The Refuge of the Toads

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Smalley has invited PZ onto his podcast to discuss the issue. I'd be surprised if he goes because for one, it's not a controlled environment where he can shut David down, and for two, PZ knows his voice has no gravitas. Better to stick to type where he can substitute BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS IN A RED FONT for authority.

Not a big fan of Smalley or his show, but his article is mostly sensible.

I tried reading that the other day, and found it entirely incomprehensible.

[Billie from Ockham]

I still would seriously prefer to see a Trump presidency. My reasons are selfish; I want to see the TPP killed, and Australia to not be dragged into more foreign adventuring in the name of Freedom and Democracy. Both of which seem exceptionally more likely to be the case under a Trump presidency than a Clinton presidency.

I don't really care what the president does the rest of the time as they leave us the fuck alone.

But, if I was a US citizen, I'd be voting Trump. {snip}

Here's what's missing from most discussions that end up as a half-arsed endorsement of Trump: his pick for VP.

The odds of Trump finishing a first term in office are probably lower than any other candidate for a century, due to a combination of previous deeds, lack of real interest, and predicted behavior if in office. This increases the odds of his VP becoming President. And if you know much about Pence, you're as scared of him as you were about Sarah Palin ... religious nut-job with a two-digit IQ.

[Lsuoma]

Anyone got a link to the Sex Robot vid (you know, the one with the dryer vent hose arms). Don't want to google for it at work...

[youtube][/youtube]

Thanks, oh fuzzy one.

[Billie from Ockham]

I wonder if the Olympics will have Mens, Womens, and Inter/Trans events in the future?

If not, why not?

Or, in categories of testosterone rates, measured at regular intervals and shortly before the match.

Shortly before the match won't solve the problem. It's the levels of testosterone starting back around puberty that matter.

[Lsuoma]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

[Billie from Ockham]

ACAB = All Coppers Are Bastards.

Not to be confused with ACABilk.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... r_Bilk.jpg

Or one of the worst Genesis songs Evah! (and that's saying a lot).

[blitzem]

I wonder if this will get any traction on this side of the pond among the "believe the accuser" types.

Gina-Lisa Lohfink: German model fined for false rape claim

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37158471

[Sunder]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I will say one thing in its defense: The Ben-Hur that everyone loves and is familiar with is itself a remake. Still, no idea who the target audience for this was.

[Ape+lust]

Skepticon is also featuring Greta, Carrie Poppy, and Benny Vimes this year.

A greatest hits show for washed up dullards. Party like it's 2009.

http://imgur.com/eO2sSqv.jpg

[Sunder]

Concerning the coming presidential election.

Just think these two are the best that either party could produce.

If the party system were designed to produce the BEST candidates they'd have standardized multiple-choice quizzes instead of primaries.

[Oglebart]

I wonder if this will get any traction on this side of the pond among the "believe the accuser" types.

Gina-Lisa Lohfink: German model fined for false rape claim

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37158471

So along with Dickie Carrier, that's 2 false claims this year yes? So that's it then, as false rape accusations are virtually non-existent we can surmise that any further cases reported this year MUST be 100% true?

I think I'm getting the hang of this SJW lark now. Muh-soggy-knees is all around!

[Spike13]

Skepticon is also featuring Greta, Carrie Poppy, and Benny Vimes this year.

A greatest hits show for washed up dullards. Party like it's 2009.

http://imgur.com/eO2sSqv.jpg

Is it possible for Skepicon to be emptier than it was last year?

We may need a volunteer to pay a visit and grab some pics.

(FTB and Septicchik)....Great Success!!!!

(Pictures)....four geeks in audience.

[free thoughtpolice]

Clarence wrote:

If you would here's two further scenerios:
A. Within 20 to 50 years the US has broken apart into 3 or 4 seperate countries, each of which is, of course, nuclear armed. You can imagine the breakaway was peaceful, or via military coup, or via downright civil war.
B. Within 20 years a rightwing or leftwing authoritarian Leader is in actual charge of those nukes

C. Barack Hussein Obama cancels the elections, admits he was a muslim all along, takes the name Abu Blackie al Nairobi and declares the US a caliphate with him as caliph. :ugeek:

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

They can bank on a long tail from rentals by christians, though.

[Oglebart]

It's interesting watching the increasingly SJW infected MSM in the UK trying to carefully play down the jubilation at Team GB's fantastically successful performance at the Rio olympics. I just get the impression that every news report prominently featuring the Union Flag is shown through gritted teeth and great care is being taken to not seem jingoistic and triumphant when the flag is proudly blowing rather than being burnt. Lets not forget that two of the most prominent golds were won by a Somali born immigrant called Mohammed, with talk of a knighthood in the pipeline, which I'm sure will happen, deservedly so, regardless of your opinion of such "honours"

Events like the Olympics do have the power to create a feelgood factor, but I find myself looking for the SJW angle which will inevitably look to criticise and detract. As has been said many times, they only seek to tear down, never build, depressing at times.

[Tribble]

This was the picture I was looking for yesterday, this is the podium shot :shock:

http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1 ... /image.jpg

It's the three Amigos....

[Billie from Ockham]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

They can bank on a long tail from rentals by christians, though.

The last time that I tried to get something good from a "red box" my wife said "you're not a Hell's Angel" and rolled over and went back to sleep.

[John D]

I have been aware of Clarence's thing for little Asian girls... but I never realized he had a rich fantasy life thinking about the inevitable collapse of Western civilization as we know it.

[Tribble]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I didn't know they'd made it until your post... Marketing, how does it work?

[Old_ones]

Apparently there are some people here who find Narcissistic Personality Disorder cute as long as the afflicted doesn't believe in social justice.

I don't get the appeal either. Hillary Clinton is flawed and unlikable but psychologically normal.

The main appeal of Trump is that he's proposing change. In a way his appeal is similar to that of Bernie Sanders: they're both anti-establishment, with few ties to the lobbies and special interests that have heavily influenced the previous elections and seem to propose a new approach to the economy and to various policies. They also seem less easily influenced by identity groups and special interests in general (Sanders because he's a socialist/independent, Trump because he's independently rich).

I think that Trump has said a lot of dumb and illiberal things (Steersman-esque ban on Muslims, the Wall saga), but I'm still not sure if he's even actually serious about anything he says and as I said his approach to foreign policy could be relatively better than Clinton's if he were able to make a pragmatic compromise from a position of strength with Russia and Iran and gradually disentangle from the alliance with Saudi Arabia.

I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do this, since he's pushing for a more isolationist policy and a restructuring of alliances, and even John Kerry and Obama were starting the first step towards this goal. On the other hand even if Clinton wanted to gradually tame the Saudis (and her actions has shown that she doesn't care and prefers to carry on as usual) she'd have her hands tied with her close relationships with that lobby.

The Saudi Arabia lobby hates Trump. He's the first candidate in ages that I've seen them hate, and this has made me curious. He also seems like likely to get the US involved in wars abroad, which could be a good thing. And since his ban on Muslims is unconstitutional (thankfully) he could instead focus his efforts to fight Muslim supremacy by keeping a closer eye on Salafi imams, which is a good policy, and maybe on revoking the easy visas from Saudi Arabia to the US, which could limit the actions of Salafi clerics.

Hillary doesn't seem to care so much about this issue.

Yeah, I've heard this. "I'm voting for Trump because at least he'll change stuff". That's insane to me. To me that's like voting to be poked in the eye with a sharp stick because "hey - it's different".

I'm on board for more of the same, because unless a "change agent" has a reasonable, well articulated position on policy, "change" is going to advance chaos and accomplish nothing. That's what Trump looks like to me. Trump does say unreasonable and illiberal things, and that's a problem. I don't trust a lout like him to conduct business with other heads of state - he'll disrespect them because he can't help himself. He also isn't in the habit of talking cogently about the policies he'd try to implement. The closest thing hes gotten to that was a canned speech about the economy that promised basically the same crap that Romney was peddling. He's unqualified, and his campaign and businesses have been run incompetently. Luckily he's very likely to lose, because he's simply unfit. We have republican security professionals and former heads of the C.I.A. coming out of the woodwork begging us not to vote for Trump. This wouldn't be happening for a normal nominee - even one with controversial ideology. Trump is a reckless incompetent who needs to be stopped. I don't trust Trump to deal with the Saudis, whatever Clinton's relationship to them. I wouldn't trust Trump to run a Quik-E-Mart.

Clinton isn't a terrible candidate; she's a status quo candidate. That's exactly what I want in an election where no one has articulated a credible version of change. She'll appoint a couple SC Justices, get nothing done - mostly because of all the "change" we've got in congress thanks to the boorish nutjobs in the "freedom caucus" - and she'll probably keep us out of any major wars. That sounds good to me. Maybe in four or eight years we'll get some better candidates, and in the mean time we'll have a reasonably functional government and economy.

[Shatterface]

Events like the Olympics do have the power to create a feelgood factor, but I find myself looking for the SJW angle which will inevitably look to criticise and detract. As has been said many times, they only seek to tear down, never build, depressing at times.

It would be hard to top Simon Jenkins' brainfart:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... et-team-gb

This is the cunt who responded to the Naorobi attacks by blaming it on people who choose to gather together, thereby provoking terrorists.

[comhcinc]

I have been aware of Clarence's thing for little Asian girls... but I never realized he had a rich fantasy life thinking about the inevitable collapse of Western civilization as we know it.

Right? I think he should change his avatar.

http://www.danegeld.org/wp-content/uplo ... s-nigh.jpg

[VickyCaramel]

Lets not forget that two of the most prominent golds were won by a Somali born immigrant called Mohammed, with talk of a knighthood in the pipeline, which I'm sure will happen, deservedly so, regardless of your opinion of such "honours"

Yeah fuck it why not, if Jimmy Savile and a lollypop lady can get one, why not give them to people for running fast, I am sure that is a useful life skill. I am looking forward to somebody getting a gold medal and an honour for being able to touch the tip of their nose with their tounge.

[Spike13]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I didn't know they'd made it until your post... Marketing, how does it work?

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

[Spike13]

Lets not forget that two of the most prominent golds were won by a Somali born immigrant called Mohammed, with talk of a knighthood in the pipeline, which I'm sure will happen, deservedly so, regardless of your opinion of such "honours"

Yeah fuck it why not, if Jimmy Savile and a lollypop lady can get one, why not give them to people for running fast, I am sure that is a useful life skill. I am looking forward to somebody getting a gold medal and an honour for being able to touch the tip of their nose with their tounge.

And that's really the bottom line with the olympics, handing out awards to folks who do some obscure thing that nobody really gives a shit about at any other time.

A massive waste of time and money.

[Shatterface]

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

I didn't know till they reissued the novel.

Maybe they should have cast a woman in the lead. Ben-Her?

[Spike13]

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

I didn't know till they reissued the novel.

Maybe they should have cast a woman in the lead. Ben-Her?

Or made it as the recollections of a former life as a female chariot racer... Been Her

[Spike13]

Perhaps a retrospective of Zoe Quinn's former lovers... Been in Her

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Lets not forget that two of the most prominent golds were won by a Somali born immigrant called Mohammed, with talk of a knighthood in the pipeline, which I'm sure will happen, deservedly so, regardless of your opinion of such "honours"

Yeah fuck it why not, if Jimmy Savile and a lollypop lady can get one, why not give them to people for running fast, I am sure that is a useful life skill. I am looking forward to somebody getting a gold medal and an honour for being able to touch the tip of their nose with their tounge.

And that's really the bottom line with the olympics, handing out awards to folks who do some obscure thing that nobody really gives a shit about at any other time.

A massive waste of time and money.

It is certainly going that way if it isn't there already. Boxing was obviously fixed. Cringe-worthy stuff.

[comhcinc]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I didn't know they'd made it until your post... Marketing, how does it work?

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

There was next to no marketing on this movie. I don't know if it's any good but the studio did not market it at all. It didn't have any real competition. Get KFC to come out with a magical negro 5 dollar fill up and people might have been hyped to see it.

http://www.madeinhollywood.tv/wp-conten ... ndreds.jpg

[Shatterface]

Working on the assumption that Rule 34 holds on all occasions, I googled 'Ben Her' to see if there was a porn version.

I found this instead:

http://ssmscdn.yp.ca/banner/merchant/80 ... gation.jpg

Shudder.

[Spike13]

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

There was next to no marketing on this movie. I don't know if it's any good but the studio did not market it at all. It didn't have any real competition. Get KFC to come out with a magical negro 5 dollar fill up and people might have been hyped to see it.

http://www.madeinhollywood.tv/wp-conten ... ndreds.jpg

Wait one fucking minute! Morgan Freeman isn't an Alien Predator! That hair is cultural appropriation!!!!!1111!!

Morgan we've come to expect better from you. :naughty:

[Oglebart]

Events like the Olympics do have the power to create a feelgood factor, but I find myself looking for the SJW angle which will inevitably look to criticise and detract. As has been said many times, they only seek to tear down, never build, depressing at times.

It would be hard to top Simon Jenkins' brainfart:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... et-team-gb

This is the cunt who responded to the Naorobi attacks by blaming it on people who choose to gather together, thereby provoking terrorists.

What a miserable bastard, of course there is another very telling angle that wankers like this approach these matters. This is the family of Adam Peaty, gold medal winning swimmer.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/ ... 024485.jpg

Fucking look at them, they have a conservatory on their ordinary working class semi detached home! What is the world coming too when our best representatives haven't been to Eton or are members of the Islington Labour set. Not a PPE degree anywhere in that lot, shameful!

[comhcinc]

It is certainly going that way if it isn't there already. Boxing was obviously fixed. Cringe-worthy stuff.

Boxing is always fixed. Everywhere, all the time, since forever.

Reason I stick with Pro Wrestling. No way this something like this can be faked.

[Oglebart]

That Ben-Hur movie is completely news to me. I had no idea, not a real film buff really, but I still would expect to have seen something somewhere if the marketing was up to scratch.

[Lsuoma]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I didn't know they'd made it until your post... Marketing, how does it work?

Maybe they learnt from the Lady Ghostbusters fiasco not the taunt Happy Fun Ball?

[feathers]

Big fucking surprise here: Ben-Hur remake flops.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37153350

EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MORGAN FREEMAN IN IT! Racism! OMFG!! Budget: ca. $100MM; Opening weekend take: $11.4MM.

I will say one thing in its defense: The Ben-Hur that everyone loves and is familiar with is itself a remake. Still, no idea who the target audience for this was.

True, but: what integral mongol tries a remake one of the most record-beating spectacles of all time?

[Lsuoma]

That is a good point.

I didn't know they were re-making it until I saw a commercial, then I only saw about o e or two more. Not exactly a big media blitz for a new movie.

If they do not know, they will not come.

There was next to no marketing on this movie. I don't know if it's any good but the studio did not market it at all. It didn't have any real competition. Get KFC to come out with a magical negro 5 dollar fill up and people might have been hyped to see it.

http://www.madeinhollywood.tv/wp-conten ... ndreds.jpg

Wait one fucking minute! Morgan Freeman isn't an Alien Predator! That hair is cultural appropriation!!!!!1111!!

Morgan we've come to expect better from you. :naughty:

Seeing that photo my original reaction was "Wow! Whoopi Goldberg's really getting herself in good shape these days!"

[feathers]

http://imgur.com/eO2sSqv.jpg

:D
Question is: if it had been Jack Nicholson on that elevator, would she still have complained? Would they have stuck with coffee alone?

[Spike13]

It is certainly going that way if it isn't there already. Boxing was obviously fixed. Cringe-worthy stuff.

Boxing is always fixed. Everywhere, all the time, since forever.

Reason I stick with Pro Wrestling. No way this something like this can be faked.

Truer words.....

Warrior poets, graceful as gazelles.

[Sunder]

I don't see Christians coming to the film's rescue even on the home video market.

The modern flavor of religious movie is the cheap after-school special about atheist bullies. Church buses aren't going to fill up to go watch religious epics anymore.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

That Ben-Hur movie is completely news to me. I had no idea, not a real film buff really, but I still would expect to have seen something somewhere if the marketing was up to scratch.

I only saw it as a trailer before the new Star Trek movie. Trailer was pretty forgetable.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

[quote="Old_ones"][quote="Kirbmarc"][quote="Old_ones"]



Yeah, I've heard this. "I'm voting for Trump because at least he'll change stuff". That's insane to me. To me that's like voting to be poked in the eye with a sharp stick because "hey - it's different".

Dr Richard Carrier PHD should run for president. All of his girlfriends will vote for him. They've all had stuff in their eyes, and that was definitely different

[Matt Cavanaugh]

US district court grants injunction against public schools having to allow trans students to use the facility of their choice:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/file ... .08.21.pdf

SJW apoplexy in 3 ... 2... 1 ...

[fuzzy]

http://www.madeinhollywood.tv/wp-conten ... ndreds.jpg
http://www.theurbanbear.com/wp-content/ ... lyLion.jpg

[comhcinc]

http://www.kmov.com/story/32807204/12-y ... n-colorado

WHEAT RIDGE, CO (KDVR/CNN) - Donald Trump's campaign has some young blood among its leadership.

And by young, that means 12 years old.

In one of the most important counties in swing state Colorado, Donald Trump is relying on 12-year-old Weston Imer, who runs the Jefferson County operation for the Trump campaign.

Jefferson County is one of the most populous counties in Colorado and is part of the Denver metro area.

Imer is in charge of the operation where volunteers will gather and help get out the vote, and while sitting behind a desk may not be the coolest thing to do, he hopes to use the position to inspire others.

"Get involved," Imer said. "That's what I'm going to say. Get involved. Kids need to be educated."

Imer's mother, Laurel Imer, is the official field coordinator on paper, but she wants to give her son most of the responsibility and help show other parents - Democrat or Republican - how to get their kids involved.

"You have a responsibility to your children to teach them," Laurel Imer said.

School starts for Weston Imer in September, and he hopes to lead the field office until then, recruiting friends and making Trump - who he has met - proud.

He might even one day launch a campaign of his own.

"Watch for me - 2040," Imer said. "And Barron Trump, if you are watching, in 2040 I'll take you as my running mate."

The Constitution requires the president and vice president to be 35 years old. Imer would first be eligible in the 2040 election, but Barron Trump, Donald Trump's 10-year-old son, would be a few months too young.

Copyright 2016 KDVR via CNN. All rights reserved.

[Shatterface]

I don't see Christians coming to the film's rescue even on the home video market.

The modern flavor of religious movie is the cheap after-school special about atheist bullies. Church buses aren't going to fill up to go watch religious epics anymore.

Somebody must be watching biblical epics because the studios keep funding films like Noah and Exodus: Gods and Kings.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

I think our only hope now is that whichever candidate wins, they pull a William Henry Harrison and drops dead as soon as possible.( natural causes of course, assassins are assholes)

Perhaps then we might get lucky and find another Teddy R. or a Truman.[/quote]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Billie from Ockham]

US district court grants injunction against public schools having to allow trans students to use the facility of their choice:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/file ... .08.21.pdf

SJW apoplexy in 3 ... 2... 1 ...

Northern District of Texas, but the reasons are quite sound. Most of all, the Depts of Eds and Justice are not free to change the meaning of "sex" to "gender" without following standard procedures.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Brive1987]

PZ has a problem talking to people on the "Devils Instrument"?

Poor boy needs another kiss.

What is it with the phone calls? I give my phone number to friends and family. The last thing I want is The Amazing Atheist to give me a ring so we can work out our differences, as if a phone call would fix anything. Where does this fantasy that differences in philosophy are best resolved over the devil’s instrument, the telephone, with a strategy, talking, that can be as godawfully bad as Twitter for engaging in depth.

[Clarence]

I have been aware of Clarence's thing for little Asian girls... but I never realized he had a rich fantasy life thinking about the inevitable collapse of Western civilization as we know it.

Right? I think he should change his avatar.

http://www.danegeld.org/wp-content/uplo ... s-nigh.jpg

I suppose your mom is ok?
Did you ever get around to reading my links?

[Sunder]

What strategy does PZ think is superior to talking for "engaging in depth"?

Why in the world does Peez think he has any credibility at all on "engaging in depth"? His discussions always end either in banning the other person or taking his ball and going home and are completely superficial.

[Kirbmarc]

Yeah, I've heard this. "I'm voting for Trump because at least he'll change stuff". That's insane to me. To me that's like voting to be poked in the eye with a sharp stick because "hey - it's different".

I'm on board for more of the same, because unless a "change agent" has a reasonable, well articulated position on policy, "change" is going to advance chaos and accomplish nothing. That's what Trump looks like to me. Trump does say unreasonable and illiberal things, and that's a problem. I don't trust a lout like him to conduct business with other heads of state - he'll disrespect them because he can't help himself. He also isn't in the habit of talking cogently about the policies he'd try to implement. The closest thing hes gotten to that was a canned speech about the economy that promised basically the same crap that Romney was peddling. He's unqualified, and his campaign and businesses have been run incompetently. Luckily he's very likely to lose, because he's simply unfit. We have republican security professionals and former heads of the C.I.A. coming out of the woodwork begging us not to vote for Trump. This wouldn't be happening for a normal nominee - even one with controversial ideology. Trump is a reckless incompetent who needs to be stopped. I don't trust Trump to deal with the Saudis, whatever Clinton's relationship to them. I wouldn't trust Trump to run a Quik-E-Mart.

Clinton isn't a terrible candidate; she's a status quo candidate. That's exactly what I want in an election where no one has articulated a credible version of change. She'll appoint a couple SC Justices, get nothing done - mostly because of all the "change" we've got in congress thanks to the boorish nutjobs in the "freedom caucus" - and she'll probably keep us out of any major wars. That sounds good to me. Maybe in four or eight years we'll get some better candidates, and in the mean time we'll have a reasonably functional government and economy.

I guess that's fine, too. I'm willing to give her some benefit of the doubt even though so far she's been terrible in her foreign policy decisions.

The worst case scenario for me isn't a Clinton presidency or a Trump presidency, it's the paralysis of the US government due to a "lame duck" presidency of either candidate (when the Congress blocks everything they do).

[Clarence]

I have been aware of Clarence's thing for little Asian girls... but I never realized he had a rich fantasy life thinking about the inevitable collapse of Western civilization as we know it.

Hmm.
I wasn't aware that the collapse of the current political system in the US was the collapse of Western Civilization as we know it.
Even in my worst 'scenerio' above, people are still living rather modern lives, whatever the result of said political breakup.

But I guess it's always easier to pooh-pooh any "Doomsayer" at any time, and I suppose you've never noticed just how crazy the current "Overton Window" in American politics is.

And we all know frogs can be boiled indefinately without anything really bad happening to them, which of course means the direct and indirect effects of destructive multi-national capitalism, a very politically divided polity, with at least a full third of the populace feeling totes unrepresented, a corrupt political system, and increasingly authoritarian leaders playing Identity Politics aren't going to have any long term bad effects whatsoever, nosirree.

Things are just peachy, people, amirite?

[Clarence]

Yeah, I've heard this. "I'm voting for Trump because at least he'll change stuff". That's insane to me. To me that's like voting to be poked in the eye with a sharp stick because "hey - it's different".

I'm on board for more of the same, because unless a "change agent" has a reasonable, well articulated position on policy, "change" is going to advance chaos and accomplish nothing. That's what Trump looks like to me. Trump does say unreasonable and illiberal things, and that's a problem. I don't trust a lout like him to conduct business with other heads of state - he'll disrespect them because he can't help himself. He also isn't in the habit of talking cogently about the policies he'd try to implement. The closest thing hes gotten to that was a canned speech about the economy that promised basically the same crap that Romney was peddling. He's unqualified, and his campaign and businesses have been run incompetently. Luckily he's very likely to lose, because he's simply unfit. We have republican security professionals and former heads of the C.I.A. coming out of the woodwork begging us not to vote for Trump. This wouldn't be happening for a normal nominee - even one with controversial ideology. Trump is a reckless incompetent who needs to be stopped. I don't trust Trump to deal with the Saudis, whatever Clinton's relationship to them. I wouldn't trust Trump to run a Quik-E-Mart.

Clinton isn't a terrible candidate; she's a status quo candidate. That's exactly what I want in an election where no one has articulated a credible version of change. She'll appoint a couple SC Justices, get nothing done - mostly because of all the "change" we've got in congress thanks to the boorish nutjobs in the "freedom caucus" - and she'll probably keep us out of any major wars. That sounds good to me. Maybe in four or eight years we'll get some better candidates, and in the mean time we'll have a reasonably functional government and economy.

I guess that's fine, too. I'm willing to give her some benefit of the doubt even though so far she's been terrible in her foreign policy decisions.

The worst case scenario for me isn't a Clinton presidency or a Trump presidency, it's the paralysis of the US government due to a "lame duck" presidency of either candidate (when the Congress blocks everything they do).

Congress can't 'block everything they do'. Sorry.
Congress can impeach, but that basically never happens no matter what and no matter the parties involved.
Obama has managed to be quite destructive despite not being given the full power of the Congressional Purse.
And this is because so much of modern America is run on bureacratic autopilot, and Presidents can play around that the bureacracy and said policies all they want with no oversight whatsoever.

[Billie from Ockham]

The worst case scenario for me isn't a Clinton presidency or a Trump presidency, it's the paralysis of the US government due to a "lame duck" presidency of either candidate (when the Congress blocks everything they do).

I said it earlier, but I'll repeat it now: IMO, the worst-case scenario is President Pence. Paralysis would be orders of magnitude better than that.

Oddly enough, the best-case (plausible) scenario is President Kaine. Clinton winning and quickly being impeached and convicted would be an excellent resolution to the current mess.

[Shatterface]

What strategy does PZ think is superior to talking for "engaging in depth"?

Why in the world does Peez think he has any credibility at all on "engaging in depth"? His discussions always end either in banning the other person or taking his ball and going home and are completely superficial.

I listened to Harris and Dennett talking recently and - even though they completely disagreed and were largely talking past each other - neither raised their voice, nor became uncivil.

I absolutely cannot imagine Myers doing that, even with someone he agrees with 99.99%.

The guy's in it for the rage. It's just the hate that keeps his heart beating.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

PZ has a problem talking to people on the "Devils Instrument"?

Poor boy needs another kiss.

What is it with the phone calls? I give my phone number to friends and family. The last thing I want is The Amazing Atheist to give me a ring so we can work out our differences, as if a phone call would fix anything. Where does this fantasy that differences in philosophy are best resolved over the devil’s instrument, the telephone, with a strategy, talking, that can be as godawfully bad as Twitter for engaging in depth.

Such a snivelling coward is our PZ. Why not just admit you're afraid, Little Paul? People might actually get to talk back to you. Your fear regarding actually engaging with people who don't toe your line is blindingly obvious.

[comhcinc]

I have been aware of Clarence's thing for little Asian girls... but I never realized he had a rich fantasy life thinking about the inevitable collapse of Western civilization as we know it.

Right? I think he should change his avatar.

http://www.danegeld.org/wp-content/uplo ... s-nigh.jpg

I suppose your mom is ok?
Did you ever get around to reading my links?

We don't know yet. She needs more test but of course we don't have the $$$ for that. She is doing okay and is home. No I have not had the spoons to read your links yet. I have bookmarked them.

[deLurch]

http://imgur.com/eO2sSqv.jpg

:D
Question is: if it had been Jack Nicholson on that elevator, would she still have complained? Would they have stuck with coffee alone?

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