The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39901

Post by Kirbmarc »

Credit where credit is due: Taslima Nasreen has written a sensible article on Islam.

I wonder what PZ thinks of this:
Religious leaders are looking at educated youth for Islamisation because they need talented young people as recruits. They have grandiose dreams to control the world, for which they need to recruit bright young educated men with brains. The old stereotypes of poor, underprivileged and frustrated people turning to religion has changed. Educated young people are turning to religion and are being groomed through Islamic education and the Quran within their families.
and this:
There has been a lot of talk about the misinterpretation of the Quran by preachers. But like the Quran there are other holy books too which have also doubtlessly been misinterpreted by fundamentalists — but that has not given rise to Christian or Jewish terrorists who slaughter people. Only one religion creates terrorists who kill innocents around the world.
OMG Islamophobia! Islam is the religion of oppressed brown people! Radical islam isn't the problem!

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39902

Post by Kirbmarc »

The article is actually an interiew, but the point stands.

ffs
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39903

Post by ffs »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.

http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Snopes is full of shit these days anyway, but maybe they're right.
http://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-s ... -massacre/

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39904

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I haven't read the full Snopes page. Was just going on first instinct. Now, if anybody wants an accurate translation of what was said, give me the sources and I'll do it.

Cnutella
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39905

Post by Cnutella »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:My band's account is #blockedbyShives as well, which means somebody must have put it on some block list. Seeing the people the account has interacted with beside music stuff, it can only be FTB and their pals being responsible. Fucking wimps.
Apparently Steve may be autoblocking based on whether you follow anyone on the naughty list.

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39906

Post by Kirbmarc »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I haven't read the full Snopes page. Was just going on first instinct. Now, if anybody wants an accurate translation of what was said, give me the sources and I'll do it.
The original source:

A couple of quotes:
M. le président Georges Fenech. Pour l’information de la commission d’enquête, monsieur P. T., pouvez-vous nous dire comment vous avez appris qu’il y avait eu des actes de barbarie à l’intérieur du Bataclan : décapitations, éviscérations, énucléations… ?

M. T. P. Après l’assaut, nous étions avec des collègues au niveau du passage Saint-Pierre-Amelot lorsque j’ai vu sortir un enquêteur en pleurs qui est allé vomir. Il nous a dit ce qu’il avait vu. Je ne connaissais pas ce collègue, mais il avait été tellement choqué que c’est sorti naturellement.

M. Alain Marsaud. Les actes de tortures se sont passés au deuxième étage ?

M. T. P. Je pense, car je suis entré au niveau du rez-de-chaussée où il n’y avait rien de tel, seulement des personnes touchées par des balles.
Snopes translated the exchange as:
Mr President Fenech For the information of the inquiry, Mr. PT, can you tell us how you learned that there had been acts of barbarism within the Bataclan: beheadings, evisceration, enucleations?

MTP After the assault, we were with colleagues at the passage Saint-Pierre Amelot when I saw tears streaming out of the eyes of an investigator who went to vomit. He told us what he had seen. I did not know this colleague, but he was so shocked that it went to see it myself, naturally.

Alain Marsaud. Acts of torture happened on the second floor?

MTP I think, as I entered at the ground floor I saw there no such thing had occurred, only people hit by bullets.
Another selection:
M. le président. À la suite des attentats de novembre, il a été évoqué la commission d’actes de barbarie.

M. François Molins. C’est une rumeur. Les médecins légistes ont été formels : il n’y a pas eu d’acte de barbarie, pas d’utilisation, notamment, d’armes blanches. Selon un témoignage, les testicules d’une personne auraient été coupés, mais aucune constatation n’a permis de le corroborer.
translated by snopes as:
Mr. President. Following the November attacks, he was referred to the commission of barbaric acts.

François Molins. It's a rumor. Forensic doctors were categorical: there was no act of barbarism, no use, including knives. According to a witness, the testicles of a victim were cut off, but no findings have corroborated it.
Those are two pretty bad translations ("pas d’utilisation, notamment, d’armes blanches, d'armes blanches" as "no use, including knives"?) but the meaning doesn't seem to be distorted to me. Of course there's a lot of context to both quotes, and a native speaker of French might catch some nuances that are lost to someone who only speaks it as a second language.

What do you think, Phil?

gurugeorge
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39907

Post by gurugeorge »

Shatterface wrote:
gurugeorge wrote:It's an interesting question, of how far down the rabbit hole do you go with this stuff?

I started off as a socialist when I was a kid, up to being a young man. Ploughed through Das Kapital and everything, at one point seriously considered joining the CPGB (no half-measures for me :) ). But at some point I thought I'd better try and understand the "enemy" to be able to fight it better, started reading Mises, Hayek, even Rand and libertarian stuff. (Shades of Christians taking that Paul - or is it Acts? - passage seriously and trying to get to grips with everything so they can do apologetics better, and turning into atheists.)

It gradually dawned on me that pursuit of equality of result necessarily breaches equality of treatment, and that equality of treatment is more fundamental. I came to realize (by my late 20s/early 30s) that I'm actually a classical liberal, and that there was something about the Left that bamboozled me.

What bamboozled me is this. The Left tribal intuition is the Rousseauian one, that "man is born free but is everywhere in chains", and that the "chains" consist wholly of societal structures. The image is of man as essentially good but corrupted by external influences. Now, basically still, even after all these years, I am of that tribe. Not that I think man is fundamentally good, but rather that he's fundamentally good enough (bell-curve distribution of trait), and definitely not fundamentally bad in the way that some religionists believe (such that he needs the restraint of divine command to make him good).

But the harder the Left, the more this idea is taken seriously, the more the idea that the if the "chains" are removed, man's essential goodness will shine through and Lennon's utopia will come. In that light, anything and everything that looks like it's keeping those "chains" in place is the enemy, and the light at the end of the tunnel is humanity's only hope. It's this quasi-religious feeling that drives the Left, and the harder the Left, the more religiously the feeling is held, the more one works for the positive downfall of anything short of that envisioned Utopia. In this case, "the perfect is the enemy of the good''.
I have to disagree. That Rousseauian idea that we are all about us in chains is more a Libertarian idea than a Leftwing one.

The Left don't believe that if we were freed our innate goodness would shine through: if they did, they wouldn't be forging manacles of their own.

Wherever the Left have come to power there have been more laws, not fewer; more state intervention in schooling, in the arts, and in people's private life. The Left believe in the micromanagement of our private lives; what we say, what we read or hear, what games we play, what we eat or drink, who we sleep with.

I don't see any of that in Lennon's utopia, or William Morris, or the work of Orwell or Oscar Wilde. That utopian Leftism, based on the innate goodness of mankind, is entirely suppressed by the Statist Left and their SJW who aspire to State power.

Authoritarianism is based on the view that people are innately evil and so must be controlled by the State. That's a Hobbesian view, not a Rousseauian one.

The Rousseauian view now seems to be fallen by default, into the hands of Rightwing Libertarians like at Reason; it is rejected entirely by the Regressive Left, and by the Trumpist Right at Breitbart.

It's the Libertarians making the case that the conflict between police and blacks in the UK has its roots in economics and unjust laws, not racism. The Left ignore laws brought in to raise revenue because they believe in taxation as a form of social engineering; the authoritarian Right just think the police need more guns.
It's not really contradictory if you think about it - if the "wrong" social conditioning is blocking the path to utopia, then the "right" form of social conditioning has to be put in place to counter it.

Eventually social conditioning will no longer be necessary because people will behave in the "right" way naturally. There's always the idea of the "dictatorship of the Proletariat" and its analogs being a TEMPORARY condition. Authoritarianism is also necessary because some people (e.g. in the US today, Right-wingers, old-fashioned liberals, Christians, etc.) are so recalcitrant and so far gone in their conditioning by capitalism/the patriarchy/etc., that they need strong medicine to get them to see the light - and meanwhile they keep fucking things up, so they need to be stopped.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39908

Post by Shatterface »

Baton Rouge: 'Three US police officers shot'

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co ... p/36820782

Pitchguest
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39909

Post by Pitchguest »

Kirbmarc wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.

http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Interesting. Tanks for sharing.
I'm confused. Is the report debunking that the French government covered up a terrorist attack happened at the Bataclan in November 2015, or is the report debunking that a terrorist attack happened at all?

Cnutella
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39910

Post by Cnutella »

gurugeorge wrote: Eventually social conditioning will no longer be necessary because people will behave in the "right" way naturally. There's always the idea of the "dictatorship of the Proletariat" and its analogs being a TEMPORARY condition. Authoritarianism is also necessary because some people (e.g. in the US today, Right-wingers, old-fashioned liberals, Christians, etc.) are so recalcitrant and so far gone in their conditioning by capitalism/the patriarchy/etc., that they need strong medicine to get them to see the light - and meanwhile they keep fucking things up, so they need to be stopped.

I agree with you to a large extent. Utopian thinking is woven through many different left wing ideologies, although I think that was always the case. Some leftists remain more obviously Marxist, although these days I see a lot of criticisms of capitalism and x (x being the patriarchy, or racism, or whatever) with little to no detail of what system would be capitalism's replacement. In a lot of cases, I don't believe the person espousing such a view is necessarily a communist, but rather is expressing dissatisfaction with the current system - "anything has to be better than this". I don't know if they even believe in the innate goodness of man so much as they do in the immate goodness of specific groups.

What I haven't seen a lot of in today's left is much effort to innovate around or build on political theory, but rather a focus on behavioral and sociological observations as some kind of replacement. Even the right wing seems to be doing better at this. At least the Alt Right is an innovation of sorts, even if it's at its heart a traditionalist movement. Today's left seems to be preoccupied with signs, examples and social issues unencumbered by nuance or a broad historical and theoretical perspective.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39911

Post by Billie from Ockham »

AndrewV69 wrote:I dare you to google ... wait for it ... wait for it ... 'female pidgeotto porn'

I double dog dare you!
Thanks for the suggestion.

- P Z Myers

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e43f55d50b9 ... 2_1280.png

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39912

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.

http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Snopes is full of shit these days anyway, but maybe they're right.
It would be fun to start a meta-Snopes site....

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39913

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Bhurzum wrote:Remember: in space, no one can hear you "Yaaar!"
http://trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tash ... one110.jpg

Sunder
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39914

Post by Sunder »

deLurch wrote:
comhcinc wrote:[youtube]rmei1rCxKtw[/youtube]
Wow. I am blocked too. And I never bothered to visit his twitter in the first place.
Any way to determine what list I am on?
Here's what gets me about this.

So they admit outright that they were defending Shives against people in their own comment section long after it was excusable, and that their commenters were correct when they repeatedly tried to warn them that this guy had gone off the deep end.

Cue someone in the comments calling out their excessive generosity toward Aron Ra (and to a lesser extent Matt Dillahunty) in the comments, and their response being: "Bleach. Drink it."

So yeah, great that you've finally come around on Shives, but it took him actually blocking you guys in addition to the entire rest of the known universe for that to click. Way to be as fucking far behind the curve as possible.

Bhurzum
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39915

Post by Bhurzum »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
Bhurzum wrote:Remember: in space, no one can hear you "Yaaar!"
http://trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tash ... one110.jpg
If they can't hear me "yaar" then it's safe to say they won't hear me fap...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 1b9616.jpg

To think I ignored Star Trek for all those years :o

Suet Cardigan
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39916

Post by Suet Cardigan »

Sunder wrote:
deLurch wrote:
comhcinc wrote:[youtube]rmei1rCxKtw[/youtube]
Wow. I am blocked too. And I never bothered to visit his twitter in the first place.
Any way to determine what list I am on?
Here's what gets me about this.

So they admit outright that they were defending Shives against people in their own comment section long after it was excusable, and that their commenters were correct when they repeatedly tried to warn them that this guy had gone off the deep end.

Cue someone in the comments calling out their excessive generosity toward Aron Ra (and to a lesser extent Matt Dillahunty) in the comments, and their response being: "Bleach. Drink it."

So yeah, great that you've finally come around on Shives, but it took him actually blocking you guys in addition to the entire rest of the known universe for that to click. Way to be as fucking far behind the curve as possible.
Another comment from the video:
AronRa was not saying that; he just expressed himself badly. When he said "If you are not a feminist, you are sexist by definition", he was saying that the definition of a feminist is a non-sexist. It's pretty clear when you listen to what he said in context, and listen to everything he has said in defence of himself since. Now, I don't agree with his rigid adherence to a dictionary definition either, but he is certainly not saying that everyone who doesn't identify as a feminist is sexist. Aron is smarter than that.
Am I missing something? Saying "If you are not a feminist, you are sexist by definition" doesn't mean that non-feminists are sexist?

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39917

Post by CommanderTuvok »

OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39918

Post by CommanderTuvok »

BTW, more cops shot dead in Baton Rouge.

After all, leaders in the Black Lives Matter movement have been encouraging more killing of cops, or "pigs", as they would have it at Free Thought Blogs.

Cnutella
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39919

Post by Cnutella »

CommanderTuvok wrote:OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.
The Borg took it surprisingly easy on her: "I am FanService of the Borg..." Also, based on her acting ability, they should have called her Two By Four.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39920

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Cnutella wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.
The Borg took it surprisingly easy on her: "I am FanService of the Borg..." Also, based on her acting ability, they should have called her Two By Four.
The Commander forgave her acting 20 years ago, around the time The Commander was a teenager.

:shhh:

ffs
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39921

Post by ffs »

CommanderTuvok wrote:OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.
What the hell do YOU know of Star Trek Voyager??!!?

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39922

Post by CommanderTuvok »

ffs wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.
What the hell do YOU know of Star Trek Voyager??!!?
:ugeek:

Bhurzum
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39923

Post by Bhurzum »

Cnutella wrote:...they should have called her Two By Four.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tigzy
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39924

Post by Tigzy »

Christ - has anyone seen Demba Ba's injury yet? If not, take a gander at this...but have a sick bag ready:

[youtube]ewZTe9xJbJM[/youtube]

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39925

Post by Bhurzum »

Tigzy wrote:Christ - has anyone seen Demba Ba's injury yet? If not, take a gander at this...but have a sick bag ready:

[youtube]ewZTe9xJbJM[/youtube]
Yeah, he might want to favour his other leg for a few games :D

ffs
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39926

Post by ffs »

CommanderTuvok wrote:
ffs wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:OMG. That picture of Seven of Nine. Can't remember that on the show!

Fap. Fap. Fappidy Fap.
What the hell do YOU know of Star Trek Voyager??!!?
:ugeek:
:P

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39927

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Bhurzum wrote:If they can't hear me "yaar" then it's safe to say they won't hear me fap...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 1b9616.jpg
And she is only a 7 on a nine-point scale, from what I've read.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39928

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Aneris wrote:
Keating wrote:So, my dad brought up a good point with me. Since Germany refused Erdogan's plane landing, and the coup lost, does that mean that Germany has hence force screwed itself even more in terms of lost bargaining power of any kind of deal with Turkey?
I see this wishful thinking very often, how we are overrun by refugees, or how regressives have taken over the land, or how the brexit will hurt us terribly, or some other doom and gloom. We are doing quite fine, actually. It's known that Russian propaganda spreads such nonsense (they were comically exposed one time) and it seems anglo-american conservatives also play a role.

I tried to find the source for the allegation that Erdogan even wanted asylum in Germany, but that was quite interesting. In german, I only found obscure news that reference Focus (a german conservative tabloid) that itself references MSNBC. Digging further, NBC references a tweet that was since deleted, from the conservative Politico. Interesting, isn't it? Daily Beast picked it up and spread it wide in the anglo-american world. Looks like “some people say” propaganda spread through mostly conservative channels. I am happy to be corrected, though.

That's probably nothing more than that. It also strikes me as odd that German officials allegedly decided in an instant whether they grant him asylum. It's not a usual situation, but never-the-less, you'd have to drum some people together and such, and none of that was ever noted by anyone when I followed the events.

Next, we have to believe that Erdogan would — of all places — seek asylum in Germany, despite that the relations to him and Turkey were at a very low point. He could pick Denmark, Switzerland, France, Austria, Poland, Netherlands and so on. Why Germany? In fact, German officials themselves had to leave Turkey recently because the situation got rather icy. The reason for this are manifold, but briefly: Germans were vocal about Erdogans treatment of the press and overall non-pluralistic behaviors, and of course threatened that he'll never get the Turkey into the EU this way. Satirists, famously Böhmermann, added their share and it became political quickly when Merkel said she also doesn't like his satirical “poem”. But being Merkel, she weaseled out of the situation by showing that not politics but courts decide on such matters and that her statement was merely her opinion. Though, the politicians more or less all thought the old fashioned paragraph was obsolete. To add insult to injury to Erdogan, German politicians declared the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact. I'm not sure why now, but it seemed like a dumb councidence. That's when it got uncomfortable for German officials in the Turkey. Hence, Erdogan wanting to come to Germany is highly implausible.

Next, its said he allegedly even flew all the way to Germany from his vacation and was denied landing? This tall tale grows ever more fantastic and he was back later on? The news on TV depicted it such that he never even left Turkey. He was on vacation, then in some secure location and then denied landing in Istanbul at first, but his side won, and he was back soon. I'm not sure about the exact events, but I didn't see anyone reporting he was touring around in Europe (necessarily, since Germany is in North-Central Europe).
Apparently he was already in Germany vacationing at the lovely Taharrush Resort. :rimshot:

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39929

Post by feathers »

VickyCaramel wrote:I am getting to the point where I feel that this can only end in war between Islam and the Secular West, I wish we could get it over with.
Question is, whom do we attack and what are the terms of victory?

WWII was won when all the German soldier were back in Germany, the Italians in Italy and the Japanese in Japan. Will this war be over when all Islamists are back in Islamistan?

As to whom to attack, that is always a problem in asymmetrical warfare and this war is very asymmetric indeed. We could of course follow Steers' advice and nuke Mecca for a start...

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39930

Post by Bhurzum »

Billie from Ockham wrote:And she is only a 7 on a nine-point scale, from what I've read.
Well, at the risk of saying something crude - I'd stick my tongue that far up her arsehole I'd be able to pick the food-scraps out of her teeth :D

Who says we Scots are unromantic, huh?

feathers
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Re: RegressiveWiki's Broken Moral Compass.

#39931

Post by feathers »

If leading questions could govern a nation, this question would be the Führer.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39932

Post by feathers »

johnself wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
johnself wrote:I might regret asking this but does anyone have a suggestion for a nice place to go for holiday in Europe? I am thinking something like a place in Italy or something of that sort.
You can always come to Nice. Just like insurance scams and rackets, we seem to have paid our due for a few months of quiet...
I am not 100% that's how it works :-). I have already been to Nice unfortunately, that's why I am thinking something more like Italy or Croatia
How about Corsica?

As to Croatia, there must be muslims in Split, but it's hardly headscarf city like (fill in any bloody western-European city you care to name).
Also Prague seemed to be virtually muslim-free, judging by the looks at least.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: RegressiveWiki's Broken Moral Compass.

#39933

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

feathers wrote:
If leading questions could govern a nation, this question would be the Führer.
This poll leaves me flabbergasted! I'd never have imagined a whole 16 people visited rationalwiki.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39934

Post by deLurch »

InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.
http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Thanks for the correction.

InfraRedBucket
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39935

Post by InfraRedBucket »

deLurch wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.
http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Thanks for the correction.
Well. I eagerly await Phil's more reliable ranslation of what was originally said.
However this point is worth repeating from the Snopes report. How could you keep such details from the public domain
and is it a co-incidence the rumours only emerged after the Nice atrocity?
Even if the French government hadn't made public their findings about torture and evisceration at the Bataclan prior to the attacks in Nice, the post-Bastille Day attack rumor operated on the assumption such a coverup was even possible. By all accounts, 89 people died at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015, while another 200 were wounded but survived, and many more escaped unscathed. Contemporaneous reports estimated that 1,000 people were in attendance at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015 with 700 of them were physically unharmed. Had the French government opted to cover up acts of torture and emasculation at the venue, there was nothing stopping the vast majority of surviving witnesses from sharing their stories. None did.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39936

Post by feathers »

CommanderTuvok wrote:Yeah, but surely an increasingly Islamified country such as Turkey couldn't ever be a member of NATO and a potential member of the European Union. Could they!

:think:
They may end up in the Pakistan Straddle™. That is when you're a military non-signed ally of NATO whilst your country is literally teeming with NATO enemies.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39937

Post by deLurch »

feathers wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:I am getting to the point where I feel that this can only end in war between Islam and the Secular West, I wish we could get it over with.
Question is, whom do we attack and what are the terms of victory?

WWII was won when all the German soldier were back in Germany, the Italians in Italy and the Japanese in Japan. Will this war be over when all Islamists are back in Islamistan?

As to whom to attack, that is always a problem in asymmetrical warfare and this war is very asymmetric indeed. We could of course follow Steers' advice and nuke Mecca for a start...
Woah. War? WTF. Too far too soon to be begging for.

What we have are native & 1st generation islamists losing their shit committing acts of terrorism, not to mention flat of terrorists sneaking into Europe.

First step is to secure the borders so that your know who is coming & and out for controlled immigration.

The next step is uncertain. Trumps initial political proposal of temporarily stopping all immigration of Islam sounds to be a step too far, but is preferable to is what is happening now. Trump's 2nd proposal of stopping immigration from terrorist nations sounds better, but we could probably do better. What the Swiss are doing sounds to be a bit much, but is less over the top than Trump's proposal, and also appears to be effective.

I say we look at what various other countries are doing to control immigration of potential radicalized elements, and see what is effective.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39938

Post by MarcusAu »

Whenever I see SN talk about that new game - this is what springs to mind

[youtube]jQEu1imXpFE[/youtube]

It's set in an alternative future where the population of Australia has been wiped out and (almost) entirely replaced by regional english speakers, or voice actors doing dodgy American accents.

Hope she finds it as enjoyable as this was.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39939

Post by deLurch »

Bhurzum wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:And she is only a 7 on a nine-point scale, from what I've read.
Well, at the risk of saying something crude - I'd stick my tongue that far up her arsehole I'd be able to pick the food-scraps out of her teeth :D
Who says we Scots are unromantic, huh?
You Scots really love your haggis.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39940

Post by MarcusAu »

deLurch wrote:
Bhurzum wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:And she is only a 7 on a nine-point scale, from what I've read.
Well, at the risk of saying something crude - I'd stick my tongue that far up her arsehole I'd be able to pick the food-scraps out of her teeth :D
Who says we Scots are unromantic, huh?
You Scots really love your haggis.
Isn't that the hairy thing that dangles between their legs?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39941

Post by free thoughtpolice »

feathers wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:Yeah, but surely an increasingly Islamified country such as Turkey couldn't ever be a member of NATO and a potential member of the European Union. Could they!

:think:
They may end up in the Pakistan Straddle™. That is when you're a military non-signed ally of NATO whilst your country is literally teeming with NATO enemies.
Or you could be an ally like Saudi Arabia which has been crucial for the stability of the middle east. :twatson:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39942

Post by Service Dog »

Cnutella wrote:
Cartimandua
15 July 2016 at 5:58 am

Excuse me if I don’t weep a river of tears for 80 privileged people. I have no tears left after mourning the thousands of unremarked deaths directly attributable to Western policy of oppression and racism.
The selective attention paid to this crime, and the weighting accorded it, is itself rampant bigotry.
This may not be a popular view. It is however undeniably true.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160717012 ... -everyone/

Even Pharyngula commenters thought that a step too far, and the general consensus seems to be that Cartimandua is an irredeemable asshole.
It's 'tone policing' to say muslims should air their grievances using words, not trucks.

Quibbling over peaceful protests vs. shooting cops is a 'tone argument' against BLM.
It imposes white standards of what's civilized and what's savage, on black expression.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39943

Post by Service Dog »

Crap. I had an opportunity to use the word 'hegemonic' & did't.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39944

Post by MarcusAu »

Service Dog wrote:Crap. I had an opportunity to use the word 'hegemonic' & did't.
Hedgemonic.jpg
(90.21 KiB) Downloaded 170 times

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39945

Post by feathers »

Spike13 wrote:And his nothing better to do music censoring wife.
I didn't know that, so I just looked it up. Just having such a wife would have been reason enough not to vote for the man.

But then again, it was under Bill Clinton that the odious DMCA and the preposterous Communications Decency Act were passed. Any politician who does not use their veto rights on such matters must without hesitation be evicted from office.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39946

Post by feathers »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Spike13 wrote:And his nothing better to do music censoring wife.
They divorced some time ago.
Let me guess, hubby was listening to Rage Against the Machine?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39947

Post by Really? »

Service Dog wrote:
Cnutella wrote:
Cartimandua
15 July 2016 at 5:58 am

Excuse me if I don’t weep a river of tears for 80 privileged people. I have no tears left after mourning the thousands of unremarked deaths directly attributable to Western policy of oppression and racism.
The selective attention paid to this crime, and the weighting accorded it, is itself rampant bigotry.
This may not be a popular view. It is however undeniably true.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160717012 ... -everyone/

Even Pharyngula commenters thought that a step too far, and the general consensus seems to be that Cartimandua is an irredeemable asshole.
It's 'tone policing' to say muslims should air their grievances using words, not trucks.

Quibbling over peaceful protests vs. shooting cops is a 'tone argument' against BLM.
It imposes white standards of what's civilized and what's savage, on black expression.
I wonder what the current FTB commenting pool thinks of "privileged coffee sippers."

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39948

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Regarding Cartimandua's rants about the Nice incident: What are the chances ze is a poe? It seems to me that he has just repeated remarks made by PZ and baboons about past islamist incidents.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39949

Post by InfraRedBucket »

Dawkins officially splits from wife Lalla Ward.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... -24-years/
Our marriage, like everyone’s, is a private matter and we are not prepared to share any details. Suffice to say it is true that we recently separated entirely amicably.
Obviously, this remains a difficult time, one which we simply will not discuss any further publicly. We would, however, like to stress that we shall always be friends and that we will, of course, continue to work together.

Scented Nectar
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39950

Post by Scented Nectar »

MarcusAu wrote:Whenever I see SN talk about that new game - this is what springs to mind

[youtube]jQEu1imXpFE[/youtube]

It's set in an alternative future where the population of Australia has been wiped out and (almost) entirely replaced by regional english speakers, or voice actors doing dodgy American accents.

Hope she finds it as enjoyable as this was.
If you found that show enjoyable enough that you'd want to watch never-ending new episodes for every hour of every day for the rest of your life, then I'm expecting that I'll find the game just as enjoyable as you find that show. I'm so addicted even before its release. I might record my first playing reaction along with the gameplay screen capture, but maybe not upload the reaction part since I'm probably going to do something embarrassing like tear up and make silly noises.

Really?
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39951

Post by Really? »

InfraRedBucket wrote:Dawkins officially splits from wife Lalla Ward.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... -24-years/
Our marriage, like everyone’s, is a private matter and we are not prepared to share any details. Suffice to say it is true that we recently separated entirely amicably.
Obviously, this remains a difficult time, one which we simply will not discuss any further publicly. We would, however, like to stress that we shall always be friends and that we will, of course, continue to work together.
Wouldn't it be fucking hilarious if he also came out as polyamorous and revealed that he has many girlfriends and enjoys semen play and is willing to smack a woman during sex, but only if she's into it?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39952

Post by CommanderTuvok »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
deLurch wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.
http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Thanks for the correction.
Well. I eagerly await Phil's more reliable ranslation of what was originally said.
However this point is worth repeating from the Snopes report. How could you keep such details from the public domain
and is it a co-incidence the rumours only emerged after the Nice atrocity?
Even if the French government hadn't made public their findings about torture and evisceration at the Bataclan prior to the attacks in Nice, the post-Bastille Day attack rumor operated on the assumption such a coverup was even possible. By all accounts, 89 people died at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015, while another 200 were wounded but survived, and many more escaped unscathed. Contemporaneous reports estimated that 1,000 people were in attendance at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015 with 700 of them were physically unharmed. Had the French government opted to cover up acts of torture and emasculation at the venue, there was nothing stopping the vast majority of surviving witnesses from sharing their stories. None did.
Yes. At the moment, I am willing to stick with Snopes, on the basis that we should have more independent reports of these atrocities. I realise Snopes has at accusations of an infiltration of SJWs, and that could severely damage its reputation and standing, but I will await for more evidence.

Will be interesting to hear what the French authorities say in response to Heat Street, etc.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39953

Post by Kirbmarc »

deLurch wrote: Woah. War? WTF. Too far too soon to be begging for.

What we have are native & 1st generation islamists losing their shit committing acts of terrorism, not to mention flat of terrorists sneaking into Europe.

First step is to secure the borders so that your know who is coming & and out for controlled immigration.

The next step is uncertain. Trumps initial political proposal of temporarily stopping all immigration of Islam sounds to be a step too far, but is preferable to is what is happening now. Trump's 2nd proposal of stopping immigration from terrorist nations sounds better, but we could probably do better.
How about stopping the foreign imams paid by the gulf states, and cutting their funds? You didn't allow nazi leaders paid by Nazi Germany to preach Nazism in the US.
What the Swiss are doing sounds to be a bit much, but is less over the top than Trump's proposal, and also appears to be effective.
Well I'm hardly neutral on the issue (given where I live) but I think that what we're doing here in Switzerland seems to work, and is far better than Trump's "no Muslims allowed" policy.

What exactly looks like a bit too much for you about Swiss laws? I'd be glad to discuss them, since they're often misinterpreted by the international media. There's a lot of negative press which makes them look more over the top than they are.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39954

Post by Kirbmarc »

CommanderTuvok wrote:
Yes. At the moment, I am willing to stick with Snopes, on the basis that we should have more independent reports of these atrocities. I realise Snopes has at accusations of an infiltration of SJWs, and that could severely damage its reputation and standing, but I will await for more evidence.

Will be interesting to hear what the French authorities say in response to Heat Street, etc.
Snopes' translation is bad but they didn't change the meaning of the sentences they translated. It seems that this time they're right.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39955

Post by Kirbmarc »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
feathers wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:Yeah, but surely an increasingly Islamified country such as Turkey couldn't ever be a member of NATO and a potential member of the European Union. Could they!

:think:
They may end up in the Pakistan Straddle™. That is when you're a military non-signed ally of NATO whilst your country is literally teeming with NATO enemies.
Or you could be an ally like Saudi Arabia which has been crucial for the stability of the middle east. :twatson:
At this point even Iran is better than the Saudis.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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That's All Folks
Posts: 11875
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Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39956

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

InfraRedBucket wrote:
deLurch wrote:
InfraRedBucket wrote:Someone mentioned previously of a "suppressed report of Bataclan torture and mutilation" .
Snopes says it's false.
http://www.snopes.com/france-covered-up ... n-victims/
Thanks for the correction.
Well. I eagerly await Phil's more reliable ranslation of what was originally said.
However this point is worth repeating from the Snopes report. How could you keep such details from the public domain
and is it a co-incidence the rumours only emerged after the Nice atrocity?
Even if the French government hadn't made public their findings about torture and evisceration at the Bataclan prior to the attacks in Nice, the post-Bastille Day attack rumor operated on the assumption such a coverup was even possible. By all accounts, 89 people died at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015, while another 200 were wounded but survived, and many more escaped unscathed. Contemporaneous reports estimated that 1,000 people were in attendance at the Bataclan on 13 November 2015 with 700 of them were physically unharmed. Had the French government opted to cover up acts of torture and emasculation at the venue, there was nothing stopping the vast majority of surviving witnesses from sharing their stories. None did.
The Snope translations, while being of a Google Translate level, do not really change the meaning much. maybe this:
M. Alain Marsaud. Les actes de tortures se sont passés au deuxième étage ?

M. T. P. Je pense, car je suis entré au niveau du rez-de-chaussée où il n’y avait rien de tel, seulement des personnes touchées par des balles.
Translated by Snope to this:
Alain Marsaud. Acts of torture happened on the second floor?

MTP I think, as I entered at the ground floor I saw there no such thing had occurred, only people hit by bullets.
Should read:
Alain Marsaud. The acts of torure happened on the second floor?

M. T. P. I think so, because I entered on the ground-level floor where there was nothing of the sort, only gunshot victims.

Also:
Je ne connaissais pas ce collègue, mais il avait été tellement choqué que c’est sorti naturellement.
Translated by Snope to this:
I did not know this colleague, but he was so shocked that it went to see it myself, naturally.
Should read:
I did not know this colleague, but he was so shocked that it came out naturally [Note from me: I would guess the vomiting]
Aside from the translations, it should be noted that this seems to be a he said/she said situation, on a larger scale.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39957

Post by MarcusAu »

Scented Nectar wrote: If you found that show enjoyable enough that you'd want to watch never-ending new episodes for every hour of every day for the rest of your life, then I'm expecting that I'll find the game just as enjoyable as you find that show. I'm so addicted even before its release. I might record my first playing reaction along with the gameplay screen capture, but maybe not upload the reaction part since I'm probably going to do something embarrassing like tear up and make silly noises.
It's not a show it's an old game

Beneath a Steel Sky

vs

Under No Man's Sky

Conceptual artwork was by the legendary Dave "The Gorilla" Gibbons.

Please keep everyone updated as to your leave of absence.

Countdown for your games release has commenced...

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39958

Post by feathers »

Note how she pulled up her panties over the garters, knowing they'd be easier to peel off that way. Clever Borg.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39959

Post by deLurch »

Kirbmarc wrote:Well I'm hardly neutral on the issue (given where I live) but I think that what we're doing here in Switzerland seems to work, and is far better than Trump's "no Muslims allowed" policy.

What exactly looks like a bit too much for you about Swiss laws? I'd be glad to discuss them, since they're often misinterpreted by the international media. There's a lot of negative press which makes them look more over the top than they are.
Well let's clear some stuff up. People who I think should get the quick boot:
* People who are convicted of robbery & stealing
* People who commit actual rape
* People involved in mass public groping of women as some sort of sport
* People who threaten bars, patrons & staff for serving alcohol
* People who try to enforce Shira law on others
* People who are convicted of acts of violence, murder
* People groping or sexual abusing little girls or boys at swim pools.
* People setting fire to buildings at refugee centers
* People who act like ungrateful twats and protest at refugee encampments demanding more
* Men who have left their family behind
* Men with wives under the age of 16.
* People who threaten other religious minorities from their home states.
* People who plan to live as permanent welfare recipients (allowances for temporary refugees of war torn states)
* Economic immigrants
* People who lie about their identities.
* People who do not have proof of identity or citizenship.
* People who lie about being a child or teen.
* People who lie about their country of origin.
* People who advocate violence and murder
* People who illegally snuck into the country.

OK. That out of the way, these are the early reports I have read:
* Teens getting the boot for not willing to do swim class
* Teens getting the boot for not being willing to shake their female teacher's hands
The above does make me feel uneasy, but I understand the logic of it.

Then we have items like this:
* Wearing sweat pants
* Not greeting people as they walk down the street.

I don't exactly fear slobs, or the sartorial challenged.
And not greeting people down the street sounds a tad over the top. Maybe I had a bad morning and don't feel like talking, or was up all night having a great time. Or maybe I just don't get along with a few people. I don't always feel all that chipper. Or maybe I don't feel like I know people that well.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#39960

Post by Jack Wooster »

feathers wrote:
Note how she pulled up her panties over the garters, knowing they'd be easier to peel off that way. Clever Borg.
How else would she do it? Even a borg must want to pee without unclipping her suspender belt.

Locked