The Refuge of the Toads

[Clarence]

Hmm. The Falcon Heavy (the most powerful rocket the US has produced since the Saturn V) will launch this year.
It's 3 Falcon 9 cores ,and the Falcon 9 (since you probably haven't been paying attention) has been launching for at least five years now.

Space has already landed five rocket stages. 2 on land. 3 at sea. It aims to relaunch its first rocket (the first EVER reusable rocket) later this year.
ULA and Ariannespace are shitting bricks.

I'm going to trust their accountants and their knowledge of how much it costs them to build and fuel their rockets (Space X pretty much builds the entire rocket in house with little exception) over some internet dunderhead. So that takes care of the financial case. As for the recovery at sea, certain flight profiles make that a physical necessity. Unless you don't want your satellite or whatever to give you a discount and are fine with the Falcon 9 being used in expendable mode.

Your comment shows just how little you know about this stuff.

[Aneris]

Aneris

As I understand it - there have been several recent demonstrations in Germany - where Germans of muslim decent (including recent migrants) have voiced opinions that were antisemitic - and may even have edged into holocaust denial. Am I mistaken on this?

Because if true - it sounds like there is a defacto parallel system already in place.

Would a German of muslim decent be treated the same as a caucasian (nominally christian) German for denying the holocaust? Or would the case never come to trial? Have there been any cases that test this?

I don't know these cases, but I know that this area is filled to the brim with misinformation. In my impression law enforment seems generally even handed. Not perfect, not without any scandal, but generally even handed. I also don't know how common holocaust denial cases are. They are either that common that news almost never pick them up, or they are very rare. And even if they sometimes overlooked holocaust denial from Muslims — IF — it does not mean special treatment. They could overlook cases of other groups in an equal amount. Or it could depend on a myriad of other factors, for example whether the person has influence or is just some random goon. I would have to get an idea of this first.

[MarcusAu]

Cheers Aneris - thanks for your response.

I'm in no way well informed on this - but it is good to hear the perspective of someone closer to the issue.

[feathers]

I want to get new birth certificates for me and my wife, and it's a nightmare.

Perhaps it's easier if you become a Born-Again Christian?
:mrgreen:

[MarcusAu]

I want to get new birth certificates for me and my wife, and it's a nightmare.

Perhaps it's easier if you become a Born-Again Christian?
:mrgreen:

or become a Buddist or Hindu

[AndrewV69]

You see:
Canada has a joke of a space program and never really got around to having one.
I don't even know if Canada ever launched a rocket as powerful as the Falcon 9 first version.

Due to NASA being a jobs program, 35 years of underfunding (for all the missions it is tasked to do) and lack of political interest among multiple administrations at the Executive level NASA has mostly stood still when it comes to manned space flight, manned space exploration, or any space infrastructure projects necessary for actual space exploration, utilization, or colonization.

Russia is in largely the same boat. They maintain their 40 year old Soyuz technology and recently (after struggle) opened a new Cosmodrome, but that's about it. It's the Soyuz that is getting American Astronauts and Russian Cosmonauts to the Space Station.

The Chinese have big ambitions, and at least seem to have a long range plan. But they are still investing rather slowly in space.

Britain just had its first astronaut.

Europe is wonderful for putting satellites into orbit (at least until Space X started undercutting it greatly on price). But they've never done a real exploration mission of even a probe beyond Jupiter, and they have no astronaut corps.

Musk has said (and as a long time space geek I agree) that since Apollo , arguably rocket technology had gone backwards.

Canukistan is by UN definitions a 3rd word country in the way it's economic are arranged. Broadly speaking, comoditys are exported and finished products from the same exports are imported instead of value added and exported. Manufacturing is by screwdrive assembly from imported parts. Industry & services are dominated by branchs set up by foreign multinationals.

*shrug*

We might have 1st world living conditions, but we are a 3rd. world country.

[Skep tickle]

@ Based Zebra

[youtube]BGzFr9qxBRk[/youtube]

Thanks! May not have time to watch the whole thing for a couple of days, but as a fan of FIRE & of Dreger I'm looking forward to it.

Couple of things:
1) "Comments are disabled for this video" - looks like that may not be something special for the Dreger speech but instead is FIRE's standard approach at their youtube channel. (Tad ironic, but it's their space.)

2) Heterodox Academy suggests that "If you can’t watch the whole thing, jump to 29:00 to hear her (7 minute) summary and conclusion."

3) Sorta related, here's a recent short cartoon clip from FIRE:
[youtube]lsEfKRURSsQ[/youtube]

[MacGruberKnows]

Hmm. The Falcon Heavy (the most powerful rocket the US has produced since the Saturn V) will launch this year.
It's 3 Falcon 9 cores ,and the Falcon 9 (since you probably haven't been paying attention) has been launching for at least five years now.

Space has already landed five rocket stages. 2 on land. 3 at sea. It aims to relaunch its first rocket (the first EVER reusable rocket) later this year.
ULA and Ariannespace are shitting bricks.

I'm going to trust their accountants and their knowledge of how much it costs them to build and fuel their rockets (Space X pretty much builds the entire rocket in house with little exception) over some internet dunderhead. So that takes care of the financial case. As for the recovery at sea, certain flight profiles make that a physical necessity. Unless you don't want your satellite or whatever to give you a discount and are fine with the Falcon 9 being used in expendable mode.

Your comment shows just how little you know about this stuff.

Would you put rockets on the front of your car to stop it. Or would you use the friction of the brake pads against the rotor to stop it. BTW, your foot on the brake pedal creates all the force needed to push the pads against the rotor to stop the car (for non-power brakes anyway). The shuttle used chemical energy to create kinetic energy to achieve gravitational potential energy once in space. It then traded - essentially for free - gpe to ke to friction energy to return to earth. This nonsense about not using the gpe to ke to friction loop and bypassing (wasting it) to use chemical energy to take chemicals up at the expense of payload and then wasting the gpe to ke to friction braking loop to use that chemical energy is bizarre. And the shuttle was still a huge disaster in terms of price to payload, for obvious reasons. Do you understand any of this?

As for trusting his accountants? That's the problem right there. This is engineering. And engineers account for energy gains and losses, not dollar gains and losses, And financially, his accountants have never reported anything but losses.

And apparently his engineering staff consists of people like you, people who can't account for anything including common sense.

[MacGruberKnows]

When this guy can make a $15000 dollar production electric car I will listen to him. A $70000 electric car is a joke. Smoke and mirrors. The reason others haven't done a $70000 electric car is because they have a sense of shame. It is not an answer for anything, other than assuaging the consciences of a very very few of the %1 elite.

And an electric car economy is a nuclear reactor based economy. Because that's the only thing that will produce the energy to make the electricity to power all of those cars. Hundreds of megawatt reactors.

[Clarence]

When this guy can make a $15000 dollar production electric car I will listen to him. A $70000 electric car is a joke. Smoke and mirrors. The reason others haven't done a $70000 electric car is because they have a sense of shame. It is not an answer for anything, other than assuaging the consciences of a very very few of the %1 elite.

And an electric car economy is a nuclear reactor based economy. Because that's the only thing that will produce the energy to make the electricity to power all of those cars. Hundreds of megawatt reactors.

I actually agree with your second paragraph IF you include the word "cleanly". Electricity to power all of those cars cleanly.

I'm all for nuclear reactors.

But while Tesla shows Musk h as more guts than Jobs ever did, it has shit all to do with a PRIVATE SPACE PROGRAM.

[comhcinc]

Tesla isn't really about making an electric car for the masses. It's about being a start to making a electric car for the masses. They are doing a shit ton of R&D attempting to solve the issues which electric cars. They are then open sourcing a lot of that information.
It's also about changing the image of electric cars. Which is a very big deal. I clearly remember, for example, when the Prius came out, Rush Limbaugh talking about test driving one and it being just like an underpowered golf cart.

And btw that's working.

[youtube]2tVGcYHjsWc[/youtube]

Now don't get me started on how sweet the Orion Spacecraft and SLS is,

[comhcinc]

When this guy can make a $15000 dollar production electric car I will listen to him. A $70000 electric car is a joke. Smoke and mirrors. The reason others haven't done a $70000 electric car is because they have a sense of shame. It is not an answer for anything, other than assuaging the consciences of a very very few of the %1 elite.

And an electric car economy is a nuclear reactor based economy. Because that's the only thing that will produce the energy to make the electricity to power all of those cars. Hundreds of megawatt reactors.

I actually agree with your second paragraph IF you include the word "cleanly". Electricity to power all of those cars cleanly.

I'm all for nuclear reactors.

But while Tesla shows Musk h as more guts than Jobs ever did, it has shit all to do with a PRIVATE SPACE PROGRAM.

I don't agree with it. While I love some nuclear power Musk is also, some would say more, into solar and batteries than cars. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

I am not saying solar is the future. I am saying with the rate technology is going it's foolish to say we know what the dominant energy source will be.

[MacGruberKnows]

When this guy can make a $15000 dollar production electric car I will listen to him. A $70000 electric car is a joke. Smoke and mirrors. The reason others haven't done a $70000 electric car is because they have a sense of shame. It is not an answer for anything, other than assuaging the consciences of a very very few of the %1 elite.

And an electric car economy is a nuclear reactor based economy. Because that's the only thing that will produce the energy to make the electricity to power all of those cars. Hundreds of megawatt reactors.

I actually agree with your second paragraph IF you include the word "cleanly". Electricity to power all of those cars cleanly.

I'm all for nuclear reactors.

But while Tesla shows Musk h as more guts than Jobs ever did, it has shit all to do with a PRIVATE SPACE PROGRAM.

I agree. Safe nuclear reactors are the only way to go and I believe the West especially the US can build them. The problem is with all of those other countries. Might need a UN agency in charge of building them, but then nothing spells politics like UN.

What I always tell people about electric car technology is, what's the battery in your car? Because it's a big heavy Lead-Acid battery like they used 100 years ago. When they come out with a small, light battery for your gas engine car then I might start looking to invest in electric cars.

And I would make electric cars that can take a guy to work and be charged in the middle of the night tax-free and even pay incentives to build up a critical mass of electric cars, but until the battery problem is solved I don't see it being practical for a lot of people. Motors are about as good as you can get barring a miraculous room temperature superconductor material being discovered and when was the last breakkthrough in that area?

[MacGruberKnows]

I am not saying solar is the future. I am saying with the rate technology is going it's foolish to say we know what the dominant energy source will be.

I can tell you right now, with absolute certainty that the power density of U-235 is far higher than sunlight hitting any part of our earth especially where I live. And that's only in the bright midday sun. Try buying a solar cell to trickle charge your battery. Cheaper just to buy a back-up battery.

[Clarence]

Would you put rockets on the front of your car to stop it. Or would you use the friction of the brake pads against the rotor to stop it. BTW, your foot on the brake pedal creates all the force needed to push the pads against the rotor to stop the car (for non-power brakes anyway). The shuttle used chemical energy to create kinetic energy to achieve gravitational potential energy once in space. It then traded - essentially for free - gpe to ke to friction energy to return to earth. This nonsense about not using the gpe to ke to friction loop and bypassing (wasting it) to use chemical energy to take chemicals up at the expense of payload and then wasting the gpe to ke to friction braking loop to use that chemical energy is bizarre. And the shuttle was still a huge disaster in terms of price to payload, for obvious reasons. Do you understand any of this?

Way to miss the point.
The fuel costs are about 200 thousand dollars per booster.
The costs to produce the booster are much higher. Ive seen figures between 30 and 60 million (including the manned overhead costs).
Imagine if, every time you wanted to fly cross country you had to get in a totally new airplane.
That's what expendable rockets do to the cost of space travel.
That's what Musk aims to change and is ALREADY CHANGING. Space X's prices are the lowest in the business, often by a factor of 2 or 3 already and that is WITHOUT resuability.

The Falcon (and the upcoming heavy) are listed at several price points depending on if you want full resuability , partial resuability, or you need all the power the two stages (and 9 or 27 engines on the boosters) can produce.

Due to the size of the fuel tank and the new cyrogenic loading process there is usually plenty of power to put your normal size satellite into pretty much orbit from LEO to GEO and return to either land or one of the drone ships.

As for trusting his accountants? That's the problem right there. This is engineering. And engineers account for energy gains and losses, not dollar gains and losses, And financially, his accountants have never reported anything but losses.

And apparently his engineering staff consists of people like you, people who can't account for anything including common sense.

Oh, you are so cute. You apparently know nothing about Musk beyond Tesla and you imagine Space X is run like Tesla. You probably even think they sell stock. Wrong. Privately held, according to Musk, until the Mars Colonial Transport is flying. They don't have to worry about six month quarterly results. They are not run by bean counters. Their funding comes from NASA contracts, a DOE contract (currently they are the only other company besides ULA certified for National Defense missions) and the fourty or fifty so private companies that have them booked for missions due to their low cost. They make their own freaking engines, including the upcoming Raptor (a closed cycle Methane engine) and Merlin engines (several types) already used on their existing rockets.

Space X was founded to make humanity a multiplanetary species. In order to do that, you need to lower the cost of space travel. In order to do that (for various technical reasons, including that WINGED BODIES aren't good in most of the solar system) it was determined that a resuseable booster system was the way to go. Space X has done all of this on their own time, own dime (no one has contracted them to make an experimental reuseable rocket program) and while flying current missions. They've also upgraded various NASA facilities including rocket test stands , have their own rocket launch ranges, including one in Texas, and currently have asked permission to build two more landing pads for their Falcon Heavy.

They also have a mission to Mars (on their own dime) planned for 2018 and which NASA has entered into a Space Act agreement to share information with them. You see, they plan to land one of their Dragon varients on Mars using retropropulsion. As this will be far heavier (and thus more useful for a potential human exploration/colonization scheme) than anything anyone has ever landed before on Mars (including NASA) NASA wants that data.

Did I mention they are designing their own space suits and are supposed to put their first American crew on the ISS as early as next year?

What we have here is a PRIVATE SPACE PROGRAM. Something many people thought was impossible.
Musk has at this point almost single handedly revolutionized the Space Industry. IF he gets those costs down like he wants and a Space Economy is started, that will be one of the biggest and most important things in the history of humanity. Esp if he DOES get his city on Mars started. This is far more important than Tesla.

I'm of the opinion he knows what he is doing...and really, do you think I haven't seen your criticisms before? I've been following Space X since 2010 and he's already proven the haters wrong so many damn times...

[comhcinc]

Chevy is coming out with the Bolt later this year. It's going to have a range of around 200 miles, will cost around 35000 dollars and only cost a couple of cents to charge.

[feathers]

As for Holocaust denial — doubting it or the scope — no decent person can have an interest in that.
...
There aren't a lot who doubt the existence of Genghis Khan's invasion, or want to eagerly dispute the existence of the Defenestation of Prague, the Second. Why not? Let's not fool ourselves. There are exactly two groups who have a motive to doubt it: Nazis and (potentially) academics. Nobody else.

Whoa! That is a statement so dangerous it could blow off the limbs of any body of free speech.

If you tie free speech on a topic to someone's perceived intentions, you give the government a wildcard to censor... just about anything they deem a threat to their pluche cushions.

That goes especially for the weird notion that you can no longer dispute the number of victims- unless you make new estimates in the upward direction I suppose.

[AndrewV69]

Anyone here still using TOR?

Some bad news Lucky Green is shutting down his participation.

Dear friends,
Given recent events, it is no longer appropriate for me to materially contribute to the Tor Project either financially, as I have so generously throughout the years, nor by providing computing resources. This decision does not come lightly; I probably ran one of the first five nodes in the system and my involvement with Tor predates it being called "Tor" by many years.
Nonetheless, I feel that I have no reasonable choice left within the bounds of ethics, but to announce the discontinuation of all Tor-related services hosted on every system under my control.
Most notably, this includes the Tor node "Tonga", the "Bridge Authority", which I recognize is rather pivotal to the network
Tonga will be permanently shut down and all associated crytographic keys destroyed on 2016-08-31. This should give the Tor developers ample time to stand up a substitute. I will terminate the chron job we set up so many years ago at that time that copies over the descriptors.
In addition to Tonga, I will shut down a number of fast Tor relays, but the directory authorities should detect that shutdown quickly and no separate notice is needed here.
I wish the Tor Project nothing but the best moving forward through those difficult times,
--Lucky

I am not telling you what to do but reading between the lines it does not look good.

[comhcinc]

I am not saying solar is the future. I am saying with the rate technology is going it's foolish to say we know what the dominant energy source will be.

I can tell you right now, with absolute certainty that the power density of U-235 is far higher than sunlight hitting any part of our earth especially where I live. And that's only in the bright midday sun. Try buying a solar cell to trickle charge your battery. Cheaper just to buy a back-up battery.

And I am telling you right now that Tesla already sales a solar system to charge their cars. I know a person that has one and he keeps his Tesla fully charged and produces more power than he uses every month.

So yeah the idea of a mostly solar network doesn't seem that far fetched to me. Sorry you choose to live in a shitty place.

[Badger3k]

Not having a dick in my mouth I was able to find the link ;)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... ate-crime/

The fact that the attacker was black seems to slip by most people. Hmmm. I also wonder if the people crying "hate crime" would have the same opinion for people who shoot, say, cops, in an attempt to intimidate them and make them fear for their lives? The potentials are possibly limitless.

[rayshul]

I reckon they should just stick a heap of nuclear reactors in the shitty parts of Australia and call it a battery

Can't put any in NZ

[Clarence]

As for Holocaust denial — doubting it or the scope — no decent person can have an interest in that.
...
There aren't a lot who doubt the existence of Genghis Khan's invasion, or want to eagerly dispute the existence of the Defenestation of Prague, the Second. Why not? Let's not fool ourselves. There are exactly two groups who have a motive to doubt it: Nazis and (potentially) academics. Nobody else.

Whoa! That is a statement so dangerous it could blow off the limbs of any body of free speech.

If you tie free speech on a topic to someone's perceived intentions, you give the government a wildcard to censor... just about anything they deem a threat to their pluche cushions.

That goes especially for the weird notion that you can no longer dispute the number of victims- unless you make new estimates in the upward direction I suppose.

Good point, feathers. While some of the Anti-Nazi (and Holocaust Denial..whatever that means...disputing numbers isn't always 'denial')stuff was understandable and needed for maybe a generation or even two after the war (generations are, variously 15 to 20 year lengths of time) , it's now been over two generations and there are no more legitimate reasons to continue this censorship. Esp since East Germany probably has taught just about every body any lessons about totalitarianism that the Nazi regime didn't teach.

But the Germans have never given up on the concept of "thought crime". Eventually, it will bite them again.

[Badger3k]

Hateful little scumbag PZ Myers about William Shatner:

So Leonard Nimoy turns out to be a thoughtful, interesting, enlightened human being, and he dies. William Shatner is a raging dillhole, and he lives forever. It all makes the old Star Trek really hard to watch.

Yeah, what a pity that Shatner didn't die instead, right? Because he made fun of SJWs, and even -- oh, horror -- cracked some sexist jokes (apparently -- Myers gives no evidence). So he deserves to die. That's PZ Myers for you. The raging asshole of FreethoughtBlogs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160720061 ... /bye-bill/

(Get well, FT.)

What's funny is that Shatner is somewhat-SJW himself. His big thing is harassment of anyone, and he has laid the blame for some harassment on the entire gamergate hashtag - his idea was that people should stop it...somehow. Never had any idea that I saw how people using a hashtag could prevent others from using it (or even being suspected of using it, as we've seen any troll called). He's a bit old-fashioned, but pretty decent. I think he doesn't get the whole social-media aspect as kids/younger-people see it, and that leads to some faceplate moments. Plus he is really into some kind of fandom for some tv show. Can't remember which one, but it involves angels or ghosts possessing people, maybe? Not sure what the show is, just remember it's one I never watched nor really was interested in. Something with "ships" - (my first thought was some kind of slash fiction, but apparently not...maybe).

[Hunt]

Hateful little scumbag PZ Myers about William Shatner:

So Leonard Nimoy turns out to be a thoughtful, interesting, enlightened human being, and he dies. William Shatner is a raging dillhole, and he lives forever. It all makes the old Star Trek really hard to watch.

Yeah, what a pity that Shatner didn't die instead, right? Because he made fun of SJWs, and even -- oh, horror -- cracked some sexist jokes (apparently -- Myers gives no evidence). So he deserves to die. That's PZ Myers for you. The raging asshole of FreethoughtBlogs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160720061 ... /bye-bill/

(Get well, FT.)

Someone in the audience called out "a woman's place is on the bridge"

Kate Mulgrew (Capt. Janeway) sarcastically says "or in the kitchen as the case may be"

Shatner replies "a woman's place is in the fridge"

Ha ha, get it, "bridge" "fridge" "in the kitchen"

According to SJWs this is horrible, unforgivable, shitlordy sexism, insufficiently respectful of women. Maybe what we need is a good war and conscription of both sexes.

[Clarence]

I am not saying solar is the future. I am saying with the rate technology is going it's foolish to say we know what the dominant energy source will be.

I can tell you right now, with absolute certainty that the power density of U-235 is far higher than sunlight hitting any part of our earth especially where I live. And that's only in the bright midday sun. Try buying a solar cell to trickle charge your battery. Cheaper just to buy a back-up battery.

And I am telling you right now that Tesla already sales a solar system to charge their cars. I know a person that has one and he keeps his Tesla fully charged and produces more power than he uses every month.

So yeah the idea of a mostly solar network doesn't seem that far fetched to me. Sorry you choose to live in a shitty place.

All I know is that the further you live from the equator the less sunlight per year and day you get and thus at some point, solar becomes physically unviable because you can't produce enough (even if you could save it).

And he is right about energy density. If they'd allow for it, small modular reactors and molten salt throrium reactors could take care of our energy need for hundreds of years (Fusion will probably be along before that, but its good to have the time), partially recycle our nuclear wastes (not that there is alot , but we don't recycle and thus it remains far more energetic and hence dangerous than it has to be), and use far less land (by a factor of hundreds to thousands) than any other power source, esp solar, which is very dilute.

But nuclear fear (seriously, the US is the only country in the world that has a 'disaster' in which no one was killed and no land lost either) and ignorance makes that impossible.

Luckily for us, China, the worlds biggest greenhouse polluter by far, isn't scared of nuclear and is looking to buld lots of the thorium reactors over the next twenty years provided the test reactor works well.

[Clarence]

Hateful little scumbag PZ Myers about William Shatner:

So Leonard Nimoy turns out to be a thoughtful, interesting, enlightened human being, and he dies. William Shatner is a raging dillhole, and he lives forever. It all makes the old Star Trek really hard to watch.

Yeah, what a pity that Shatner didn't die instead, right? Because he made fun of SJWs, and even -- oh, horror -- cracked some sexist jokes (apparently -- Myers gives no evidence). So he deserves to die. That's PZ Myers for you. The raging asshole of FreethoughtBlogs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160720061 ... /bye-bill/

(Get well, FT.)

Someone in the audience called out "a woman's place is on the bridge"

Kate Mulgrew (Capt. Janeway) sarcastically says "or in the kitchen as the case may be"

Shatner replies "a woman's place is in the fridge"

Ha ha, get it, "bridge" "fridge" "in the kitchen"

According to SJWs this is horrible, unforgivable, shitlordy sexism, insufficiently respectful of women. Maybe what we need is a good war and conscription of both sexes.

Just send the women. Or better yet, just send the feminists.
They claim they 'can do anything a man can do, only better', let them prove it.
Plus, males have been (ahem) disproportionately killed in our wars. We need to equal things up a little and most of our late teens to mid twenty lasses dont want to have babies when their fertility is greatest anyway.
Why should men get all the privileges of dying in battle?

[Hunt]

I think what some Trekkies hate about Shatner is that he isn't sufficiently respectful of fans. To them that's unforgivable. Shatner has been realistically disdainful of Trek fans ever since his appearance on the Saturday Night Live skit where he chided a fan for never being kissed by a girl. Like most people of his generation, Shatner loathes PC. In other words, he'll call a fat person fat.

[MarcusAu]

Someone in the audience called out "a woman's place is on the bridge"

Kate Mulgrew (Capt. Janeway) sarcastically says "or in the kitchen as the case may be"

Shatner replies "a woman's place is in the fridge"

Ha ha, get it, "bridge" "fridge" "in the kitchen"

According to SJWs this is horrible, unforgivable, shitlordy sexism, insufficiently respectful of women. Maybe what we need is a good war and conscription of both sexes.

The phrase 'Women in Refrigerators' is rather a loaded one - with a history behind it (at least in the comic book sphere).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators

Not that I would expect Shatner to necessarily have much familiarity with it. So, I think an off-the-cuff remark, that could be seen as off-colour should be treated charitably rather than the with the usual over-reaction.

But then again - I always think that.

[Hunt]

The phrase 'Women in Refrigerators' is rather a loaded one - with a history behind it (at least in the comic book sphere).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators

Not that I would expect Shatner to necessarily have much familiarity with it. So, I think an off-the-cuff remark, that could be seen as off-colour should be treated charitably rather than the with the usual over-reaction.

But then again - I always think that.

That is even discussed (and dismissed, as a possibility that Shatner could fathom it as a "trope") in the linked article, but they still find the "joke" unforgivable. Mostly, I think, because Shatner repeated it, interrupting (gasp) women and being silly/stupid about it. Basically, it doesn't sound "respectful of women", as if being respectful of men, or women, for that matter, was ever a feminist criterion.

[jimhabegger]

I want to get new birth certificates for me and my wife, and it's a nightmare.

Perhaps it's easier if you become a Born-Again Christian?
:mrgreen:

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

[Bhurzum]

Ouch!

Poor old Peezus is getting lynched by the Gaadfather...

(The entire conversation is pretty funny...and tragic)

[Kirbmarc]

As for Holocaust denial — doubting it or the scope — no decent person can have an interest in that.
...
There aren't a lot who doubt the existence of Genghis Khan's invasion, or want to eagerly dispute the existence of the Defenestation of Prague, the Second. Why not? Let's not fool ourselves. There are exactly two groups who have a motive to doubt it: Nazis and (potentially) academics. Nobody else.

Uhm...what about contrarians by nature? Or people who like to speculate about history and counterfactuals? Or simply conspiracy theorists? Hell, Noam Chomsky, who's not a Nazi by any means, defended Robert Faurisson, a prominent Holocaust denialist, on free speech grounds.

Anyway I don't think that you can limit speech based on the "decency" of people who might say something. I understand that Germans are sensitive about this specific argument, and no, banning Holocaust denial doesn't necessarily justify a slipper slope, but it's based on the same flawed logic of other "thoughtcrime" arguments: speculations on the motives and inner depravity of the speaker instead of focusing on the consequences of the speech itself.

I can understand limits on free speech based on clear, well defined consequences: falsely accusing someone of a crime or of an immoral/socially unacceptable action has some clear negative and unfair consequences on those who are accused or smeared. False alarms (the infamous case of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater) have clear harmful consequences. Ordering people to kill or rob others, and saying that it's right to react to offense with murder also have clear negative consequences. The same is true for blackmail, extortion, etc.

But what are the exact consequences of Holocaust denialism? Here the argument gets fuzzy. People who deny the Holocaust or question its scope don't falsely accuse anyone of crime or of an immoral/socially wrong action. They don't cause false alarms, or order or openly justify murder or theft. They express an idea: a very stupid and offensive idea, but just an idea nonetheless. I can understand that some relatives of Holocaust victims might be angry at them, but plenty of things are deemed offensive by different people.

Holocaust denial is deemed to be particularly offensive in Germany for obvious historical reasons, and there likely was a concern about a Nazi rebirth in the years when the law was passed (along with the ban on the swastika unless it's used for artistic/historical purposes). But the reasons behind the ban aren't particularly sound, they're based on the same rationale of obscenity laws and blasphemy laws (it's offensive, only evil people want to discuss it, so let's ban it).

[Kirbmarc]

Ouch!

Poor old Peezus is getting lynched by the Gaadfather...

(The entire conversation is pretty funny...and tragic)

Peezie is yesterday's news. FTB is plummeting into obscurity. He's alienated pretty much everyone, even his SJW allies.

I predict that the same thing is going to happen to David Futrelle and wehuntedthemamooth quite soon. He's been a dick to too many loud trans activists to remain an "ally".

In the end the only way to be successful as a SJW is to be a woman/POC/trans woman (or collaborate with a woman/POC/trans woman who's the "face" of your business). Male allies (straight or gays, it makes little difference these days) are only chew toys and cannon fodder, especially if they're white. They're useful for a while, but ultimately expendable.

Hell, even white women are at risk unless they're also fat activists or neuroatypical.

[jimhabegger]

As for Holocaust denial — doubting it or the scope — no decent person can have an interest in that.
...
There aren't a lot who doubt the existence of Genghis Khan's invasion, or want to eagerly dispute the existence of the Defenestation of Prague, the Second. Why not? Let's not fool ourselves. There are exactly two groups who have a motive to doubt it: Nazis and (potentially) academics. Nobody else.

False. I'm not a Nazi, or an academic, and I want anyone, academic or not, to be free to disagree with any part of any holocaust narrative, and to promote any contrary view of their own, about what actually happened.

[Brive1987]

[.img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... oe.svg.png[/img]

And when the FT moves to Canada we will own the pit.

Fuck X`s and 0`s. Checkmate Americans. That`s Chess, for the 99.9999%of Americans. who don`t know.

Oh I think not.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... ABJvkqmL6Q

[Cnutella]

No time for legos. We've been busy passing important illuminati code on to future generations.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/56 ... cba3ea.jpg

Not to mention the less subtle Illuminism hidden here:

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dollar- ... 347062.jpg

You have to look quite closely, but the curious writing above and below the mundane pyramid and eye combination design appears to be written in American, but the words are gibberish. There's strong evidence to suggest that this an Illuminati code created by Weishaupt. Also note that history shows that Zwack was raised by animal trainers in a circus before running away to become a nobleman, and strongly encouraged his Illuminati brethren to worship seals as an embodiment of enlightenment values and because of their obviously luciferic connotations.

[paddybrown]

[.img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... oe.svg.png[/img]

And when the FT moves to Canada we will own the pit.

Fuck X`s and 0`s. Checkmate Americans. That`s Chess, for the 99.9999%of Americans. who don`t know.

Oh I think not.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... ABJvkqmL6Q

I prefer this one, from XKCD:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/upside_down_map.png

[Cnutella]

You are both wrong:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0 ... ts-at-once

It's Space X. Within the next three years this - a less than 20 year old private company - will have the most advanced, most powerful, and most extensive space infrastructure in the world.

Free enterprise by an American company? Contracting with the US government? That's as American as fuck. Elon Musk might as well be wear a comically tall Uncle Sam stovepipe hat while sporting a giant red white and blue foam finger with "USA #1!" written on it in a suitably Patriotic font

[VickyCaramel]

As for Holocaust denial — doubting it or the scope — no decent person can have an interest in that.
...
There aren't a lot who doubt the existence of Genghis Khan's invasion, or want to eagerly dispute the existence of the Defenestation of Prague, the Second. Why not? Let's not fool ourselves. There are exactly two groups who have a motive to doubt it: Nazis and (potentially) academics. Nobody else.

Uhm...what about contrarians by nature? Or people who like to speculate about history and counterfactuals? Or simply conspiracy theorists? Hell, Noam Chomsky, who's not a Nazi by any means, defended Robert Faurisson, a prominent Holocaust denialist, on free speech grounds.

Anyway I don't think that you can limit speech based on the "decency" of people who might say something. I understand that Germans are sensitive about this specific argument, and no, banning Holocaust denial doesn't necessarily justify a slipper slope, but it's based on the same flawed logic of other "thoughtcrime" arguments: speculations on the motives and inner depravity of the speaker instead of focusing on the consequences of the speech itself.

Holocaust laws have been a slippery slope, it's just most people don't know it. It is illegal to 'diminish' the holocaust.

Historians I used to know were in fear of printing anything which might contradict any part of the holocaust orthodoxy. And all sorts of bullshit is part of the orthodoxy, not necessarily because respected holocaust historians say it is, you also have to remember that the holocaust and reparations/compensation has been in the German courts hundreds of times. This means judges have already ruled some rather silly nonsense to be fact.

At this point you are probably assuming I am talking about issues about how many died or functions of gas chambers or disposal of bodies... but I am not. It is the details. If somebody says that somebody or some unit was somewhere, at some time, doing something, suddenly that is an indisputable holocaust fact. If it so happens that they were actually somewhere else doing something completely unrelated to the holocaust, it is potentially a crime to point this out, even though may be central to a completely different story.

If you did print something which contradicted holocaust history, even unknowingly, the risks are kind of small.
Firstly holocaust fandom has to find you and they are unlikely to be reading history books about obscure topics. Although they would threaten you with the law, what they will actually do is lobby the publisher to have the book withdrawn. What the historians I used to know feared most was that they would be denied access to European institutions which hold records. And for those outside the EU, that they would be denied visas.

Therefore, I used to be tasked with searching google for people and place names to ensure that they hadn't been previously mentioned in court cases or the holocaust literature. On the couple of occasions that we did run into trouble we found that the information was coming from Israeli "historians" who had never published a single word except in Hebrew, and very little in Hebrew. Military history is actually a very small world, and although there are some authors who keep themselves to themselves or are even hostile to others, you generally know who everybody is. So it is rather strange to run across a world renowned expert that nobody has ever heard of. Just saying.

Sherman tanks! I just thought i would mention it so you guys can spend page after page arguing about it. History is a never ending argument over how to interpret the facts... unless it's the holocaust in which case there is only one interpretation and the facts don't matter.

[Cnutella]

I predict that the same thing is going to happen to David Futrelle and wehuntedthemamooth quite soon. He's been a dick to too many loud trans activists to remain an "ally".

Were you able to scare anything up on this? I poked around WHTM and couldn't find anything very interesting... they still seem to have a complement of transgendered commenters who didn't seem to have any beef with Futrelle.

I haven't tried Twitter though.

[Brive1987]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/upside_down_map.png

That hurts my head.

Plus I think I spotted something wrong.

[Hunt]

In the end the only way to be successful as a SJW is to be a woman/POC/trans woman (or collaborate with a woman/POC/trans woman who's the "face" of your business). Male allies (straight or gays, it makes little difference these days) are only chew toys and cannon fodder, especially if they're white. They're useful for a while, but ultimately expendable.

Hell, even white women are at risk unless they're also fat activists or neuroatypical.

I think a lot of SJWs kind of see the writing on the wall. You don't hear the expression "wrong side of history" a lot anymore. I think it's because the smarter SJWs (which doesn't include PZ) realize SJWism is going about as well as McCarthyism circa 1954. It's nowhere near dead, but there's definitely a 1944-ish Berlin feel to it.

[Bhurzum]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/upside_down_map.png

That hurts my head.

Plus I think I spotted something wrong.

Is this the nascent science of Geolology? Specifically - plate tardtonics?

My coat, I'll get it...

[deLurch]

I was under the impression that Elyse had been locked up in some sort of a mental health facility. Did I imagine this?

She had taken a few selfies in the ambulance on the way to the rape report/emergency funny farm.

But beyond that I am unaware of any announcement here that she ended up getting long or medium term care.

[deLurch]

OK. This is funny. This is how you 'protest.'
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/protester-u ... -mock-him/

[Tribble]

When prohibition was dropped in the US and moved to government supervised licensing, legitimate businesses could, once again, operate in the alcohol business. This change pretty much ended the criminal participation in the production, distribution and sale of alcohol.

However, many states didn't drop all of prohibition at first. And to the extent the did not, they continued to have problems with organized crime, bootleggers, etc. over the years.

So, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be the same for drugs. Especially as we do have real-world case studies that confirm the legitimization, with some state regulation, does work to cut organized crime out of the drug trade.

The media portrays the drug industry as if drug dealers are all like Pablo Escobar. The reality is that most drug dealers earn less than minimum wage. It's not a path out of poverty, even for those who don't sample their own product.

This is true.

[CommanderTuvok]

In the end the only way to be successful as a SJW is to be a woman/POC/trans woman (or collaborate with a woman/POC/trans woman who's the "face" of your business). Male allies (straight or gays, it makes little difference these days) are only chew toys and cannon fodder, especially if they're white. They're useful for a while, but ultimately expendable.

Hell, even white women are at risk unless they're also fat activists or neuroatypical.

I think a lot of SJWs kind of see the writing on the wall. You don't hear the expression "wrong side of history" a lot anymore. I think it's because the smarter SJWs (which doesn't include PZ) realize SJWism is going about as well as McCarthyism circa 1954. It's nowhere near dead, but there's definitely a 1944-ish Berlin feel to it.

True. A lot of them realise they are going to get mocked and humiliated for the positions that they have taken.

However, the seeds that they threw out have taken root with some toxicity - BLM, Islamist apologia, acceptable antisemitism within SJW ranks, the madness on US campuses, the "privilege" argument, etc. It will take time to knock these over.

[deLurch]

The media portrays the drug industry as if drug dealers are all like Pablo Escobar. The reality is that most drug dealers earn less than minimum wage. It's not a path out of poverty, even for those who don't sample their own product.

Most drug dealers are selling to their friends (e.g. pot) so it really isn't a business for them.

But I have heard that about the street dealers. So what is the attraction for them? Is it the same attraction as your common pyramid scheme in which they hope to work their way up the chain to make the big mula? Or is it that being a drug dealer has more street cred than being the table wipe down boy at McDonalds?

[Shatterface]

Hateful little scumbag PZ Myers about William Shatner:

So Leonard Nimoy turns out to be a thoughtful, interesting, enlightened human being, and he dies. William Shatner is a raging dillhole, and he lives forever. It all makes the old Star Trek really hard to watch.

So he was okay with the blatant sexism, the militarism, the lack of gay characters, etc. right up to the point where Shatner cracked a joke about SJWs?

I doubt this cunt ever watched Star Trek.

I doubt he has a TV.

He's the kind of cunt who would boast about an empty corner of the room as if it was a sign of sophistication.

[Shatterface]

Most drug dealers are selling to their friends (e.g. pot) so it really isn't a business for them.

But I have heard that about the street dealers. So what is the attraction for them?

The hours are good.

[Tribble]

Hateful little scumbag PZ Myers about William Shatner:

So Leonard Nimoy turns out to be a thoughtful, interesting, enlightened human being, and he dies. William Shatner is a raging dillhole, and he lives forever. It all makes the old Star Trek really hard to watch.

Yeah, what a pity that Shatner didn't die instead, right? Because he made fun of SJWs, and even -- oh, horror -- cracked some sexist jokes (apparently -- Myers gives no evidence). So he deserves to die. That's PZ Myers for you. The raging asshole of FreethoughtBlogs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160720061 ... /bye-bill/

(Get well, FT.)

The problem is Myers has no sense of humor and Schattner does. For example, Schattner went balls-deep on SNL all those years ago in the 'Get a Life!' skit making fun of Trekkies, which were a significant appearance and autograph fee revenue stream for him. It was funnier than hell, and we didn't spend our days raging about the skit.

[deLurch]

Most drug dealers are selling to their friends (e.g. pot) so it really isn't a business for them.
But I have heard that about the street dealers. So what is the attraction for them?

The hours are good.

Hmm... they get to choose when they work, and how long they work. No one really bosses them around so long as their source get's their money. Plus it is highly social. Plus free drugs...ish (oops, there goes the profits). Maybe they are addicted to the job.

No one wants to hire a burn out who is high all the time. Maybe it is the only job they can land. Especially after they get an arrest record.

[feathers]

So he [PZ] was okay with the blatant sexism, the militarism, the lack of gay characters, etc. right up to the point where Shatner cracked a joke about SJWs?

I doubt this cunt ever watched Star Trek.

Oh he did alright, but that was before he let SJWesus into his heart.

[Shatterface]

The arrest record is a big part of it.

I've worked with ex-offenders. The law creates drug crime, first by criminalising behaviour that is none of the State's business, then by locking people into a cycle of criminal behaviour.

[deLurch]

Interesting case.
Yale: Dishwasher who smashed "racist" window can return to work
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yale-dishwa ... n-to-work/
https://i.sli.mg/rCOYeS.png

I had no luck in finding out how old that window piece was.

[John D]

Interesting case.
Yale: Dishwasher who smashed "racist" window can return to work
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yale-dishwa ... n-to-work/
https://i.sli.mg/rCOYeS.png

I had no luck in finding out how old that window piece was.

I really fucking hate people sometimes. They should have made him fix that window by hand as part of his sentence. Then they should have made him read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" out loud in the University square. Then they should have made him write the Emancipation Proclamation one hundred times. Finally, he should be forced to have the Civil Rights act of 1968 tattooed on his penis.

[MarcusAu]

Most drug dealers are selling to their friends (e.g. pot) so it really isn't a business for them.

But I have heard that about the street dealers. So what is the attraction for them?

The hours are good.

"The wages of sin are death, but the hours are good and the perks are fantastic" - Anthrax Ghoushadow BA*

*Batchelor of Awfulness

http://britishcomics.wikia.com/wiki/Anthrax_Ghoulshadow

[Sulman]

I am not saying solar is the future. I am saying with the rate technology is going it's foolish to say we know what the dominant energy source will be.

I can tell you right now, with absolute certainty that the power density of U-235 is far higher than sunlight hitting any part of our earth especially where I live. And that's only in the bright midday sun. Try buying a solar cell to trickle charge your battery. Cheaper just to buy a back-up battery.

Rickover had it right 60 years ago. He knew that cheap energy was crucial to any country's economy and society, and that nuclear was the only option.

[dog puke]

@ Based Zebra

[youtube.]BGzFr9qxBRk[/youtube]

Thanks! May not have time to watch the whole thing for a couple of days, but as a fan of FIRE & of Dreger I'm looking forward to it.

Couple of things:
1) "Comments are disabled for this video" - looks like that may not be something special for the Dreger speech but instead is FIRE's standard approach at their youtube channel. (Tad ironic, but it's their space.)

2) Heterodox Academy suggests that "If you can’t watch the whole thing, jump to 29:00 to hear her (7 minute) summary and conclusion."

3) Sorta related, here's a recent short cartoon clip from FIRE:
[youtube.]lsEfKRURSsQ[/youtube]

Re:

1) Yes, it is more than a tad ironic - quite irksome in fact.
2) The last 25 minutes or so are a (rather non-essential) Q&A
3) Gotta like Ben Franklin.

[Dave]

New guy just started work, he`s from Ghana. His name is Abraham. I thought immediately of the world`s first Jew. Wrong. He was named after Abraham Lincoln. Blacks in Africa name their children after a US president who has been dead for 150 years.

Is this better or worse than naming kids after some dipshit with a slingshot whos been dead for 3000 years?