed the point. Hmmm, should I take the time to clue you in?

Oh why not.

Feminism means so many different things to different people as to be a useless term. Just like people cannot discuss god without establishing a common definition, concepts like feminism have the same problem.

For example, I consider myself very much liberated and I found the elevator incident to be anti-liberating for women. Ladies, do not fear elevators in good hotels in foreign countries at 4 am after you've been in the hotel bar until retiring to your room. Fear stops you from being free. And if a guy hits on you, so what! You have control of the situation. Believing it's the guy who needs to change says you also believe the guy has control.

Now, the fact some women think 'educating' the men to act differently is part of feminism is an opinion, just like my opinion of what best promotes women's wellbeing is an opinion. I like mine better but that's beside the point.

[Badger3k]

Re my last post - I found my password and am registered, but don't have a link to the original comment. Anyone know where that was found?

[jg64]

Damn, I'm jealous. I would so love to be able to say "I have a vagina and I'm not afraid to use it".

Anyone here other than me remember all-female band "We've Got a Fuzzbox and We're Gonna Use It"?

Gosh, that takes me back, Love is the Slug!

[Dilurk]

I should have added that when I read his post, I couldn't find anything that would set most people off, unless they had some real serious issues - in which case they need professional help, and probably should avoid the internet completely.

Other comments on the world:

The Batman shooting - WTF? How long before it is blamed on (A) atheists, (B) Evolution, and/or (C) liberals (or even (D) Slymepitters)?

More likely to be blamed on Republicans.
http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.com/2 ... t-lickers/

I don't blindly always agree with pamshouseblend and certainly Rush Limbaugh is not someone I follow. Apparently Rush Limbaugh has made the claim Batman was influenced by Obama. *sigh*

Do we need this for FftB? http://www.tannr.com/herp-derp-youtube-comments/ - although to be fair, they do a pretty good job themselves.

Libertarians and PZ - I wonder what Ed Brayton thinks of this? Probably nothing, since he's known and had disagreements with PZ over this issue. I doubt he'd care if he gets tossed under the bus, even if PZ is comparing Ed with MRAs, rape-apologists, etc. I am not sure if Ed calls himself a Libertarian, but I know he shares some of the beliefs (I think he said he's a social libertarian and not an economic, or something like that).

Ed Brayton put his own money into that project no? I wonder if PZ put any of his own money into the project, does anyone know? I suspect he must have had. So in that regard, PZ can't throw Brayton out.

[Søren Lilholt]

I'm sorry, I really don't get it. TAM/JREF took an incident of possible harassment seriously, investigated what happened, followed up on the incident with you, and they are still treating you "disrespectfully"? They said that you were in the right for reporting harassment, and that made you feel like you were being blamed for the harassment? I'm asking all of this in the hope that my eyes had just glazed over as I was catching up on all the comments (which is a very strong possibility), and this was a witty parody poking fun at the t-shirt nonsense. Otherwise, why would anyone be upset about an organization handling a case properly? What's stressful about people taking your words seriously? Isn't that what they wanted as a matter of policy?

I wondered if it was a joke myself, but it just seems too banal (and poorly written) to be anything other than real.

So not only does this person waste TAM's time (bless their hearts) with a total non-incident, she has the gall to criticise them despite the fact she is the one who is taking the piss, and they the ones politely humouring her. This person was simply LOOKING for an excuse to complain so she could 'report' it on Skepchick/FtB.

What disgusts me the most though, is that if this person actually WAS to be harrassed at a later date, she will have created for herself the burden of having already cried wolf. Though at this rate, I imagine that by the time the next TAM comes around they will be demanding full female/male segregation along the lines of Saudi Arabia or something, so it won't be an issue. :roll:

[John Greg]

Though at this rate, I imagine that by the time the next TAM comes around they will be demanding full female/male segregation along the lines of Saudi Arabia or something, so it won't be an issue.

Along with rules for no tee-shirts, no buttons, except SurlyRamics of course, and no other incenidary textual referencing of any kind except that which expresses full and unconditional support of Skepchick.org and Lord PeeZus.

[reasonabel]

Re: Periodic Table of Swearing
by Skeeve » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:27 am

I'm seeing "we don't need TAM, we can do our own thing" more frequently. And from the tone, they seem to think their following is so HUGE that it will affect future TAM's. Is there a way to break it to them that there are atheists/skeptics who have never even heard of them? Or that, from what I've seen around the web, they look like the 'bad guys' in this whole affair?

You could ask them how many of them have actually attended a conference in the comments maybe? They do think that they have a vast army of lurkers who agree with them and obviously those lurkers are likely to be conference attendees because, well...

[bhoytony]

Watch the utube link above. Now watch this one

Oh no, don't ever,ever bring up Jessica Slaughter anywhere at any time. That's a whole horrible story that nobody wants to hear again. Even /b/ is sick of that one.

[Søren Lilholt]

Oops - looks like this poor blogger was caught unawares when he dared to venture an opinion on Amy's harassing t-shirt without knowing that FTB is in reality an absurdist comedy with Pythonesque overtones: http://teafueledmadness.blogspot.co.uk/ ... wkins.html

As ever, FfTB fuels its own ridiculousness by alienating...well, pretty much everyone really.

Now the Baboons are ostracising literally anyone who expresses any form of dissent whatsoever, you know they are doomed. Rather like how when a body runs out of food it starts to eat itself, it's only a matter of time before FtB simply caves in on itself. What an amazing, textbook example of totalitarianism in action.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

It has been brought up on ERV before, but if you don't have the time to read the book, watch the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1063669/

Die Well/The Wave.

[Søren Lilholt]

The poster Opelia's quoting here (Corylus) has a point: if Amy had been so distressed and under severe pressure etc., then shouldn't Ophelia actually have not published Amy's statement, even if Amy had actually given her consent? After all, OB would surely have had to have been both as thick as pigshit and unempathic as a pasture cow not to see the potential fallout from this statement. I mean, couldn't she see that it might be potentially triggering for Amy? Especially what with all the 'stress' and 'harassment' Amy has been having to deal with for such a long time.

Unless of course Amy was being a little disingenous in her histrionics - and Ophelia was aware of that.

Anyways, the comment has been screencapped, just in case.

That was my point a couple of days ago. To my mind, Benson showed an abject failure of care in posting Amy's histrionics, and a clear greed for blog sensationalism over and above any duty of care towards a clearly troubled person.

The alternative - that Benson was genuinely blind to how ludicrous the complaint was and how inevitable it would be that Amy would be torn to shreds for it - is almost worse.

[Søren Lilholt]

It has been brought up on ERV before, but if you don't have the time to read the book, watch the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1063669/

Die Well/The Wave.

Looks brilliant!

[Scented Nectar]

Here's an old video of Zomgitscriss's. She recently took it down, saying she can't really back up what she said in it. Funny, since that's the only side of the argument that always cites good, up to date research on why there still remains a pay gap in some fields. The person who mirrored her video thinks maybe her new FfTB friends influenced this deleting. She disappeared it for sure.

"Before She was a Feminist, She was Afeminist. The video PzMyers forced Zomgitscriss to delete?"
[youtube]SaLYczenRGE[/youtube]
from the YouTube channel: AmetDebatesDeCrazies

Here's another YouTuber's video interpretation of Criss becoming an FfTBlogger:

"ZOMGITSCRISS CHANNEL CRASH AND BURN"
[youtube]DUM2RYsGTC4[/youtube]
from the YouTube channel: MoreElenkhos4U

[Scented Nectar]

Here's an interesting article from earlier this month:
http://plus.google.com/1053981015802545 ... MzTJRXDpuh

[AndrewV69]

Sorry, but allow me to call bullshit on that article. First, it's true that there are radical feminists in Sweden and that they occasionally get taken more seriously than is perhaps warranted. Second, the story referenced is, from what I can tell, pulled from a book defending Julian Assange regarding his Swedish legal troubles. Whether or not Assange is guilty of anything he's accused of (I don't know and I don't care one way or the other), he and supporters of his have spent the duration of his fighting extradition to Sweden spreading lies and distortions about the Swedish legal system (no, I'm not claiming our system is perfect, but it's no more imperfect than that of any other Western country, nor more weighted against men). So an unreferenced story from a book with a vested interest in casting suspicions on the legal system it discusses? About as credible as Elevator Guys or Monopod Men. Might have happened, probably didn't happen as told.

I don't mean to rant, I'm just allergic to misrepresentations. There are actual problems to criticise Sweden for, there's no need to invent new ones. I hope I don't come across as some mad patriot, this just happens to be something I feel halfway qualified to comment on.

Thanks for the attempt for clarification.

Now of course, seeing as I do not read or speak Swedish I have to depend on those who do. The recent "sex by surprise" articles about Sweden are not new, but they do fit in with with what I have been hearing about some of your laws for over 25 years, that Sweden has criminalized normal sexual intercourse, with the result that Sweden has an extraordinary number of reported "rape" incidents that beggar all credibility.

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sweden

Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe and one of the highest in the world. According to a 2009 study, there were 46 incidents of rape per 100,000 residents. This figure is twice that of the UK which reports 23 cases, and four times that of the other Nordic countries, Germany and France. The figure is up to 20 times the figure for certain countries in southern and eastern Europe.

When we look for the cause of of the issues we get nothing but misdirection for example:
Sweden tops European rape league
http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/

In Sweden, 46 incidents of rape are reported per 100,000 residents.

The high figures in Sweden can not it seems be explained purely by an increased tendency to report rapes and other more minor sexual offences.

Rape simply appears to be a more common occurrence in Sweden than in the other EU countries studied, the researchers argue.

Over 5,000 rapes are reported in Sweden per annum while reports in other countries of a comparable size amounted to only a few hundred.

The real issue is the Swedisd legal system apparently. There are other sources that help us to understand what is going on rather than the sensational news articles that misdirect and distort the issue.

Erling Hellenäs' Blog
http://erlinghellenas.wordpress.com/201 ... -rape-law/

Penal Code, Chapter 6, Section 1

“A person who by assault or otherwise by violence or by threat of a criminal act forces another person to have sexual intercourse or to undertake or endure another sexual act that, having regard to the nature of the violation and the circumstances in general, is comparable to sexual intercourse, shall be sentenced for rape to imprisonment for at least two and at most six years.

This shall also apply if a person engages with another person in sexual intercourse or in a sexual act which under the first paragraph is comparable to sexual intercourse by improperly exploiting that the person, due to unconsciousness, sleep, intoxication or other drug influence, illness, physical injury or mental disturbance, or otherwise in view of the circumstances in general, is in a helpless state.

If, in view of the circumstances associated with the crime, a crime provided for in the first or second paragraph is considered less aggravated, a sentence to imprisonment for at most four years shall be imposed for rape.

If a crime provided for in the first or second paragraph is considered gross, a sentence to imprisonment for at least four and at most ten years shall be imposed for gross rape. In assessing whether the crime is gross, special consideration shall be given to whether the violence or threat was of a particularly serious nature or whether more than one person assaulted the victim or in any other way took part in the assault or whether the perpetrator having regard to the method used or otherwise exhibited particular ruthlessness or brutality.” (Chapter 6 of the Swedish Penal Code 1962:70

Analysis
I will simplify the analysis by only considering a few cases, the cases where there is some kind of violence or a helpless state of sleep, and some kind of sexual act. This gives a matrix of four cases.

The violence necessary is stated like this “ett betvingande av den andres kroppsliga rörelsefrihet” (Prop 2004/05:45), which means you hold someone so that her possibilities to move freely is limited or move some part of her by force. It could be illegal even if she doesn’t resist.

The sexual act could be penetration of the womans vagina by the mans sex, which would give a normally aggravated crime, or that the mans genitals only touches the womans genitals, which would give a less aggravated crime (RH 2010:6).

The less aggravated crime would give a sentence of up to four years of prison. The normally aggravated crime would give a sentence of two to six years in prison.

In many cases word stands against word. In case the court has no reason not to believe the woman, it will (Newsmill:Pelle Billing). The more serious the abuse, the higher the compensation.

Examples

An example of a less aggravated crime is that the mans genitals touches the womans when she is asleep.
An example of a normally aggravated crime is that the mans sex penetrates a womans vagina when she is asleep.
An example of a less aggravated crime is that the mans genitals touches the womans when he is holding her in some way. She doesn’t have to resist.
An example of a normally aggravated crime is that the mans sex penetrates a womans vagina when he is holding her in some way. She doesn’t have to resist.

Sentences
Touching the genitals of a woman that you are holding steady or who is asleep with your genitals can give up to four years in prison.
Having sex with a woman that you are holding steady or who is asleep when you start can give two to six years in prison.

Summary
As we can see the line between normal sex and rape is subtle or non-existent, the sentences are long, the compensations high and there doesn’t have to be any crime, it’s enough that the court believes the woman when she says there was one.

It is quite clear to me that any man who has sex with a woman in Sweden is at risk. If I was a Swedish man looking to get married and have children, I think I would be looking outside the country.

[ERV]

I'm sorry, I really don't get it. TAM/JREF took an incident of possible harassment seriously, investigated what happened, followed up on the incident with you, and they are still treating you "disrespectfully"? They said that you were in the right for reporting harassment, and that made you feel like you were being blamed for the harassment? I'm asking all of this in the hope that my eyes had just glazed over as I was catching up on all the comments (which is a very strong possibility), and this was a witty parody poking fun at the t-shirt nonsense. Otherwise, why would anyone be upset about an organization handling a case properly? What's stressful about people taking your words seriously? Isn't that what they wanted as a matter of policy?

I wondered if it was a joke myself, but it just seems too banal (and poorly written) to be anything other than real.

So not only does this person waste TAM's time (bless their hearts) with a total non-incident, she has the gall to criticise them despite the fact she is the one who is taking the piss, and they the ones politely humouring her. This person was simply LOOKING for an excuse to complain so she could 'report' it on Skepchick/FtB.

What disgusts me the most though, is that if this person actually WAS to be harrassed at a later date, she will have created for herself the burden of having already cried wolf. Though at this rate, I imagine that by the time the next TAM comes around they will be demanding full female/male segregation along the lines of Saudi Arabia or something, so it won't be an issue. :roll:

Me, 7-19-2011 on a murdered thread:

The serious experience that you’ve had, and those like it, are made more socially acceptable if all of those more minor experiences are let go without comment.

No, the serious experiences I had were complicated due to little girls and boys crying “WOLF!” with sexual violence. That is not a hypothetical maybe, THAT HAPPENED. There was no criminal prosecution of one of my perps because the cop said ‘So what?’ He assumed I was pulling a ‘OMFG HE ASKED ME OUT AND HE WAS UGLY!!! OMG WHAT IF HE RAPES ME??? OMG I WAS SO UNCOMFORTABLE!!!’ and he closed the file.

But again, my experiences dont matter. Im WRONG.

You all are the experts, here.

They have been crying WOLF for the past fucking year. It doesnt just hurt them, it hurts all women, and it is behavior like theirs that has ALREADY hurt me.

[tachikoma]

The alternative - that Benson was genuinely blind to how ludicrous the complaint was and how inevitable it would be that Amy would be torn to shreds for it - is almost worse.

Given how Benson reacted to the "threatening letter", that was my interpretation from the very beginning.

[Lsuoma]

The wagon-circling continues - someone's nym from a post of Brayhorse's blog:

http://slymepit.com/staticimgs/sc20120720.jpg

[tachikoma]

On the "Sexual Harassment at TAM thread" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237174&page=81), Skeptic Ginger makes a good point...

The next two comments are also good.

Because you fail to educate yourself does not entitle you to my time to do it for you. There are endless blogs, wikis, books, papers, videos, forum posts, tumblrs, tweets, and podcasts that go over these topics.

I think you need to contextualize the post you are responding to. Often times instead of addressing an argument in question people will find a reason to be dismissive. You don't have to answer anything but understand that to do so isn't skeptical. It isn't thinking critically. It is also patronizing and boorish.

I've always disliked the "I have no obligation to educate you!" response to any inquiries for clarification that is endemic to online feminist and social justice spaces and is starting to spread to other communities. Surely, if you want people to accept your ideas you should try to explain them?

I consider myself a feminist. However I don't believe that excludes me from flirtation or the questionable not in best taste joke. I haven't been to TAM (shame on me, I know) but I have met a number of people on this site and I identify strongly with the atheist community. It pains me that this elevator story has received national attention. I believe atheist men are no more sexist than any other subculture. I belong to the subculture of Giants football, Yankees baseball, Sondheim musicals, particle physics... and others. Men in these subcultures are more likely to be sexist than atheists.

One incident in the early morning hours on an elevator that didn't include groping, touching or even crass language. A clumsy flirtation that has been blown way over proportion has been used to define men of an atheist persuasion and I am not happy about it. I don't believe it is fair or true.

I hope this story that has hurt how the public views atheists gets played out before next year. We don't need another year of this.

[Tigzy]

Oops - looks like this poor blogger was caught unawares when he dared to venture an opinion on Amy's harassing t-shirt without knowing that FTB is in reality an absurdist comedy with Pythonesque overtones: http://teafueledmadness.blogspot.co.uk/ ... wkins.html

As ever, FfTB fuels its own ridiculousness by alienating...well, pretty much everyone really.

Now the Baboons are ostracising literally anyone who expresses any form of dissent whatsoever, you know they are doomed. Rather like how when a body runs out of food it starts to eat itself, it's only a matter of time before FtB simply caves in on itself. What an amazing, textbook example of totalitarianism in action.

Indeed. And the problem with those who suppress dissent is that they are given meagre opportunity to view any examination of themselves from an outside party. Inevitably, they take the lack of dissent to mean that what they say is therefore worthwhile and important. This leads them to take themselves very seriously indeed - and when an inevitable slip-up occurs, and no-one is there to call them on it, they presume no slip-up has occurred. Pretty much inevitably, the totalitarian becomes a buffoon - and the buffoon truly can't understand why everyone else is laughing at them, because they've already proved to their own satisfaction that what they say is worthwhile, important and serious. And thus the buffoonery only entrenches itself deeper. It always goes from being a vicious cabaret to an absurdist comedy (though no less vicious for that).

This is why, in North Korea for example, they have empty streets with police directing imaginary traffic and nominally Atheist leaders whose births were heralded by magical portents in the sky. This was why Stalin never got it wrong about the harvest, despite what the past said.

It probaly goes to explain why certain of the baboons are still having difficulty with Freethoughtblahgs too.

[Tigzy]

That's odd. I posted a comment on Rock Beyond Belief, and it's gone straight into moderation - even though I've never posted there before. I'm guessing I must be on some sort of blacklist on FftB; does anyone know if this blacklist applies to all the blogs there?

[ERV]

That's odd. I posted a comment on Rock Beyond Belief, and it's gone straight into moderation - even though I've never posted there before. I'm guessing I must be on some sort of blacklist on FftB; does anyone know if this blacklist applies to all the blogs there?

First time commentors are on moderation at ERV and WEIT, Im assuming other places can turn on something similar.

[Tigzy]

Ah right.

I don't think my prospects on Rock Beyond Belief look, um...all that good then.

[Tigzy]

Um, no, they don't: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondb ... ent-102493

[disumbrationist]

AndrewV69

Sweden has criminalized normal sexual intercourse, with the result that Sweden has an extraordinary number of reported "rape" incidents that beggar all credibility.

You need to show a difference in number of convictions, not just a number of reports. Normal sex isn't criminalised unless it can actually be successfully prosecuted.
An explanation, see here, where they also note:

And it is not only in the area of rape where these differences are noticeable. Sweden stands out within the entire area of crimes against the person in particular, because the registration of crime is more extensive than in the majority of other countries in Europe. This forms the background to, for example, the fact that ten times as many cases of assault are registered in Sweden as in Greece.

In short, thay say it's an artefact of the culture and the legal system. The actual risk to someone who chooses to have sex in Sweden is better represented by the risk of a false claim leading to actual harassment by police or a conviction. Those data would be more meaningful than simply the number of reported rapes.

[Søren Lilholt]

Um, no, they don't: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondb ... ent-102493

How old is 'skeptifem'? 6?

To say simply that "Hugh Hefner hates women" is such a babyishly black-and-white statement that it doesn't even deserve the term 'oversimplification'. There are plenty of problems to be discussed here, but I'm sure as far as Hefner is concerned, he loves women!

[Søren Lilholt]

Indeed. And the problem with those who suppress dissent is that they are given meagre opportunity to view any examination of themselves from an outside party. Inevitably, they take the lack of dissent to mean that what they say is therefore worthwhile and important. This leads them to take themselves very seriously indeed - and when an inevitable slip-up occurs, and no-one is there to call them on it, they presume no slip-up has occurred. Pretty much inevitably, the totalitarian becomes a buffoon - and the buffoon truly can't understand why everyone else is laughing at them, because they've already proved to their own satisfaction that what they say is worthwhile, important and serious. And thus the buffoonery only entrenches itself deeper. It always goes from being a vicious cabaret to an absurdist comedy (though no less vicious for that).

And the wonderful thing is it's all documented, from start to finish!

[Tigzy]

Skeptifem is as mad as Mozart's wig. I think (though I can't be sure, because it's quite difficult to tell the individual lunatics apart over there) she was the one I found on Thunderf00t's blog, who prounounced that I was pursuing a personal vendetta on the basis of about two posts disagreeing with her.

[CommanderTuvok]

...and for all of this talk concerning getting women involved in the movement, it was quite interesting to see him (and others) being quite unwelcoming to Edwina Rogers! Listen to the women, PZ! Yes, but isn't the right answer!

PZ Myers: LISTEN TO THE WIMMEZ.....BUT ONLY IF I APPROVE OF THEM FIRST!!! PZ has to personally vet women before the Baboon Tenko Square.

[CommanderTuvok]

Anyone here other than me remember all-female band "We've Got a Fuzzbox and We're Gonna Use It"?

Oh yes! I certainly recall the leader singer. But their music was shit.

[Dilurk]

Skeptifem is as mad as Mozart's wig. I think (though I can't be sure, because it's quite difficult to tell the individual lunatics apart over there) she was the one I found on Thunderf00t's blog, who prounounced that I was pursuing a personal vendetta on the basis of about two posts disagreeing with her.

They did the same thing to Blu, he then went on to proclaim Blu mentally unbalanced.I knew PZ was a Dr. but I wasn't aware he was also a medical doctor. franc has all of this documented http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Freet ... s_timeline

Careful, you'll get the diagnosis too.

[Dilurk]

Ah right.

I don't think my prospects on Rock Beyond Belief look, um...all that good then.

[JG Edit: Please dude, no escalation here. I delete this shit from both sides.]

No surprise.

[Gumby]

Um, no, they don't: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondb ... ent-102493

How old is 'skeptifem'? 6?

To say simply that "Hugh Hefner hates women" is such a babyishly black-and-white statement that it doesn't even deserve the term 'oversimplification'. There are plenty of problems to be discussed here, but I'm sure as far as Hefner is concerned, he loves women!

Of course, skeptifems says that because of his magazine and his personal life. He doesn't portray women exactly the way rage-fems want, so in skeptifem's stunted mind, he "hates" women. It's the same sort of agenda-warped thinking that compels fundamentalist Christians to tell non-Christians they "hate God" simply because they don't believe in the Christian god.

[Gumby]

Skeptifem is as mad as Mozart's wig. I think (though I can't be sure, because it's quite difficult to tell the individual lunatics apart over there) she was the one I found on Thunderf00t's blog, who prounounced that I was pursuing a personal vendetta on the basis of about two posts disagreeing with her.

They did the same thing to Blu, he then went on to proclaim Blu mentally unbalanced.I knew PZ was a Dr. but I wasn't aware he was also a medical doctor. franc has all of this documented http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Freet ... s_timeline

Careful, you'll get the diagnosis too.

Ironically, the Horde will jump all over people for making Internet mental health diagnoses. They're going batshit on this very issue on PZ's Batman movie shooting thread. You're not allowed to call anyone "unbalanced", "mentally ill", "crazy" or "insane", when there has been no documented psychiatric evaluations. They even defended Dennis Markuze that way. But someone disagrees with PZ and the Horde, as Blu did? Oh, well of course, mentally unbalanced.

[Gumby]

Ah right.

I don't think my prospects on Rock Beyond Belief look, um...all that good then.

[JG Edit: Please dude, no escalation here. I delete this shit from both sides.]

No surprise.

Justin's under orders from PZ ya know.

Are there any blogs on FtB that don't censor? (other than Comrade Physioproffe that is...)

[Tigzy]

Skeptifem is as mad as Mozart's wig. I think (though I can't be sure, because it's quite difficult to tell the individual lunatics apart over there) she was the one I found on Thunderf00t's blog, who prounounced that I was pursuing a personal vendetta on the basis of about two posts disagreeing with her.

They did the same thing to Blu, he then went on to proclaim Blu mentally unbalanced.I knew PZ was a Dr. but I wasn't aware he was also a medical doctor. franc has all of this documented http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Freet ... s_timeline

Careful, you'll get the diagnosis too.

Blimey - they don't do things by halves, do they?? Ironically enough, I think the two posts over which I was deemed as pursuing a personal vendetta involved Rebecca Watson.

Rebecca Watson is becoming to the FTB crowd what Mohammad is to Muslims. I think there should be a national Draw Rebeccca day.

[John Greg]

How old is 'skeptifem'? 6?

skeptifem is a real work of art. She's an angry pitbull-hating ragingly anti-porn misandrist radfem who worships Andrea Dworkin; who wants to be Andrea Dworkin. Yet she is straight -- at least, she claims to be straight, and claims to have a boyfriend; I really, honestly, for the life of me cannot imagine what kind of person her supposed boyfriend is, or what kind of emotional abuse the poor sap must suffer.

If you're curious about her ravings: http://skeptifem.blogspot.ca/

Every now and then franc drops into some thread where skeptifem is throwing her misandry around like so many angry toys flying out of the pramgina to remind her that even though she is, in his opinion, as looney as looneytoons she is consistent in her lunacy, which, as is his point, is more than can be said for most of the FfTB universe. It is rather entertaining.

[Gumby]

Has anyone else clicked on the 'shop' button at http://www.freethoughtblahgs.com/skeptichunt/ yet?

I am speechless because I am in stitches.

That was damn funny. I really need to scour that whole place, it gets better every day.

In the same "parody commercial" vein, I offer this up, just for fun:

[youtube]EpuYoK6wv_Y[/youtube]

[Dilurk]

Has anyone else clicked on the 'shop' button at http://www.freethoughtblahgs.com/skeptichunt/ yet?

I am speechless because I am in stitches.

That was damn funny. I really need to scour that whole place, it gets better every day.

In the same "parody commercial" vein, I offer this up, just for fun:

[youtube]EpuYoK6wv_Y[/youtube]

Yes, I remember seeing this one! Still funny.

[Tigzy]

Every now and then franc drops into some thread where skeptifem is throwing her misandry around like so many angry toys flying out of the pramgina to remind her that even though she is, in his opinion, as looney as looneytoons she is consistent in her lunacy, which, as is his point, is more than can be said for most of the FfTB universe. It is rather entertaining.

She doesn't get many comments on her blog, does she? You'd think she'd be grateful for the attention.

Let me guess - she doesn't like pitbulls because Abbie likes them, right?

[AndrewV69]

In short, thay say it's an artefact of the culture and the legal system. The actual risk to someone who chooses to have sex in Sweden is better represented by the risk of a false claim leading to actual harassment by police or a conviction. Those data would be more meaningful than simply the number of reported rapes.

Some of my impressions about Sweden are from clearly biased sources, for example even though my eldest son speaks some Swedish and likes the music, I also have a Danish Sister-in-Law, a sibling who visited Denmark, another brother who spent time in Norway, and at one point a cow-orker from Finland.

So, I am well acquainted with how albeit a very small fraction of people from other Scandinavian countries view your country, and while "That's rape in Sweden" is the least of it, it is consistent in that all of your neighbours that I have met, do not have a high opinion of your culture in the first place.

Now, that could be part and parcel for the normal sort of regional attitudes of mutual contempt that other countries have for each other, or even within the same country, for example in Canada where mutual antipathy between Cow Town (Calgary) and Hog Town (Toronto) is the norm.

Even so, is clear to me that you have more than just a culture problem, the extraordinary low number of convictions vs prosecutions on the high number of reported cases (can not be arsed to look for the exact rate right now) is a clear indication of larger social issues.

[Pippin]

Hello everyone.

I've been following this thread and the drama in the athiest community for a year now. Joined up to show support for the Slyme pit and its struggle for freedom from the oppression of FfTB and its feminist dogma.

[Tigzy]

Hello Pippin!

[Dilurk]

Hello everyone.

I've been following this thread and the drama in the athiest community for a year now. Joined up to show support for the Slyme pit and its struggle for freedom from the oppression of FfTB and its feminist dogma.

Hello Pippin!

[bhoytony]

Rebecca Watson is becoming to the FTB crowd what Mohammad is to Muslims. I think there should be a national Draw Rebeccca day.

GUYS DON'T DO THAT!

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/90/277744 ... z.jpg?zz=1

[The Worst Guy]

Hi everyone. I'm going to follow Pippin's lead and emerge from the thicket to express my support and admiration for what I see as a rare example of genuine free expression and rational discourse. I came upon Mr. Myers the same way I imagine a lot of people did: through my discovery of the atheist movement championed by Hitchens, Dawkins, et al., and for a long time I was something of a fan of his directness and humour, but then things took quite a turn.

His treatment of a lion like Dawkins was a major disappointment to me, but I continued to be a fan. When he raged against George R. R. Martin because of a scene in his most recent book wherein a woman was shamed was another huge disappointment (he was complaining, after all, about the treatment of a fictional villain by a group of fictional religious fundamentalists) but I kept on reading him regardless. Then there was the Coffee Loving Skeptic incident, which I discovered via following Myers on Twitter. That was the final straw. I could no longer ignore the fact that he is clearly a nasty, petty little man, and I couldn't take his tantrums and the tantrums of his acolytes any longer.

But luckily it all led me to discover you all, and so there's my silver lining. I'm not much of a participator in these sorts of scenes; I'm neither a blogger or a commenter on any of the blogs, so I'm too much of a nobody and exist at too far of a remove to offer anything terribly valuable, but I figured I'd at least speak up once to let you know that I believe you're contributing in extremely important ways to causes I hold very dear. I suppose every expression of support helps, no matter how small. So thank you all, and excuse me as I recede back into the marsh.

[Scented Nectar]

Grumble, grumble, 1st world problems, grumble. At least nothing to do with feminism, but the emotional exhaustion plus writing all that out on the same day as going to bank is going to give me a major attack of ReGretaVirus any moment now. I just know it!

Hi new people! :)

[Gumby]

Pippin & The Worst Guy, welcome! Don't feel you need to stay silent or feel you have nothing to contribute, we're all here to speak freely and learn (and have some lulz at the expense of the Baboons).

[Lsuoma]

I'm not much of a participator in these sorts of scenes;

Nobody is until they start to participate...

Welcome to you and Pippin both!