Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

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CommanderTuvok
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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5221

Post by CommanderTuvok » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:44 pm

You have to laugh when proponents of blocking everybody and anybody point out that they are blocked by someone they have thrown shade at on social media and beyond.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5222

Post by shoutinghorse » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:03 pm

AndrewV69 wrote:

I know I am a bad person ... but the devil made me do it as someone used to say.

https://i.imgur.com/hFsqLXy.png

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/pol ... -1-9517303

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5223

Post by KiwiInOz » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:07 pm

rayshul wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:07 am
I've been doing some dating and you'd be surprised how many men are secretly conservative and just leave the mention off their profiles. ^_^ Just in case.
Some of us are conservative liberals, or liberal conservatives.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5224

Post by KiwiInOz » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm

Lsuoma wrote: Glad to see their (sic) still concentrating on hiring the best at the BBC.

tiepoe.png
It is a fair hike if the fare hike is too high.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5225

Post by Keating » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:48 pm

rayshul wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:07 am
I've been doing some dating and you'd be surprised how many men are secretly conservative and just leave the mention off their profiles. ^_^ Just in case.
Nah, that doesn't surprise me in the least.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5226

Post by Keating » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:52 pm

MarcusAu wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:12 am
Pre-Industrial revolution people were living in smaller isolated communities. Their shared narrative (which was really just a subset of their shared cultural practices and life experiences) would have come from various sources - undoubtedly the local pastor played a part - but there were most likely other influences too. (Check out any video on pagan revivalism if you feel like being lectured to ad nauseam on this point).
I don't think the size of the group matters all that much. Even a family will break down when the narrative about what holds them together fails (or more likely, there was never a cohesive narrative).

We need at least a low resolution story about who we are, where we're going and what we value to be bound together. That is the cultural problem I see today. That's what I was trying to get to with the prescriptive versus descriptive teaching of English. It's very much a prescriptive view that we need that low resolution story that is imposed. If you take the idea that culture can be entirely descriptive, things will eventually fall apart, just like no one can write good essays today after 40 years of teaching them that there's no rules of English.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5227

Post by Keating » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:53 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:07 pm
rayshul wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:07 am
I've been doing some dating and you'd be surprised how many men are secretly conservative and just leave the mention off their profiles. ^_^ Just in case.
Some of us are conservative liberals, or liberal conservatives.
Or anarchist conservatives. Or authoritarian liberals.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5228

Post by Service Dog » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 pm

18 year old male feminist commits suicide in Argentina, after false rape accusation at feminist rally.

https://tn.com.ar/sociedad/la-familia-d ... que_928107

https://i.imgur.com/RSBK9Xm.jpg?1

How long will we tolerate this wholesale destruction of our world supply of Godfrey Elfwicks?!

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5229

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 pm

moderate extremists?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5230

Post by KiwiInOz » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:02 pm

Keating wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:07 pm
rayshul wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:07 am
I've been doing some dating and you'd be surprised how many men are secretly conservative and just leave the mention off their profiles. ^_^ Just in case.
Some of us are conservative liberals, or liberal conservatives.
Or anarchist conservatives. Or authoritarian liberals.
But I think that we can all agree to a bad reaction to the reactionaries.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5231

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:18 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: moderate extremists?
The preferred term is “liberal fascism”
In the book, Goldberg argues that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that before World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2] Goldberg writes that there was more to fascism than bigotry and genocide, and argues that those characteristics were not so much a feature of Italian fascism, but rather of German Nazism, which was allegedly forced upon the Italian fascists "after the Nazis had invaded northern Italy and created a puppet government in Salò."[3]
Brilliant, insightful, and important.” —New York Sun

“Well-researched, seriously argued, and funny.” —Publishers Weekly“Bold and witty… [Goldberg] makes a persuasive case that fascism was from the beginning a movement of the left.” —New York Post“Jonah Goldberg is the first historian to detail the havoc this spin of all spins has played upon Western thought for the past seventy-five years, very much including the present moment.” —Tom Wolfe

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5232

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: moderate extremists?
The preferred term is “liberal fascism”
In the book, Goldberg argues that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that before World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2] Goldberg writes that there was more to fascism than bigotry and genocide, and argues that those characteristics were not so much a feature of Italian fascism, but rather of German Nazism, which was allegedly forced upon the Italian fascists "after the Nazis had invaded northern Italy and created a puppet government in Salò."[3]
Brilliant, insightful, and important.” —New York Sun

“Well-researched, seriously argued, and funny.” —Publishers Weekly“Bold and witty… [Goldberg] makes a persuasive case that fascism was from the beginning a movement of the left.” —New York Post“Jonah Goldberg is the first historian to detail the havoc this spin of all spins has played upon Western thought for the past seventy-five years, very much including the present moment.” —Tom Wolfe
Jonah Goldberg, famous as the dweeby son of Lucianne Goldberg, famous for tracking down Bill Clinton's sperm on the Lewinsky dress.
You know that when a heavy hitter like him writes a book and coins some terms this is earthshaking. Honest, I thought that loser crawled away in shame as no longer relevant D list political pundit years ago to not return.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5233

Post by Kirbmarc » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:05 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: moderate extremists?
The preferred term is “liberal fascism”
In the book, Goldberg argues that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that before World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2] Goldberg writes that there was more to fascism than bigotry and genocide, and argues that those characteristics were not so much a feature of Italian fascism, but rather of German Nazism, which was allegedly forced upon the Italian fascists "after the Nazis had invaded northern Italy and created a puppet government in Salò."[3]
Brilliant, insightful, and important.” —New York Sun

“Well-researched, seriously argued, and funny.” —Publishers Weekly“Bold and witty… [Goldberg] makes a persuasive case that fascism was from the beginning a movement of the left.” —New York Post“Jonah Goldberg is the first historian to detail the havoc this spin of all spins has played upon Western thought for the past seventy-five years, very much including the present moment.” —Tom Wolfe
That's the dumbest pile of bollocks I've read in quite a long time.

Fascism was a movement which was HEAVILY conservative and reactionary. Italian Fascism made a deal with the Vatican, which had rejected previous "classical liberal" governments as "modern degeneracy". Fascism rejected any role for women except as mothers and homemakers, and indeed the Italian fascist youth was rigidly segregated by sex. Italian fascism was all about celebrating the alleged traditions of the Roman Empire (from naming its youth section "Sons of the She-Wolf", reflecting the founding myth of Rome, to wanting to re-establish a "New Roman Empire" in the Mediterranean Sea). Italian fascism imposed old, obsolete and reactionary codes of conduct, like using the 2nd person plural ("voi") to address strangers.

Spanish fascism under Franco was explicitly religiously conservative, and highly supported by Catholic authorities. The same is true for Chilean fascism under Pinochet.

There was very, very little progressivism in fascism. Indeed the entirety of modernity, including modern art, was judged to be degenerate. Italian fascism was inspired by the EXPLICITLY anti-Enlightenment writings of Julius Evola, Charles Maurras and Rene Guenon, the same writings praised by alt-right favorites like Alexandr Dugin and Steve Bannon.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5234

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:34 pm

The man has authored a treasure trove of a library.
Suicide of the West: How the Rebirth of Tribalism, Populism, Nationalism, and Identity Politics is Destroying American Democracy. Crown Publishing Group. 2018. ISBN 978-1101904947.

The Tyranny of Clichés: How Liberals Cheat in the War of Ideas. Penguin books. 2012. ISBN 978-1101572351.

Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning. Crown Publishing Group. 2008. ISBN 9780-385517690.
And dropped quoted pearls:
[the West is under attack by forces that possess] respect and even deference for leadership and position; esteem for accomplishment, especially when achieved through long labor and rigorous education; reverence for heritage, particularly history, philosophy and culture; commitment to rationalism and scientific investigation; upholding of objective standards; most important, the willingness to assert unyieldingly that one idea, contribution or attainment is better than another
The unvarnished truth is this: You could eliminate every woman writer, painter, and composer from the caveman era to the present moment, and not significantly deform the course of Western culture….This does not mean women are inferior. It simply means they didn’t have the opportunity. There should be no shame in this for modern women….

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5235

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:52 pm

[don’t possess]

:lol:

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5236

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:13 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
That's the dumbest pile of bollocks I've read in quite a long time.

Fascism was a movement which was HEAVILY conservative and reactionary. Italian Fascism made a deal with the Vatican, which had rejected previous "classical liberal" governments as "modern degeneracy". Fascism rejected any role for women except as mothers and homemakers, and indeed the Italian fascist youth was rigidly segregated by sex. Italian fascism was all about celebrating the alleged traditions of the Roman Empire (from naming its youth section "Sons of the She-Wolf", reflecting the founding myth of Rome, to wanting to re-establish a "New Roman Empire" in the Mediterranean Sea). Italian fascism imposed old, obsolete and reactionary codes of conduct, like using the 2nd person plural ("voi") to address strangers.

Spanish fascism under Franco was explicitly religiously conservative, and highly supported by Catholic authorities. The same is true for Chilean fascism under Pinochet.

There was very, very little progressivism in fascism. Indeed the entirety of modernity, including modern art, was judged to be degenerate. Italian fascism was inspired by the EXPLICITLY anti-Enlightenment writings of Julius Evola, Charles Maurras and Rene Guenon, the same writings praised by alt-right favorites like Alexandr Dugin and Steve Bannon.
It’s your tendency to pronounce before you properly engage.

It’s a form of intellectual arrogance I’d normally commend as a great conversation starter.

Here though it appears you are fencing with strawmen. I’ve not read enough to gauge an argument I can (responsibly) engage with. But I do see there’s no claimed straight line from European Fascism to the American variant.

Maybe you should first :o understand the POV you seek to demolish with erudite ease ....

http://i.imgur.com/Q30aEJY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cvQTbdi.jpg

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5237

Post by TheMudbrooker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:15 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: moderate extremists?
Radical centrists.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5238

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:23 pm

Kirb. Be honest.

Are you a “friendly fascist”?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/ori ... 10/625.png

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5239

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:38 pm

Service Dog wrote: 18 year old male feminist commits suicide in Argentina, after false rape accusation at feminist rally.

https://tn.com.ar/sociedad/la-familia-d ... que_928107

https://i.imgur.com/RSBK9Xm.jpg?1

How long will we tolerate this wholesale destruction of our world supply of Godfrey Elfwicks?!
Geez, that's like hitting the trifecta at the races.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5240

Post by jugheadnaut » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:43 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
That's the dumbest pile of bollocks I've read in quite a long time.

Fascism was a movement which was HEAVILY conservative and reactionary. Italian Fascism made a deal with the Vatican, which had rejected previous "classical liberal" governments as "modern degeneracy". Fascism rejected any role for women except as mothers and homemakers, and indeed the Italian fascist youth was rigidly segregated by sex. Italian fascism was all about celebrating the alleged traditions of the Roman Empire (from naming its youth section "Sons of the She-Wolf", reflecting the founding myth of Rome, to wanting to re-establish a "New Roman Empire" in the Mediterranean Sea). Italian fascism imposed old, obsolete and reactionary codes of conduct, like using the 2nd person plural ("voi") to address strangers.

Spanish fascism under Franco was explicitly religiously conservative, and highly supported by Catholic authorities. The same is true for Chilean fascism under Pinochet.

There was very, very little progressivism in fascism. Indeed the entirety of modernity, including modern art, was judged to be degenerate. Italian fascism was inspired by the EXPLICITLY anti-Enlightenment writings of Julius Evola, Charles Maurras and Rene Guenon, the same writings praised by alt-right favorites like Alexandr Dugin and Steve Bannon.
It’s your tendency to pronounce before you properly engage.

It’s a form of intellectual arrogance I’d normally commend as a great conversation starter.

Here though it appears you are fencing with strawmen. I’ve not read enough to gauge an argument I can (responsibly) engage with. But I do see there’s no claimed straight line from European Fascism to the American variant.

...
The early American progressive movement was highly authoritarian in its aspirations. Eugenics was largely a progressive movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. Woodrow Wilson, the great early expander of the federal government who was a hero to progressive historians through most of the 20th century, was a nasty piece of work. He was a virulent racist who segregated the civil service, made it a crime to voice opinions critical of the government or war effort and as governor before being president signed a bill making sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill compulsory in line with his overall belief in eugenics. The nascent fascist movements in Europe admired and studied Wilson's record. Yet, I recall in my teens a ranking put together by an association of historians in the U.S. that had Wilson as the second best president in history just behind Lincoln.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5241

Post by free thoughtpolice » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Eugenics was largely a progressive movemen
So you finally admit you are a genocidal maniac as well as serial slanderer. :P

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5242

Post by jugheadnaut » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:42 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Eugenics was largely a progressive movemen
So you finally admit you are a genocidal maniac as well as serial slanderer. :P
Wtf are you talking about, simpleton?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5243

Post by Keating » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:58 pm

There's a joke I like from Estonia:

Two policemen are walking along their beat during the heyday of the USSR.
One policeman asks the other "What do you think of the government?"
The second policeman, thinking quickly says "Same as you, comrade."
The first policeman responds "I'm sorry, I'm going to have to arrest you for thinking ill of the government."

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5244

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:30 am

I went in to work for a few hours, and when I came back, the whole house reeked of gas
PZ’s book writing sabbatical is over? Almost before it began ....

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5245

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:45 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
That's the dumbest pile of bollocks I've read in quite a long time.

Fascism was a movement which was HEAVILY conservative and reactionary. Italian Fascism made a deal with the Vatican, which had rejected previous "classical liberal" governments as "modern degeneracy". Fascism rejected any role for women except as mothers and homemakers, and indeed the Italian fascist youth was rigidly segregated by sex. Italian fascism was all about celebrating the alleged traditions of the Roman Empire (from naming its youth section "Sons of the She-Wolf", reflecting the founding myth of Rome, to wanting to re-establish a "New Roman Empire" in the Mediterranean Sea). Italian fascism imposed old, obsolete and reactionary codes of conduct, like using the 2nd person plural ("voi") to address strangers.

Spanish fascism under Franco was explicitly religiously conservative, and highly supported by Catholic authorities. The same is true for Chilean fascism under Pinochet.

There was very, very little progressivism in fascism. Indeed the entirety of modernity, including modern art, was judged to be degenerate. Italian fascism was inspired by the EXPLICITLY anti-Enlightenment writings of Julius Evola, Charles Maurras and Rene Guenon, the same writings praised by alt-right favorites like Alexandr Dugin and Steve Bannon.
It’s your tendency to pronounce before you properly engage.

It’s a form of intellectual arrogance I’d normally commend as a great conversation starter.

Here though it appears you are fencing with strawmen. I’ve not read enough to gauge an argument I can (responsibly) engage with. But I do see there’s no claimed straight line from European Fascism to the American variant.

Maybe you should first :o understand the POV you seek to demolish with erudite ease ....

http://i.imgur.com/Q30aEJY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cvQTbdi.jpg
This looks a lot like a post-modern "deconstruction" of fascism, the kind that George Orwell would scoff at.

Fascism isn't simply every form of authoritarianism, otherwise the word loses any meaning, and you can call Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot "fascists" (as many hardcore communists do, to distance themselves from them).

Fascism requires the goal of having a superior people, or a superior culture, dominate socially and politically and exclude and marginalize others by any means. By contrast authoritarian leftism, from the Red Guards right down the SocJus, is all about the alleged goal of forcing equality of outcome and of thought by any possible mean. Fascism privileges tradition, communism (and the SocJus) look forward to an utopian future. Fascism is all about the idea that human beings work in cultural collectives and any change or mixing of those collectives is "decadence", communism is all about building the "new socialist man" which is oriented to the benefit of the entire community, against their own private interests, and any resistance to the forced communal collectivization is "oppression".

All forms of authoritarian control are incompatible with the rules of liberal democracy, and so attack the freedom of the press, division of powers, presumption of innocence, the limits of the executive power, and dissent. But that's because those are limits on authority, which clash with the authoritarian means of fascism AND communism (and the anti-Enlightenment aims of Critical Race Theory/the SocJus as well).

The difference between right-wing authoritarianism and left-wing authoritarianism is not about their tools, but about their aims, and who gets targeted by their authoritarian means. Right-wing authoritarianism targets sexual, religious, ethnic minorities, and everyone who is seen as straining too much from the traditional path. Left-wing authoritarianism targets anyone who is seen as being an obstacle to the road of collective progress.

That's a very important difference. The radical racial and gender equality of collective outcomes by any means, preached by the SocJus, targets anyone who doesn't think that ALL differences of outcome are the product of "Oppression", like anyone who points out that men and women TEND to have different career choices, which explains at least SOME of the gender pay gap, or that racial differences in rates of commission of crimes are real (whatever their origins might be) and aren't simply a product of a racist justice system. On the other hand the explicitly neo-fascist and neo-nazi movements target anyone who is seen as a disruptive "other" who cannot EVER assimilate, or any "lib-tard" who isn't on board with the idea of ethno-states.

By calling it all "fascism" you're muddying the waters, and creating a non-falsifiable definition that is completely useless. The SocJus does the same thing when they talk about idiotic things like "fascist beauty standards" or "micro-fascism".

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5246

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:50 am

Brive1987 wrote: Kirb. Be honest.

Are you a “friendly fascist”?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/ori ... 10/625.png
Considering that I've never supported any form of authoritarian censorship or quashing of dissent, or any attack to presumption of innocence, or separation of powers, of limits to political power in general, and that I've pointed out how corporations, from Google to Patreon, have WAY too much power and consequently risk bringing forth authoritarian censorship, I don't see how you can call me authoritarian, let alone a "fascist".

Unless you consider all dissent and criticism of your positions to be oppression and fascism, in which case you have a pretty skewed version of what fascism is.

But then again you apparently don't consider Alexandr Dugin, a supported of "fascist fascism", to be a source of bad ideas, so I don't think you're the most qualified person to discuss what fascism is.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5247

Post by KiwiInOz » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:53 am

Keating wrote: There's a joke I like from Estonia:

Two policemen are walking along their beat during the heyday of the USSR.
One policeman asks the other "What do you think of the government?"
The second policeman, thinking quickly says "Same as you, comrade."
The first policeman responds "I'm sorry, I'm going to have to arrest you for thinking ill of the government."
I've just come back from the Woodford Folk Festival where Trad.Attack, from Estonia, played. A great fun band who even rock up the rhyme enie meanie Mo (in Estonian).

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5248

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:56 am

What's interesting is that even by the standards of absolute freedom of speech and dialogue, according to which blocking is censorship, I'm the one who has engaged with everyone on this board and hasn't blocked anyone. Lots of people who whined about the BlockBot ended up blocking me because they didn't like my criticism of their opinions.

I'm not sure those standards work (refusing a conversation isn't censorship, for a start, otherwise everyone should be compelled to have conversation with anyone else), but still, it's at least a little bit funny to see some of those who complained that FTB was an echo-chamber (which it was, and still is) trying to informally enforce some echo-chambers on the Pit.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5249

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:04 am

Well it does seem a bit echo-y around here at times.

There has been a slow erosion of some of the more left leaning types. (Perhaps due to their innate sensitivity - but who knows).

There was a trans member - at one time - possibly there were more - but not all of them may have identified themselves. In any case whoever they were - they have not piped up recently.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5250

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:11 am

Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5251

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:18 am

There was an outright alt-right guy that posted here sometime ago.

Perhaps you remember them...

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5252

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 am

jugheadnaut wrote: The early American progressive movement was highly authoritarian in its aspirations. Eugenics was largely a progressive movement in the late 19th and early 20th century. Woodrow Wilson, the great early expander of the federal government who was a hero to progressive historians through most of the 20th century, was a nasty piece of work. He was a virulent racist who segregated the civil service, made it a crime to voice opinions critical of the government or war effort and as governor before being president signed a bill making sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill compulsory in line with his overall belief in eugenics. The nascent fascist movements in Europe admired and studied Wilson's record. Yet, I recall in my teens a ranking put together by an association of historians in the U.S. that had Wilson as the second best president in history just behind Lincoln.
I don't doubt that some authoritarian elements existed in the early 20th century progressive movements, although whether they were exclusive of the Wilsonian progressivism or not is another issue. Eugenics was seen in a positive way by many American conservative groups as well, like the John Birch Society (Nelson Bunker Hunt and Jesse Helms, for example, were both members of the International Association for the Advancement of Eugenics and Ethnology). Indeed eugenics in its "milder" forms of forced sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill started to be publicly vilified only in relatively recent times, starting from the Civil Rights Era.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5253

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:38 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
This looks a lot like a post-modern "deconstruction" of fascism, the kind that George Orwell would scoff at.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had to stop there for a moment. George Orwell was the original pomo denier of fascism’s objective reality.

http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_ ... lish/efasc
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5254

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:43 am

Kirbmarc wrote: Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:
Was there a green flash when your parallel world branched off?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5255

Post by Bhurzum » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:55 am

MarcusAu wrote: There was an outright alt-right guy that posted here sometime ago.

Perhaps you remember them...
Did someone call my name? No? Fuck it, back to polishing my 14-ups...



/snigger

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5256

Post by Bhurzum » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:04 am

But seriously...yet again, the boys and girls at the top show how utterly clueless (and desperate) they are. I wish this was a joke...

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =540%2C830

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/03/army-tar ... h-8304476/

With the shift from "high intensity war-fighting" to "International policing" (and all that it entails), the MOD has really lost its edge. Add PC fixation to the mix and you end up with this - a desperate appeal for sub-standard raw material to fill the gaps caused by poor retention practices, spiraling undermanning and understandably low morale. I hate to say it but we're fucked!

Bring back crown immunity, savage training methods (there, I fucking said it), raise the bar and push retention like fuck - problem(s) solved in 2-3 rotations. Won't happen but a chap can dream.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5257

Post by Bhurzum » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:15 am

MarcusAu wrote: There was a trans member - at one time - possibly there were more - but not all of them may have identified themselves. In any case whoever they were - they have not piped up recently.
I'm sure there are better mental health websites...

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5258

Post by Keating » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:15 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:11 am
Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:
Maybe it's your self awareness?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5259

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:24 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:
Was there a green flash when your parallel world branched off?
Lsuoma blocked me so he won't listen to my "mewling". Matt Cavanaugh blocked m after the "Hatefacts" exposure which had a few people here cheering for an alt-right pastiche.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5260

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:30 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
This looks a lot like a post-modern "deconstruction" of fascism, the kind that George Orwell would scoff at.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had to stop there for a moment. George Orwell was the original pomo denier of fascism’s objective reality.

http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_ ... lish/efasc
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
What he is doing here is scoffing at the use of "fascism" as an evidence-free slur, pointing out how various sides are using the word as a club against people they don't like.

Which is definitely what Goldberg seems to be doing.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5261

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:31 am

Keating wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:15 am
Kirbmarc wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:11 am
Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:
Maybe it's your self awareness?
Maybe it's a problem of double standards?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5262

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:44 am

Bhurzum wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: There was a trans member - at one time - possibly there were more - but not all of them may have identified themselves. In any case whoever they were - they have not piped up recently.
I'm sure there are better mental health websites...
I have no comment to make on the state of the mental health of any of the posters here...

...but if you are experiencing problems please seek the help of a professional.

Now, while there is still time.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5263

Post by Bhurzum » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:52 am

MarcusAu wrote: I have no comment to make on the state of the mental health of any of the posters here...

...but if you are experiencing problems please seek the help of a professional.

Now, while there is still time.
https://media.giphy.com/media/i48JkZQQHmdZ6/giphy.gif

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5264

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:54 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
This looks a lot like a post-modern "deconstruction" of fascism, the kind that George Orwell would scoff at.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had to stop there for a moment. George Orwell was the original pomo denier of fascism’s objective reality.

http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_ ... lish/efasc
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
What he is doing here is scoffing at the use of "fascism" as an evidence-free slur, pointing out how various sides are using the word as a club against people they don't like.

Which is definitely what Goldberg seems to be doing.
He is also saying the word has no objective meaning beyond “bully”.

Which makes your definition no more valid than Goldberg’s.

http://i.imgur.com/x6BRlP2.jpg

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5265

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:55 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Bhurzum wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: There was a trans member - at one time - possibly there were more - but not all of them may have identified themselves. In any case whoever they were - they have not piped up recently.
I'm sure there are better mental health websites...
I have no comment to make on the state of the mental health of any of the posters here...

...but if you are experiencing problems please seek the help of a professional.

Now, while there is still time.
Now that’s just crazy.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5266

Post by Brive1987 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:10 am

Bhurzum wrote: But seriously...yet again, the boys and girls at the top show how utterly clueless (and desperate) they are. I wish this was a joke...

[img..]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =540%2C830[/img]

ht..tps://metro.co.uk/2019/01/03/army-targets-snowflakes-selfie-addicts-phone-zombies-recruitment-push-8304476/

With the shift from "high intensity war-fighting" to "International policing" (and all that it entails), the MOD has really lost its edge. Add PC fixation to the mix and you end up with this - a desperate appeal for sub-standard raw material to fill the gaps caused by poor retention practices, spiraling undermanning and understandably low morale. I hate to say it but we're fucked!

Bring back crown immunity, savage training methods (there, I fucking said it), raise the bar and push retention like fuck - problem(s) solved in 2-3 rotations. Won't happen but a chap can dream.




I guess it’s a step up from the “stop the patrol I gotta pray” pitch :?

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5267

Post by John D » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Bhurzum wrote: But seriously...yet again, the boys and girls at the top show how utterly clueless (and desperate) they are. I wish this was a joke...

[img..]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =540%2C830[/img]

ht..tps://metro.co.uk/2019/01/03/army-targets-snowflakes-selfie-addicts-phone-zombies-recruitment-push-8304476/

With the shift from "high intensity war-fighting" to "International policing" (and all that it entails), the MOD has really lost its edge. Add PC fixation to the mix and you end up with this - a desperate appeal for sub-standard raw material to fill the gaps caused by poor retention practices, spiraling undermanning and understandably low morale. I hate to say it but we're fucked!

Bring back crown immunity, savage training methods (there, I fucking said it), raise the bar and push retention like fuck - problem(s) solved in 2-3 rotations. Won't happen but a chap can dream.
I guess it’s a step up from the “stop the patrol I gotta pray” pitch :?
Oh my fucking god. Really... this is the state of recruiting for the faggot, snowflake, video game playing British Army? Wow. Fucked is right.


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5268

Post by John D » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:50 am

"Watkins, why did you join the army?"

"For the water skiing and the travel sir!"


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5269

Post by screwtape » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:15 am

You know, it's perfectly true that there was confusion when i fascisti formed. Socialism wasn't so well-defined, and many people saw fascism as a form of socialism. Maybe it can still be looked at as cultural (even National!) socialism rather than economic socialism. And it's probably true that Mussolini was happy to gain adherents (and votes) from anyone at first, and may have presented the party as all things to all men.

One thing that has become quite clear with time is that the left-right political spectrum doesn't have totalitarian parties fitting naturally at each end. Communism, and fascism seem to fit better on an axis orthogonal to the left-right spectrum, since they pick and choose facets from each part of that spectrum as it suits them. Communism may be as authoritarian as Hitler, and fascism can provide enlightened social programs; both are a grab bag of conventional politics mixed with their own non-democratic features. I find it easier to understand them all this way.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5270

Post by Tigzy » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:18 am

Regarding the 'progressive roots of fascism' thing: I think both Goldberg and Kirb are a little off the mark in viewing fascism as essentially monolithic, though in general, Kirb is correct - and Goldberg is mistaken in attributing a progressive root to fascism.

Fascism, like many ideologies, has certain grey areas, and in those areas some progressive ideas and concepts can find a home - though again, I must emphasise that this is not the same as stating that those progressive ideas serve as some sort of foundation for fascism. In the case of Mosley's British Union of Fascists, the most notable progressive attribute arrived in how attractive it was to the proto-feminists of the Suffragette movement. The reasons why this odd marriage of British fascism and early feminism occurred are complex, and can't really be put down to a single pat explanation - but what is notable in this pretty good Slate article on the matter - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... women.html - is that Mosley determined that his brand of fascism needed a distinctly British character in order to appeal to the folk of his country, and this character appealed, for a variety of reasons, to a lot of prominent Suffragettes.

In all, no, there's no progressive basis for fascism as a general idea. However, when it comes to the more nebulous aspects of the ideology which can offer various 'flavours' of fascism, then progressivism hardly has clean hands.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5271

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:12 am

Boy Einstein - aka Super Dave Osbourne - son of Parkyakarkus and brother to Albert Brooks - is dead.

2019 seems a little bit less funny than it used to.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5272

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:14 am

*Bob

It's been a while since he was a boy. (Though I'm hopin gI got 'Parkyakarkus' right).

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5273

Post by Kirbmarc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:29 am

Tigzy wrote: Regarding the 'progressive roots of fascism' thing: I think both Goldberg and Kirb are a little off the mark in viewing fascism as essentially monolithic, though in general, Kirb is correct - and Goldberg is mistaken in attributing a progressive root to fascism.

Fascism, like many ideologies, has certain grey areas, and in those areas some progressive ideas and concepts can find a home - though again, I must emphasise that this is not the same as stating that those progressive ideas serve as some sort of foundation for fascism. In the case of Mosley's British Union of Fascists, the most notable progressive attribute arrived in how attractive it was to the proto-feminists of the Suffragette movement. The reasons why this odd marriage of British fascism and early feminism occurred are complex, and can't really be put down to a single pat explanation - but what is notable in this pretty good Slate article on the matter - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... women.html - is that Mosley determined that his brand of fascism needed a distinctly British character in order to appeal to the folk of his country, and this character appealed, for a variety of reasons, to a lot of prominent Suffragettes.

In all, no, there's no progressive basis for fascism as a general idea. However, when it comes to the more nebulous aspects of the ideology which can offer various 'flavours' of fascism, then progressivism hardly has clean hands.
I'm not doubting that different forms of fascism had different inspirations, and that some forms of less conservative fascism existed (Strasserism, for example, incorporated several anti-corporate and proto-syndacalist ideas, before Hitler purged the Nazis out of the Strasserites). However the common core of fascism is about supremacy of a certain ethnicity, culture or "cultural collective" over others.

British fascism was about British cultural supremacy, and so it was different from Italian fascism (let alone German Nazism). British culture, as a whole, was very likely more progressive than Italian or even German culture (the Scottish Enlightenment, the English rationalism, etc. etc. vs Italian Catholicism and German Romanticism). An early 20th century British person could justifiably look at the parliament or the habeas corpus as a "British tradition": this wasn't the case in Italy or Germany, which didn't even existed as a nation before the late 19th century.

The biggest mistake of Goldberg's is to downplay the "cultural supremacy" and "tradition" aspect of fascism in favor of a generic reference to authoritarianism. Not all authoritarian regimes are or were fascist: Soviet Russia, Communist China and Cuba, Cambodia, etc., were NOT AT ALL about "cultural supremacy" or "tradition", indeed they were about FORCIBLY eradicating traditions and culture (the New Soviet Man, the Cultural Revolution, the Cambobian Genocide). This doesn't mean that they weren't authoritarian, or tyrannical, or bloodthirsty.

I'm not denying that pursuing allegedly progressive ideas through authoritarian means is bad. Hell, the SocJus is a modern example of pursuing some progressive ideas (and some not-so-progressive identitarian ideas) through authoritarian means. I'm denying that it can be reasonably called "fascism", unless "fascism" is used as a synonym of "authoritarian regime". I'm also arguing that Goldberg is trying to absolve conservatism from its ties to fascism by blaming progressivism for fascism, which is more than a bit dishonest.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5274

Post by InfraRedBucket » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:39 am

Well kings and Queens History isnt my thing usually but just sat through this - can't vouch for its accuracy in details.


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5275

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:43 am

screwtape wrote: You know, it's perfectly true that there was confusion when i fascisti formed. Socialism wasn't so well-defined, and many people saw fascism as a form of socialism. Maybe it can still be looked at as cultural (even National!) socialism rather than economic socialism. And it's probably true that Mussolini was happy to gain adherents (and votes) from anyone at first, and may have presented the party as all things to all men.
I've always liked Umberto Eco's 14=point, "family resemblance" checklist for fascism:
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/ (paywall -- PM me for a pdf of the article.)

Any more restrictive definition is practically useless.

One thing that has become quite clear with time is that the left-right political spectrum doesn't have totalitarian parties fitting naturally at each end. Communism, and fascism seem to fit better on an axis orthogonal to the left-right spectrum, since they pick and choose facets from each part of that spectrum as it suits them. Communism may be as authoritarian as Hitler, and fascism can provide enlightened social programs; both are a grab bag of conventional politics mixed with their own non-democratic features. I find it easier to understand them all this way.
Whenever the 'political spectrum' comes up, I mention The Political Compass. A lot of Pitizens took it a while back; most landed in the lower left quadrant or slightly to the right. Communism & fascism land in the upper left & upper right quadrants, respectively.

https://www.politicalcompass.org

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5276

Post by screwtape » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:30 am

Not the world's best video, but here's a lecture on the Marxist origins of fascism:


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5277

Post by Steersman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Me: "There are some authoritarian tendencies in the Social Justice left, what with the idea of dissent being offensive and offense needing to be quashed, which produces memes like "mansplaining" or "stay in your lane" or "words are violence". This is a potential danger, as seen many times in academia"

Many Pitters: "Nailed it! Nailed it! Yeeees!"

Me: "There some authoritarian tendencies in the alt-right(anti-SocJus movement, what with the idea of collective guilt and existential threats meaning that some ideas having to be not just criticized, but somehow eliminated from public discourse since they're seen as a threat to tradition and order, and called "lib-tardism". This is a potential danger, as seen, for example, in Hungary"

Many Pitters: "Fuck off libtard. I won't listen your pathetic mewling." *blocked*

:think:
Was there a green flash when your parallel world branched off?
:lol: Contender for a BPE ... ;-)

But kind of amusing this battle royale over the definition for "fascism" - see "No True Scotsman" .... One might suggest going back to the "fundamentals" - so to speak:
Fascism: The Italian term fascismo is derived from fascio meaning a bundle of rods, ultimately from the Latin word fasces.[21] This was the name given to political organizations in Italy known as fasci, groups similar to guilds or syndicates. ...

Fasces (English: /ˈfæsiːz/, Latin: [ˈfa.skeːs]; a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle";[1] Italian: fascio littorio) is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction. ....
No doubt there are some rather "problematic" connotations to the word, although you might note, in the second link, the large number of more mainstream and credible institutions and organizations who include that symbol in their coats of arms. Think far too many are conflating that more or less credible principle with the stereotypical attributes of SOME who fly that flag.

Apropos of which, a Medium post which, while badly flawed on a number of points - how categories work for example, does make some valid arguments, and amusing observations:
Non-Binary Genders, Neologisms, and Question-Begging

New semantics seem to be entering public discourse and academia at an alarming rate. From ‘trans kids’, to ‘intersectionality’, ‘Islamophobia’, ‘TERFs’, the ‘Alt Right’ and ‘liberal eugenics’, many new terms have been unquestioningly adopted and incorporated into our everyday vocabulary. With new words come new ideas, and sometimes these neologisms function as Trojan horses. Often, when we accept that proffered neologisms are meaningful (e.g. by using them) we have already granted too much theoretical ground to those who introduced them in the first place. ....

The solution to question-begging neologisms is to actually pose the questions these words beg. In practice, this means not adopting new words until you have scrutinised what they really mean. When we deploy new semantics unscrupulously, we might unwittingly allow issues to be framed in particular ways. This is because the terms used are loaded; they contain assumptions that need to be argued for. Unpack the assumptions implicit in words before deploying them in your language. .....

Don’t just use new words; interrogate them first.
Indeed. If we don't define our terms at the outset (* cough "female" *cough) then we just wind up chasing our tails - amusing, but not much progress is made.

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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5278

Post by Lsuoma » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:20 pm

BBC does a story on the Army snowflake recruiting campaign: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46747862

Reminds me of this:


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5279

Post by Steersman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:40 pm

Lsuoma wrote: BBC does a story on the Army snowflake recruiting campaign: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46747862

Reminds me of this:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUhl_QAk6mY
LoL. Though I think Gilbert & Sullivan were ahead of the curve, and by some 140 years:


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Re: Naked fat black crippled dykes are hard to find...

#5280

Post by MarcusAu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:16 pm

I'd heard that Gilbert & Sullivan hated each other - based on their work I can see why.

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