There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14041

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.

Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14042

Post by Shatterface »

HxA Open Mind Award Blog: Alice Dreger

Alice Dreger video up at Heterodox Academy:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/hxa-open-m ... ce-dreger/

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14043

Post by Shatterface »

Ape+lust wrote: Postponed -- AGAIN!! -- until tomorrow.

Locked? Sounds iffy.

https://cdn.thisiswhyimbroke.com/images ... 00x250.jpg

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14044

Post by Shatterface »

free thoughtpolice wrote: Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.
Bookmarked for later. I'm fascinated by this.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14045

Post by comhcinc »

Shatterface wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.
Youtume
Bookmarked for later. I'm fascinated by this.
I watched about half of it last night. Kudos to Tfoot. It seems he actually took the time to investigate this. To me gives some of his other videos more credence.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14046

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Ape+lust wrote: So, I guess the plan is to feed him until he explodes?

https://imgur.com/fqc7Zne.jpg

4 months ago...

https://imgur.com/1qzCK5v.jpg
I think psychiatric meds can cause bloating like this, though screwtape or similar would be a more reliable source of info.

InfraRedBucket
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14047

Post by InfraRedBucket »

comhcinc wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.
Youtume
Bookmarked for later. I'm fascinated by this.
I watched about half of it last night. Kudos to Tfoot. It seems he actually took the time to investigate this. To me gives some of his other videos more credence.
I remember the days when TFoot's videos used to last about the time it takes to get to Mars and back.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14048

Post by Steersman »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Oh.

I think I found Steers cutting argument that gave Kirb a quiver:

Differences between Western Countries pale in comparison to Islam and are therefore superficial.

Furthermore .....
I still think that most of what you call "a cultural and national identity" is mostly superficialities, a weak reed to be putting much faith in. Or build a movement on.
Well. I still think you are wrong. So nah.
Nope. Read the sentence again.
Those differences can't be all that important to the functioning of various societies if they're absent in many of them that happen to share a great many other values.
You were pushing the idea that "sports, music, foundation stories" were as important as values. Steersman (credit is where credit is due) pointed out that "sports, music, foundation stories" aren't common to countries that instead share sets of values. Even you don't really care about the waves of Italian or Greek immigrants who certainly didn't have "sports, music, foundation stories" in common with the Old Stock British Australians, but are greatly concerned about the Chinese or Indian immigrants. ....
Wow! High praise indeed! Almost as high as "Kirbman or Steersmarc" .... ;-)
Kirbmarc wrote: This isn't about islam, at least not directly. This is about the fundamental arbitrary sets of characteristics that you think are important or necessary when it comes to your argument against Chinese or Indian immigration (or, yes, immigration from muslim majority countries) but NOT when it comes to Italian or Greek immigration.
Indeed. Interesting argument - I find it so in any case - as to what are essential elements of various structures - those which contribute to their "irreducible complexity" (so to speak), whether they are objects like cars or whether they're individuals or societies. Some justification for the philosophy of essentialism, but "gender essentialism" looks to be predicated on some serious and untenable woo, on some highly questionable "motivated reasoning".

Seems reasonable to argue that there are two kinds of people (those who understand binary and those who don't ....) since a rather large number of genes exist with only two alleles. But it seems a stretch to argue or insist that they uniquely correlate with a particular sex, with the ability to produce a particular gamete. Whole pile of fuzzy if not egregiously dogmatic thinking involved in the issue.
Kirbmarc wrote: The problem, Brive, is that your definitions of what is important or necessary are muddled, confused, and conflate the issue of the rule of law with the issue of long-term integration and with cultural clash or cultural contact. The specific problems of islam are a side issue, that you usually don't devote much time to.

The whole "ethnic identity" argument is a mess anyway. At best it's nostalgia for the past, at worst it MIGHT (and I stress MIGHT before you pitch a fit) be used to justify racism.
"nostaglia" - quite right; Brive seems a bit young to be telling people - me in particular - to be getting off his lawn ... ;-)

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14049

Post by Shatterface »

Ape+lust wrote: So, I guess the plan is to feed him until he explodes?

https://imgur.com/fqc7Zne.jpg
Maybe they're testing Supersoldier Donuts on him.

https://i.imgur.com/xKSRuQm.jpg

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14050

Post by Steersman »

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:That aside, sport, music, foundation stories, language and idiom, civic exercises and shared history et al are as important (or more so) for the vast bulk of law abiding citizens than abstract “western” ideals.
Steersman wrote:Those differences can't be all that important to the functioning of various societies if they're absent in many of them that happen to share a great many other values.
When Steersman, he of "population transfers", points out a major flaw in your identitarian right-wing approach, things are quite bad.
I didn’t actually understand Steersman’s point, he seemed to be mapping aspects of unique national identity to .... ummm, things .... to suggest they umm .. aren’t important ?

Typical. There is never a wall of words when you need one.
Maybe because your pre-judgements - AKA, your prejudices, your unexamined assumptions - are getting in the way?

That some aspects or features of a system make it "unique" hardly makes those aspects essential to the underlying system itself. Somewhat analogously ("the core of cognition"!), snowflakes exist in a great many forms, but a specific form isn't essential to the existence of snowflakes in general.

You may wish to take a course in critical thinking - this oldish post from Sharon Hill might help: American society ignores learning how to think critically – it’s hardly surprising where we ended up. Good luck! ;-)

HelpingHand
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14051

Post by HelpingHand »

The story of the road raging man who assaulted two lesbian women in central Oregon got a fair amount of press coverage. Broke the arm of one and knocked the other unconscious. Not to my surprise, there was a call for pitchforks and torches for this prime example of toxic masculinity. To my surprise, the later oh-maybe-that-narrative-was-not-correct has actually been getting some press.

http://katu.com/news/local/deschutes-co ... -rage-case

comhcinc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14052

Post by comhcinc »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.
Youtume
Bookmarked for later. I'm fascinated by this.
I watched about half of it last night. Kudos to Tfoot. It seems he actually took the time to investigate this. To me gives some of his other videos more credence.
I remember the days when TFoot's videos used to last about the time it takes to get to Mars and back.
This one is not short but he has gotten better at not repeating himself over and over.

Steersman
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14053

Post by Steersman »

Hallelujah brother! The times, they are a-changin'. :-) Can full-scale "population transfers" be far behind? ;-)

In any case, I might try passing that along to ACT! For Canada which acts as kind of a clearing house for information and discussion on the perfidy of Islam and "the Muslim question". A fairly comprehensive source with weekly newsletters that everyone might take a gander at, and not just we Canucks.

Of some related interest, the most recent one had a series of stories/links on Tommy Robinson, and that, as discussed in a Post Millennial article by Barbara Kay, the head-honcho there - Valerie Price - had been instrumental in "raising over £20,000 for Robinson’s legal defence".

InfraRedBucket
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14054

Post by InfraRedBucket »

comhcinc wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Someone brought up the helicopter on Mars proposal.
Youtume
Bookmarked for later. I'm fascinated by this.
I watched about half of it last night. Kudos to Tfoot. It seems he actually took the time to investigate this. To me gives some of his other videos more credence.
I remember the days when TFoot's videos used to last about the time it takes to get to Mars and back.
This one is not short but he has gotten better at not repeating himself over and over.
I've not watched a load but I think it might be more the non science / anti SJW type videos where he repeatedly drives home the same point.
-

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14055

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

HelpingHand wrote: The story of the road raging man who assaulted two lesbian women in central Oregon got a fair amount of press coverage. Broke the arm of one and knocked the other unconscious. Not to my surprise, there was a call for pitchforks and torches for this prime example of toxic masculinity. To my surprise, the later oh-maybe-that-narrative-was-not-correct has actually been getting some press.

http://katu.com/news/local/deschutes-co ... -rage-case
That's some good news. I have to wonder how much reporting on the ladie's malfeasance would have been done had it occurred in Portland. I have doubts that the Willamette Weekly would have done any follow-up.

comhcinc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14056

Post by comhcinc »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
I've not watched a load but I think it might be more the non science / anti SJW type videos where he repeatedly drives home the same point.
-
No pretty much any "debunk" video he does he seems to feel like he needs to say the same thing about 20 times.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14057

Post by free thoughtpolice »


comhcinc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14058

Post by comhcinc »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
HelpingHand wrote: The story of the road raging man who assaulted two lesbian women in central Oregon got a fair amount of press coverage. Broke the arm of one and knocked the other unconscious. Not to my surprise, there was a call for pitchforks and torches for this prime example of toxic masculinity. To my surprise, the later oh-maybe-that-narrative-was-not-correct has actually been getting some press.

http://katu.com/news/local/deschutes-co ... -rage-case
That's some good news. I have to wonder how much reporting on the ladie's malfeasance would have been done had it occurred in Portland. I have doubts that the Willamette Weekly would have done any follow-up.
Trashy lesbians are the craziest.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14060

Post by AndrewV69 »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 am
We've all made fun of PeeZee for his hypocrisy about "believing the victims" while being the one who "zoomed" and was concerned about his career when he was the one accused of sexual harassment.

I guess the Pit is a haven for intellectual elitists.
I am finding this back and forth to be both educational and entertaining.

KiwiInOz
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14061

Post by KiwiInOz »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:21 am
snip

The matter isn't whether people see the world in different ways (which is a banal observation) it's whether those ways are communicable and comparable. I can certainly understand that for someone who's on a wheelchair on a ramp is stairs is a problem. I don't need some secret, esoteric "disabled way of knowing" to understand this, just the ability to put myself in this person's shoes (or chair).

Non-disabled people can see the lack of a ramp and make it so that there is one, if necessary.
http://s3.spanglefish.com/s/36691/pictu ... stairs.jpg

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14062

Post by Brive1987 »

Steersman wrote:
That some aspects or features of a system make it "unique" hardly makes those aspects essential to the underlying system itself. Somewhat analogously ("the core of cognition"!), snowflakes exist in a great many forms, but a specific form isn't essential to the existence of snowflakes in general.
Oh. So your point was as banal as it appeared.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14063

Post by d4m10n »

Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: No-one is completely correct or completely wrong. The right though appear more closely aligned to my concerns and their message of trad-identity as a solution to obvious problems and as an organising principle makes sense. So they are righter than most.
Identity politics: IOWWDI :mrgreen:

Okay, but seriously, which significant social problems can be solved by elevating identity over values?
Politics (from Greek: πολιτικά, translit. Politiká, meaning "affairs of the cities") is the process of making decisions that apply to members of a group.

I struggle to see how politics can be separated from group identity of one description or another. Including those people espousing ideologies which *must* conform to social or classical liberal thought.

I also struggle to see how you can effectively divorce values from the social identity from which they derive and over which they have sway. So your question is poorly formed: effective values come from cogent identity.
It is difficult to say how we could scientifically falsify or verify this contention (even by the relatively lax standards of political or social science) but this certainly has not been my experience.

I've known ___________ who profoundly value stability, family, and work ethic.

I've known ___________ who place far more value on near term pleasure, eschewing stability, family, and work.

You can fill in the blanks from memory with loads of group identities (e.g. Hispanic Catholics, WASPs, secular Jews, New Age hippies, Buddhist Asian-Americans) once you've gotten to know enough people.

Maybe I'm mischaracterizing what you're really getting at, though. Which specific values flow from "traditional identity," whatever that means?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14064

Post by MarcusAu »

d4m10n wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: No-one is completely correct or completely wrong. The right though appear more closely aligned to my concerns and their message of trad-identity as a solution to obvious problems and as an organising principle makes sense. So they are righter than most.
Identity politics: IOWWDI :mrgreen:

Okay, but seriously, which significant social problems can be solved by elevating identity over values?
Politics (from Greek: πολιτικά, translit. Politiká, meaning "affairs of the cities") is the process of making decisions that apply to members of a group.

I struggle to see how politics can be separated from group identity of one description or another. Including those people espousing ideologies which *must* conform to social or classical liberal thought.

I also struggle to see how you can effectively divorce values from the social identity from which they derive and over which they have sway. So your question is poorly formed: effective values come from cogent identity.
It is difficult to say how we could scientifically falsify or verify this contention (even by the relatively lax standards of political or social science) but this certainly has not been my experience.

I've known ___________ who profoundly value stability, family, and work ethic.

I've known ___________ who place far more value on near term pleasure, eschewing stability, family, and work.

You can fill in the blanks from memory with loads of group identities (e.g. Hispanic Catholics, WASPs, secular Jews, New Age hippies, Buddhist Asian-Americans) once you've gotten to know enough people.

Maybe I'm mischaracterizing what you're really getting at, though. Which specific values flow from "traditional identity," whatever that means?
Does this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDouXeHQ7s4

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14065

Post by Really? »

Ape+lust wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:56 am
So, I guess the plan is to feed him until he explodes?

https://imgur.com/fqc7Zne.jpg

4 months ago...

https://imgur.com/1qzCK5v.jpg
Now he is going to have an even harder time getting girls to like him.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14066

Post by Brive1987 »

Kirbmarc wrote: muddled
Kirbmarc wrote:
What Dugin is doing, when talking about individual and group identity, is undermining one of the main principles of the Western democracies, namely individual rights, human rights, as described by the Declaration of Rights of Man.

Dugin is attempting to justify the authoritarian measures of the Putin regime as a "defense of the collective identity": they're not killing or imprisoning critics to violate rights, they're doing it to "defend the collective" (Goebbels would have talked about "Volk", islamists would have talked about the "Ummah").

Textbook authoritarianism.

The problem isn't whether "collective identities" exist or not. They exist, although they're not as monolithic as Dugin (or, incidentally, the SJWs, with their focus on how "identity" is the measure of all things) seems to think: they change over time, they mix (this is what SJWs call "cultural appropriation"), etc.

The point is about WHAT you defend through LAWS. Do you base your political and justice system on individual rights, or do you base them on "collective identities"? This is a VERY important distinction.

If you base your politics and justice system on "collective identities" then it's very easy to justify violations of individual rights: the critics of this governmental policy was "harming the collective", the homosexuals, by not reproducing, are being parasites of the "collective", the mentally ill or "work-shy" are similarly dragging down the "collective", etc. etc.

It's not a surprise that Dugin admires Stalin, or the SS, for their focus on collectivism.
The converse to your concerns is also true. Collective cohesion is threatened by rampant individual rights.

One always surrenders individual rights to the collective. The question is to what extent and to what end. You seem to rush to extremes to prove your point. Which is a lazy approach. See if you can make an argument that doesn’t include the SS and mass murder.

My position is that we need to turn the dial right a few notches to attain a reasonable balance.

In Russia, an argument could be made that your liberal democracy would put a stake through the heart of the collective and result in net negative happiness. They may well benefit from having clicked the dial with more gusto.

The simple fact is the jury remains out on modern day liberal democracy (ie post WWI), especially in Europe. The post Cold War expression of this system may well accomplish what two conflagrations failed to achieve. [Insert the requisite Churchill quote here]

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14067

Post by DrokkIt »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm
If we are to make any traction on this issue, us sane folks need to stick to 'sex' and not conflate it with 'gender.'
This is it, in a nutshell. I'm unconvinced there is such a thing as 'gender', and nothing I've read on the subject seems very compelling- it's a spook.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14068

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

DfgaqXnWAAEYxNg.jpeg
(32.65 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/18/man-rape ... ssion=true

Not the right approach for incels, IMHO.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14069

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

DrokkIt wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm
If we are to make any traction on this issue, us sane folks need to stick to 'sex' and not conflate it with 'gender.'
This is it, in a nutshell. I'm unconvinced there is such a thing as 'gender', and nothing I've read on the subject seems very compelling- it's a spook.
It seems an important question as to whether society doubles down on the notion of sex being constructed socially as part of gender or if we back away from the precipice and embrace non-ideological, real science. Place your bets.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14070

Post by Steersman »

Brive1987 wrote:
Steersman wrote:
That some aspects or features of a system make it "unique" hardly makes those aspects essential to the underlying system itself. Somewhat analogously ("the core of cognition"!), snowflakes exist in a great many forms, but a specific form isn't essential to the existence of snowflakes in general.
Oh. So your point was as banal as it appeared.
LoL. To the shallow, all things appear so; eye of the beholder and all that.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14071

Post by Shatterface »

DrokkIt wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm
If we are to make any traction on this issue, us sane folks need to stick to 'sex' and not conflate it with 'gender.'
This is it, in a nutshell. I'm unconvinced there is such a thing as 'gender', and nothing I've read on the subject seems very compelling- it's a spook.
'Gender' just seems to boil down to expectations. Some of those expectations might reflect innate statistical differences between the sexes but a shit-load are just cultural. But now girls who climb trees are being told they're boys and they should bind their breasts. Boys who play with dolls are told they must be girls. And this is because 'sex' has given way to 'gender'.

I honestly think this might all be down to a euphemism that got out of hand. People started using 'gender' because 'sex' also refers to the act of intercourse. So nobody wants to talk about the 'sex' of their children because that's paedophilia. So kids have 'gender' instead. And 'gender' doesn't match sex exactly because some people don't conform to gender stereotypes. But once you cut gender loose from sex anyone can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

So we have to reclaim the word sex. Remind people that when we are taking about sport we are talking about the sex of the athletes, not how they dress up. That when we are taking about medicine we are talking about how we have different needs according to our sex, not gender. That when we are taking about all women short lists, whether you support them are not, we are talking about something meant to address an imbalance in the sexes, not an imbalance between people who wear trousers or skirts.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14072

Post by Steersman »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm
If we are to make any traction on this issue, us sane folks need to stick to 'sex' and not conflate it with 'gender.'
This is it, in a nutshell. I'm unconvinced there is such a thing as 'gender', and nothing I've read on the subject seems very compelling- it's a spook.
It seems an important question as to whether society doubles down on the notion of sex being constructed socially as part of gender or if we back away from the precipice and embrace non-ideological, real science. Place your bets.
I'd go with the latter of course. Though the question there is what's "real science"?, or which branch of science are we to have first recourse to. And, as I've argued, it seems that taxonomy answers the latter question at least:
Taxonomy (from Ancient Greek τάξις (taxis), meaning 'arrangement', and -νομία (-nomia), meaning 'method') is the science of defining and naming groups of biological organisms on the basis of shared characteristics. ....
Don't think many people quite get the idea that words are in fact "socially constructed", that we have created particular combinations of sounds and letters to refer to "brute facts" which are presumably anything but that.

And one might therefore reasonably ask whether it is true or not that people - and most mammals by the look of it - can be divided, reproductively speaking, into three mutually exclusive classes: those who produce ova, those who produce sperm, and those who produce neither. And point out that, by convention, the first are called female, the second are called male, and the third are generally called infertile into which are lumped the prepubescent, the intersex, and "menopausees".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14073

Post by Shatterface »

We really need to jump down the throats of anyone who uses the term gender inappropriately, especially when they use it about animals. It really pisses me off when someobody talks about fish that change gender, etc. No they fucking don't. Fish don't have gender.

Once people accept the biological basis for sex they can call themselves whatever 'gender' they want but it won't give them access to areas and resources allocated according to sex.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14074

Post by Steersman »

Shatterface wrote: <snip>

So we have to reclaim the word sex. Remind people that when we are taking about sport we are talking about the sex of the athletes, not how they dress up. That when we are taking about medicine we are talking about how we have different needs according to our sex, not gender. That when we are taking about all women short lists, whether you support them are not, we are talking about something meant to address an imbalance in the sexes, not an imbalance between people who wear trousers or skirts.
LoL. But indeed. Think the idea of "all women short lists" is a bit "problematic" at best - as affirmative action policies tend to be. But think that nutcases like Lily Madigan should be given short shrift, be told in no uncertain terms to piss off.

ICYMI, an article by Janice Turner in The Times several months ago, "Labour’s purge of the trans-rights heretics". Article was only free for a short time but here's a link to their Facebook page and a quote or two:
Labour’s purge of the trans-rights heretics
janice turner

Corbyn must decide if he’ll sacrifice allies who aren’t prepared to see women’s safety compromised for the sake of dogma

The question of transubstantiation has long divided Christians. Roman Catholics believe that during Holy Communion the wine is literally transformed into the blood of Christ, the bread literally becoming his body. Protestants held that the sacrament was symbolic or metaphorical, and for this were hounded as heretics.

Whenever I write about gender politics I receive angry chants of “trans women are women”. Over and over, like a catechism. So I have thought hard what this means and to what extent I believe it. Because this question, no pun intended, is the modern version of transubstantiation. ...
"Catechism" indeed - lysenkoism writ large.

Mr. X, Indeed
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14075

Post by Mr. X, Indeed »

HelpingHand wrote: The story of the road raging man who assaulted two lesbian women in central Oregon got a fair amount of press coverage. Broke the arm of one and knocked the other unconscious. Not to my surprise, there was a call for pitchforks and torches for this prime example of toxic masculinity. To my surprise, the later oh-maybe-that-narrative-was-not-correct has actually been getting some press.

http://katu.com/news/local/deschutes-co ... -rage-case
Followed them for over a mile and smashed their back window because he got cut off? Her response to that was to break her own arm on his truck? All of these people were out of their fucking minds.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14076

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote: See if you can make an argument that doesn’t include the SS and mass murder.
Since we were talking about Dugin, a guy who admires the SS, I didn't think that the comparison was inappropriate.
In Russia, an argument could be made that your liberal democracy would put a stake through the heart of the collective and result in net negative happiness. They may well benefit from having clicked the dial with more gusto.


What's a few dead journalist, militarism, rampant corruption, the rule of organized crime and people going to jail for criticizing the government when you have the Precious Sacred Collective Traditions?

Also the "happiness" part is questionable.
The simple fact is the jury remains out on modern day liberal democracy (ie post WWI), especially in Europe. The post Cold War expression of this system may well accomplish what two conflagrations failed to achieve. [Insert the requisite Churchill quote here]
Yes, immigration is just as dire as the aftermath of two world wars, maybe even worse. :bjarte:

Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14077

Post by Shatterface »

Kirbmarc wrote: What's a few dead journalist, militarism, rampant corruption, the rule of organized crime and people going to jail for criticizing the government when you have the Precious Sacred Collective Traditions?
I think we are seeing exactly the same attitude towards Russia from the Right that we had from the Left when the Soviets were in charge.

Never mind the corruption - look at the ideals! Murders? What murders? We need strong leadership! So what if free speech and individual rights are restricted? Think of the collective!

Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14078

Post by Shatterface »

Also, let's put the fucking Wall back up. We all know it was there to prevent immigrants entering the Motherland.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14079

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Shatterface wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: What's a few dead journalist, militarism, rampant corruption, the rule of organized crime and people going to jail for criticizing the government when you have the Precious Sacred Collective Traditions?
I think we are seeing exactly the same attitude towards Russia from the Right that we had from the Left when the Soviets were in charge.

Never mind the corruption - look at the ideals! Murders? What murders? We need strong leadership! So what if free speech and individual rights are restricted? Think of the collective!
It would also probably bother the fans of Russia's autocracy that it isn't saving them from the Muslim invasion. They have already a 6-10% muslim population and an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants from mostly muslim ex-Soviet republics. There is a concern in Russia that the Central Asian stans could go through an Arab spring type of political collapse and the flood of refugees ramping up to a much larger scale.
Add to that the muslim population in Russia also has a higher fertility rate than the "real" Russians, and it appears that having a right wing authoritarian kleptocracy hasn't saved them from the looming white genocide.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14080

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

DrokkIt wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm
If we are to make any traction on this issue, us sane folks need to stick to 'sex' and not conflate it with 'gender.'
This is it, in a nutshell. I'm unconvinced there is such a thing as 'gender', and nothing I've read on the subject seems very compelling- it's a spook.
'gender' is a neologism of dubious utility, coined by John Money, the Josef Mengele of sexology, to describe a putative function of the human -- and only human -- mind for which there is no concrete evidence and which, were it to exist, in 99.7% of humans and 100% of animals would be entirely superfluous, providing zero fitness value.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14081

Post by Brive1987 »

Shatterface wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:05 pm
Kirbmarc wrote: What's a few dead journalist, militarism, rampant corruption, the rule of organized crime and people going to jail for criticizing the government when you have the Precious Sacred Collective Traditions?
I think we are seeing exactly the same attitude towards Russia from the Right that we had from the Left when the Soviets were in charge.

Never mind the corruption - look at the ideals! Murders? What murders? We need strong leadership! So what if free speech and individual rights are restricted? Think of the collective!
Which was a more functional society pre and post dictator - Libya, Iraqi, Syria ....
And these were bastards that imposed more than the traditional measures of euro-autocratic rule.

Nice polite Westminster democracy driving nice neat first world solutions in clever, astute and maturely aligned societies aren’t always a thing.

You think Russia is yearning for and well placed for Afghan level democracy? That would be a great outcome? You think that’s aligned to its Tsarist, Communistic, hard-man consciousness?

CommanderTuvok
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14082

Post by CommanderTuvok »

St. Paul? How far is that from PZ's neck of the woods?

I reckon this raccoon caught the scent of PZ, and "zoomed" 23 floors up this skyscrape. Don't blame it! :)

CommanderTuvok
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14083

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Oh, and I want to see Eric Clanton behind bars. For a long time. Sobbing.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14084

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:05 pm
Kirbmarc wrote: What's a few dead journalist, militarism, rampant corruption, the rule of organized crime and people going to jail for criticizing the government when you have the Precious Sacred Collective Traditions?
I think we are seeing exactly the same attitude towards Russia from the Right that we had from the Left when the Soviets were in charge.

Never mind the corruption - look at the ideals! Murders? What murders? We need strong leadership! So what if free speech and individual rights are restricted? Think of the collective!
Which was a more functional society pre and post dictator - Libya, Iraqi, Syria ....
And these were bastards that imposed more than the traditional measures of euro-autocratic rule.

Nice polite Westminster democracy driving nice neat first world solutions in clever, astute and maturely aligned societies aren’t always a thing.

You think Russia is yearning for and well placed for Afghan level democracy? That would be a great outcome? You think that’s aligned to its Tsarist, Communistic, hard-man consciousness?
Do you think that there is a functional democracy in Afganistan? Or in Libya, Iraq or Syria? Do you want to know why? (Hint: it has something to do with "traditional religious values" of a specific religion which hasn't undergone a process of secularization).

Also do you really yearn to turn Australia into an "euro-autocracy", just to keep the Indians and the Chinese out of the country?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14085

Post by Kirbmarc »

It's insane to me how certain people rightly oppose islamic theocracy but then pine for the Good Old Days of Traditional Christianity. This idea is just as dumb as the Regressive Leftists who whine about how Christianity is bigoted but islam is Feminist and Intersectional.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14086

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

HelpingHand wrote: The story of the road raging man who assaulted two lesbian women in central Oregon got a fair amount of press coverage. Broke the arm of one and knocked the other unconscious. Not to my surprise, there was a call for pitchforks and torches for this prime example of toxic masculinity. To my surprise, the later oh-maybe-that-narrative-was-not-correct has actually been getting some press.

http://katu.com/news/local/deschutes-co ... -rage-case
I think it's sweet how the lesbian couple took turns pretending to be run over.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14087

Post by Brive1987 »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Do you think that there is a functional democracy in Afganistan? Or in Libya, Iraq or Syria? Do you want to know why? (Hint: it has something to do with "traditional religious values" of a specific religion which hasn't undergone a process of secularization).

Also do you really yearn to turn Australia into an "euro-autocracy", just to keep the Indians and the Chinese out of the country?
Failure demonstrates the need to evolve a fit for purpose compact. Similar issues in Africa I guess, and pretty anywhere you drop a new system into a diverse and differently aligned culture. You didn’t address whether western lib democracy would be a panacea in Russia.

Nice try with the euro-autocracy. I was referencing the current Russian model. Our culturally aligned constitutional monarchy is getting along quite nicely. If only the Liberals would be more trad conservative than neo-lib.

I don’t know why you lack the imagination to conceive of a new political balance; one drawing on traditional values but without necessarily replacing all the Mazdas with FJ Holdens. Maybe it’s a Swiss thing.

screwtape
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14088

Post by screwtape »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:31 am
Ape+lust wrote: So, I guess the plan is to feed him until he explodes?

https://imgur.com/fqc7Zne.jpg

4 months ago...

https://imgur.com/1qzCK5v.jpg
I think psychiatric meds can cause bloating like this, though screwtape or similar would be a more reliable source of info.
Some SSRIs, especially paroxetine/Paxil, cause weight gain, and mirtazepine/Remeron can increase appetite to the point where one eats until in pain, but the hunger remains. Major tranqillisers - phenothiazines (eg chlorpromazine), butyrophenones (eg haloperidol) and especially the atypicals (risperidone, quetiapine and olanzepine) also cause weight gain through increased appetite and lethargy, to the point where they cause type 2 diabetes, hyperlipidemia, hypertension and stroke and certainly shorten life expectancy. Evil drugs, and only to be used where clearly necessary. Sadly, we seem to be using vast amounts of them on naughty children, demented seniors and as a 'liquid cosh' in the prison system. The guy above is probably on both an SSRI and an atypical given his circumstances.

screwtape
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14089

Post by screwtape »

Lindsay Shepherd sues WLU.

She has realised they have made her unemployable. I hope she wins.

fuzzy
Pit Art Master
Pit Art Master
Posts: 2215
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14090

Post by fuzzy »

screwtape wrote: Lindsay Shepherd sues WLU.

She has realised they have made her unemployable. I hope she wins.
I didn't want to deal with nationalpost's adblock policy, so found this on Toronto Sun: http://torontosun.com/news/national/lau ... ech-abuses

I rfemember Peterson saw this coming way back in the first few days when the two talked, and he pretty much offered to take her into his university program for further academic pursuits if/when such blackballing were to happen ... ...

Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14091

Post by Shatterface »

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Do you think that there is a functional democracy in Afganistan? Or in Libya, Iraq or Syria? Do you want to know why? (Hint: it has something to do with "traditional religious values" of a specific religion which hasn't undergone a process of secularization).

Also do you really yearn to turn Australia into an "euro-autocracy", just to keep the Indians and the Chinese out of the country?
Failure demonstrates the need to evolve a fit for purpose compact. Similar issues in Africa I guess, and pretty anywhere you drop a new system into a diverse and differently aligned culture. You didn’t address whether western lib democracy would be a panacea in Russia.

Nice try with the euro-autocracy. I was referencing the current Russian model. Our culturally aligned constitutional monarchy is getting along quite nicely. If only the Liberals would be more trad conservative than neo-lib.

I don’t know why you lack the imagination to conceive of a new political balance; one drawing on traditional values but without necessarily replacing all the Mazdas with FJ Holdens. Maybe it’s a Swiss thing.
Russia had a strong, authoritarian collective society for most of the last century. It failed.

It had one under the Tzars which failed before that. I wouldn't bet on the current gangsterocracy outlasting the decadent individualist democratic pansy West either.

The West has been falling since the Roman Empire collapsed. We're still here.

Keating
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14092

Post by Keating »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:49 pm
It's insane to me how certain people rightly oppose islamic theocracy but then pine for the Good Old Days of Traditional Christianity. This idea is just as dumb as the Regressive Leftists who whine about how Christianity is bigoted but islam is Feminist and Intersectional.
I think Jordan Peterson has a really valid point here, that is really hard to understand and get across.

It is undeniable that the West is founded on many Ancient Greek and Christian ideas. Many of the ways we in the West understand the mind and body, for example, are based on the discussions the ancient Greeks had about it over 2000 years ago. (This is on my mind because it came up in an acting class I’m taking).

We’ve been doing a number of social experiments in the West, largely driven by technology that are undermining these foundations. Immigration and the birth control pill are just two examples.

There’s clearly problems arising out of these experiments. The best analogy I can think of is the automobile. That solved a real problem with horse shit and brought numerous other improvements. However, how long did it take us to notice the problem of billions of internal combustion engines pumping out carbon dioxide? Have we even managed to address that problem in any coherent way? All these experiments we’re running could be social disasters equal to or worse than climate change is to the environment.

The (original) progressive position, fundamentally, is that technology will always be able to solve our problems. I’m not sure that’s true. It is certainly possibly that we, as humans, just aren’t capable of living with certain technologies. A.I. may be one of those, that Sam Harris worries about a lot.

Another solution may be something equivalent to the way the Amish approach technology. It isn’t that they completely shun things like the telephone, but that they choose not to have them in their houses. They’ll have a communal one, because the telephone is useful, but they believe it takes something away from family life.

As the Greek and Christian ideas are our foundation, reinforcing them may be another solution to the instability caused by our social experiments. Unmooring ourselves completely from our foundations seems like a recipe for disaster. What the regressive left types are doing is even worse; they are unmooring society deliberately with the explicit goal of destroying it, largely because they are completely unaware of historical attempts to do so that have ended in bloodshed.

I’m not even sure I’ve articulated this idea properly. This idea is right at the limits of my grasp, which is a fairly novel experience for me.

MarcusAu
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14093

Post by MarcusAu »

It's quite possible that Peterson will end up being more of a divider than a uniter.

SM1957
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14094

Post by SM1957 »

MarcusAu wrote: It's quite possible that Peterson will end up being more of a divider than a uniter.
I think a lot of people are listening to him because they think that what he says is more grounded in reality than the crazy fantasies peddled by others of 'white privilege', '57 genders' , 'patriarchy', 'intersectionalism' etc People do want to understand the world they live in and they think Peterson does


It is a strange world where somebody who talks about Jungian archetypes is considered more reality-based than many articles we read in the New York Times or Washington Post.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14095

Post by Brive1987 »

Shatterface wrote:
The West has been falling since the Roman Empire collapsed. We're still here.
It won’t fall.

Take the Western version of the UK. One day you will look for it and, I’ll be buggered, it just won’t be there anymore.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... IdxoiO85lA

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14096

Post by Brive1987 »

I know.

I too hate people that play games with the Y axis.

SM1957
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14097

Post by SM1957 »

free thoughtpolice wrote: It would also probably bother the fans of Russia's autocracy that it isn't saving them from the Muslim invasion. They have already a 6-10% muslim population and an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants from mostly muslim ex-Soviet republics. There is a concern in Russia that the Central Asian stans could go through an Arab spring type of political collapse and the flood of refugees ramping up to a much larger scale.
Add to that the muslim population in Russia also has a higher fertility rate than the "real" Russians, and it appears that having a right wing authoritarian kleptocracy hasn't saved them from the looming white genocide.
Is it really true that there are a lot of Muslims in Russia?

Checks news reports.....

Yes, it is true!

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/04/euro ... index.html

Bhurzum
Brassy, uncouth, henpecked meathead
Posts: 5059
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14098

Post by Bhurzum »

Something tells me there'll be a few less "moderate" enemies muslims following this event:
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - The Freedom Party of Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders will hold a competition of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad, it said on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-neth ... SKBN1J81ZN

Bullets tend to cause apostasy... :lol:

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14099

Post by Brive1987 »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
It would also probably bother the fans of Russia's autocracy that it isn't saving them from the Muslim invasion. They have already a 6-10% muslim population and an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants from mostly muslim ex-Soviet republics. There is a concern in Russia that the Central Asian stans could go through an Arab spring type of political collapse and the flood of refugees ramping up to a much larger scale.

Add to that the muslim population in Russia also has a higher fertility rate than the "real" Russians, and it appears that having a right wing authoritarian kleptocracy hasn't saved them from the looming white genocide.
At least their trains run on time.


Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#14100

Post by Brive1987 »

Umm


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