The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69541

Post by Shatterface »

By coincidence I've just started Lisa Randall's Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs which suggests that the solar system passing through a dense disk of dark matter might have disturbed the orbit of a comet leading to a collision with the Earth and the extinction of the dinosaurs. It's more a pretext for discussing the interconnectedness of the sciences rather than a serious proposal but it's one example of how dark matter could have an influence on the planets.

MacGruberKnows
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69542

Post by MacGruberKnows »

Shatterface wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Shatterface wrote:Speed of the Earth at the equator is about 460 m/s.

Orbital velocity of the Earth around the sun is 30 km/s.

IIRC, the escape velocity at a particular point of is the same as the orbital velocity.

So even if the Earth vanished while you were standing at the equator and you were flung out at a tangent at 460 m/s you would have nowhere near the velocity needed to fly off into deep space.
But as I said, you could get lucky and have a slingshot effect from the giant planets.
You'd need to reach the giant planets first and the 460 m/s you'd get from being flung from the equator if the Earth vanished isn't going to get you there.
Escape velocity means a ballistic (coasting) object can travel forever and there would never be enough gravitational potential energy to equal the kinetic energy at the moment the object began coasting even though gravitational potential energy would be increasing at all times and kinetic energy would be decreasing. This is because gravitational force decreases with the square of the distance between two object the integral used to calculate gravitation energy limits to a finite amount. An infinite distance between the two objects does not give an infinite amount of gravitational energy. So for any distance the object is from earth there is a finite escape velocity.

So if an object was flung off into space at 460 m/s from a mass that now equals 0, the gravitational potential energy would at all times be zero. Newton says for a mass' velocity to change an external force must affect it. That external force, the gravitational force from a non-existent earth is gone. The object will travel forever at 460 m/s unless other forces, like the sun, Jupiter and whatnot affect it.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69543

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
So if Mars suddenly doubled its density and thus mass, nothing would happen to its orbit? Changes in its own axial rotation speed either wouldn't happen or wouldn't do anything to alter its solar orbit,
Scrub that. I've just realized that (I think) if the doubling of density was equal across the planet, there would be no effect on axial rotation because there is no unsettling of the original equilibrium within the theoretically isolated system.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69544

Post by Shatterface »

By coincidence I've just started Lisa Randall's Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs which suggests that the solar system passing through a dense disk of dark matter might have disturbed the orbit of a comet leading to a collision with the Earth and the extinction of the dinosaurs. It's more a pretext for discussing the interconnectedness of the sciences rather than a serious proposal but it's one example of how dark matter could have an influence on the planets.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69545

Post by free thoughtpolice »

I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
Some of them were. The various arabs that had migrated to the land of the Jooze and unfairly claimed ownership weren't especially because they sided with the Nazis.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69546

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

free thoughtpolice wrote:I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
Whereas SJWs are always on the whining side.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69547

Post by Shatterface »

MacGruberKnows wrote:Escape velocity means a ballistic (coasting) object can travel forever and there would never be enough gravitational potential energy to equal the kinetic energy at the moment the object began coasting even though gravitational potential energy would be increasing at all times and kinetic energy would be decreasing. This is because gravitational force decreases with the square of the distance between two object the integral used to calculate gravitation energy limits to a finite amount. An infinite distance between the two objects does not give an infinite amount of gravitational energy. So for any distance the object is from earth there is a finite escape velocity.

So if an object was flung off into space at 460 m/s from a mass that now equals 0, the gravitational potential energy would at all times be zero. Newton says for a mass' velocity to change an external force must affect it. That external force, the gravitational force from a non-existent earth is gone. The object will travel forever at 460 m/s unless other forces, like the sun, Jupiter and whatnot affect it.
If the Earth vanished then yes, it's mass would be zero, but you'd still be in the Sun's gravitational field and an initial velocity of 460 m/s isn't going to get you to Jupiter as the escape velocity of the Sun is about 42 km at this distance.

Anyway, the only reason I brought up the idea of Earth vanishing was to illustrate that an object of the mass of the Earth would travel in almost exactly the same orbit as an object the mass of a human being given that the mass of the sun is enormous in comparison to either.

MacGruberKnows
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69548

Post by MacGruberKnows »

Shatterface wrote:
Thanks. I'm on my phone so flipping between posting and calculating would be a pain in the arse, and I'd forgot I could use a ^ symbol for powers when I googled the equations.

I suspect dogen might quibble over 'centripetal force' being a 'pseudo-force' and refer to inertia instead.
Yes, as a former 100 level physics student I find the 200 level and above students to be quite snobby as well.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69549

Post by Shatterface »

Shatterface wrote:By coincidence I've just started Lisa Randall's Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs which suggests that the solar system passing through a dense disk of dark matter might have disturbed the orbit of a comet leading to a collision with the Earth and the extinction of the dinosaurs. It's more a pretext for discussing the interconnectedness of the sciences rather than a serious proposal but it's one example of how dark matter could have an influence on the planets.
This wasn't a double post.

It merely appears so because of gravitational lensing.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69550

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Shatterface wrote:
MacGruberKnows wrote:Escape velocity means a ballistic (coasting) object can travel forever and there would never be enough gravitational potential energy to equal the kinetic energy at the moment the object began coasting even though gravitational potential energy would be increasing at all times and kinetic energy would be decreasing. This is because gravitational force decreases with the square of the distance between two object the integral used to calculate gravitation energy limits to a finite amount. An infinite distance between the two objects does not give an infinite amount of gravitational energy. So for any distance the object is from earth there is a finite escape velocity.

So if an object was flung off into space at 460 m/s from a mass that now equals 0, the gravitational potential energy would at all times be zero. Newton says for a mass' velocity to change an external force must affect it. That external force, the gravitational force from a non-existent earth is gone. The object will travel forever at 460 m/s unless other forces, like the sun, Jupiter and whatnot affect it.
If the Earth vanished then yes, it's mass would be zero, but you'd still be in the Sun's gravitational field and an initial velocity of 460 m/s isn't going to get you to Jupiter as the escape velocity of the Sun is about 42 km at this distance.

Anyway, the only reason I brought up the idea of Earth vanishing was to illustrate that an object of the mass of the Earth would travel in almost exactly the same orbit as an object the mass of a human being given that the mass of the sun is enormous in comparison to either.
Getchya. So what would happen to all the man-made debris currently orbiting Earth? Would this continue orbiting the Sun along the Earth's path? Is there any friction in space which would slow it down and bring it into the Sun?

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69551

Post by Shatterface »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Thanks. I'm on my phone so flipping between posting and calculating would be a pain in the arse, and I'd forgot I could use a ^ symbol for powers when I googled the equations.

I suspect dogen might quibble over 'centripetal force' being a 'pseudo-force' and refer to inertia instead.
Yes, as a former 100 level physics student I find the 200 level and above students to be quite snobby as well.
My brother teaches physics. He wouldn't actually pull me up over 'centripetal force' but I still try to avoid it because he's a year younger and I refuse to let him think he's smarter :-)

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69552

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Shatterface wrote:
Shatterface wrote:By coincidence I've just started Lisa Randall's Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs which suggests that the solar system passing through a dense disk of dark matter might have disturbed the orbit of a comet leading to a collision with the Earth and the extinction of the dinosaurs. It's more a pretext for discussing the interconnectedness of the sciences rather than a serious proposal but it's one example of how dark matter could have an influence on the planets.
This wasn't a double post.

It merely appears so because of gravitational lensing.


I see what you did there.


http://i.imgur.com/mtEZkaJ.png

Lsuoma
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69553

Post by Lsuoma »

Shatterface wrote:
MacGruberKnows wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Thanks. I'm on my phone so flipping between posting and calculating would be a pain in the arse, and I'd forgot I could use a ^ symbol for powers when I googled the equations.

I suspect dogen might quibble over 'centripetal force' being a 'pseudo-force' and refer to inertia instead.
Yes, as a former 100 level physics student I find the 200 level and above students to be quite snobby as well.
My brother teaches physics. He wouldn't actually pull me up over 'centripetal force' but I still try to avoid it because he's a year younger and I refuse to let him think he's smarter :-)
Centipedal force:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 251bbc.jpg

Don't mess wi' 'em!

AndrewV69
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69554

Post by AndrewV69 »

Back in the day I upgraded all of my kids with their very own Intel 386 PC running DOS and repurposed their old boxen as gateways/servers.

I had two rules. That they would get their own box once they got close to 24 months old, and they were never to touch mine.

Today, If you have young kids this might be a solution to equipping them with their own personal computing devices without it costing a small fortune.

$89 Pinebook Linux Laptop Expected to Launch in February
The so-called Pinebook laptop will ship in two forms, both offering the same internal components while one has an 11.6-inch screen and the other a larger 14-inch panel. Inside you'll find a 64-bit quad-core ARM Cortex A53 processor running at 1.2GHz coupled with 2GB DDR3 RAM. Graphics will be handled by the embedded dual-core Mali 400 MP2 GPU, and storage, as with most cheap laptops, is limited to a 16GB eMMC flash drive. According to OMG!Ubuntu!, power is provided by a 10,000mAh LiPo battery and there will be two USB 2.0 ports, a MicroSD card slot, headphone jack, and mini HDMI out.
I would not worry about the OS being Linux. My kids I discovered, were like sponges in the way they sucked up and adapted to something new. Anything new. I believe most children are like that.

My children never had much in the way of formal instruction from me. Their introduction to the alphabet was my showing them the keyboard and what to type to invoke the various programs/games. Needless to say they taught themselves to read.

So the great thing about these laptops is that they are cheap. If they break it, it is not a disaster at all. And the inconvenience of waiting to get a new one may impart a valuable lesson.

Really?
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69555

Post by Really? »

rayshul wrote:So is it ISIS or is it a nutter.
Oh, that all depends on so many factors.

White male + ISIS + gun = white nationalist terrorist ISIS terrorist

Hispanic male + ISIS + gun = white nationalist terrorist terrorist

Black male + knife + captive = misguided youth

Muslim male + ISIS + gun = repressed homosexuality because of white hegemony

We need someone in their early twenties at Vox to make us a flowchart to understand who we should blame in these situations.

MacGruberKnows
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69556

Post by MacGruberKnows »

Really? wrote:
rayshul wrote:So is it ISIS or is it a nutter.
Oh, that all depends on so many factors.

White male + ISIS + gun = white nationalist terrorist ISIS terrorist

Hispanic male + ISIS + gun = white nationalist terrorist terrorist

Black male + knife + captive = misguided youth

Muslim male + ISIS + gun = repressed homosexuality because of white hegemony

We need someone in their early twenties at Vox to make us a flowchart to understand who we should blame in these situations.
The intersectionalities are intense.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69557

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Lsuoma wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
MacGruberKnows wrote:
Yes, as a former 100 level physics student I find the 200 level and above students to be quite snobby as well.
My brother teaches physics. He wouldn't actually pull me up over 'centripetal force' but I still try to avoid it because he's a year younger and I refuse to let him think he's smarter :-)
Centipedal force:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 251bbc.jpg

Don't mess wi' 'em!
:rimshot: :cry: :roll:

Is there a tag for "worst post evah"?

dogen
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69558

Post by dogen »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
If the Earth suddenly vanished beneath your feet I'm pretty sure you'd carry on in the same orbit around the sun even though you are far lighter than the Earth.
No way. I remember some equation involving G, M1, and M2, so the mass of both objects is important (Sun and Earth+me versus Sun and Me-Earth). If the Earth were suddenly removed from existence, I just believe (in a religious way, would be happy to have it explained that I am wrong) that I would go flying off on my current vector of rotational movement relative to the Earth. So I could be flung towards the Sun, away from it, or an infinity of directions in between.
Force of Gravity = (G * M1 * m2) / r^2 where G is some universal gravitational constant and M1 is mass of sun.

For a stable orbital system the gravitational force must equal the centripetal force of the orbiting mass: F = m * v^2 / r

So (G * M1 * m2) / r^2 = m2 * v^2 / r where m2 would be the earth in a Sun/Earth system.

Things cancel out and we get:

G * M1 / r = v^2

v = square root of( G * M1 / r)

or

r = G * M1 / v^2

So doubling an objects mass does not affect that objects orbit around another mass since it's mass increases it's centripetal force and it's gravitational force equally, so Mars' orbit around the sun would not be affected in a doubling of it's mass but that increase in mass would affect the orbit of it's moons. With the new mass of Mars the gravitational force would double while the Mars moons would still have the same centripetal force it had at equilibrium. Therefore, a net force of the moon towards Mars. It would fall towards Mars in an ever decreasing orbit.

If I missed something, sorry, my Physics 100/101 courses were a long time ago.
Pretty much correct.

dogen
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69559

Post by dogen »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: So if Mars suddenly doubled its density and thus mass, nothing would happen to its orbit? Changes in its own axial rotation speed either wouldn't happen or wouldn't do anything to alter its solar orbit, the orbital route would not change, and its speed along that orbital route would not change?

I find that frigging amazing. What if the sudden change was to 4 times its density/mass? 8 times? 1,000 times? At what point would a change do anything to its orbit?
Well, we need to be a bit more specific about the extra mass we're adding. Are we giving that extra mass the same velocity as Mars? If so, then nothing would happen to the orbit -- Mars would continue along as before. Things only change once the mass of Mars starts to approach the mass of the Sun -- then the orbital period would decrease, amongst other things.

dogen
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69560

Post by dogen »

Shatterface wrote:By coincidence I've just started Lisa Randall's Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs which suggests that the solar system passing through a dense disk of dark matter might have disturbed the orbit of a comet leading to a collision with the Earth and the extinction of the dinosaurs. It's more a pretext for discussing the interconnectedness of the sciences rather than a serious proposal but it's one example of how dark matter could have an influence on the planets.
I think the non-dark matter would have more of an effect on the Oort cloud -- dark matter tends not to be concentrated in a disk, as the non-dark matter is.

dogen
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69561

Post by dogen »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Shatterface wrote:
Thanks. I'm on my phone so flipping between posting and calculating would be a pain in the arse, and I'd forgot I could use a ^ symbol for powers when I googled the equations.

I suspect dogen might quibble over 'centripetal force' being a 'pseudo-force' and refer to inertia instead.
Yes, as a former 100 level physics student I find the 200 level and above students to be quite snobby as well.
Centripetal force is a real thing -- it's the force that causes a body to travel in a circular orbit. Centrifugal force is the one that's the pseudo-force.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/centrifugal_force.png

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69562

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

I still don't understand dark matter at all. Unless it's what happens after I eat Mexican food.

paddybrown
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69563

Post by paddybrown »

Mmm, these crayons are tasty.

Oglebart
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Oglebart »

Shatterface wrote:An orbit is basically falling but missing the Earth/Mars/Sun.

It is a matter of acceleration.

A feather would fall at the same rate as a canonball if it wasn't for wind resistance so I think orbits would be the same: a more massive object would have the same acceleration as a less massive object.
This illustrates it wonderfully if you've not seen it before. I love this clip.

[youtube][/youtube]

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69565

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Brian Cox visits the world's biggest vacuum chamber?

Hadn't realised he had visited The Obit?

;)

Hunt
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69566

Post by Hunt »

It always amazes me to learn of these bizarre sci fi like facilities that nobody ever hears about.

There's also this place, featured in Werner Herzog's Lo and Behold documentary about Internet History:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/07/ ... can-story/

He also documents some of the (I would say) nuts who have moved there because they suffer from "EMF sensitivity":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroma ... ensitivity

The problem is that eventually they'll probably shutdown the facility, at which time there will be all these people whose heads will explode when developers don't want a wifi-free zone. Or, they'll get over it.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69567

Post by feathers »

free thoughtpolice wrote:CNN has been reporting that the shooter had voluntarily checked in to a mental health facility recently. Watch the baboons for fury about smearing mentally ill people because of the actions of testosterone poisoning in a privileged cis het white male.
No, because testosterone totally doesn't cause aggression, remember? Ask PZ Myers.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69568

Post by feathers »

katamari Damassi wrote:Question for our resident physicists: suppose you had a device that could make dark matter "sticky". You place a bunch of these around the core of Mars. You turn on the machines and any dark matter passing through their fields, accumulates. After many years once the gravity of the planet has doubled, you shut them off. What are the effects on the planet's orbit? What happens to its moons?
It will come over and usurp Earth, because Dark Matter Lives!

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69569

Post by feathers »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Is there a tag for "worst post evah"?
No, but we can repay in kind by posting That Other Centipede.

http://az795576.vo.msecnd.net/bh-upload ... 50x591.jpg

Phil_Giordana_FCD
That's All Folks
That's All Folks
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Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69570

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Pitchguest wrote:As many of you guys know, my dad has terminal cancer. Here's an update if you're interested. After his chemo had finished, he received a report that said there had been a "significant shortage of cancerous growth." That was eight months ago.

A few weeks back, just before Christmas, he got word of another check-up and this morning he got a paper back... It was positive! There had been additional reduction!

Basically, late though it is, this was the Christmas present I needed. Happy New Year!
This is marvelous news! Happy New Year, Pitch.

JayTeeAitch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69571

Post by JayTeeAitch »

Hunt wrote:It always amazes me to learn of these bizarre sci fi like facilities that nobody ever hears about.

There's also this place, featured in Werner Herzog's Lo and Behold documentary about Internet History:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2015/07/ ... can-story/

He also documents some of the (I would say) nuts who have moved there because they suffer from "EMF sensitivity":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroma ... ensitivity

The problem is that eventually they'll probably shutdown the facility, at which time there will be all these people whose heads will explode when developers don't want a wifi-free zone. Or, they'll get over it.
Here's another one for ya

https://glamox.com/upload/2013/03/22/re ... bard_2.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_ ... Seed_Vault

Sunder
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69572

Post by Sunder »

feathers wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Is there a tag for "worst post evah"?
No, but we can repay in kind by posting That Other Centipede.

http://az795576.vo.msecnd.net/bh-upload ... 50x591.jpg
Patheos
FTB
The Orbit

In that order.

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69573

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:And if Jews wanted their own country after the Nazis had been dealt with in Europe, why the hell would you pick a place surrounded by the only people left who want to kill you?
Because their religion says that the land is the Holy Land. While christianity tells christians that it's also the Holy Land. And of course Mohammed also had to mark the territory by writing that he took a magical horse to Jerusalem (or so many think: it's actually not very clear in the Koran), because fuck you, he was the new boss in town.

Outside of religious dick-measuring contexts the land isn't incredibly valuable. In 1948 the Jews had no right to be there, and the establishment of a Jewish state there was a mistake. If they really wanted land reparations it would have made more sense to ask for a slice of Germany. Maybe Silesia and Pomerania, since the Jerries had already been forced to leave them and they were pretty rich and valuable (more than that strip of land between the Jordan river and the sea anyway). It wouldn't have been easy and it would have led to tensions with the Poles, the Germans and the Soviets but at least they would have had a point.

"You killed my people now give me land" might not be a sound principle of international law but at least it's better than "give me this land where people who had pretty much nothing to do with what we suffered live, because my religion says it's sacred".

Today the situation is more complicated, and let's leave it at that.

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69574

Post by Kirbmarc »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
Some of them were. The various arabs that had migrated to the land of the Jooze and unfairly claimed ownership weren't especially because they sided with the Nazis.
The thing is that it hadn't been the land of Ze Jewz at the time for centuries. Roma were also killed in droves by the Nazis. They had the exact same right of the Jews to ask for reparations, but nobody even thought of giving them their ancestral lands in India.

Zionism was a religious/political ideas that had been floating around in Jewish circles since the latter half of the 19th century, but before WWI and the Balfour Declaration few people thought that it was a feasible idea. Most Zionists were young activists with more dreams than plans. There wasn't even complete agreement on going back to the "Holy Land": some people in 1903 thought of Uganda, but it wasn't such a good idea, either (too many lions, for a start).

After 1917 the Brits started to let Jews back in "that land", buying land from rich landowners and leaving poor Arabs in the area landless. There were riots an the Brits thought about closing the gates, and they eventually did so in the Thirties. It was only after WWII that Zionism was supported by the UN, who sought a compromise by dividing "the land" in three parts (Jewish part, Arab part, neutral Jerusalem because every religious nutter loves that city and really wants to take a crap next to some holy rocks).

The Arabs didn't like it, attacked, got their asses kicked and the Palestinian Arabs got the short end of the stick. And so there was a Steersman-esque "population transfer" of Arabs out of what become Israel and of Jews out of Arab countries. It didn't go as well as most expected, since there were others wars, riots, insurrections, and general mayhem.

Israel is almost 70 years old now, so there's at least two generations of Jews born there and who haven't lived elsewhere, while many whose fathers or grandfathers were exiled from "the land" still consider themselves Palestianians, while other live in areas which Israel occupied more recently and some Jews throw people out on a regular basis. There's no end in sight to the conflict and I don't think that there'll be one in the near future, we'll probably have another 70 years of conflicts, riots and general mayhem.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69575

Post by Brive1987 »

Our public broadcaster (ABC) is a left leaning cunt like institution.

It studiously ignored the Islamic underpinnings to Berlin and even Istanbul. In best SJ fashion.

But get an opportunity for a jab against America and especially American military .....






(Appreciate a "link-around" if possible)

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69576

Post by Brive1987 »

VickyCaramel wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Who would object to a situation like that?
Some one that tried to exterminate the people they hated and lost the war?
I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... xUD4qDj0IA

Keating
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69577

Post by Keating »

Brive1987 wrote:Our public broadcaster (ABC) is a left leaning cunt like institution.

It studiously ignored the Islamic underpinnings to Berlin and even Istanbul. In best SJ fashion.

But get an opportunity for a jab against America and especially American military .....


[youtube][/youtube]



(Appreciate a "link-around" if possible)

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69578

Post by VickyCaramel »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
Some of them were. The various arabs that had migrated to the land of the Jooze and unfairly claimed ownership weren't especially because they sided with the Nazis.
Oh, you are one of those loonies that believes that Arabs were recent immigrants and there is no such thing as "Palestinians".
There are Turkish and British census which prove otherwise. I already told you, if you get your information from zionist propaganda, then everything you think you know is wrong.

No Arabs sided with the Nazis, although Nazis sided with a few Arab Nationalists in much the same way the allies supported European communists, And then there are the Tunisian Nationalists who are Arabized-Berbers and not strictly Arabs, but that Arab Legion was set up by the Brandenburgers not the SS. As you will remember, Rommel didn't like Nazis, it is rather traditional to think of the Afrika Korps and the D.A.K. as Wehrmacht and not taint them with the stink of fascism.

But do go on, I would love to know what else you learned from the Glenn Beck school of Middle East Studies.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_APkNiTdkOp4/ ... dhorse.gif

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69579

Post by VickyCaramel »

Brive1987 wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote: I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... xUD4qDj0IA
Overwhelming evidence.

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ger ... ?s=594x594

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Brive1987 »

Just reading a very interesting book "combat and Genercide on the Eastern Front: the German Infantry's War 1941-1944". I doubt such a clear dichotomy between Wehrmacht and Nazi can be drawn.

Re the Arabs. My working assumption is that when you repeatedly sally forth to war and get your arse handed to you - well bad things happen. Not least of which is the inability to dictate the peace.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69581

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote: I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
[.img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... xUD4qDj0IA[/img]
Overwhelming evidence.

[.img]http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ger ... ?s=594x594[/img]
Religious leaders love fascism, and muslims are no different from christians in this respect.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69582

Post by Brive1987 »

oh so now your statement about "winning Muslims" is nuanced eh? ;)

BarnOwl
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69583

Post by BarnOwl »

pro-boxing-fan wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Watson is under the delusion her gaming is a job complete with sick leave. A job moreover people give a shit about.

http://i.imgur.com/9ziyMMs.jpg


She's not even a Twitch partner and has under 500 Twitch followers. She's basically taking a sick day from the street corner where she often panhandle.
Nonsense. Watson is far too lazy to panhandle.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69584

Post by Brive1987 »

"Genocide". Dammit.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Brive1987 »

Can you make a dime from twitch? Or is it basic narcissism?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69586

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote:Just reading a very interesting book "combat and Genercide on the Eastern Front: the German Infantry's War 1941-1944". I doubt such a clear dichotomy between Wehrmacht and Nazi can be drawn.
On the Eastern Front? Little to no difference, it was a total war of extermination. In Africa? That's another story. Rommel played it more or less by the book. Rommel was a complex figure. He never joined the Nazi Party, but he seemed to be fond of Hitler as a person until 1942 (i.e. when Germany was kicking ass and taking names) and not to speak ill of the regime until 1944 (when everyone could see that Germany wasn't going to win).

He loved Germany but wasn't a politician, he was first and foremost a soldier. He refused to execute Jewish POWs. He protested against atrocities towards civilians. He wasn't the hero or saint that some thought him to be, but he was a good general who cared about winning not about extermination.
Re the Arabs. My working assumption is that when you repeatedly sally forth to war and get your arse handed to you - well bad things happen. Not least of which is the inability to dictate the peace.
On a pragmatic level you're absolutely right, but this is just "might makes right", not very morally upstanding and not a good solution for long-term problems.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69587

Post by Brive1987 »

Well, stopping artillery from firing across your country into the Mediterranean seems like a good place to start. The West Bank makes for a nice little buffer .... no?

....

Africa Korps was a piss in the ocean (2 pz 1 light Divs). The dichotomy was drawn between DAK as part of the wider Wehrmacht and the Nazi state.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69588

Post by VickyCaramel »

Brive1987 wrote:oh so now your statement about "winning Muslims" is nuanced eh? ;)
I think if you had ready anything I have written over the last two pages, then yes.
But it rather depends if you are discussing Arabs or Muslims. You showed a picture of Amin al-Husseini inspecting troops who were Bosnian, Croatian, German... most of them had been wounded on the Russian front and been drafted into this regiment while they were recovering. Even then the regiment never got up to strength. It was purely done for propaganda.

Due to the Arab revolt, Britain avoided recruiting Palestinian Muslims... they also avoided recruiting Jews. But there were already Palestinians in the Palestinian Rifles, The Frontier Force, the Trans-Jordanian Frontier Force and the Arab Legion, some of whom fought against the Iraqi uprising.
The Indian army and our various West African and East African units were full of Muslims. And of course the allies inherited French colonial regiments who were considered more loyal than many French overseas units, and we instrumental in the Italian campaign. (The germans were terrified of the Moroccans who they called The Ghosts).

As I already mentioned, Egypt and Turkey were non-belligerent but were in fact working as double-agents for the Allies, Turkey was especially helpful in this respect, providing much of our intelligence from the Aegean while using aircraft they begged from the Germans.

Germany supported Nationalist movements in Iraq and Iran, but that didn't come to anything. They started propagandizing the Arabs in their sphere of influence early, but it was a difficult situation. They knew the Libyans hated the Italians and the Tunisians weren't keen on them either. They knew that Fascism wouldn't particularly appeal to the North Africans other than the Nationalist part, and they didn't want to upset either the Italians or the Vichy French. When later the opportunity arose, they wanted to exploit Tunisian Nationalism, but they were aware that most Arabs took the view that the was a European matter, and that the Tunisians were poor, they would be happy to put on a uniform and take the money but would disappear when the first shot was fired. Instead they let the Tunisian Nationalists set up their own army and do the recruiting. The Tunisians separated the recruits into three bands, a third were used digging trenches and building roads, another third were put to work manning coastal observation posts and batteries, and AA batteries in the cities where they wouldn't be directly under fire. The final third were the committed Tunisian Nationalists who were trained as panzergrenadiers and assigned to a Tiger Battalion. However they were decimated by the Desert Airforce before they ever saw action.

So if you are looking for Muslims who actually fought for the Nazis and bought into the ideology, you are limited to Eastern Europeans.

To put things in perspective, something like 500,000-600,000 Muslims fought for the Allies. Probably no more than 15,000 Arabs actually picked up a rifle rather than a shovel for the Germans (excluding Italian colonial troops). By contrast, 50,000 Dutch and 40,000 Belgians fought for the SS.

So any attempt to paint the Arabs or Muslims as Nazis doesn't really hold up, and where they were fighting on the other side, the motives tend to be anti-colonial, Nationalist or Sectarian rather than any ideological hard-on for Fascism. But as you can understand, there is a serious effort from some quarters to link Islam and Fascism.

And aside from all that, for anyone taking a grown-up view of history, being a Nazi before or during the war is not such a sin.

Bhurzum
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69589

Post by Bhurzum »

Brive1987 wrote:Can you make a dime from twitch? Or is it basic narcissism?
You can make a fuck-ton of filthy lucre providing you tick the correct boxes. The most annoying subset of the twitch community are the "camwhore" users. To qualify as a camwhore, you need to hit the following targets:

1) Female
2) Skimpy clothing (usually with tits hanging out)
3) Be utterly garbage at the game you're supposed to be playing

(it also helps cement your rep as a camwhore if the game-play window is the size of a postage stamp)

Tick those boxes, be active and the loot will flow in.

[youtube][/youtube]

However, trolling the dumb cunts can be highly amusing.

[youtube][/youtube]

Hunt
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69590

Post by Hunt »

Bhurzum wrote: 1) Female
2) Skimpy clothing (usually with tits hanging out)
3) Be utterly garbage at the game you're supposed to be playing
Crap, missed it by one point. Well, two outta three ain't bad.

Oglebart
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69591

Post by Oglebart »

feathers wrote:
katamari Damassi wrote:Question for our resident physicists: suppose you had a device that could make dark matter "sticky". You place a bunch of these around the core of Mars. You turn on the machines and any dark matter passing through their fields, accumulates. After many years once the gravity of the planet has doubled, you shut them off. What are the effects on the planet's orbit? What happens to its moons?
It will come over and usurp Earth, because Dark Matter Lives!
Don't you mean Dark Lives Matter? Amirite brother?

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69592

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:So any attempt to paint the Arabs or Muslims as Nazis doesn't really hold up, and where they were fighting on the other side, the motives tend to be anti-colonial, Nationalist or Sectarian rather than any ideological hard-on for Fascism. But as you can understand, there is a serious effort from some quarters to link Islam and Fascism.
There was some link between islam and what many call "fascism" (which is a catch-all word for all right-wing authoritarian movements), but it's the usual love of local religious figures for strong local authority figures who let them do their bidding (by marginalizing/ostracizing/eventually killing the outcasts), not the "let's exterminate everyone we don't like" project associated with totalitarianism (nazism, communism, etc.). It was more of a Franco or Pinochet-style fascism than a Hitler-style. Iran falls in this category.

The "islamo-nazism" of these days is a later invention, largely due to the spread of Salafism, and for a certain time it was more along the lines of "let's make Islam great again by killing the unbelievers and those who aren't pious enough" than about "and then conquer the world and do the same to anyone else we disagree with". It's getting worse and worse right now, to the point that previous extremists look like they were moderates (even though they really, really weren't and still aren't).

Oglebart
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69593

Post by Oglebart »

Kirbmarc wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
I think it's fair to say that Muslims were on the winning side.
Some of them were. The various arabs that had migrated to the land of the Jooze and unfairly claimed ownership weren't especially because they sided with the Nazis.
The thing is that it hadn't been the land of Ze Jewz at the time for centuries. Roma were also killed in droves by the Nazis. They had the exact same right of the Jews to ask for reparations, but nobody even thought of giving them their ancestral lands in India.

Zionism was a religious/political ideas that had been floating around in Jewish circles since the latter half of the 19th century, but before WWI and the Balfour Declaration few people thought that it was a feasible idea. Most Zionists were young activists with more dreams than plans. There wasn't even complete agreement on going back to the "Holy Land": some people in 1903 thought of Uganda, but it wasn't such a good idea, either (too many lions, for a start).

After 1917 the Brits started to let Jews back in "that land", buying land from rich landowners and leaving poor Arabs in the area landless. There were riots an the Brits thought about closing the gates, and they eventually did so in the Thirties. It was only after WWII that Zionism was supported by the UN, who sought a compromise by dividing "the land" in three parts (Jewish part, Arab part, neutral Jerusalem because every religious nutter loves that city and really wants to take a crap next to some holy rocks).

The Arabs didn't like it, attacked, got their asses kicked and the Palestinian Arabs got the short end of the stick. And so there was a Steersman-esque "population transfer" of Arabs out of what become Israel and of Jews out of Arab countries. It didn't go as well as most expected, since there were others wars, riots, insurrections, and general mayhem.

Israel is almost 70 years old now, so there's at least two generations of Jews born there and who haven't lived elsewhere, while many whose fathers or grandfathers were exiled from "the land" still consider themselves Palestianians, while other live in areas which Israel occupied more recently and some Jews throw people out on a regular basis. There's no end in sight to the conflict and I don't think that there'll be one in the near future, we'll probably have another 70 years of conflicts, riots and general mayhem.
Cue Nina Paley in 3,2,1......

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69594

Post by Kirbmarc »

Oglebart wrote:
feathers wrote:
katamari Damassi wrote:Question for our resident physicists: suppose you had a device that could make dark matter "sticky". You place a bunch of these around the core of Mars. You turn on the machines and any dark matter passing through their fields, accumulates. After many years once the gravity of the planet has doubled, you shut them off. What are the effects on the planet's orbit? What happens to its moons?
It will come over and usurp Earth, because Dark Matter Lives!
Don't you mean Dark Lives Matter? Amirite brother?
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/fol ... 194969.jpg

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69595

Post by deLurch »

AndrewV69 wrote:Back in the day I upgraded all of my kids with their very own Intel 386 PC running DOS and repurposed their old boxen as gateways/servers.

I had two rules. That they would get their own box once they got close to 24 months old, and they were never to touch mine.

Today, If you have young kids this might be a solution to equipping them with their own personal computing devices without it costing a small fortune.

$89 Pinebook Linux Laptop Expected to Launch in February
The so-called Pinebook laptop will ship in two forms, both offering the same internal components while one has an 11.6-inch screen and the other a larger 14-inch panel. Inside you'll find a 64-bit quad-core ARM Cortex A53 processor running at 1.2GHz coupled with 2GB DDR3 RAM. Graphics will be handled by the embedded dual-core Mali 400 MP2 GPU, and storage, as with most cheap laptops, is limited to a 16GB eMMC flash drive. According to OMG!Ubuntu!, power is provided by a 10,000mAh LiPo battery and there will be two USB 2.0 ports, a MicroSD card slot, headphone jack, and mini HDMI out.
I would not worry about the OS being Linux. My kids I discovered, were like sponges in the way they sucked up and adapted to something new. Anything new. I believe most children are like that.

My children never had much in the way of formal instruction from me. Their introduction to the alphabet was my showing them the keyboard and what to type to invoke the various programs/games. Needless to say they taught themselves to read.

So the great thing about these laptops is that they are cheap. If they break it, it is not a disaster at all. And the inconvenience of waiting to get a new one may impart a valuable lesson.
I have heard that the chips on those pineboxes are horribly slow. So the usability of those pinesboxes will probably come down to the skill of the people who selected the OS & software that runs on it. I would wait for reviews.

I picked up a cheap $120 linux laptop to play with. It has for the most part been a brick after my initial exploration.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69596

Post by MarcusAu »

For $120 you can build yourself a pi-top:

http://makezine.com/projects/build-rasp ... ur-pocket/

BarnOwl
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69597

Post by BarnOwl »

Hahaha, the twitch rage video is hilarious!

Maybe someone else needs to be told to stay in the kitchen to wash dishes and make sammiches ... :twatson: :shifty:

ERV
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69598

Post by ERV »

Brive1987 wrote:Can you make a dime from twitch? Or is it basic narcissism?
Lots of people do, but I dont think Watson can.

To make the cash you need to be partner. To be partner you need 1) continual popularity (500 viewers/vid, at the same time, not just an accumulation of 500 followers that could be fake accounts), 2) consistency, at least 3 streams/week. And even if you make partner, you still have to work to get the viewers/subscribers/ads/etc.

Watson has bumps in attention, and bursts of productivity, but she has never kept up with any online 'job', even those with lower expectations.

I suspect she is only trying because she has realized games are a wonderful escape from her shitty life, and shes trying to leech off her new BFFles , Paramore.

BarnOwl
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69599

Post by BarnOwl »

Well, fellow 'Pitters, as it turns out, I don't have osteoarthritis because I'm a runner - I have a running injury because I have osteoarthritis. Yup, X-rays revealed osteoarthritis in both hip joints and both sacroiliac joints. Fortunately not severe, and the preferred treatment is physical therapy, so I have sessions twice a week for the next month at least. Also have stretching and strengthening exercises to do twice a day for ... the rest of my life probably. Not telling most people in my life, though, because they're all going to come up with reasons that are my fault somehow. But I have none of the lifestyle risk factors for hip OA, and it's most likely due to some structural defect at the joints. My hip flexibility has always been poor, even when I was a kid (e.g. could never sit cross-legged comfortably for very long). Several years of Iyengar yoga practice didn't help my hip flexibility much at all.

I'm off to the bicycle shop this morning to get a trainer for my road bike, so I can use it indoors every day - it actually feels good to pedal on a stationary bike (which is what I do to warm up for PT). I won't be able to run for another few weeks, but it's not off the table yet. I can also exercise by swimming, of course. So yeah, I guess my goal for 2017 will be to learn to adapt to this.

ERV
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#69600

Post by ERV »

:(

I got myself a rower for Christmas! Amazon deal-of-the-day for like $200. Love it!

Or would that movement still suck for your hips?

Locked