There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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DrokkIt
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2641

Post by DrokkIt »

Kirbmarc wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
He also had blue eyes, so it's more complicated than the SJW narrative.

Attacking one moronic racial narrative, ending up as it's shadow. Sad.

The news content of this story is "europeans had dark skin later than we had previous evidence to support". The fuss is "first britons were black". Might as well say the first people were apes, or fish, or single-celled lifeforms.


Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2643

Post by Kirbmarc »

DrokkIt wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
He also had blue eyes, so it's more complicated than the SJW narrative.

Attacking one moronic racial narrative, ending up as it's shadow. Sad.

The news content of this story is "europeans had dark skin later than we had previous evidence to support". The fuss is "first britons were black". Might as well say the first people were apes, or fish, or single-celled lifeforms.


Well the first humans were dark-skinned. So I guess we're all black and racism is over, hallelujah! David Duke is black and Richard Spencer is also black, they just need to be told that they're black.

Also, no such thing as cultural appropriation, because we're all black.

Or maybe it's a bit more complicated than that.

John D
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2644

Post by John D »

8d5.gif
(154.4 KiB) Downloaded 378 times

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2645

Post by Kirbmarc »

John D wrote: 8d5.gif
Yeah. A coherent postmodern thinker would have praised Dolezal for her subversive act of "smashing the social construct of race".

deLurch
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2646

Post by deLurch »

Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:43 pm
The Faith vs Southern silent, slow mo jelly fight continues.

I just want to see them kiss and make up.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2647

Post by Sunder »

Early hominids that still had dark fur had light skin underneath it as chimps still do, because fur and melanin kind of do the same job protecting from sunlight. Our skin darkened as we lost our fur then lightened again as we migrated north to less oppressively sun-drenched climes.

So yes, we're all from Africa. But deep down we are also all honkeys.

gurugeorge
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2648

Post by gurugeorge »

From my own digging around about "The Holocaust" I think the truth is far from clear, and quite frankly, what I think actually happened is that the "gas chambers used to genocide 6 million Jews" idea was initially a Soviet invention (probably at least partly to deflect attention from their own genocidal crimes), that everyone just believed and ran with, Allies and Jews alike, because in the relevant period the Russians were the ones who had liberated the supposed "death camps" in question, and no-one on the Allied side could fact-check the claims.

There really isn't any hard evidence to support the now-ingrained, now-oh-so-familiar story, and the eyewitness testimony is often hearsay and contradictory (there are also survivor stories which testify that Auschwitz was "merely" a work camp). The main corroborating testimony from a German officer that's often quoted seems to have been extracted by torture. The Nazis at Nuremberg of course laughed at the charge and thought it ridiculous - one would have thought that given their inevitable execution, and given their hatred of the Jews, they'd have been proud of it if they'd done it.

What probably actually happened was bad enough of course, but more like Gulag levels of horror, as opposed to the Grand Guignol level of horror of Holocaust mythology (complete with lampshades made from human skin, shrunken heads, etc. - all bogus). So far as I can tell re. hard facts, it looks like at least 300,000 Jews and other untermenschen were secretly shot in forests and buried in mass graves (which will probably never be found) as part of a deliberately genocidal policy during the Nazi drive eastwards (we know this because although the operation was secret, some of the officers charged with the task were traumatized by it and wrote about it in letters, a few committed suicide). The concentration camps as labor camps, where probably many hundreds of thousands of Jews and other untermenschen in total, maybe amounting to million or more, were mistreated and died from starvation and/or Typhus (which is probably what we're seeing in the famous film footage of skeletal survivors and heaps of dead bodies), are also real. There is also some hard evidence that the Nazis did at least toy with the idea of gas chambers as an execution method (an experimental gas truck was found, and another camp not far from Auschwitz definitely had a real gas chamber - again, experimental), and that's probably where the Soviets got the idea from.

But there were no gas chambers or evidence of genocidal mass execution at the camps liberated by the Allies, and there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz; the "gas chamber" and "crematorium" there are a post-war Soviet constructions based around the shower facilities - straightforward propaganda. Zyklon B was in fact a de-lousing agent, and that's what it was actually manufactured for, and commonly used for at the time, in order to try and keep a lid on the Europe-wide Typhus epidemic that occurred towards the end of the war. (Another curious side-light is that a lethal dose of Zyklon B produces a cyanotic appearance in the deceased, and nowhere is that reported in any of the eyewitness testimony. Also, to use Zyklon B for mass murder would require heavily sealed and isolated gas chambers with carefully insulated electronics, since it's highly flammable - which also makes a nonsense of the close proximity of the "crematorium" to the "gas chambers.")

The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).

Hitler did plenty wrong, but the way the Nazis (plus perhaps American slavery) have been magnified into a "hard stop" to history, more or less the SJW equivalent of Bishop Ussher's 6,000 year old Universe, as the ultimate Badwhite thing against which everything must be measured and referenced, is also wrong.

It's also quite insane that there is now a supposedly historical event that people can go to jail in some countries for doubting, and it beggars belief that many rationalists and public figures can just let that go without comment or complaint.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2649

Post by Kirbmarc »

That's one hell of a Gish Gallop there.

Perhaps Aneris was right, and some pipes were truly laid.

deLurch
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2650

Post by deLurch »

DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.

dogen
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2651

Post by dogen »

deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.
I'm just waiting for it to come out that he was a Muslim.

heddle
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2652

Post by heddle »

gurugeorge wrote: From my own digging around about "The Holocaust" I think the truth is far from clear, and quite frankly, what I think actually happened is that the "gas chambers used to genocide 6 million Jews" idea was initially a Soviet invention...
I hope this a Poe or satire that I'm not catching--because if you are serious then you're a fucking idiot.

MarcusAu
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2653

Post by MarcusAu »

heddle wrote: hope this a Poe or satire that I'm not catching--because if you are serious then you're a fucking idiot.
From what I've picked up this is standard Alt-Right boiler plate.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2654

Post by Kirbmarc »

gurugeorge wrote: The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).
I'm no Holocaust expert (Brive?) but this looks like complete bullshit, considering that the minutes of the Wannsee conference count up to 11 million Jews in Europe, of which 5 only in the USSR.

VickyCaramel
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2655

Post by VickyCaramel »

MarcusAu wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:27 am
VickyCaramel wrote:
Incidentally I wasn't really complaining that it is Jewish propaganda, it's now in fact part of their religion. Of course they are going to milk it for all it's worth, it's their people's history... it isn't my people's history. I don't have any more guilt for the holocaust than I do for slavery. Do you have any element of introspective guilt?
Which sort of begs the question - Who are your people?

You mentioned the Peasants Revolt earlier (and I'm sure you know Wat you are talking about) - but even earlier that you are of Huguenot decent (probably meaning that your ancestors arrived a littler afterways), and also that you had some interaction with WWII veterans (including German ones) - which may indicate a Saxon kinship.

Are you English or British and are the colonials still your people?

You don't have to say anything if you don't want - but for all I know you may wish to be Frank.

(nb I am not having a go - and in fact double checked to make sure the words in my head were consistent with what you actually wrote in the post...this time).
On my father's side I am firmly of Huguenot stock, I have traced every example of my family name that I can find and created a heat map. My family barely strayed more than 30 miles from North London in 300 years. They slowly spread out North and East, but seemed reluctant to go south of the river. Almost all of my family moved out to Essex and Hertfordshire, the bulk leaving during the racial tensions during the 1970s.

On my mother's side, things are a little more complicated although by luck they have unusual spellings of fairly common names which makes tracing them fairly easy. One strand can be traced back to the clan of King Soot, but their fortuned waned and they ended up a small lowland clan who fought for the English before becoming notorious outlaws in Southern Scotland and the North of England. It seems this branch of the family found it hard to give up their outlaw ways and it is rumoured that my great, great grandfather's sudden wealth came from fencing goods for the Jewish Mafia. His family essentially lived as Jews within the Jewish community for a couple of generations despite not actually being Jewish. My Grandmother's sister married a Jew who seemed a decent chap, although over the years we have read about that branch of the family in the newspapers in association with some of the UK's most notorious con-artists and gangsters.

However, the bulk of my mother's family are very respectable which brought my grandparents within regular bowing distance of the heads of the Church of England (Bishops and royalty). It is largely this branch of the family which began to travel and marry into foreign families. So I do have family and family friends as far apart as Germany and Hong Kong... speaking of which...

One of my Great Uncles was in the UK when war broke out, his family were murdered by the Japanese so he joined the Royal Engineers and became an assault engineer seconded to the Canadian Army. On returning from leave after being wounded on the beaches of Normandy he did a tour of concentration camps as a demolition expert.

Another of my ancestors was a Marine and served with the West Africa Squadron in the 1820s. So my family does have a history with the holocaust and slavery. My family has had quite a few soldiers, sailors and even a few spies which has brought them into contact with some of history's most important events, which of course my children will be made aware of.

However, my family's role in events from the Boxer Rebellion to The Troubles in Ulster are my family's history. When I said "My people", I meant the English/British.

My family rubbed shoulders with the Jewish community for generations. It is slightly subjective and a question of perspective, but I have a shared history with them to a point, for example the Luftwaffe's bombs fell on us all, we all suffered the poverty of the Victorian era, and we all cheered on the Lilly Whites when they won the FA cup. If the holocaust is their history it is for reasons that have nothing to do with me and mine though.

As for the colonials... I have relatives in Hong Kong, New Zealand and Australia. Some of them have slanty eyes, they are family but they aren't really 'my people'. Vicky don't surf and I have never thrown a shrimp on the barbie! I'd be far more at home in Stamford Hill so I am more likely to call them 'my people'.

I guess that what you want to know is do I consider Indians, Pakistanis, West Indians and Africans to be 'my people' because they were once part of the empire? Quite simply no, we do not have the same culture... unless they adopt British culture. A few years ago I was in a situation where I was meeting Nigerians immigrants who most definitely did not share my culture or values and treated me (and just about everybody) with animosity. At the same time, most days I would stop and chat with a black gentleman and a Turkish fella in the cafe... the latter was well on the way to becoming your typical cockney cheeky chappy and the latter had fully transitioned. They are my people... even though one of them was an Arsenal supporter.

Which reminds me, some of my Indian friends are very much into cricket, national and county. Sport seems to be an important step in integration.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2656

Post by Kirbmarc »

heddle wrote:
gurugeorge wrote: From my own digging around about "The Holocaust" I think the truth is far from clear, and quite frankly, what I think actually happened is that the "gas chambers used to genocide 6 million Jews" idea was initially a Soviet invention...
I hope this a Poe or satire that I'm not catching--because if you are serious then you're a fucking idiot.
I hope it's not serious too...but I'm not sure.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2657

Post by VickyCaramel »

Kirbmarc wrote:
gurugeorge wrote: The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).
I'm no Holocaust expert (Brive?) but this looks like complete bullshit, considering that the minutes of the Wannsee conference count up to 11 million Jews in Europe, of which 5 only in the USSR.
I looked at the Wannsee conference once and discovered some of the pertinent parts were extremely badly translated. Uncharitable at best, misleading at worst. Every time I go near the holocaust I think, "Oh shit, I don't want to get into this".

However, I did look at the numbers a long time ago. If you take the 6 million dead and add it to the estimated number of survivors, allow of population growth, then you compare it to Jewish agencies estimates at Jewish population (which we would assume are the best figures)you have to conclude that no Jews escaped the holocaust and the Nazis were importing Jews from non-occupied countries including the UK. But it all depends where you are getting your numbers from.

A can of worms.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2658

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
gurugeorge wrote: The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).
I'm no Holocaust expert (Brive?) but this looks like complete bullshit, considering that the minutes of the Wannsee conference count up to 11 million Jews in Europe, of which 5 only in the USSR.
I looked at the Wannsee conference once and discovered some of the pertinent parts were extremely badly translated. Uncharitable at best, misleading at worst. Every time I go near the holocaust I think, "Oh shit, I don't want to get into this".

However, I did look at the numbers a long time ago. If you take the 6 million dead and add it to the estimated number of survivors, allow of population growth, then you compare it to Jewish agencies estimates at Jewish population (which we would assume are the best figures)you have to conclude that no Jews escaped the holocaust and the Nazis were importing Jews from non-occupied countries including the UK. But it all depends where you are getting your numbers from.

A can of worms.
The Wannsee numbers seems to be based, for many nations, only on the numbers of practicing Jews, as it is probably the case for Jewish associations. We know that the Nazis considered a lot of people which had Jewish ancestry but weren't practicing Jews to be Jews nonetheless.

Sulman
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2659

Post by Sulman »

The numbers involved aren't the important thing; that there was systematic mass murder - of which there is incontrovertible evidence for - is really the takeaway.

I mean, when it comes to National Socialism, why stop at the Jewish question? They had plenty of programs of mass extermination, not least the zeal with which they killed handicapped children, the criteria for which widened during the The Third Reich sufficiently to cover pretty much any child they didn't really like.

I don't want to point any fingers but this kind of doubt-sniping is symptomatic of the crudest kind of denialers, and doesn't fool anyone.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2660

Post by Kirbmarc »

Sulman wrote: The numbers involved aren't the important thing; that there was systematic mass murder - of which there is incontrovertible evidence for - is really the takeaway.

I mean, when it comes to National Socialism, why stop at the Jewish question? They had plenty of programs of mass extermination, not least the zeal with which they killed handicapped children, the criteria for which widened during the The Third Reich sufficiently to cover pretty much any child they didn't really like.

I don't want to point any fingers but this kind of doubt-sniping is symptomatic of the crudest kind of denialers, and doesn't fool anyone.
The numbers DO matter, though, since the number that gurugeorge cites is incredibly smaller than what is supported by a cast number of studies. The precise number is unknown, but it's likely in the 5.5/6 millions ballpark.

Sulman
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2661

Post by Sulman »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sulman wrote: The numbers involved aren't the important thing; that there was systematic mass murder - of which there is incontrovertible evidence for - is really the takeaway.

I mean, when it comes to National Socialism, why stop at the Jewish question? They had plenty of programs of mass extermination, not least the zeal with which they killed handicapped children, the criteria for which widened during the The Third Reich sufficiently to cover pretty much any child they didn't really like.

I don't want to point any fingers but this kind of doubt-sniping is symptomatic of the crudest kind of denialers, and doesn't fool anyone.
The numbers DO matter, though, since the number that gurugeorge cites is incredibly smaller than what is supported by a cast number of studies. The precise number is unknown, but it's likely in the 5.5/6 millions ballpark.
As a matter of accuracy and historical record, definitely.

The point I'm not making very well is that chipping away at the record and suggesting parts are contested is also the same parlour trick used by any given denialist; i.e if fact 'A' is in doubt = The rest of me must be too.

DrokkIt
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2662

Post by DrokkIt »

deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.

The SJW thinking here is the conflation of "darker skin" with the the political identity "black". Tbh I think the initial reports used 'black' just as a reference or description, but it's since been taken to mean 'a contemporary african', which is stupid but there we have it.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2663

Post by Kirbmarc »

Sulman wrote: The numbers involved aren't the important thing; that there was systematic mass murder - of which there is incontrovertible evidence for - is really the takeaway.

I mean, when it comes to National Socialism, why stop at the Jewish question? They had plenty of programs of mass extermination, not least the zeal with which they killed handicapped children, the criteria for which widened during the The Third Reich sufficiently to cover pretty much any child they didn't really like.

I don't want to point any fingers but this kind of doubt-sniping is symptomatic of the crudest kind of denialers, and doesn't fool anyone.
Even the most conservative estimates which have any sort of credibility are around 4-4.5 million.

300,000 is a ridiculously low number.

There are plenty of sources here

The Gish Gallop which gurugeorge posted provides no evidence or sources, and it's a conspiracy theory. The burden of proof lies with him. Let him prove that the accepted number is false rather than just "raising doubts", especially on very flimsy basis.

I don't think that we should let the argument about the numbers slide hust because "the numbers don't matter"

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2664

Post by deLurch »

DrokkIt wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 am
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.
That is a conclusion that many are jumping on. But has that been tested? Britain has been inundated with wave after wave of invaders. For all we know, his clan was wiped out. If they have his full DNA profile it should be relatively easy to see how that story has played out. Especially with all of the people doing 23&Me type testing.

I don't care either way. I am just flat out curious.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2665

Post by SM1957 »

Kirbmarc wrote:
The Wannsee numbers seems to be based, for many nations, only on the numbers of practicing Jews, as it is probably the case for Jewish associations. We know that the Nazis considered a lot of people which had Jewish ancestry but weren't practicing Jews to be Jews nonetheless.
The Germans claimed that at the beginning of the war , there were 4 million Jews in Poland alone. There were very few Jews left in Poland at the end of the war.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2666

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 am
Breastfeeding support clinics .. :|

What is breastfeeding "support"? Like you hold up the dug? I'd volunteer.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2667

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote: and shit.... I just told her I thought it was a bit crazy that she could eat 3000 calories of cards the day she was diagnosed with diabetes and she said... well... I just got diagnosed! and I said ... it is very hard for me to watch you kill yourself..... and she said... well... get a divorce.
One must pick one's battles, but IMO this was a battle to pick.

You two might be considering couple's counseling, but I'm gonna suggest you on your own find a therapist who can serve as your 'interpreter' for the things your wife says & does, and who can suggest tools for engaging with her.

Guest_7111abac

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2668

Post by Guest_7111abac »

Sigh. I can just imagine all the tedious conversations I'll be having about Cheddar man now. People saying "you see, ha, now there's no reason to object to mass migration you horrible wacist".
Which would be true if any of my objections were actually based on colour of skin. I couldn't give a shit if every human on earth was white as white can be, I wouldn't want large numbers of them coming from poorer parts of the world to my relatively wealthy (but more importantly stable) part of the world where the data shows that they and their children and grandchildren are statistically more likely to remain net recipients from the state meaning there is less to go around for people whose families have been here since...Cheddar man.

CaughtUpLockedOut

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2669

Post by Sulman »

deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 am
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.
That is a conclusion that many are jumping on. But has that been tested? Britain has been inundated with wave after wave of invaders. For all we know, his clan was wiped out. If they have his full DNA profile it should be relatively easy to see how that story has played out. Especially with all of the people doing 23&Me type testing.

I don't care either way. I am just flat out curious.
SJWs are so stupid they think every civilisation in history looked like downtown NYC.

Guest_7111abac

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2670

Post by Guest_7111abac »

The article says 1 in 10 "white British" are direct descendants of Cheddar man.

CaughtUpLockedOut

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2671

Post by shoutinghorse »

dogen wrote:
deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.
I'm just waiting for it to come out that he was a Muslim.
Well this was found alongside the skeleton apparently. ;) ;)

https://i.imgur.com/KmndiJP.png

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2672

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

DrokkIt wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:56 am
Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Wensleydale Man had a creamy complexion, though.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2673

Post by shoutinghorse »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

What is breastfeeding "support"? Like you hold up the dug? I'd volunteer.
Bitty


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2674

Post by VickyCaramel »

Kirbmarc wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
gurugeorge wrote: The figure of "6 million" is also deeply suspicious in and of itself, since it was the stock figure for the estimate of the population of Jews in Europe through the early part of the 20th century (there are numerous newspaper articles from the 20s and 30s using that figure).
I'm no Holocaust expert (Brive?) but this looks like complete bullshit, considering that the minutes of the Wannsee conference count up to 11 million Jews in Europe, of which 5 only in the USSR.
I looked at the Wannsee conference once and discovered some of the pertinent parts were extremely badly translated. Uncharitable at best, misleading at worst. Every time I go near the holocaust I think, "Oh shit, I don't want to get into this".

However, I did look at the numbers a long time ago. If you take the 6 million dead and add it to the estimated number of survivors, allow of population growth, then you compare it to Jewish agencies estimates at Jewish population (which we would assume are the best figures)you have to conclude that no Jews escaped the holocaust and the Nazis were importing Jews from non-occupied countries including the UK. But it all depends where you are getting your numbers from.

A can of worms.
The Wannsee numbers seems to be based, for many nations, only on the numbers of practicing Jews, as it is probably the case for Jewish associations. We know that the Nazis considered a lot of people which had Jewish ancestry but weren't practicing Jews to be Jews nonetheless.
I dunno mate. The bottom line is that everytime I go near the holocaust I find that it is very strong on narrative and very light on evidence. If you are of an alt-right leaning you could say that this is because it is all began with Communist propaganda and the Americans took it and ran with it. Or you could say the holocaust history has largely been the domain of Jews, which have a culture which is very good at narrative. I have found similar 'issues' with many elements of Jewish related history from the Spanish Inquisition to the Russian pogroms. They are a people who work through story telling, which is probably why they are so well represented in Hollywood. It's not actually that much of a problem as the lore is actually part of the history.

I am in no doubt there are serious problems with holocaust history, although not as many as there were. The earliest books on the subject are full of absurd nonsense, and as I read them at a young age i was taken in by stories of steam chambers and electrified floors.... and shrunken heads (which does seem to suggest the American propaganda machine at least in part ran with it). And yet somebody here is likely to accuse me of being a Nazi for pointing this out.

What gurugeorge is referring to when he says "stock figure" is that there are many newspaper reports dating back to the early days of the first world war which report on American Jewish groups begging for aid for Europe's 6 million Jews. This became 6 million Jews are under threat in the war zone, to 6 million jews have already perished. This six million narrative was well established when they started begging for help for Russia's 6 million Jews in the 1920s. It could be that the number comes from the estimate of Jews in Europe which is widely reported as 6 million as late as 1945 (by the press) but it is just as likely that it has it's origins in gematria.

You might have evidence the the contrary, but from what I see, most methodologies start with the 6 million conclusion and work back from there but I don't really see it matters much unless you are defending it as a religious truth.

The 6 million is just a statistic, Gematria is far more interesting. And frankly to me that the undoubted fact that Jews have a different approach to history and truth shouldn't really detract from the whole thing. Unfortunately picking holes in the holocaust is a dangerous game.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2675

Post by Shatterface »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: based,
They found nothing of Cheshire man but his smile.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2676

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Taken outside Boston City Hall, a bauhaus monstrosity in the middle of a bauhaus wasteland of a 'plaza' surrounded by hideous bauhaus skyscrapers. Form Follows Function my ass. The quip went that city hall was the box that Faneuil Hall came in. Had 8 escalators heading down to an entire wing devoted to paying parking tickets. Which, if you've ever tried to park in Boston, you'd understand.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2677

Post by Shatterface »

I don't think it's coincidence that the people most likely to question the Holocaust are the first to believe Israelis kill Palestinian kids just for kicks.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2678

Post by Tigzy »

Guest_7111abac wrote: Sigh. I can just imagine all the tedious conversations I'll be having about Cheddar man now. People saying "you see, ha, now there's no reason to object to mass migration you horrible wacist".
Which would be true if any of my objections were actually based on colour of skin. I couldn't give a shit if every human on earth was white as white can be, I wouldn't want large numbers of them coming from poorer parts of the world to my relatively wealthy (but more importantly stable) part of the world where the data shows that they and their children and grandchildren are statistically more likely to remain net recipients from the state meaning there is less to go around for people whose families have been here since...Cheddar man.

CaughtUpLockedOut
If I get any Cheddar Man tedium thrown at me, I'm gonna go with the narrative that Cheddy's descendants clearly couldn't wait to become white, so our darky ancestors were obviously a bunch of coconut Uncle Toms.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2679

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Present-day Europeans owe on average 10% of their ancestry to Mesolithic hunters like Cheddar Man.
Not the same as saying anyone in the British Isles today is descended from the Cheddarii.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2680

Post by Shatterface »

Black or white, out cheesy ancestors had blue veins running right through.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/39/c7/2b/39c7 ... cheese.jpg

Note to self, don't Google 'cheese' and 'blue veins' again.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2681

Post by Tigzy »


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2682

Post by VickyCaramel »

Shatterface wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:08 am
I don't think it's coincidence that the people most likely to question the Holocaust are the first to believe Israelis kill Palestinian kids just for kicks.
I was probably the first to believe this because I used to volunteer for EI, and knew people who witnessed it happen. In fact the journalists would get shot at too. Probably not purely for kicks, no doubt intimidation plays a factor.

I would be interested to know if people who uncritically accept orthodox holocaust history are also the first to believe Palestinians attack school busses?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2683

Post by VickyCaramel »

DrokkIt wrote:
deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.

The SJW thinking here is the conflation of "darker skin" with the the political identity "black". Tbh I think the initial reports used 'black' just as a reference or description, but it's since been taken to mean 'a contemporary african', which is stupid but there we have it.
DrokkIt wrote:
deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Turns out Cheddar Man (just down the road from me, probably my ancestor) had dark skin.
Shame that this is being played as a win for racial politics, and not evolution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192
Since they have performed a DNA sequence, have they determined who his descendants are?

Also my additional question is if this DNA analysis is legit, or swayed by wishful PC thinking.
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.

The SJW thinking here is the conflation of "darker skin" with the the political identity "black". Tbh I think the initial reports used 'black' just as a reference or description, but it's since been taken to mean 'a contemporary african', which is stupid but there we have it.
We wuz kangz y'all. Rule Britannia & #BlacklivesMatter.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2684

Post by Shatterface »

VickyCaramel wrote: I would be interested to know if people who uncritically accept orthodox holocaust history are also the first to believe Palestinians attack school busses?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_ ... us_bombing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaar_H ... bus_attack

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2685

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Sunder wrote: Early hominids that still had dark fur had light skin underneath it as chimps still do, because fur and melanin kind of do the same job protecting from sunlight. Our skin darkened as we lost our fur then lightened again as we migrated north to less oppressively sun-drenched climes.

So yes, we're all from Africa. But deep down we are also all honkeys.
Polar Bears have dark skin under light colored hair, Black Bears have light skin under mostly black hair.0

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2686

Post by Guest_7111abac »

Faneuil Hall is real? Is it occupied by Supermutants? Does this mean my fantasies about banging the shit out of Curie atop Trinity tower with BOS scribes throwing singles at us as they watch from a hovering vertibird are more realistic than they were 5 minutes ago?

CaughtUpLockedOut

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2687

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sulman wrote: The numbers involved aren't the important thing; that there was systematic mass murder - of which there is incontrovertible evidence for - is really the takeaway.

I mean, when it comes to National Socialism, why stop at the Jewish question? They had plenty of programs of mass extermination, not least the zeal with which they killed handicapped children, the criteria for which widened during the The Third Reich sufficiently to cover pretty much any child they didn't really like.


I don't want to point any fingers but this kind of doubt-sniping is symptomatic of the crudest kind of denialers, and doesn't fool anyone.
The numbers DO matter, though, since the number that gurugeorge cites is incredibly smaller than what is supported by a cast number of studies. The precise number is unknown, but it's likely in the 5.5/6 millions ballpark.
We seem to have some of the "fake news" crowd here. 6 million is the lamestream media/jewish owned Jew York Times number so how can you trust it? Those left wingers just tell lies about good conservative types like Hitler to cover up all their crimes of stealing money from the rich.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2688

Post by VickyCaramel »

Shatterface wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote: I would be interested to know if people who uncritically accept orthodox holocaust history are also the first to believe Palestinians attack school busses?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_ ... us_bombing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaar_H ... bus_attack
Palestinians attack buses, because busses are how the Israelis shuttle back and forth between the illegal settlements. (Actually they are coaches). It's also how they move soldiers around. In fact, when you hear about suicide bombers attacking civilian busses, you generally find they are full of soldiers on their way back from a weekend pass. The same goes for attacks on cafes and clubs, generally they are patronized by young off-duty soldiers.... often young enough for the IDF to claim they are children.

Read between the lines of the Shaar HaNegev attack.
It's supposed to be a school bus, but it's a coach. It happens to be yellow and green but it is not a typical school bus which Israel does have.
Despite supposedly being a school bus it doesn't have any children on it. The 'child' who was killed is later described as a friend of the driver who was hitching a ride. This 16 year old was a student, but he was studying at a Yeshiva.... which is unlikely the image you had in mind.
If the Palestinians were deliberately planning and targeting school busses, they didn't do a very good job as the bus was empty and the only person who was killed shouldn't have even been on it.

You'll have a much harder time explaining away the hundreds of dead palestinian children and the shelling of schools and hospitals.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2689

Post by John D »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
John D wrote: and shit.... I just told her I thought it was a bit crazy that she could eat 3000 calories of cards the day she was diagnosed with diabetes and she said... well... I just got diagnosed! and I said ... it is very hard for me to watch you kill yourself..... and she said... well... get a divorce.
One must pick one's battles, but IMO this was a battle to pick.

You two might be considering couple's counseling, but I'm gonna suggest you on your own find a therapist who can serve as your 'interpreter' for the things your wife says & does, and who can suggest tools for engaging with her.
Yeah - I appreciate the advice. To a great extent I realize I need to be patient. It is a tricky place for me to be in. My wife and I have very different approaches for how we deal with life. If I was diagnosed with diabetes I would do everything I could to improve. That's just the way I am. But, she is very comfort seeking. I want to help her and give encouragement, etc.... but every time I even ask her if she wants to walk the dog with me she lashes out a bit. She doesn't say "oh... no thanks hunny." It's more like she hates that I reminded her she should walk more. She bitches at me like I am nagging her... and I really do not nag her. So.... as a result.... we never talk about the subject.

She lives in this kind of denial space and always has. I don't expect she will change. I think I am just destined to watch her slowly die, just like her sisters. So, I have three basic choices.

1) Let her run her life and patiently help out when invited.
2) Actively coach her to change herself and her health habits
3) Leave

I am pretty sure my only choice is number 1.

Maybe I need a "coach" as you suggest. What I am really feeling is that I am less like a husband and more like an elder-care nurse. It's just not what I had in mind for my middle 50s. I was hoping to tour Europe, etc., but she can barely walk a 1/4 mile without being completely knocked out. I am in about the best shape I have ever been in. We have diverged so much over the years.

She is 53 years old and has the following health problems: heart disease (four stents so far), high blood pressure, obesity, arthritis in one hip and both knees (getting cortisone shots), bouts of contact dermatitis, depression, tendinitis in her elbow and foot, high cholesterol. She has so many pills they barely fit into the pill sorter box. (I don't know them all.... Lyrica, Cymbalta, statin, aspirin, blood thinner, diabetes med, cholesterol med... and a couple more.

So, I think I just plow on the best I can. I know that I will never be able to push her very hard to change, as frustrating as that is. If I am even the least bit aggressive about something (like just walking the dog) she lashes out at me. Honestly, I think it is my role to just have as pleasant a time as possible with her as she basically poisons herself to a slow death. I just need to stay away from feeling resentful which is no small task sometimes.

Part of the problem is that I am slowly becoming less and less affectionate toward her. Her sickness is always present and always critical, but it is seldom fully discussed. She does nothing to change her behavior except take more drugs. It is hard to be affectionate because I see her as a sick patient that I have to care for. Lately I find myself hugging and kissing her like she is a sick child.

I tell myself that I am 100% dedicated to her and to our marriage, and this is usually how I live,.. but... her eating 3000 calories of carbs the day she was diagnosed with diabetes just freaked me out. It makes the reality of my life very clear. Too clear I think. It would be easier to live with all her illness if I thought that none of it was self induced. The fact that she willfully lets herself go is the hard part. She really doesn't care enough about herself and our marriage to really do anything about it. Sure, it's part of the depression. I get. But, at some point I wish she would love herself enough to improve her condition. Wishful thinking.

Life is tricky and sorry for venting. Just writing helps me think things through.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2690

Post by VickyCaramel »

free thoughtpolice wrote: We seem to have some of the "fake news" crowd here. 6 million is the lamestream media/jewish owned Jew York Times number so how can you trust it? Those left wingers just tell lies about good conservative types like Hitler to cover up all their crimes of stealing money from the rich.
Fuck, who is saying that? If it's not bad enough that people are being skeptical about the MSM and history (which NEVER has a political bias ever!) People are also being anti-semitic!?!?!?!

Somebody sound the alarm, time to punch some Nazis.

Point them out FT, point them out.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2691

Post by free thoughtpolice »


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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2692

Post by Shatterface »

VickyCaramel wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: We seem to have some of the "fake news" crowd here. 6 million is the lamestream media/jewish owned Jew York Times number so how can you trust it? Those left wingers just tell lies about good conservative types like Hitler to cover up all their crimes of stealing money from the rich.
Fuck, who is saying that? If it's not bad enough that people are being skeptical about the MSM and history (which NEVER has a political bias ever!) People are also being anti-semitic!?!?!?!

Somebody sound the alarm, time to punch some Nazis.

Point them out FT, point them out.
It's not 'skeptical' when the response to documented facts is 'the Jews control Hollywood' or 'the Russians did it'.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2693

Post by free thoughtpolice »

That lying bitch Hillary Clinton trying to destroy the Palestinian school system:

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2694

Post by VickyCaramel »

Shatterface wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: We seem to have some of the "fake news" crowd here. 6 million is the lamestream media/jewish owned Jew York Times number so how can you trust it? Those left wingers just tell lies about good conservative types like Hitler to cover up all their crimes of stealing money from the rich.
Fuck, who is saying that? If it's not bad enough that people are being skeptical about the MSM and history (which NEVER has a political bias ever!) People are also being anti-semitic!?!?!?!

Somebody sound the alarm, time to punch some Nazis.

Point them out FT, point them out.
It's not 'skeptical' when the response to documented facts is 'the Jews control Hollywood' or 'the Russians did it'.
You are going all Kathy Newman on me. What documented facts are you referring to and who is saying that?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2695

Post by DrokkIt »

deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 am
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.
That is a conclusion that many are jumping on. But has that been tested? Britain has been inundated with wave after wave of invaders. For all we know, his clan was wiped out. If they have his full DNA profile it should be relatively easy to see how that story has played out. Especially with all of the people doing 23&Me type testing.

I don't care either way. I am just flat out curious.
I've read that us modern-day limeys have 10% genetic heritage form Cheddar-boy's folk. No idea how substantial that figure is or what they have based it on. Certainly a lot of us have dark, curly hair and blue eyes haha.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2696

Post by VickyCaramel »

free thoughtpolice wrote: That lying bitch Hillary Clinton trying to destroy the Palestinian school system:
You are such an ignorant twat. If you think posting Hamas videos should mean something to me, maybe you should just avoid the subject of Palestine.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2697

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Vicky wrote:
Point them out FT, point them out

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2698

Post by Shatterface »

VickyCaramel wrote: Palestinians attack buses, because busses are how the Israelis shuttle back and forth between the illegal settlements. (Actually they are coaches). It's also how they move soldiers around. In fact, when you hear about suicide bombers attacking civilian busses, you generally find they are full of soldiers on their way back from a weekend pass. The same goes for attacks on cafes and clubs, generally they are patronized by young off-duty soldiers.... often young enough for the IDF to claim they are children.

Read between the lines of the Shaar HaNegev attack.
It's supposed to be a school bus, but it's a coach. It happens to be yellow and green but it is not a typical school bus which Israel does have.
Despite supposedly being a school bus it doesn't have any children on it. The 'child' who was killed is later described as a friend of the driver who was hitching a ride. This 16 year old was a student, but he was studying at a Yeshiva.... which is unlikely the image you had in mind.
If the Palestinians were deliberately planning and targeting school busses, they didn't do a very good job as the bus was empty and the only person who was killed shouldn't have even been on it.

You'll have a much harder time explaining away the hundreds of dead palestinian children and the shelling of schools and hospitals.
Td: dr. It's not a school bus it's a coach I mean a troop carrier that's the same colour as a school bus and Israelis don't use school buses anyway and there's no kids on board except the 16 year old and isn't a school kid even if he is a kid of school age and he was a friend of the driver and he should have been on the bus which was empty anyway

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2699

Post by free thoughtpolice »

DrokkIt wrote:
deLurch wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 am
Apparently his descendants are modern white british folks -i.e. this population of early brits developed lighter skin over time, and also bred with other settlers and invaders over 10,000 years.
That is a conclusion that many are jumping on. But has that been tested? Britain has been inundated with wave after wave of invaders. For all we know, his clan was wiped out. If they have his full DNA profile it should be relatively easy to see how that story has played out. Especially with all of the people doing 23&Me type testing.

I don't care either way. I am just flat out curious.
I've read that us modern-day limeys have 10% genetic heritage form Cheddar-boy's folk. No idea how substantial that figure is or what they have based it on. Certainly a lot of us have dark, curly hair and blue eyes haha.
I have done some research (Daily Mail if you must know) that shows that a certain unnamed Englishwoman here may have had a grandmother that was raped by a bigfoot.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#2700

Post by Jack Wooster »

Richard Herring, the comedian, who grew up in Cheddar claims that tests done in the seventies showed his geography teacher was a decendant of Cheddar Man.

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