Give Me a Urinal or Give Me Death!

[Spike13]

How in the world did we overlook this arel cunt for so long?

Looks like a rich source of mockery and yucks. You can almost smell the smug self satisfaction.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

"A professor struggles to react after reading a paper that sounds hauntingly like what the person who sexually assaulted her would say"

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2 ... lass-essay

[MarcusAu]

I was too subtle. The joke was that in Werleman's case we have room to doubt he wrote the book published under his name.

Yes I missed what you were getting at. .

In this case at least, Werleman is fairly safe in claiming all credit for himself - as anyone else would have to be crazy to want to be associated with it in any way.

[Kirbmarc]

"A professor struggles to react after reading a paper that sounds hauntingly like what the person who sexually assaulted her would say"

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2 ... lass-essay

It was the middle of the semester, and we were covering rape culture. As any feminist instructor who has ever taught about rape culture probably knows, covering this topic is challenging for a multitude of reasons. Sometimes we encounter students who realize that they have been raped who come to office hours looking for resources. Other times, students learn that they have actually perpetrated rape and struggle to reconcile that with their images of themselves as “good people” and “not one of those (usually) guys.”

How can someone rape or be raped and not realize what happened if they were conscious? Unless you redefine rape from "non-consensual sex" to "all sex which isn't 100% Crystal Clear Consent Approved", that is.

When I encountered a paper that began with this question in my gender course, I hoped that the student would take the paper in that direction.
He started by citing an example of a case he read in the news media in which a woman on a college campus raped a man and the institution responded poorly. However, I first felt a twinge in my spine when I looked up the source of his story and traced it back to a men’s rights advocacy group. “OK,” I thought to myself, “students use questionable sources all the time, often because they might not have the skills to distinguish objective journalism from something like an MRA group. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here and make a note of it for the next paper.”
Unfortunately, his argument quickly devolved into a tirade claiming -- since he presented just one case wherein a woman raped a man -- that feminism is pointless and women are complaining too much about gender inequality. He wrote that men and women experience rape culture in exactly the same way, and claimed talking about gender inequality was just an effort to make men look bad. He said that women brought these things upon themselves by making people, and specifically men, angry and annoyed via conversations about feminism and rape culture. He did not even feign a presentation of data to back up his argument after the initial example; rather, he simply ranted against feminism, women and open discussions about the sexual violence women regularly experience.

I'd love to read the actual paper. Also shouldn't it matter whether the story was real or not, and not from which source the story was taken? Furthermore since people with a clear ideological background are prone to interpret arguments according to their ideology I'm not sure we can trust the account of the arguments in the paper.

As I went over his paper, I realized that I was reading a paper that sounded word for word like something the man who raped me would say. And not only did this sound like something my rapist would say, this student fit the same demographic profile as him: white, college male, between the ages of 18 and 22.

Why should this matter? Is the professor trying to imply that the student's demographic profile, along with a difference in ideas, is an indicator of him being more likely to be rapist? Imagine a professor who had been mugged at gun point who graded a paper on providing explanations for the socio-economic dynamics of mugging, even in a crude manner, and wrote "And not only did this sound like something my mugger would say, this student fit the same demographic profile as him: black, male, between the ages of 18 and 22". Yeah, that would have shown a little bit of prejudice in the professor.

Also, saying "my rapist" is never not creepy.

None of my training or experience prepared me for something like this, not even advice from the few feminist scholars I have had the pleasure of knowing. I was in a position where I had to take this student’s words seriously, evaluate their merit and provide a percentile score based on how well I thought they fit the parameters of the assignment.
“Zero! You get a fucking zero!” I literally screamed at my computer screen. I decided that I was not ready to return to grading papers yet, so I got up and went for another walk.

Is this a Poe? Because it really sounds like one.

Luckily in the comments some people are talking some sense, even from a SJW perspective.

If reading a paper with an opinion she didn't like was really enough to cause psychological issues in the professor shouldn't she simply not teach a subject which causes her so much psychological pain? Or get some therapy to deal with her issues instead of fishing for cheap sympathy and outrage over the internet?

[Really?]

...

Is this a Poe? Because it really sounds like one.

Luckily in the comments some people are talking some sense, even from a SJW perspective.

If reading a paper with an opinion she didn't like was really enough to cause psychological issues in the professor shouldn't she simply not teach a subject which causes her so much psychological pain? Or get some therapy to deal with her issues instead of fishing for cheap sympathy and outrage over the internet?

That's so unfair to her. She shouldn't be deterred from researching and teaching in the field of Rape Studies just because the mention of rape makes her lose her shit.

[shoutinghorse]

London .. In constant threat of terrorist attack, Black street gang knife crime out of control, stabbing murders commonplace, acid attacks in unprecedented rise in recent months, (a crime previously unheard of in the UK) No convictions in 30 years for FGM, Eastern European pickpocket gangs on the rise.

But the most important area in fighting crime for London mayor Saddiq Khan ?

http://i.imgur.com/GJShHOV.png

[Matt Cavanaugh]

How in the world did we overlook this arel cunt for so long?

Looks like a rich source of mockery and yucks. You can almost smell the smug self satisfaction.

What, you don't waste inordinate amounts of time arguing with SJW fucktards at Patheos?

Dan Arel is such a complete pussy. A blowhard; an armchair Sandinista. His beloved Bernie Revolution went nowhere, so now he feels compelled to man the barricades of the Paris Commune work as a union activist. That, and spew a lot of bravado about punching nazis and street fighting. He's a wimpy, pasty-skinned, lard-assed blogger who'd get laid flat if he ever came out from behind the safety of his keyboard.

[Really?]

This is our future.

[youtube][/youtube]

[jet_lagg]

People seem to have a difficult time separating the right to free speech from the content of said speech when people actually start talking.

I wonder how they would defend themselves if someone took issue something they said and told them to shut up. What is the principle under which they would give themselves the right to speak but deny the same right to others?

I'm sure it has something to do with cis white males traditionally having a monopoly on power - but such arguments ring hollow to me.

Implying they have or care about having principles...

[Spike13]

"A professor struggles to react after reading a paper that sounds hauntingly like what the person who sexually assaulted her would say"

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2 ... lass-essay

Matt-"this person should not be teaching"

That was you wasn't it?...11 up votes 0 down

[Spike13]

This is our future.

[youtube][/youtube]

Well... we'll be seeing more of this in the future, but, if you look at the crowd, the only obvious freak was the pissy SJW.

( and no lirkers, I do not label x because x claimed to be female, while obviously presenting as male, but because x is dressed/looks like a fucking freak. Clown pants, orange fright wig hair...

[Kirbmarc]

People seem to have a difficult time separating the right to free speech from the content of said speech when people actually start talking.

I wonder how they would defend themselves if someone took issue something they said and told them to shut up. What is the principle under which they would give themselves the right to speak but deny the same right to others?

I'm sure it has something to do with cis white males traditionally having a monopoly on power - but such arguments ring hollow to me.

Implying they have or care about having principles...

As Aratina once wrote "morality is based on ideology". So no, they don't have principles, they have aims, and anything goes to get to their aims. Their main aim is to establish a society based on retribution for past crimes (some real, some not). They're aiming for Absolute Justice, which is boundless and has no principles, just like "the justice of the gods". Gods can commit murder, genocide, rape, etc. and still be Just because of their aims of privileging and defending the "chosen people". Similarly SJWs can wreck liberal-democratic ideas and still be Just because of their aims of privileging and defending the "oppressed people".

[Matt Cavanaugh]

"A professor struggles to react after reading a paper that sounds hauntingly like what the person who sexually assaulted her would say"

https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2 ... lass-essay

Matt-"this person should not be teaching"

That was you wasn't it?...11 up votes 0 down

Not me.

[free thoughtpolice]

Kirbmarc wrote:

If reading a paper with an opinion she didn't like was really enough to cause psychological issues in the professor shouldn't she simply not teach a subject which causes her so much psychological pain? Or get some therapy to deal with her issues instead of fishing for cheap sympathy and outrage over the internet?

So you want to victim blame her and tell her not to enter her chosen field because of something someone did to her?
Should she be teaching a STEM subject instead, fields that are rife with harassers and rapists to the point where women won't even study in them?
You sound just like her rapist. :(

[Cnutella]

Maybe I got :nin: on this months ago - if not, then season two of the Hugo Schwyzer show is in full swing. Hugo has become bored with silent contrition and is now a regular on both Twitter (@mgcotax) and Medium, where he posts pieces under the #feminism tag.

I once read that Borderline Personality Disorder can be co-morbid with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and wondered to myself what sort of a hellacious nightmare that would look like in real life. Then HS claimed that them as his diagnosis during his last meltdown and it did make sense. Hugo is a massive liar, but it certainly explained quite a lot about his erratic lurching between extravagant displays of self-abasement and obvious bragging. And also why he can't stay out of the limelight, completely returning to form with stories like:

I Was Wrong to Condemn Age-Disparate Relationships

And...

Why I Swore Off Sleeping With Students for 10 Years, and Why I Went Back

Comments are predictably ragey, so Hugo is once again getting his needs met.

He also sprang to the defense of Jamie Kilstein to Twitter, based on the vague unevidenced allegations against him. I don't disagree with HS there but I imagine that the beleaguered Kilstein was not exactly thrilled by this unexpected torpedo of solidarity.

[Spike13]

The fishing for cheap sympathy and outrage on the internet is what it's all about with these folks isn't it?

[Tigzy]

As Aratina once wrote "morality is based on ideology". So no, they don't have principles, they have aims, and anything goes to get to their aims. Their main aim is to establish a society based on retribution for past crimes (some real, some not). They're aiming for Absolute Justice, which is boundless and has no principles, just like "the justice of the gods".

I'm not sure it is so boundless. Something tells me they won't be seeking redress for, say, the Europeans who suffered under the islamic slave trade, or the English who were oppressed under Norman rule.

Then again, you say it's a form of Absolute Justice which has no principles, so...yeah.

[free thoughtpolice]

Cnutella wrote:

Comments are predictably ragey, so Hugo is once again getting his needs met.

I like this one, kind of like slam poetry:

demonvomit trashfire. writhing pile of self-pitying tarjerky. junkyard full of white males tears.

[Kirbmarc]

As Aratina once wrote "morality is based on ideology". So no, they don't have principles, they have aims, and anything goes to get to their aims. Their main aim is to establish a society based on retribution for past crimes (some real, some not). They're aiming for Absolute Justice, which is boundless and has no principles, just like "the justice of the gods".

I'm not sure it is so boundless. Something tells me they won't be seeking redress for, say, the Europeans who suffered under the islamic slave trade, or the English who were oppressed under Norman rule.

Then again, you say it's a form of Absolute Justice which has no principles, so...yeah.

Allah doesn't care about the oppression of muslims over non-muslims. Only the True Muslims Oppressed People have a right to Absolute Justice. The kaffir shitlords can burn in hell cry their cis white male tears.

[pro-boxing-fan]

So Marine Le Pen is stepping down as leader of FN. Of course she's still running for president but still a weird twist.

What are the implications is still unclear to me. Phil, id be happy to have your insight on this.

[free thoughtpolice]

Alex Jones had 150 women by age 16.
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/327328/ ... en-age-16/

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Bicycle lock guy is now being investigated by police, and the dude whose head he smashed in is filing charges. Also turns out he'd recently placed and order on amazon for 14 bicycle locks.

4chan has called their outing of him "what happens when you weaponize autism".

[Aneris]

The curious case of Lauren Southern the alt-righter

• never claimed to be alt-right.
• No mention about it on her wiki.
• rational wiki does not even try to make the claim directly.
• has no video about the alt-right on her youtube channel.
• is invited to the "what went wrong with the alt-right" Spike podcast not as an insider but as someone who "dealt with them" in the past because she sympathize for some of their views like anti-sjw, anti-feminist, cultural marxism and to an extend nationalism (minus the white part).
• Gave an hour long interview to Dave Rubin without talking about it.
• changed her mind about some alt-righters making shitpost jew jokes only ironically following a Twitter argument with Cathy Young.
• alt-righters does not seem to consider her alt-right even if most like her.
• was a reporter for Ezra Levant right wing Rebel Media who in my mind flirted with them at times on social media but they're not alt-right at all. They published videos calling them idiots and being the same as SJW when it comes to identity politics.

There must be someone out there with a tiny shred a credibility in the public eye who clearly say that Lauren is alt-right?

Yes! Vice, media matters and SPLC. Worth mentioning: HuffPo said she's a alt-right heroine but does not make any claim about her being one of them.

I don't know what “her wiki” means, but she is categorized, correctly, as Alt Right on the Wikipedia. But I guess that also doesn't count, like all the other sources you don't like. Her tweets and statements she makes herself are ignored, general ideas about what words mean don't apply, and nothing so far comes even close to even consider the possibility. Got it.

So far you have someone who:

1. Says Alt Right things, or poses with racist slogans on Twitter.
2. Parties with Alt Righters, like Cernovich.
3. Worked for alternative right media, in the Alt Right scene.
4. Writes books with ideas close that of the identitarian movement.
5. Is commonly associated with the Alt Right, including on Wikipedia.
6. Was kicked out of the Libertarian party, and libertarian ideas play no important role in her campaigning, or are arguably at odds with her views (traditional family, no freedom to believe or worship what you want, closed borders etc).

What could change your mind to at least consider it? As Kirbmarc, and Service Dod made clear: nothing. The denialist will drive up the costs, demand more and more evidence, which must fit ever more specific criteria — however none that they apply to their position (e.g. for calling someone Regressive). Importantly, the new evidence is not even acknowleged, or quickly dismissed.

Meanwhile, you can look up the “Identitarian Movement”, which is the fancy term for Alt Right movement internationally.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

The fishing for cheap sympathy and outrage on the internet is what it's all about with these folks isn't it?

We're actually in an upward oscillation of cheap sympathy and outrage, Mr. Chicken Little.

[MarcusAu]

Aneris,

I'm not sure that Alt-Right has a specific meaning anymore - it was coined to group together those that opposed the traditional right - ie the neocons or if you like cuckservatives. I think it was first used by Richard Spencer (or at least popularised by him) - so it has always had a strong streak of pro-whiteness (or anti-everyone else).

As the term now seems to be dissolving at the edges (and the group was never that strong a coalition to begin with) - it may be less controversial to classify Southern et al as Right Wing or Conservative or Millennial Conservative (Milicon) - though these terms do avoid the same degree of negative connotation (If that is how you want to describe them).

[Really?]

The curious case of Lauren Southern the alt-righter

• never claimed to be alt-right.
• No mention about it on her wiki.
• rational wiki does not even try to make the claim directly.
• has no video about the alt-right on her youtube channel.
• is invited to the "what went wrong with the alt-right" Spike podcast not as an insider but as someone who "dealt with them" in the past because she sympathize for some of their views like anti-sjw, anti-feminist, cultural marxism and to an extend nationalism (minus the white part).
• Gave an hour long interview to Dave Rubin without talking about it.
• changed her mind about some alt-righters making shitpost jew jokes only ironically following a Twitter argument with Cathy Young.
• alt-righters does not seem to consider her alt-right even if most like her.
• was a reporter for Ezra Levant right wing Rebel Media who in my mind flirted with them at times on social media but they're not alt-right at all. They published videos calling them idiots and being the same as SJW when it comes to identity politics.

There must be someone out there with a tiny shred a credibility in the public eye who clearly say that Lauren is alt-right?

Yes! Vice, media matters and SPLC. Worth mentioning: HuffPo said she's a alt-right heroine but does not make any claim about her being one of them.

I don't know what “her wiki” means, but she is categorized, correctly, as Alt Right on the Wikipedia. But I guess that also doesn't count, like all the other sources you don't like. Her tweets and statements she makes herself are ignored, general ideas about what words mean don't apply, and nothing so far comes even close to even consider the possibility. Got it.

So far you have someone who:

1. Says Alt Right things, or poses with racist slogans on Twitter.
2. Parties with Alt Righters, like Cernovich.
3. Worked for alternative right media, in the Alt Right scene.
4. Writes books with ideas close that of the identitarian movement.
5. Is commonly associated with the Alt Right, including on Wikipedia.
6. Was kicked out of the Libertarian party, and libertarian ideas play no important role in her campaigning, or are arguably at odds with her views (traditional family, no freedom to believe or worship what you want, closed borders etc).

What could change your mind to at least consider it? As Kirbmarc, and Service Dod made clear: nothing. The denialist will drive up the costs, demand more and more evidence, which must fit ever more specific criteria — however none that they apply to their position (e.g. for calling someone Regressive). Importantly, the new evidence is not even acknowleged, or quickly dismissed.

Meanwhile, you can look up the “Identitarian Movement”, which is the fancy term for Alt Right movement internationally.

I guess that FTB and the Orbiteers are right. We're all rape apologists because we all post on the Slymepit, which is a haven for rapists. You can even google it.

"Rape apologist" has a clearly defined definition, just look it up on Shakesville.

On the Slymepit, you will find denial of rape culture. Victim blaming. Triggering images. Denial of PTSD. Defense of rapists like Paul Nungesser.

It couldn't possibly be that recently coined terms like "Alt-Right" are defined in the eye of the beholder and are used to level ad hominems as a replacement for real arguments.

I'll have more to say later, but there's fourteen new and near-identical articles about how Gamergate is a terrorist front group dedicated solely to harassing women.

[Lsuoma]

Fan, meet incoming shit. :shock:

[youtube][/youtube]

Just listening to this now, and I started to get worried when Murray mentioned a test of being able to rotate a 3-dimensional object in ones mind: is it safe to proceed, or does he go all Steerzoid?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

So Marine Le Pen is stepping down as leader of FN. Of course she's still running for president but still a weird twist.

What are the implications is still unclear to me. Phil, id be happy to have your insight on this.

You won't, sorry to say. I'm watching all this fiasco from my Happy Place where I don't think about it much.

[Guest_65f08d86]

Bicycle lock guy is now being investigated by police, and the dude whose head he smashed in is filing charges. Also turns out he'd recently placed and order on amazon for 14 bicycle locks.

4chan has called their outing of him "what happens when you weaponize autism".

Do you have a link for that? The only thing from any sort of news site that google is showing from the past 24 hours is from here:

goldengatexpress org/2017/04/23/berkeley-police-investigate-alumnus-connection-to-rally-assault/

Clanton began teaching at DVC in 2015 but is not working this semester, according to Timothy Leong, Contra Costa Community College District l director of communications and community relations.

According to The Inquirer, Clanton has shut down his social media.

“We are working with Berkeley Police Department, who is the lead on the investigation of the recent altercations that occurred in their city,” Leong said.

But that's not an authoritative statement of what Berkeley PD are doing, and Berkeley PD seems up to the ears in antifa apologism these days.

Golden Gate Xpress is dedicated to its role as an independent, student-run news source for the San Francisco State University campus and the greater Bay Area community. Our reporting is guided by strict ethical standards and respect for the diverse community we serve. We strive to report accurate, true and complete information which will contribute to thoughtful public discourse and inform our community.

Granted, the Golden Gate Xpress certainly seems to strive to accurate reporting, but ....

That said, I read the 14 locks was a hack of Clanton's amazon account, by 4channers ordering locks in his name. Doesn't make a ton of sense of Clanton to have ordered 14 locks.

[free thoughtpolice]

President LePen has an interesting ring to it. Very progressive of the French if they elect a womyn for president.

[CommanderTuvok]

Fan, meet incoming shit. :shock:

[youtube][/youtube]

Just listened to this. I am new to Charles Murray, and I now class myself as a fan. Articulate, cares for the truth, and hated by SJW fascists. Oh, and a cool voice, as well.

[CommanderTuvok]

Bicycle lock guy is now being investigated by police, and the dude whose head he smashed in is filing charges. Also turns out he'd recently placed and order on amazon for 14 bicycle locks.

4chan has called their outing of him "what happens when you weaponize autism".

Do you have a link for that? The only thing from any sort of news site that google is showing from the past 24 hours is from here:

Yeah, need more confirmation. I have also seen reports stating Berkeley police are NOT investigating him. We'll have to wait and see.

Thing is, if **** ******* is innocent, it would be in his interest to come forward to authorities and put his case forward. 'Cos he has been well and truly exposed on-line, and his professional career compromised.

[Kirbmarc]

I'm not sure about Southern, but the "alt-right" category on Wikipedia is a fucking mess. It includes real white supremacists like David Duke and Richard Spenser, complete morons/exhibitionist trolls like Tila Tequila, Donald Trump and the oddball Curtis Yarvin/Mencius Moldbug.

Also, on Southern's article, we find this disclaimer:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
This article's factual accuracy is disputed. (November 2016)
Some of this article's listed sources may not be reliable. (November 2016)
This article's lead section may not adequately summarize key points of its contents. (March 2017)

Southern might as well be alt-right, whatever that means. Aneris, however, is rather dishonest in saying that "no evidence will matter" in Southern's case, since I've never discussed Lauren Southern.

The point of contention were the political ideas of Sargon of Akkad, not of Southern. Contrary to what Aneris seems to think they're not one and the same. There is NO evidence of Sargon advocating for racialist ideas, unless one counts memes about Pepe the Frog or Kekistan as such.

Even Wikipedia doesn't seem to classify Sargon as alt-right. :think:

As for Aneris' accusation that I classify people as Regressives at the drop of hat, this is also dishonest.

I've written many times that people like Ophelia Benson, Heina Dadhabhoy, Nice Mangos, even Ed Brayton while SJ-adjacent and a bit obsessed with purity tests, aren't Regressives. Regressive Leftists are those who openly apologize for islam because "muslims are oppressed". No one of those people does it, so no matter how much I disagree with them on other issues (like "special pronouns" in the caso of Mangoes or feminist issues in the case of Benson and Brayton) they're not Regressives.

The Regressive Left are people like CJ Werleman, Glenn Greenwald, Nathan Lean, Giliell or PZ Myers, who deny that islam has big issues, or in the case of Myers minimize those issues, and in doing so betray the ideals of criticism of bigotry when it's muslims who are bigots.

Unlike Aneris I apply nuance to both sides of the aisle. In order to call you "alt-right" I need evidence that you OPENLY and CLEARLY support racialist ideas (white supremacy, white separatism, etc.), not just that you sometimes agree with people who do and frequent their circles. Similarly in order to call you Regressive I need evidence that you OPENLY and CLEARLY support the idea that islam has little to no flaws or that those flaws are minimal when compared to others issues because "muslims are oppressed", not just that you sometimes agree with people who think this way and frequent their circles.

I have precise standards for using labels. Aneris, evidently, doesn't, at least when it comes to people she doesn't like, and prefers to support narratives.

[pro-boxing-fan]

Misère!

Says Alt Right things, or poses with racist slogans on Twitter.

Like what? Anti-feminist stuff? Anti-islam stuff? Not being ashamed of your culture? Her saying she is a nationalist?

Parties with Alt Righters, like Cernovich.

So what?

Worked for alternative right media, in the Alt Right scene.

No, simply false. The Rebel Media is not alt-right nor is Ezra Levant an alt-righter. As far as i know, the closest to an alt-righter they employ is Gavin McInnes.

Writes books with ideas close that of the identitarian movement.

I have not red her book, have you? Does being identitarian makes you automatically alt-right? Does being a skinhead automatically make you a neo-nazi? Does all chinese look the same to you?

Is commonly associated with the Alt Right, including on Wikipedia.

Like i said, her wiki page does not mention her being alt-right. What you mean is the page related categories have alt-right listed in it. Just like it does for Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins fame, Donald Trump, David Duke, etc. Yet, none of those people are alt-right.

Was kicked out of the Libertarian party, and libertarian ideas play no important role in her campaigning, or are arguably at odds with her views (traditional family, no freedom to believe or worship what you want, closed borders etc).

She was re-instated a week after and ran in the election. Funnily enough, her wiki page does say she's a conservative and libertarian activist. The page related categories where you cherry picked "alt-right" also include Canadian libertarians, Libertarianism in Canada and Libertarian Party of Canada candidates for the Canadian House of Commons.

[Kirbmarc]

Sorry, this is a label confusion on my part:

In order to call you "alt-right" I need evidence that you OPENLY and CLEARLY support racialist ideas (white supremacy, white separatism, etc.), not just that you sometimes agree with people who do and frequent their circles.

should read

In order to call you "in service of a neo-nazi agenda" I need evidence that you OPENLY and CLEARLY support racialist ideas (white supremacy, white separatism, etc.), not just that you sometimes agree with people who do and frequent their circles.

I don't know why I wrote "alt-right" the first time when I myself argued that "alt-right" is a confused categorization. I meant to reply to Aneris' quick accusations of neo-nazist agendas and I got my wires crossed. Mea culpa.

Anyway I can readily agree that people like David Duke or Richard Spenser are "in service of a racialist/neo-nazi agenda". I don't know about Southern. It's pretty clear from the ideas he supports that Sargon of Akkad doesn't fit in those criteria.

[Brive1987]

It still hits me.

+ Ivanka Trump.
+ White House letterhead
+ Official statement

I don't know whether to scream or have an erection.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

No, Aneris is right. Labels accurately sort people according to their value. It isn't just a lazy way of dismissing people's opinions because you disagree with them. People on the alt-right are always wrong about everything, so there is no need to lay the pipes for Nazi-ism by actually listening to them, let alone finding that there is some merit in their opinions and finding out why they form the opinions that they do. It is always Nazi related.

The left should always be looked at with nuance, however. If Chomsky talks with the regressive left or Marxists, he isn't laying the pipes for Stalinism or SJW government. We must separate his statements from extreme ideology and give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's quite easy. The left is nuanced, the right always extremist, perhaps even Nazis. Nazis everywhere. If we just plug our ears and condemn them loudly, all will be well.

For you autists, the former is sarcasm.

[jet_lagg]

I don't know what “her wiki” means, but she is categorized, correctly, as Alt Right on the Wikipedia. But I guess that also doesn't count, like all the other sources you don't like. <snip>

1) If wikipedia labeled Southern as alt-right then wikipedia, and you, would be wrong

2) Wikipedia does not appear to say what you say it says. It labels her a conservative libertarian and mentions she once tweeted in a way that could vaguely, though not really be used to infer she maybe considered herself alt-right. To elaborate, she said "#AltRightMeans I don't have to be ashamed of my heritage" as part of an event called The Triggering, which is exactly what it sounds like.

Pro-tip: there are better ways to ascertain someone's political positions than reading into statements made with the sole and explicit intent of upsetting leftists

[Tigzy]

It still hits me.

+ Ivanka Trump.
+ White House letterhead
+ Official statement

I don't know whether to scream or have an erection.

She's really on to a loser with that one, in terms or responses.

Lefties: Muh Palestine! Gaza! Also, ur dad is Hitler.
Righties: You married a jew, ur soul is forfeit. Da goyim know!

[MarcusAu]

'Regressive-Left' is even less clearly defined than 'Alt-Right'

Though I don't think that most would define Regressive on a single issue (ie not willing to criticise Islam - though that may be litmus test for it). There's also the progressive stack, and standpoint theory and believing in the post-mod strains of feminism which come part and parcel with the ideology. As well as the 'guilty until proven innocent' mindset.

[Really?]

I think we're all forgetting that Wikipedia entries are written by people, many of whom are assholes. When it comes to a judgment call about a label that has no hard-and-fast definition but carries a stigma for some, it really doesn't matter what Wikipedia says.

Wikipedia keeps forcing out mentions of Carrier's sexual harassment cases. It doesn't even mention his semen fetish or include him in a list of prominent semen fetishists. Does that mean they aren't real or that they aren't worthy of inclusion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

It still hits me.

+ Ivanka Trump.
+ White House letterhead
+ Official statement

I don't know whether to scream or have an erection.

Why not both? "Women of the White House" calendars would sell well this term.

[jet_lagg]

Southern might as well be alt-right, whatever that means.

<snip>

Quick survey for anyone willing. How would you define "alt-right"? I'm expecting most to say it's a useless and confused term.

[Kirbmarc]

No, Aneris is right. Labels accurately sort people according to their value. It isn't just a lazy way of dismissing people's opinions because you disagree with them. People on the alt-right are always wrong about everything, so there is no need to lay the pipes for Nazi-ism by actually listening to them, let alone finding that there is some merit in their opinions and finding out why they form the opinions that they do. It is always Nazi related.

The left should always be looked at with nuance, however. If Chomsky talks with the regressive left or Marxists, he isn't laying the pipes for Stalinism or SJW government. We must separate his statements from extreme ideology and give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's quite easy. The left is nuanced, the right always extremist, perhaps even Nazis. Nazis everywhere. If we just plug our ears and condemn them loudly, all will be well.

For you autists, the former is sarcasm.

:lol:

I've explicitly supported Aneris when she claimed that Chomsky isn't a regressive or even a SJWs, because he isn't (hell the guy advocated for the freedom of speech of Robert Faurisson, a Holocaust denialist). I have my issues with Chomsky in that he's too partisan in his criticism, but he's definitely not in the same boat of PZ Myers or even of Ophelia Benson.

Yet Aneris won't extend the same benefit of doubt or nuance to figures on the right. Sargon has explicitly endorsed like the idea that children of single mothers with low income are at risk of criminality and that different rates of single motherhood between ethnicities might explain differences in criminality between ethnicities, which isn't a racist ideas (it's based on parenting, not race) and has been supported by people who frequently post here (like Billy From Ockham and jet_lagg).

Sargon, in his videos with Gad Saad (a jew of middle eastern ancestry) has expressed the idea of integration in a new society and rejection of traditional societal models as a net good for immigrants to the "west", again not a racist idea, and contrasted Saad's own success with the issues of the muslim minority in the UK. You may disagree with him about this issue (and I do, I think he's over-simplifying issues about social class even though some of his reasoning about integration is sound) but it's something that heavily clashes with Aneris' characterization of Sargon as "laying the pipes for a neo-nazi agenda".

Yet because Sargon is on friendly terms with people like JonTron and they have some ideas and goals (anti-EU, anti-mass immigration) in common then they share the exact same ideas and principles and are working for the same societal goals.

[Aneris]

I guess that FTB and the Orbiteers are right. We're all rape apologists because we all post on the Slymepit, which is a haven for rapists. You can even google it.

"Rape apologist" has a clearly defined definition, just look it up on Shakesville.

On the Slymepit, you will find denial of rape culture. Victim blaming. Triggering images. Denial of PTSD. Defense of rapists like Paul Nungesser.

It couldn't possibly be that recently coined terms like "Alt-Right" are defined in the eye of the beholder and are used to level ad hominems as a replacement for real arguments.

I'll have more to say later, but there's fourteen new and near-identical articles about how Gamergate is a terrorist front group dedicated solely to harassing women.

Cool story, but this is not even wrong.

Just as with the Woke culture, there is a political phenomenon you can call whatever you want. Political scientists see a Far Right movement associated with the french Identitaires, which now exists in several countries and which is known internationally as Alt Right. Forerunners exist since the 1980s, but the recent refugee crisis allowed them a rebranding, which however doesn't impress most people, who note it's the same brown stuff as always, just memefied and made hip in certain circles.

Take Griffin's fascism definition, and you also see where the fascism charge comes from, palingenetic rebirth of a nation based on ethnicity, struggle and so on.

“We are trying to play with [Trump’s] rhetoric,” Timm said. But he added that his movement needs to be careful, because “make Germany great again” is an expression that the Nazis used.

This movement is generally viewed as Far Right, amorphous, with tendency to neo fascism and since the 1980s the counter-movement to the babyboomers and 1968ers. More recently, they are associated with Breitbart. But they also try to become hip, and have a fancy new black/yellow lambda flag (in Europe), taken from popculture and the spartans (i.e. defending Europe against the persian hordes, go figure).

Not only do opponents write about them, their own media confirm it, e.g.
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/2 ... alt-right/

Part of this is down to the alt-right’s addiction to provocation. The alt-right is a movement born out of the youthful, subversive, underground edges of the internet. 4chan and 8chan are hubs of alt-right activity. For years, members of these forums – political and non-political – have delighted in attention-grabbing, juvenile pranks. Long before the alt-right, 4channers turned trolling the national media into an in-house sport.

...

The origins of the alternative right can be found in thinkers as diverse as Oswald Spengler, H.L Mencken, Julius Evola, Sam Francis, and the paleoconservative movement that rallied around the presidential campaigns of Pat Buchanan. The French New Right also serve as a source of inspiration for many leaders of the alt-right.

The media empire of the modern-day alternative right coalesced around Richard Spencer during his editorship of Taki’s Magazine. In 2010, Spencer founded AlternativeRight.com, which would become a center of alt-right thought.

...

The so-called online “manosphere,” the nemeses of left-wing feminism, quickly became one of the alt-right’s most distinctive constituencies. Gay masculinist author Jack Donovan, who edited AlternativeRight’s gender articles, was an early advocate for incorporating masculinist principles in the alt-right. His book, The Way Of Men, contains many a wistful quote about the loss of manliness that accompanies modern, globalized societies.

How about this?
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... ge-meet-ib

Find articles by all the big outlets yourself, reporting similar things. Everyone's wrong? And so on. Then read political scientists, who tell you about the rebranding strategy of this Far Right movement, and their views.

ALSO, please, finally look up association fallacy! Again. Besides, Sargon's claims to be the "centre" is also a typical meme of the identitarian movement (the headline of a good german article) and they of course also fit perfectly into the Culture War framing of his.

[Brive1987]

It still hits me.

+ Ivanka Trump.
+ White House letterhead
+ Official statement

I don't know whether to scream or have an erection.


[.tweet][/tweet]

Why not both? "Women of the White House" calendars would sell well this term.

I now need to see Ivanka do the bambi.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... t9Fel8ZaF9

[Kirbmarc]

'Regressive-Left' is even less clearly defined than 'Alt-Right'

Though I don't think that most would define Regressive on a single issue (ie not willing to criticise Islam - though that may be litmus test for it). There's also the progressive stack, and standpoint theory and believing in the post-mod strains of feminism which come part and parcel with the ideology. As well as the 'guilty until proven innocent' mindset.

That's being a SJW, not a Regressive, as least according to the origins of the expression. Regressive Left was first used by Maajid Nawaz (a liberal muslim) to describe those leftists who offer excuses for islam. That's why I've written that Ophelia Benson or Nice Mangos aren't Regressive Leftists.

"SJW" is more vague, and relates more to a general attitude and mindset of presumption of guilt than a precise litmus test.

The Progressive Stack and Standpoint Theory are part of the Post-Modern Left. Then there's Radical Feminism and Intersectionality, which are sub-sets of Post-Modernism.

There are some people who are Regressives but not Post-Modern, like Glenn Greenwald, and people who are Post-Modern but not Regressive, like Nice Mangoes. There are postmodernists who aren't "SJWs" (Kimberlé Crenshaw herself, the creator of the Intersectional Stack, wasn't a SJW) and there are SJWs who don't even know that they're defending post-modern ideas (like Steve Shives).

[Really?]

It still hits me.

+ Ivanka Trump.
+ White House letterhead
+ Official statement

I don't know whether to scream or have an erection.


[.tweet][/tweet]

Why not both? "Women of the White House" calendars would sell well this term.

I now need to see Ivanka do the bambi.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... t9Fel8ZaF9

http://i.imgur.com/TXWGaRV.jpg

[rayshul]

Southern might as well be alt-right, whatever that means.
<snip>

Quick survey for anyone willing. How would you define "alt-right"? I'm expecting most to say it's a useless and confused term.

I generally consider myself alt-right. The problems in the definition of alt-right came about when people who liked free speech and /pol/ nutters realised really belatedly that Richard Spencer had invented a group with the same name, and had done it first. I don't have a big problem with Spencer but he's definitely a white nationalist. Milo was once considered alt-right until he was reminded of the Richard Spencer connection.

I like lulzy internet culture and freeze peach and laughing at SJWs. My views are largely libertarian aligned. That used to be alt-right.

[jet_lagg]

The wikipedia article on the alt-right is actually quite good. Good here being defined as unlikely to make the people it's describing indignant (at least in my estimation).

Having been introduced to the label through GamerGate I was more inclined to think of it as a bunch of irreverent civic nationalist types who are way too amused by juvenile Hitler jokes. After reading more from sites like Atlantic Centurion and Vox Popoli I decided that the white nationalists had a greater historical and cultural claim to the label, but that they were getting swamped by entryists who vastly outnumbered them (very, very few people can actually be sold on racial segregation as a government policy, no matter what the hyper ventilating blue tribe may believes). The entryists then bristle at being called white supremacists (because they're not, they're not even white nationalists) and push back. Since language is descriptive this leads the the ongoing nebulous nature of the label. Round and round we go.

[deLurch]

Righties: You married a jew, ur soul is forfeit. Da goyim know!

I don't think the bulk of the right wing cares if someone is a jew or not. In fact, with Christianity running strong through the Republican party, they kind of go crazy about the homeland of Jesus and see the Jews as good caretakers and allies in the middle east.

[Brive1987]

Commendable effort - but no cigar.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... PdAsRs7sl1

[deLurch]

What is the latest word on the Carrier lawsuit?

[MarcusAu]

That's being a SJW, not a Regressive, as least according to the origins of the expression. Regressive Left was first used by Maajid Nawaz (a liberal muslim) to describe those leftists who offer excuses for islam. That's why I've written that Ophelia Benson or Nice Mangos aren't Regressive Leftists.

"SJW" is more vague, and relates more to a general attitude and mindset of presumption of guilt than a precise litmus test.

The Progressive Stack and Standpoint Theory are part of the Post-Modern Left. Then there's Radical Feminism and Intersectionality, which are sub-sets of Post-Modernism.

There are some people who are Regressives but not Post-Modern, like Glenn Greenwald, and people who are Post-Modern but not Regressive, like Nice Mangoes. There are postmodernists who aren't "SJWs" (Kimberlé Crenshaw herself, the creator of the Intersectional Stack, wasn't a SJW) and there are SJWs who don't even know that they're defending post-modern ideas (like Steve Shives).

Sorry KM - you are going to have to diagram it out for me. :)

[Kirbmarc]

Take Griffin's fascism definition, and you also see where the fascism charge comes from, palingenetic rebirth of a nation based on ethnicity, struggle and so on.

Griffin's definition of fascism is a mess:

Palingenetic ultranationalism is a theory concerning generic fascism formulated by British political theorist Roger Griffin.[1][2] The key elements are that fascism can be defined by its core myth, namely that of revolution to achieve a "national rebirth" — palingenesis.

Griffin argues that fascism uses the "palingenetic myth" to attract large masses of voters who have lost their faith in traditional politics by promising them a brighter future under fascist rule.

According to Griffin's definition Silvio Berlusconi and Huey Long were fascists, since they promised a national rebirth against an old, decadent order. There's a difference between the explicitly authoritarian actions of fascists and simply the "promised to return to the old glory". There's a difference between fascism (explicitly authoritarian) and right-wing populism (which remains within the bounds of liberal democracy).

Trump is more or the latter than the former. Right-wing populism of course isn't immune from criticism (hell I'd argue that it HAS to be criticized heavily, since it's a very easy way for corrupt politicians like Trump to game the system) but it's not an existential menace to liberal democracy like fascism.

[deLurch]

I generally consider myself alt-right. The problems in the definition of alt-right came about when people who liked free speech and /pol/ nutters realised really belatedly that Richard Spencer had invented a group with the same name, and had done it first. I don't have a big problem with Spencer but he's definitely a white nationalist. Milo was once considered alt-right until he was reminded of the Richard Spencer connection.

I have seen the Richard Spencer has claimed to have coined the term Alt-right, but he is also seeking publicity for himself and his cause.

I know that media and left wing blogs love to bring up that Alt-Right has having racist roots among the white supremacists & white nationalists. But has anyone here done any actual research to determine if any of this is true? Or are we all relying on what we have been told?

[jet_lagg]

What is the latest word on the Carrier lawsuit?

Still waiting on the judge's ruling re: improper venue, last I saw.

[Really?]

What is the latest word on the Carrier lawsuit?

I look around on regular basis, but I haven't seen anything. I don't know how to search the legal databases or whatever. I'm hoping for more releases of the PUA King's smooth talk.

[MarcusAu]

...
I generally consider myself alt-right.
...

But how do you feel about invading other countries ie Afghanistan, Iraq and the recent bombing of Syria?

Because that seems be the test that sorts the Alt-Right (and libertarians) from the Neo-Cons.

[Brive1987]

What is the latest word on the Carrier lawsuit?

Feb 5 and FtB was still ebegging

http://freethoughtblogs.com/kriswager/2 ... -gofundme/