There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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Hunt
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3841

Post by Hunt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:53 am

Kirbmarc wrote: I'm not saying that "identity" and "meaning" are pointless or unimportant, but they're not the end of everything, and they shouldn't be the only thing we talk about. Also "identity" and "meaning" have a high degree of subjectivity. I find no "identity" or "meaning" in gardening or knitting, but if someone does find those things in those activities, cool, more power to them, carry on gardening or knitting if that's what makes you happy and makes you feel useful, you don't need my activism to carry on doing what you do. Similarly if you find "meaning" meditating, or saying prayers, or reading holy books, fine, your life your choice, have fun and be happy.
Identity as a tool of division is a bad thing, which is why the great leaders, the MLKs, never used it as an instrument of exclusion. If you were white/Jewish, etc. and willing to fight for African American liberation, you were part of the club.

SJWs use identity to divide; they're dividers, not uniters. E.g. if you're white, or male, you're out of certain clubs, irrevocably, based on identity.

Identity is a tricky thing: it's the doorway to diversity, in a good way; but it's also basis for all of humanities faults and foibles.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3842

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:59 am

Hunt wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: I'm not saying that "identity" and "meaning" are pointless or unimportant, but they're not the end of everything, and they shouldn't be the only thing we talk about. Also "identity" and "meaning" have a high degree of subjectivity. I find no "identity" or "meaning" in gardening or knitting, but if someone does find those things in those activities, cool, more power to them, carry on gardening or knitting if that's what makes you happy and makes you feel useful, you don't need my activism to carry on doing what you do. Similarly if you find "meaning" meditating, or saying prayers, or reading holy books, fine, your life your choice, have fun and be happy.
Identity as a tool of division is a bad thing, which is why the great leaders, the MLKs, never used it as an instrument of exclusion. If you were white/Jewish, etc. and willing to fight for African American liberation, you were part of the club.

SJWs use identity to divide; they're dividers, not uniters. E.g. if you're white, or male, you're out of certain clubs, irrevocably, based on identity.

Identity is a tricky thing: it's the doorway to diversity, in a good way; but it's also basis for all of humanities faults and foibles.
More importantly (IMHO) the fight was on actual legal and social issues, not on identity in and for itself. The idea was "we want equal voting rights" or "we want the end of segregation" rather than "check your white privilege". Even today the real issues (like police brutality/impunity/law enforcement overreach in general) COULD be faced in a way that centers civil rights and discusses the role of the police as service for the citizens, not as the imposition of authority.

Instead we get stupid, counterproductive ideas on how EVERYTHING is about ethnicity, and how we need to police THOUGHTS and PREFERENCES rather than behavior. That's the worst part of identitarianism.

For example a coherent black rights activist would celebrate decriminalization of marijuana, since it leads to less arrests for what is basically a victimless crime, and less aggressive enforcement which creates the various troubles for communities of color. The message should be "this is a step in the good direction, more needs to be done". Instead Shaun "Talcum X" King whined that decriminalization of marijuana was a distraction from the "real issues", because it wasn't SPECIFICALLY aimed at improving policing of communities of color. The focus is on the identity rather than the politics.

I'm pretty sure that if there was a race neutral law that improved law enforcement issues, like (for example) more accountability for police officers involved in shootings that end up in deaths, many in the BLM groups wouldn't celebrate it as a good thing, but instead whine that it was race-neutral instead of "specifically fighting institutional racism". The focus doesn't seem to be on having less people shot by the police, but only to have less black people shot by the police.

I remember a very stupid comment on Pharyngula where, after someone had pointed out how not just leftists, but even libertarians like Radley Balko were also reporting on how the excessive militarization of the police caused problems, a black identitarian dumbass wrote that he didn't really care if the police was trained like military "as long as they stop killing black people".

This is, from a "social justice" perspective, is asinine and idiotic. It's like saying that you don't care if AIDS is cured, as long as you and your friends don't get AIDS, and then calling yourself an "activist".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3843

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:08 am

Coherent "social justice" would be about gathering data about a problem, trying to identify the causes of the problem, and THEN try to discuss and propose possible solutions, along with activism to make the issue more known to the public. This is how we got gay marriage after all.

Instead the SocJus is about: a) there's something we think is a problem because it makes us feel sad or upset, it might everything from police shootings to video games with women with big tits to a comment which is framed in a way we don't like b) it's caused by bigots for sure c) let's get to twitter or organize a march and expose and shame the bigots d) "check your privilege you fragile whites" "you're all white supremacist Nazis" e) we whine and whine and whine....

There's no discussion of the problem and no path towards a solution, just shouting "this is problematic! this is problematic! Do something!" and trying to shut down all critics as bigots.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3844

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:40 am

Kirb you keeping saying "ethnostate" like there's a single shit-flavoured choice available. Have you analysed this need to simplify?

Here is a happy video of a nasty ethnotown, made for the finals of the European culture competition.
With only seven semi-finalists left, the Hungarian town of Székesfehérvár made a promotional film for the jury. The film shows the town’s most beautiful places, a happy couple and some kids playing.


Alas.
But the EU’s jury rejected the submission of Székesfehérvár’s debut film: “There are too many happy white people and crosses, and not enough migrants,” the jury said.

The film of the town also featured on YouTube and attracted over 3,000 views. One of the European Union’s experts replied with: “This is the propaganda film for white Christian Europe; everyone is white, happy and dancing in the streets.”

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3845

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:59 am

Brive1987 wrote: Kirb you keeping saying "ethnostate" like there's a single shit-flavoured choice available. Have you analysed this need to simplify?
Well, that's because there IS a single choice: basing the laws and principles of a country on the requirement of belonging to a specific ethnicity. I don't care how you slice it, it's still all about ethnos before principles, it's in the definition of "ethno-state" after all. It's like trying to analyze the different flavors of authoritarian communism: yes, there are differences between Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and the Un family, but the basic idea of the "dictatorship of the Community Party" is the problem.
Here is a happy video of a nasty ethnotown, made for the finals of the European culture competition.
With only seven semi-finalists left, the Hungarian town of Székesfehérvár made a promotional film for the jury. The film shows the town’s most beautiful places, a happy couple and some kids playing.


Alas.
But the EU’s jury rejected the submission of Székesfehérvár’s debut film: “There are too many happy white people and crosses, and not enough migrants,” the jury said.

The film of the town also featured on YouTube and attracted over 3,000 views. One of the European Union’s experts replied with: “This is the propaganda film for white Christian Europe; everyone is white, happy and dancing in the streets.”
This is dumb as hell, I agree. This is forcing and requiring diversity on demand. But the inverse of this isn't "an ethno-state", it's simply not REQUIRING diversity in each and every manifestation of culture or of self-expression.

There's a difference between "only whites/Hungarians can apply" and "we don't have to include diversity on demand". If you call both things "ethno-states", well, that's on you, but one is a set of laws to specifically exclude some ethnicity, the other is simply saying "this place is majority X, and there's nothing wrong about this reality".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3846

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:02 am

Székesfehérvár really needs a couple of 747 loads of Chinese property speculators - civic law abiding of course.

Yes. That's the missing spice. Maybe some Syrians and sub saharanites could also help fill the obvious gaps.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3847

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:09 am

Also, the EU jury are a bunch of dumbasses. There's a black guy at 0.44, and again at 1.05, sitting at a coffee table, having coffee with all the Evil White People. I guess that's not enough? How many black people are there in Szekesfehervar anyway?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3848

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:14 am

Brive1987 wrote: Székesfehérvár really needs a couple of 747 loads of Chinese property speculators - civic law abiding of course.

Yes. That's the missing spice. Maybe some Syrians and sub saharanites could also help fill the obvious gaps.
That's the thing: the city doesn't "need" anything. The framing of the fact that the demographics of the city are "problematic" and "something is missing" is retarded. There's no "need" for diversity.

That's the biggest mistake of the "woke"/postmodern folk, saying that diversity is a "need" and that if there is no diversity then there's a problem. That's dumb as hell. As long as the are no discriminatory laws for people who are there, why is the lack of "diversity" such a big deal?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3849

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:16 am

Kirb, simply saying variation in definitions of ES are the same as variances in communism doesnt make it so.

And "basing the laws and principles ..." is not the same as having policies controlling the influx of foreign cultures. But thank you for granting countries the right to avoid 'required' diversity. I assume you will support the practical measures required to police this choice in Poland, Hungary, Japan and elsewhere.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3850

Post by Shatterface » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:58 am

What's the difference between 'diversity' and entropy?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3851

Post by feathers » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:29 am

Shatterface wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:58 am
What's the difference between 'diversity' and entropy?
I've never thought of the reaction between perchloric acid and sodium as "increasing diversity" but perhaps you could propose it at your next community council meeting. Let us know how it went (once you're released).

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3852

Post by screwtape » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:04 am

Pitchguest wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:14 pm
I keep seeing this narrative from Black Twitter™ about Black Panther making white people "uncomfortable" because a) apparently it's the first black superhero film, b) they're going to be forced to watch a film with black people in the cinema (as if this is something new and revolutionary) and c) that now everything's going to change, and I'm just quietly wondering to myself if these people were never actually born but grown in tubes and released only a few days ago...
They done been SHAFTED.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3853

Post by Shatterface » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:48 am

feathers wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:58 am
What's the difference between 'diversity' and entropy?
I've never thought of the reaction between perchloric acid and sodium as "increasing diversity" but perhaps you could propose it at your next community council meeting. Let us know how it went (once you're released).
In a highly entropic society all structural inequalities will be broken down and men, women, black, white, whatever, will be evenly distributed throughout all levels of society, just like stirring different colours of paint together.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3854

Post by MacGruberKnows » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:45 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:40 am
Kirb you keeping saying "ethnostate" like there's a single shit-flavoured choice available. Have you analysed this need to simplify?

Here is a happy video of a nasty ethnotown, made for the finals of the European culture competition.
With only seven semi-finalists left, the Hungarian town of Székesfehérvár made a promotional film for the jury. The film shows the town’s most beautiful places, a happy couple and some kids playing.


Alas.
But the EU’s jury rejected the submission of Székesfehérvár’s debut film: “There are too many happy white people and crosses, and not enough migrants,” the jury said.

The film of the town also featured on YouTube and attracted over 3,000 views. One of the European Union’s experts replied with: “This is the propaganda film for white Christian Europe; everyone is white, happy and dancing in the streets.”
Apparently, not shithole enough.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3855

Post by Old_ones » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:34 am

Shatterface wrote: What's the difference between 'diversity' and entropy?
Diversity is our strength, duh. Its super simple. Clearly you need to be re-educated because you didn't get it the first time.

:naughty:

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3856

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:26 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Székesfehérvár really needs a couple of 747 loads of Chinese property speculators - civic law abiding of course.

Yes. That's the missing spice. Maybe some Syrians and sub saharanites could also help fill the obvious gaps.
That's the thing: the city doesn't "need" anything. The framing of the fact that the demographics of the city are "problematic" and "something is missing" is retarded. There's no "need" for diversity.

That's the biggest mistake of the "woke"/postmodern folk, saying that diversity is a "need" and that if there is no diversity then there's a problem. That's dumb as hell. As long as the are no discriminatory laws for people who are there, why is the lack of "diversity" such a big deal?
So a (democratically) mandated lack of diversity now sits happily alongside your views that civic nationalism is the one true way? Ie you would endorse an immigration policy that (democratically) seeks to retain and build upon ethnic strength while limiting disorder? Maybe one that identifies preferred sources and has a language test?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3857

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Székesfehérvár really needs a couple of 747 loads of Chinese property speculators - civic law abiding of course.

Yes. That's the missing spice. Maybe some Syrians and sub saharanites could also help fill the obvious gaps.
That's the thing: the city doesn't "need" anything. The framing of the fact that the demographics of the city are "problematic" and "something is missing" is retarded. There's no "need" for diversity.

That's the biggest mistake of the "woke"/postmodern folk, saying that diversity is a "need" and that if there is no diversity then there's a problem. That's dumb as hell. As long as the are no discriminatory laws for people who are there, why is the lack of "diversity" such a big deal?
So a (democratically) mandated lack of diversity now sits happily alongside your views that civic nationalism is the one true way? Ie you would endorse an immigration policy that (democratically) seeks to retain and build upon ethnic strength while limiting disorder? Maybe one that identifies preferred sources and has a language test?
If it's written in a rational way, based on skills in addition to preferred sources, and includes provisions for documented political, religious and social refugees from oppressive regimes (like, for example, a preference for women over men, for gay muslims over straight ones, and for ex-muslim activists) instead of being similar to Steersman's Qu'ran piss test/deportations, then such a policy wouldn't be that bad. I wouldn't call this an "ethno-state", though.

The devil, as usual, is in the details.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3858

Post by Guest_ae9d5722 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:54 pm

Would something like an extra tax credit or child benefit payment only payable to indigenous people be bad? If (highly unlikely) the UK decided to gve extra cash to only white brits, would that really be so bad (I'm assuming it doesn't come tied to ovens, gas, camps, mass deportations and slave labour. Just an extra handout that only the majority population get).

I've actually had the thought that if rich old racists really cared so much about keeping Britain/Europe white, they could easily set up some kind of club which takes dues from members and pays a credit to parents, and it would be perfectly lawful to limit that benefit (by limiting membership) to white folks. We are allowed to have organisations and clubs that only allow particular groups to join. That'll never happen though because when you ask anyone to put their money where their mouth is, they shut up.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3859

Post by Shatterface » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:10 pm

What definition of 'perfectly lawful' are you applying?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3860

Post by Guest_ae9d5722 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:26 pm

The one that allows Ethnic groups to have community organisations and clubs that only members of said groups are permitted to join. I can go to rave at the "west Indian community centre", but I can't join the group that owns it or sit on the board of it.

You can't open a club to the public and then deny membership to (insert group), but you can set up a private club specifically for (insert group).

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3861

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:27 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
If it's written in a rational way, based on skills in addition to preferred sources, and includes provisions for documented political, religious and social refugees from oppressive regimes (like, for example, a preference for women over men, for gay muslims over straight ones, and for ex-muslim activists) instead of being similar to Steersman's Qu'ran piss test/deportations, then such a policy wouldn't be that bad. I wouldn't call this an "ethno-state", though.

The devil, as usual, is in the details.
Indeed it is.

And in that context, I assume you mean skill preference within a preferred source. Otherwise you negate the overall stated goal of in context relative cultural homogeneity.

Do you class central Eastern European countries as ethnostates? Or does you definition require an already potpourri state to be trying to regress via illiberal means? Would you classify a potpourri state which begins to stress the culture of the original founders and the current dominant group as being implicitly Nazi?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3862

Post by Guest_ae9d5722 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:46 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -clubs.pdf

"A private club or other association cannot restrict
membership on the basis of skin colour, but
can restrict membership based on ethnic origin.
However, although the rules defining who can join
must not use colour, a club could have a name that
refers to colour.
Example
The constitution of the Black Women’s
Culture Club states that membership
is open to any woman whose national
origins are in Africa or the Caribbean.
This would be permitted because, even
though colour is referred to in the
name, it restricts membership based on
ethnic origin rather than colour."


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3864

Post by Shatterface » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Guest_ae9d5722 wrote: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -clubs.pdf

"A private club or other association cannot restrict
membership on the basis of skin colour, but
can restrict membership based on ethnic origin.
However, although the rules defining who can join
must not use colour, a club could have a name that
refers to colour.
Example
The constitution of the Black Women’s
Culture Club states that membership
is open to any woman whose national
origins are in Africa or the Caribbean.
This would be permitted because, even
though colour is referred to in the
name, it restricts membership based on
ethnic origin rather than colour."
So your definition of a perfectly legal organisation for the benefit of white people depends on a law that specifically rules out discrimination based on skin colour?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3865

Post by jet_lagg » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:20 pm

Brive, I'm having trouble understanding what it is you actually disagree with kirbmarc on beyond some abstract hand waving at a cultural component vital to ideal society which is itself tied to (though not in any inherent way) ethnicity. When asked for specifics you gave an elaborate metaphor about a street full of family owned shops with their own identity and outlined an immigration policy that 1) did not explicitly list a racial requirement and 2) when combined with the merit/linguistic/cultural requirements you both agree in would be a de facto ethnic test in 90% of cases. Except that last 10% nuance is very important. What am I missing here?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3866

Post by jet_lagg » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:20 pm

I ask this btw because the sniping has been going on for weeks.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3867

Post by shoutinghorse » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:22 pm

They've discovered Vibranium.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3868

Post by Guest_ae9d5722 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Yes.
Admittedly, the name of Britain's majority ethnic group(s) and traditional longstanding population contains the word white, so that's a bit tricky. :D

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3869

Post by Ape+lust » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:38 pm

Haha, now comes the "fuck you, pay me" bit. There's a charge for being woke, whitey.

https://imgur.com/AjqyEas.png

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disne ... topic_page

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3870

Post by Guest_ae9d5722 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:50 pm

I'm pretty sure a collection of words could be grouped together in such a way as to make membership criteria based on belonging to ethnic groups which have populated a geographical area over a period of time without mentioning the colour of their skin. You could state outright in the rules that skin colour is not a determining factor and that people of mixed origins could join, but setting a cut off of when how far back you can trace your people. Even going to the 2nd world war would have the effect of being near enough a white folks only club.

I personally don't give a shit what colour people are, I'm just , what do they say "JAQing off". There are lots of Nigels down the pub, who b;athe ron about displaceent and blah blah, low key white identity stuff, but if you suggest they might want to stick their hand on their pocket so that chavs can have more chav babies, they don;t like the idea.


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3871

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:52 pm

jet_lagg wrote: Brive, I'm having trouble understanding what it is you actually disagree with kirbmarc on beyond some abstract hand waving at a cultural component vital to ideal society which is itself tied to (though not in any inherent way) ethnicity. When asked for specifics you gave an elaborate metaphor about a street full of family owned shops with their own identity and outlined an immigration policy that 1) did not explicitly list a racial requirement and 2) when combined with the merit/linguistic/cultural requirements you both agree in would be a de facto ethnic test in 90% of cases. Except that last 10% nuance is very important. What am I missing here?
It's not that I think that the "linguistic/cultural" component is strictly necessary in all countries, only that you're not some sort of Nazi/fascist if you add that in. Switzerland has sort of that system, and it's definitely not a fascist state, but I'm not sure that the same system works exactly as well in other countries (like the US). It all heavily depends on the details.

Also I'm not entirely sure what Brive's point is at times.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3872

Post by KiwiInOz » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:00 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: snip

Also I'm not entirely sure what Brive's point is at times.
Is Brive?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3873

Post by MacGruberKnows » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Ape+lust wrote: Haha, now comes the "fuck you, pay me" bit. There's a charge for being woke, whitey.

https://imgur.com/AjqyEas.png

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disne ... topic_page

Sage Moot·1 week ago
Stan Lee - a WHITE man is profiting off of the GREATNESS of MELANIN. GIVE BACK YOUR PROFITS.
Or maybe get off your ass and go make your own profits.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3874

Post by Tigzy » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:42 pm


Sage Moot·1 week ago
Stan Lee - a WHITE man is profiting off of the GREATNESS of MELANIN. GIVE BACK YOUR PROFITS.
Or maybe get off your ass and go make your own profits.
[/quote]

By far and away my favourite response:
Michael Jones
5 days ago ago
You know, you could just not see the movie and keep 100% of your money in the community.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3875

Post by jet_lagg » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:13 pm

Black Panther was good. The audience as about 90% white though. If there was any black joy in the theater we sucked it all.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3876

Post by John D » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:02 pm

Holy fucking shit... another bad week for me... but I am solid. I have an appointment with a coach next weekend... so we will see if I like that experience.

So, my wife and I are up in Marquette Michigan visiting my daughter who just got out of the psych hospital. She starts back to work tomorrow. We are super concerned. She is blaming her problems on here ADD but I think there is more to it than that. (Yes.... this is my daughter who is poly... she is married and also has a live-in female fuck buddy). My son-in-law basically told me over dinner that he "did not sign up for this". So, when my kid is having a hard time he is not gonna cut her any slack. She just has to see her doc and get better cause that was "the deal" when they married. And I'm like... "No... you married her to help her when she is down." and he is like... "No... I told her what I expected.... blah... blah... blah." And he is saying this right in front of me and my kid. WTF! I have been super honest. I basically said he was creating an impossible standard for my daughter because now he has a backup partner.... and is perfectly happy to dump her.... and their fuck buddy says no... she will not stay with him in that case (because she doesn't want to be a home wrecker). But, I have learned a lot about fuck buddy... and she is a manipulative liar herself... and treats my daughter like a child.

So, my wife and I are pretty sure the marriage is over, but my kid is still sticking by her husband. We asked for a family meeting tonight and they (all three of them) rejected us and... my kid told my wife and I to "fuck off" on a text. So, pretty much we don't have any way to help them. I expect my kid will be hospitalized again and maybe she will move back in with us once her husband is finished with her. I could be thinking too negatively, but I don't think so. Yesterday I spent the day with the three of them and all they did was fight, or cry, or walk out... and then my daughter had a complete emotional breakdown. I have only seen her behave this way one time in her life. I think the poly relationship has her in a kind of emotional land mine environment. I have never witnessed so much turmoil in one family in one day.... ever. And she thinks she is gonna be fine... and work full time.... and grocery shop... and cook some of the dinners... and clean the bath... and do the dishes... and manage everyone's hurt feelings.

Anyway... this experience has brought my wife and I closer. So, we have made some progress moving along with our problems. Wow. shit. I feel like I have failed my daughter. But... maybe she will work this out. There is always hope trapped in Pandora's jar.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3877

Post by AndrewV69 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:08 pm

shoutinghorse wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:22 pm
They've discovered Vibranium.

Acccording to a couple of people in that thread:

1. They are speaking in Marathi so probably India
2. Allegedly the company did not pay them for work done.

Whole bunch of knee jerk, bigoted, stupid etc. etc. etc. individuals in the responses.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3878

Post by katamari Damassi » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 pm

I saw Black Panther today. I liked it. It's not my favorite Marvel movie, but I rank it higher than some of them-Age of Ultron, Iron Man 2, Thor 1 and 2.
It is bit too preachy, and needed more Andy Serkis, who seems to be having the most fun in it.
If you're easily offended then you probably will be. White people are frequently referred to as colonizers, but considering that It's set in a fictional African country surrounded by former colonies, it made sense. I would be really surprised if wannabee revolutionaries like Black Hitler like this movie. They're the villains in this. Black Panther is a "can't we all just get along" sort of guy.
My main problems with the movie are that it could've used more super heroics. Most of the action centers around an internal power struggle. I didn't find Wakanda aesthetically pleasing. I also couldn't help wondering what do all of those people living in the skyscrapers do? Considering that it's completely isolated, where do they get their money? What kind of economy do they have? I didn't see any industrial areas. It's just countryside, skyscrapers, and the mine. Does everyone work in the mine? Maybe I'm asking too much of a movie, but I found it distracting.
Other nerd nitpick: in Age of Ultron, Wakanda is shown to have a port city, but in this movie it's located in the vicinity of Burundi. So now the MCU is ruined for me.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3879

Post by katamari Damassi » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:51 pm

Other nerd nitpick: at the beginning it appears that the movie will deviate from the Marvel formula-main baddie is an evil version of the hero-but by the third act they're right back to formula.
Best part other than Andy Serkis is the Dora Milaje which is based on the royal guards of Dahomey. And Lupita Nyongo looks stunning.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3880

Post by Lsuoma » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:55 pm

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Ape+lust wrote: Haha, now comes the "fuck you, pay me" bit. There's a charge for being woke, whitey.

https://imgur.com/AjqyEas.png

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disne ... topic_page

Sage Moot·1 week ago
Stan Lee - a WHITE man is profiting off of the GREATNESS of MELANIN. GIVE BACK YOUR PROFITS.
Or maybe get off your ass and go make your own profits.
Nah. Rent seeking is alive and well in Blackistan.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3881

Post by Mr. X, Indeed » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:58 pm

AndrewV69 wrote:
shoutinghorse wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:22 pm
They've discovered Vibranium.

Acccording to a couple of people in that thread:

1. They are speaking in Marathi so probably India
2. Allegedly the company did not pay them for work done.

Whole bunch of knee jerk, bigoted, stupid etc. etc. etc. individuals in the responses.
This seems to be the only coverage: http://www.climatesamurai.com/videos/wa ... -of-wages/

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3882

Post by KiwiInOz » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:59 pm

katamari Damassi wrote: I saw Black Panther today. I liked it. It's not my favorite Marvel movie, but I rank it higher than some of them-Age of Ultron, Iron Man 2, Thor 1 and 2.
It is bit too preachy, and needed more Andy Serkis, who seems to be having the most fun in it.
If you're easily offended then you probably will be. White people are frequently referred to as colonizers, but considering that It's set in a fictional African country surrounded by former colonies, it made sense. I would be really surprised if wannabee revolutionaries like Black Hitler like this movie. They're the villains in this. Black Panther is a "can't we all just get along" sort of guy.
My main problems with the movie are that it could've used more super heroics. Most of the action centers around an internal power struggle. I didn't find Wakanda aesthetically pleasing. I also couldn't help wondering what do all of those people living in the skyscrapers do? Considering that it's completely isolated, where do they get their money? What kind of economy do they have? I didn't see any industrial areas. It's just countryside, skyscrapers, and the mine. Does everyone work in the mine? Maybe I'm asking too much of a movie, but I found it distracting.
Other nerd nitpick: in Age of Ultron, Wakanda is shown to have a port city, but in this movie it's located in the vicinity of Burundi. So now the MCU is ruined for me.
The movie took itself a bit too seriously, like Branagh's Thor, but then there were a lot of expectations on it, so fair enough. There were some funny bits in it, but I found that I was the only one in the theatre who was laughing.

General Okoye and W'Kabi were unconvincing as lovers, but it was only a plot device to set up and contrast duty and betrayal. So that's ok. But there was obviously a better relationship between the battle rhino and Okoye.

Shuri as Q worked and had some nice light moments (and made me think of Abbie).

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3883

Post by Hunt » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:47 pm

jet_lagg wrote: Black Panther was good. The audience as about 90% white though. If there was any black joy in the theater we sucked it all.
Maybe if some of you had shown up in blackface it would have helped? Maybe not.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3884

Post by feathers » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:21 pm

Shatterface wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:48 am
In a highly entropic society all structural inequalities will be broken down and men, women, black, white, whatever, will be evenly distributed throughout all levels of society, just like stirring different colours of paint together.
Oh, they will be distributed alright, if you try that trick with the perchloric acid. But not precisely like "stirring paint", unless you refer to Mr Bean's way of doing it.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3885

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:21 pm

jet_lagg wrote: Brive, I'm having trouble understanding what it is you actually disagree with kirbmarc on beyond some abstract hand waving at a cultural component vital to ideal society which is itself tied to (though not in any inherent way) ethnicity. When asked for specifics you gave an elaborate metaphor about a street full of family owned shops with their own identity and outlined an immigration policy that 1) did not explicitly list a racial requirement and 2) when combined with the merit/linguistic/cultural requirements you both agree in would be a de facto ethnic test in 90% of cases. Except that last 10% nuance is very important. What am I missing here?
My hypothesis is that Kirb’s a classic liberal civic nationalist, despising collective identity outside an adherence to generic “muh values”. This in opposition to the Goldy approach: that the value of a geographically defined state lies in it’s unique historical ethnic/cultural heritage. The Goldy approach resists the multicultural agenda of either applying a beige wash or, more realistically, silos until a new dominant culture emerges.

If proven, that hypothesis woUld be bad enough. But when push comes to shove Kirb throws smoke, before once more rolling out the vile ethnostate trope. I suspect his plan is to create two intolerable poles and then occupy the reasonable middle ground with his civic nonsense.

On a secondary level, I also suspect Kirb recognises the considersble dilutation of unique euro-culture and sees pragmatic rectification as coming at the cost of his liberal abstractions. He may not be wrong here - apart from devaluing the terminal illness because of the tartness of the remedy.

Ps I didn’t think my metaphor describing an Uber-collective deriving it’s value from its unique parts was elaborate. :snooty:

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3886

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Of course I could be wrong.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3887

Post by AndrewV69 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:53 am

Brive1987 wrote: Of course I could be wrong.
Sorry, but for some reason I lost the plot a long time ago and there is no way I am going to go back and try and figure out what y'all been going on about.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3888

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:04 am

Bari Weiss, now that's a Nazi name if I've ever heard one. Also do you know that she called a daughter of immigrants an immigrant while saying that immigrants are awesome? Just like Hitler.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3889

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:41 am

Brive1987 wrote: My hypothesis is that Kirb’s a classic liberal civic nationalist, despising collective identity outside an adherence to generic “muh values”. This in opposition to the Goldy approach: that the value of a geographically defined state lies in it’s unique historical ethnic/cultural heritage. The Goldy approach resists the multicultural agenda of either applying a beige wash or, more realistically, silos until a new dominant culture emerges.
I don't "despise" collective identity, I simply don't see it as the one and only meter of judgement, as Goldy and you sometimes seem to do. In reality ALL geographically defined states have had cultural/religious minorities within them. Even Japan has the Korean minority and the Ainu. Switzerland is actually a multi-cultural country, with four official languages (oh noes!) and the Protestant/Catholic divide.

Collective identity isn't the Platonic absolute you seem to think it is. It's important, and shouldn't messed with just for the sake of demanding "diversity", but national harmony and a degree of integration matter a lot, too. Of course this doesn't mean that one should post-modernly "deconstruct" identity and force diversity, or that competing collective identities within a geographically defined state never create friction (the Basque country, Catalunia, Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Syria, Afganistan, and countless other examples show just how much trouble can come when two collective identities within a geographically defined state clash).

So what you need is a pragmatic compromise to ensure that a degree of integration, at least formal and legal integration,is achieved and there's less room for tension and friction. This might require revising immigration laws to ensure that this is possible, with the goal of avoiding ghettoization (the "silos") and not of demanding mixing at all costs (the "beige") but of creating some kind of compromise that ensures coexistence.

Rapid, uncontrolled, mass immigration might threaten that. I'm not in the naive camp that sees complete integration as the inevitable result of living together (it never happened in the Basque countries after all) and sees every group as equally capable of integration at any number (to carry this view to its logically extreme results some people, like Justin "Zoolander" Trudeau for example, seem to think that former ISIS fighters will roll back and become law-abiding, tolerant citizens of a liberal democracy, which is clearly insane).

But the problem of "what do you do to minorities that are already there in the "ethno-state", since all states have minorities" isn't a trivial one.

Also, again pragmatically speaking, a lot of people marry inter-culturally, or have inter-cultural friends. Under a rigid interpretation of your position (which I'm not sure you follow) this is anathema, the horrid "beige", compromising the ethnic and cultural identity. But like it or not, it does happen, and one cannot avoid it happening unless using Gestapo methods. Maybe you don't see purity as supremely important and are willing to come to a pragmatic compromise on this issue (after all you don't strike me as a Richard Spencer fan). Fine, but if you're already accepting a pragmatic compromise, why not others?
If proven, that hypothesis would be bad enough. But when push comes to shove Kirb throws smoke, before once more rolling out the vile ethnostate trope. I suspect his plan is to create two intolerable poles and then occupy the reasonable middle ground with his civic nonsense.
Pot, meet kettle. You haven't defined your position clearly, about what it entails legally, socially, etc. I'm open to pragmatic compromise to make the state function without going full Steersman or full Trudeau. What do YOU want, in detail? Maybe we can come to a compromise.
On a secondary level, I also suspect Kirb recognises the considersble dilutation of unique euro-culture and sees pragmatic rectification as coming at the cost of his liberal abstractions. He may not be wrong here - apart from devaluing the terminal illness because of the tartness of the remedy.

Ps I didn’t think my metaphor describing an Uber-collective deriving it’s value from its unique parts was elaborate. :snooty:
I'm not talking about liberal abstractions, I'm talking about concrete situations and concrete decisions informed, yes, by liberal-democratic values, like "forced population transfers aren't a good idea in terms of human rights" or "prohibiting inter-cultural contact and marriage is a big violation of individual rights" (don't like that? sue me).

Now you could say that you've never argued for Steerman-esque "population transfers" or Gestapo levels of Nazi purity. Fine. I can accept that. But again, the question becomes about what do you want, concretely?

Basically for me the questions are "minorities already exist, what exactly do you do about that?" or "immigration comes with a set of issues, including cultural issues, what exactly do you do about that?". Or others of that sort. I'm less interested in discussing the idea of the Uber-collective and more the practical details of how things work legally, socially, etc.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3890

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:54 am

I don't "despise" cultural identity. If you want to do a festival or even a state holiday or simply a cultural promotional video to celebrate your cultural heritage, fine, have fun, dance, sing, cook, express yourself according to your identity however you want. The SocJus seems to think this is great when non-white people do it, but horrid racism/white supremacy if it's white people who do it (because whites are inherently Evil) and so everything done by whites has to be "inclusive" while everything done by non-whites can be as exclusive as those people want. THAT might be reasonably be called "despising certain kinds of cultural identity".

I don't see Whites as Evil, so I don't have those SocJus foibles. Hungarian people dancing Hungarian folk songs,representing Hungarian heritage (including the fact the Hungary is predominantly white) in various celebratory ways in a promotional video about Hungary not only doesn't bother me, I see as making a whole lot of sense, and the EU officials who wanted to classify that video as "white Europe propaganda" and demand more non-white people are SocJus dumbasses who are only going to alienate Hungary even more from the EU elite.

What I'm concerned about when it comes to "ethno-states" is how exactly they work, and do they go the Steersman way or not, and what exactly happens to minorities who are already there, and how are immigration laws written to avoid cultural clash as much as possible and to maintain a cultural continuity.

Also, incidentally, cultures change over time, and absorb elements of other cultures. When white cultures do it from non-white cultures the SocJus calls it "cultural appropriation", which is once again a product of the SocJus always seeing Whites as Evil Predators. The neo-Nazi/neo-fascist part of the "alt-right" calls it "degeneration", showing once again how much the SocJus strives to become the inverted polarity of the Stromfront fans. Sane people call it the inevitable results of the spread of memes across channels of communication.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3891

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:32 am

By the way not all countries have the same history or society or geography, so not all countries need the exact same laws and attitudes towards immigration. Hungary isn't the United States, and neither is Switzerland.

Even from a SocJus perspective of all whites as colonists who need to pay for colonization (which is, of course, counterproductive and asinine) Hungary and Switzerland were never colonial powers (and many non-white countries were more "colonial" than many European white countries, but that's another story).

Then there's the issue of geographical space, of institutions, of structures, of economy, etc. etc. Pointing out that Hungary, for example, likely doesn't have the structures or the institutions to deal with the same rates of immigration of the US isn't "Nazism", no matter how much the SocJus fans scream that it is.

Basically the matter of immigration is complex, a thorny issue with many factors to be considered, and the current leftist attitude of seeing anyone who opposes mass migration, or even single immigration programs, as an uncouth barbarian at best and an outright Nazi at worst is incredibly stupid.

This doesn't mean that all the ideas of the right are valid, or productive, or motivated entirely by rational arguments.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3892

Post by jet_lagg » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:25 am

jet_lagg wrote: Brive, I'm having trouble understanding [anything you're talking about].
My hypothesis is that Kirb’s a classic liberal civic nationalist...[/quote]

You say that like it's a bad thing.
...despising collective identity outside an adherence to generic “muh values”. This in opposition to the Goldy approach: that the value of a geographically defined state lies in it’s unique historical ethnic/cultural heritage. The Goldy approach resists the multicultural agenda of either applying a beige wash or, more realistically, silos until a new dominant culture emerges.
Again, I'm not seeing the objection. Being a naturally contrarian person (I suspect everyone here is) I'm very interested in carving out some rights for a group that only adheres to larger society in the very broad sense of "muh values". So, it's a greedy desire, but it also manifests some objectively superior outcomes, like casting the widest net possible, minimizing the number of type 2 errors in your screening. Any society that would reject Ayan Hirisi Ali and accept PZ Myers needs to seriously reevaluate its decision making process. This is the only sane way to set up the blunt force rules of saying who is and who is not part of the in group. The murky work of establishing who belongs in what culture can be easily sorted by the people it directly applies to without any government interference, so long as everyone submits to that central authority (I'm a civic nationalist first, TERF/Trans girl second). I agree this will lead to atomization, the silo's you speak of, but so what? Collectivism is only necessary for large scale projects like defense, science, infrastructure, etc... I'd add that you'll have this atomization no matter what you try. I grew up in a specific specific country, in a specific state, in a specific region of that state which was defined specifically by our shared heritage as former manufacturing towns and we still managed to consider anyone to the north or south to be alien and weird.
Ps I didn’t think my metaphor describing an Uber-collective deriving it’s value from its unique parts was elaborate. :snooty:
Well, relatively elaborate. Compared to the neoreactionaries I'm being reminded of it was the opposite of elaborate, succinct even ;)

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3893

Post by jet_lagg » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:25 am

Every goddamn time you don't use the preview button...

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3894

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:34 am

jet_lagg wrote: Any society that would reject Ayan Hirisi Ali and accept PZ Myers needs to seriously reevaluate its decision making process.
:lol:

PZ Myers is popular with the Chinese government, perhaps he should try to learn Mandarin to blend in?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3895

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:13 am

John D wrote: My son-in-law basically told me over dinner that he "did not sign up for this".
No, he signed up for carefree double-your-pleasure, double-your-whooty fun.

So, when my kid is having a hard time he is not gonna cut her any slack. She just has to see her doc and get better cause that was "the deal" when they married. And I'm like... "No... you married her to help her when she is down." and he is like... "No... I told her what I expected.... blah... blah... blah." And he is saying this right in front of me and my kid. WTF! I have been super honest. I basically said he was creating an impossible standard for my daughter because now he has a backup partner.... and is perfectly happy to dump her.... and their fuck buddy says no... she will not stay with him in that case (because she doesn't want to be a home wrecker). But, I have learned a lot about fuck buddy... and she is a manipulative liar herself... and treats my daughter like a child.
But I thought polyfuckerists respect each other as independent adults and not property?

So, my wife and I are pretty sure the marriage is over, but my kid is still sticking by her husband. We asked for a family meeting tonight and they (all three of them) rejected us and... my kid told my wife and I to "fuck off" on a text.
.... because polyfuckerists are better at communication than the rest of us.


Yesterday I spent the day with the three of them and all they did was fight, or cry, or walk out... and then my daughter had a complete emotional breakdown. I have only seen her behave this way one time in her life. I think the poly relationship has her in a kind of emotional land mine environment. I have never witnessed so much turmoil in one family in one day.... ever.
But at least they aren't living a 'social lie'.

There is always hope trapped in Pandora's jar.
Pandora's box. But maybe you all in the midwest say 'jar' for 'box', like 'stone fence' for 'stone wall', or 'pop' for 'soda.'

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3896

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:14 am

John D wrote: My son-in-law basically told me over dinner that he "did not sign up for this".
No, he signed up for carefree double-your-pleasure, double-your-whooty fun.

So, when my kid is having a hard time he is not gonna cut her any slack. She just has to see her doc and get better cause that was "the deal" when they married. And I'm like... "No... you married her to help her when she is down." and he is like... "No... I told her what I expected.... blah... blah... blah." And he is saying this right in front of me and my kid. WTF! I have been super honest. I basically said he was creating an impossible standard for my daughter because now he has a backup partner.... and is perfectly happy to dump her.... and their fuck buddy says no... she will not stay with him in that case (because she doesn't want to be a home wrecker). But, I have learned a lot about fuck buddy... and she is a manipulative liar herself... and treats my daughter like a child.
But I thought polyfuckerists respect each other as independent adults and not property?

So, my wife and I are pretty sure the marriage is over, but my kid is still sticking by her husband. We asked for a family meeting tonight and they (all three of them) rejected us and... my kid told my wife and I to "fuck off" on a text.
.... because polyfuckerists are better at communication than the rest of us.


Yesterday I spent the day with the three of them and all they did was fight, or cry, or walk out... and then my daughter had a complete emotional breakdown. I have only seen her behave this way one time in her life. I think the poly relationship has her in a kind of emotional land mine environment. I have never witnessed so much turmoil in one family in one day.... ever.
But at least they aren't living a 'social lie'.

There is always hope trapped in Pandora's jar.
Pandora's box. But maybe you all in the midwest say 'jar' for 'box', like 'stone fence' for 'stone wall', or 'pop' for 'soda.'

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3897

Post by Barbie's Boyfriend » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:09 am

Kirbmarc wrote:

PZ Myers is popular with the Chinese government, perhaps he should try to learn Mandarin to blend in?
Dan Arel is popular with the North Korean guvmint. Perhaps he should try eating dogs !!!

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3898

Post by mike150160 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:51 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
John D wrote: My son-in-law basically told me over dinner that he "did not sign up for this".
No, he signed up for carefree double-your-pleasure, double-your-whooty fun.

So, when my kid is having a hard time he is not gonna cut her any slack. She just has to see her doc and get better cause that was "the deal" when they married. And I'm like... "No... you married her to help her when she is down." and he is like... "No... I told her what I expected.... blah... blah... blah." And he is saying this right in front of me and my kid. WTF! I have been super honest. I basically said he was creating an impossible standard for my daughter because now he has a backup partner.... and is perfectly happy to dump her.... and their fuck buddy says no... she will not stay with him in that case (because she doesn't want to be a home wrecker). But, I have learned a lot about fuck buddy... and she is a manipulative liar herself... and treats my daughter like a child.
But I thought polyfuckerists respect each other as independent adults and not property?

So, my wife and I are pretty sure the marriage is over, but my kid is still sticking by her husband. We asked for a family meeting tonight and they (all three of them) rejected us and... my kid told my wife and I to "fuck off" on a text.
.... because polyfuckerists are better at communication than the rest of us.


Yesterday I spent the day with the three of them and all they did was fight, or cry, or walk out... and then my daughter had a complete emotional breakdown. I have only seen her behave this way one time in her life. I think the poly relationship has her in a kind of emotional land mine environment. I have never witnessed so much turmoil in one family in one day.... ever.
But at least they aren't living a 'social lie'.

There is always hope trapped in Pandora's jar.
Pandora's box. But maybe you all in the midwest say 'jar' for 'box', like 'stone fence' for 'stone wall', or 'pop' for 'soda.'
Nope Jar: pithos in the earliest version I think

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3899

Post by John D » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:56 am

FYI - both box and jar are used.... but jar seems to be more accurate from the early sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3900

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:09 am

Aerosmith sez it's Pandora's Box. But they were talking about something else.

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