There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

[Billie from Ockham]

There are things for which a continuous or multivariate measure of gender is a better predictor than dichotomous sex, even after you correct for the higher number of predictor degrees of freedom.

Such as?

(I'm guessing this will be pointless "gender studies" nonsense, IE: useless faff)

So, from a strictly mathematical point-of-view, you are incorrect.

Strictly pointless.

Note, also, that the above makes the point that, while they are highly correlated, gender and sex are distinct attributes of a person, although it takes a really huge sample size for the distinction to be significant.

In exactly the same way that "favourite colour" is an attribute of a person? It's entirely subjective, utterly pointless and of zero consequence. Unless of course you're an LGBTQ(Batman symbol)9+3/4 fuckwit who wields his/her/its "gender identity" like a fucking club and rams the fact into every conversation they have.

:popcorn:

Do you enjoy and agree with the arguments of Jordan Peterson?

Yes?

Including his arguments that are based on the Big 5 model of personality, such as the idea that "women" make different choices than "men" and that this is why there are different outcomes for these two group (that have nothing to do with "systematic sexism")?

Still yes?

Well, scores on the Big 5 are better predicted by gender than sex.

So, if you enjoy and agree with the central argument used by Jordan Peterson to "debunk" things like the "wage gap," then the stuff you just called "pointless" would seem to have a point, after all.

[John D]

30708446_924207867742084_7343877413489798243_n.jpg

(47.58 KiB) Downloaded 149 times

[Ape+lust]

Greta and Heina both posted write ups after the Memphis 2015 convention. Greta's is a litany of petty incidents she blows up into major offenses, but none involve sex. Heina's is something about women being robbed of confidence. Again, nothing about sex.

Both of them have long complained about rapes and assault occurring at atheist events. But neither thought to at least write a "blind item" to bolster their claims and serve notice to Silverman they knew what he did.

They are a really strange and useless pair.

Greta:
https://archive.li/CJNlU

Heina:
http://archive.is/5MdSt

[shoutinghorse]

US UK and France begin air strikes on Syria.. ... Sky news. :pray:

[Billie from Ockham]

Isn't one of the old FTB crowd into BDSM? I have (nightmarish) memories of one of them in some kind of dominatrix outfit.

[Lsuoma]

US UK and France begin air strikes on Syria.. ... Sky news. :pray:

I'm niggered again. I posted on the Trump thread, but let's keep it here.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Isn't one of the old FTB crowd into BDSM? I have (nightmarish) memories of one of them in some kind of dominatrix outfit.

Greta Christina, recent photo here:
http://i.imgur.com/15VGZl6.jpg

[John D]

Wow. Pat Condell.... I have not been watching him lately... but he crushes this one.

[Ape+lust]

Isn't one of the old FTB crowd into BDSM? I have (nightmarish) memories of one of them in some kind of dominatrix outfit.

Greta Christina, recent photo here:
http://i.imgur.com/15VGZl6.jpg

:lol:

What isn't she into? She's got an article out there somewhere about how much she adores anal :twatson:

[John D]

US UK and France begin air strikes on Syria.. ... Sky news. :pray:

I'm niggered again. I posted on the Trump thread, but let's keep it here.

Fuck... this is not good. If we blow up all the bad guys and leave all the good guys there will be no one left........

[shoutinghorse]

80% of Brits don't want us to bomb Syria .. Get ready for Prime Minister Corbyn 2022 :doh:

[d4m10n]

So...are there any atheist/skeptic entities that aren't staffed at the top some sort of sexual clique?

AHA, but they are all over 50.

[Bhurzum]

Do you enjoy and agree with the arguments of Jordan Peterson?

Yes?

I'm unfamiliar with his views/opinions on "gender identity" and as such, I cannot say.

Including his arguments that are based on the Big 5 model of personality, such as the idea that "women" make different choices than "men" and that this is why there are different outcomes for these two group (that have nothing to do with "systematic sexism")?

Still yes?

See above.

So, if you enjoy and agree with the central argument used by Jordan Peterson to "debunk" things like the "wage gap," then the stuff you just called "pointless" would seem to have a point, after all.

Cheers for that. I'll file it under "Vitally Important Busy Work" but promise to read up on it as soon as I've data-mined how many sugars Trump takes in his coffee, what shoe size Joe Rogan wears and whether or not Steerso has an HD display.

:bjarte:

[Dan]

Roasting David Sliverman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxVxMapeOhM

[John D]

[John D]

:nin:

[Bhurzum]

[Keating]

Where’s Vacula? He must denounce Silverman.

[pro-boxing-fan]

Where’s Vacula? He must denounce Silverman.

He's probably just too stoic right now.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Hey, Justin. Nice turn of events, No?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

There are things for which a continuous or multivariate measure of gender is a better predictor than dichotomous sex, even after you correct for the higher number of predictor degrees of freedom. So, from a strictly mathematical point-of-view, you are incorrect.

No.

Note, also, that the above makes the point that, while they are highly correlated, gender and sex are distinct attributes of a person, although it takes a really huge sample size for the distinction to be significant.

Gender doesn't exist. There is sex. An infinitesimally small number of humans suffer from a sex-related dysphoria.

There's also Body Integrity Identity Disorder, where the sufferer believes one or more of their limbs are not theirs and should be amputated. That doesn't necessitate the existence of a cis-Limbness in everybody else.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

There are things for which a continuous or multivariate measure of gender is a better predictor than dichotomous sex, even after you correct for the higher number of predictor degrees of freedom. So, from a strictly mathematical point-of-view, you are incorrect.

No.

Note, also, that the above makes the point that, while they are highly correlated, gender and sex are distinct attributes of a person, although it takes a really huge sample size for the distinction to be significant.

Gender doesn't exist. There is sex. An infinitesimally small number of humans suffer from a sex-related dysphoria.

There's also Body Integrity Identity Disorder, where the sufferer believes one or more of their limbs are not theirs and should be amputated. That doesn't necessitate the existence of a cis-Limbness in everybody else.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

My GF asked me to get her a T-shirt that said, "My safe word is 'harder!'"

[Shatterface]

Do you enjoy and agree with the arguments of Jordan Peterson?

Yes?

Including his arguments that are based on the Big 5 model of personality, such as the idea that "women" make different choices than "men" and that this is why there are different outcomes for these two group (that have nothing to do with "systematic sexism")?

Still yes?

Well, scores on the Big 5 are better predicted by gender than sex.

You have got that backwards.

'Gender' is better predicted by the Big 5 than sex because 'gender' is now being defined in terms of personality - the traits the Big 5 measures - instead of biology.

You have already defined 'gender' as this:

* 'Gender' is defined as “[a]ttitudes, feelings, characteristics, and behaviors that a given culture associates with being male or female and that are often labeled as ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’”;

Kids have been taught that gender is separate from biological sex.

If their Big 5 profile doesn't fit the stereotype for their sex they are told that they therefore have a different gender - instead of simply being a boy or girl who's openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism is atypical of their sex.

[Shatterface]

Tldr; if you define gender in terms of personality traits instead of sex, saying the Big 5 is predicted by your gender is a tautology.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Well, scores on the Big 5 are better predicted by gender than sex.

What are the Big 5 scores for a Demi-vir? A Ludogender? Would a genderfluid's scores vary from day to day?

If a gender is defined by its Big 5 scores, then it's tautological that Big 5 scores are predicted by gender.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

You fucking ninja'd me by seconds.

[MarcusAu]

My safe words are not really all that safe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upn8oUy5xPk

[MarcusAu]

It seems like it's only the Satanists that are effectively standing up for religious freedom and secular values in America these days.

I sure hope nothing controversial comes out about any of their members.

[Ape+lust]

[Brive1987]

[Brive1987]

As Matt said it does not look good for either of them.

She doesn’t rebuff his hand on leg, she agrees to go to his hotel room. She has consensual sex. And her major issue is that the sex wasn’t fungible into an internship. That in fact it ruled out a career opportunity. More quid than pro.

If he had immorally given her the opportunity she sought would we be hearing about this today?

[Kirbmarc]

The moral of the story is: keep your professional and your personal life separated and never offer or ask for sex in exchange for professional help or recommendations.

[Brive1987]

Between the mixed comms leading to the shades of grey cos play (immediately shut down via safe word), and the consensual sex. I’m not seeing the crime here.

Dirty birdy yes. But no rapist.

Bet PZ is worrying about the ‘honey chicken” he and Dave consumed in China.

[Brive1987]

The moral of the story is: keep your professional and your personal life separated and never offer or ask for sex in exchange for professional help or recommendations.

She should have pursued the trad-life.

[Kirbmarc]

The moral of the story is: keep your professional and your personal life separated and never offer or ask for sex in exchange for professional help or recommendations.

She should have pursued the trad-life.

Trading sex in exchange for favors is the oldest, most traditional profession. :bjarte:

[Hunt]

Seems like a weird replay of the Shermer affair. Drinking, "rape" by odd mesmerism; the young woman seems drawn to his hotel room. Sex, regret, wait, report years later. Stir, repeat. I'd just like to know what strange magnetism these guys use to turn women into sexually pliable zombies. Alcohol never worked that way for me.

By no means am I saying Silverman is innocent. Simply by noting that he pressured her into silence (if true) and threatened to ruin her career, he's a douche by any measure.

[Brive1987]

Its the oldest profession. It becomes traditional when it’s called marriage.

[Kirbmarc]

Between the mixed comms leading to the shades of grey cos play (immediately shut down via safe word), and the consensual sex. I’m not seeing the crime here.

Dirty birdy yes. But no rapist.

Bet PZ is worrying about the ‘honey chicken” he and Dave consumed in China.

Silverman is a moronic horndog, but yeah, things look murky, more like miscommunication, lack of clear standards, and mixed signals than a Weinstein or a Cosby case. Of course there could be more to this but this is beginning to look like Shermer 2.0.

Still between Shermer, Silverman and Dickie Carrier, it's a bit surprising to me to see how much kinky sex, cheating and poly-fucks went on at Atheist conferences, as if they were drunken college parties. I can understand why PZ, who's unlikely to have gotten any, is so bitter.

[Hunt]

The moral of the story is: keep your professional and your personal life separated and never offer or ask for sex in exchange for professional help or recommendations.

I agree, of course, but it's probably here that the age discrepancy is most salient. A girl right out of college might think "I'm in the big world now, and this is how adult world works". Along comes Silverman, never intending to reciprocate, but willing to take advantage of the girl's naivete.

It may not be rape, but it is world class douchebaggery. Silverman deserves all the shit he gets.

[Kirbmarc]

Seems like a weird replay of the Shermer affair. Drinking, "rape" by odd mesmerism; the young woman seems drawn to his hotel room. Sex, regret, wait, report years later. Stir, repeat. I'd just like to know what strange magnetism these guys use to turn women into sexually pliable zombies. Alcohol never worked that way for me.

By no means am I saying Silverman is innocent. Simply by noting that he pressured her into silence (if true) and threatened to ruin her career, he's a douche by any measure.

I had missed that part. Yes, if it's true that Silverman threatened the accuser to make her shut up then he's abused of his position to coerce someone he slept with to keep quiet, and firing him is more than justified.

[Brive1987]

Between the mixed comms leading to the shades of grey cos play (immediately shut down via safe word), and the consensual sex. I’m not seeing the crime here.

Dirty birdy yes. But no rapist.

Bet PZ is worrying about the ‘honey chicken” he and Dave consumed in China.

Silverman is a moronic horndog, but yeah, things look murky, more like miscommunication, lack of clear standards, and mixed signals than a Weinstein or a Cosby case. Of course there could be more to this but this is beginning to look like Shermer 2.0.

Still between Shermer, Silverman and Dickie Carrier, it's a bit surprising to me to see how much kinky sex, cheating and poly-fucks went on at Atheist conferences, as if they were drunken college parties. I can understand why PZ, who's unlikely to have gotten any, is so bitter.

It certainly plays into the cliche that an objective moral code is desirable against which to benchmark behaviour. It’s telling that the poly marriage oxymoron got trotted out.

[Kirbmarc]

The moral of the story is: keep your professional and your personal life separated and never offer or ask for sex in exchange for professional help or recommendations.

I agree, of course, but it's probably here that the age discrepancy is most salient. A girl right out of college might think "I'm in the big world now, and this is how adult world works". Along comes Silverman, never intending to reciprocate, but willing to take advantage of the girl's naivete.

It may not be rape, but it is world class douchebaggery. Silverman deserves all the shit he gets.

The worst part is that he threatened to ruin her career if word of their sexual encounter got out. I'm not a legal expert, but now that I think about it this might actually be actionable under workplace harassment laws, even in Patriarchy Country Switzerland. Of course that's going to be hard to prove.

[Brive1987]

Seems like a weird replay of the Shermer affair. Drinking, "rape" by odd mesmerism; the young woman seems drawn to his hotel room. Sex, regret, wait, report years later. Stir, repeat. I'd just like to know what strange magnetism these guys use to turn women into sexually pliable zombies. Alcohol never worked that way for me.

By no means am I saying Silverman is innocent. Simply by noting that he pressured her into silence (if true) and threatened to ruin her career, he's a douche by any measure.

I had missed that part. Yes, if it's true that Silverman threatened the accuser to make her shut up then he's abused of his position to coerce someone he slept with to keep quiet, and firing him is more than justified.

An alternative interpretation is that he spotted her as an unscrupulous gold digger and was taking responsible precautions. Probably took a course of penicillin for the same reason.

Like I said. An alternative interpretation.

[Kirbmarc]

An alternative interpretation is that he spotted her as an unscrupulous gold digger and was taking responsible precautions. Probably took a course of penicillin for the same reason.

Like I said. An alternative interpretation.

If that's true then Silverman is an idiot for not having made it more clear than their relationship wasn't about a quid pro quo.

He's also a moron for cheating at a conference where he was one of the main stars, and of course an asshole for cheating in the first place.

[Brive1987]

They were both playing power poker (hee hee), he had the jobs and she could give him what he wanted. Dangerous game that usually ends in tears. In this case hers. And, as he feared, ultimately his.

I am reassured by your traditional values re marriage and assume it’s on this moral front you ascribe the greater blame to Dave?

[Kirbmarc]

They were both playing power poker (hee hee), he had the jobs and she could give him what he wanted. Dangerous game that usually ends in tears. In this case hers. And, as he feared, ultimately his.

I am reassured by your traditional values re marriage and assume it’s on this moral front you ascribe the greater blame to Dave?

It's not a matter of traditional values as much as it is a matter of not lying to the person you're having a serious relationship with. I'm fine with people deciding to have an open couple, or swinging, or not to be in a serious relationship, if they're all in the clear and agree to that. I don't see myself as being able to do that, but more power to them if they can. Doing things behind your partner's back is definitely a dirty move, even though it's not a crime.

As for the greater blame, well, if we take the accuser at face value Silverman is definitely more in the wrong (although she comes off as someone who's completely spineless). There might be more to this, and she might actually be more upset with not having gotten what she wanted than with having been threatened, but until we know more it's hard to tell. And we might never know more.

[Ape+lust]

Jobless at 51 because he couldn't resist porking a girl who was too young for him anyway.

AA should call their next event the Impulse Rally. None of those halfwits seem to have any familiarity with reason.

[Shatterface]

They were both playing power poker (hee hee), he had the jobs and she could give him what he wanted. Dangerous game that usually ends in tears. In this case hers. And, as he feared, ultimately his.

I am reassured by your traditional values re marriage and assume it’s on this moral front you ascribe the greater blame to Dave?

Can I ask how traditional are your values?

Are you married and did you both hold out for sex until you'd put a ring on it?

Were you both pure as Peezus?

[Bhurzum]

[Hunt]

Of course, barring the possibility there's much much more to it than meets the eye, Ashley Miller preemptively calling it rape is as much a dick move as anything Silverman did. Why do people have to make things so complicated? On the surface it's all very simple: naive girl gets fucked over (literally) by unprofessional dick, who gets fired. End of story.

[franc]

Taylor Swift offered to give me a foaming hand shandy in the toilet. But I was too much of a gentleman to accept. I am what is missing from #WesternCivilization

[Kirbmarc]

Of course, barring the possibility there's much much more to it than meets the eye, Ashley Miller preemptively calling it rape is as much a dick move as anything Silverman did. Why do people have to make things so complicated? On the surface it's all very simple: naive girl gets fucked over (literally) by unprofessional dick, who gets fired. End of story.

It's part of the "rape culture" mindset. All bad things that related to sex are rape.

[MarcusAu]

They were both playing power poker (hee hee), he had the jobs and she could give him what he wanted. Dangerous game that usually ends in tears. In this case hers. And, as he feared, ultimately his.

I am reassured by your traditional values re marriage and assume it’s on this moral front you ascribe the greater blame to Dave?

Can I ask how traditional are your values?

Are you married and did you both hold out for sex until you'd put a ring on it?

Were you both pure as Peezus?

It all works out if you think of hypocrisy as a traditional value.

I manage to avoid the issue by having no standards whatsoever. (What can I say - I was raised catholic).

[Ape+lust]

Stay to the end to see Zvan talk about feeling a great weight lifted off her shoulders, because the years of effort by her and the baboons have enabled Rose St Clair speak out safely. Of course, anyone who bothers to look at what happened to St Clair 6 years ago will find the shit flung at her came almost entirely from the Skepchick/FtB crew.

She also mentions "that Tumblr post in 2012," meaning the More Will Be Named webpage. She says she's been carrying it around with her since then. The deluded psycho actually thinks the Silverman entry is probably true. And why not? There's a good chance she wrote it.

Crediting herself for Silverman's dismissal might even be stupider than her claim to be a woman programming pioneer (She once wrote Excel macros).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIITa7adgKA#t=2270

[Ape+lust]

The Silverman story from More Will Be Named:

https://imgur.com/KAgAzM8.png

[Bhurzum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIITa7adgKA#t=2270

I tried to resist dumping some low-key trolling in the comments.

I failed.

:(

[Bhurzum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIITa7adgKA#t=2270

I tried to resist dumping some low-key trolling in the comments.

I failed.

:(

Addendum: She really does have a face like a smacked arse. She gives me the creeps!

[Billie from Ockham]

Gender doesn't exist. There is sex. An infinitesimally small number of humans suffer from a sex-related dysphoria.

Skinner would be proud.

May I infer that you also believe that depression, anxiety, extroversion, etc, all don't exist, either?

[Billie from Ockham]

Do you enjoy and agree with the arguments of Jordan Peterson?

Yes?

Including his arguments that are based on the Big 5 model of personality, such as the idea that "women" make different choices than "men" and that this is why there are different outcomes for these two group (that have nothing to do with "systematic sexism")?

Still yes?

Well, scores on the Big 5 are better predicted by gender than sex.

You have got that backwards.

'Gender' is better predicted by the Big 5 than sex because 'gender' is now being defined in terms of personality - the traits the Big 5 measures - instead of biology.

You have already defined 'gender' as this:

* 'Gender' is defined as “[a]ttitudes, feelings, characteristics, and behaviors that a given culture associates with being male or female and that are often labeled as ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’”;

Kids have been taught that gender is separate from biological sex.

If their Big 5 profile doesn't fit the stereotype for their sex they are told that they therefore have a different gender - instead of simply being a boy or girl who's openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism is atypical of their sex.

Two issues in the above.

First, please note that I said "predicted by" and not "comprised of" nor "caused by"; this was to evade the question of directionality. There is no good work on this question. The little that we do know suggests that gender and personality are about equally stable.

Second, if Matt had quoted a policy that said that kids must be taught that gender is separate from biological sex (which most teachers and kids would read as "independent of"), then I would have thrown a fit, too. But even if you believe that gender is an expression of sex, or that gender comes from the interaction between personality and sex, it is separate in the sense that it isn't the same thing. The evidence of this is that there aren't equally good at prediction some things, such as non-clinical levels of depression and anxiety.