Give Me a Urinal or Give Me Death!

[John D]

I'm going to quote some stats from a book I'm currently reading and was curious if they seem inaccurate to you guys 'n' gals? Obviously, this only applies to those with an interest in historical ass-hats, the fuckery they got up to and the marks they left upon history. I'll explain my reasons after (if) the following gets chewed up, kicked around and nailed to the floor.


Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - 30,000 murdered
The Catholic Church (Spanish Inquisition) - 150,000 murdered
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 1,600,000 murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - 1,700,000 murdered
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 2,000,000 murdered
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (30,000,000 total) murdered
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 60,000,000 murdered
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - 62,000,000 murdered
Muhammad (Islamic Expansion) - 270,000,000 non-Muslims murdered

Note: The above is quoted verbatim, I've changed nothing. Also, the book lists no citations/sources and gives no explanation for how the totals were calculated.

Feel free to be as scathing as you like.

The Muhammad number doesn't look correct at all. Is this the supposed number of dead while "the prophet" was alive? Makes no sense that 270 million people even lived in the year 800. Right? Maybe I'm missing something.

[HunnyBunny]

Gilell is the archetypal SJW. Smug, self-centered, obsessed with her own moral superiority and personal comfort, unwilling to change her mind no matter what (she "whitesplained" islam as a religion of peace who had nothing to do with sexual assaults in Cologne to Anjuli Pandavar :lol: ), often unwittingly revealing her own ignorance and prejudices (like when she argued that the German children of black American soldiers, who had lived all their lives in Germany, were "isolated from black culture", as if all black people should know each other and race equals culture). She's always morally superior to the plebs, which include anyone who disagrees with her (she found a list of great guitarists racist because it didn't include enough black people: even other Hordelets told her she was taking this too far, but instead of conceding a mistake she doubled down).

You'd almost believe she's a Poe if it wasn't for the fact that there's a lot of evidence that she's not.

iI've seen pics, you could almost say there's a large body of evidence she exists. :lol:

[gurugeorge]

I'm going to quote some stats from a book I'm currently reading and was curious if they seem inaccurate to you guys 'n' gals? Obviously, this only applies to those with an interest in historical ass-hats, the fuckery they got up to and the marks they left upon history. I'll explain my reasons after (if) the following gets chewed up, kicked around and nailed to the floor.


Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - 30,000 murdered
The Catholic Church (Spanish Inquisition) - 150,000 murdered
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 1,600,000 murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - 1,700,000 murdered
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 2,000,000 murdered
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (30,000,000 total) murdered
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 60,000,000 murdered
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - 62,000,000 murdered
Muhammad (Islamic Expansion) - 270,000,000 non-Muslims murdered

Note: The above is quoted verbatim, I've changed nothing. Also, the book lists no citations/sources and gives no explanation for how the totals were calculated.

Feel free to be as scathing as you like.

The Muhammad number doesn't look correct at all. Is this the supposed number of dead while "the prophet" was alive? Makes no sense that 270 million people even lived in the year 800. Right? Maybe I'm missing something.

Yeah. I could buy that figure if "Islamic Expansion" meant the thousand-odd year total of: expansion Westwards through North Africa to Spain, plus the expansion to Europe northward through the Middle East and the Balkans, plus the expansion East through Kashmir and India, on to the Southeast Asia, plus Islamic piracy in the Mediterranean, plus the Arab slave trade in Europe and Africa. AFAIK all those events sometimes involved large numbers of non-Muslim non-combatants killed.

But it doesn't make sense as applying to anything during Mohammed's lifetime.

[Lsuoma]

I'm going to quote some stats from a book I'm currently reading and was curious if they seem inaccurate to you guys 'n' gals? Obviously, this only applies to those with an interest in historical ass-hats, the fuckery they got up to and the marks they left upon history. I'll explain my reasons after (if) the following gets chewed up, kicked around and nailed to the floor.


Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - 30,000 murdered
The Catholic Church (Spanish Inquisition) - 150,000 murdered
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 1,600,000 murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - 1,700,000 murdered
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 2,000,000 murdered
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (30,000,000 total) murdered
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 60,000,000 murdered
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - 62,000,000 murdered
Muhammad (Islamic Expansion) - 270,000,000 non-Muslims murdered

Note: The above is quoted verbatim, I've changed nothing. Also, the book lists no citations/sources and gives no explanation for how the totals were calculated.

Feel free to be as scathing as you like.

The Muhammad number doesn't look correct at all. Is this the supposed number of dead while "the prophet" was alive? Makes no sense that 270 million people even lived in the year 800. Right? Maybe I'm missing something.

Yeah. I could buy that figure if "Islamic Expansion" meant the thousand-odd year total of: expansion Westwards through North Africa to Spain, plus the expansion to Europe northward through the Middle East and the Balkans, plus the expansion East through Kashmir and India, on to the Southeast Asia, plus Islamic piracy in the Mediterranean, plus the Arab slave trade in Europe and Africa. AFAIK all those events sometimes involved large numbers of non-Muslim non-combatants killed.

But it doesn't make sense as applying to anything during Mohammed's lifetime.

Which book?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Death killed 108 billion humans.

[MarcusAu]

Death killed 108 billion humans.

[youtube][/youtube]

[MacGruberKnows]

The endgame is a society where everything is geared towards what produces the maximum amount of comfort for "oppressed" people, regardless of every other factor.

Look for evidence of this in PZ's Kilstein post and Giliel (glial cell's) replies. Giliel is particularly useful in these matters, as she seems to exhibit the purified lunatic ideal. There's no need to condense or summarize. She's already provided the perfect example. She's very upset that any male feminist might respond in a male-centric fashion. This is on a post about the untrustworthiness of male feminists. Now, given that one must suspend rational thought just to get up to speed on many of these things, it's not all that hard to sympathize with "male feminists" for being upset about the security of their status, given that this is a blog post about just that. But, no. Giliel says no. First and foremost, even that must be subordinate to considering the well-being of women who may have been victimized by traitorous male feminists.

Gilell is the archetypal SJW. Smug, self-centered, obsessed with her own moral superiority and personal comfort, unwilling to change her mind no matter what (she "whitesplained" islam as a religion of peace who had nothing to do with sexual assaults in Cologne to Anjuli Pandavar :lol: ), often unwittingly revealing her own ignorance and prejudices (like when she argued that the German children of black American soldiers, who had lived all their lives in Germany, were "isolated from black culture", as if all black people should know each other and race equals culture). She's always morally superior to the plebs, which include anyone who disagrees with her (she found a list of great guitarists racist because it didn't include enough black people: even other Hordelets told her she was taking this too far, but instead of conceding a mistake she doubled down).

You'd almost believe she's a Poe if it wasn't for the fact that there's a lot of evidence that she's not.

I remember that. She said Willie Dixon was a great guitarist. He played bass. And was not even a great bass player. A legendary 50's blues/r&b performer who I don't think is given enough credit for his role in the creation of rock & roll. (He was writing stuff in the early early fifties that was r&r, they just didn't call it that then.) Wrote great music, basically ran Chess Records, was the janitor and I believe could fill in on drums if necessary. But not a great guitar player not even a guitar player. A pretty good but not great bass player.

And he sued the assholes Led Zeppelin and won over stealing his songs and a bunch of other blues legends and not giving them credit or royalties. So just for that he is my hero.

Just not a great guitarist because not even a guitarist.

[MacGruberKnows]

For Gilliel's consideration, Willie is not playing a guitar:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cir ... ?s=594x594

Willie is playing a bass. An upright bass. He is playing it well, but not great. It is not a guitar.

[MacGruberKnows]

For Gilliel's consideration, Willie is not playing a guitar:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cir ... ?s=594x594

Willie is playing a bass. An upright bass. He is playing it well, but not great. It is not a guitar.

That look on WIllie's face is like "Damn Giliel, what the fuck you talking about you crazy female Kraut? This is like my upright bass, it ain't no guitar. Not even an upright guitar. Those fuckers from Led Zeppelin send you over here to fuck with me?"

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Karmakin]

Also on that chart of deaths, quite frankly, stopping with the Mohammad number (which I agree looks stupidly high)..and not including the Mongol expansion to the West in that list? Yeah. It's just BS propaganda.

[Aneris]

I made another track (or two actually). It's still somewhat random what I feel like uploading, and more or less quick jams. Recently, I uploaded a disco track with a touch of breakdance. It's structured around a bass riff I like. I occasionally have several versions of stuff and that's one of those, where I also tested a C64s tyle chiptune arp, that's in there somewhere (they didn't have enough channels for proper chords, and couldn't digitalize yet, so they used a trick where the three notes are played separately but in an almost instantaneous fashion).

The other thing I made, far from finished, but at least more than a loop, is a bleak Doom track, based on the disharmonic chords of evil which certainly have a name, but which I don't know (I think it's not the tritonus). Several chord progressions have names, like the Tristan Chord etc and I am curious if this one is named, too, maybe someone knows. Most know it from the Imperial March, but is a reliable companion for every unsettling villainy. It can be produced by am→fm, or em→cm etc, which I expanded by a third with the same interval, basically dividing the octave in three equal intervals. Anyway here is it, Starship into the Void, with a brief happy jam moment until it plunges back to cosmic horror and fades to black.

[Karmakin]

I made another track (or two actually). It's still somewhat random what I feel like uploading, and more or less quick jams. Recently, I uploaded a disco track with a touch of breakdance. It's structured around a bass riff I like. I occasionally have several versions of stuff and that's one of those, where I also tested a C64s tyle chiptune arp, that's in there somewhere (they didn't have enough channels for proper chords, and couldn't digitalize yet, so they used a trick where the three notes are played separately but in an almost instantaneous fashion).

The other thing I made, far from finished, but at least more than a loop, is a bleak Doom track, based on the disharmonic chords of evil which certainly have a name, but which I don't know (I think it's not the tritonus). Several chord progressions have names, like the Tristan Chord etc and I am curious if this one is named, too, maybe someone knows. Most know it from the Imperial March, but is a reliable companion for every unsettling villainy. It can be produced by am→fm, or em→cm etc, which I expanded by a third with the same interval, basically dividing the octave in three equal intervals. Anyway here is it, Starship into the Void, with a brief happy jam moment until it plunges back to cosmic horror and fades to black.

Well, my ears didn't bleed. So that's a success.

In all honesty, I thought both were good, although my personal taste lies towards the first rather than second. My foot was definitely tapping to the first one.

[MarcusAu]

I don't always enjoy music - but when I do - it's the music made by decapitated floating squirrel heads and apples that I enjoy the most.

[MacGruberKnows]

[youtube][/youtube]

That is a bass guitar. But not an upright bass.

This ends my series of lessons on the upright bass.

[Kirbmarc]

I'm going to quote some stats from a book I'm currently reading and was curious if they seem inaccurate to you guys 'n' gals? Obviously, this only applies to those with an interest in historical ass-hats, the fuckery they got up to and the marks they left upon history. I'll explain my reasons after (if) the following gets chewed up, kicked around and nailed to the floor.


Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - 30,000 murdered
The Catholic Church (Spanish Inquisition) - 150,000 murdered
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 1,600,000 murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - 1,700,000 murdered
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 2,000,000 murdered
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (30,000,000 total) murdered
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 60,000,000 murdered
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - 62,000,000 murdered
Muhammad (Islamic Expansion) - 270,000,000 non-Muslims murdered

Note: The above is quoted verbatim, I've changed nothing. Also, the book lists no citations/sources and gives no explanation for how the totals were calculated.

Feel free to be as scathing as you like.

The figures look wildly exaggerated. The "Islamic expansion" one is ridiculous if applied to the period when Muhammad was still alive, since he was active in the Arab peninsula which never had nowhere near as close as 270,000,000 people. Maybe it's a bit more accurate if applied to all deaths caused by the Caliphate expansion, by the Moghul Empire and by the Ottoman Empire, but those expansions and empires lasted for more than a thousand year. There are very few reliable estimates, but those for the muslim conquest of India and Muslim Moghul empire seem to be between 100,000, 000 and 400,000,000 along between the 800s and the 1700s.

Likewise the numbers for Mao and Stalin seem off. Estimates for the deaths caused by Stalin's regime vary widely, but most historians today accept that the total number of premature deaths under Stalin's regime was about 20,000,000 in roughly 30 years, and most of those deaths weren't caused by murder or extermination camps but by famines. It's known at least in some cases those famines were deliberately attempts to starve enemies of the regime to death, but it's unknown how many of the deaths were caused by deliberate acts and how many just by bad management or the effects of WWII.

What seems fairly certain is that at least about 750,000 people died as a direct result of Stalin's purges or due to starvation and hard labor while prisoners in camps, and number might be higher, around 2.5-3 million. The 62,000,000 estimate comes from Solzhenitsyin, who likely included many of the victims of WWII and of various Nazi atrocities in Russia in the count.

Estimates for the deaths under Mao also vary. Most of the deaths under Mao, just like under Stalin, were caused by famines and starvation. The lowest estimates give a death toll of 2.5 million of people dead due to starvation, while the highest offer estimates as high as 45 million. I can't find a source for the 60,000,000 figure. The number of people deliberately killed (excluding the possibility of planned famines) under the Mao regime is probably about 400,000.

Similarly the total death toll for Hitler seems to be a bit exaggerated, too. Most historians place the number of the total victims of the Nazi extermination plans and raids and murders during WWII as between 15 and 20 million. In order to arrive to 30 millions you have to add the civilian victims of German military action in WWII to the count, which is debatable to call "murders".

The deaths in the Armenian genocide seem to be around 1.5 million, according to most estimates.

The death toll estimates of the Cambodian genocide vary between 1 and 3 million people. The 1.7 million estimate seems fair.

The number of dead people under Kim Il Sung is similarly contested, estimates for deliberate killing vary between 550,000 and 750,000, plus roughly 1,500,000 dead due to famines.

The number of people killed by inquisition is also very contested. Between 3,000 and 20,000 people were directly executed as heretics or (much later, from the 1600 onwards) as "witches". 100,000 to 125,000 died in prison due to starvation or maltreatment. 150,000 is a bit on the high end of the estimates, but not too far off.

The number of victims of the Iranian Revolution seems plausible. Amnesty International records around 3,000 confirmed executions, while other sources put the total death toll due to executions, torture or street battles at around 8,000, plus 8,000 more between 1981 and 1985. A total of 30,000 doesn't seem too far off if one includes the children forced to die as "young martyrs" to clear minefields, but again, it's debatable whether this counts as "murder"

Better estimates seem to be:

Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - around 16,000 executed or killed extra-judicially, around 10,000 children brainwashed into suicide
The Catholic Church (Inquisition) - between 3,000 and 20,000 executed, 100,000-125,000 died in prison. The death toll excludes those killed by internal crusades against "heretics", like the anti-Catar "crusade", or the mass executions of "pagan" tribes.
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 550,000-750,000 executed or died in prison, 1,500,000 murdered died due to famines
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - between 1 and 3 million exterminated or died in camps
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 1,500,000 exterminated or died in camps
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (20,000,000 total) exterminated or died in camps
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 400,000 confirmed deliberately killed, between 2,5 and 45 million died in famines
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - between 750,000 and 3,000,000 executed, killed extra-judicially or died in prison, 20,000,000 in total died premature deaths due to purges and famines
Islamic Expansion and Muslim Empires in general (lasting from Muhammed's time to the 19th century)- Unknown. Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone due the muslim conquest and rule of India.

[Kirbmarc]

Also on that chart of deaths, quite frankly, stopping with the Mohammad number (which I agree looks stupidly high)..and not including the Mongol expansion to the West in that list? Yeah. It's just BS propaganda.

Also absent are deaths in Congo due to King Leopold's regime, deaths due to the Western slavery, and deaths due to colonialism in general, and as I've already written, deaths due to the "crusades" against "heretics" inspired by the Catholic Church, or exterminations of pagan tribes by Christians.

In general, though, I think that most death tolls are exaggerated, or include people who died due to famines or plagues, or due to economic and social oppression, or due to slavery. Direct extermination was an uncommon tactic, not because of good intentions but because killing a lot of people isn't useful. You need slaves more than you need corpses. Mass murder is useful either as an example ("pay your taxes and/or don't rebel or this is how you'll end") or as a result of bogus trials, to purge the elements of the old regime and your own "problematic" supporters who are no longer useful. This doesn't mean that you have to care if your slaves die of over-exhaustion or malnutrition after a few years, though. especially if you can easily get others.

The exception to the rule of "useful murders" is when murders are motivated by religious or ideological purity, when utopian thinkers want to rid the world of "sin" or of "wrongthought" or of an "impure" race or religion or ethnicity, or all of the above. In those cases people devote more resources to killing then they get from killing. But before the industrial revolution it was hard to exterminate thousands, to say nothing of millions, of people in a short period of time. The most prolific mass murderers due to ideological reasons have happened in modern times, where extermination camps can run with industrial efficiency.

[Kirbmarc]

Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - around 16,000 executed or killed extra-judicially, around 10,000 children brainwashed into suicide
The Catholic Church (Inquisition) - between 3,000 and 20,000 executed, 100,000-125,000 died in prison. The death toll excludes those killed by internal crusades against "heretics", like the anti-Catar "crusade", or the mass executions of "pagan" tribes.
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 550,000-750,000 executed or died in prison, 1,500,000 murdered died due to famines
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - between 1 and 3 million exterminated or died in camps
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 1,500,000 exterminated or died in camps
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (20,000,000 total) exterminated or died in camps
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 400,000 confirmed deliberately killed, between 2,5 and 45 million died in famines
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - between 750,000 and 3,000,000 executed, killed extra-judicially or died in prison, 20,000,000 in total died premature deaths due to purges and famines
Islamic Expansion and Muslim Empires in general (lasting from Muhammed's time to the 19th century)- Unknown. Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone due the muslim conquest and rule of India.

Revised estimates:

Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - around 16,000 executed or killed extra-judicially, around 10,000 children brainwashed into suicide
The Catholic Church (Inquisition) - between 3,000 and 20,000 executed, 100,000-125,000 died in prison. The death toll excludes those killed by internal crusades against "heretics", like the anti-Catar "crusade", or the mass executions of "pagan" tribes.
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 550,000-750,000 executed or died in prison, 1,500,000 murdered died due to famines
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - between 1 and 3 million exterminated or died in camps
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 1,500,000 exterminated or died in camps
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (20,000,000 total) exterminated or died in camps
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 400,000 confirmed deliberately killed, between 2,5 and 45 million died in famines
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - between 750,000 and 3,000,000 executed, killed extra-judicially or died in prison, 20,000,000 in total died premature deaths due to purges and famines
Islamic Expansion and Muslim Empires in general (lasting from Muhammed's time to the 19th century)- Unknown. Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone under the muslim conquest and rule of India, very likely due to famines, social oppression, slavery, not due to exterminations.

[feathers]

That look on WIllie's face is like "Damn Giliel, what the fuck you talking about you crazy female Kraut? This is like my upright bass, it ain't no guitar. Not even an upright guitar. Those fuckers from Led Zeppelin send you over here to fuck with me?"

:lol: do go on.

[feathers]

I don't always enjoy music - but when I do - it's the music made by decapitated floating squirrel heads and apples that I enjoy the most.

You decapitate apples? You're weird.

[MacGruberKnows]

I don't always enjoy music - but when I do - it's the music made by decapitated floating squirrel heads and apples that I enjoy the most.

You decapitate apples? You're weird.

Not decapitated squirrel heads but this guy kill a lot of squirrels with nothing but clean head shots. His careful precise monotone professorial English accent makes me think he is more than just a serial killer of squirrels and rats and pigeon and crows and magpies and rabbits and ...

[youtube][/youtube]

I shoot pigeons as soon as they show up in the back of the shop where I work. End up chasing them around the floor trying to kill them off because I've only got a cheap .177 pellet gun with open sights. It won't even take a scope because the scope mounting slide is so short and cheap. So this guy is my hero. And don't fuck with him unless you want your tail to go into a helicopter death spin.

[MacGruberKnows]

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/ ... quality=85

Hey Donald, next time you fill up the oval office with a bunch of prominent black leaders, please take out the trash first.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/ ... quality=85

Hey Donald, next time you fill up the oval office with a bunch of prominent black leaders, please take out the trash first.

Oh, he has a lot more trash to deal with at the moment...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/n ... 6d6972624b
:popcorn:

[Mr. X, Indeed]

Kellyanne's World

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C52IgVwXMAMYQ5E.jpg

[Aneris]

Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - around 16,000 executed or killed extra-judicially, around 10,000 children brainwashed into suicide
The Catholic Church (Inquisition) - between 3,000 and 20,000 executed, 100,000-125,000 died in prison. The death toll excludes those killed by internal crusades against "heretics", like the anti-Catar "crusade", or the mass executions of "pagan" tribes.
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 550,000-750,000 executed or died in prison, 1,500,000 murdered died due to famines
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - between 1 and 3 million exterminated or died in camps
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 1,500,000 exterminated or died in camps
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (20,000,000 total) exterminated or died in camps
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 400,000 confirmed deliberately killed, between 2,5 and 45 million died in famines
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - between 750,000 and 3,000,000 executed, killed extra-judicially or died in prison, 20,000,000 in total died premature deaths due to purges and famines
Islamic Expansion and Muslim Empires in general (lasting from Muhammed's time to the 19th century)- Unknown. Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone due the muslim conquest and rule of India.

Revised estimates:

Ayatollah Khomeini (Iran Revolution) - around 16,000 executed or killed extra-judicially, around 10,000 children brainwashed into suicide
The Catholic Church (Inquisition) - between 3,000 and 20,000 executed, 100,000-125,000 died in prison. The death toll excludes those killed by internal crusades against "heretics", like the anti-Catar "crusade", or the mass executions of "pagan" tribes.
Kim Il Sung (N. Korean Purge) - 550,000-750,000 executed or died in prison, 1,500,000 murdered died due to famines
Pol Pot (Cambodian Genocide) - between 1 and 3 million exterminated or died in camps
Islamic Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) - 1,500,000 exterminated or died in camps
Adolf Hitler (The Holocaust) - 6,000,000 jews (20,000,000 total) exterminated or died in camps
Mao Zedong (The "Cultural Revolution") - 400,000 confirmed deliberately killed, between 2,5 and 45 million died in famines
Joseph Stalin (The "Great Purge") - between 750,000 and 3,000,000 executed, killed extra-judicially or died in prison, 20,000,000 in total died premature deaths due to purges and famines
Islamic Expansion and Muslim Empires in general (lasting from Muhammed's time to the 19th century)- Unknown. Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone under the muslim conquest and rule of India, very likely due to famines, social oppression, slavery, not due to exterminations.

Such stats also have the flaw that they prefer isolated ideologies or identifiable leaders to pin the blame to something, and also ignore that the modern era also made armies more effective at killing. Thanks to population growth, and slow globalisation there are also typically more people to kill than in the past. The wars, or purges of the past were first local, then regional, then national and then global. Due to cognitive distortions, mass deaths become invisible when there are multiple causes, or when no ideology or person can be directly blamed. We have ultimately no way of knowing. What counts as a death by catholocism? Do we include early colonialism? To what degree, and how much is pinned on the Spaniard Crown? Is Luther responsible for the Thierty Years' War? Why not? The 20 million Russians who died fighting against the Nazis -- they resisted and fought, so Communism or Russian Nationalism is responsible for their deaths, or isn't it? (it's a twisted example, but makes the point that people could have adopted whatever ideology, but opposed it and then died because of it, e.g.those "heretics").

[Kirbmarc]

Such stats also have the flaw that they prefer isolated ideologies or identifiable leaders to pin the blame to something, and also ignore that the modern era also made armies more effective at killing. Thanks to population growth, and slow globalisation there are also typically more people to kill than in the past. The wars, or purges of the past were first local, then regional, then national and then global. Due to cognitive distortions, mass deaths become invisible when there are multiple causes, or when no ideology or person can be directly blamed. We have ultimately no way of knowing. What counts as a death by catholocism? Do we include early colonialism? To what degree, and how much is pinned on the Spaniard Crown? Is Luther responsible for the Thierty Years' War? Why not? The 20 million Russians who died fighting against the Nazis -- they resisted and fought, so Communism or Russian Nationalism is responsible for their deaths, or isn't it? (it's a twisted example, but makes the point that people could have adopted whatever ideology, but opposed it and then died because of it, e.g.those "heretics").

Oh, I agree. There's no point in playing "who's worst", and industrialized countries can kill people much more efficiently. Ultimately we can have some rough estimates but no real numbers, often the estimates vary by a order of magnitude, especially for periods where we have little to no records.

What those numbers tell us is that there are no saints in history, no "good guys", and that history is more complicated than a simplistic good vs. evil. Also they remind us of the dangers of fanatic, dogmatic beliefs and of in-group morality and out-group hostility in general.

[Kirbmarc]

Do you remember the muslim professor who praised muslim slavery at Georgetown University?

Now Georgetown Students are calling a critic of sharia "islamophobic".

Students at prestigious Georgetown University are protesting a speech by Nonie Darwish, an Egyptian-American human rights activist they are accusing of “hate speech” and “Islamophobia” for her opposition to extreme sharia law.

This despite that fact that the same Georgetown students recently had no problem with an Islamic Studies professor’s defense of slavery and rape.

As for Darwish, she was born a Muslim in Egypt but fled to the United States, abandoning her old religion. She was invited to speak before the Georgetown University College Republicans group about her new book, “Wholly Different: Why I Chose Biblical Values Over Islamic Values.” The Clare Booth Luce Policy Institute co-sponsored the event with the college group.

Referring to Islamic extremism, Darwish has previously declared it a threat, stating it “should be feared, and should be fought, and should be conquered, and defeated, and annihilated, and it’s going to happen.”

Her enemies at Georgetown denounced the invitation, condemning the Republican group that invited her in an op-ed for the Georgetown Voice that condemned Darwish for her “hateful and violent views” in a piece titled “Upcoming Campus Speakers Fuel Anti-Muslim Rhetoric.”

With no shortage of self-contradictory doublethink, writer Aly Panjwani, says in her article that she’s only trying to fight “hate speech”.

“My critique of these speakers is not an effort to silence free speech,” she claims. “These speakers are not exercising free speech, they are exercising hate speech, a speech of the kind that no organization, especially at Georgetown, should endorse or give a platform to.”

But saying that slavery is fine isn't "hate speech".

[free thoughtpolice]

She also apparently has two daughters whom she's determined to protect from patriarchy and gender stereotype, no matter what it does to their psyches. Kind of a "we had to destroy the village to save it" scenario, I suspect. I expect some really good "Mommie Dearest" type reading somewhere around 2035.

Praise logic she hasn't hatched a son. No doubt you could make a truly frightening horror movie about what her husband goes through.

[free thoughtpolice]

Shiv, aka tranny regina/rex edmontosaurus has written a piece on the bomb threats aimed at muslims at Concordia University.
http://archive.is/tJrTj
There has been an arrest, but the suspect hasn't been identified or his race described. The threats purport to come from a conservative group. Shiv says:

Remember folks: It’s not terrorism when white people do it.

Then later goes on to mention:

I haven’t really written on the idea of criminal profiling but I understand that actual intelligence analysts know it’s bunk.

I guess it isn't profiling when you assume a white man did it.

A statement from the muslim students association on learning that police and security presence will be stepped up in the near term:

Zebiri said she isn't in favour of that measure, because students from minority groups may feel uncomfortable with having more security guards around.

[Kirbmarc]

Shiv, aka tranny regina/rex edmontosaurus has written a piece on the bomb threats aimed at muslims at Concordia University.
http://archive.is/tJrTj
There has been an arrest, but the suspect hasn't been identified or his race described. The threats purport to come from a conservative group. Shiv says:

Remember folks: It’s not terrorism when white people do it.

Then later goes on to mention:

I haven’t really written on the idea of criminal profiling but I understand that actual intelligence analysts know it’s bunk.

I guess it isn't profiling when you assume a white man did it.

A statement from the muslim students association on learning that police and security presence will be stepped up in the near term:

Zebiri said she isn't in favour of that measure, because students from minority groups may feel uncomfortable with having more security guards around.

If you don't want more security in response to a threat because security makes you uncomfortable, what do you even want? Expelling all the wrong thinking white men (and gener-race traitors, too) from the university, because you profile them as potential terrorists? :think:

[Badger3k]

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/ ... quality=85

Hey Donald, next time you fill up the oval office with a bunch of prominent black leaders, please take out the trash first.

Someone posted a tweet saying not to be too hard on her - she lost her legs in the Bowling Green Massacre.

[Brive1987]

Well this blonde raped three football players.

Forget Kellyanne - fight the real monsters

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/bb4b ... f8233b2773

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-l ... a607294fab

[Kirbmarc]

Well this blonde raped three football players.

Forget Kellyanne - fight the real monsters

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/bb4b ... f8233b2773

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-l ... a607294fab

An investigation reportedly revealed Fletcher had sex with the teens in different parts of the county. The exact ages of the boys have not been disclosed.

So they could be any age from 13 to 17. She's 42 and a teacher. If what's alleged is true and she's convicted she deserves the same punishment that a 42 year old man would get for statutory rape of minors from an adult who's in a position of trust over them.

“School officials, when they became aware there could be inappropriate misconduct associated with the interactions between the suspect and students, promptly notified law enforcement investigators.”

How weird. They contacted law enforcement. Don't they know that they should have kept the story secret for years, then reveal it to a blogger?

[Brive1987]

I can't imagine what those kids will suffer throughout their lives.

But I'm trying too.

[Brive1987]

Caine gloats over Greg Locke getting a thank you card from planned parenthood on the back of a trolling donation.

She is so tickled that she reprints his full address details. Oh the guffaws.

But wait. Wasn't this the childish pseudo abuse PZ complained about being on the receiving end of?

Nah. That must be an unfact.

[gurugeorge]

Well this blonde raped three football players.

Forget Kellyanne - fight the real monsters

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/bb4b ... f8233b2773

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-l ... a607294fab

I always find the attitude that comes out when women rape boys interesting. There's a snickering attitude, "Hurr durr, I wish I'd been "raped" by her when I was 14" type thing. A couple of compare-and-contrastable points:-

1) Erection, like lubrication, can be an automatic response. Part of the psychological damage of rape for some females is that they find themselves looking on at their body responding despite their conscious will. Is there any reason to think it's different for some males? What's that? Oh, men are beasts with uncontrollable sexual urges, they love it anyway. Riiiight ...

2) Of course some boys who are raped by older women will enjoy it. So will some girls raped by older men. But that's unthinkable! The poor, precious treasures, the sanctity of their precious foo-foos has been violated, how can they possibly have enjoyed it!

"Sugar and spice and all things nice; slugs and snails and puppy dog tails."

It's amazing the degree to which Feminism trades on the very traditionalist tropes it's ostensibly fighting against.

(This may be a trigger for me because I was - very mildly, on only a few occasions, to be fair - sexually abused by my step-mother, God rest her soul.)

[Brive1987]

Rape is usually cast as a crime of violence and power.

I'd suggest that by swapping the gender roles the paradym shifts to something new. Probably breach of trust which for a step mum could be quite a problem.

I'm not sure how the trust / value proposition would work out in other cases as I never had a random blonde pert Mrs Robinson come onto me as a teenager.

Probably the last thing I'd need to be told was that I was a raped and broken person needing psych support.

[Brive1987]

But yeah. Lock her up.

[Kirbmarc]

I can't imagine what those kids will suffer throughout their lives.

But I'm trying too.

Well if I those were my children, and a professor fucked them, I wouldn't want that professor to be around them or other kids.

Just saying.

[Brive1987]

I can't imagine what those kids will suffer throughout their lives.

But I'm trying too.

Well if I those were my children, and a professor fucked them, I wouldn't want that professor to be around them or other kids.

Just saying.

You can't drop the hard reality of gender differences when it suits.

The reality is that I secretly high five myself when my intellectual teenage son dates an attractive girl while I have my shotgun ready for the local private school boys sniffing around my daughter. The world is a fucked up lumpy place and the fence starts with the family.

I don't really know what the RL implications for a football jock are in a situation like this. But I see a different dynamic at work and this intrigues me. Yes she probably a predator - but that has implications about the prey which I'm not entirely sure about.

[gurugeorge]

Rape is usually cast as a crime of violence and power.

Well yeah, but it's often cast as a crime of penetrative violence and power, which only a penis is capable of. But while male upper body strength, age for age, is much higher than female, a full-grown woman isn't too far off the strength of a boy, and capable of overwhelming.

And again, there's this bizarre depth-psychological elision of any "positive value" the vagina has - as if it isn't something that can envelop and grasp, as if enveloping isn't a paradigmatic thing in nature, like eating. As if the vagina is eternally some soft, oyster-like hole, as if it can't be terrifyingly powerful in its grip.

The female can be passive and patient, the male can be active and agent; but the female can also be active and agent, and the male passive and patient. The former pairs of traits are over-emphasized in both traditionalism and Feminism; this allows women to (sometimes literally) get away with murder. It also allows Feminism to ignore female agency and responsibility when it suits them - in relationships, in law, in society, etc.

(The best sex is often when both sexes are active and agent - when the gnarled, oaken shaft strives mightily with the tenacious, sucking hell-pit. At least I seem to remember something like that, from the dim, distant past ... :D )

[Steersman]

<snip>
Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone under the muslim conquest and rule of India, very likely due to famines, social oppression, slavery, not due to exterminations.

LoL - "premature deaths". Y'all might check out The Muslim Issue on the topic; seems to have some credible historians weighing in:

These contemporary records boasted about and glorified the crimes that were committed – and the genocide of tens of millions of Hindus, mass rapes of Hindu women and the destruction of thousands of ancient Hindu / Buddhist temples and libraries have been well documented and provide solid proof of the World’s biggest holocaust.

Dr. Koenraad Elst in his article “Was There an Islamic Genocide of Hindus?” states:

“There is no official estimate of the total death toll of Hindus at the hands of Islam. A first glance at important testimonies by Muslim chroniclers suggests that, over 13 centuries and a territory as vast as the Subcontinent, Muslim Holy Warriors easily killed more Hindus than the 6 million of the Holocaust. Ferishtha lists several occasions when the Bahmani sultans in central India (1347-1528) killed a hundred thousand Hindus, which they set as a minimum goal whenever they felt like punishing the Hindus; and they were only a third-rank provincial dynasty.

The biggest slaughters took place during the raids of Mahmud Ghaznavi (ca. 1000 CE); during the actual conquest of North India by Mohammed Ghori and his lieutenants (1192 ff.); and under the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526).”

He also writes in his book “Negation in India”:

“The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter.”

Will Durant argued in his 1935 book “The Story of Civilisation: Our Oriental Heritage” (page 459):

“The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.”

Francois Gautier in his book ‘Rewriting Indian History’ (1996) wrote:

“The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.”

https://i2.wp.com/lyemium.com/sites/def ... Armour.jpg

Writer Fernand Braudel wrote in A History of Civilisations (1995), that Islamic rule in India as a

“colonial experiment” was “extremely violent”, and “the Muslims could not rule the country except by systematic terror. Cruelty was the norm – burnings, summary executions, crucifixions or impalements, inventive tortures. Hindu temples were destroyed to make way for mosques. On occasion there were forced conversions. If ever there were an uprising, it was instantly and savagely repressed: houses were burned, the countryside was laid waste, men were slaughtered and women were taken as slaves.”

Alain Danielou in his book, Histoire de l’ Inde writes:

“From the time Muslims started arriving, around 632 AD, the history of India becomes a long, monotonous series of murders, massacres, spoliations, and destructions. It is, as usual, in the name of ‘a holy war’ of their faith, of their sole God, that the barbarians have destroyed civilizations, wiped out entire races.” ....

Lovely people ...

[free thoughtpolice]

I have recently been hearing about the power of the petrodollar and how the US constantly deals with shady dictators and starts wars to keep a strangle hold on it. The thing is, that the key benefit of the petrodollar to the US isn't that the price of oil is pegged to the US currency, it is that the US benefits from investment from oil producing companies as well as brokerage fees and banking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling
Also, the US is by no means the only country that benefits from the petrodollar. For example, tiny Switzerland is home for 5 out of 10 of the world's largest oil brokers:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... aders.html
I wonder if Swiss banks also benefit disproportionately from those wicked petrodollars. :think: After all, they are a relatively well to do country considering they don't have a lot of natural resources and really only produce cuckoo clocks and chocolate bars.

[Hunt]

I can't imagine what those kids will suffer throughout their lives.

But I'm trying too.

Damn if I can find the Youtube clip, but there's a Norm MacDonald sketch from the 90's that goes something like:

"Teacher has sex with school boys. Authorities are calling her a sexual predator. The boys are calling her......the greatest teacher ever."

[gurugeorge]

LoL - "premature deaths". Y'all might check out The Muslim Issue on the topic; seems to have some credible historians weighing in:

These contemporary records boasted about and glorified the crimes that were committed – and the genocide of tens of millions of Hindus, mass rapes of Hindu women and the destruction of thousands of ancient Hindu / Buddhist temples and libraries have been well documented and provide solid proof of the World’s biggest holocaust.

Dr. Koenraad Elst in his article “Was There an Islamic Genocide of Hindus?” states:

“There is no official estimate of the total death toll of Hindus at the hands of Islam. A first glance at important testimonies by Muslim chroniclers suggests that, over 13 centuries and a territory as vast as the Subcontinent, Muslim Holy Warriors easily killed more Hindus than the 6 million of the Holocaust. Ferishtha lists several occasions when the Bahmani sultans in central India (1347-1528) killed a hundred thousand Hindus, which they set as a minimum goal whenever they felt like punishing the Hindus; and they were only a third-rank provincial dynasty.

The biggest slaughters took place during the raids of Mahmud Ghaznavi (ca. 1000 CE); during the actual conquest of North India by Mohammed Ghori and his lieutenants (1192 ff.); and under the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526).”

He also writes in his book “Negation in India”:

“The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter.”

Will Durant argued in his 1935 book “The Story of Civilisation: Our Oriental Heritage” (page 459):

“The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.”

Francois Gautier in his book ‘Rewriting Indian History’ (1996) wrote:

“The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese.”

https://i2.wp.com/lyemium.com/sites/def ... Armour.jpg

Writer Fernand Braudel wrote in A History of Civilisations (1995), that Islamic rule in India as a

“colonial experiment” was “extremely violent”, and “the Muslims could not rule the country except by systematic terror. Cruelty was the norm – burnings, summary executions, crucifixions or impalements, inventive tortures. Hindu temples were destroyed to make way for mosques. On occasion there were forced conversions. If ever there were an uprising, it was instantly and savagely repressed: houses were burned, the countryside was laid waste, men were slaughtered and women were taken as slaves.”

Alain Danielou in his book, Histoire de l’ Inde writes:

“From the time Muslims started arriving, around 632 AD, the history of India becomes a long, monotonous series of murders, massacres, spoliations, and destructions. It is, as usual, in the name of ‘a holy war’ of their faith, of their sole God, that the barbarians have destroyed civilizations, wiped out entire races.” ....

Lovely people ...

For me, as someone who has a particular fondness for Buddhism as one of the world's generally nicest and most intellectually interesting religions, Islam's total destruction of Buddhism in Kashmir and India (as well as parts of Southeast Asia) is a salient black mark. Kashmir had an entirely Buddhist culture that got utterly genocided. India at the time of the earliest Islamic incursions was Buddhist in large part. By the time Islam got done with it, the only literary remains of the great Buddhist universities of Nalanda, Vickramasila, Odantapuri, Jagadalala and Somapura were the comparatively few texts sporadically-visiting Tibetan monks had squirreled away over the course of a few centuries. Nalanda, the largest, was a small town, with 10,000 students, 1510 teachers, and about 1,500 workers at its height. The number system we use today, the "invention" of zero - these were actually the product of that comparatively advanced and civilized culture.

Part of the reason why the Raj was welcomed and looked at fondly by many Indians, was the fact that the British put the finishing touches on the final efforts of an exhausted culture to rid itself of Islamic dominance.

Someone mentioned the Mongols above - the Mongol attack on Islam was itself a belated response to several centuries of incursions in to the "Stan" areas (sort of an Asian version of the Crusades). The Turks and Mongols were related tribes - the Turks fought Islam for 400 years, but eventually succumbed to the mind-virus.

Again, the Crusades were a belated response to Islam's first wave of expansion - the destruction of the Christian cultures of the Levant and North Africa.

It's quite probable that the "Dark Ages" were a side-artifact of Islamic expansion. (The notion that the Western Empire sort of crumbled as a result of "barbarian" invasions is belied by evidence that shows the "barbarians" took over but continued, and didn't destroy, the established Graeco-Roman culture, and that it actually had a renaissance for a while - rather, it was the destruction of coastal trade routes along the Mediterranean as a result of Islamic piracy that cut off the remnants of Graeco-Roman culture in Europe from the networks of trade that had sustained them.)

We're still too close to it now, but I think in the future, Islam will be understood to have been one of the most cancerous mind-viruses that has ever plagued humanity. The degree to which the history of Europe, India and Asia were shaped by a continuous struggle against Islam has yet to be fully understood.

[Service Dog]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Kirbmarc]

I have recently been hearing about the power of the petrodollar and how the US constantly deals with shady dictators and starts wars to keep a strangle hold on it. The thing is, that the key benefit of the petrodollar to the US isn't that the price of oil is pegged to the US currency, it is that the US benefits from investment from oil producing companies as well as brokerage fees and banking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling
Also, the US is by no means the only country that benefits from the petrodollar. For example, tiny Switzerland is home for 5 out of 10 of the world's largest oil brokers:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... aders.html
I wonder if Swiss banks also benefit disproportionately from those wicked petrodollars. :think: After all, they are a relatively well to do country considering they don't have a lot of natural resources and really only produce cuckoo clocks and chocolate bars.

Dude, you need to lean to read carefully.

I've repeatedly said that the US as a whole may or may not be benefit from the petro-dollar, but the US finance system and their friendly lobbies surely do. It's not a surprise that those people invest their commodities in brokerage firms located in Switzerland (due to friendly tax and banking laws). I never said Switzerland is The Land Without Flaws.

I simply said that big business with interests in the petro-dollar supports politicians which make decisions which support carrying on with the petro-dollar.

Indeed, let's look into it:

VITOL GROUP

2010 revenue: $195bn
President and CEO: Ian Taylor
Founded: 1966 by Ian Taylor
Headquarters: Geneva, Switzerland; Rotterdam, the Netherlands
Staff numbers: 2,700
Focus, operations, events: Top focus is physical oil trading. It scaled down derivatives trading several years ago. Last week, Vitol was first to export oil from rebel-held Libya.
Assets include: storage tanks, exploration and production in the Philippines, Congo, Ghana, Nigeria, Russia, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, and the Fujairah refinery in the United Arab Emirates.
Facts: Vitol and Glencore were among dozens of firms accused of paying kickbacks to Iraq in 2005 by a commission that probed the United Nation's Oil for Food programme. Vitol was fined $17.5m after pleading guilty.

How weird that Vitol was the first to export oil from Lybia after Gaddafi was toppled. :think: Let's look into this:

According to an article in the Financial Times, Vitol was the company to organise the first controversial sale of Libyan rebel oil to Tesoro Corporation in early April 2011.[26] According to the Financial Times, the company was approached by the Qatari national oil company to sell a cargo of crude oil supplied by the Libyans in exchange for technological supplies and fuel for the National Transitional Council of Libya.[27]

Qatar was behind the financing for the rebels in Libya? I'm shocked, shocked!

GLENCORE INTERNATIONAL
2010 revenue: nearly $145bn.
Net income: $3.8bn
Chief executive: Ivan Glasenberg
Founded: 1974 by Marc Rich as Marc Rich & Co.
Headquarters: Baar, Switzerland.
Staff numbers: 2,700
Focuses on: metals and minerals, energy and agricultural products. It holds large stakes in publicly listed firms such as Xstrata.

Interesting. Who founded this company? Marc Rich:

Rich was born in 1934 to a Jewish family in Antwerp, Belgium.[4][5] His parents were working-class Jews who emigrated with their son to the United States in 1941[6] to escape the Nazis.[4] His father opened a jewelry store in Kansas City, Missouri. The family moved to Queens, New York City in 1950, where Rich's father started a company that imported Bengali jute to make burlap bags.[7] Rich's father later started a business trading agricultural products and helped found the American Bolivian Bank.[7]

In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage).[7][17] The charges would have led to a sentence of more than 300 years in prison had Rich been convicted on all counts.[17] The indictment was filed by then-U.S. Federal Prosecutor (and future mayor of New York City) Rudolph Giuliani. At the time it was the biggest tax evasion case in U.S. history.[18]

Learning of the plans for the indictment, Rich fled[9] to Switzerland and, always insisting that he was not guilty, never returned to the U.S. to answer the charges.[Notes 1] Rich's companies eventually pleaded guilty to 35 counts of tax evasion and paid $90 million in fines,[7] although Rich himself remained on the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most-Wanted Fugitives List for many years,[20] narrowly evading capture in Britain, Germany, Finland, and Jamaica.[21] Fearing arrest, he did not even return to the United States to attend his daughter's funeral in 1996.[22]

On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision.[23] Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful."[24] Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation."[9]

Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[25] to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office.[21]

Hey, wait a second....these names ring a bell...

Let's go on, shall we?

CARGILL

2010 global sales: $108bn
Chief executive: Greg Page
Founded: 1865 by William Wallace Cargill at the end of the US Civil War with one grain storage silo in Iowa.
Headquarters: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Staff numbers: 131,000
Involved in: agribusiness, energy trading, meat and food ingredient applications, biofuels production, animal nutrition products, and industrial products such as steel and salt.
Other: WW Cargill's son-in-law, John MacMillan Sr, took over leadership of the company in 1909. Today, nearly 90pc of the company is still owned by the Cargill and MacMillan families. The remainder is owned by employees.

Interesting news here:

Some of Clinton's biggest benefactors hail from firms associated with organic foods. In addition to grocery giant Whole Foods and kefir maker Lifeway, Turkish organic-fruit exporter Nimeks mustered the biggest agribiz donation of all in the 2016 presidential race—perhaps eyeing the fast-growing US organic-food import market. Big-name food processors General Mills, Nestlé, and Kraft chipped in, as did grain traders Cargill and Continental Grain along with Roll Global, the California nut-pomegranate giant owned by the potent Resnick family, profiled by Josh Harkinson here.

Uhm.... :think:

KOCH INDUSTRIES
2009 revenue: near $100bn, according to sources.
Chairman and CEO: David Koch
Founded: Winkler-Koch Engineering co-founded by Fred Koch in 1925.
Headquarters: Wichita, Kansas
Staff numbers: 50,000 in the United States, 20,000 internationally
Interests include: oil refining and transportation, petrochemicals, forestry and paper, and ranching.
Other: Family firm run by the conservative-activist Koch brothers, David and Charles (executive VP). The duo has spent millions funding advocacy groups and political campaigns of right-wing US politicians and candidates. David Koch has argued against evidence of global warming as a result of industrial activity.

On the surface, the Koch Brothers, staunch neo-con supporters, enemies of anyone who's not saying that global warming is a myth, would have nothing to do with any Democrat, right? They'd rather support a naked rat than have even a small deal with Hillary Clinton, right?

How weird, then, that Hillary Clinton publicly rejected Koch support but took their money anyway

For one, there are multiple executives and lobbyists involved with Koch Industries who are either raising money for Clinton or have donated to her campaign.

The most egregious of these is Heather Podesta, whose former brother-in-law is John Podesta (Clinton’s 2016 campaign chairman). Heather Podesta is a former lobbyist for Koch Industries, and according to The Intercept, “one of the most prolific fundraisers for the Clinton campaign, having personally raised at least $348,581,” as of February 2016.

Fang also tweeted that others associated with Koch Industries, such as Amy Treanor and Robert Hall, have donated large sums to Clinton’s campaigns.

Amy Treanor, Koch Industries branding exec, gave $$ to Hillary’s current campaign. Koch lobbyist Robert Hall donated to her Senate bid
— Lee Fang (@lhfang) April 25, 2016

Capitol Counsel, a lobbying firm for Koch Industries that has received a lobbying income of $320,000, also contains multiple employees who are fundraising for Clinton.

David W. Jones, a partner of Capitol Counsel, currently serves on the Finance Committee of Hillary for America, and was also “a volunteer fundraiser for the 2008 presidential campaign of then-Senator Hillary Clinton,” according to the Capitol Counsel website.

During the 2016 election, he has bundled over $505,000 for the Clinton campaign.

Josh Kardon, another Capitol Counsel Partner, “served as chair of the Hillary Clinton for president campaign in Oregon in 2008,” while also donating the maximum amount to the 2016 Clinton campaign.

Aside from the bundlers and executives donating Koch-backed money, Clinton is connected in yet another way to Koch Industries.

As Fang details, “Koch Industries served on the exec council of the [Democratic Leadership Council] DLC, the Clinton group that promoted conservative pro-biz Dems.”

Koch Industries served on the exec council of the DLC, the Clinton group that promoted conservative pro-biz Dems https://t.co/LOlzlgyQr9
— Lee Fang (@lhfang) April 24, 2016

#NothingToDoWithSyriaAndThePetrodollar

ARCHER DANIELS MIDLAND CO.
Net sales: $62bn (fiscal year to June 30, 2010)
Chief executive: Patricia Woertz
Founded: 1902 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, by John Daniels and George Archer
Headquarters: Decatur, Illinois, listed on the NYSE
Staff numbers: 29,000
Focuses on: oilseeds, corn processing, agricultural services, storage and transportation, wheat milling, cocoa processing and food ingredients business.
Other: It is known for converting a beverage alcohol plant into its first ethanol fuel facility in 1978 during the Arab Oil Embargo.

Ethanol Advocates ‘Encouraged’ After Clinton Expresses Support for Renewables

The standard, expanded by a 2007 energy law, requires 15 billion gallons of conventional corn ethanol and 21 billion gallons of advanced ethanol be put into the nation's motor fuel supply by 2022. Refiners such as Chevron Corp. and ExxonMobil Corp. oppose it and ethanol producers such as Archer Daniels Midland Co. and Abengoa Bioenergy support it.

In addition, the standard has been seen as ripe for reform by lawmakers frustrated by the Environmental Protection Agency's ongoing delays in issuing the annual renewable fuel standard, but many analysts don't believe congressional action will occur until after the 2016 election.

Interesting...

Anyway this article seems to sum it up well: Hillary Clinton’s Biggest Campaign Bundlers Are Fossil Fuel Lobbyists

Nearly all of the lobbyists bundling contributions for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s campaign have at one time or another worked for the fossil fuel industry.

Scott Parven and Brian Pomper, lobbyists at Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, have been registered to lobby for the Southern California-based oil giant Chevron since 2006, with contracts totaling more than $3 million. The two bundled Clinton contributions of $24,700 and $29,700, respectively. They have helped Chevron over the years resist efforts to eliminate oil and gas tax breaks and to impose regulations to reduce carbon emissions.

Ankit Desai, vice president for government relations at top LNG exporter Cheniere Energy, bundled $82,000 to the Clinton camp, with much of it coming from Cheniere Energy executives. Cheniere executives, including Desai, have donated $38,800 to Clinton’s campaign.

The company has lobbied hard in Washington and maintains close ties to the Obama administration. The company won the first approval to export gas to countries outside of U.S. free-trade agreements. The company is seeking approval to open additional terminals to export LNG, and will likely need a friend in the White House come 2017.

Of course not ALL big oil companies are Clinton-friendly (Trafigura actually made a deal with Syria in 2011, the day after Clinton called for a boycott, while Guvnor International has ties to Vladimir Putin) but there surely ARE some pretty powerful people who would have a lot to lose from the fall of the petrodollar, and who happen to have close ties with the Clintons and with Hillary in particular, or with US-friendly petro-countries like Qatar.

This has nothing to do with Clinton's decision to back petro-country supported Salafi militias in the Syrian civil war, of course.

[Kirbmarc]

<snip>
Probably between 100,000,000 and 400,000,000 premature deaths (of uncertain origin) in India alone under the muslim conquest and rule of India, very likely due to famines, social oppression, slavery, not due to exterminations.

LoL - "premature deaths". Y'all might check out The Muslim Issue on the topic; seems to have some credible historians weighing in:
<snip>
Lovely people ...

Thanks. The numbers, ten instead of hundreds of millions, seem more credible.

[CommanderTuvok]

About that Concordia bomb hoax.

Why are the dumb jerks at FTB convinced a "white man" or "Republican" was responsible?

The man arrested is named Hisham Saadi. Not sure what his background is, but I'm not convinced he is what the Baboons said he is? They might have jumped the gun, just a bit.

Fucking turdtards.

[CommanderTuvok]

Shiv, aka tranny regina/rex edmontosaurus has written a piece on the bomb threats aimed at muslims at Concordia University.
http://archive.is/tJrTj
There has been an arrest, but the suspect hasn't been identified or his race described. The threats purport to come from a conservative group. Shiv says:

Remember folks: It’s not terrorism when white people do it.

Then later goes on to mention:

I haven’t really written on the idea of criminal profiling but I understand that actual intelligence analysts know it’s bunk.

I guess it isn't profiling when you assume a white man did it.

A statement from the muslim students association on learning that police and security presence will be stepped up in the near term:

Zebiri said she isn't in favour of that measure, because students from minority groups may feel uncomfortable with having more security guards around.

Have people noticed Chigau's comment? He pipes up with a link, quoting the fact they have arrested someone , "a 47 year old man"....

....but he omits the name, as that might screw up the narrative.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[free thoughtpolice]

Me "The Swiss are raking in big bucks by dealing with crooks and petrodollars, as much or more per capita as Merkins"
Kirbmarc "You didn't read that right, hey look over there. Here is something a republican said about the Clintons"
:P

[Kirbmarc]

About that Concordia bomb hoax.

Why are the dumb jerks at FTB convinced a "white man" or "Republican" was responsible?

The man arrested is named Hisham Saadi. Not sure what his background is, but I'm not convinced he is what the Baboons said he is? They might have jumped the gun, just a bit.

Fucking turdtards.

More info:

The man charged in connection with Wednesday's bomb threats at Concordia University, Hisham Saadi, was a PhD student in economics there, according to the man who sublet Saadi his apartment.

Speaking to CBC's French-language network, Radio-Canada, under the condition of anonymity, the man said he had met Saadi at Concordia to pick up a rent cheque.

He said Saadi is of Lebanese origin.

He surely doesn't seem like a stereotypical white supremacist/racist.

[Kirbmarc]

Me "The Swiss are raking in big bucks by dealing with crooks and petrodollars, as much or more per capita as Merkins"
Kirbmarc "You didn't read that right, hey look over there. Here is something a republican said about the Clintons"
:P

I think that what we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"The Swiss", just like "the Americans" aren't a monolith. There are specific persons who are parts of specific groups and lobbies.

Also none of the sources I've quoted are from Republican politicians or pundit. Not a single one. They're from Wikipedia, the Huffington Post, Mother Jones, The Intercept, or publicly available news.

At this point I really have to ask: do you work for the Clinton foundation? :lol:

[Kirbmarc]

Me "The Swiss are raking in big bucks by dealing with crooks and petrodollars, as much or more per capita as Merkins"
Kirbmarc "You didn't read that right, hey look over there. Here is something a republican said about the Clintons"
:P

Do facts have a Republican bias now? :lol:

Again, not a single source for what I've posted is from Republicans...

[free thoughtpolice]

Tuvok wrote:

Have people noticed Chigau's comment? He pipes up with a link, quoting the fact they have arrested someone , "a 47 year old man"....

....but he omits the name, as that might screw up the narrative.

In defense of Chigua (xe identifies as a she btw), the story was updated with the name after both her and shiv pinned the act on the vile white cis hetero man.
The canadian press has been making a big deal about the apparent rise in islamophobia so it's a bit of larf that someone with an apparently islamic name is the suspect. As it now appears that it was a muslim, or at least someone from a muslim background, I wonder if Shiv and friends will want to call it terrorism. :lol:

[free thoughtpolice]

At this point I really have to ask: do you work for the Clinton foundation? :lol:

Oh yeah! Has Putin invested heavily in the cuckoo clock factory you work in!? :snooty:

[Kirbmarc]

In the realm of big business and big politics nationalities matter much less than personal or professional relationships.

I'm pretty sure that most American citizens DO NOT directly benefit from the petro-dollar in any way, shape or form. Just like I'm sure that ordinary Swiss citizens AREN'T bankers, and DO NOT directly benefit from the profits which bankers make.

Lobbies, special interests, groups of interests, fundraisers, politicians, big name CEOs, bundlers, bankers and other big players are a different story. Some of them benefit from the petro-dollar, others don't.

The point of my post is that there's plenty of evidence that many of those who benefit from the petro-dollar have close business or personal ties to Hillary Clinton or her campaign, so it's reasonable to expect that her foreign policy stategies (including the support for Salafi anti-Assad militias in Syria) might be influenced by her common interests with petrodollar beneficiaries.

[pro-boxing-fan]

About that Concordia bomb hoax.

Why are the dumb jerks at FTB convinced a "white man" or "Republican" was responsible?

The man arrested is named Hisham Saadi. Not sure what his background is, but I'm not convinced he is what the Baboons said he is? They might have jumped the gun, just a bit.

Fucking turdtards.

Hisham Saadi:

http://images.lpcdn.ca/924x615/201703/0 ... -saadi.png

This is the letter he sent:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=593DEC92

[Kirbmarc]

At this point I really have to ask: do you work for the Clinton foundation? :lol:

Oh yeah! Has Putin invested heavily in the cuckoo clock factory you work in!? :snooty:

You already asked me if Donald Trump pissed on me, dude. :lol: This is weak sauce.

Please, jokes aside, have a read at the links I've posted.

[pro-boxing-fan]

It look like FTB is right about him being white.