The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59821

Post by Brive1987 »

Kirbmarc wrote:By the way the statement about the muslim ban has disappeared from Trump's website.

I think that Trump is going to tighten immigration but never speak of that blanket muslim ban again.
Wasn't that a reaction to Nice?

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59822

Post by Cnutella »

Brive1987 wrote:I've gotta say. In the eye of the storm (ie pre inauguration) it's hard to get too much of this national SJ bitch slap. It's like the whole country has trolled the dears to an inch of their lives. I mean for fucks sake - we have metrosexual hipsters literally rioting thru their tears.

:lol: :lol: :popcorn:
I know what you mean... Even if 9 months from now I'm trying to plough frozen fields with my bare hands, the disbelief and uncomprehending rage of the SJW as the massive overpressure of reality collapsed the walls of their safe spaces will be a memory that will keep me warm.

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59823

Post by Cnutella »

I love that a few try-hard members of the horde are persisting with the whole Drumpf thing.

That's President Drumpf to you.

Also, there was this...
What were we suppose do? Were we supposed to placate them by stopping social progress? Were we supposed to ban abortion, keep LGBTQs in the closet, and teach Creationism in public schools just to make the backward happy? Were we to make sure those scary brown-skinned people acted, dressed, and sang those quant negro spirituals as the rural whites expect them to? Were we to continue to embrace a culture of authoritarian religion even though the very concept of theism is a ridiculous superstition that has absolutely no place in the 21st Century?

It’s not our fault that we arrogant urban elites want to have an actual civilization while the redneck shit-kickers (Awwwww, did I make fun of them? Maybe white conservatives need to stop being so “hypersensitive” and “politically correct?”) want to wallow in an idea of America that never was and should never become. I refuse to let the willfully stupid and unquestionably bigoted to be a millstone around our necks.

So fuck the rednecks, fuck Trump, and fuck David Wong!
So, learning from mistakes not looking like it's on the cards, then?

I haven't seen much introspection from the left yet. I am curious to know whether this hidden revolution was based more on falling living standards and economic fears, or an attack on cronyism and beltway insider politics, or on a cultural pushback from people fed up of every other perspective and worldview being advanced except theirs. I wonder whether there was a dominant issue?

I liked Michael Moore's concept of Trouble votes as a cultural Molotov, but I'm a bit suspicious of Michael Moore and how in touch he is with rust belt America these days.

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59824

Post by Brive1987 »

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 29-h278-nc

Aides throughout the ballroom were sobbing during Clinton's remarks. Quiet moments in the speech were filled with tears, sniffles and some sobs. Clinton's top aides, seated in the front row, were almost all crying.

Robby Mook, Clinton's campaign manager, was wiping away tears. Nick Merrill, Clinton's traveling press secretary, was weeping.

The most somber moment in Clinton's speech was when she specifically noted her impact to women and girls.

"To all the women and especially the young women who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion," Clinton said, her voice breaking with emotion.

There were audible cries -- and some sobs -- throughout the room.

Bill Clinton, while working the ropeline, wiped away tears.

Huma Abedin cried during the speech but kept a stoic face during much of the ropeline.

feathers
.
.
Posts: 6113
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59825

Post by feathers »

Tigzy wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Here's 153 salty tear filled posts from PZ's horde on his damn you post.

Everything from despair to calls for armed revolt. It's like the gnashing of teeth in the seventh circle of hell.

If only Briue1987 could offer them some comfort.

http://archive.is/1Ipdd
Ye gods, but I think Giliell is just about to pop, isn't she?
You know it's bad when the others start sounding reasonable in comparison.

AndrewV69
.
.
Posts: 8146
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59826

Post by AndrewV69 »

Brive1987 wrote:https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 29-h278-nc

Aides throughout the ballroom were sobbing during Clinton's remarks. Quiet moments in the speech were filled with tears, sniffles and some sobs. Clinton's top aides, seated in the front row, were almost all crying.

Robby Mook, Clinton's campaign manager, was wiping away tears. Nick Merrill, Clinton's traveling press secretary, was weeping.

The most somber moment in Clinton's speech was when she specifically noted her impact to women and girls.

"To all the women and especially the young women who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion," Clinton said, her voice breaking with emotion.

There were audible cries -- and some sobs -- throughout the room.

Bill Clinton, while working the ropeline, wiped away tears.

Huma Abedin cried during the speech but kept a stoic face during much of the ropeline.
LMAO!

When young Trudeau got elected I laughed and laughed for a week strait because we had elected a haid of hair. Now the USA has trumped that, I suspect that it is going to be a month before I can settle down to just the occasional giggle.

Welp, thas just me and my quaint sense of humour. Carry on.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59827

Post by Kirbmarc »

What were we suppose do? Were we supposed to placate them by stopping social progress? Were we supposed to ban abortion, keep LGBTQs in the closet, and teach Creationism in public schools just to make the backward happy? Were we to make sure those scary brown-skinned people acted, dressed, and sang those quant negro spirituals as the rural whites expect them to? Were we to continue to embrace a culture of authoritarian religion even though the very concept of theism is a ridiculous superstition that has absolutely no place in the 21st Century?

It’s not our fault that we arrogant urban elites want to have an actual civilization while the redneck shit-kickers (Awwwww, did I make fun of them? Maybe white conservatives need to stop being so “hypersensitive” and “politically correct?”) want to wallow in an idea of America that never was and should never become. I refuse to let the willfully stupid and unquestionably bigoted to be a millstone around our necks.

So fuck the rednecks, fuck Trump, and fuck David Wong!
Yeah, that's a great attitude to have, very likely to win friends and influence people.

What were leftists supposed to do? Maybe focus more on working class issues like jobs and safety? Or stop propagating bullshit like 29 genders or the 1 in 5 and 77 cents for a dollar canards? Maybe re-frame the issues around rape and sexual assault or around crime in a slightly more rational way, by repudiating at least the excesses of po-mo Critical Race Theory (since repudiating Critical Race Theory as a whole is probably way too hard without an overhaul of the school system)? Maybe stop saying that everything is racist, sexist and problematic, thus diminishing the impact of those words? Maybe stop saying things like "retarding is an ableist slur that kills people" or "flounce is a homophobic slur"?

(By the way nice way of showing that SJWs can be racist towards people they don't like...top kek).

Marriage equality is mostly a done thing, sure there are cunts who are against it but they're the minority now, and while they're still dangerous I don't think that Trump is going to focus on it. Abortion has been legal for decades, religious numbnuts have tried to ban it countless times to no avail, even Dubya didn't. Creationism has fallen out of fashion and stomped out by courts as a violation of separation of church and state. Will Number Two-Pence try to sneak it into the education system in some way? Maybe, but I think he'll be challenged a lot for it.

Is there room and need for a secularist movement (possibly open to non-believers and secular believers alike this time) which acts as a watchdog over those issues? Sure, but first the SJW movement needs to tone it down. We need to have an adult discussion about the issues of race, gender and economics, not the usual shrieking contest of po-mo slogans and memes.

A Trump presidency won't be great. It probably won't be good, either, and it's likely to be pretty bad on secularism (mostly because of Pence) and pretty stupid on some other issues (Trump ain't that bright, let's face it). But the defeat of Hillary "look at me, I'm so progressive and shit" Clinton is a chance for the left to think about its mistakes and grow and learn from them. First leftists need to accept that they're not a perfect beacon of reason and good will in a world of craziness and evil, that Clinton made some mistakes and that not all Trump voters are either retards or KKK members.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3858
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59828

Post by Sunder »

If you're not willing to try to win the working class vote, then Dems lose for the forseeable future. Period. If you stupid fucks at FTB want to wallow in misery and bitch about how everyone not on your side should just go fuck themselves, then get used to losing. YOU are the millstone around the neck of liberalism. The sooner YOU fuck off, the sooner liberals can start winning again.

paddybrown
.
.
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59829

Post by paddybrown »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Yes, you could imagine how much sympathy they'd have for the rest belt factory workers if the shoe was on the other foot.
Zero. If they're white and voted for Trump they're The Enemy and don't deserve to live: they're stupid, evil, gross, etc.

I have to say that I've been very disappointed in the American Left so far (aside from the Greenwald surprise). All kinds of usually clever, witty people are simply repeating how disgusting Trump is and how his supporters are all racists and sexist pigs, just like the Hordelets. Even Aaron Sorkin, usually one of my favorite writers, has chipped in with some platitudes about "fighting back against racism" and about Trump being the candidate of white supremacists and the KKK. FFS man, you wrote The West Wing, where Republicans weren't demonized and actually often sounded reasonable, you're a brilliant screenwriter who writes compelling, three dimensional characters with shades of grey, and all you can say about Trump is that he's the New Hitler and a buffoon and America has to fight back, with no soul-searching about why Clinton lost.

Trump is bad, we get that. He was never shy about showing that he doesn't care about being called a racist. He is a boor, often an idiot, and supported by many unsavory people. I don't think he's as bad as he's acted in the campaign, but yeah, he's no champion of civil rights. The Muslim ban thing was pretty terrible (even though I don't think he'll push for it in the end). But he won after people supported Obama twice. He won in a society were racism is seen as evil by pretty much everyone. Maybe, just maybe, he won for a reason that wasn't that white people who didn't vote for Clinton are evil, stupid, gullible or cowards.
Trump ran on a clear, simple programme: restrict immigration and put tariffs on imports to protect American jobs. Whether that is achievable or will work remains to be seen, but it's something a lot of people could get behind, even if they think the man's a prick personally.

If Clinton had a policy programme, it was kind of vague, and she seemed to concentrate far more on what she wanted to be - the first girl president - than what she wanted to do. Her campaign was all about personality, and while Trump is easy to attack on personality grounds, it backfired because she doesn't have a very appealing personality herself. The "basket of deplorables" remark was a major misstep - you'll never win votes by insulting the electorate.

InfraRedBucket
.
.
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59830

Post by InfraRedBucket »

Brive1987 wrote:
Betcha its Wordpress. Last refuge of the scoundrel.
Drupal, actually.

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59831

Post by Brive1987 »

Smartarse.

Just as bad. Hipster CMS.

;)

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59832

Post by Hunt »

Kirbmarc wrote: A Trump presidency won't be great. It probably won't be good, either,
More than likely the Trump presidency will seem exactly like GW Bush's third term. Hillary was right about it being trumped up trickle down. Trump has no discernible new ideas. He's going to rebuild the infrastructure. So perhaps the economy will boom on low pay construction jobs? Reminder to trump: this isn't 1934 anymore. You don't build a modern economy by building a bunch of dams and public works. And where will the money come from? Taxes? Pffft. Perhaps he thinks the wall to keep low wage Mexicans out will be paid for by Mexico and built by Americans. Sounds lovely. More shitty jobs for Merkans, hoorah. And all those companies that moved offshore to get low wage labor? They kind of like it that way. Are you willing to underbid them on labor costs? Sure you are. More min wage American jobs. Hint: Americans are too fat to work assembly line these days anyway. Again, this isn't 1934.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59833

Post by Kirbmarc »

Sunder wrote:If you're not willing to try to win the working class vote, then Dems lose for the forseeable future. Period. If you stupid fucks at FTB want to wallow in misery and bitch about how everyone not on your side should just go fuck themselves, then get used to losing. YOU are the millstone around the neck of liberalism. The sooner YOU fuck off, the sooner liberals can start winning again.
If Republicans tone slightly down the religious extremism (by accepting marriage equality and coming to some sort of compromise on abortion) then they'll get the vote of even more moderates and independents. If they tone down some of their race issues and instead frame their problems with social ills as generic problems with crime and illegal immigration, while they'll accept that it's time to move on from the war on drugs they'll get even the votes of a significant number (probably even the majority) of non-white votes.

Trump isn't massively religious, he's isn't incredibly anti-LGBT and anti-abortion. He doesn't seem big on the war on drugs. He already removed the muslim ban from his website, maybe he can retool the "wall" into a less insane idea, too. If he keeps Pence restrained as a household pet (the way Obama kept Biden as a dumb dog on a leash) he can get the Reps to gradually move on and turn into a more modern conservative-law and order-fiscal conservative-slightly religious party. At least one can hope. I try to be as positive as I can, although I'm pretty sure he won't be as good as his followers think or as bad as many who don't like him think.

If the Dems stick with the SJW program they'll soon alienate anyone but college students who have studied SJW theory. They need to ditch the Clinton-enforced "SJW glam style" and go back to the leftist basis: against big businesses and corporate interest, pro blue-collar workers, pro-manufacting, pro-freedom of speech, pro-secularism and pro-science. Then they can build a reasonable and modern progressive-labour party. At least one can hope.

Aneris
.
.
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:36 am
Location: /°\

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59834

Post by Aneris »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Betcha its Wordpress. Last refuge of the scoundrel.
Drupal, actually.
Is Drupal a disaster, too?


Tribble
.
.
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:34 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59835

Post by Tribble »

John D wrote:Wow - my wife works in the grade school here in an affluent Detroit suburb.

A bunch of teachers called in sick today because of the election. Another bunch of teachers were openly crying at the school during their work hours.

The kids were crying because they thought Trump was a bully and everyone was gonna be a bully.

Of course, since I am an ass hole, I laughed. My wife got mad at me and sad this was serious and that this was upsetting the kids. My reply is that if any kids are upset by this in grade school then this is due to bad parenting. Their parents are ninnies and they should keep this kind of adult shit away from their kids.... unless they enjoy upsetting them.

Wow... just wow.
There's no need for them to indoctrinate their kids over this or to foist their anxieties on their kids. I see years of therapy and dysfunction in their futures.

I can't imagine how these kids would be if they, like my father, grew up during WWII. They'd probably be jumping off bridges left-and-right...

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59836

Post by Kirbmarc »

Hunt wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: A Trump presidency won't be great. It probably won't be good, either,
More than likely the Trump presidency will seem exactly like GW Bush's third term. Hillary was right about it being trumped up trickle down. Trump has no discernible new ideas. He's going to rebuild the infrastructure. So perhaps the economy will boom on low pay construction jobs? Reminder to trump: this isn't 1934 anymore. You don't build a modern economy by building a bunch of dams and public works. And where will the money come from? Taxes? Pffft. Perhaps he thinks the wall to keep low wage Mexicans out will be paid for by Mexico and built by Americans. Sounds lovely. More shitty jobs for Merkans, hoorah. And all those companies that moved offshore to get low wage labor? They kind of like it that way. Are you willing to underbid them on labor costs? Sure you are. More min wage American jobs. Hint: Americans are too fat to work assembly line these days anyway. Again, this isn't 1934.
The problem is that this looks impossible to solve. If people want high-paying jobs then they can't have low-price products and low taxes and tariffs.

Companies move offshore to get low wage labor because then they can sell their products at a low price and conquer the market. Most of the stuff we use is made in countries were wages are incredibly low, and it's not a coincidence. I think that with the rise of education in, say, India even white-collar jobs are leaving the US. It's cheaper to hire an Indian engineer or publicist or ad agent than an American one. To say nothing of low end white-collar jobs like call-center operators.

So to create new jobs you need to either rise high tariffs on trade to revitalize American businesses (which has the side effect of making low-price products unavailable) or lower the wages of American workers to compete with Chinese workers (which has the side effect of creating very low-paying jobs). Or a combination of both, which is bad for US exports and will probably won't work great for anyone.

New jobs in construction sound decent enough but as you wrote you need to finance them, and the people who have voted for Trump don't want new taxes. Trump could probably try to reduce spending on international institutions and on US military bases abroad (or on US military expenses in general), but then he'll run afoul of the military-industrial complex which has many ties to the GOP and he'll risk losing the military vote by creating more unemployed ex-military people.

The problems with US economy and economy in the West in general are structural ones. People in the "West" want high standards of living (compared to the world average) so they need high-paying jobs and cheap products. This is possible only by hiring some other people to work low-paying jobs. Also the population in the "west" is growing older due to low rates of birth (which is what's happening everywhere as more and more people are around, but it's happened in the "west" for a longer time): productivity is therefore dropping since older people often retire and are unable to work. Taking care of retirees costs money, which have to be paid by workers if the state supports pensions and elderly care, or else left to the market which will reject those who cannot pay for their own or their relatives' care.

People also need higher standards of education to get high-paying jobs, so they need to study longer, marry and have children later, which again is bring birth rates down (again, this happens in non-Western countries too, only it started happening more recently). Education, again, has a high cost, either paid by private individuals (which creates a sharp divide between rich and well educated people and poor and uneducated ones) or by the state (which costs money in taxes or in cuts to other expenses).

Also non-Western people want Western standards of living, or just better paying wages and job opportunities than in their home country, and that's why the immigrate to the west, which creates a variety of social, political and economical issues (including immigrant accepting low-paying jobs and driving wages down just by showing up).

High taxes are usually very unpopular but people want an efficient police and justice system, good education and international security, which cost a lot of money and have to financed somehow.

Higher standards of living for more people require better food production and better production in general, which require reliable sources of energy. Sources for non-renewable energy are also gradually becoming rarer and giving increasing levels of contractual power to the groups/elites which control them, while sources for renewable energy aren't as reliable or efficient and require large initial investments (and so higher taxes/cuts on other forms of spending).

There's no easy fix, no simple solutions to these problems. Scientific research can lead to breakthroughs in production/sources of energy, but scientific research also costs a lot, and either private individuals will finance it (and sell its results at a high price) or the state will do (again, through taxes or cuts to other expenses).

Standards of living have been improved through scientific breakthroughs, but are maintained high and available to a lot of people by the work of other people for a low wage. There's no getting around it: the earth and human societies cannot support high standards of living for everyone on earth, or even for everyone in a specific country. And the "West" is growing older, fatter, less inclined to work hard for low wages (for understandable reasons) and less likely to produce children (again for understandable reasons).

The US especially have grown fatter, because food companies have made fatty food cheap and healthy food expensive since it costs little to pump cheap hormones/cheap fats/cheap sugars into your food while growing vegetables has become expensive in certain parts of the US. Stupid po-mo ideas like "health at every size" aren't helping, but the damage was done far before those ideas were even conceived.

Not to mention the fact that thanks to lobbying for favorable copyright laws pharmaceutical companies can charge insane prices for their products in the US, where people without an insurance are screwed and so become less healthy, less productive and live shorter lives, while they increase poverty and lower productivity. Or that brokers can conceive schemes for investing the money of their clients in ways that benefit them in the short run but damage the economy in the long run, and force the government to pay for subsidies not to let investment companies and banks go bankrupt and the money that people invested or stored there disappear.

Is there an easy, quick fix to those issues? I don't think so. Trump has to face them, but Clinton would have had to face them, too. Did she have any idea? If so, why didn't we hear any of it?

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59837

Post by Cnutella »

Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.

sp0tlight
.
.
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:17 am
Location: Central Urope

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59838

Post by sp0tlight »

It's hard to do any parody of those guys.

http://i.imgur.com/TB1H9AY.jpg

Tribble
.
.
Posts: 5102
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:34 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59839

Post by Tribble »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:I think we largely agree on substance. I believe it would be accurate to say the ACA ultimately passed via budget reconcilliation, since that's the version that landed on Obama's desk for signature.
We don't seem to agree because two bills ended up on his desk. He signed the ACA, which did not involve any reconciliation, on March 23rd, 2010. He signed the budget-fix bill exactly one week later.
He's not going to admit he's wrong.

Obama Care, the mail bill, is PL 111-148. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111p ... ubl148.pdf March 23, 2010
The reconcilliation act is PL 111-152. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111p ... ubl152.pdf March 30, 2010

They are the law and the first amendment to the law.

He is wrong. You are right. There's no point in going forward. (This is why I put him on ignore. It's pointless because he's so indoctrinated that facts just matter and he will just keep making stupid arguments to weasel 'being right' in even if he's not. Kind of like Steersman.)

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59840

Post by Kirbmarc »

Cnutella wrote:Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.
Caine would be a great TV preachers! Missed job opportunity there. I especially love the "you fools" at the end. She can't use anything stronger than that because that would be ableism.

InfraRedBucket
.
.
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59841

Post by InfraRedBucket »

-

:lol:

Brive1987
.
.
Posts: 17791
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:16 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59842

Post by Brive1987 »

Cnutella wrote:Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.
Is that on her patch or PZ's?

AnonymousCowherd
.
.
Posts: 1708
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:49 am
Location: The Penumbra of Doubt

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59843

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Sunder wrote:If you're not willing to try to win the working class vote, then Dems lose for the forseeable future. Period. If you stupid fucks at FTB want to wallow in misery and bitch about how everyone not on your side should just go fuck themselves, then get used to losing. YOU are the millstone around the neck of liberalism. The sooner YOU fuck off, the sooner liberals can start winning again.
Yup, someone needs to win the working class vote, if they can persuade them it's worth voting at all. At least the US working class just voted for some disruption, rather than staging an outright revolt - if they really felt that bad about the way things were going. They have every right to feel disinterested though. Class anger is usually toward the "guys at the top", but it's usually the ones in the middle who end up getting trashed and, after they've dealt with the kulaks, the workers are screwed and the nomenklatura have business as usual - minus a few unlucky comrades perhaps but...greater good, etc. I'll be happy, but surprised, if it turns out any different this time.

Still, it has put class back on the agenda. The dead-ender Marxists must be rubbing their yellowing Das Kapital's in anticipation. Bad news SJWs - another really big book to read. As if.

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59844

Post by Spike13 »

Brive1987 wrote:Drew is nothing. Trump watch out, we have a badass here.

http://i.imgur.com/Dc5yZpP.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... 5tEKGFH2Hw

@donaldtrump you have now been added to pzmeyers mortal enemies list, not to worry though, it doesn't take up much of your time.

(Stolen from the Big Bang theory)

AnonymousCowherd
.
.
Posts: 1708
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:49 am
Location: The Penumbra of Doubt

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59845

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Cnutella wrote:Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.
Well, since no-one has any idea of what he'll actually do, Canine has as much chance of being right as anyone else.

Anyone struggling with an apoplectic rage funk anyway.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59846

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote:Drew is nothing. Trump watch out, we have a badass here.

http://i.imgur.com/Dc5yZpP.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... 5tEKGFH2Hw
626 possible Clinton voters stayed home in your county, Myers. You can't even influence your own students and neighbors, and you're a non-athletic college professor with a blog heading towards oblivion. Trump isn't your enemy, he's your boogeyman.

comhcinc
.
.
Posts: 10835
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:59 am
Location: from Parts Unknown
Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59847

Post by comhcinc »

Hunt wrote: He's going to rebuild the infrastructure. So perhaps the economy will boom on low pay construction jobs?

I stopped there. You think government contract infrastructure construction jobs are low pay?

I know people right now doing road work making 25 an hour. If you think that is low pay you might want hop on into that elitism boat as well.

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59848

Post by Spike13 »

Brive1987 wrote:What does President Trump mean for feminists?

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-an ... slxri.html
Many of the same women who voted for Clinton live with, work with, date and befriend men who voted for Trump. Women have always paired off with misogynist men

This is the kind of gobbledygook that gets written by folks who think the greatest thing about a candidate is what crockery they have in their shorts.

On another note, what if Hillary were a right winger someone along the lines of Maggie Thatcher... would they be as upset? Would liberal men be guilty of muh-soggy-knees? (Of course not, their neutering removes toxic masculinity and renders them ideologically pure newborn neckbeards.)

AndrewV69
.
.
Posts: 8146
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59849

Post by AndrewV69 »

Ahahahaha!

Go read A note to my readers from Pharyngula. Here is a teaser:
This was pointed out by a commenter on an “open thread” on the blog Pharyngula, part of the Freethought Blogs network. In response, P. Z. Myers, proprietor of Pharyngula, said this:
Bwahahah!

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59850

Post by Spike13 »

Brive1987 wrote:Where was the "leverage" when it was needed?

http://i.imgur.com/j7nbUoC.jpg
Care for them....bring cheeseburgers...

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59851

Post by Hunt »

comhcinc wrote:
Hunt wrote: He's going to rebuild the infrastructure. So perhaps the economy will boom on low pay construction jobs?

I stopped there. You think government contract infrastructure construction jobs are low pay?

I know people right now doing road work making 25 an hour. If you think that is low pay you might want hop on into that elitism boat as well.
Okay, so maybe it's not chump change. It's also not high pay. They're also hard and dirty. A lot of the roadworkers I see are breathing tar fumes all day. They're probably going to die of lung cancer around 60, especially if they smoke on top of that. Wonderful way to build an economy. It's not elitism to wish everyone had a great, healthy job. In reality, so the wisdom goes, some dumb fuck has to do it.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59852

Post by Hunt »

And btw, since this is like the third time you've been dismissive with me, eat a dick and put me on ignore.

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59853

Post by Cnutella »

Brive1987 wrote:
Cnutella wrote:Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.
Is that on her patch or PZ's?
Her neck of the woods (Affinity) - sorry, I should have linked but archive runs like shit on my phone.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161110123 ... d-gleeful/

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59854

Post by Kirbmarc »

Many of the same women who voted for Clinton live with, work with, date and befriend men who voted for Trump. Women have always paired off with misogynist men
[/quote]

What about the millions of women that voted for Trump? He got around the 42% of the female vote, that's not an insignificant percentage (it's higher than Romney's). Are women who voted for Trump misogynistic women? (Of course, and gender traitors/sister punishers as well).

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59855

Post by Hunt »

Kirbmarc wrote: The problem is that this looks impossible to solve. If people want high-paying jobs then they can't have low-price products and low taxes and tariffs.
Raise tariffs and China raises prices. Walmart, the largest corporation in the world, no likey high prices. Neither do the people who buy endless supplies of Walmart crap, even though Walmart is why they no longer have their jobs.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59856

Post by Kirbmarc »

Hunt wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: The problem is that this looks impossible to solve. If people want high-paying jobs then they can't have low-price products and low taxes and tariffs.
Raise tariffs and China raises prices. Walmart, the largest corporation in the world, no likey high prices. Neither do the people who buy endless supplies of Walmart crap, even though Walmart is why they no longer have their jobs.
Yeah, I've acknowledged that. High-paying, high quality jobs, cheap products, low taxes: pick two.

dogen
.
.
Posts: 2585
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59857

Post by dogen »

Brive1987 wrote:Where was the "leverage" when it was needed?

http://i.imgur.com/j7nbUoC.jpg
She ate the lever.

Give me a lever and a place to stand and I will move the earth nom nom nom.

BarnOwl
.
.
Posts: 3311
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm
Location: The wrong trouser of Time

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59858

Post by BarnOwl »

Cnutella wrote:Caine.has some advice on her blog for Trump voters:
Fuck every single godsdamned person who voted for Trump – you voted for a xenophobic, homophobic bigot, a rapist, a sexual predator, a con man, an open fraud, a sociopath, an ignorant asspimple who will hasten the death of the very planet which gives you life. Fuck. every. single. one. of. you. You make me wish there was a hell, because if anyone deserves it, you do. Instead, you have unleashed hell on millions upon millions of people, and you have signed the death sentence on your own fucking planet, you fools.
There is no need to be upset. No tears now, only dreams.
People who fly around the globe for obscure conferences in China, research trips, seminar gigs, etc. are also hastening the death of the planet. One of the faculty at my uni sent out this e-mail complaining about students and postdocs (and other faculty) working on their laptops during seminars, and how rude that was to the invited speakers. My department has required attendance for faculty at seminars and student presentations, and we have to sign in like naughty children - this was instituted because of low attendance at seminars that "embarrassed" the chair. Here's my solution: stop inviting seminar speakers. If no one wants to listen to them, then why waste the money (honoraria, airfare, hotel, meals) and further contribute to destruction of the planet? Their collaborators here can have video conferences with them instead.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59859

Post by Kirbmarc »

Only white people can be racist:

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59860

Post by Cnutella »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:
Sunder wrote:If you're not willing to try to win the working class vote, then Dems lose for the forseeable future. Period. If you stupid fucks at FTB want to wallow in misery and bitch about how everyone not on your side should just go fuck themselves, then get used to losing. YOU are the millstone around the neck of liberalism. The sooner YOU fuck off, the sooner liberals can start winning again.
Yup, someone needs to win the working class vote, if they can persuade them it's worth voting at all. At least the US working class just voted for some disruption, rather than staging an outright revolt - if they really felt that bad about the way things were going. They have every right to feel disinterested though. Class anger is usually toward the "guys at the top", but it's usually the ones in the middle who end up getting trashed and, after they've dealt with the kulaks, the workers are screwed and the nomenklatura have business as usual - minus a few unlucky comrades perhaps but...greater good, etc. I'll be happy, but surprised, if it turns out any different this time.

Still, it has put class back on the agenda. The dead-ender Marxists must be rubbing their yellowing Das Kapital's in anticipation. Bad news SJWs - another really big book to read. As if.
I don't know what can be done to save blue collar jobs in an age of increasing automation and jobs going overseas. I'm not sure I've seen anyone propose a reasonable solution that isn't the equivalent of giving a guy a red flag and having him walk in front of the train. If we want affordable goods along with high standards of living, then jobs will either go outside the country or be given to some sort of Sex Robot. Either way, the end result is more people losing their access to high standards of living, which leads to understandable discontent.

I can't remember where I read it, but a blogger who was more on the SJW side made a point yesterday about how the unemployed white underclass in Virginia are only going to be furious if you explain their White Privilege to them. I couldn't find the specific piece, but I did find this in the Guardian that underscores the point:
The situation in McDowell [West VA], by almost every measure, has gotten progressively worse throughout that period.

Life expectancy – the starkest gauge of all – has declined continually since 1981. The high rate of suicide and the impact of the opioid epidemic have combined to put McDowell’s rates of mortality on par with Ethiopia.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... own-voters

I suspect that quite a few Trump voters don't really care whether Trump will be an effective president or not, and some of them may actively hope that he isn't, or at least don't really care if he fulfills any of his policy statements or not. If you're at rock-bottom and no one is listening, there's schadenfreude in seeing the middle class who have ignored your plight for so long dragged into economic turmoil - see how they like it.

I also suspect that identity politics will become an even bigger millstone around the necks of the left. You can't beat populist politics if the perception is that you are privileging minority groups over your voting base.

screwtape
.
.
Posts: 2713
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:15 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59861

Post by screwtape »

The Labour Party in the UK moved towards the centre when they discovered they couldn't get elected by working class voters alone. Sadly though, they found themselves without any kind of inspiring platform, and in order to keep their new middle class supporters they couldn't include much in the way of hard left/socialist policy. They were reduced to showmanship and political manœuvring and the attraction of that soon faded, and Blair's fall from grace illustrates it perfectly. If you have never watched The Thick Of It, you should, as it captures nicely the in-fighting and complete lack of principle. In a way, I wonder if the Labour Party didn't just move itself into an awkward corner that the US Democrats have found themselves in for a long time. The Democrats can't be called leftist by anyone outside the US - they align pretty well with the Conservatives in Canada. They know socialist policy doesn't sell in America, and they can't go rightwards without making themselves look like Republicans. None of this is news to anyone, but I came across a quote the other day that threw some light on it.
In one of Jordan Peterson's many interviews he said he had worked for the NDP in Saskatchewan as a youth, and the founders of that party not only worked for making working class lives better, they actually liked working class people. He commented that this is no longer true, and most party functionaries these days don't like the working class, and simply resent the success of others.
Perhaps there is some inevitability in this; as working class lives and conditions improve their interests become closer to those of the middle class (and one hardly ever hears the term working class in America - they are told they are all middle class now, which is odd). So maybe there is no place for actual socialist platforms, and any further moves to lessen the income gap will look like envy and resentment. Frankly, with no manufacturing jobs any more, there isn't much hope of creating a worthwhile improvement for the working class. The only kind of policies left that Democrats and Labour can offer as good and positive are those intended to equalise opportunity by improving the parlous state of education, and ensuring proper access to healthcare and other social benefits. Just being good at politicking isn't enough, as Hillary has found out. Being overly-good at it leads to outsiders like Sanders being thrown away when they could have brought real success. And populist rogues like Huey Long (and perhaps Trump is cut from the same cloth) don't last long either before they are seen for what they are.
Both parties have lost their way and have to think hard and long about what they want to be in the future

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59862

Post by Cnutella »

So Mundane Matt did a video on the election, and made one great point about Hillary's suitability as POTUS. He pointed out that Hillary blew off her own party when it became clear how it was going to go and instead of going out there and delivering a concession speech as every previous candidate has done, Podesta has to tell the disappointed remnants that she'd deal with it tomorrow.

At the time I raised an eyebrow, as it seemed dismissive to the people who turned out for her, to the nation waiting to hear about the transition of power, and to her opponent.

Matt pointed out that even if they were planning to contest the election, she should still have been there to explain that. If they weren't planning to contest, then she should have conceded gracefully there and then. As MM said:
"She didn't step up to the plate to finish what she fucking started. She didn't. She cowered away and for a person who Bill Maher claims is ready to be commander in chief, you don't shy away from... ...a concession speech like a crooked, crooked coward."


It was a good point - how you cope with and react to defeat is much more important a measure of the quality of a leader than how you manage victory. I don't think Trump would have conceded gracefully (if he was willing to concede at all), but at least he was there with his supporters.

https://youtu.be/ZZQImlaDWo4 - relevant section is 10m 25s in

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59863

Post by Cnutella »

screwtape wrote:The Labour Party in the UK moved towards the centre when they discovered they couldn't get elected by working class voters alone. Sadly though, they found themselves without any kind of inspiring platform, and in order to keep their new middle class supporters they couldn't include much in the way of hard left/socialist policy. They were reduced to showmanship and political manœuvring and the attraction of that soon faded, and Blair's fall from grace illustrates it perfectly. If you have never watched The Thick Of It, you should, as it captures nicely the in-fighting and complete lack of principle. In a way, I wonder if the Labour Party didn't just move itself into an awkward corner that the US Democrats have found themselves in for a long time. The Democrats can't be called leftist by anyone outside the US - they align pretty well with the Conservatives in Canada. They know socialist policy doesn't sell in America, and they can't go rightwards without making themselves look like Republicans. None of this is news to anyone, but I came across a quote the other day that threw some light on it.
In one of Jordan Peterson's many interviews he said he had worked for the NDP in Saskatchewan as a youth, and the founders of that party not only worked for making working class lives better, they actually liked working class people. He commented that this is no longer true, and most party functionaries these days don't like the working class, and simply resent the success of others.
Perhaps there is some inevitability in this; as working class lives and conditions improve their interests become closer to those of the middle class (and one hardly ever hears the term working class in America - they are told they are all middle class now, which is odd). So maybe there is no place for actual socialist platforms, and any further moves to lessen the income gap will look like envy and resentment. Frankly, with no manufacturing jobs any more, there isn't much hope of creating a worthwhile improvement for the working class. The only kind of policies left that Democrats and Labour can offer as good and positive are those intended to equalise opportunity by improving the parlous state of education, and ensuring proper access to healthcare and other social benefits. Just being good at politicking isn't enough, as Hillary has found out. Being overly-good at it leads to outsiders like Sanders being thrown away when they could have brought real success. And populist rogues like Huey Long (and perhaps Trump is cut from the same cloth) don't last long either before they are seen for what they are.
Both parties have lost their way and have to think hard and long about what they want to be in the future
I generally agree with all of that. Although historically, improving education may actually help foment unrest unless you have worthwhile jobs available to your well-educated youth. A living wage with the prospect of advancement (socially and/or in business) provide both the means and motivation to maintain the status quo.

Za-zen
.
.
Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59864

Post by Za-zen »

Cnutella wrote:So Mundane Matt did a video on the election, and made one great point about Hillary's suitability as POTUS. He pointed out that Hillary blew off her own party when it became clear how it was going to go and instead of going out there and delivering a concession speech as every previous candidate has done, Podesta has to tell the disappointed remnants that she'd deal with it tomorrow.

At the time I raised an eyebrow, as it seemed dismissive to the people who turned out for her, to the nation waiting to hear about the transition of power, and to her opponent.

Matt pointed out that even if they were planning to contest the election, she should still have been there to explain that. If they weren't planning to contest, then she should have conceded gracefully there and then. As MM said:
"She didn't step up to the plate to finish what she fucking started. She didn't. She cowered away and for a person who Bill Maher claims is ready to be commander in chief, you don't shy away from... ...a concession speech like a crooked, crooked coward."


It was a good point - how you cope with and react to defeat is much more important a measure of the quality of a leader than how you manage victory. I don't think Trump would have conceded gracefully (if he was willing to concede at all), but at least he was there with his supporters.

https://youtu.be/ZZQImlaDWo4 - relevant section is 10m 25s in
I agree. I wholly understand she was probably reeling, and highly emotional, given the context that it was supposed to be a crowning. But the people out there are what matter, they're the ones who dug dirt for you for months if not years, grab your balls in your hand, or you tits as the case may be, straighten your back and man the fuck up, give them the closure THEY deserve.

Sulman
.
.
Posts: 2057
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59865

Post by Sulman »

Kirbmarc wrote: Who is this guy? Is he a member of the Horde I've never heard of?
One of the original lolcows.

Za-zen
.
.
Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59866

Post by Za-zen »

dogen wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Where was the "leverage" when it was needed?

http://i.imgur.com/j7nbUoC.jpg
She ate the lever.

Give me a lever and a place to stand and I will move the earth nom nom nom.
OK, i'm sold, a Trump victory was worth it, this is epic.

Za-zen
.
.
Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59867

Post by Za-zen »

We get to troll SJWs for the next four years, from the fucking white house!

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59868

Post by jet_lagg »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Ape+lust wrote:Jeezus. Look who's about to have the Secret Service at his door, and will maybe enjoy a federally funded vacation in a cinderblock box...

It's Chris Chan! :lol:

http://imgur.com/ER6F45X.png

Who is this guy? Is he a member of the Horde I've never heard of?
He is legend.

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Chris-chan

Karmakin
.
.
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:49 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59869

Post by Karmakin »

Kirbmarc wrote:Only white people can be racist:
Chu. Dude. Election's over.

You can stop campaigning for Trump now.

Za-zen
.
.
Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59870

Post by Za-zen »

Hunt wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Hunt wrote: He's going to rebuild the infrastructure. So perhaps the economy will boom on low pay construction jobs?

I stopped there. You think government contract infrastructure construction jobs are low pay?

I know people right now doing road work making 25 an hour. If you think that is low pay you might want hop on into that elitism boat as well.
Okay, so maybe it's not chump change. It's also not high pay. They're also hard and dirty. A lot of the roadworkers I see are breathing tar fumes all day. They're probably going to die of lung cancer around 60, especially if they smoke on top of that. Wonderful way to build an economy. It's not elitism to wish everyone had a great, healthy job. In reality, so the wisdom goes, some dumb fuck has to do it.
That's why Mucica needs mexiniggas

TedDahlberg
.
.
Posts: 1111
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:08 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59871

Post by TedDahlberg »

InfraRedBucket wrote:-

:lol:
http://i.imgur.com/3IvaEZR.png

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59872

Post by Cnutella »

Brive1987 wrote:What does President Trump mean for feminists?

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-an ... slxri.html
Many of the same women who voted for Clinton live with, work with, date and befriend men who voted for Trump. Women have always paired off with misogynist men
The author of that piece, Jill Filipovic, has put together a plan to re-fight (and lose, only worse) the last election, not the one that's going to happen in four years. Or less.
For feminists... ...This is a big setback - a phenomenal, shocking setback....

..The only way to change is to change, and when our project is so immense - changing no less than the foundation of our society, our very ideas of what it means to be male and female - it will take a very long time to complete. We know, now, what so many Americans think of successful, ambitious, intelligent women: They think we are a threat. They will choose almost anything to avoid putting us in charge.
There goes the identity politics ego, getting the way again. Is it really about women? What about Palin? Weren't the Tea Partiers ecstatic when they thought she would be running for President?
We fix this with more feminism, not less. And given who Americans just elected, we have to focus first on the women a Trump presidency will make most vulnerable: immigrant women, women of colour, lesbian women, transgender women, women seeking abortions, women seeking asylum, women seeking protection from men. If there was ever a time to donate to your local domestic violence shelter, your local abortion fund, Black Lives Matter, your local group helping refugees apply for legal status, your local nonprofit group that shelters and assists undocumented immigrants, this is it. If there was ever a time to refuse to cower in the face of defeat - to speak louder, even in our female voices - this is it. Because what Trump wants us to do is sit down and shut up.
Unless all these people are a bigger voting bloc than the Trump protest vote, then this isn't going to win the next election. In fact, it will likely just cement the perception of your privileging minority rights. Unless you can articulate why that's important in a way that the electorate will accept, then you're going to lose and lose and lose.
We should pay attention, too, to the many men whose lives are about to get significantly worse under Trump. Immigrant men. Gay men. Black men at risk of police violence. Men who rely on the Affordable Care Act for their health insurance. Men who reject traditional masculinity. And even the men and women who voted Trump to victory - white people who traded racial resentment for the kind of progressive change that would have improved their lives, too. They surely think feminism has nothing to offer them compared with a promise to restore them to their former position of unearned power; they are about to see how wrong they are.
I am a bit cautious about what will happen if/when Trump loses his patience. Whether the white folk who voted for Trump get stiffed by him or not (and they will), they'll still enjoy watching your protests get pummeled by riot police and eventually fired on by the National Guard, even as the Constitution goes down the drain.

Service Dog
.
.
Posts: 8652
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:52 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59873

Post by Service Dog »

Back in 2012, none of us realized how close these idiots came to accidentally, actually getting Kony elected.

Im literally shivering right now.

jet_lagg
.
.
Posts: 2681
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:57 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59874

Post by jet_lagg »

Kirbmarc wrote:By the way the statement about the muslim ban has disappeared from Trump's website.

I think that Trump is going to tighten immigration but never speak of that blanket muslim ban again.
From his plan:
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.
Would it have been so hard for Clinton to throw a bone like this to people rightly concerned with a foreign ideology that openly calls for the downfall of our civilization? A symbolic nod towards what everyone could plainly see would have been enough. Instead, she doubled down on the narrative that terrorism is not a big deal and by the way you're racist for being upset about all those children you saw mangled on the streets of Nice. This really was Hillary's election to lose.

When they called it for Trump, I texted the news to a friend whose always been more left leaning than me. I think he's campaigned for every single Democratic candidate since highschool. His response? "ahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH."

Za-zen
.
.
Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59875

Post by Za-zen »

Service Dog wrote:Back in 2012, none of us realized how close these idiots came to accidentally, actually getting Kony elected.

Im literally shivering right now.
get with the program, it's shaking, shivering is for homeless white elitists

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59876

Post by Kirbmarc »

screwtape wrote:Perhaps there is some inevitability in this; as working class lives and conditions improve their interests become closer to those of the middle class (and one hardly ever hears the term working class in America - they are told they are all middle class now, which is odd). So maybe there is no place for actual socialist platforms, and any further moves to lessen the income gap will look like envy and resentment. Frankly, with no manufacturing jobs any more, there isn't much hope of creating a worthwhile improvement for the working class. The only kind of policies left that Democrats and Labour can offer as good and positive are those intended to equalise opportunity by improving the parlous state of education, and ensuring proper access to healthcare and other social benefits. Just being good at politicking isn't enough, as Hillary has found out. Being overly-good at it leads to outsiders like Sanders being thrown away when they could have brought real success. And populist rogues like Huey Long (and perhaps Trump is cut from the same cloth) don't last long either before they are seen for what they are.
Both parties have lost their way and have to think hard and long about what they want to be in the future
There is no place for truly socialist platforms and nobody wants them. Unlike what many They always fail or produce authoritarian nightmares where the gap between the Inner Party and the Proles is actually larger that in mixed economies. Most people don't want equality, they want a decent chance for themselves of getting a middle class lifestyle (food, water, utilities, healthcare, fridge, washing machine, phones, Interne house, car, the chance to raise a couple of children, relatively cheap vacations, some kind of relatively cheap way to be amused, retirement funds, etc.). You know, the American Dream.

They also want to feel safe and protect by an efficient police system.

Many are willing to work for it, while a selected few (including many SJWs) want and are ready to exploit privileges from the state because they think they deserve them. We can safely ignore those selected few since they're also willing to work for it if push comes to shove. The problems come when you can't get a job or the job you get doesn't allow you to have that middle class lifestyle.

Cheap or free healthcare and social benefits (retirement funds, food stamps, etc.) make it easier to have this lifestyle but they cost, and a lot. People are going to pay for them one way or another. Organizing public healthcare takes time, effort and is going to cause a lot of pushback. Investing to create new businesses and new jobs also takes time, effort and is going to cause a lot of pushback. The same thing is true for public works which could create jobs that could pay for that lifestyle (Trump's project, more or less). An efficient police/border police force costs quite a lot, too. You have to either have high taxes on those who are richer than the middle class (if you're sucking off the middle class to pay for other people to get to the middle class you're doing it wrong) or to have moderate taxes but to cut some other forms of spending.

The US are already spending a tremendous amount of money on their military. Playing global policeman doesn't come cheap, but the US are stuck in the role due a series of interlocking financial and public interests. Touching the military-industrial complex is pretty much impossible, the only thing you can do if you want to reduce military expenses is not to go to war abroad anymore, turn your defense system towards protection of your borders and leave NATO and your other allies to more or less fend off for themselves (which is actually what Trump claims to want). This is why he needs a deal with Russia, and Putin is more than happy to reciprocate because he has his own issues to deal with. While NATO allies are getting royally screwed you can kind of see Trump's point if you assume that the US is all that matters.

Not that I think that Trump will be able to do what he promised to, but I can see why some people might like his ideas about the economy and foreign policy. "Deal with the most prominent dangers (ISIS) then get back home" is a good policy to sell to many people, surely easier to believe to be possible than "export democracy".

Trump isn't right wing or left wing. He's an isolationist populist, and I think you're on the money with the Huey Long comparison. He's probably a fraud but some of his ideas are popular with people who care only about the US, which for someone who lives in the US kind of makes sense, at least in the short run.

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59877

Post by Cnutella »

Za-zen wrote: I agree. I wholly understand she was probably reeling, and highly emotional, given the context that it was supposed to be a crowning. But the people out there are what matter, they're the ones who dug dirt for you for months if not years, grab your balls in your hand, or you tits as the case may be, straighten your back and man the fuck up, give them the closure THEY deserve.
Yup. Totally agree. Also, if you can't handle doing that, how are you going to cope with a really stressful situation - one that requires immediate and level headed leadership? How would she have handled a 3AM call explaining that an incident in Syria got out of control and now 3 Russian planes are down along with a US Hornet and maybe the Russians are planning an airstrike against US naval targets?

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59878

Post by Cnutella »

Kirbmarc wrote:
From his plan:
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.
"Extreme vetting" = dangling immigrants out of a helicopter until they admit that they're terrorists?

Cnutella
.
.
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59879

Post by Cnutella »

jet_lagg wrote: When they called it for Trump, I texted the news to a friend whose always been more left leaning than me. I think he's campaigned for every single Democratic candidate since highschool. His response? "ahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH."
I'm curious to know what he dislikes so intensely about HC and/or the current democratic party, and what he thinks about the prospect of a Trump presidency. There definitely seems to be a lot of ambivalence from other lefties about the Trump win and I'm quite curious about motives and trade-offs. With Brexit, a lot of people seemed to have buyer's remorse the morning after, saying that they'd never have voted for it if they knew it was really going to be passed. I haven't seen anything like that from the US elections yet, even though it's highly likely that he collected a significant number of protest votes from people who thought it would be safe, as all the polls indicated he wasn't going to win.

I imagine the backlash could be quite severe if you were outed as a Trump protest voter, so that might explain it.

Spike13
.
.
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#59880

Post by Spike13 »

Watching Fox, I got to see all the. If right wing pols. Suddenly speaking of Trump with glowing praise.( the same guy they slunk away from when things got tough.( shows one their level of character.)

One can only hope that when Trump hosts his first meeting he let's them ramble off a few right wing pipe dreams before silence if the room, then he tells them how things are going to be.

1. Deal with healthcare. Nothing gets touched on Obamacare until something better is proposed to repair/replace it and includes rules to regulate costs that will be applied industry wide (pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, laboratories,equipt.manufacturers, insurance companies, doctors,nursing homes etc. everyone drawing money off the system included)

2. Rebuilding the nations infrastructure, roads, rails, communication networks,port facilities. Jobs will be prevailing wage and offer on the job as well as after work job training.(Vic/tech/or two year degree)
Upgrading of schools where warranted.

3. Give much needed help to the inner cities, first step,come up with a common sense plan to end the war on drugs, drug violence has killed more people than drugs themselves. MJ legalization with an eye to regulating other recreational substances. The money saved from this as well as sales taxes will pay for #1 and #2.

4. Leveling the playing field on manufactured goods coming in. (Ex. Goods from Germany will suffer little as workers are paid well and have good benefits, goods from sweatshops will be tariffed at a higher rate.
Fair and equitable trade. Any money brought in will go to points 1 and 2.

Inform them that this is just to start, get on board or Trump will take these ideas to the states and the people and see about getting folks who will work with him elected. These points will be articulated in the inaugural address.

Something along those lines would be nice. I know the drug thing is a long shot, but he may be educatable on the subject.

Locked