Periodic Table of Swearing

[Al Stefanelli]

This oughta raise some hell: Are Men's Rights Legitimate?

No, of course not, you fucking misogynist.

Just finished with Reap. Topics discussed include:

[*]Al Stefanelli raped me.

[*]JackRayner: Digital penetration with a smile.

[*]Justin Vacula, "Rapeula"

[*]Phil_Giordana_FCD, The art of the stealth pearl necklace.

[*]Welch: With a name like "Smuckers" it has to be rape.

[*]ReneeHendricks : Two more shots and it'll be double rape.

[*]Cunt: Cunt

[*]Rystefn: Everyone line up for some rape

[*]Ophelia Benson: What cunt said, cunt.

And, of course, everyone else.

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Can't wait to hear that one!

Actually, might have gotten too serious. Didn't really discuss my videos, I think because it would involve "explaining funny", which should not be attempted.

We went there, with elevatorgate, Atheism Plus abd why is Peezus such a dick, and all the rest. I think the impression I got is that we are still at the "WTF" stage.

Like I posted on JREF, I still can't believe skeptics keep being taken in by this bullshit.

Perhaps you can do another one, or come on ReapSowRadio to discuss your videos. Yes, I agree about the WTF stage, and if you have to explain funny, they won't get it, anyhow.

[JackRayner]

So tell MKG, if you're still hanging on to your view by the time I hit the "summit" button: Can you name a single pragmatic reason why women should be allowed in the infantry?

Yes: Some women are better at your listed tasks than some men.
Barring these women by default is counter-productive.

"etter [...] than some men" does not mean they will be worth anything as a grunt. Not all men are built to be grunts, either. This isn't my argument.

If I can restate it, I would ask for you to present some pragmatically valid reasons why allowing women into infantry units* would make these units better at their jobs.

*Without lowering the standards. Actually, I would make it mandatory that any woman attempting to enter the School of Infantry pass a male Physical Fitness Test. The Marine Corps, in their little trek into social engineering, has not done this however. I wonder if this why both of the female Marines that voluntered for the experiment have failed the course. [Men fail the OIC at a rate of 25%, so it wasn't exactly unexpected.] What worries me is that, going from this line

Additionally, Marine officials are exploring whether the service should develop “gender-neutral” physical standards.

the Marines might be considering lowering the standards for everyone in order to keep entry viable for females. This would mean even less physically capable men would be making it in, and it would be a catastrophe across the board. Call me a physical elitist, but when fighting is your job, hurt fee fees should be the last concern on the damn list. Like I said before, the realities of combat will not ease up just because a unit's standards did...

[BarnOwl]

I think more conferences need to invite this whale to give keynote speeches.

Reminds me of the NONONONO cat:

[youtube]oKI-tD0L18A[/youtube]

[franc]

most of those are just that, stories. there's been one provable case where amazon pulled *a* book off of devices. The idea they'd do it casually makes no economic sense.

It's happened more than once, ironically the first big instance was Orwell. But it's really irrelevant how often it happens - it's the mere fact that it can happen at all, and at any time without notice that is disturbing. Sorry, but if you have no control over your device, then it is deceptive to sell the device as property that you "own" - you don't "own" it at all, you are allowed to use it only to the extent that the remote control will allow. This is a perversion. This loss of control over private property is beyond disturbing because it is becoming normalised - and spreading beyond kindles and i-pods. Bottom line is you cannot trust these devices - especially since they go out of their way to even stop you backing up your own data.

[Lsuoma]

.

I think Pruney will soon get to the "crazy cat lady" stage and start blurting out "cunt" randomly in the street or at the supermarket.

Can we avoid the delay and start calling her Crazy Cunt Lady right now?

[Steersman]

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:41 am

….
You might check out the debate with Paul Elam – of A Voice for Men – where he argues or strongly suggests, I think, that some jurists should vote for acquital in rape cases regardless of the evidence – jury nullification. That looks a little off the wall to me – and to a number of others here. ….

The Innocence project found that of the almost 300 exonerations for men ( who were 99% of exonerations) who had spent decades in prison for crimes they certainly didn't commit, a significant percentage were for rape, or rape and murder. I can't find the exact number.

They definitely do good work. They also have a “Search the Profiles” feature from which I count 168 exonerations for rape out of the 300 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the US since 1989.

In fact, there's a place for skeptics there. So many researchers, notably Dr. Elizabeth Loftus has shown that eyewitness testimony is inaccurate, biased, often reconstructions and can be manipulated, we should seriously be questioning the prominent place we give it in our legal system and culture.

Yes, quite agree. Wikipedia has an interesting article on Eyewitness testimony – link also to the Innocence Project – along with this relevant quote:

The Innocence Project reports eyewitness misidentification occurs in approximately 75% of convictions that are overturned. In the USA, juries are responsible for assessing the credibility of witness testimony presented in a trial. Research has shown that mock juries are often unable to distinguish between a false and accurate eyewitness testimony. The confidence level of the witness is often seen by jurors to correlate with the accuracy of their testimony. An overview of this research by Laub and Bornstein shows this to be an inaccurate gauge of accuracy.

And, most problematically, it seems that various biases on the part of jurors tend to negatively influence the outcomes.

As far as MRAs steeped in woo, some are, I guess. Depends on who you are talking about, or if "MRAs" are being conflated with Pick Up Artists, Male Separatists, Iron John drum bangers and the like. I take it case by case. I don't anticipate, I just deal with people as they come up because, after all, groups are just made of people.

Don’t know if you’ve run across the site Man Boobz before but while it has, I think, some biases and blind-spots of its own, I also think it does a fairly credible job of highlighting and criticizing those “MRAs” who are “steeped in woo” if not up to their noses in ideological bullshit. But likewise agree about the case by case – groups tend to cover varying width spectrums and I’m always leery of asserting that a group is or does one thing or another. Doing so tends to lead to amusing debates as to what constitutes, for examples, a “Real Christian ™ ” or a “Real Feminist ™ ” or a “Real Masculinist (MRA) ™ ” ….

I have seen guys come into the A Voice for Men chat and other social media all pissed off as hell and bitter, but you have to keep in mind that some of these guys have been totally screwed over in a way that an amicably divorced guy who still has nothing bad to say about his ex wife wouldn't understand.

I’ve certainly noticed that as well, at least on AVfM. I had had fairly extensive discussions there – before being banned for defending some aspects of feminism – during which I had cause to look into some divorce statistics. I figured that there are something like 1 million divorces per year in the US and it seems likely that a not inconsiderable fraction has some cause for being bent out of shape at the justice system and/or feminism in general, particularly for the unseemly influence of the latter on the former. That type of anger can’t bode well for the future, particularly as my impression was that it tended to blind people there to the more credible arguments of various feminists.

One good thing about aligning with the MRM is that It give me the perspective to be as constructively a jerk as any woman. I mean in the sense of being a jerk out of a sense of self preservation.

I don’t know about “aligning with the MRM”, but I’ll happily or readily concede – as will even the radfem and denizen of FfTB Sally Strange – that it has at least a few good points. The tendency to place women on pedestals tends to be counterproductive – the AVfM post I linked to above is titled If you’re sick of the princess, kill the prince (?) and has this quite cogent lead-off paragraph:

Well-meaning parents buy Disney princess costumes for their little girls and refer to their daughters as their “little princesses.”

Here’s the problem: Many little princesses grow up to become adult princesses with out of control entitlement issues, believe it’s all about them, all the time and that their wants and feelings trump all else. Self-appointed princesses typically don’t see their partners as equals, but rather as subjects who live to serve them. Reciprocity? Pfft.

Along which line you might be interested in this post from Man Boobz which tries to take Girl Writes What to task for her generally more sensible perspective on domestic violence but which, I think, only succeeds in showing its own blindspot. She is generally talking about some more pathological relationships for which a “one size fits all” set of criteria is not entirely applicable, that there is some segment for which the term “consensual violence” tends to be more accurate. Ran across a somewhat – arguably – amusing analog in a YouTube video titled “Wild Wives of Africa: Bonobo Love”, a segment of which is described as “the females provoke their men-folk just to get a bit of pumping ….” [@ 00:53/2:41]

[youtube]82GUjPConiE[/youtube]

[Steersman]

I think Pruney will soon get to the "crazy cat lady" stage and start blurting out "cunt" randomly in the street or at the supermarket.

Can we avoid the delay and start calling her Crazy Cunt Lady right now?

You don’t think maybe, just maybe mind you, that all of this “Pruney” and “Crazy Cunt Lady” and the like qualifies as “piling on”, if not outright harassment or bullying? Certainly doesn’t seem like it qualifies as cogent reasoning directed at her arguments and positions.

If you think it appropriate then I wonder when, in the spirit of equality and fair play, you might decide to start referring to Crommunist as “nigger” and “tar baby” and the like ….

[JackRayner]

JackRayner: About the military/gender and no feminists wanting gender neutral laws... Funny thing, the feminists here (or well, quite a few feminist politicans etc) actually did push for gender neutral laws on the subject, and got it. Granted, at the same time mandatory conscription for men was canceled, making military service completely voluntary for both men and women, but that was a separate issue, and the only ones I saw fighting against gender neutral laws was conservatives who felt that women shouldn't be fighting wars etc.

Well, I'm not a Conservative. I really don't care what "gender role" women choose to follow or reject. Women can do whatever they want. But if someone's inclusion is going to be a detriment to my unit's effectiveness, I don't want them in it, whether male or female.

It is not uncommon for units to put their useless members on the sidelines until someone figures out where to send them. One of the Corporals in my company let the fear get to him after the first one of us was killed by enemy action. He was relegated to paperwork for the rest of the deployment. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that emotional reaction, but in combat, when the shit hits the fan, the last person we need to loose their head is someone in a leadership position. Incompetent people get put into a role where their incompetency can't endanger anyone else.

I don't know if I've stated it yet, but my issue with the way the Marine Corps is approaching this, is that they're trying to start integrating women into combat roles when they haven't even made the physical standards equal. If the lowered standards for women remain, and they start being integrated into combat units, unit effectiveness is going to suffer. People will die.

This isn't the same as pushing for more women speakers at conferences, regardless of their qualifications to speak on the topic. If a male speaker is pushed out of his slot and replaced by a woman that isn't as qualified, to meet some forced 50/50 distribution that doesn't even mirror what the atheist/skeptic scene as a whole looks like, I don't think anyone is going to die...

TL;DR - Accommodation is what I have a problem with. Everyone should have the opportunity to pursue their goals, but the standards [of critical occupations, in particular] should not have to be lowered in order for individuals who cannot hack it to make it through. If someone can't meet a standard, social engineering should not be the answer. Maybe they should look into transhumanism instead...

[Skep tickle]

As blu says, this http://musingsbysoggymog.blogspot.co.uk ... -guide.htm is beyond awesome.

Indeed.

As a special "bonus", oolon has posted a reply there.

Soggymoss points out a tidbit of hypocrisy (that I others here pointed out a ways back; I forget):

Incidentally, she's given herself away dreadfully with her criticism of Dawkins' “Dear Muslima” comment – I'm astonished she didn't realise it before submitting her piece to Slate. She's slammed Dawkins for telling her – legitimately - that Western women haven't got it as bad as women in the Islamic world... ON THE SAME PAGE as telling us about this incident:

And then I made the grave mistake of responding to a fellow skeptic’s YouTube video in which he stated that male circumcision was just as harmful as female genital mutilation (FGM). I replied to say that while I personally am opposed to any non-medical genital mutilation, FGM is often much, much more damaging than male circumcision.

… so essentially, a message saying “you don't have it that bad, stop moaning” is OK if it comes FROM her... but not if it comes from someone else TO her. She's allowed to shrug off male circumcision on the grounds that it's not so bad as female circumcision, but Richard Dawkins isn't allowed to shrug off an invitation for coffee on the grounds that it's not so bad as getting beaten.

[justinvacula]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

...on her page

http://i.imgur.com/YSJNT.jpg

It's really interesting, isn't it? Surly Amy is so concerned about her safety that she retweets her own address 'uncensored' (read: blocking out where Google points you to) and continues talking about the discussion. When the topic is brought up, the fact that her address is public becomes more known and more known to more people (as Richard points out)...like we see here on Facebook and have seen in so many other places.

Of course Maria doesn't care to understand or ask why the address was posted here - admittedly a mistake I have clarified on my own blog and have rectified by asking for an edit here, but the FTB usuals or their ilk won't talk about that! No, no, no! Inexcusable and totally acceptable!

[Skep tickle]

(meant to say: that I think others here pointed out a ways back; I forget

[JackRayner]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

...on her page

http://i.imgur.com/YSJNT.jpg

"actively seek to do her physical harm"? "some consider to be a hate forum"? Da fuq?!

I'd hate to meet anyone stupid enough to parrot such nonsense. No one here [that I know of?] has ever threatened the idiots from FTB, Skep-Chick, or A+Theism with physical violence. [Except for Franc....Kidding, kidding!] As for "hate", I might be biased, but I've always thought of this place as more of a point-and-laugh forum...

[rayshul]

I don't think New Zealand has restrictions on where women serve, but the NZ army is a peace keeping force so it might be a bit different.

[Al Stefanelli]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

...on her page

http://i.imgur.com/YSJNT.jpg

"actively seek to do her physical harm"? "some consider to be a hate forum"? Da fuq?!

I'd hate to meet anyone stupid enough to parrot such nonsense. No one here [that I know of?] has ever threatened the idiots from FTB, Skep-Chick, or A+Theism with physical violence. [Except for Franc....Kidding, kidding!] As for "hate", I might be biased, but I've always thought of this place as more of a point-and-laugh forum...

People are STILL bringing this up?

http://i.imgur.com/AYjS9.jpg

[DownThunder]

So tell MKG, if you're still hanging on to your view by the time I hit the "summit" button: Can you name a single pragmatic reason why women should be allowed in the infantry?

Yes: Some women are better at your listed tasks than some men.
Barring these women by default is counter-productive.

Which can all be summed up in defining a set of prerequisites for the job and applying them equally. If you make the grade (physical and psychological strength etc) then youre in. The men who dont make the grade dont get in either. Not sure why this remains such a difficult issue to resolve, outside of those feminists claiming that women should be held to an easier standard.

Which is something that must have been quite the slap in the face to some women who have entered physically demanding jobs by passing the same standard as males are subjected to.

[Al Stefanelli]

Sixty-four?

http://www.alstefanelli.com/64.jpg

[mutleyeng]

good spot - maybe we about to get some free porno

[Al Stefanelli]

good spot - maybe we about to get some free porno

I'm amazed the people still pay for porn...

[Steersman]

Sixty-four?

http://www.alstefanelli.com/64.jpg

Maybe we have Maria Myrback to thank for that? ….

[mutleyeng]

has all the hallmarks of an Atheism Plus attack

[ERV]

Sixty-four?

http://www.alstefanelli.com/64.jpg

[youtube]EgIpj25iMDw[/youtube]

[Al Stefanelli]

Sixty-four?

http://www.alstefanelli.com/64.jpg

[youtube]EgIpj25iMDw[/youtube]

Shit, 71 now. Which, as everyone knows, is 69 with two fingers up your ass...

[rayshul]

I think Pruney will soon get to the "crazy cat lady" stage and start blurting out "cunt" randomly in the street or at the supermarket.

Can we avoid the delay and start calling her Crazy Cunt Lady right now?

You don’t think maybe, just maybe mind you, that all of this “Pruney” and “Crazy Cunt Lady” and the like qualifies as “piling on”, if not outright harassment or bullying? Certainly doesn’t seem like it qualifies as cogent reasoning directed at her arguments and positions.

If you think it appropriate then I wonder when, in the spirit of equality and fair play, you might decide to start referring to Crommunist as “nigger” and “tar baby” and the like ….

She does seem ridiculously obsessed with the word cunt at this point. It's a bit of a worry, really.

Good grief though, I don't know why everyone wants us to call Crommunist a nigger. Seriously, it's like the go-to fucking suggestion and it's dumbass. For most of us nigger isn't even part of our cultural cursewords - it's very American. And it makes so little fucking sense as an insult anyway. Also if I use it, am I reclaiming the word? American movies, my only source of knowledge of the word in context, have led me to believe that it is okay for black people to use it. Does that become a sign of comradery then rather than an insult? I JUST DONT FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

I know nothing about this Crommunist person and care fuck all about them, and I certainly don't care enough about them to research their fucking history, find out their ethnic background, look at their cultural fucking heritage to find out what insult is currently in vogue, then find out whether or not it has the same impact if I am of the same ethnic background (using the rule of thumb that everyone with even a smidgen of blood from Africa is totally the same as everyone else from Africa because it's like one big country lulz). Then I'd also have to rewire my entire fucking brain so that I would be using that insult as the first thing to choose off the top of my fucking head in any instance. I'd also have to think really hard before swearing because I'd need to make sure that the word was correct and appropriate to the situation.

And having to think about swearing before you swear?

THEN YOU ARE SWEARING WRONG.

[CommanderTuvok]

Has somebody told Maria Myrback that Surly Amy revealed private information from a DMCA counternotice. That was information NOT available publically, whereas her address was. Further, has Maria Myrback realised that Justin responded to a LIE by Surly Amy, here she claimed his DMCA counternotice was simply a bid to get her address.

The Baboons and their LIES. They never stop.

[Saint N.]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

Um..."That was an inexcusable and totally acceptable thing to do." If the latter is the case, what's she getting so mad about? :D

Also why do people feel this urge to tell you that they're blocking you? Just do it and be done with it. No need for a fucking public declaration since the only person who might even come close to giving a shit will find out about it when he or she (but NOT 'ze' :evil: ) checks his or her profile page.

[CommanderTuvok]

If the guests are people from Atheism+, let me just say:

Welcome to the Slyme Pit, you wankstains.

[Al Stefanelli]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

Um..."That was an inexcusable and totally acceptable thing to do." If the latter is the case, what's she getting so mad about? :D

Also why do people feel this urge to tell you that they're blocking you? Just do it and be done with it. No need for a fucking public declaration since the only person who might even come close to giving a shit will find out about it when he or she (but NOT 'ze' :evil: ) checks his or her profile page.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsbbamwT2e1qcn7d7.jpg

[rayshul]

Re: Periodic Table of Swearing
by decius » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:24 am

Incidentally, people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Vic Stenger beat Peezus's credentials by two orders of magnitude.

The remaining 3 horsemen have already stated that Ayaan was supposed to be the 5th Horseman, but due to scheduling conflicts (and maybe safety concerns) she couldn't be there for the filming of the original talk. Ayaan has more intellect in her toenail than PeePee has in his entire pudgy body. And just to show that this isn't just PZ hating, that goes for me too and many of the educated men I know. She's a smart woman, a very good writer and is courageous. All of which PZ is not (although his really trying on that first one).

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

[rayshul]

Has somebody told Maria Myrback that Surly Amy revealed private information from a DMCA counternotice. That was information NOT available publically, whereas her address was. Further, has Maria Myrback realised that Justin responded to a LIE by Surly Amy, here she claimed his DMCA counternotice was simply a bid to get her address.

The Baboons and their LIES. They never stop.

No one cares about history. :( McGraw got sidelined too in the great feminist narrative.

It's so easy to spin a lot of this stuff though for people who are already hyped up and desperate to find someone to blame.

[CommanderTuvok]

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

Yes, and AHA has a habit of pissing off the Baboons. For that reason alone, she needs a higher profile in the community. Would be ideal if some of the Baboon talks were cut (preferably Queen Bee), and replaced by Ayaan.

[Saint N.]

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

Yes, and AHA has a habit of pissing off the Baboons. For that reason alone, she needs a higher profile in the community. Would be ideal if some of the Baboon talks were cut (preferably Queen Bee), and replaced by Ayaan.

No. Ayaan first needs to learn to check her privilege.

[ERV]

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

Yes, and AHA has a habit of pissing off the Baboons. For that reason alone, she needs a higher profile in the community. Would be ideal if some of the Baboon talks were cut (preferably Queen Bee), and replaced by Ayaan.

She came to OK this time last year-- Her talk was def *not* FfTB approved.

[rayshul]

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

Yes, and AHA has a habit of pissing off the Baboons. For that reason alone, she needs a higher profile in the community. Would be ideal if some of the Baboon talks were cut (preferably Queen Bee), and replaced by Ayaan.

I thought she already had a huge profile in the community and even more in the wider-world - for years I couldn't go into a bookstore without seeing her face prominently on the shelves.

AHA is very, very expensive and way out of budget for most places - I think she charges around 10k for a speaking engagement, which isn't negotiable (I remember reading something about this, but please correct if I'm wrong). She has people out to kill her so there's a heck of a lot of security that's necessary too.

She also works for conservatives which probably doesn't make the more fanatical left-wing groups eager to bring her in.

[welch]

I think more conferences need to invite this whale to give keynote speeches.

Benson is sekretly a whale? It'd explain a lot. Like the krill rider in her speaking contract.

[Dilurk]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

...on her page

http://i.imgur.com/YSJNT.jpg

"actively seek to do her physical harm"? "some consider to be a hate forum"? Da fuq?!

I'd hate to meet anyone stupid enough to parrot such nonsense. No one here [that I know of?] has ever threatened the idiots from FTB, Skep-Chick, or A+Theism with physical violence. [Except for Franc....Kidding, kidding!] As for "hate", I might be biased, but I've always thought of this place as more of a point-and-laugh forum...

I'm much more fearful of the aggressive nutbars from the Fftb than I am of you lot.

[rayshul]

Actually I'm not sure what constitutes expensive for a speaker - all those I've been involved with have had speakers who weren't paid due to their profession - I just don't think a smaller convention would be able to afford 10k for a single guest.

[welch]

Secular Woman ditches their "reveal" calander project claiming not enough photos were sent.

...and you'll only get your money back if you happen to e-mail them!

Project donors have been contacted by e-mail and may request refunds by contacting Secular Woman on or before Monday, October 29. Unrefunded contributions will be reallocated to travel grants and operational expenses.

but no problem!

Melody Hensley now has joined their leadership team!

http://www.secularwoman.org/board_advis ... _expansion

I wonder if they've seen her attacking women and claiming that women I listed on my blog harass other women!

Silly misogynist. It's only bad to attack proper feminists. Chill Girls aren't proper women, they're just bitches who should be slapped down.

[franc]

If the guests are people from Atheism+, let me just say:

Welcome to the Slyme Pit, you wankstains.

Yes, you urinal mints of life, if you are here and looking for evidence of, and gloating about, whatever vandalism occurred, you're only going to find a few passing comments and yawns. If it makes you feel better, franc did it. All of it. Just like he does everything else. And as always, you are right, it is one deranged loner and not an entire internet that sees you clowns as what you really are - retarded children that no one likes. Better now?

[justinvacula]

Has somebody told Maria Myrback that Surly Amy revealed private information from a DMCA counternotice. That was information NOT available publically, whereas her address was. Further, has Maria Myrback realised that Justin responded to a LIE by Surly Amy, here she claimed his DMCA counternotice was simply a bid to get her address.

The Baboons and their LIES. They never stop.

Are you talking about @elevatorgate information?

[acathode]

TL;DR - Accommodation is what I have a problem with. Everyone should have the opportunity to pursue their goals, but the standards [of critical occupations, in particular] should not have to be lowered in order for individuals who cannot hack it to make it through. If someone can't meet a standard, social engineering should not be the answer. Maybe they should look into transhumanism instead...

My post was mostly meant as a reply to one of your earlier comments about no feminists ever fighting for equality when it came to the military (or something like that), and not as a reply to your current discussion about physical fitness question. Nor was it any sort of accusation of you being a conservative, it's just that this was pushed by Swedish leftist feminists, and as always in politics, if your opponent suggest something, you gotta be against it, hence the ones against it was mainly conservatives.

Basically, I just wanted to point out that there's actually feminists who have noticed the unfairness when it comes to military service, and actually did something to fix it. Not all of them are the batshit crazy radfem kind, nor are all of them the kind of dishonest, selfserving, twats we see in Myers, Watson, and the rest of the FC, something that is a bit too easy to forget when we are mainly paying attention to the shrillest idiots.

Also, personally, I'm not in favor of any sort of special treatment for anyone, be it speakers for conferences, or the marines, or anything else. You either have what it takes, or you're out, no matter what kind of job. If it's wrong to give someone special treatment because the plumbing they were born with, then it's wrong all the time, not just when it suits the agenda.
Neither do I give a flying fuck about 50/50 ratios, the important thing is that everyone has the same opportunity to pursue the career and life they want for themselves. I find it extremely unlikely that we will end up with 50/50 if everyone where free to pursue the career they desired, so I don't see the point in trying to force them or coerce them into careers they actually don't want to pursue.
So it doesn't really matter to much to me that 95% of the garbage collectors are men, or than 90% of nurses are female, as long as we don't screw up the nurses paycheck or stop caring about the health of the garbage collectors, I'm fine.

(Though, considering that IMO nurses are underpaid, and that, IMO, society is way to flippant about accidents in male-dominated jobs like construction, I'm not actually that fine)

[welch]

Good to see that Meyers has principles, and would no way use any Pepsi products after the Scieneblogs debacle:

http://instagram.com/p/RS50-hjUYD/

That still pisses me off. We could have gotten some really cool insight into the science behind the food industry (there is a fuckload of science/testing/etc behind every new flavor of pop/chips/etc you see on the market, plus all the new shit-- there is this 'new' kind of 'salt' that gives you the flavor without all the sodium (think Splenda for salt) that I couldnt wait to learn about), but no. See, having Invitrogen sponsor blogs and having dipshit in-house anti-GMO 'bloggers' ruin any chance of Invitrogen $$$ ever again was just SUPER. But having actual Pepsi scientists write about food science on a Pepsi blog was UNTHINKABLE!

Stupid fucking cunts.

That pissed me off so bad, pretty much for the same reasons. Without a HINT of bad behavior from pepsi, or even intent, it was OMG THEY WILL DICTATE CONTENT. Gee, what a shock one of the loudest voices on that side was...PZ. When anyone tried to say "Well, you don't know that, you're kind of operating from fear. Maybe you should let them try this thing, and see what happens, so you have actual data", they were shouted down as ebul corporate tools.

Stupid cunts indeed, and non cuntier than PZ.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

If the guests are people from Atheism+, let me just say:

Welcome to the Slyme Pit, you wankstains.

Yes, you urinal mints of life, if you are here and looking for evidence of, and gloating about, whatever vandalism occurred, you're only going to find a few passing comments and yawns. If it makes you feel better, franc did it. All of it. Just like he does everything else. And as always, you are right, it is one deranged loner and not an entire internet that sees you clowns as what you really are - retarded children that no one likes. Better now?

A+theism people: You are stupid as a bag of weasels, and smell twice as bad. You poison society with your self-regarding ideas of righteousness. Half of you are 400 pound blocks of lard that spend all your days coiling and coiling your anger into a tight little knot by visiting the darkest internet holes and pretending that what you find there is representative of the real world. The rest of you are mentally sick enablers of these obese monstrosities.

[welch]

most of those are just that, stories. there's been one provable case where amazon pulled *a* book off of devices. The idea they'd do it casually makes no economic sense.

It's happened more than once, ironically the first big instance was Orwell. But it's really irrelevant how often it happens - it's the mere fact that it can happen at all, and at any time without notice that is disturbing. Sorry, but if you have no control over your device, then it is deceptive to sell the device as property that you "own" - you don't "own" it at all, you are allowed to use it only to the extent that the remote control will allow. This is a perversion. This loss of control over private property is beyond disturbing because it is becoming normalised - and spreading beyond kindles and i-pods. Bottom line is you cannot trust these devices - especially since they go out of their way to even stop you backing up your own data.

and every cop in the world can bust a cap in your fucking skull on a whim.

Yet, it doesn't seem to happen as often as the fear pump would have you believe. I wonder why not?

Oh wait, I know, because if it does, that company goes out of business.

But if you wish to fear everything out there that you didn't make yourself...

well, it makes me wonder what you're even participating on the internet with.

[Steersman]

I think Pruney will soon get to the "crazy cat lady" stage and start blurting out "cunt" randomly in the street or at the supermarket.

Can we avoid the delay and start calling her Crazy Cunt Lady right now?

You don’t think maybe, just maybe mind you, that all of this “Pruney” and “Crazy Cunt Lady” and the like qualifies as “piling on”, if not outright harassment or bullying? Certainly doesn’t seem like it qualifies as cogent reasoning directed at her arguments and positions.

If you think it appropriate then I wonder when, in the spirit of equality and fair play, you might decide to start referring to Crommunist as “nigger” and “tar baby” and the like ….

She does seem ridiculously obsessed with the word cunt at this point. It's a bit of a worry, really.

Certainly someone – or some people – are rather obsessed by it – and it really doesn’t seem to be Benson herself. I don’t know how many of the 340 uses of the word “cunt” on FTB over the last several months that franc tallied came from Benson, but if the following on B&W today is any measure then I would say franc is barking up the wrong tree – as he periodically does:

October 27, 2012 at 10:43 am
I should probably rename this blog Humorless Bitch. Or Fucking Cunt. Or One of the Biggest Cunts on Planet Earth. Or Fucking Ugly Bitch Cunts Shut the Fuck Up.

Looks to me more a reference to herself or the fact that that is what others are calling her rather than being profanity and insults she has directed at other people.

Good grief though, I don't know why everyone wants us to call Crommunist a nigger. Seriously, it's like the go-to fucking suggestion and it's dumbass.

I am not in the least trying get everyone “to call Crommunist a nigger”. It was an analogy: repetitive verbal insults, “cunt” in particular, directed at Benson is, arguably, analogous to calling Crommunist that or calling, for example, Josh – Official Spokesgay a faggot; if the first one is acceptable then so should the others. But it was also somewhat of a reference to something that Benson asked on Dawkins’ site some time back:

Racial pejoratives are taboo, but sexist ones are just fine. Why is that? What does that say about routine contempt for women? Volumes, if you ask me.

I think she’s mistaken about the “routine contempt for women” since, as I’ve argued several times, asserting that an insult directed at an individual should be applied to all those who happen to share the attribute described really doesn’t seem to hold very much water. But if that is the case then that should apply to epithets such as “prick”, “nigger” and “faggot”.

Also if I use it, am I reclaiming the word? American movies, my only source of knowledge of the word in context, have led me to believe that it is okay for black people to use it. Does that become a sign of comradery then rather than an insult? I JUST DONT FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

I don’t really entirely understand the process either, although I think Andrew posted several videos some time back from Stephen Pinker [“The Language Instinct”, etc.] on the nature of profanity and various insults. And, as you suggest, it seems more acceptable for the member of a group to insult other members of a group with those sexual and racial pejoratives. Rather silly in a way I think – I was thinking that maybe I could get Abbie or Sacha to call Rebecca or Ophelia a cunt for me in exchange for me calling PZ and Laden pricks and then everyone would be happy - or at least not have a leg to stand on ….

I know nothing about this Crommunist person ….

Freethought blogger, although haven’t read much of him ….

[welch]

From my Facebook (see link below in sig if you care)

http://i.imgur.com/oMJB3.jpg

...on her page

http://i.imgur.com/YSJNT.jpg

"actively seek to do her physical harm"? "some consider to be a hate forum"? Da fuq?!

I'd hate to meet anyone stupid enough to parrot such nonsense. No one here [that I know of?] has ever threatened the idiots from FTB, Skep-Chick, or A+Theism with physical violence. [Except for Franc....Kidding, kidding!] As for "hate", I might be biased, but I've always thought of this place as more of a point-and-laugh forum...

I'm much more fearful of the aggressive nutbars from the Fftb than I am of you lot.

I know who has the worst record in the "let's fuck with people IRL" department.

[welch]

I think Pruney will soon get to the "crazy cat lady" stage and start blurting out "cunt" randomly in the street or at the supermarket.

Can we avoid the delay and start calling her Crazy Cunt Lady right now?

You don’t think maybe, just maybe mind you, that all of this “Pruney” and “Crazy Cunt Lady” and the like qualifies as “piling on”, if not outright harassment or bullying? Certainly doesn’t seem like it qualifies as cogent reasoning directed at her arguments and positions.

If you think it appropriate then I wonder when, in the spirit of equality and fair play, you might decide to start referring to Crommunist as “nigger” and “tar baby” and the like ….

She does seem ridiculously obsessed with the word cunt at this point. It's a bit of a worry, really.

Certainly someone – or some people – are rather obsessed by it – and it really doesn’t seem to be Benson herself. I don’t know how many of the 340 uses of the word “cunt” on FTB over the last several months that franc tallied came from Benson, but if the following on B&W today is any measure then I would say franc is barking up the wrong tree – as he periodically does:

October 27, 2012 at 10:43 am
I should probably rename this blog Humorless Bitch. Or Fucking Cunt. Or One of the Biggest Cunts on Planet Earth. Or Fucking Ugly Bitch Cunts Shut the Fuck Up.

Looks to me more a reference to herself or the fact that that is what others are calling her rather than being profanity and insults she has directed at other people.

Good grief though, I don't know why everyone wants us to call Crommunist a nigger. Seriously, it's like the go-to fucking suggestion and it's dumbass.

I am not in the least trying get everyone “to call Crommunist a nigger”. It was an analogy: repetitive verbal insults, “cunt” in particular, directed at Benson is, arguably, analogous to calling Crommunist that or calling, for example, Josh – Official Spokesgay a faggot; if the first one is acceptable then so should the others. But it was also somewhat of a reference to something that Benson asked on Dawkins’ site some time back:

Racial pejoratives are taboo, but sexist ones are just fine. Why is that? What does that say about routine contempt for women? Volumes, if you ask me.

I think she’s mistaken about the “routine contempt for women” since, as I’ve argued several times, asserting that an insult directed at an individual should be applied to all those who happen to share the attribute described really doesn’t seem to hold very much water. But if that is the case then that should apply to epithets such as “prick”, “nigger” and “faggot”.

Also if I use it, am I reclaiming the word? American movies, my only source of knowledge of the word in context, have led me to believe that it is okay for black people to use it. Does that become a sign of comradery then rather than an insult? I JUST DONT FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

I don’t really entirely understand the process either, although I think Andrew posted several videos some time back from Stephen Pinker [“The Language Instinct”, etc.] on the nature of profanity and various insults. And, as you suggest, it seems more acceptable for the member of a group to insult other members of a group with those sexual and racial pejoratives. Rather silly in a way I think – I was thinking that maybe I could get Abbie or Sacha to call Rebecca or Ophelia a cunt for me in exchange for me calling PZ and Laden pricks and then everyone would be happy - or at least not have a leg to stand on ….

I know nothing about this Crommunist person ….

Freethought blogger, although haven’t read much of him ….

Probably because Crommunist isn't a whiny fuck. On the other hand, given how it ramps him up, I'll call Julian a spic all the livelong day. Maybe he'll even cry if I do it enough.

[Michael J]

AHA always was the right choice - a right-wing, ex-Muslim politician with hands-on experience of Islam kind of rounded off the experiences of the five.

Yes, and AHA has a habit of pissing off the Baboons. For that reason alone, she needs a higher profile in the community. Would be ideal if some of the Baboon talks were cut (preferably Queen Bee), and replaced by Ayaan.

I thought she already had a huge profile in the community and even more in the wider-world - for years I couldn't go into a bookstore without seeing her face prominently on the shelves.

AHA is very, very expensive and way out of budget for most places - I think she charges around 10k for a speaking engagement, which isn't negotiable (I remember reading something about this, but please correct if I'm wrong). She has people out to kill her so there's a heck of a lot of security that's necessary too.

She also works for conservatives which probably doesn't make the more fanatical left-wing groups eager to bring her in.

I saw her in Melbourne and she is simply stunning. She says that she approached the conservatives because liberal groups thought that criticisms of Islam were racist. It must really burn PZ that she is the fourth horseman.

[KiwiInOz]

I assume that

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1441 ... 51f478.png

plus

http://www.zuckervati.com/archives/imag ... lation.jpg

equals

The love that dare not speak its name.

[welch]

I assume that

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1441 ... 51f478.png

plus

http://www.zuckervati.com/archives/imag ... lation.jpg

equals

The love that dare not speak its name.

Given we're talking about PZ, the name is "whoooooorrrrrrrrrfffff"

[franc]

and every cop in the world can bust a cap in your fucking skull on a whim.

Yet, it doesn't seem to happen as often as the fear pump would have you believe. I wonder why not?

Oh wait, I know, because if it does, that company goes out of business.

But if you wish to fear everything out there that you didn't make yourself...

well, it makes me wonder what you're even participating on the internet with.

Hey, you want to use crap you don't own and have no control over, you go right ahead. Did I say anything about stopping you? No. But this is shit that needs to be pointed out loud and clear at point of sale - you buy these devices, they are not yours. I simply refuse to have anything to do with any e-crap that won't allow me to treat it as just a common portable hard-drive to do with as I see fit - that goes for music players and ebook readers. A file is a file. It's mine. I can mutilate it, copy it, change it's format, whatever I please. If I can't do that, I won't touch it with a stick. It's broken technology. This whole discussion arose because, quite amazingly, Sony has released a bunch of e-readers that are completely open and user respecting. Yes, Sony, of all companies. But they did. Rayshul has one and she wants to import kindle books.

Aside from just being a bitch Welch, the only way your comments can remain consistent is if you'd be OK for your vendor to have a remote kill switch you have no control over on your laptop too.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Granny Weatherwax, having exhausted her supply of intellectual input into the internet, has decided to play the "take my ball and leave" card:

I should probably rename this blog Humorless Bitch. Or Fucking Cunt. Or One of the Biggest Cunts on Planet Earth. Or Fucking Ugly Bitch Cunts Shut the Fuck Up.Or, actually, maybe I should just close it the fuck down.

And it's worked: the sycophants are begging her to continue spewing words into their minds for them.

Fucking pathetic. Hey, Benson: when you have an idea of your own, something of actual worth to tell us, something we can't get from just fucking casually browsing the fucking internet, THEN you can hold us hostage with the threat of withdrawing yourself from our lives. Until then? You're a washed up old waste of our time.

[welch]

and every cop in the world can bust a cap in your fucking skull on a whim.

Yet, it doesn't seem to happen as often as the fear pump would have you believe. I wonder why not?

Oh wait, I know, because if it does, that company goes out of business.

But if you wish to fear everything out there that you didn't make yourself...

well, it makes me wonder what you're even participating on the internet with.

Hey, you want to use crap you don't own and have no control over, you go right ahead. Did I say anything about stopping you? No. But this is shit that needs to be pointed out loud and clear at point of sale - you buy these devices, they are not yours. I simply refuse to have anything to do with any e-crap that won't allow me to treat it as just a common portable hard-drive to do with as I see fit - that goes for music players and ebook readers. A file is a file. It's mine. I can mutilate it, copy it, change it's format, whatever I please. If I can't do that, I won't touch it with a stick. It's broken technology. This whole discussion arose because, quite amazingly, Sony has released a bunch of e-readers that are completely open and user respecting. Yes, Sony, of all companies. But they did. Rayshul has one and she wants to import kindle books.

Aside from just being a bitch Welch, the only way your comments can remain consistent is if you'd be OK for your vendor to have a remote kill switch you have no control over on your laptop too.

Oh cry a little louder frank, but keep in mind, this is my area of expertise. Really. So pardon me if you telling me I'm wrong based on SONY BEING OPEN is just fucking hi-LAIR-IOUS. Also, you just used the same fucking analogy you laugh at Ophelia for, except she does it about "cunt' and "nigger.

Good job dumbass, you just used Umbridgian logic.

Also, "Sony". "open". BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Stick to arguing philosophy franc, you're better at it.

[JackRayner]

TL;DR - Accommodation is what I have a problem with. Everyone should have the opportunity to pursue their goals, but the standards [of critical occupations, in particular] should not have to be lowered in order for individuals who cannot hack it to make it through. If someone can't meet a standard, social engineering should not be the answer. Maybe they should look into transhumanism instead...

My post was mostly meant as a reply to one of your earlier comments about no feminists ever fighting for equality when it came to the military (or something like that), and not as a reply to your current discussion about physical fitness question. Nor was it any sort of accusation of you being a conservative

I know. That bit about the conservatives was just what I used as a point of reference for my next rant.

it's just that this was pushed by Swedish leftist feminists, and as always in politics, if your opponent suggest something, you gotta be against it, hence the ones against it was mainly conservatives.

Basically, I just wanted to point out that there's actually feminists who have noticed the unfairness when it comes to military service, and actually did something to fix it. Not all of them are the batshit crazy radfem kind, nor are all of them the kind of dishonest, selfserving, twats we see in Myers, Watson, and the rest of the FC, something that is a bit too easy to forget when we are mainly paying attention to the shrillest idiots.

I get that, but if it comes down to a battle between practicality and principle, I'm most likely going to fall on the side of practicality, and more so when lives are at stake. While I oppose any male-only draft, I am also opposed to the idea of women in combat roles if they don't meet the established standards that males in those roles have always had to meet. There would be plenty of non-combat roles that need filling that women could be drafted into. The way we see it in the Marine Corps is, you are either infantry, or you are support for the infantry. Any fighting and dying that the Marines in my company did was in order to get supplies to grunt units whose jobs it was to fight, in specific. Me riding up in the gun turret of a truck with a machine gun was something that a female Marine could be trained to do.

[Though, climbing up the hood and side of a 14 foot tall truck while carrying the machine gun to mount it before heading out is a different story. The 82lbs M2 can be broken down to its barrel and receiver, but the 72lbs Mk.19 had to be carried as whole piece... :? ]

Also, personally, I'm not in favor of any sort of special treatment for anyone, be it speakers for conferences, or the marines, or anything else. You either have what it takes, or you're out, no matter what kind of job. If it's wrong to give someone special treatment because the plumbing they were born with, then it's wrong all the time, not just when it suits the agenda.
Neither do I give a flying fuck about 50/50 ratios, the important thing is that everyone has the same opportunity to pursue the career and life they want for themselves. I find it extremely unlikely that we will end up with 50/50 if everyone where free to pursue the career they desired, so I don't see the point in trying to force them or coerce them into careers they actually don't want to pursue.
So it doesn't really matter to much to me that 95% of the garbage collectors are men, or than 90% of nurses are female, as long as we don't screw up the nurses paycheck or stop caring about the health of the garbage collectors, I'm fine.

(Though, considering that IMO nurses are underpaid, and that, IMO, society is way to flippant about accidents in male-dominated jobs like construction, I'm not actually that fine)

*thumbs up*

[Rystefn]

The way we see it in the Marine Corps is, you are either infantry, or you are support for the infantry.

That's a military philosophy that's been floating around since at least Rome, and likely longer... of course, it only holds water in that light by redefining what infantry is periodically when technology progresses a certain amount.

That said, I fall 100% on the side of "The standards are the standards, and if you can do the job, you're qualified, regardless of your genitalia." They don't let lightweights who can't hang do those jabs just because they've got a penis, so they shouldn't keep out tough-as-nails fighters who can go for days without stopping just because they don't have one. Frankly, it boggles my fucking mind that there's even a discussion on the subject.

[JackRayner]

This oughta raise some hell: Are Men's Rights Legitimate?

No, of course not, you fucking misogynist.

Just finished with Reap. Topics discussed include:

[*]Al Stefanelli raped me.
[*]JackRayner: Digital penetration with a smile.
[*]Justin Vacula, "Rapeula"
[*]Phil_Giordana_FCD, The art of the stealth pearl necklace.
[*]Welch: With a name like "Smuckers" it has to be rape.
[*]ReneeHendricks : Two more shots and it'll be double rape.
[*]Cunt: Cunt
[*]Rystefn: Everyone line up for some rape
[*]Ophelia Benson: What cunt said, cunt.

And, of course, everyone else.

:lol:

Be sure to let us know when that goes up, Reap!

[JackRayner]

I don't think New Zealand has restrictions on where women serve, but the NZ army is a peace keeping force so it might be a bit different.

Hm. That's making me wonder about the Japanese Self Defense Force. If it wasn't for alcohol reasons, I would go and totally look that up.

[ReneeHendricks]

[*]ReneeHendricks : Two more shots and it'll be double rape.

ROFL! Mwah! No shots tonight, sadly.

[JackRayner]

I simply refuse to have anything to do with any e-crap that won't allow me to treat it as just a common portable hard-drive to do with as I see fit - that goes for music players and ebook readers. A file is a file. It's mine. I can mutilate it, copy it, change it's format, whatever I please. If I can't do that, I won't touch it with a stick. It's broken technology.

Main reason why I won't buy music from iTunes. Sorry to admit, but if an artist/label/whatever only makes their music available on iTunes, with their m4p crap, I will go steal it instead. That usually means that I'm buying my songs from Amazon or from the artists' own website. [Like one of my current favorites, J*Davey. They released their latest album for $2.99. You purchase their "digital booklet" for that much and it just happens to include 11 tracks. Haha. Anyone interested can find most of the tracks to listen to here. The genre is....uh...I have no idea. New wave/urban/pop/elecronic/neo soul? They got a lot more music available out there if you like them, too...] The mp3's I own/have work just fine in my little iPod, so it all works out.

And I could probably be called a hypocrite because I'm against the pirating of movies/videogames, but...I dunno. Those cost a lot more, usually. I just want to listen to goddamn music without worrying about goddamn DRM bullshit. Rationalizing-something-or-other...

[franc]

And I could probably be called a hypocrite because I'm against the pirating of movies/videogames, but...I dunno. Those cost a lot more, usually. I just want to listen to goddamn music without worrying about goddamn DRM bullshit. Rationalizing-something-or-other...

The piracy argument is a strawman. They were saying the same thing about cassette tapes in the days of vinyl. Did anyone die? No. For staggering hypocrisy, check this out - Lars Ulrich reminiscing about metal 'zines and tape traders. No, it's about the right to change your mind about what you want to listen or read something on - throwing your kindle out and using an epub reader, or swapping your i-pod for an mp3/FLAC player without buying what you own all over again. It's about hardware failing and having backups. The easiest way to criminalise folks is to call them thieves. Meanwhile, the studies keep rolling out that repeat the same bleeding obvious reality they reported on a decade ago: that "pirates" are also the biggest spenders when it comes to consuming legitimate product -

http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-bu ... rs-121015/
http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-bu ... es-121018/

[franc]

The argument is not about piracy - it's about control. To chain you to these devices and give you no say in the matter.