Indeed. But somewhat apropos of the issue of immigration, Italy, & Islam:Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 amHyperbole. All that is asked is to respect a list of shared rules without "muh culture" or "muh religion" exceptions, learn the local langauge(s) (and this is where people who already know the language get a head-start), and to become involved in the local life (making friends who can vouch for you, being part of local groups, participate in local politics, all in a productive fashion) if you want to become a citizen. Equal rules and equal standards for all. Honkey Americans who have had permanent residence in Switzerland for 40 years but haven't even bothered to learn the names of the villages which surround their place of residence get rejected, too.Brive1987 wrote: ↑ There isn’t a simple single solution to rebuilding a culturally intact state.
However immigration, integration and economic strength aren’t exclusive concepts. Why Switzerland is one of Europe’s strongest ethnostates despite matching Australia for 30% foreign born population. Wow. All they did was make sure the vast majority of migrants were culturally aligned and then they apparently subject them to North Korea level integration sessions.
Nice to see some pushback from the Christian cohort, arguably a credible and necessary bulwark against the depredations of Islam. Though the archbishop in question may not be particularly credible or representative.
Indeed. Though still looks a tad "illiberal" ... ;-)Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 amAnd nobody accused Switzerland of being a fascist ethnostate for that reason. Well, nobody influential at least. So what's stopping Australia from changing its immigration rules? You don't even have any deals with the EU.Brive1987 wrote: ↑ Switzerland has also led the game narrowly voting in a couple of nifty initiatives.
In February 2014, the federal popular initiative "against mass immigration" was accepted. The referendum aimed to reduce immigration through quotas and limits the freedom of movement between Switzerland and the European Union.
In November 2010, the people's initiative for the deportation of criminal foreigners was adopted. Following the approval of the proposal, foreigners convicted of certain offenses or who were paid illegally social insurance benefits or social assistance lose the right of residence and are expelled from Switzerland.
Indeed, although I'm not sure about the last bit there: some cultures are clearly better than others.Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 am
"Equal rules for everyone with no exceptions" is the gold standard you should be promoting. The problem with "multiculturalism", loosely defined, is that it allows room for special concessions, exceptions, loopholes, etc. which undermine equality before the law. One example of this are "hate speech" laws, which are a loophole that (for example) muslim theocrats use to stifle criticism of islam. Another example is the idea that there's "no such thing as Australian/Swiss/Host Country culture" but that the cultures of immigrants are real and important. That's a double standard: either no culture is important or all cultures are. And so on, and so forth.
Indeed; well said - particularly "don't just chicken out for fear of being called a bigot" ... ;-)Kirbmarc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 amYou don't need an "ethnostate". You need to stop feeling guilty about enforcing the same rules for everyone. Another example, one that is very relevant to the nature of the Pit as a secularist/atheist board: secular groups should treat islam like they treat Christianity, with the same amount of criticism and mockery, instead of leaving islam alone because "it's the religion of brown people" (which isn't even true) or because "everyone on the Christian right already bashes muslims" (so what? offer better criticism, don't just chicken out for fear of being called a bigot).
Only IF the idea of equal rules for everyone is firmly ingrained in society you can face concrete issues about poverty, inequality of legal representation, police misconduct, lack of healthcare, etc. which are real and create practical inequalities which need to be addressed. But again, the focus should be on equal rights AND equal duties, with no catering to "offended" people and no special loopholes.