The Refuge of the Toads

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AndrewV69
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48001

Post by AndrewV69 »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Couch wrote:On a lighter note, I'm in intermission at Fawlty Tours on Stage at Roslyn Packer theatre in The Rocks. I was a bit nervous they'd balls it up, but it's great. Three episodes scripted into one two hour production. Same dialogue pretty much, maybe a couple of tweaks and new gags. Loving it! Back in now - rumour is the Germans are next!
Great!

Don't mention the war!

"You started it!"

"We didn't!"

"Yes, you invaded Poland!"

Have fun, lucky bastard.
Still the funniest scene I've ever watched on TV. Saw the 'German visitors' episode again last year with a friend and was ROTFLMAO all over again.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/arc ... 22476c.jpg

I had forgotten that the iconic TV series only had two seasons, 4 years apart and only a total of 12 episodes were made.What a shame. Nobody does eccentric like the British.
Full episode here if anyone wants.



I just had to watch it again and yes I was in stitches. Also BTW, that episode would no doubt cause a storm today because the words nigger and wog were used at one point.

Ahhhhh, the good old days back when before this toxic bullshit PC culture took hold.

Easy J
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48002

Post by Easy J »

BarnOwl wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
"snip"

In the last 7 years Muslim terrorists have killed only in the territory of the United States:

-14 people in 2009 (1 in the Little Rock recruiting office shooting, 13 in the Fort Hood shooting)

-3 people in 2013 Boston Marathon bombings (which also injured 183 people)

-1 person in the 2014 Queens Hatchet Attack

-49 people in 2016 at the Orlando Shooting Massacre

That's a total of 67 people killed in 7 years in the US alone (without including US citizens killed abroad).

In the same period Christian terrorists in the US killed:

-1 person (Dr. George Tiller) in 2009

-3 people in the Colorado Springs abortion clinic shooting in 2015

4 people in 7 years.

Somehow I'm not convinced that those "continuous low-casualty events" caused by Christian extremists are worse than the "continuous low-casualty events" caused by Muslim extremists...
Add another 14 killed to the Muslim terrorism total for the 2015 San Bernardino attack. :bjarte:

It gets much uglier when you figure up the relative population percentages of the two groups.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48003

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Easy J wrote:
It gets much uglier when you figure up the relative population percentages of the two groups.
You are clearly not using statistics in a SJW approved manner.

Here's a chart from a link posted by Peter Ferguson, former skeptic ink blogger and now an Irish version of Steve Shives, that proves that Islamic terrorists are nothing to worry about.

It's those latino and jewish terrorists who are the real problem.

http://i2.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-c ... =491%2C491

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslim ... ca/5333619

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48004

Post by Gumby »

MacGruberKnows wrote: ************************************************************
Take a number, let's say 39:

39/2 .... 19 Remainder 1
19/2 ..... 9 Remainder 1
9/2 ...... 4 Remainder 1
4/2 ...... 2 Remainder 0
2/2 ...... 1 Remainder 0
1/2 ...... 0 Remainder 1

The remainders from top to bottom make 100111

Using right-most column as 0 and left-most column as 5:

Or (1 * 2^5) + (0 * 2^4) + (0 * 2^3) + ( 1 * 2^2) + (1 * 2^1) + (1 * 2^0)
= 32 + 0 + 0 + 4 + 2 + 1
= 39

So 39d = 100111b

******************************************

Have no idea why it works but it does.
This is the method I used in Fortran class in college. A nice and tidy algorithm that uses very few lines of code.

Sunder
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48005

Post by Sunder »

Jan Steen wrote: He once said that he looked like the actor Ed Asner, so you're not far off.

http://3a376o1lveli4brgjcn2y118.wpengin ... 20x330.jpg
I like Ed Asner and would find it insulting to tell him he looked anything like some Pharyngula tit.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48006

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

That website the chart comes from is a hoot. Brain control and the evils of NATO. It may seem a bit dodgy until you put you're tinfoil hat on.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48007

Post by VickyCaramel »

MarcusAu wrote:It seems that most everyone here is an optimist - in a glass half full way.

But I think that Vicky Caramel at least would be prepared to say that their culture gave us Zero.
Sure, the zero pipeline runs right next to the oil pipelines. If the muslim world suddenly sank into the sea, our supply of zeros would dry up.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48008

Post by Gumby »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
rayshul wrote:I have come here to keep my mouth shut on Facebook about the number of stupid women whinging how the French are dumb for banning the burkini. Without intelligent reasoning, just WHAT SILLY HEADS.
After discussions here and a bit of reflection, I too have come to the conclusion that the ban is indeed dumb, for many reasons. The one positive thing about it is it showed we could actually do something about symbols of radical islam if we decided so. Most bans will probably be lifted soon, but it sent a message, IMO.
You changed your mind on a controversial subject based on reasonable discussion and being able to keep an open mind? I think you can pretty much forget about being an FTB or Orbit blogger, buddy boy..

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48009

Post by Gumby »

d4m10n wrote:Shared without comment
:bjarte:
When Shrimpy Alex McGabriel writes his first book, I bet the first sentence will be "It was a dark and stormy night."

Tribble
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48010

Post by Tribble »

Brive1987 wrote:I never realised NASA wrote a 400 page report explaining how and why Columbia's crew died when their shuttle came apart at 145k feet.

The tl/dr is: depressurisation with helmet visors up, getting smacked about in the tumble, being ejected into space and then hitting the ground.

So now you know.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf

They have a collection of n> level absurd acronyms including the CE (catastrophic event).
Yeah... Engineers do that. It makes for better engineering. It gives them insight to possible corrective measures that could be implemented to increase crew survivability in a crisis and over-all mission success. It's worked incredibly well in aerospace engineering, all the way from small VFR craft to the largest of jumbo jets.

So I certainly wouldn't change a thing. Otherwise:

[youtube][/youtube]

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48011

Post by Gumby »

Brive1987 wrote:I never realised NASA wrote a 400 page report explaining how and why Columbia's crew died when their shuttle came apart at 145k feet.

The tl/dr is: depressurisation with helmet visors up, getting smacked about in the tumble, being ejected into space and then hitting the ground.

So now you know.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf

They have a collection of n> level absurd acronyms including the CE (catastrophic event).
They did the same thing for Challenger. Quite horrific to think that the crew was probably alive all the way down.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48012

Post by VickyCaramel »

Kirbmarc wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:Add another 14 killed to the Muslim terrorism total for the 2015 San Bernardino attack. :bjarte:
You're right, I missed that. That makes the total of victims of Muslim terrorist attacks between 2009 and 2016 count go up to 81, twenty times more than the victims of Christian terrorists during the same seven year period.
To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48013

Post by Tribble »

Kirbmarc wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:Add another 14 killed to the Muslim terrorism total for the 2015 San Bernardino attack. :bjarte:
You're right, I missed that. That makes the total of victims of Muslim terrorist attacks between 2009 and 2016 count go up to 81, twenty times more than the victims of Christian terrorists during the same seven year period.
The numeric columns are killed & wounded. SInce 2010 in the US:

010.04.14 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.

2011.04.30 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.

2011.09.11 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.

2012.01.15 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.

2012.11.12 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.

2013.02.07 USA Buena Vista, NJ 2 0 A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.

2013.03.24 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.

2013.04.15 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.

2013.04.19 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.

2013.08.04 USA Richmond, CA 1 0 A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death.

2014.03.06 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.

2014.04.27 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.

2014.06.01 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.


2014.06.25 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.

2014.09.25 USA Moore, OK 1 1 A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.

2014.12.18 USA Morganton, NC 1 0 A 74-year-old man is shot several times in the head by a 'radicalized' ISIS supporter.

2015.07.16 USA Chattanooga, TN 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.


2015.12.02 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.

2016.06.13 USA Orlando, FL 49 53 An Islamic extremist massacres forty-nine people at a gay nightclub.


THe bolded items are the ones I think are reasonably defined as terrorism. The others... Not so much...

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48014

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Gumby wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
rayshul wrote:I have come here to keep my mouth shut on Facebook about the number of stupid women whinging how the French are dumb for banning the burkini. Without intelligent reasoning, just WHAT SILLY HEADS.
After discussions here and a bit of reflection, I too have come to the conclusion that the ban is indeed dumb, for many reasons. The one positive thing about it is it showed we could actually do something about symbols of radical islam if we decided so. Most bans will probably be lifted soon, but it sent a message, IMO.
You changed your mind on a controversial subject based on reasonable discussion and being able to keep an open mind? I think you can pretty much forget about being an FTB or Orbit blogger, buddy boy..
My life is finished, my dreams shattered. Might as well go get married to perpetuate cis-hetero hegemony.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48015

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:Add another 14 killed to the Muslim terrorism total for the 2015 San Bernardino attack. :bjarte:
You're right, I missed that. That makes the total of victims of Muslim terrorist attacks between 2009 and 2016 count go up to 81, twenty times more than the victims of Christian terrorists during the same seven year period.
To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
But deer don't kill other deer for an ideology, and lighting don't strike other lightning for an ideology (as far as I know).

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48016

Post by VickyCaramel »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: You're right, I missed that. That makes the total of victims of Muslim terrorist attacks between 2009 and 2016 count go up to 81, twenty times more than the victims of Christian terrorists during the same seven year period.
To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
But deer don't kill other deer for an ideology, and lighting don't strike other lightning for an ideology (as far as I know).
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48017

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?
Why would I want to do that? We're comparing muslim terrorism in the US Vs. christian terrorism in the US. I have no intention of quantifying the scale of terrorism Vs. the scale of shark attacks.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48018

Post by Shatterface »

Sunder wrote:
Jan Steen wrote: He once said that he looked like the actor Ed Asner, so you're not far off.

http://3a376o1lveli4brgjcn2y118.wpengin ... 20x330.jpg
I like Ed Asner and would find it insulting to tell him he looked anything like some Pharyngula tit.
Also, unlike some former FTB bloggers, Asner doesn't like spunk.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48019

Post by Jan Steen »

Kirbmarc wrote: (...)
Saad is one of the people who called "Kolnnauzer" (the compilation of old Myers posts) an Islamophobe. I posted a quote of one of his old comments along with Myers. People also called Saad's old post Islamophobic.
(...)
If you really want to raise your blood pressure, you should read the piece by Iris Vander Pluym that was the inspiration for Peezus' post. This blogger is one of the Hordelets that were given a spot on FTB in the absence of competent authors willing to write there. IVP has such a phobia for Islamophobia that she claims that ISIS and al-Qaeda have nothing to do with Islam. Let that sink in for a moment.

She also denies that human rights, women's rights, gay rights and freedom of speech are fundamental values of the West. She does this by pointing out that in practice western governments sometimes do things that are contrary to these values. That is like claiming that burglary is not frowned upon because there happen to be burglars. Her attitude to freedom of speech says it all:
Iris Vander Pluym wrote:[Freedom of speech is] only for white manbabies; anyone else who speaks freely to say “no” to them or point out white manbabies’ wrongness or sense of entitlement is subject to relentless threats of rape, death and other forms of violence, SWATting, doxxing and harassment campaigns in order to silence them, and often succeeding. FREE SPEECH™, everyone.
Is it really necessary to point out the countless people who are not "white manbabies" and yet are clearly able to enjoy freedom of speech? I think not.

IVP is as crazy as a rabid bat, and 100% dishonest, and as such fits in seamlessly with the other SJWs that have infested FreefromthoughtBlogs since Peezus allowed his worst sycophants* to become bloggers there. And, like all Orbitters and FTBloggers, IVP has a monstrously inflated sense of her own worth. She's a dreadful writer, like the rest of them, but this does not stop her from playing the condescending school mistress towards Sam Harris.
I did a debunking of Harris almost two years ago on this very topic. It was a tedious exercise, mainly because like all right-wing conservatives and reactionaries, he bases his irrational, evidence-free, simplistic, black-&-white views and arguments, such as they are, on falsehoods and factual inaccuracies that are a cakewalk to disprove. The task was all the more unbearable because I’ve always found Harris an unoriginal and uninteresting thinker and a witless and dull writer, so much so that I’m genuinely amazed he is not a regular op-ed columnist for the New York Times.
Note how Ms Batshit accuses Harris of "simplistic, black-&-white views". I suppose that is in contrast to those much more nuanced views of her own, for instance when she claimed that freedom of speech is only a thing for "white manbabies". That is absolutely not a simplistic, black-and-white view. Iris Vander Pluym is a dime-a-dozen, obnoxious SJW. An unoriginal and uninteresting thinker and a witless and dull writer. One of a million Stephanie Zvan clones.

*Except, unfortunately, Nerd of Redhead.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48020

Post by VickyCaramel »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?
Why would I want to do that? We're comparing muslim terrorism in the US Vs. christian terrorism in the US. I have no intention of quantifying the scale of terrorism Vs. the scale of shark attacks.
The breakdown of US deaths is this.

Christianity 4
Islam 81
Lightning 867

The point is that in a population of over 300 million, you are talking about miniscule numbers. This is important when talking about a proportional response.

You say 20 times more people die from Islamic terrorism than Christian terrorism which sounds like a scary big number. I think it very useful to put that into context of something like lightning strike death. We are not spending trillions of dollars on preventing deaths from lightning.
Obviously, if there was a sudden increase in deaths by lightning we would have to be concerned, take a look at the problem and hopefully come up with a proportional response. Obviously we have seen a rise in Islamic terrorism since 2001 and it needs to be addressed.

Really if you are discussing these numbers it would be for the best if you consider other factors such as how many muslims vs christians there are within the population. On the face of it, this would make things look worse for the muslims, on the other hand Christians have less need to resort to terrorism because they have greater access to political power.

You know, I just think it is useful to add proper context to numbers on terrorism.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48021

Post by Jan Steen »

Gumby wrote:
d4m10n wrote:Shared without comment
:bjarte:
When Shrimpy Alex McGabriel writes his first book, I bet the first sentence will be "It was a dark and stormy night."
Alex McGabriel's style is reminiscent of the water drained from a kitchen sink after you have cleaned some bowls with old dog food in it.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48022

Post by Sunder »

It would be more useful to look at spree murders as a subcategory of all murders rather than all deaths from anything.

Premeditated murder is a very different thing from falling down the stairs or heart disease.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48023

Post by CommanderTuvok »

A message to the twats at FreeThoughtBlogs and The Orbit who are browsing here.

Go fuck yourselves hard, you fucking shitstains.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48024

Post by CommanderTuvok »

You will notice that the regressive left have a very nebulous definition of "terrorism", and other labels that correctly point out the unique problem of Islamism.

They will always redefine it so that "everybody is as bad as one another". It is an old trick, and one stupid people keep falling for.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48025

Post by Sunder »

I mean, part of the "proportionality" argument is that we can't stop lightning strikes from happening, we can only minimize risk of exposure.

But crimes committed by humans, yes, we can stop a lot of them from happening in the first place. So we apportion a greater amount of resources toward combating crime than combating nature.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48026

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?
Why would I want to do that? We're comparing muslim terrorism in the US Vs. christian terrorism in the US. I have no intention of quantifying the scale of terrorism Vs. the scale of shark attacks.
The breakdown of US deaths is this.

Christianity 4
Islam 81
Lightning 867

The point is that in a population of over 300 million, you are talking about miniscule numbers. This is important when talking about a proportional response.

You say 20 times more people die from Islamic terrorism than Christian terrorism which sounds like a scary big number. I think it very useful to put that into context of something like lightning strike death. We are not spending trillions of dollars on preventing deaths from lightning.
Obviously, if there was a sudden increase in deaths by lightning we would have to be concerned, take a look at the problem and hopefully come up with a proportional response. Obviously we have seen a rise in Islamic terrorism since 2001 and it needs to be addressed.

Really if you are discussing these numbers it would be for the best if you consider other factors such as how many muslims vs christians there are within the population. On the face of it, this would make things look worse for the muslims, on the other hand Christians have less need to resort to terrorism because they have greater access to political power.

You know, I just think it is useful to add proper context to numbers on terrorism.
Maybe you haven't followed the discussion closely, in which case I apologize. We were dealing, specifically, with moronic claims made on Myers' blog about muslim vs christian terrorism in the US.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48027

Post by dogen »

feathers wrote:
dogen wrote:I'm just coming off a year's sabbatical at a USA public Research-1 university. They paid for ~65% of my salary for the academic (9-moth year)
If you're a gecko, 9 moths may not carry you far. If you're a mantis, you're better off.
You made me laff on a dark Sunday. Thank you!

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48028

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Now, relevant to my country (because right now it seems to be close to the focus of this whole discussion):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_France

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48029

Post by Clarence »

feathers wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:It seems that most everyone here is an optimist - in a glass half full way.

But I think that Vicky Caramel at least would be prepared to say that their culture gave us Zero.
Vicky and Kirbmarc have some relatively sane and workable measures to stem the tide, which are not going to be implemented because all politicians from the left to right-of-centre are somehow paralysed. Instead, the extreme right is waiting in the wings to implement their solution. And they're likely to get the stage in the coming 10 years.

The glass is half empty and what remains is poisoned.
If you reduce my entire argument against the longetivity of the current US political matrix down to one thing it would be that PARALYSIS is no longer an option, yet the current system thrives on and encourages it. It's actually worse than that, as past policy mistakes and oversteps are actually starting to harm the larger society in many ways, some obvious, some not. But like most things in our government, not only are these institutions and policies self-perpetuating, but some are actively expansionist. And due to electoral fear and the rhetoric that so many of these things have wrapped themselves in, gradual, piecemail reform is near impossible as is suddenly reversing course.
No one wants to be responsible for bad news.

That's not counting the factors of political elitism being exaggerated a bit at the national level (hence out of touch policies) due to so many of our politicians being loyal to either big donors, globalist interests (or heck, sometimes globalism in general), and our increasingly popular Identity Politics. Islam is, of course, only part of all of this, and the reasons we can't deal with Open Borders are the same reasons we can't deal legal law and order issues, are the same reasons we can't deal with Muslim immigrants and terrorists except one way, and one way only.

The US political system lacks brains, heart, and nuance, and in the last 30 years esp its lacked loyalty both to the populations it supposedly serves (US workers) and the document it supposedly embodies and defends.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48030

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?
Why would I want to do that? We're comparing muslim terrorism in the US Vs. christian terrorism in the US. I have no intention of quantifying the scale of terrorism Vs. the scale of shark attacks.
The breakdown of US deaths is this.

Christianity 4
Islam 81
Lightning 867

The point is that in a population of over 300 million, you are talking about miniscule numbers. This is important when talking about a proportional response.

You say 20 times more people die from Islamic terrorism than Christian terrorism which sounds like a scary big number. I think it very useful to put that into context of something like lightning strike death. We are not spending trillions of dollars on preventing deaths from lightning.
Obviously, if there was a sudden increase in deaths by lightning we would have to be concerned, take a look at the problem and hopefully come up with a proportional response. Obviously we have seen a rise in Islamic terrorism since 2001 and it needs to be addressed.

Really if you are discussing these numbers it would be for the best if you consider other factors such as how many muslims vs christians there are within the population. On the face of it, this would make things look worse for the muslims, on the other hand Christians have less need to resort to terrorism because they have greater access to political power.

You know, I just think it is useful to add proper context to numbers on terrorism.
Yes, point well taken.

On the other hand, there's much more to risk assessment than past number/rate of successful attacks. It's only a matter of time until we have another 9/11-scale catastrophe, or worse. Imagine a weapon of mass destruction finding its way into the wrong hands. Those are the looming threats that most frighten me. I remember reading a piece by Lawrence Krauss several months back that I thought entirely overlooked that angle.

Guestus Aurelius
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48031

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

By the time enough people recognize the Islamic terror threat for what it is, it will be too late.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48032

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Yesterday, in Nice, a Turkish Airlines plane missed its approach and made a very (very very very) low pass over Nice (usually they have to stay above the sea), including our neighborhood. Luckily, we were on our way back from Ali's workplace at the time and didn't witness it. Else, my pants would be in serious need of a good washing.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48033

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Okay, then can you please quantify how much intent magnifies the scale of the problem?
Why would I want to do that? We're comparing muslim terrorism in the US Vs. christian terrorism in the US. I have no intention of quantifying the scale of terrorism Vs. the scale of shark attacks.
The breakdown of US deaths is this.

Christianity 4
Islam 81
Lightning 867

The point is that in a population of over 300 million, you are talking about miniscule numbers. This is important when talking about a proportional response.

You say 20 times more people die from Islamic terrorism than Christian terrorism which sounds like a scary big number. I think it very useful to put that into context of something like lightning strike death. We are not spending trillions of dollars on preventing deaths from lightning.
Obviously, if there was a sudden increase in deaths by lightning we would have to be concerned, take a look at the problem and hopefully come up with a proportional response. Obviously we have seen a rise in Islamic terrorism since 2001 and it needs to be addressed.

Really if you are discussing these numbers it would be for the best if you consider other factors such as how many muslims vs christians there are within the population. On the face of it, this would make things look worse for the muslims, on the other hand Christians have less need to resort to terrorism because they have greater access to political power.

You know, I just think it is useful to add proper context to numbers on terrorism.
Intent matters a lot. The important question is how many people would each group kill if they had the means and opportunity. Forced conversion and murder of the infidel is one of the central features of Islam, not a fringe belief. The same can not be said of any other major religion. There is no ambiguity in the actions of Mo. His example is clearcut. The policy has been carried out almost continuously for over 1500 years with a death toll of over 250 million and it is foolish to believe that the threat is gone. Extremist Islam is always smouldering away beneath the surface ready to burst into flame precisely because it is clearly following the example of it's founder. One of the reasons why moderates are so defensive when asked to condemn extremists is that to do so is to condemn Mohammed, at least in the case of those who know anything about their religion.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48034

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »


Clarence
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48035

Post by Clarence »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:Add another 14 killed to the Muslim terrorism total for the 2015 San Bernardino attack. :bjarte:
You're right, I missed that. That makes the total of victims of Muslim terrorist attacks between 2009 and 2016 count go up to 81, twenty times more than the victims of Christian terrorists during the same seven year period.
To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
I'll agree that context is important.
And the numbers of victims Islamic terrorist attacks (not counting the BIG ONE 9/11) in the US - even if you double or triple them due to a change in how you categorize terrorism - still fade into noise when matched against 300 million people.

But intentions and proportions matter too.

Proportionally, Muslims are 20 to 100 to probably 1000 times as likely as other religions(depends on the religion) to engage in domestic terrorism.

And inentionally, there's no doubt there are hundreds of millions of Muslims world-wide (and maybe as many as a few tens of thousands of radical ones here) that wish the US harm.

So yes, you do treat such a population differently than other religions and other immigrants.

That's like buying into the BLM propaganda about police, without pointing out the vast majority of violent crime is committed by blacks.
And it only takes a few murders a year to paralyze many aspects of a community.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48036

Post by feathers »

Brive1987 wrote:
Holy smoke, Lotsad is denser than the Black Hole at the centre of the Galaxy, and at the same time more vicious than a weasel on acid.

I can easily imagine Latsot as an apparatchik in a Stalinist interrogation centre, confronting the hapless prisoner with a crossfire of ever-more bizarre allegations and questions until the latter finally, in an unguarded moment, confesses something that condemns him.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48037

Post by feathers »

Jan Steen wrote:Peezus had one of his two-minutes-of-hate pieces on Sam Harris again. The comments are classic Pharyngula (strawmanning, abuse, self-righteousness, racism, Nerd of Redhead, etc.).

https://web.archive.org/save/_embed/htt ... very-blue/

It's becoming increasingly rare there, but from time to time a mentally sane person leaves a comment. In this case it's a commenter called camilo.
/snip/

I have to stop now. Reading Pharyngula should only be done in small doses. I find I can take only so much stupidity without becoming depressed.
And if Latsot is a Stalinist bureaucrat, Nerd is Freisler's love child.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48038

Post by screwtape »

If you have any room to spare before your systolic pressures cause a terminal event you can be horrified by the Globe and Mail, dredging up more articles for the front page by WOC.

Here's a real beaut: If you’re wearing a hijab, be wary of RCMP recruitment drive A hijab wearing woman decides that the RCMP allowing officers to wear a hijab is somehow evidence that they are worse than ever, and she still hasn't gotten over the legal challenge in the mid-1980's by a turban wearing sikh officer. She concludes by telling us that her 14 year old daughter "has decided" to wear a hijab and is now being advised by her mother to never consider a career with the RCMP. Then again, how effective would a hijab-wearing mountie be when forced to touch strange men in the course of breaking up bar fights?

They must realise that the comments afterwards indicate that they simply won't sell any newspapers with this kind of dreck. I assume they have given up on turning a profit from the print edition and are relying on their paywall site. (Clear their cookies whenever they tell you that you can't have any more articles, and read all you want - or can stand.)

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48039

Post by Sunder »

I think of Nerd as a Lamprey. His host can barely stand him but these days he's short on sycophants so will tolerate anything willing to put its lips on his ass.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48040

Post by feathers »

VickyCaramel wrote:To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
I say, all the deer back to Deeristan and the lightnings to... the City of Light?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48041

Post by HunnyBunny »

Shocking news from Germany.
I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48042

Post by feathers »

Sunder wrote:I mean, part of the "proportionality" argument is that we can't stop lightning strikes from happening, we can only minimize risk of exposure.
Lightnings don't conspire to go out and kill as many people as possible in the hope they hit the jackpot. They just incidentally hit stuff that gets in their way. In fact, if US lightnings could talk, I'm sure you'd have heard "sorry" 867 times.

Also, you should count the number of terrorist lightnings as percentage of the total.

Lsuoma
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48043

Post by Lsuoma »

Sunder wrote:I think of Nerd as a Lamprey. His host can barely stand him but these days he's short on sycophants so will tolerate anything willing to put its lips on his ass.
Oh, for a surfeit!!!

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48044

Post by Mr. X, Indeed »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Now, relevant to my country (because right now it seems to be close to the focus of this whole discussion):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_France
I visited a friend in Paris within a couple of weeks of the RER bombing in '95. I had some ridiculous haircut so my head was mostly shaved at the time. Coming in from de Gaulle, I arrived at the Gare du Nord station to find it swarming with gendarmes who didn't like the looks of me. I think I was searched 3 times before getting out of the station. Once out, nobody batted an eye at me after. Since a bomb had been found in a trash can earlier, all the trash cans in the city had been welded shut. The residents just calmly tossed their trash into the gutter all over the city. The streets were clean because of the army of street sweepers constantly working on what had to be a massive scale.

Trying to flirt with Japanese art students in a coffee house on the Left Bank despite speaking neither French nor Japanese. Surviving on black coffee, Gauloises, Fisher Gold, and random food from carts. Spending far too much time in the basement of the Musée de l'Orangerie. My friend throwing me on a bike with a group of Australians for a tour of the city immediately upon arrival after an eight hour flight. My friend being hit by a car on his bike the day before I was scheduled to leave, resulting in us not meeting up and me needing to find the garage he had moved to in order to get my tickets and clothes. Wandering the city all night because I couldn't find the right Metro exit, only to luck out the next morning with just enough time to get to the airport. Splitting a fifth of SoCo in an alleyway at 9AM to send me off, at least you could still smoke on international flights back then. Finally, being surrounded by a large Pakistani family who packed with nothing but grocery bags for the flight from JFK back home. Good times.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48045

Post by feathers »

129.5 metres altitude? Some people must have had a heart attack. Especially if you can read the name of the company on the fuselage.

No doubt there will be a (public) incident report of this.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48046

Post by CommanderTuvok »

HunnyBunny wrote:Shocking news from Germany.
I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:
Since when have TV companies not reported stuff to "prevent scaring people"? What a load of bullshit. They are simply following SJW censorship rules and downplaying anything that might paint Islam or Muslims in a negative fashion. They tried to do the same in Rotherham and various northern English cities, and it backfired on them. BIG TIME! These fucking SJW freaks just hand ammo over to the far right.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48047

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
True, but what I was arguing against was this claim:
Vivec wrote:I don’t accept that Christian anti-abortion terrorists are the sum total of domestic Christian terrorism, nor do I consider a lucky one-off plane highjacking proof of an ongoing existential threat.
And, as mentioned above, I think that one-off high-casualty events are a far lesser problem than continuous low-casualty events.
So I provided info that even leaving aside 9/11 as a "high casualty event" the "continuous low casualty events" caused by Muslim terrorism are a worse problem than the "continuous low casualty events" caused by Christian terrorists.

I'm not saying that Muslim terrorism causes a "big, scary" amount of deaths when compared to all other causes of death. I'm saying that claiming that Christian terrorism is as worrying as a problem as Muslim terrorism or worse because "continuous low-casualty events" are a far worse problem than "high casualty even" means ignoring the evidence of Muslim attacks other than 9/11 (the "high casualty event").

Muslim terrorism is not as big as a problem as many think, but Christian terrorism is an even smaller problem.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48048

Post by Kirbmarc »

feathers wrote: Holy smoke, Lotsad is denser than the Black Hole at the centre of the Galaxy, and at the same time more vicious than a weasel on acid.

I can easily imagine Latsot as an apparatchik in a Stalinist interrogation centre, confronting the hapless prisoner with a crossfire of ever-more bizarre allegations and questions until the latter finally, in an unguarded moment, confesses something that condemns him.
You're giving Latto far too much credit. In a Stalinist regime he wouldn't be an interrogator, he'd be a minor NKVD/KGB informer. "Yes, comrade, they were talking about comrade Stalin and exchanged a knowing smile. They're awful people". "Don't talk to them, comrade, I've reported them. Don't even stare. Do you want to be reported too?"

Tribble
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48049

Post by Tribble »

Is there a screwdriver somewhere in this argument?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48050

Post by Skep tickle »

Late to the party, but some thoughts on burkinis:

- Regardless of other considerations: seriously, laws against the wearing of one certain specific type of clothing on beaches?

- The alternative to being allowed to wear a burka or burkini on the beach, whether or not the person is a burka-wearer by personal choice or due to the pressure of a patriarchal culture or the pressure of a personal rule-making patriarch, is not that the person wears a standard bathing suit on the beach. It's that the person does not come to the beach.
- - Seems like basic humanitarianism to "allow" people to enjoy the beach, however it is that they can do that, without harming others.
- - Allowing people to come to the beach in a burkini *might* serve, in some cases, as a gateway to rebellion against a life of choices constricted by religious rules
- - Allowing people who dress in a modest religious fashion on beaches exposes them, and their children if any, to seeing lots and lots of people who dress in the current fashion - that is, in a much less modest manner
- - Would it be better for society overall that the religiously-modestly-dressed people, and their children if any, stay cloistered & not see this? Wouldn't you want young people in those cultures to be exposed to the norm in the country in which they live?

- The burkini probably does not pass muster as an Islamic garment. http://www.vocativ.com/353760/would-sau ... arabs-ask/
...Arabs themselves are questioning whether the burkina — the full-body covering women use to maintain modesty in the water — would even be allowed on their shores.

...Another pointed out that “if someone wore a burkini on the beaches of the Kingdom she could be imprisoned.” ...

Women are not allowed to swim in public swimming pools in Saudi Arabia, and can only swim in private facilities or places that are women-only. At public beaches they are restricted to the abaya – the full length black covering even if they choose to dip their toes in the water. ...

“Saudi is criticizing France for banning a woman for wearing a burkini. If their woman will wear it her father, mother, husband and brothers would whip her,” wrote one user. ...
From the designer of the burkini (TW: The Guardian): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ke-it-away
When I invented the burkini in early 2004, it was to give women freedom, not to take it away. ...

I remember when I first tested the burkini. ...

It was my first time swimming in public and it was absolutely beautiful. I remember the feeling so clearly. I felt freedom, I felt empowerment, I felt like I owned the pool. I walked to the end of that pool with my shoulders back.

Diving into water is one of the best feelings in the world. And you know what? I wear a bikini under my burkini. ...
Not only Muslim women are ordering burkinis: http://www.thejournal.ie/burkini-irelan ... 7-Aug2016/

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48051

Post by HelpingHand »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... nded-raci/

SJW callout culture creates a climate where this girl was so intimidated by the thought of an expected public shaming that she killed herself.

For some reason I just want to share a definition.

Terrorism - the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

H. Korban
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48052

Post by H. Korban »

Brive1987 wrote:I never realised NASA wrote a 400 page report explaining how and why Columbia's crew died when their shuttle came apart at 145k feet.

The tl/dr is: depressurisation with helmet visors up, getting smacked about in the tumble, being ejected into space and then hitting the ground.

So now you know.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf

They have a collection of n> level absurd acronyms including the CE (catastrophic event).
This is an excellent report, with very careful analysis of the various aerothermodynamic issues that could have caused the accident. Fluid mechanics at high speeds is hard, and the re-entry problem very complex. Modeling tools are still not able to resolve the flow and chemical kinetic features needed to either design or predict the physics of the system accurately. A good example of careful engineering work. Anyone who thinks that this is "easy" should try and reproduce even a simple figure, like fig. 2.1-54. I would probably assign this as a good term project for a graduate level computational physics class.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48053

Post by feathers »

This afternoon I was walking behind a muslim girl, long dress, hijab, but: the dress was made of thin fabric that neatly showed the contours of her hips (I swear I could even see the outline of her panties), she was wearing quite a bit of make-up and left behind her a whiff of sweetish perfume. She was certainly signalling something but I'm not sure it was virtue.

For a moment, I was contemplating that I could survive five prayers a day at idiotic times, but when I came to the alcohol I thought the better of it.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48054

Post by VickyCaramel »

Kirbmarc wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:To give that some context, around 130 per year are killed by deer in the US and 51 people per year are killed after being struck by lightning.
True, but what I was arguing against was this claim:
Vivec wrote:I don’t accept that Christian anti-abortion terrorists are the sum total of domestic Christian terrorism, nor do I consider a lucky one-off plane highjacking proof of an ongoing existential threat.
And, as mentioned above, I think that one-off high-casualty events are a far lesser problem than continuous low-casualty events.
So I provided info that even leaving aside 9/11 as a "high casualty event" the "continuous low casualty events" caused by Muslim terrorism are a worse problem than the "continuous low casualty events" caused by Christian terrorists.

I'm not saying that Muslim terrorism causes a "big, scary" amount of deaths when compared to all other causes of death. I'm saying that claiming that Christian terrorism is as worrying as a problem as Muslim terrorism or worse because "continuous low-casualty events" are a far worse problem than "high casualty even" means ignoring the evidence of Muslim attacks other than 9/11 (the "high casualty event").

Muslim terrorism is not as big as a problem as many think, but Christian terrorism is an even smaller problem.
Yes. Indeed. Both tiny problems. It gets nobody anywhere. Try using the same kind of argument for gun control and see how far it gets you.
Harris conflates all issues with Islam into one problem, so broadly speaking Harris talks a load of shit. So you end up with Meyers talking a load of shit to disprove Harris' load of shit. You end up discussing the thoughts of a load of people who are only ever right by accident. Proving Meyers wrong doesn't make anything that Harris says right.

PZ seems to be making up bullshit as to why Islam is not a unique problem while Harris makes the case as to why Islam is a problem. A lot of it is sort of "justifying", i.e. Islam is uniquely pernicious. Meanwhile we do have problems such as Islamic terrorism and the potential problem of the Islamification of Europe. That is really all the justification that is needed to address it. FYI, I also think that the amount of drug money that disappears into synagogues is also a problem worth addressing, it's uniqueness or comparisons with the amount of money laundering that goes on through christian charities had no bearing on the matter.

Sorry, I know i am not being very eloquent, but I find Harris and PZ completely irrelevant. You have talked far more sense on terrorism in the last few days than either of them ever have.

Jan Steen
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48055

Post by Jan Steen »

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48056

Post by Old_ones »

Sunder wrote:
Jan Steen wrote: He once said that he looked like the actor Ed Asner, so you're not far off.

http://3a376o1lveli4brgjcn2y118.wpengin ... 20x330.jpg
I like Ed Asner and would find it insulting to tell him he looked anything like some Pharyngula tit.
The Nerd reminds me of someone else... ironically.

http://www.montypython.com/uploads/Gene ... ollard.jpg

I wonder if Peezus ever sees the the similarities in their output.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48057

Post by John D »

feathers wrote:This afternoon I was walking behind a muslim girl, long dress, hijab, but: the dress was made of thin fabric that neatly showed the contours of her hips (I swear I could even see the outline of her panties), she was wearing quite a bit of make-up and left behind her a whiff of sweetish perfume. She was certainly signalling something but I'm not sure it was virtue.

For a moment, I was contemplating that I could survive five prayers a day at idiotic times, but when I came to the alcohol I thought the better of it.
Haha. Yea.

I live in Detroit and we have a very large Muslim population compared to most other US cities.

I have similar experiences with Muslim women all the time. They do cover their arms and legs, etc., but they wear very sheer clothes. There is nothing left to the imagination regarding their "adornment" (language taken from my translation of the Koran). They wear beautiful earrings, sometimes a noise piercing, and perfect makeup. They are often hot as hell.

To me, this goes against the intent of the Koran which says women should not show their sexuality in public.

Pray five times a day to tap that shit... maybe... haha. I would have trouble giving up the booze however.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48058

Post by gurugeorge »

Just as an interesting aside, I've been reading some fascinating revisionist essays on an alternative origin for Islam by a historian, Emmet Scott. http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpag ... _id/160197

The rough idea would be that there was no conquest of the Middle East and Persia by Arabs, and Arabs were not "Muslims" at that time, but rather a fair number of Arabs were of a Christian heresy, Ebionite (apparently remnants of the heresy documentedly shifted to the Arabian pensinsula after being ejected from Judea by orthodox Christianity).

What actually happened was that a Persian king conquered a good chunk of the Middle East, taking Jerusalem and biffing the Byzantine empire a good one on the nose (this is well documented). A substantial part of his soldiery was from the Arabian peninsula, and he may have converted to this heretical form of Christianity as part of a marriage deal. Later, some of the Ebionite Arabs usurped the Persian empire at an opportune moment, then a fictitious narrative with an Arabian prophet and holy book based on an Ebionite text was created to give legitimacy to the Arabic takeover. The Ummayad dynasty is therefore first actual "Muslim" dynasty (the successor "caliphs" of the fictitious Mohammed who supposedly did the conquering of Persia and the Middle East, Abu Bakr, etc., being also fictitious). It's only then that we start seeing recognizably Muslim stuff in the archeological record, but it all has a strongly Persian flavour (e.g. the crescent and cross symbol is Persian, and predates Islam).

This also fits in with some linguistic evidence which seems to suggest that the Quran might have been based in part on a Syriac Christian text (hence the fact that some of it is just nonsense - poor translation) with the added stuff about a native Arabian prophet mixed in. The well-known war of Hadiths is an extension of this, with later rulers trying to legitimize various things.

Even deeper down a possible wormhole, and along the same lines, the part result of these Persian shenanigans may be that we've lost about 300 years from our calendar (we might actually be living in the late 1700s :) ).

Fun to think about.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48059

Post by free thoughtpolice »

[youtube][/youtube]

As vivec so rightly points out, muslim terrorism is just self defense against the oil and power hungry western powers.
Open you eyes to the truth and pray!

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#48060

Post by Kirbmarc »

Jan Steen wrote:9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.
I wouldn't say it's a tiny problem, but it's not the only or the biggest issue with Islam, either. It's part of a continuum of bad ideas, but unlike those other bad ideas, we actually know how to address it, the laws are there, they're just not applied consistently. And we could easily reduce it if we simply cut the funding from our "allies" to people who preach violent messages and if we didn't make deals with "community leaders" who preach anti-Western ideas or allowed privileges for Muslim inmates in our prisons out of political correctness.

Luckily poison gas and nuclear weapons are pretty hard to get your hands on, very expensive and hard to use. Even explosives aren't extremely easy to find or use, and leave behind clues and paper trails. Guns are much cheaper, easier to find and use and easier to smuggle. It's not a coincidence that most terrorist attacks in the last years are committed by people who use guns, machetes and axes (even cheaper and easier to find than guns, although far less efficient) and occasionally some improvised explosive devices.

Hell, even 9/11 was required only fifteen goons with box cutters and fake bombs and four badly and quickly trained airplane pilots.

The biggest issue with nuclear weapons and Islam is a possible collapse/civil war in Pakistan, which is a nuclear power, and even in that case the moment some lunatics look even remotely likely to get their hands on a nuke it's the moment when India or China invade the country, possibly with the support of Russia or even the US.

Locked