Barbie's Boyfriend wrote:Steersman wrote:Barbie's Boyfriend wrote:Steerswad, you check the ID of every young woman you defile for money ???
LoL. No - Barbie's Dildo - I don't. You do so for every woman you "defile" for free?
But you might consider that your choice of words and phrases - "defile" and "woman who degrade themselves by having sex with you for $$$" - suggests a problematic bias. Or a problematic psychological complex that you might want to get a "professional" - of one sort or another - to help you with.
TRIGGER WARNING: I'm gonna argue with Steerswad about his perversions.
"perversions" is your "judgement" - though a rather narrow-minded one at that, and not a particularly credible one.
Barbie's Boyfriend wrote:No, I have NEVER had illegal sex with an underage women. EVER.
Who said anything about "underage women"? You may wish to be a little more careful about your definitions and consistency, particularly if you wish to "argue" with me ....
Barbie's Boyfriend wrote:Yes, the guy who has normal relationships with women needs help, and the guy who not only has to pay women to be with him, but doesn't understand why you don't talk about certain things in public is perfectly fine. Nobody cares what Dick Carrier does to women's faces. But its kinda/sorta funny/creepy that he not only talks about it in polite company, but doesn't understand why his feminist friends might have a problem with it.
Same goes for you talking about having sex with prostitutes. Nobody cares what freakery you are into. But nobody wants to hear about it, and nobody wants to hear you try and pass it off as normal.
Now I suppose its time for one of your sycophants to call my eighty year old mother a whore
"nobody wants to hear about it" - you're talking for the whole Pit now? Must have missed the election of you as the Pit representative on the topic ....
As for me supposedly "talking about having sex with prostitutes", maybe you would care to quote me doing that? Don't think I've ever done so - only indicated that I've availed myself of their services which is a rather different kettle of fish from the gory details you imply, and defended their rights to offer those services which is, again, a different kettle of fish.
But, for an instance of the latter - which seems to have precipitated you getting your knickers in a twist, making with the spurious insults which produced some collateral damage, and my "sycophants" consequently rising in my defense - there's this from a
comment of mine about a month ago:
Steersman wrote:But, somewhat parenthetically, one might also argue that it's not just Muslim culture that thinks "whores are worthless". Seems far too many in Western "culture" look down their noses at "whores" - who are apparently 7 more times likely to be assaulted and murdered than the next most dangerous profession (taxi drivers) - and on the entire profession of prostitution itself which gets a far worse press than it deserves ...
Kind of get the impression, particularly from your "defiled" and
"degraded" comments, that you too are of the opinion, along with too many in Muslim "culture" and even in that of the West, that "whores are worthless". Y'all are welcome to those opinions - more or less - but you might consider that they're really not worth diddly-squat, particularly in the eyes of a large percentage of both prostitutes and their clients, and even of the general public. Seems you're not much able or willing to read even 8 of my paragraphs in support of my arguments,
much less 87 or 870, but you might consider these perspectives on the topic that provide more than a little justification for them:
Confessions of a Former SWERF
Ok, so maybe I wasn’t a full on SWERF, like I didn’t want to take rights away from sex workers but I did think that sex work was exploitative and a direct result of centuries of patriarchy. I thought that anyone who tried to purchase sex from another person should be criminalised, because I naively believed that that would end demand. I also thought that everyone working in the industry was there under duress. And all of these assumptions were based on complete and utter ignorance. ....
But aside from that friend — and I would say she was a victim of sexual assault and coercion, not a sex worker — every other woman I know who is a sex worker has chosen their line of work.
For some women the choice is financial. Other women just fucking (excuse the pun) love it. Some women I know find sex work to be hugely fulfilling and rewarding and enjoyable work. I know! Amazing isn’t it? I was shocked too when I first realised that not everyone is like me! (I’m being sarky of course but mostly towards my former self).
Meeting and listening to sex workers and former sex workers opened my eyes about why people work at sex work, and how those people feel about it, but what about patriarchy? How to reconcile the selling of the female body following centuries of gendered degradation, sexualisation and exploitation? ....
Sex workers speak.
Who listens?
The sex industries around the world are associated with serious forms of marginalisation, violence, exploitation, and even forced labour. Media, research, and fiction tell stories of sex workers being abused, exploited, and trafficked. They do it so often that we become almost indifferent to it, as almost always happens in front of horror. ....
This volume addresses the violence, exploitation, abuse, and trafficking present in the sex industries, but it does so from the perspective of sex workers themselves. These are the women, men, and transgender people who are directly touched by the abuse, exploitation, and trafficking under discussion, and they are the people who actively and collectively resist all forms of violence against them. .....
All these approaches to prostitution have spread across the world, are still in place to various extents, and are discussed and criticised by sex workers’ organisations. In contrast to these approaches, the sex workers’ movement, ever since its early political documents, has largely supported ‘decriminalisation’. New Zealand is currently experimenting with this, and the concept made mainstream headlines in 2015 thanks to the so-called ‘Amnesty Resolution’ supporting it. ....
You might listen to their voices instead of to your own bigotry.
Should Prostitution Be a Crime?
A growing movement of sex workers and activists is making the decriminalization of sex work a feminist issue.
Last November, Meg Muñoz went to Los Angeles to speak at the annual West Coast conference of Amnesty International. She was nervous. Three months earlier, at a meeting attended by about 500 delegates from 80 countries, Amnesty voted to adopt a proposal in favor of the “full decriminalization of consensual sex work,” sparking a storm of controversy. Members of the human rights group in Norway and Sweden resigned en masse, saying the organization’s goal should be to end demand for prostitution, not condone it. ....
Muñoz was in the middle of a pitched battle over the terms, and even the meaning, of sex work. In the United States and around the globe, many sex workers (the term activists prefer to “prostitute”) are trying to change how they are perceived and policed. They are fighting the legal status quo, social mores and also mainstream feminism, which has typically focused on saving women from the sex trade rather than supporting sex workers who demand greater rights. ....
It’s a pragmatic argument. But the sex-workers’ movement also hinges on an ideological conviction — the belief that the criminal law should not be used here as an instrument of punishment or shame,
because sex work isn’t inherently immoral or demeaning. It can even be authentically feminist. “Once you’ve done it, you always know: When it comes down to it, I have everything I need to survive,” says Anna Saini, a former sex worker who is now a sex-worker activist and law student living in Brooklyn. “That’s powerful.” This view poses a deep challenge to traditional Western feminism, which treats the commercial sex industry as an ugly source of sexual inequality.
Looking down your nose at prostitutes, and seeing their "profession" as "degrading" really doesn't help, and really just compounds the problems.
A personal choice
The internet is making the buying and selling of sex easier and safer. Governments should stop trying to ban it
This newspaper [The Economist] has never found it plausible that all prostitutes are victims. That fiction is becoming harder to sustain as much of the buying and selling of sex moves online. Personal websites mean prostitutes can market themselves and build their brands. Review sites bring trustworthy customer feedback to the commercial-sex trade for the first time. The shift makes it look more and more like a normal service industry. ....
The failure of prohibition is pushing governments across the rich world to try a new tack: criminalising the purchase of sex instead of its sale. Sweden was first, in 1999, followed by Norway, Iceland and France; Canada is rewriting its laws along similar lines. The European Parliament wants the “Swedish model” to be adopted right across the EU. Campaigners in America are calling for the same approach.
Sex sells, and always will
This new consensus is misguided, as a matter of both principle and practice. Banning the purchase of sex is as illiberal as banning its sale. Criminalisation of clients perpetuates the idea of all prostitutes as victims forced into the trade. Some certainly are—by violent partners, people-traffickers or drug addiction. But there are already harsh laws against assault and trafficking. Addicts need treatment, not a jail sentence for their clients. ....
Prostitution is moving online whether governments like it or not. If they try to get in the way of the shift they will do harm. Indeed, the unrealistic goal of ending the sex trade distracts the authorities from the genuine horrors of modern-day slavery (which many activists conflate with illegal immigration for the aim of selling sex) and child prostitution (better described as money changing hands to facilitate the rape of a child). Governments should focus on deterring and punishing such crimes—and leave consenting adults who wish to buy and sell sex to do so safely and privately online.
Is there a moral case against prostitution?
This week’s hearings on the government’s proposed new prostitution law represent a priceless opportunity to bash the Harper government for its clumsy, moralistic, ineffective and possibly unconstitutional attempt to suppress the world’s oldest profession. Opposition politicians are gleefully on the attack, and so are a fair number in the news media. ....
Many sassy young progressive commentators (including women) assume that prostitution is like marijuana – that the moral issues are as outdated as hoop skirts, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an uptight reactionary old prude. After all, women should have a right to do whatever they want with their own bodies, and what happens between two consenting adults is nobody else’s business. Prostitutes are no different from piano teachers, so get over it! ....
Feminists themselves are deeply split on prostitution, as are those who’ve worked in the sex trade. Many of them also believe there is a moral case against it. As one former sex-trade worker told the CBC this week, “No woman wakes up at 18 years of age … and says, ‘Mommy, I would like to serve 10 or 15 men a day for the rest of my life.’ ”
A strong majority of Canadians also disapprove of prostitution. But they are divided on whether it should be legal – and the gender gap is impressive. A recent Angus Reid poll found that 56 per cent of men think it should be legal, but 55 per cent of women think it should be outlawed. Asked about the new bill, 47 per cent said they oppose it, against 35 per cent in favour. ....
Apart from the largely questionable stereotype of "serve 10 or 15 men a day", still quite a good article for at least broaching the question of "a moral case against prostitution". You may wish to try making one yourself instead of relying on empty, unevidenced, and not particularly commendable or salutary "opinion" - being charitable.