If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

I think others will also reach your conclusion, that Wade's hypothesis means certain people are doomed (hence my comment about lacking Wade's faith in humanity), but I don't think it's a necessary conclusion, and I'm almost certain it's a conclusion Wade would disagree with. He did make it clear that he had stepped-up outside the boundaries of solid science by the time he reached the later chapters, but the implications were still troubling. It doesn't have to be though. Say it turned out Africans really were predisposed towards aggression and tribalism. We wouldn't have to give up at attempts at foreign aid. We'd just need to draft policies that took those factors into account. It would actually help us, because we'd be able to predict in advance what won't work

CuntajusRationality wrote:Looks like someone else had the same idea... Myers commenters make the case for why it's ok when PZ does it:
https://archive.is/5EPN7

Seems pretty clear (to me) that James Eyres was shadow-banned by P Z Myers after his first post. And his crime: providing highly relevant information to the discussion with little or no comment of his own.

James Caruthers wrote:It might not be sexism. But it might.

It might also be the simple fact that men are encouraged a lot more than women to earn money and to gain power...

Men are expected and pressured by society to be able to support themselves and their family, and those who aren't able to are scorned - by society, by women, and by themselves. On top of that, you have that things like authority and the social status that comes from being something like a doctor, engineer, CEO, etc is also strong purely sexual attributes for men - I know I'm repeating myself - but those things really are the male equivalent of nice looks for women.

Men's sense of self worth is very much linked to salary and factors that heavily influence how much they earn. For men, losing their job lead to a big increase of the risk of suicide or other forms of early death (IIRC one Swedish study that looked at the effects of the mass layoffs in the 90s saw a 18% risk increase for early death the first 4 years after losing ones job for men, for women the increase in risk were around 6%.).

In short, men have some seriously strong driving forces pushing them to try to earn as much money as possible - it's something that's tied strongly to both their sense of self-worth and to their success in finding a mate - IMO it's far more likely that this explains most the gap that remains when you've taken all the "easy to measure and account for"-factors into consideration.

Wow. Just had to post this here. There is some kind of thread between veganism, feminism, and rape.... and it is explained in this marvelous blog.

http://veganfeminist.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1

James Caruthers wrote: Maybe God exists and he's a slymepitter. :cdc:

I love the 'pit and will defend it against all comers except those that claim there is racism here because Steersman. But God is a GamerGater.

PZ said:

(possibly; he’s in retirement, and mostly what he seems to have done is confer with other labs and get his name on a few papers.)

Well that's more than some manage eh PZ?

ps. It's hilarious every time someone posts and archive link to FTB, since it show their ads that is normaly hidden by adblock.

So much feminism:
http://i.imgur.com/uEBqGVU.jpg

Billie from Ockham wrote:

CuntajusRationality wrote:Looks like someone else had the same idea... Myers commenters make the case for why it's ok when PZ does it:
https://archive.is/5EPN7

Seems pretty clear (to me) that James Eyres was shadow-banned by P Z Myers after his first post. And his crime: providing highly relevant information to the discussion with little or no comment of his own.

Note PZ's attempt to pretend he does research:

Peezus wrote:For instance, I’ve been looking at cell migrations in the embryo — hey, that’s like metastasis! I must be working on curing cancer, too!

John D wrote:Wow. Just had to post this here. There is some kind of thread between veganism, feminism, and rape.... and it is explained in this marvelous blog.

http://veganfeminist.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1

Maybe that's why so many feminists appear to identify as cow-kin. :geek:

Billie from Ockham wrote:

CuntajusRationality wrote:Looks like someone else had the same idea... Myers commenters make the case for why it's ok when PZ does it:
https://archive.is/5EPN7

Seems pretty clear (to me) that James Eyres was shadow-banned by P Z Myers after his first post. And his crime: providing highly relevant information to the discussion with little or no comment of his own.

A rather sad state of affairs in that rather benighted neck of the woods. A paradigmatic case, this one from Giliell (surprise, surprise, surprise):

Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-
2 July 2015 at 7:22 am

James Eyres: It’s pretty fair to say that his comments were taken out of context.

Nope.
“It’S a joke” is no excuse, the meaning and effect don’t change. It’S a joke at the expense of female scientists, making them the butt of the joke, reinforcing negative stereotypes and creating a hostile climate.

No, Giliell: a smallish (?) segment of the class "female scientists" is being made "the butt of a joke". Which you are apparently conflating with the whole class. And giving some justification for the argument that you think, "my sex, right or wrong" - which is essentially the epitome of sexism.

Although you're apparently in good company with those who think pretty much the same thing about race, and various, supposedly, racist epithets. A rather sad consequence of being unable to differentiate between the individual and the group - a "crime" that might reasonably be laid at the more "po-mo-ish" branches of sociology as Pinker has more or less argued in his The Blank Slate.

But what a narrow-minded and dogmatic twat she is. And the most that might be said in her favour is that she's consistent - as in her argument, in response to my "[violence], it's more of a guy thing", that I had a worse opinion of males than the worst misandrist on record.

free thoughtpolice wrote:

John D wrote:Wow. Just had to post this here. There is some kind of thread between veganism, feminism, and rape.... and it is explained in this marvelous blog.

http://veganfeminist.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1

Maybe that's why so many feminists appear to identify as cow-kin. :geek:

The author of this blog identifies as genderless. So zee is a biologically female genderless vegan feminist. Nice pile of stuff there.

comhcinc wrote:

Slipterid wrote:

comhcinc wrote: Now excuse me I have to go see if I can convince a kitten to get out from inside my car's engine area.

Is the kitten OK? Please tell me the kitten is ok.

The kitten is fine. I was able to get her to come out and send her on her way. She was lucky it was a lightning storm last night and I had left some shelf stable food in the car. Otherwise I tend to jump in and crank up the radio and take off. I have made a note that I need to take a moment to check from now own.

I am so glad -- thanks for letting me know. And yes, always check for kittens :)

kitten pit-kill again!

Slipterid wrote:
I am so glad -- thanks for letting me know. And yes, always check for kittens :)

I'm fine btw :(

Right after a bunch of his nitwit baboons are finished talking about how Tim Hunt is so lacking in self awareness PZ drops this gem:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 3:22 pm

Yeah, the terrible abusive sex part was…shuffling cards.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3elpYsZwa

comhcinc wrote:

Slipterid wrote:
I am so glad -- thanks for letting me know. And yes, always check for kittens :)

I'm fine btw :(

:lol: good! I have been following your posts and high-fiving your positive way of moving forward. Some of us who quietly watch are cheering you on too.

John D wrote:Wow. Just had to post this here. There is some kind of thread between veganism, feminism, and rape.... and it is explained in this marvelous blog.

http://veganfeminist.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1

Holy shit. This one's madder than the Mad Hatter's embarassing aunt. Take a look at this load of old toot: http://veganfeminist.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... n.html?m=1

We need to read and write about bees and wasps to create a space that legitimizes them. Like many other animals (especially insects), bees and wasps are objectified by our culture in a way that allows us to treat them with absolute disrespect.

If we care about issues of oppression or any non-human animal at all, we need to radically rethink bees and wasps because oppressions are interconnected, uphold one another, and it is our moral obligation to protect victims. I certainly don't know if this is the best way to radically rethink bees and wasps, but it is hopefully one of many attempts.

One must wonder if such concern towards low-level organisms even extends to bacteria - 'penicillin is punishment!' I'm sure a PoMo argument can be made for the case, which would likely prove very awkward for this daffy mare, given that she's quite the fan of various PoMo sophistries and tries her best to live accordingly. However, what I like most about this blogpost is the blase way she presumes to lecture the rest of us on the proper, ethical way to deal with bees & wasps despite being utterly pig ignorant on the subject:

If you keep your wasp or bee safe inside until Spring, they won't make it. You've likely found a drone that will have a naturally short lifespan. I have no idea what queens look like so I have no way to tell you if you have a queen, but if you do have one they will live until Spring.

I found a wasp or bee stuck behind my curtains in my den a few weeks ago. It was the night of the first snowfall. After much research online I still have no idea if this was a wasp or bee and it doesn't really matter (I'll explain why later). I will refer to my insect friend as a wee.

The wee could not even stand up. I put the wee in a tupperware container and every thirty seconds would have to prod the wee with a piece of paper to help them stand up again because the wee had fallen onto their back and was buzzing loudly. After about five minutes I only needed to upright the wee every minute. Then, about ten minutes after I was positive my wee would not live the night, the wee decided to fly around the room and land in my bonsai.

Absolutely fucking mental. Seriously, this one makes a good case for bringing back the practice of horsewhipping retards.

John D wrote:

free thoughtpolice wrote:

John D wrote:Wow. Just had to post this here. There is some kind of thread between veganism, feminism, and rape.... and it is explained in this marvelous blog.

http://veganfeminist.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1

Maybe that's why so many feminists appear to identify as cow-kin. :geek:

The author of this blog identifies as genderless. So zee is a biologically female genderless vegan feminist. Nice pile of stuff there.

Strange in many years of dairy farming I have never heard reference to a 'Rape rack.'
Now we may 'arm' a cow to check her for many reasons including AI, but it is relatively rare that we will actually go in vaginally. The cervix is most easily accessed and manipulated anally. For AI a 1mm tube is then inserted vaginally (having been warmed to body temperature to thaw out the semen and for the cow's comfort) pushed through the cervix and then a few (thousand) spermatazoa are introduced to the womb.
Next time you are in a cow field look at the size of the turds, then look at the size of your bunched fist.
Whilst cows are placid and gentle creatures, they will not tolerate discomfort without making a hell of a fuss, and they weigh 3/4 tonne on average.
Yet I can AI cows in place as I wander around their stalls with little risk to myself or the animals.
There are many things to complain about in intensive farming. But raping cows is not one of them. If modern bulls were allowed onto the average dairy cow they would literally (and I mean literally) break their backs.
If worldwide we allowed the international herd to run free as vegans would have us do, there would be no beef or milk within 8 bovine generations and 2 human ones.
With no dairy herds and few sheep in the south, the grazed land is stuffed and England is about to change irrevocably.
Not that I have a dog in this race as all of my previous 4 employers have ceased dairy farming.
But I'm a Cis-het-white breeding dude. So fuck me!

Incidentally the welfare system in the UK is about to be screwed up into the 22nd Century.
Not that I'm bitter.

Slipterid wrote:

comhcinc wrote:

Slipterid wrote:
I am so glad -- thanks for letting me know. And yes, always check for kittens :)

I'm fine btw :(

:lol: good! I have been following your posts and high-fiving your positive way of moving forward. Some of us who quietly watch are cheering you on too.

So an update for anyone who wants to know.

This is basically the end of my second week. The job search is going well I think but I have yet to have any offers of employment. I am hopeful that will change soon.

On the money front I am not in a great place. If I was a start up I would be opening my second round of funding. Going to talk to my mother and see if I can get a loan from some family members. Unfortunately there are no McDuck's in my family.

I didn't get to see the kids last weekend because my wife was working. I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me. That pissed me off a lot. I am getting to see them tomorrow. We are getting a hotel room halfway between where they are staying an Atlanta. So that is cool but I still wish I was spending the 4th with them.

I am doing what I can to stay positive and the pit is a big part of that.

Once again I want to thank everyone for their support.

Except Steersman. Fuck that guy. :D

jet_lagg wrote:I think others will also reach your conclusion, that Wade's hypothesis means certain people are doomed (hence my comment about lacking Wade's faith in humanity), but I don't think it's a necessary conclusion, and I'm almost certain it's a conclusion Wade would disagree with. He did make it clear that he had stepped-up outside the boundaries of solid science by the time he reached the later chapters, but the implications were still troubling. It doesn't have to be though. Say it turned out Africans really were predisposed towards aggression and tribalism. We wouldn't have to give up at attempts at foreign aid. We'd just need to draft policies that took those factors into account. It would actually help us, because we'd be able to predict in advance what won't work

Really don't think it helps matters at all to phrase things that way; far better and likely to be more accurate to say, "aggression and tribalism: it's more of an African thing". Not that all Africans are so predisposed, but that there might be more Africans like that than there are those of other races. Far more plausible, and accurate, to argue that, assuming there might be a set of genes (alleles in fact) that might predispose people to those "behaviour modalities", there is simply a greater frequency of that set in some groups than in others.

And that phenomenon seems to play out in any number of analogous cases, for instance in the fact that Jews have garnered some 22% of the World's Nobel prizes while comprising something like 0.2% of the world's population: "braininess, it's more of a Jewish thing". Again, not that all Jews are more brainy than all those of all other races, but that there is, presumbly, a higher frequency of the genes (alleles in fact) that predispose for that attribute within that race than in others. And while there is, no doubt, more than a few cultural and environmental factors that contribute to that disparity - as in the case of "aggression and tribalism", it seems unwarranted to insist that differences in the frequency distribution of genetic factors don't also play a significant role.

But, more broadly, both those cases are, I think, best illustrated by the disparities between distributions of the heights for the populations of men and women. In the following graph, even though there is a relatively minor difference in the average heights - on the order of 5 or 6 inches - of the two groups, the nature of such distributions is such that there can be wide disparities at their tails: the graph shows that there is about 7 times as many men as women who are taller than 185 cm (about 73 inches). "Tallness, it's more of a guy thing", even though some 30% of the women are taller than 30% of the men (where the two graphs cross @ 170 cm).
http://i62.tinypic.com/igvrxv.jpg
And, maybe arguably, it is those disparities which are frequently the basis for various stereotypes and their problematic uses. Seems to pay to be careful or circumspect about the meanings and implications of various words, particularly when it comes to statistics.

free thoughtpolice wrote:Right after a bunch of his nitwit baboons are finished talking about how Tim Hunt is so lacking in self awareness PZ drops this gem:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 3:22 pm

Yeah, the terrible abusive sex part was…shuffling cards.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3elpYsZwa

Ape+lust wrote:[.img]http://imgur.com/Zz6mQqV.jpg[/img]

:lol: From TheRalphRetort:
http://theralphretort.com/wp-content/up ... cover1.png
Though one might reasonably wonder where the line is between reasonable on-line criticism and "witch-hunting". And whether more of the commentary is more on one side than the other with Hunt than it is with Moosa. I figure "we" should at least be equitable in our judgements in such cases.

We need to read and write about bees and wasps to create a space that legitimizes them. Like many other animals (especially insects), bees and wasps are objectified by our culture in a way that allows us to treat them with absolute disrespect.

If we care about issues of oppression or any non-human animal at all, we need to radically rethink bees and wasps because oppressions are interconnected, uphold one another, and it is our moral obligation to protect victims. I certainly don't know if this is the best way to radically rethink bees and wasps, but it is hopefully one of many attempts.

First person who tells me anaphylaxis is a social construct gets a rusty epi-pen shoved sideways up their ass!

Shatterface as Guest wrote:Feminist Julie Burchill in The Guardian back in 1999:

That young men succeed in suicide more often than girls isn't really the point. Indeed, the more callous among us would say that it was quite nice for young men finally to find something that they're better at than girls.

The Guardian, yesterday:

Burchill urged others to “look after the people you love” after she revealed in a post on her publicly accessible Facebook page that her son had taken his own life. She asked to be left alone to grieve his death.

Shatterface

My grandfather killed himself in his early eighties. His eldest brother jumped in front of a train, his younger drank himself into an early grave. His eldest son hung himself and his youngest gassed himself in his car. I and my uncle are the only surviving male members on both sides of my family line (the others all died of heart conditions by 60).

I think it's fair to say I've been struck over and over again by suicide in both my private and professional life and while I have utmost sympathy for those who have to deal with the aftermath all I can say in Julie Burchill's case is, who cares? She is a loathesome squalid human being who will no doubt use this family tragedy for her own ends and is probably waiting for others to mock her allowing her to run to the Tardian with her stories of how horrible it is to be a woman online, for money.

Shatterface as Guest wrote:Feminist Julie Burchill in The Guardian back in 1999:

That young men succeed in suicide more often than girls isn't really the point. Indeed, the more callous among us would say that it was quite nice for young men finally to find something that they're better at than girls.

The Guardian, yesterday:

Burchill urged others to “look after the people you love” after she revealed in a post on her publicly accessible Facebook page that her son had taken his own life. She asked to be left alone to grieve his death.

Shatterface

My grandfather killed himself in his early eighties. His eldest brother jumped in front of a train, his younger drank himself into an early grave. His eldest son hung himself and his youngest gassed himself in his car. I and my uncle are the only surviving male members on both sides of my family line (the others all died of heart conditions by 60).

I think it's fair to say I've been struck over and over again by suicide in both my private and professional life and while I have utmost sympathy for those who have to deal with the aftermath all I can say in Julie Burchill's case is, who cares? She is a loathsome squalid human being who will no doubt use this family tragedy for her own ends and is probably waiting for others to mock her allowing her to run to the Tardian with her stories of how horrible it is to be a woman online, for money.

John D wrote:The author of this blog identifies as genderless.

I'm not 100% up-to-speed on the jargon, but is identifying as "genderless" the same as admitting that no-one finds you attractive?

jimthepleb wrote:

James Caruthers wrote: Maybe God exists and he's a slymepitter. :cdc:

I love the 'pit and will defend it against all comers except those that claim there is racism here because Steersman. But God is a GamerGater.

Or maybe you don't really understand the meaning, implications, and definition for the word racism:

rac·ism (rā′sĭz′əm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

free thoughtpolice wrote:Another shit post about Tim Hunt and PZ leaves this gem in his own comments:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 7:33 am

Jesus fucking christ. Where do you people come from?

We know he was trying to be funny. That doesn’t excuse the fact that he was trying to be funny with sexist stereotypes in front of an audience of women, and we also know by his own goddamned words that he meant what he said.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3ektVRqyf

Kind of brought to mind that video where PZ does a naughty card trick,and there were women in the audience. :o

^^THIS.^^

Slipterid wrote:I am so glad -- thanks for letting me know. And yes, always check for kittens :)

Agreed. It doesn't count (to me) as a punishment for quoting certain people if the kitten is already dead.

comhcinc wrote:
So an update for anyone who wants to know.

This is basically the end of my second week. The job search is going well I think but I have yet to have any offers of employment. I am hopeful that will change soon.

On the money front I am not in a great place. If I was a start up I would be opening my second round of funding. Going to talk to my mother and see if I can get a loan from some family members. Unfortunately there are no McDuck's in my family.

I didn't get to see the kids last weekend because my wife was working. I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me. That pissed me off a lot. I am getting to see them tomorrow. We are getting a hotel room halfway between where they are staying an Atlanta. So that is cool but I still wish I was spending the 4th with them.

I am doing what I can to stay positive and the pit is a big part of that.

Once again I want to thank everyone for their support.

:clap: :clap: :clap: sounds like you have really picked yourself up, keep on going ok? Enjoy tomorrow and try to think of the 4th as just another day -- with fireworks. As for the financial thing I hope your family can help but you do know some of us can still fling a few coins into the hat if it gets really tight, yes?

Maybe the next thing for you to do is look for a sugar-mommy, not sure how you find those but showing a bit of leg or tit with a certain amount of je-ne-sais-quoi can sometimes attract a sugar-daddy.

comhcinc wrote:Except Steersman. Fuck that guy. :D

Awww poor Steers. What would we do for a mascot without him?

To me, the best part this:

Then, about ten minutes after I was positive my wee would not live the night, the wee decided to fly around the room and land in my bonsai.

And what is a "bonsai"? It's a plant that spends its entire life being completely controlled by a human, being forced to grow and do things that it would never do on its own. There is no better symbol of human abuse of plants than the bonsai.

SM12 wrote:

According to a Rhod Gilbert comedy show, which I saw last night, camel spiders don't exist and are made up by the military to wind up civilians visiting Iraq/Afghanistan.

Probably Steersed already, but they exist, in fact they're their own Order, with something over 1000 different species. They grow up to six inches. The urban legend part is the the danger they present (negligible) and the size. They don't grow to the 15 inches depicted in some shoops depicting them on military camo.

From Steersapaedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_spider

comhcinc wrote:
So an update for anyone who wants to know.

This is basically the end of my second week. The job search is going well I think but I have yet to have any offers of employment. I am hopeful that will change soon.

On the money front I am not in a great place. If I was a start up I would be opening my second round of funding. Going to talk to my mother and see if I can get a loan from some family members. Unfortunately there are no McDuck's in my family.

I didn't get to see the kids last weekend because my wife was working. I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me. That pissed me off a lot. I am getting to see them tomorrow. We are getting a hotel room halfway between where they are staying an Atlanta. So that is cool but I still wish I was spending the 4th with them.

I am doing what I can to stay positive and the pit is a big part of that.

Once again I want to thank everyone for their support.

This is fourth-hand information, so take or leave.

IMO you should be writing all this shit down: all this "I'm working so you cant see the kids" (really? Isn't that the perfect time to have them? Nobody, not no grandparent, can stop you seeing them if they are not with your wife, assuming she has not yet had a legal position taken against you being alone with them).

Or "I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me." Get real, mate. I hope it all ends up in a wonderland of makeup anal and drinking tequila from her belly button. But this is an absolutely crucial time, when you absolutely need to be making accurate notes of every single one of these times when plans were changed by her, leading to you being denied access to your children. And her using other family members, instead of you, to cover for absences. State explicitly, maybe in writing (how romantic, but whatever) that if she needs child care, YOU are the go-to person.

Good luck commie.

Give them an extra shot for me. Last time I was stung by a hornet (on my hand) my arm was swollen to at least twice its' diameter to the point of blood vessels hemorrhaging. I like to keep an electric bug zapper (looks like a tennis racket) on hand and kill any of those fuckers that get near me. :twisted:

Couch wrote:

SM12 wrote:

According to a Rhod Gilbert comedy show, which I saw last night, camel spiders don't exist and are made up by the military to wind up civilians visiting Iraq/Afghanistan.

Probably Steersed already, but they exist, in fact they're their own Order, with something over 1000 different species. They grow up to six inches. The urban legend part is the the danger they present (negligible) and the size. They don't grow to the 15 inches depicted in some shoops depicting them on military camo.

eg:

http://i.imgur.com/uq00AHv.jpg

Ape+lust wrote:

free thoughtpolice wrote:Right after a bunch of his nitwit baboons are finished talking about how Tim Hunt is so lacking in self awareness PZ drops this gem:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 3:22 pm

Yeah, the terrible abusive sex part was…shuffling cards.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3elpYsZwa

Weird, I thought your last post was a bit .... off. Just missed your usual mark.
And then you do this.
Glad to see you are better.

If I've never told you, I love you Ape and you make most of my days end better than they start.
If you ever go 'pro' and need a copy writer, editor, gimp, I'm your sloot.

James Caruthers wrote:

John D wrote: There are several things going on.

1) A 7 cent difference is so small that if feminists admitted this truth they would have no one left to listen to them. They would become irrelevant.

It's not though. It's a lot of money when you look at a lifetime of working. That was kind of my point. The cause of the gap is unknown, but my understanding of the gap is they controlled for most or all known factors. It might not be sexism. But it might. I mean, does anyone here think people who do hiring, promoting or awarding raises are never sexist? Some of the richest people in the USA are socially conservative as fuck.

A 7 cent difference per dollar of income earned is not small at all. This is part of the problem. Feminists talk so much shit that then people feel compelled to never grant them any point even when they might be right. Let's not trivialize what's actually a significant wage difference just because of some hyperbolic SJW assholes.

I'm not convinced that this 7% number is completely explained by other factors not taken into account.

Any number of factors other than sexism, than "Teh Patriarchy!!11!", could be at play - including some some trivial biological factors: sex, and the asymmetry therein, is not sexism - despite the best efforts of various po-mo sociologists and SJWs to insist otherwise.

James Caruthers wrote:I hate to link Wiki like a Steers, but here you go.

:o :shock: Oh noes!! Apostasy! ;)

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:

free thoughtpolice wrote:Another shit post about Tim Hunt and PZ leaves this gem in his own comments:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 7:33 am

Jesus fucking christ. Where do you people come from?

We know he was trying to be funny. That doesn’t excuse the fact that he was trying to be funny with sexist stereotypes in front of an audience of women, and we also know by his own goddamned words that he meant what he said.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3ektVRqyf

Kind of brought to mind that video where PZ does a naughty card trick,and there were women in the audience. :o

^^THIS.^^

http://i.imgur.com/oYM8RgC.png


http://i.imgur.com/PwGv5WF.png

It's okay when...etc...

Slipterid wrote:
:clap: :clap: :clap: sounds like you have really picked yourself up, keep on going ok? Enjoy tomorrow and try to think of the 4th as just another day -- with fireworks. As for the financial thing I hope your family can help but you do know some of us can still fling a few coins into the hat if it gets really tight, yes?

I am not going to ebeg but I also won't turn down any help anyone wants to give me. I am really positive that I am close to having a job but these things take time.

Slipterid wrote:Maybe the next thing for you to do is look for a sugar-mommy, not sure how you find those but showing a bit of leg or tit with a certain amount of je-ne-sais-quoi can sometimes attract a sugar-daddy.

Lol I don't have a lot of pride. If you know of a sugar whatever then please send them my way.

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:

comhcinc wrote:
So an update for anyone who wants to know.

This is basically the end of my second week. The job search is going well I think but I have yet to have any offers of employment. I am hopeful that will change soon.

On the money front I am not in a great place. If I was a start up I would be opening my second round of funding. Going to talk to my mother and see if I can get a loan from some family members. Unfortunately there are no McDuck's in my family.

I didn't get to see the kids last weekend because my wife was working. I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me. That pissed me off a lot. I am getting to see them tomorrow. We are getting a hotel room halfway between where they are staying an Atlanta. So that is cool but I still wish I was spending the 4th with them.

I am doing what I can to stay positive and the pit is a big part of that.

Once again I want to thank everyone for their support.

This is fourth-hand information, so take or leave.

IMO you should be writing all this shit down: all this "I'm working so you cant see the kids" (really? Isn't that the perfect time to have them? Nobody, not no grandparent, can stop you seeing them if they are not with your wife, assuming she has not yet had a legal position taken against you being alone with them).

Or "I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me." Get real, mate. I hope it all ends up in a wonderland of makeup anal and drinking tequila from her belly button. But this is an absolutely crucial time, when you absolutely need to be making accurate notes of every single one of these times when plans were changed by her, leading to you being denied access to your children. And her using other family members, instead of you, to cover for absences. State explicitly, maybe in writing (how romantic, but whatever) that if she needs child care, YOU are the go-to person.

Good luck commie.

Yeah^^^^ all this.
Cover your back commie. Even if it's all friendly now, the court system is NEVER friendly.

Slipterid wrote: <snip>

comhcinc wrote:Except Steersman. Fuck that guy. :D

Awww poor Steers. What would we do for a mascot without him?

:) Sympathy for the devil? Thanks in any case. But part mascot, part whipping-boy, part shibboleth, although more than a few, thankfully, seem to appreciate or understand where I'm coming from.

In today's "reddit is run by morons" news, they fired their admin responsible for official, high-profile "ask me anything" Q&A events with no notice, cutting people off mid-response by shutting down the entire subforum, and leaving interviewees standing around the office with their thumbs up their asses.

This was apparently one of reddit's biggest selling points for investors, a bunch of the major subforums are shutting themselves down in protest, nobody knows what's going on, and everyone's pissed. Good job, guys.

Ape+lust wrote:

free thoughtpolice wrote:Right after a bunch of his nitwit baboons are finished talking about how Tim Hunt is so lacking in self awareness PZ drops this gem:

PZ Myers

2 July 2015 at 3:22 pm

Yeah, the terrible abusive sex part was…shuffling cards.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3elpYsZwa

That's right, PZ. Shuffling cards. And the fact that you told the woman to hold on to hers so she can have sex with you later. Durrr!

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: http://i.imgur.com/oYM8RgC.png

Since Fin Stollof's post will no doubt be changed to Comic Sans, I might point out that his (or her) name is an anagram for Font of Ills.

jimthepleb wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
This is fourth-hand information, so take or leave.

IMO you should be writing all this shit down: all this "I'm working so you cant see the kids" (really? Isn't that the perfect time to have them? Nobody, not no grandparent, can stop you seeing them if they are not with your wife, assuming she has not yet had a legal position taken against you being alone with them).

Or "I had hope to spend the fourth with them but my wife made plans to be with her family without discussing it with me." Get real, mate. I hope it all ends up in a wonderland of makeup anal and drinking tequila from her belly button. But this is an absolutely crucial time, when you absolutely need to be making accurate notes of every single one of these times when plans were changed by her, leading to you being denied access to your children. And her using other family members, instead of you, to cover for absences. State explicitly, maybe in writing (how romantic, but whatever) that if she needs child care, YOU are the go-to person.

Good luck commie.

Yeah^^^^ all this.
Cover your back commie. Even if it's all friendly now, the court system is NEVER friendly.

99% of my communication happens via google chat. It's all automatically backed up and filed for me by the great and powerful Google. I don't think she was lying to me and the 4th thing was an assumption on my part. My beef with her about that, and I brought this up with her, is she agreed to it without even talking to me about it.

I trust her more than just about anyone else in the world. I love her. I may be the biggest fool in the world but I do have a bit of common sense buried deep down inside.

Tauriq Moosa has an article up about abusive commenters online:
https://archive.is/IJ6vB
I left a comment. Wonder if it will make it out of moderation.

I know what it is like to get mobbed, name called and threatened online. Once I posted at what I thought was a social justice site. When I politely disagreed with the way some of the commenters were treating another commenter, I was automatically sworn at, called names, accused of criminal motives and one person threatened to come at and cut me me with a broken bottle.
The truly disappointing thing about the matter was that the blogger that ran the site had long been responsible for fostering that vicious, violent attitude and the angry hateful atmosphere.

Steersman wrote:Really don't think it helps matters at all to phrase things that way; far better and likely to be more accurate to say, "aggression and tribalism: it's more of an African thing".

Well you know I consider you an authority on proper language use, so I'll change it immediately :lol:

But we agree there's cause for concern. I think if people received a better education in statistical methods and the various pitfalls you can find in them, we'd not have to worry about language as much (not that I agree with your phrasing, either, rather that these sort of statements will cause trouble no matter what). I'd like to live in a world where even the average layman (I'm a layman, but consider myself far more familiar with how science works than most people) knew just how hard it was to prove *anything*. I picked the African example because it's one where we apparently do know for a fact they carry an allele that increases aggression, but, as Wade points out in the book, that fact alone says nothing if your goal is paint blacks as destined criminals (which I'm sure some people would be happy to do). We're not even close to understanding the full genetic mechanism for aggression, so you could just as easily say there's a yet-to-be-discovered allele carried by whites and asians that gives an even greater propensity to violence (again from the book, Fins carry HTR2B, predisposing them to violence when drunk), and we should treat them as criminals until such a valid concern has been ruled out.

Wild Zontargs wrote:In today's "reddit is run by morons" news, they fired their admin responsible for official, high-profile "ask me anything" Q&A events with no notice, cutting people off mid-response by shutting down the entire subforum, and leaving interviewees standing around the office with their thumbs up their asses.

This was apparently one of reddit's biggest selling points for investors, a bunch of the major subforums are shutting themselves down in protest, nobody knows what's going on, and everyone's pissed. Good job, guys.

A couple of months ago Reddit launched a standalone AMA app for smart phones. I have no clue about what happened to day but I can agree that AMAs have been on of Reddit's big selling points.

comhcinc wrote: Yeah^^^^ all this.
Cover your back commie. Even if it's all friendly now, the court system is NEVER friendly.

99% of my communication happens via google chat. It's all automatically backed up and filed for me by the great and powerful Google. I don't think she was lying to me and the 4th thing was an assumption on my part. My beef with her about that, and I brought this up with her, is she agreed to it without even talking to me about it.

I trust her more than just about anyone else in the world. I love her. I may be the biggest fool in the world but I do have a bit of common sense buried deep down inside.[/quote]

Glad to hear it. And you're not a fool, just a man (perhaps there's more overlap between the two than we'd like to admit). If my wife wanted to destroy me, I'd probably let her do it. That's just in the hardwiring.

paddybrown wrote:

Shatterface as Guest wrote:Feminist Julie Burchill in The Guardian back in 1999:

Julie Burchill isn't really a feminist. She's just a shit-stirrer, and she'll stir shit from whatever political position her employer wants her to. She's written for the Daily Mail as well as the Guardian. Even so, I'm really not comfortable with using the suicide of her son as a "gotcha".

Didn't know who she was, now I know that she's Christopher Hitchens in drag.

http://www.thejc.com/files/imagecache/b ... hill_0.jpg

We need to read and write about bees and wasps to create a space that legitimizes them. Like many other animals (especially insects), bees and wasps are objectified by our culture in a way that allows us to treat them with absolute disrespect.

If we care about issues of oppression or any non-human animal at all, we need to radically rethink bees and wasps because oppressions are interconnected, uphold one another, and it is our moral obligation to protect victims. I certainly don't know if this is the best way to radically rethink bees and wasps, but it is hopefully one of many attempts.

My dogs stirred up a yellowjacket nest in my back yard a few days ago and one of them got stung a few times. Wasps can go fuck themselves.

jet_lagg wrote:
Glad to hear it. And you're not a fool, just a man (perhaps there's more overlap between the two than we'd like to admit). If my wife wanted to destroy me, I'd probably let her do it. That's just in the hardwiring.

Yeah when you trust someone completely it's hard to turn that off. Right now I am still in freefall and trying to get my feet under me. It's going pretty well all things considered.

NoGodsEver wrote:

We need to read and write about bees and wasps to create a space that legitimizes them. Like many other animals (especially insects), bees and wasps are objectified by our culture in a way that allows us to treat them with absolute disrespect.

If we care about issues of oppression or any non-human animal at all, we need to radically rethink bees and wasps because oppressions are interconnected, uphold one another, and it is our moral obligation to protect victims. I certainly don't know if this is the best way to radically rethink bees and wasps, but it is hopefully one of many attempts.

My dogs stirred up a yellowjacket nest in my back yard a few days ago and one of them got stung a few times. Wasps can go fuck themselves.

I have never really like W.A.S.P. either. Fuck them.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0 ... 03159.jpeg

Git wrote:Quick comment on the Steersman thing:

Steerzo, seriously, you don't want to become the thing you hate. You are running the risk of doing so. Hate is so self-destructive. Let it go.

OM .... And for those who don’t think reading an abstract is a mortal sin – or even reading the Coles Notes TL;DR:

The results correspond to the fact that listening to ‘OM’ sound recruits neural systems implicated in emotional empathy.

;-)

But I agree that hate can be rather problematic at best, although I think it might be untenable to insist that anger, an apparently close cousin, can't reasonably be used to some positive effect: "O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth, / That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!" Seems to me that there is far too much whitewashing of the religion which ultimately does no one any good, and quite likely to do many some non-trivial amounts of evil. You might take a gander at the Wikipedia article on Criticism of Islam, in particular this portion:

In wake of the recent multiculturalism trend, Islam's influence on the ability or willingness of Muslim immigrants in the Western world,[10] and other countries such as India[11][12][13] and Russia,[14][15] to assimilate has been criticized.

Multiculturalism has its merits and its justifications. And its apologists who frequently have a tendency to ignore the fact that some segments of virtually any demographic don’t play well with others, and who need to be segregated one way or another. Apropos of which, an image from that article which shows some whitish Muslim, presumably, carrying a sign saying "Behead all those who insult the prophet" [piss on his name]. Deport the fuckers. [OM ….] ;-)

But of maybe somewhat less interest though similarly apropos, I happened to watch the other night on PBS an apparently new documentary on the history of the conflict over Palestine:

1913: Seeds of Conflict, a one-hour documentary directed by filmmaker Ben Loeterman, explores the divergent social forces growing in Palestine before World War I, when Arabs and Jews co-existed in harmony as Ottomans, each yearning for a land to call their own.

While I think that last phrasing on "harmony" is a bit of a whitewash or overly simplistic, it also seems that the documentary was a reasonably balanced if incomplete summary of the issues of the time. However, it seems to justify or provide some support for the view - voiced by even such as Arthur Ruppin who "was a Jewish German sociologist and statistician who relocated to Jaffa in 1907 to work for the World Zionist Organization" - that the actions of Jewish immigrants didn't do much to win them many friends and allies among the populace. And which was, arguably, a rather problematic contributor to subsequent wars and terrorism. Although that is not to say in any way shape or form that I think that Islam is, in large part, any less of an abomination.

Git wrote:Yes, objectively speaking I think Islam is a terrible belief system, but the same rights that allow you and me to say that is the same rights that allow people of all shapes and sorts to practice their belief systems, no matter how terrible you or I think they are.

Any time you propose a judicial measure, or even an extra - judicial measure, ask yourself the following question: would you still support it if "they" (insert whatever value of "they" you want) were to use that se measure against you and people who think like you?

Well, if I start spouting calls to behead those who, for example, disrespect me or my avatar, then hopefully I would still have enough in the way of equanimity to concede that such judical measures were justified. Practicing belief systems is one thing; espousing beliefs that constitute hate speech or that condones its translation into actions is quite another.

Git wrote:In a way, what is good for the goose has also be good for the gander.

Well, you've got me there. ;-) However - one might suggest that that aphorism is more or less predicated on the assumption that the meat of both tastes pretty much the same, and in which case the same sauce is appropriate for both. When there are significant differences then all bets are off, then we have to go to plan B. Which I don't see that many are prepared to address. While maybe mass deportations are maybe somewhat impracticable, at least at the moment, I don't see that it is unreasonable to expect that Muslim immigrants, either those already here or in the process, should be obliged to repudiate, in one way or the other, many if not most of the more problematic beliefs in their religion: freedom of religion is not an absolute - if it was then gay marriage would have been a non-starter.

The latest from PZ's Tim Witch Hunt comments:

CJO, egregious by any standard

2 July 2015 at 5:08 pm

Freethought blogs indeed

For fuck’s sake, I am so tired of these assholes. Freethought doesn’t have anything to do with providing a forum for your assholery, asshole.

offensive sexist nonsense

Joking about sex is not automatically sexist. if you think it is, or pretend to in order to score points with your ‘pitter buddies, you have the same stupid hangups as the rest of them, and those are fucking rooted in sexist attitudes in the first place. These supposedly clever turnaround gotchas don’t work. They demonstrate only and exactly the kind of fucked up sexist attitudes that lead to all this shit. Which I suppose could be sort of useful idiot type teaching moments, except you’re all such odious assholes.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... z3emWBK8xz

So we are not only sexist, we're sexually perverted or repressed or something.
Possibly true, at least the perverted part but at least we don't bronies or Ogvorbii. :P

screwtape wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: http://i.imgur.com/oYM8RgC.png

Since Fin Stollof's post will no doubt be changed to Comic Sans, I might point out that his (or her) name is an anagram for Font of Ills.

Looks like Fin Stollof posted a response under a new nym and of course Myers deleted the response. But not before I grabbed an archive. You can see bits and pieces of the now missing comment quoted in further replies from the likes of Nerd of Redhead.

https://archive.is/aZXjk

humblepie wrote: Sorry, PZ Myers blocked me so that I could not respond to you good people. Freethoughtblogs indeed.

Richard Smith @35,
Oh, well I guess that settles it then. Clearly that fact that someone else had previously used this incident as a gotcha totally invalidates any point that anyone else seeks to make in regards to the incident. /sarcasm

Nerd @36,
I have no idea what you are on about. I agree with you entirely that Hunt’s comments were sexist and offensive and I never suggested otherwise. I just feel that the stuff about having sex with an audience member is equally sexist and offensive, if not more so.

If you have a problem with that, show using of sexual harassment training where offering to have sex with an audience member is acceptable.

Or else your unevidenced subjective opinion will be flooshed.

Seven @37,
Thanks, you are pretty cute as well.

Dreaming @38,
You say it was just an “adult themed joke,” but I say in response:
Jesus fucking christ. Where do you people come from?
We know he was trying to be funny. That doesn’t excuse the fact that he was trying to be funny with sexist stereotypes in front of an audience of women.

Or, if you prefer:
“It’s a joke” is no excuse, the meaning and effect don’t change. It’s a joke at the expense of women, making them the butt of the joke, reinforcing negative stereotypes and creating a hostile climate.

Also, you just made up the bit about it being set up in advance. Besides, even if that were true that wouldn’t magically erase the fact that every other audience member (not to mention anyone who watches the video on YouTube) was subjected to this offensive sexist nonsense without their prior consent. Arranging in advance with the volunteer doesn’t erase the splash damage to everyone else who wasn’t aware and had not agreed in advance.

PZ Myers @43,
Could you describe which part of Hunt’s remarks comprised the “terrible abusive sex stuff?” I presume not, and yet you still seem to think Hunt’s remarks were offensive and sexist, right? With your mighty intellect I trust you can connect the dots from here.

Also, you once wrote that: “we’re trying to decide whether women are fuck toys and eye candy.” Don’t you think your little “have sex with me” stunt at the conference may have made some women feel more like they were seen as fucktoys and not as equals?

Aren’t you moved at all to cut someone else some slack given how much slack you allow for yourself?

Does it really never occur to you that you and your commenters would go ape shit if Hunt had done what you did and offered (even in a joking manner) to have sex with an audience member? It’s hard for some of us outsiders to believe that you are genuinely unaware of such blatant hypocrisy, because how on earth could any person lack self awareness to such an extreme degree as you appear?

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: http://i.imgur.com/PwGv5WF.png

It's okay when...etc...

This one here is particularaly interesting, as it's a classic case of Peez's 'horde' coming to believe their own bullshit - namely that Peez's creeping out at this woman he called up on stage was 'pre-arranged'.

No it wasn't. Peez has never stated that this was at all arranged beforehand. Peez was simply very lucky that the stranger he pulled from the audience turned out to be okay with the bearded scrote going full horntard on her.

It's not the first time I've seen a hordlet pull the 'it was pre-arranged' shite when this matter crops up. I have little doubt it'll be the last, either.

jet_lagg wrote:

Steersman wrote:Really don't think it helps matters at all to phrase things that way; far better and likely to be more accurate to say, "aggression and tribalism: it's more of an African thing".

Well you know I consider you an authority on proper language use, so I'll change it immediately :lol:

:) :geek: :mrgreen:

jet_lagg wrote:But we agree there's cause for concern. I think if people received a better education in statistical methods and the various pitfalls you can find in them, we'd not have to worry about language as much (not that I agree with your phrasing, either, rather that these sort of statements will cause trouble no matter what). I'd like to live in a world where even the average layman (I'm a layman, but consider myself far more familiar with how science works than most people) knew just how hard it was to prove *anything*. I picked the African example because it's one where we apparently do know for a fact they carry an allele that increases aggression, but, as Wade points out in the book, that fact alone says nothing if your goal is paint blacks as destined criminals (which I'm sure some people would be happy to do). We're not even close to understanding the full genetic mechanism for aggression, so you could just as easily say there's a yet-to-be-discovered allele carried by whites and asians that gives an even greater propensity to violence (again from the book, Fins carry HTR2B, predisposing them to violence when drunk), and we should treat them as criminals until such a valid concern has been ruled out.

But my point was that I rather doubt that all blacks carry that allele, and that all Finns carry the HTR2B allele: maybe only a small percentage do, but a percentage that is generally greater than many if not most other races. Failing to differentiate between the some and the all is a large part of what, arguably, underwrites the whole "blacks as destined [to be] criminals". At the risk of being yet again severely chastised about the chops for this modus operandi, something further from Pinker on that and a few related points:

The taboo on human nature has not just put blinkers on researchers but turned any discussion of it into a heresy that must be stamped out. Many writers are so desperate to discredit any suggestion of an innate human constitution that they have thrown logic and civility out the window. Elementary distinctions - "some" versus "all", "probable" versus "always", "is" versus "ought" - are eagerly flouted to paint human nature as an extremist doctrine and thereby steer readers away from it. The analysis of ideas is commonly replaced by political smears and person attacks. [Hello comhcinc ....] This poisoning of the intellectual climate has left us unequipped to analyze pressing issues about human nature just as new scientific discoveries are making them acute. [The Blank Slate; Preface, x]

Maybe those distinctions aren't always "eagerly flouted" for nefarious or intellectually dishonest reasons. But in the face of the rather problematic effects - in those circumstances and in many others - one might suggest the difference is largely academic.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

screw tape wrote:... Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel hypothesis as to why people, roughly the same in all important respects, can either go to the moon or still be chipping stone hand axes.

A fantastic book with a brilliant hypothesis . A must-read.

Also the basis for a 3-part PBS mini-series of the same name, worth watching.

Yep I am going to reread as well as Collapse myself at some point. Doing Pinker 1st though.

BTW, Diamond has been criticized about getting some facts wrong, like for instance in New Guinea. Some of his critics are Anthropologists of one stripe or another though and I tend to not take those people terribly seriously.

I have to admit that I do know someone with a degree in Anthropology in real life and she seems to be level headed and sensible ... so I long ago decided not to being up the more seedy aspects of her brethren and sisters seeing as while she is not quite a doddering old fossil like myself, she is getting up there. She is also a bit squeamish, you should have seen the expression on her face at one of my Sunday dinners when I brought up the subject of polyandry in Tibet ... she refused to read the paper when I offered it to her.

YMMV