The Refuge of the Toads

[DrokkIt]

I don't hold out much hope for an SJW equivalent.

I'm sure that they could provide the same degree of judgement and condemnation for movies lacking ideological purity.

But the effort required to build and maintain such a site - would be a burden too much to bear.

Also they don't agree on what is triggering, what is empowering and what is educating.
The second someone produces a definitive document that pertains to classify those things I think it would be universally rejected by everyone else in the cohort.

[John D]

What's changed is that instead of focusing on what we have in common, a certain group of control freaks decided that they wanted atheism to mean more than merely a disbelief in gods.

I'd put it slightly differently in that what I liked about the nascent and emerging atheist community was not so much that we focussed on what we had in common, but that, having that particular thing in common we were free to talk about - and disagree about - everything else.

The knowledge that at least everybody in the discussion was free of one particular category of delusion, and that nobody would claim supernatural support at least gave some re-assurance that there was some point to the discussion and a bed-rock of common assumptions about the universe if we dug deep enough.

What was particularly refreshing was the ability to look at some well-work opinions of my own in a new way, and to be prepared to acknowledge cultishness in my own thinking, after all one unescapable fact is that we have the 'same brains' as the religious. The other aspect to it was that it enabled me to look at some conservatives - hitherto just regarded as the opposition - with a degree of fellow-feeling as to 'being on the same side', on some issues at least, and at least to understand how they view their political opponents. We could move in the direction of non-tribalism.

All this meant that there was no sense of pressure for all of us to come to the same conclusions about anything. It was turning into a forum where 'enemies' on one level could connect on different levels.

This is why I'll never forgive the SJW's. They blew this out of the water of course. It wasn't so much what their particular politics was, but rather that they simply couldn't share space with people who didn't draw the same conclusions. So they trashed it and destroyed it.

The question for us SJW-ologists is "Which came first, the chicken (i.e the political takeover which attempted to make atheism just another brand of hard left identity politics) or the egg (The claims of harassment, rape, misogyny etc.)

I am very clear that it is the chicken. It has always been about politics and the reason the harassment claims had to be contrived was that the League had to have an explanation for how a happy and functional (albeit fledgeling) community was in need of such a radical overhaul. So either the atheist community suddenly became "a haven of misogyny" or it always was terrible but the poor women were bullied into silence behind a façade of well-being (depending on which SJW you ask). This gives them the excuse to achieve their real political goal almost as a by-product by saying "Everyone who isn't a feminist or feminist ally is a danger to women !".

The whole "atheist movement" is based on the idea that being an atheist makes you better than everyone else. It makes vile, lazy, disgusting drunks like Watson think she is somehow better than a hard working, polite, Christian woman who volunteers at the PTA.

Of course, some atheists are great people... and some... not so much.

If the atheist movement was really a civil rights movement it would focus on freedom from religious influence in government. Some groups actually do this, but most, like the Humanists, insist they are fully morally superior. Humanism really is a religious organization to some extent. Thus... every time I go to a Humanist meeting we talk about veganism, and animal rights, and feminism, and racism. We almost never talk about the only topic we agree upon... and that is separation of church and state.

The only group I was backing for a while was the Secular Coalition for America. I thought they had the right idea. Their results have been kind of meh. FFRF may be doing the best work so I am thinking about sending some cash their way.

[piginthecity]

Disgusting case of an awful Man stalking his woman victim (from ahead of her) followed by Sealioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37223235

He needs to check his cycling privilege !

[Billie from Ockham]

Disgusting case of an awful Man stalking his woman victim (from ahead of her) followed by Sealioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37223235

He needs to check his cycling privilege !

Here's the video, if you don't have/like Facebook.

[rayshul]

I claim more victim points than Ania Onion whatever, on the basis that I once believed I had recovered from a nasty bout of gastric flu and therefore thought I'd release what would be a quiet, gentle fart in the bed. It should be noted that my bird was in the bed with me at the time.

So Ania can quit the waaahmbulance act, frankly.

But for you, the event wasn't even worth a blog post at the time. Ania's shit in the woods was worth an extensive retrospective on her blog. Her experience in uncontrollable bowel movements was more powerful than yours and had more resonance for her. The wood shit was a highlight of her life, worthy of reminiscing over.

[jimthepleb]

I went for a piss earlier and when I put it away I dribbled a bit down my leg, it was mildly uncomfortable for 5 minutes. Please donate to my Patreon.

Another example of matriarchy in action. Women are provided with TP to wipe their flaps. Men have to skate the fine line of not shaking hard enough (piss dribbled down the inside leg) or shaking too hard (piss flicked the length of the shirt).

You can make it shake, you can make it dance, but the last drop always lands in your pants.

No matter how you shake your peg, the last wee drop rolls down your leg.

[piginthecity]

The whole "atheist movement" is based on the idea that being an atheist makes you better than everyone else. It makes vile, lazy, disgusting drunks like Watson think she is somehow better than a hard working, polite, Christian woman who volunteers at the PTA.

Of course, some atheists are great people... and some... not so much.

If the atheist movement was really a civil rights movement it would focus on freedom from religious influence in government. Some groups actually do this, but most, like the Humanists, insist they are fully morally superior. Humanism really is a religious organization to some extent. Thus... every time I go to a Humanist meeting we talk about veganism, and animal rights, and feminism, and racism. We almost never talk about the only topic we agree upon... and that is separation of church and state.

The only group I was backing for a while was the Secular Coalition for America. I thought they had the right idea. Their results have been kind of meh. FFRF may be doing the best work so I am thinking about sending some cash their way.

I think you are right, John, to participate in the "Bricks and Mortar" membership groups, because if you actually meet people and know them, then your social investment is more solid and less likely to disrupted by a divisive Watson type character. Also, with a mass of people paying their membership, there is a bit more centre of mass in the case of entryist type groups.

About the discussions, there is of course the idea that there's no point in talking about topics you agree on, and the disagreement is where the interesting discussion happens.

The other point I'd like to make is that it may be possible to contribute to even the most unpromising discussion constructively if you're patient. For example, while you may not have an interest in Feminism you are certainly interested in the set of things which Feminism addresses (or claims to). So, for example, if the 'Wage Gap' is mentioned, then the conversation can be steered in the direction of whether it's a good thing for people to choose their own work/life balance and it might not be the same for everyone, and to question the assumption that people with more money are always better off in other ways too. Or even the meta-question about whether it's sensible to draw conclusions about individual injustice from averages and statistics drawn from a large number of people.

Easier said than done I know.

[Jan Steen]

<snip>
I've always thought that Dawkins "Dear Muslima" was the perfect rebuttal to Watson&co, who reacted in a childish way to what was an excellent point which demolished their special victimhood narrative. If you're interested in women's rights you should be concerned with legally and socially approved discrimination, not with the behavior of a few rude people on the Internet. ....

I'm glad to see that someone else agrees with me.

Back in February, I made a comment on Dawkins's site (under my 'nym Hermann Steinpilz) that offended Ophelia Benson so much that she devoted a whole post to it. Outraged, she cited this part of my comment:

The SJWs keep bringing up Richard’s “Dear Muslima” comment, and keep deliberately misinterpreting it. Because that’s what they do. They lie, and lie, and lie some more. I’m thinking of folk like Adam Lee, who claimed in a piece in The Guardian that Richard was essentially arguing that women in Muslim theocracies have it much worse than women in the West, and that therefore the latter should remain silent about “sexual harassment and physical intimidation”.

I can imagine how infuriating such dishonesty must be to Richard. He should (and probably does) realize that SJWs are much like fundie believers. They are equally dogmatic; they are opposed to free speech (who needs free speech, when your side has all the correct answers?); and they routinely lie for The Cause. They are totally dishonest. It is no use trying to reason with the likes of Adam Lee, PZ Myers or Ophelia Benson.

Ms Benson responded:

Ok how am I misinterpreting it? What is its meaning that I am so dishonestly construing? What exactly is it that I’m lying and lying and lying some more about? How else can that comment be read?

How else? Does she really think that asking someone politely for a coffee is either sexual harassment or physical intimidation? Is she really ignorant of the context in which Dawkins made his acerbic but entirely justified comment?

All he did was mocking the disproportionate attention that was being paid to the 'ordeal' of Rebecca Watson, which she had largely brought upon herself by throwing around accusations of misogyny, for example against female students who were obviously not misogynists. ....

Blast from the past - I too weighed in on Dawkins' site (here):

Kind of sad in a way to see this type of thing – splitting of hairs over interpretations of words and implications – roiling the otherwise placid (?) waters of the “atheist-skeptic-feminist-humanist” (ASFH) community. And maybe NECSS is to be commended, also, for broaching the issue of having pointed and focused discussions about the proximate causes for such. ....

However, apart from the apparently rather questionable categorical assertion that all SJWs "lie, and lie, and lie some more" - which seems little different from CommanderTuvok's similarly categorical accusation of pedophilia against all SJWs, I think your assertion is a highly questionable inference as to the motivations of all, every last one of those, SJWs. Consider the definition for lie:

to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive

You know for a fact, and have the evidence for the accusation, that every last one of those SJWs are "uttering an untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive"? If so then I expect James Randi has your million waiting for you.

As I expect you remember, Michael Nugent was quite adamant that people commenting on his blog shouldn't be using that word without justification. While I think Benson in that "Impatient" post of hers is a little clueless and not very forthcoming about how she actually interprets Dawkins' Muslima post - apart from getting her knickers in a twist over the "angry rudeness of [what she sees as a] hostile, contemptuous thing" - I see nothing that justifies your accusation that she in particular, of that vast conspiracy of the nefarious SJW tribe, is "uttering an untruth unknowingly with intent to deceive".

Seems to me that it doesn't help in the slightest to be throwing around baseless and unevidenced accusations, particularly categorical ones - with the possible exception of Muslims. But it also seems that we might be wise to remember that "honest men and women may disagree" without that disagreement being taken as prima facie evidence of lying. Spinning dancers and all that.

Since you have a fetish for definitions, let this one sink in:

SJW, n. Self-righteous, authoritarian, censorious, hypocritical, abusive, chronically dishonest person who is opposed to freedom of expression, and displays ostentatious concern for the plight of 'oppressed minorities'. Lies habitually in order to make up or exaggerate problems that provide an opportunity for virtue-signalling and/or silencing opponents. Likes to accuse said opponents of being misogynists, white supremacists, colonialists, or MRAs. SJWs excuse their abusive behaviour by calling it 'punching up'. Too lazy and cowardly to carry out physical attacks, their preferred methods are libel and doxxing, with the aim of impairing their target's livelihood. Their motto is: "It's okay when we do it." A fair, truthful SJW is by definition an oxymoron.

[AndrewV69]

Meanwhile back in Syria.

According to a blogger (who I am not providing a link because he is pretty partisan, biased and has a spin on events that are only going to confuse, not to mention completely discombobulated ... which would be the same result as asking Oafie for sex advise)

Once again the CIA-armed militia called Fursan al Haq (Knights of Righteousness) has clashed with the Pentagon-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

The SDF BTW is mostly Kurdish from the YPG. With misc Arabs to provide a fig leaf so that they can tell Erdogen that they are not a Kurdish force. I am not certain that Erdogen believes this for one moment.

Anyway, like I said once more they have clashed and I am waiting for the body/casualty count. Just a sec ... let me see if any news site has covered this. Nope. However there is an article, dated March 30, 2016 from the Syrian Observer titled : US Admits CIA-Backed Rebels Fighting Pentagon-Backed Groups in Syria

Just going to mention that this is only a tiny piece of the ongoing massive clusterfuck (need I mention the sporadic Al Nursa/Al Querda fightin for example?)

If anyone one thinks that this is going to be resolved any time soon, you are getting your "news" from the Main Stream Media.

[jet_lagg]

I claim more victim points than Ania Onion whatever, on the basis that I once believed I had recovered from a nasty bout of gastric flu and therefore thought I'd release what would be a quiet, gentle fart in the bed. It should be noted that my bird was in the bed with me at the time.

So Ania can quit the waaahmbulance act, frankly.

But for you, the event wasn't even worth a blog post at the time. Ania's shit in the woods was worth an extensive retrospective on her blog. Her experience in uncontrollable bowel movements was more powerful than yours and had more resonance for her. The wood shit was a highlight of her life, worthy of reminiscing over.

I can't speak for all the pants-shitters on the pit (there are more of us than I'd have anticipated), but my one outing was definitely worthy of retrospective. Tragedies are opportunities to gain life lessons, yes? Never trust a fart after a night of heavy drinking (be deeply suspicious of farts in general). Spend some time cultivating the sort of friends you can call on to discreetly bring you a new pair of paints while you hide in the bathroom. Though it's tempting, never utilize the cheek lift maneuver when letting one rip. Yes, properly done you can render your flatulence entirely silent, but the risks are too great.


:hankey:

[Malky]

Sherman tank for sale. Estimated value of $280 to $400k USD.

It's in France so we can visit Phil and our tank at the same time. Whose in?

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/feature ... ction.html

Will it fit on the mantelpiece?

[dogen]

Sherman tank for sale. Estimated value of $280 to $400k USD.

It's in France so we can visit Phil and our tank at the same time. Whose in?

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/feature ... ction.html

Will it fit on the mantelpiece?

I believe the Sherman would be better employed as a firestarter.

[Tigzy]

I can't speak for all the pants-shitters on the pit (there are more of us than I'd have anticipated)

Indeed. In fact, I'd wager that 100% of the human population will have at least one embarrasing shit-related incident in their lives. It's just one of those things. Gross and as embarassing as hell when it happens, but not the end of the world. But for special snowflakes like Ania 'Onion', having to do a mucky shit behind a tree stands the apotheosis of all the sufferings she has to endure at the hands of the cis-shitters - ie, the ones who don't have Crohns, you see, and therefore have the privilege of never having to endure the splurty eruptions of a rebellious rectum. I suspect that in Ania's mind, 99.9% of the populace always have pleasant shits, conveniently timed to coincide with the close proximity to a lavender-scented public lavatory which has one of those attendants sitting next to a bowl in which you deposit some coins after you've done your business (what do those people do, exactly?) - and that as a result of this, she is looked down upon by the privileged clean-shitting shit-het scum majority because she occasionally has a nasty, icky poop experience.

Hmmm. I've just realised that if Elyse the 'mofo' is reading this, she's probably schlicking away with fingers going at it like a bunch of lampreys trapped in a vat of waffle mix. Sexy.

[Lsuoma]

I claim more victim points than Ania Onion whatever, on the basis that I once believed I had recovered from a nasty bout of gastric flu and therefore thought I'd release what would be a quiet, gentle fart in the bed. It should be noted that my bird was in the bed with me at the time.

So Ania can quit the waaahmbulance act, frankly.

But for you, the event wasn't even worth a blog post at the time. Ania's shit in the woods was worth an extensive retrospective on her blog. Her experience in uncontrollable bowel movements was more powerful than yours and had more resonance for her. The wood shit was a highlight of her life, worthy of reminiscing over.

I can't speak for all the pants-shitters on the pit (there are more of us than I'd have anticipated), but my one outing was definitely worthy of retrospective. Tragedies are opportunities to gain life lessons, yes? Never trust a fart after a night of heavy drinking (be deeply suspicious of farts in general). Spend some time cultivating the sort of friends you can call on to discreetly bring you a new pair of paints while you hide in the bathroom. Though it's tempting, never utilize the cheek lift maneuver when letting one rip. Yes, properly done you can render your flatulence entirely silent, but the risks are too great.


:hankey:

I remember a Top Tip from Vix many years ago:

Gentlemen: if you are about to fart pull you cheeks apart with your hands to avoid doing a loud, embarrassing fart.

It was followed immediately by:

Gentlemen: if you think you are about to fart and decide to hold your cheeks apart to avoid an embarrassing noise, make sure it actually is a fart first.

Or something like that.

[Shatterface]

The fallout from this is going to be huge:

Apple ordered to pay up to €13bn after EU rules Ireland broke state aid laws

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -state-aid

[Guestus Aurelius]

Some top ISIS guy was just killed.

Fuckin' Islamophobia.

[CommanderTuvok]

That assaulter of women Chris Brown is currently in something of a stand off with police. He has apparently pulled a gun on a woman, and given his past behaviour towards women, the SJWs will be "gunning" for him...

...but wait...

...Chris is invoking Black Lives Matter, which suddenly propels him into a Rebecca Watson "thou shalt not be questioned" status. A tough one for the SJWs.

[CommanderTuvok]

Some top ISIS guy was just killed.

Fuckin' Islamophobia.

:burn:

[Kirbmarc]

What's with all the people talking about shit? Are you try to summon back Mykeru?

[jet_lagg]

Orbiter and Crohn's sufferer Ania shit her pants once. We're all showing solidarity.

[Tigzy]

Orbiter and Crohn's sufferer Ania shit her pants once. We're all showing solidarity.

Well, not that solid, given the circumstances.

[Tigzy]

What's with all the people talking about shit? Are you try to summon back Mykeru?

Just venting, dude. Best to let it out rather than allow it to back up. No good being all anal-retentive about it.

[CommanderTuvok]

What's with all the people talking about shit? Are you try to summon back Mykeru?

We get so much shit spewing from their mouths, why not their arseholes as well? The stuff evacuating from their Greg Laden just might have more credibility than the stuff from their gobs.

[deLurch]

The most organised part of the atheist 'movement' (which predates even the New Atheists) is the Freedom from Religion Foundation. And they were more into promoting secularism (ie separation of church & state in America) than atheism per se.

Online there is no 'atheist community' or 'atheist movement' - we are simply a trending topic (though a much more persistent one than most of say twitter's TT) and a bunch of fora.

Without the charismatic input of Hitchens & others - it seems inevitable that momentum would stop building at some point. It seems that Milo et al have eclipsed us all.

nb TAA and Thunderf00t do not produce much (if any) atheist content anymore.

But maybe it's enough.

How long can you really prattle on about god not existing. It is a short discussion, especially for those in agreement.

I would expect that many such atheists such as myself would be more inclined to explore other parts of life.

[fuzzy]

Apparently Ania Onion's accidental evacuation was caught on a surveillance camera:

[youtube][/youtube]

[Kirbmarc]

What's with all the people talking about shit? Are you try to summon back Mykeru?

Just venting, dude. Best to let it out rather than allow it to back up. No good being all anal-retentive about it.

:clap:

[Kirbmarc]

Orbiter and Crohn's sufferer Ania shit her pants once. We're all showing solidarity.

I'm just surprised no one has posted this smiley yet:

:hankey:

[Brive1987]

Sherman tank for sale. Estimated value of $280 to $400k USD.

It's in France so we can visit Phil and our tank at the same time. Whose in?

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/feature ... ction.html

Get it insured before collection - they have a tendency to fall apart.

[Kirbmarc]

I love this forum. It's the only place where I can read discussions about the details of the civil war in Syria followed by people's lived experience about shitting their pants, then by bitching about the Sherman tank. Never change, Pitters, never change.

[Tigzy]

I love this forum. It's the only place where I can read discussions about the details of the civil war in Syria followed by people's lived experience about shitting their pants, then by bitching about the Sherman tank. Never change, Pitters, never change.

I'd say that under some circumstances, a change is absolutely necessary. Particularly when it comes to clothes. Or, uh, bedsheets.

[jet_lagg]

The most organised part of the atheist 'movement' (which predates even the New Atheists) is the Freedom from Religion Foundation. And they were more into promoting secularism (ie separation of church & state in America) than atheism per se.

Online there is no 'atheist community' or 'atheist movement' - we are simply a trending topic (though a much more persistent one than most of say twitter's TT) and a bunch of fora.

Without the charismatic input of Hitchens & others - it seems inevitable that momentum would stop building at some point. It seems that Milo et al have eclipsed us all.

nb TAA and Thunderf00t do not produce much (if any) atheist content anymore.

But maybe it's enough.

How long can you really prattle on about god not existing. It is a short discussion, especially for those in agreement.

I would expect that many such atheists such as myself would be more inclined to explore other parts of life.

I was, and still am, more interested in going on the offensive against religion through debate. The online atheism community was then just a resource for finding good tips on rhetoric, selling strategies, formal and informal logical fallacies, and so on. I like to think I've had the effect of secularizing if not deconverting most of the theists in my life. My father has gone from hardcore evangelical to basically regarding the bible as very inspirational literature. I call that a win.

[Lsuoma]

I love this forum. It's the only place where I can read discussions about the details of the civil war in Syria followed by people's lived experience about shitting their pants, then by bitching about the Sherman tank. Never change, Pitters, never change.

How about changing our underpants?

[Lsuoma]

Arggghhh!

:hankey: :nin: :hankey: :nin: :hankey: :nin: :hankey:

[free thoughtpolice]

Sargon reads a letter by a listener from Pakistan that describes aspects of islam that outsiders often don't grasp well.
[youtube][/youtube]

One thing that many, in particular the regressive left don't get is that politics are an integral part of islam and not separate. Typically, an argument goes that the Islamic State and all the problems in Syria and Iraq are due to politics and religion is unimportant to the mix.
Of course, western imperialism is the main cause of the troubles and those poor brown people have no responsibility for their actions. Oh and more than 1000 years of muslim rule was swell and everyone was happy, then in less than a century western colonialism destroyed all the harmony and have since stopped them from retrieving their utopia.

[MarcusAu]

How long can you really prattle on about god not existing. It is a short discussion, especially for those in agreement.

I would expect that many such atheists such as myself would be more inclined to explore other parts of life.

Much like most people, I suspect that I have at least a lifetime of prattle in me.

The degree to which I profess any atheistic belief is in direct proportion to the surrounding religious / evangelical environment.

I suspect that being raised catholic has also left it's mark - so that I am interested in
- the history of christianity (and religion in general)
- mythology (if it can be said to be distinct from religion)
- secularism (freedom of and from religion)
- science - physics and biology (including Darwin and the history of the theory of evolution), philosophy and the history of both
- history in general

I don't think that these interests necessarily follow from a lack of religion (so they would not necessarily be shared by others) - but there is probably some correlation.

So there's still something to talk about beyond simply 'no god'


If there was any organised 'atheist movement' - I would be happy if it's goals were:
- separation of church and state
- support for freedom of speech & the removal of any stigma for anyone declaring themselves as atheist or non-religious
- the removal of any special status of religion(s) - including (default) tax free status and the taboo of criticism
- charity work - such as the Clergy Project (helping people leave religion) or Doctors without Borders.
- to be non-political neither left nor right
- education (maybe)


nb things like 'Sunday Assembly' really rub me the wrong way - they seem to be cast from the same old patronising / condescending mould as ordinary old conventional church services.


There seemed to be a moment when everything was starting to work out - but I'm a little less optimistic at the moment.

[Billie from Ockham]

What's with all the people talking about shit? Are you try to summon back Mykeru?

Sometimes, when I'm constipated, I look at myself in the bathroom mirror and repeat his name three times.

Works every time.

In fact, you could say that it makes my biggies small.

:rimshot:

[DaveDodo007]

I come to check up on the pit and a lot of people are talking about shitting themselves. I mean really.

[KiwiInOz]

I almost shat myself once. Gefan was there. True story :twatson:

Obviously a case of Post Trampoline Stress Disorder.

[fuzzy]

I come to check up on the pit and a lot of people are talking about shitting themselves. I mean really.

Oh yeah, like you've never shit yourself? And if not, please respect our safe space.

[screwtape]

I love this forum. It's the only place where I can read discussions about the details of the civil war in Syria followed by people's lived experience about shitting their pants, then by bitching about the Sherman tank. Never change, Pitters, never change.

How about changing our underpants?

Remember in the Falklands when Invincible locked a missile on a Brazilian airliner, but a Harrier went and identified it before firing and frightened the passengers. Sandy Woodward issued the statement that "inconvenience to passengers' underwear regretted unless any of them were Argentinian"

[Kirbmarc]

One thing that many, in particular the regressive left don't get is that politics are an integral part of islam and not separate. Typically, an argument goes that the Islamic State and all the problems in Syria and Iraq are due to politics and religion is unimportant to the mix.
Of course, western imperialism is the main cause of the troubles and those poor brown people have no responsibility for their actions. Oh and more than 1000 years of muslim rule was swell and everyone was happy, then in less than a century western colonialism destroyed all the harmony and have since stopped them from retrieving their utopia.

Of course politics is an integral part of Islam. It's an integral part of Christianity, too: Catholics, for example, are supposed to obey to the Pope over any secular authority, at least in theory, the Anglican church is a state church and there many different protestant plans to reshape society into a theocracy. Organized religion is authoritarian to its core: it's about "bringing god's will into the world", i.e. forcing people to obey its rules or else.

The biggest difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity has been practically secularized after a long process which started with the American and French revolutions, while Islam hasn't been secularized in the slightest and actually is in a process of revitalization.

We in the West (especially in Europe) have gotten used to a declawed, castrated version of Christianity which is all about feel-good messages and kumbayah, but that's a modern heresy (condemned by the popes, for example, even in the 1920s). Most people who claim to be christians are either cafeteria christians (a bit of this, a bit of that, let's ignore this rule and follow this other one) or cultural christians ("I love crucifixes and Christmas, and marrying in a church is stylish. Plus Jesus was all about turning the other cheek, so peace and love, right?").

Most Muslims are still doing what their imams tell them to do, and in many cases their imams still tell them to beat their wives with a stick, kill apostates and blasphemers and work to turn the society they live in into a Muslim theocracy (where non-Muslims have to pay for "protection") just like in the old days of the pedophile Mohammed.

Anyone who thinks that "religion is unimportant" to the Syria and Iraq problems is a moron. Religion is the key factor which creates sides and informs choices of the groups which fight in Syria and Iraq. The Salafi groups, which include ISIS and others, kill other, less openly fanatical Sunnis, Shias, Yazidis and Kurds because of their religious beliefs. The Shias of Iraq, like Muqtada Al-Sadr, side with Iran because of their religious beliefs. Of course the Saudis and Iran also manipulate those beliefs to support either their hold on OPEC or their new plans against the petro-dollars, just like in the old times the Popes excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperors.

There are different kind of politics for different kinds of Islam, though. Shia Iran has different politics from the Salafi. Not that I'm saying that one is morally better than the other, mind. Just that they're different, and that according to what happens now Iran is the lesser evil (just like the Soviet Union was the lesser evil compared to Nazi Germany).

"Western imperialism" is a joke these days. There's much more influence of Saudi Arabia on US Middle Eastern policies than vice versa. The West is actually becoming almost like a Salafi colony in some cases (like in some parts of the UK or Sweden).

The years of Muslim rule were also years of first Arab then Ottoman Turkish imperialism. People from what today is called Jordan or Palestine were treated like dirt under the Ottoman Empire, no matter what Erdogan and his cronies write in their pan-Islam pro-Turkey propaganda. Arab and Turks also contributed to the slave of trade of Africans as much as the "Evil Europeans".

Palestinians or Jordanians who dream of a reborn Ottoman Empire are idiots who have swallowed the utopian Salafi propaganda about the "perfect society" under Muslim rule.

[DrokkIt]

Sargon reads a letter by a listener from Pakistan that describes aspects of islam that outsiders often don't grasp well.
[youtube][/youtube]

One thing that many, in particular the regressive left don't get is that politics are an integral part of islam and not separate. Typically, an argument goes that the Islamic State and all the problems in Syria and Iraq are due to politics and religion is unimportant to the mix.
Of course, western imperialism is the main cause of the troubles and those poor brown people have no responsibility for their actions. Oh and more than 1000 years of muslim rule was swell and everyone was happy, then in less than a century western colonialism destroyed all the harmony and have since stopped them from retrieving their utopia.

Best Sarg thing in a while, the points the writer makes are offer good insight.

[Keating]

I come to check up on the pit and a lot of people are talking about shitting themselves. I mean really.

I can't stand all the shitposting on the slymepit.

[MarcusAu]

How about changing our underpants?

I have a 3 - 4 pair limit - before having to take at least one set off.


Also don't leave things too long - or else - Dingleberries!

[fuzzy]

I can't stand all the shitposting on the slymepit.

Instead of standing, you might want to try sitting or squatting.

[VickyCaramel]

How long can you really prattle on about god not existing. It is a short discussion, especially for those in agreement.

I would expect that many such atheists such as myself would be more inclined to explore other parts of life.

Much like most people, I suspect that I have at least a lifetime of prattle in me.

The degree to which I profess any atheistic belief is in direct proportion to the surrounding religious / evangelical environment.

I suspect that being raised catholic has also left it's mark - so that I am interested in
- the history of christianity (and religion in general)
- mythology (if it can be said to be distinct from religion)
- secularism (freedom of and from religion)
- science - physics and biology (including Darwin and the history of the theory of evolution), philosophy and the history of both
- history in general

I don't think that these interests necessarily follow from a lack of religion (so they would not necessarily be shared by others) - but there is probably some correlation.

So there's still something to talk about beyond simply 'no god'


If there was any organised 'atheist movement' - I would be happy if it's goals were:
- separation of church and state
- support for freedom of speech & the removal of any stigma for anyone declaring themselves as atheist or non-religious
- the removal of any special status of religion(s) - including (default) tax free status and the taboo of criticism
- charity work - such as the Clergy Project (helping people leave religion) or Doctors without Borders.
- to be non-political neither left nor right
- education (maybe)


nb things like 'Sunday Assembly' really rub me the wrong way - they seem to be cast from the same old patronising / condescending mould as ordinary old conventional church services.


There seemed to be a moment when everything was starting to work out - but I'm a little less optimistic at the moment.

I have been arguing with a couple of creationists for the last 3 days. So far neither have grasped the difference between a hypothesis, a theory and a law, and one of them just hit me with, "Evolution doesn't explain the big bang" for about the 6th time.

Sometimes, I just need to be among my own kind, I need a safe space where I know I am not going to be triggered by mention of Haeckel's embryos.

[comhcinc]

I have been arguing with a couple of creationists for the last 3 days. So far neither have grasped the difference between a hypothesis, a theory and a law, and one of them just hit me with, "Evolution doesn't explain the big bang" for about the 6th time.

Sometimes, I just need to be among my own kind, I need a safe space where I know I am not going to be triggered by mention of Haeckel's embryos.

Well....evolution doesn't explain the big bang.

Check mate.

http://www.gamingrebellion.com/wp-conte ... sChess.jpg

[comhcinc]

As for shitting myself. Yeah there is a reason I always keep a change of clothes in the car.

[MarcusAu]

I have been arguing with a couple of creationists for the last 3 days. So far neither have grasped the difference between a hypothesis, a theory and a law, and one of them just hit me with, "Evolution doesn't explain the big bang" for about the 6th time.

Sometimes, I just need to be among my own kind, I need a safe space where I know I am not going to be triggered by mention of Haeckel's embryos.

Bloody Huguenots - always so argumentative!

[fuzzy]

Well you know there have always been bangs of all sizes, and the small and medium ones didn't work out as they re-contracted, and the huge and gargantuan ones didn't last either because everything became too sparse. Only appropriately large bangs were able to create universes capable of moving on to the next step.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_1880.jpg

[CommanderTuvok]

One thing that many, in particular the regressive left don't get is that politics are an integral part of islam and not separate. Typically, an argument goes that the Islamic State and all the problems in Syria and Iraq are due to politics and religion is unimportant to the mix.

Yup. Same with "culture". The regressive left will often try to reframe bad Islamic practices as "cultural" reasons, ignoring the fact that in highly religious societies, the culture is obviously closely linked and meshed with religion.

[MarcusAu]

If ever caught short at a friends house - don't try to rectify things by going to the bathroom, attempting to clean things up with bleach, then put your underwear back on and walk home...

...or so I've been told.


Words to live by...

[Tribble]

Apparently Ania Onion's accidental evacuation was caught on a surveillance camera:

[youtube][/youtube]

I like the little kid at the end 'Ok, I think we're done here now..." lol.

[comhcinc]

If ever caught short at a friends house - don't try to rectify things by going to the bathroom, attempting to clean things up with bleach, then put your underwear back on and walk home...

...or so I've been told.


Words to live by...

The proper response is to find their nice towels, clean yourself up, replace the towels as you found them, never admit you did anything.


I do not have nice towels.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I come to check up on the pit and a lot of people are talking about shitting themselves. I mean really.

Oh yeah, like you've never shit yourself? And if not, please respect our safe space.

It makes sense if you think of safe spaces as toilets.

[free thoughtpolice]

Kirbmarc: The sort of debate I was referring to.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/stderr/2016 ... me-apart/]

[pro-boxing-fan]

Convicted rapist Brock Turner is to be released after serving only three months. Expect weeping and gnashing of teeth.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brock-turne ... ths-early/

He wasn't convicted of rape, but of sexual assault.
Lesser charges, which he is appealing.

<snip>

That's not why he received lesser charges. I've just double checked and he was given less than the minimum sentence for that conviction. From the wiki:

the California penal code allows a judge to depart from the statutory minimum (two years)

I'm sure you're correct about nobody in the press actually reading the court documents though.

A lawyer at mimesislaw.com wrote a passive agressive article about the case and the reactions to the Judge sentence in the context of law.
http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/judge ... bass/10993

Though, Ken White (Popehat) has a different take http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/brock ... pact/10288

[Guestus Aurelius]

As for shitting myself. Yeah there is a reason I always keep a change of clothes in the car.

Is it because you sometimes shit yourself?

[comhcinc]

As for shitting myself. Yeah there is a reason I always keep a change of clothes in the car.

Is it because you sometimes shit yourself?

Myself, other people, book shelves, small animals, public monument, the list goes on and on. It's not my fault though. You can only find right handed toilet paper in public restrooms.

[pro-boxing-fan]

That assaulter of women Chris Brown is currently in something of a stand off with police. He has apparently pulled a gun on a woman, and given his past behaviour towards women, the SJWs will be "gunning" for him...

...but wait...

...Chris is invoking Black Lives Matter, which suddenly propels him into a Rebecca Watson "thou shalt not be questioned" status. A tough one for the SJWs.

:naughty: :popcorn: