Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Kirbmarc]

A very stupid mistake: When it reads "Famous ones included Alexandre Dumas' father and Alexander Pushkin's son" it should be "Famous ones included Alexandre Dumas' father and Alexander Pushkin's grandfather" I wrote a different sentence, edited it, and forgot to edit the last word before clicking "submit".

[Keating]

At the risk of stirring the pot : *trigger warning* Link leads to Breitbart.


Apparently Australia’s Prime Minister Tony Abbott doesn’t just talk tough on terrorism – he acts on it. On Wednesday his conservative coalition government will introduce new legislation stripping dual nationals of their Australian citizenship if they are involved in terrorism.

The article cites two other newspapers one the Dail Mail and the other ABC (AUZ) so it might be a thing I suppose.

Everytime he screws up Abbott tries to whip up a bit of fear. The power to do this is already there. The difference is that he wants politicians to be able to do it arbitrarily without going to the judiciary.

It'll be incredibly ironic if it turns out that Abbott hasn't renounced his British citizenship after all, and thus is stripped of his Australian citizenship by the next government.

[AndrewV69]

I'm pretty open on the citizenship stripping. But I also think countries should stop aid and trade to countries where the politicians kill their citizens.

We had a bloke from NZ who died recently (leaving 18 kids behind) when fighting against ISIS. It's fucked these kind of people don't get half as much coverage.

I want to see how the powers that be, actually go ahead and strip citizenship from relatives presumably this includes children and other dependents. What are they going to do with them afterwards? In the case of Syria, how are they going to get them there? via Turkey? or Lebanon? Drop the out of a plane in mid-air?

Somehow, I suspect that Senor Abbott has not thought about the consequences too deeply (if at all). Consider the following :

al-Nusra Front and Islamic State just to name two groups are fighting Assad and his SAA and yet have no problem fighting each other. This video (reasonably certain that the captives are IS ... not that certain that it is really al-Nursa or some other local group) gives an example anyway:

[youtube]LdhR3_E96Ho[/youtube]

My arabic is not great but this comment pretty well covers it:

Zara Hurriye 1 week ago
Even if this is from Deir-ez Zor last year, good.

For anyone who doesn't understand: the local Syrian rebels were fighting ISIS who at the time came to take over Deir-ez Zor. And they obviously caught some of them. They asked each one were they're from and what the hell they're doing here killing the local people.

The first kid was a Syrian from Aleppo, seemingly confused at what he's doing there.

Second guy is from al-Maghreb, said he came to fight the Nusayri's who were massacring Syrians, cameraman asks then why is he fighting the local Muslims.

Third is Tunisian, said he came to fight Nusayri's, 'no Nusayri's here'.

Fourth is from Aleppo, also came to fight Nusayri's, cameraman goes crazy and says the Nusayri's are in his town, but he's come all the way to kill people in Deir-ez Zor.

Last one is from Algeria, cameraman mocks him and says 'who did you come to kill sweetheart?'

BTW the Nusayriyyah is an extremist Shi group and apparently the captured IS fighters were supposed to be fighting them. Instead apparently they were killing Sunni in Deir-ez Zor to gain control. IS has been doing the same in Iraq, controlling Sunni tribal areas by killing the locals into submission.

You might be wondering what happened to the IS fighters later on? Click on the link below and scroll down for the images. Here is a hint, they lost their heads.

*warning* Graphic images ... NSFW


So you are going to deport people into this mess? Really? You are really going to do this?

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Jan Steen, where are you?

[Brive1987]

Britain has been stripping citizenship from terrorists for years - since the tube bombings at least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... .html?_r=0

Fuck-em.

If you want to go chopping heads with ISIS don't bother booking a return ticket.

[Richard Dworkins]

Not sure. In general I'm hesitant to call people racists, because the word (at least in my lifetime) has been used to describe truly hateful individuals. The sort you'd go to literal war with. I see no reason to go to war with steers. Maybe if he was a political leader with an entire nation following him. He's an asshole, to be sure. He's casually bigoted toward a large group of people based on stupid reasoning, but I also really trend toward the idea that bigoted thought should be seen as silly, something to be ridiculed rather than eradicated by any means necessary. It's a more nuanced perspective. My uncle (now deceased) was a racist IMO. I loved him. He was a genuinely good guy. I don't think he'd go out and "lynch a nigger", but his attitudes were harmful toward social cohesion in general.

Well if "nigger" is not necessarily a racist word, then nor is racist necessarily a pejorative, even though the most common use of it is as such. Within the Racist Communities, people are quite proud of their belief in the superiority of their ethnicity and as such would not be phased if you called them a racist.

I'm sure there is an article somewhere that I can use to confirm this position. Perhaps within the the original middle German version of "The Chymical Marriage of Christian Rosenkreutz" Johannas Andreae points out that I am right, I dunno I haven't read it but that I've heard of it should be good enough for everyone to defer to my pretence at literacy.

[DaveDodo007]

Well, at least if he adopted he wouldn't "discriminate based on genetics." Right, Tauriq?


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc13 ... retard.png

Was that last awesome smillie meant to go #fulloolon?

[KiwiInOz]

Britain has been stripping citizenship from terrorists for years - since the tube bombings at least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... .html?_r=0

Fuck-em.

If you want to go chopping heads with ISIS don't bother booking a return ticket.

I agree with the sentiment, but have an issue with the process. I would rather it went through a judicial process than be at the whim of Dutton, and that there was a foolproof way to link it to Treason as defined in the Crimes Act 1958.

S9 A(1)(d) of the Crimes Act potentially applies - assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist, an enemy at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, whether or not the existence of a state of war has been declared;

The penalty for Treason is imprisonment.

The rhetoric of Abbott would have ISIS at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, but I'm not sure whether it would stand legal challenge here or under international law.

[Richard Dworkins]

Yeah, he's been on a multi-week rampage attacking gamers and developers because The Witcher 3, based loosely on Poland of the early 1200s, wasn't full of minorities. No shit, asshole, neither was Poland. Then he fucked the interpretation of the whole PC Master Race joke to indicate gamers are racist.

Total moron. People called him out on his stupidity. He claims victimhood and rage-deletes his Twitter account. So, of course, he gets his twitter victim points for quitting even though he was just a massive douche canoe.

There really is no defense for how stupid SJWs are being, attacking a Polish game from Polish developers about medieval Poland... Because it didn't have enough black people in it.

Maybe they could have a point if the game was about Medieval Florence, Rome or Egypt. But how many black people would have even been able to get to Poland?

Well they could combat it by having an adventure to overthrow an evil Pharoah of Dynastic Egypt where everyone is white, since historical accuracy is not needed in fantasy story telling. In fact, perhaps they should go further and remake "The Colour Purple" with the blokes from "Entourage".

[CuntajusRationality]

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

I don't believe you have been following the Rusty Heap of Diodes, Streesman (Piss Be Upon Him)'s verbal (or, more accurately, textual) diarrhea. When someone advocates mass deportation, asking people to piss on religious books, it is only fair that one asks that normal humans piss on this old demented metal scrap heap's positron chip to prove that they are human. Thats all.

I actually like Steersman, though I don't read everything he writes and do disagree with him on many fronts.

As regards the stuff about mass-deportations and the special theory of racial slurs, I for one embrace the piss-on-Steersman test.

[Kirbmarc]

Carrier made a video about "Disproving Gods with History and Science":

[youtube]NFGTu-OxFpU[/youtube]

While some of his general points are interesting when he gets down to the details he's very sloppy and inaccurate.

Some people are already comparing him (unfavorably) to Zeitgeist. While I don't think he's that bad, I expect much better from a professional historian.

[Michael J]

Britain has been stripping citizenship from terrorists for years - since the tube bombings at least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... .html?_r=0

Fuck-em.

If you want to go chopping heads with ISIS don't bother booking a return ticket.

I agree with the sentiment, but have an issue with the process. I would rather it went through a judicial process than be at the whim of Dutton, and that there was a foolproof way to link it to Treason as defined in the Crimes Act 1958.

S9 A(1)(d) of the Crimes Act potentially applies - assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist, an enemy at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, whether or not the existence of a state of war has been declared;

The penalty for Treason is imprisonment.

The rhetoric of Abbott would have ISIS at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, but I'm not sure whether it would stand legal challenge here or under international law.

We've seen enough cases already of ASIO and the Government targeting someone where the case falls apart in court.

[Aneris]

Let's say I made a game in a fantasy world. I would have to depict the environment, villages and people living in them.

Part One
“Yay, I can finally come up with my game idea, I'm sticking to MY culture, and I have some nuance, idea, thing that I want to show and tell”

• Social Justice Warriors: Racist! Where are the People of Colour. You can add griffons and wolpertingers and all these creatures but no black people?!

Part Two
“Okay, now I do part two. This time I add other ethnicities. I breaks my game world, because how come all those multicultural people live in rural medieval villages? But whatever, I'll just make it!”

• Social Justice Warriors: “Did you literally just blackface some characters? OMG! racist!!”

Part Three
“Hey everyone, we make part three. This time, I'll promise, it's going to be awesome, we include African mythology into it! You'll love it.

• Social Justice Warriors: You don't get to culturally appropriate other people's cultures! This is slavery and colonialism all over again! This erases the delegetimized marginalized and their stories!

Part Four
“Part Four is coming! We now hired an african writer for the african mythology! We listened!”

• Social Justice Warriors: And you expect applause for just being a decent person! Fuck off!
  [...] And what about the marginalized LGTBQRVX people of the Kamchatka Peninsula!? [...] Women are just objects in the game, you can interact with them and they aren't real people! Misogyny!

Part Five
“Hey guys, we make part five now! It's set on a fictionalized north-sea coast. Everyone is a white fisherman! u mad lol!”

• Social Justice Warriors: racist! sexist!

[Couch]

Britain has been stripping citizenship from terrorists for years - since the tube bombings at least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... .html?_r=0

Fuck-em.

If you want to go chopping heads with ISIS don't bother booking a return ticket.

I agree with the sentiment, but have an issue with the process. I would rather it went through a judicial process than be at the whim of Dutton, and that there was a foolproof way to link it to Treason as defined in the Crimes Act 1958.

S9 A(1)(d) of the Crimes Act potentially applies - assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist, an enemy at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, whether or not the existence of a state of war has been declared;

The penalty for Treason is imprisonment.

The rhetoric of Abbott would have ISIS at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, but I'm not sure whether it would stand legal challenge here or under international law.

We've seen enough cases already of ASIO and the Government targeting someone where the case falls apart in court.

QFT. ASIO and the Government need more checks and balances, not less. What's happening now is a different set of challenges than was faced when current laws were drafted. But that whould precipitate the drafting of new laws subject to the usual judicial oversight and determination, not removal of the judiciary from the process.

It's populist knee-jerk politics which resonates with a not-insignificant part of the electorate, evidently including Brive.

[Kirbmarc]

I really want a "PoC" woman skilled at making good games to make a games that pisses off all the SJWs. There should be no black characters in it, the women should act sexually and have big boobs, the game should be incredibly violent. And it should be a huge success.

So when all the SJWs would join forces to whine and complain, the "PoC" woman creator should tell them to fuck off, that they don't represent all women or all "POCs" and they're real racist and sexist because they presume they can think better than other women and "POCs".

And I want it to happen publicly, on television. Then buy some popcorn and look at the SJW as they flail around either hurling abusive stuff at her, revealing their nasty side to the general public.

The day this happens I'll leave the Pit because our job will be done.

[Couch]

I really want a "PoC" woman skilled at making good games to make a games that pisses off all the SJWs. There should be no black characters in it, the women should act sexually and have big boobs, the game should be incredibly violent. And it should be a huge success.

So when all the SJWs would join forces to whine and complain, the "PoC" woman creator should tell them to fuck off, that they don't represent all women or all "POCs" and they're real racist and sexist because they presume they can think better than other women and "POCs".

And I want it to happen publicly, on television. Then buy some popcorn and look at the SJW as they flail around either hurling abusive stuff at her, revealing their nasty side to the general public.

The day this happens I'll leave the Pit because our job will be done.

OMG, isn't this EXACTLY why KickStarter was invented!

[dogen]

I really want a "PoC" woman skilled at making good games to make a games that pisses off all the SJWs. There should be no black characters in it, the women should act sexually and have big boobs, the game should be incredibly violent. And it should be a huge success.

Well, Revolution 60 appears to be all-white, big-titted women.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Screen.png

Unfortunately, the game sucked. Which is unsurprising, given that it was created by Brianna Wu,

[Brive1987]

Britain has been stripping citizenship from terrorists for years - since the tube bombings at least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... .html?_r=0

Fuck-em.

If you want to go chopping heads with ISIS don't bother booking a return ticket.

I agree with the sentiment, but have an issue with the process. I would rather it went through a judicial process than be at the whim of Dutton, and that there was a foolproof way to link it to Treason as defined in the Crimes Act 1958.

S9 A(1)(d) of the Crimes Act potentially applies - assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist, an enemy at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, whether or not the existence of a state of war has been declared;

The penalty for Treason is imprisonment.

The rhetoric of Abbott would have ISIS at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, but I'm not sure whether it would stand legal challenge here or under international law.

Oh definitely remove the decision making from the minister. I have worked with Morrison. Nuff said.

[Brive1987]

The rhetoric of Abbott would have ISIS at war with the Commonwealth of Australia, but I'm not sure whether it would stand legal challenge here or under international law.

We've seen enough cases already of ASIO and the Government targeting someone where the case falls apart in court.

QFT. ASIO and the Government need more checks and balances, not less. What's happening now is a different set of challenges than was faced when current laws were drafted. But that whould precipitate the drafting of new laws subject to the usual judicial oversight and determination, not removal of the judiciary from the process.

It's populist knee-jerk politics which resonates with a not-insignificant part of the electorate, evidently including Brive.[/quote]

When a dual national chooses to fight for a terror organisation our airforce is busy bombing with good reason. An organisation that epitomises everything vile and dangerous to our basic world view and chooses to do so despite having been issued clear warnings about the consequences. Well then that fool has made the decision for themselves.

All we need is a proper process to ensure we haven't misunderstood what they are yelling at us.

You sound like you might be wealthy enough to vote green? ;)

[Brive1987]

Bugger

[deLurch]

I'm pretty open on the citizenship stripping. But I also think countries should stop aid and trade to countries where the politicians kill their citizens.

That might be more countries than you might expect depending on how you count them.

The US has a death penalty in some states. State governors have the right to pardon such convicts. Then you have the range of deaths from police officers. How well or poorly you take those deaths may range on how corrupt or good you think a countries police force is. However there is the recent case of an officer shooing an unarmed fleeing suspect. That officer, in an unusual switch, will be prosecuted. The video helps, but still not a shoe in. And then we have the two murderous convicts from New York that escaped. One killed, the other was shot, unarmed as he was fleeing to a tree line. The officer was concerned he would disappear once he hit that tree line. No one is the media is flinching on that. I am starting to suspect that it is legal to shoot a fleeing unarmed escaped prisoner in the US.

And then we get to the rest of the world. I know my country's issues. Every country has their problems.

[Tigzy]

Rachel. Dolezal.
Richard. Dawkins.
One is a woman,
Of African might,
Soul of the lion,
Skin black as night.
One is a white man,
Evil of course,
But he will tremble,
When the lion roars.

Rachel Dolezal,
You are my gal,
African sisters we are definitely,
Hot lesbian lovers I hope becomes reality,
Me licking your nipples while you writhe like a snake,
With delight and so tasty,
Like a nice piece of hake.

Richard Dawkins,
You are a man,
You cannot come into me,
For my vagina says No Entry,
The melons I like are not those called water,
For I do prefer,
The ones on a woman: a mom or a daughter.

Hahahaa! I admit, I did have to recheck to see if if Yemmi hadn't actually sneaked that poem into her post. Seriously, that could have been one of hers.

For any newbs who might believe us to be exagerrating about the astonishing level of foulness as regards the quality of Yemmy's versifying, I refer you to the doggerel which started it off, Mother Nature, My Explosive Lover! Yes, that really is the title. Also, bear in mind that this, uh, 'ecosexual' poem was inspired by the 2011 Japanese tsunami which killed nearly 16,000 people. http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ive-lover/

[Billie from Ockham]

Carrier made a video about "Disproving Gods with History and Science":

[youtube]NFGTu-OxFpU[/youtube]

While some of his general points are interesting when he gets down to the details he's very sloppy and inaccurate.

Some people are already comparing him (unfavorably) to Zeitgeist. While I don't think he's that bad, I expect much better from a professional historian.

I have presented at enough conferences to say with confidence that men give better talks if they got laid the night before. If you have a problem with a talk by Dr Richard Carrier PhD, then take it up with the conference organizers for not having sufficient partially-drunk, polyamorous, low-self-esteem ex-hookers available.

[Tigzy]

Fuck me. So Tim Hunt makes some dipshit joke and he's hounded out of his job. Peez and ilk: HURRAH!

But his FTB buddy says some stupid shit and ends up flouncing from twitter as a result. Peez and ilk: WAAAAAAAH FUCKIN TRADGEDY!

Christ on a bike, take a look at yourselves. Fucking hell.

Maybe, though one might argue you're not really comparing apples and apples, that the picture has a few flaws. For one thing bleep bleep waaa blop bleep etc.

I care not for your input, droid, and I have therefore ignored you accordingly.

[Slipterid]

Though I wonder, given that Dawkins objected to the "witch hunt" and mob behaviour of those targeting Hunt, whether he'll make similar objections about those targeting Moosa.

It wouldn't surprise me if Dawkins hasn't even heard of Moosa. An obscure FtB blogger and a fight with gamergate are not likely to be among the things that he spends time reading about.

I got the impression from his tweets that Dawkins generally feels that the way in which people on twitter gang up on others is not a good thing.

[comhcinc]

Fuck me. So Tim Hunt makes some dipshit joke and he's hounded out of his job. Peez and ilk: HURRAH!

But his FTB buddy says some stupid shit and ends up flouncing from twitter as a result. Peez and ilk: WAAAAAAAH FUCKIN TRADGEDY!

Christ on a bike, take a look at yourselves. Fucking hell.

Maybe, though one might argue you're not really comparing apples and apples, that the picture has a few flaws. For one thing bleep bleep waaa blop bleep etc.

I care not for your input, droid, and I have therefore ignored you accordingly.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldsj0 ... o1_250.gif

[free thoughtpolice]

In the comments at PZ's:

Now banned, Ansatz wrote:
“I’m making the observation that many here engage in behaviors that they ostensibly decry.”
Yes, I notice how full of doxxing, stalking, death threats, and shock pics these forums are…
[/snark]

Let's see. Skep tickle was doxxed, Abbie was stalked, a bunch of them threatened to shove rotting dead rodents and/or rusty knives up people's arses and I'm not sqeamish but this is pretty shocking. (Warning: PZ Myers tries dressing up as a pirate, looking menacingly into the camera with a letter opener in his gob.) And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

IIRC, there was that dude over at FTB who offered to break legs & mark certain people by painting a butterfly in the driveway.

Oh and one of the little old cat ladies there threatened to cut me with a broken bottle! :shock:

[jet_lagg]

And steers, why your reasoning is stupid has been explained in wonderful, lucid detail many times now (by an actual linguist!). You've lost the argument my friend. I marvel every time you throw up another wall of text.

[jet_lagg]

I really want a "PoC" woman skilled at making good games to make a games that pisses off all the SJWs. There should be no black characters in it, the women should act sexually and have big boobs, the game should be incredibly violent. And it should be a huge success.

So when all the SJWs would join forces to whine and complain, the "PoC" woman creator should tell them to fuck off, that they don't represent all women or all "POCs" and they're real racist and sexist because they presume they can think better than other women and "POCs".

And I want it to happen publicly, on television. Then buy some popcorn and look at the SJW as they flail around either hurling abusive stuff at her, revealing their nasty side to the general public.

The day this happens I'll leave the Pit because our job will be done.

Well it wasn't a woman, but otherwise that is precisely what happened with Deus Ex and the mechanical apartheid fiasco. Black developer wanted to use scifi to explore themes he personally experiences. SJWS scream racist. He stands up and tells them to get fucked

If I started the hashtag #NotYourDrizzt to complain about the token "good" dark elf in a series of books with myriad dad guys with dark skin, which of the following is most likely to happen:

1) my Twitter account would gain thousands of followers

2) my Twitter account would be banned

3) the BBC would invite me onto the radio

4) at least one serious R. A. Salvator fan would argue with me that Jarlaxle was also a good guy

5) Steersman would argue that "elf-nigger" is a compliment

6) There would be a #drowlivesmatter backlash

Touché and good-night!

[jet_lagg]

Fucking tapatalk quoting....

[comhcinc]

Fucking tapatalk quoting....

Fucking A!

[Eskarina]

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

I don't believe you have been following the Rusty Heap of Diodes, Streesman (Piss Be Upon Him)'s verbal (or, more accurately, textual) diarrhea. When someone advocates mass deportation, asking people to piss on religious books, it is only fair that one asks that normal humans piss on this old demented metal scrap heap's positron chip to prove that they are human. Thats all.

That went straight over my head, so mea maxima culpa for not researching properly (I have a quick scroll finger). I certainly do not condone mass deportation of humans for whatever reason.

Being a atheist, however, I'd have no problem on pissing on religious books if I thought it would stop abuse in the name of said religion.

[Eskarina]

<snip>
I should say that the Quran, like all religious literature, is a mix of sublime, absurd and downright violent. ....

My point is that those who make blanket statements like "Quran is an awful book …" are totally ignorant of its contents and its meaning to Muslims. It behoves skeptics to think carefully and try and understand its content before making silly, ignorant statements.

Bolding mine. Making blanket statements about any given subject, especially without knowing what you're talking about is quite daft and a bad habit of most humans.

Having said that, let me ask what is in the Quran that is unique and beneficent to humankind?

Indeed. Though I think the phrase "awful book" is somewhat ambiguous: what percentage of the statements in a book has to be odious or objectionable before it acquires the characterization "awful"? Or "bullshit" as the case may be. Part of the reason why I at least try qualify such statements: maybe even Mein Kampf has a few credible arguments that warrants something other than the categorical "totally awful", maybe it's only "mostly or almost entirely awful".

In any case, while I expect that even the Quran has a few redeeming qualities that allow the use of "mostly awful", I kind of expect that it is still a rather long way from the Bible on the score of such qualities. A relevant portion from Dawkins' The God Delusion:

The King James Bible of 1611 ... includes passages of outstanding literary merit in its own right, for example the Song of Songs, and the sublime Ecclesiastes .... But the main reason the English Bible needs to be part of our education is that it is a major source book for literary culture. The same applies to the legends of the Greek and Roman gods, and we learn about them without being asked to believe in them. Here is a quick list of biblical, or Bible-inspired phrases and sentences that occur commonly in literary or conversational English, from great poetry to hackneyed cliché, from proverb to gossip: [two pages of phrases, 384-385] .... Surely ignorance of the Bible is bound to impoverish one’s appreciation of English literature?

Which I think highlights the more problematic aspects of the Quran: the Pew Forum survey (link provided earlier) notes that even in America, some 50% of the Muslim population still believes that the Quran is literally true. Seems to me to be a rather large and potentially explosive powder-keg that "we" - Western cultures - would do well to excise.

I asked a simple non-rhetorical question of H. Korban, which he chose not to reply to. No need to fill in for him.

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

:-) Thanks for the vote of confidence: "No, I'm Spartacus!" So to speak.

I just don't like people hectoring me and telling me what I should and should not think and what determines my humanity. I'm a second wave feminist.

In the safe knowledge that very few here will understand the lyrics, I'll leave this:

[.youtube]5wU1Dr5Vj_w[/youtube]

A good bet, methinks. :-) At least in my case - couldn't even find a decent translation although I gather it's a rock band of sorts. Amused to note the many English words scattered throughout the Dutch text.

Dutch?

[comhcinc]

Being a atheist, however, I'd have no problem on pissing on religious books if I thought it would stop abuse in the name of said religion.

I have always wanted to do a p r stunt where we get together a ton of religious books and unload them at a recycling center. I think it has the bite of being disrespectful enough to make a point while not venting into that oh so easy hating god place.

[Steersman]

[.quote="H. Korban"]
<snip>
I should say that the Quran, like all religious literature, is a mix of sublime, absurd and downright violent. ....

My point is that those who make blanket statements like "Quran is an awful book …" are totally ignorant of its contents and its meaning to Muslims. It behoves skeptics to think carefully and try and understand its content before making silly, ignorant statements. [/.quote]

Bolding mine. Making blanket statements about any given subject, especially without knowing what you're talking about is quite daft and a bad habit of most humans.

Having said that, let me ask what is in the Quran that is unique and beneficent to humankind?

Indeed. Though I think the phrase "awful book" is somewhat ambiguous: what percentage of the statements in a book has to be odious or objectionable before it acquires the characterization "awful"? Or "bullshit" as the case may be. Part of the reason why I at least try qualify such statements: maybe even Mein Kampf has a few credible arguments that warrants something other than the categorical "totally awful", maybe it's only "mostly or almost entirely awful".
....

I asked a simple non-rhetorical question of H. Korban, which he chose not to reply to. No need to fill in for him.

Maybe not, but I saw it as a golden opportunity for a teaching moment - so to speak, a chance to emphasize your "blanket statements" comment. Particularly as I've frequently argued that categorical statements of virtually any kind tend to be rather problematic, and to derail most conversations.

<snip>

In the safe knowledge that very few here will understand the lyrics, I'll leave this:

[.youtube]5wU1Dr5Vj_w[/youtube]

A good bet, methinks. :-) At least in my case - couldn't even find a decent translation although I gather it's a rock band of sorts. Amused to note the many English words scattered throughout the Dutch text.

Dutch?

German, I gather. My mistake - as I've previously noted; not sure why I thought that but I seem to recollect that there was something that led me, erroneously, to that conclusion.

[comhcinc]

So an update on the job search. I had a really awesome interview last week with a place I really hopes hires me. I have a phone interview in about an hour at a place that I would not mind working at. I put in my resume at a law office looking for help, wrote a cover letter to go along with my awesome new resume (thanks couch) and while that might be a long shot I think if I could get in I can wow them with knowledge of basic contract law and pro wrestling.

[Shatterface as Guest]

I've done some research and apparently it isn't actually possible to electrocute yourself while utinating on a Steersman unless you penis comes into contact.

Shatterface

[Steersman]

And steers, why your reasoning is stupid has been explained in wonderful, lucid detail many times now (by an actual linguist!).

And, no doubt, many if not most Christian fundamentalists are greatly impressed by the "wonderful, lucid detail" with which William Lane Craig "proves" the existence of God. And you might note that Adam Croom is also a linguist, and, presumably, one with a few more publications under his belt than has Kirbmarc. And you might consider that being a supposed expert isn't a guarantee of the correctness of a claim, that "we" - at least those with a claim or pretension to the label of "skeptic" - have an obligation to assess various claims on their merits.

You've lost the argument my friend. I marvel every time you throw up another wall of text.

Maybe. Though you might have more credibility if you'd actually read and attempted to understand those "walls of text".

[comhcinc]

I've done some research and apparently it isn't actually possible to electrocute yourself while utinating on a Steersman unless you penis comes into contact.

Shatterface

While I see that you have a good start on a decent hypothesis, I believe a lot more testing is need.

I am off to buy a couple of gallons of water.

[Karmakin]

I don't know if people have saw this yet, but a prominent person in the YouTube gaming community (TotalBiscuit) weighs in on the whole Moosa thing.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smsdpe

[comhcinc]

Can I get a tiny steersman under my name? I like to think of myself as the anti steersman. Short, to the point, reasonable. Only commenting on things I actually understand.


Please?

[Billie from Ockham]

I've done some research and apparently it isn't actually possible to electrocute yourself while utinating on a Steersman unless you penis comes into contact.

Shatterface

What makes it "impossible" to be electrocuted by peeing on something (with decent voltage) is the fact that pee usually breaks up into drops after traveling less than a foot from your penis. However, if you are blessed with (or maybe saddled with, depending on your point of view) an urethra that is capable of producing long-distance laminar flow, then it is possible.

[youtube]dNTEtI6iToM[/youtube]

Please note that one prerequisite of an urethra that is capable of laminar flow is high straight-line length immediately before the exit. Hence, males who are hung like horses and/or pee while at least semi-turgid are at the most risk, while young women are at the least risk. How's that for privilege, pisslord?

[jet_lagg]

And steers, why your reasoning is stupid has been explained in wonderful, lucid detail many times now (by an actual linguist!).

And, no doubt, many if not most Christian fundamentalists are greatly impressed by the "wonderful, lucid detail" with which William Lane Craig "proves" the existence of God. And you might note that Adam Croom is also a linguist, and, presumably, one with a few more publications under his belt than has Kirbmarc. And you might consider that being a supposed expert isn't a guarantee of the correctness of a claim, that "we" - at least those with a claim or pretension to the label of "skeptic" - have an obligation to assess various claims on their merits.

You've lost the argument my friend. I marvel every time you throw up another wall of text.

Maybe. Though you might have more credibility if you'd actually read and attempted to understand those "walls of text".

Your citation of Croom was adressed. It's bullshit to pretend otherwise. Anyway, I do read your first wall of text, understand it just fine, then start through your second wall, realize it's the same wall, then wonder if you plan to just keep repeating yourself endlessly despite it clear you're not convincing anyone of anything. Come the 50th iteration I become convinced that, yes, that is exactly what you plan to do.

[H. Korban]

Being a atheist, however, I'd have no problem on pissing on religious books if I thought it would stop abuse in the name of said religion.

Pray tell me how pissing on a religious book "would stop abuse in the name of said religion"?

I don't believe that Islam is irredeemably violent or irredeemably prone to extremism. I was raised in an orthodox (not extremist) family, in a highly close-knit Shia/Ismaili community. The community leaders and members all denounce the violence by the mad-Salafi/Wahabbi types. In fact, the choicest curses are reserved for these bearded billy goats mullahs. The existence of Ismailis, Bohras, Sufis and other highly modern and liberal sects in Islam gives one hope that interpretation of fundamental texts can be done in a way which encourages liberal thinking among the larger Muslim populations. Pissing (except on Steersman), deportation etc. only alienates and does not help in any way.

You asked about uniqueness about Quranic teaching. I don't know your background, but assuming you were not raised in a traditional environment, it is hard to understand the fundamental impact these books have on a believers life. More than the Bible, the Quran serves as a text which defines Muslim life. A large part of Muslim behavior (both good and bad) is driven by Quranic injunctions. For example, I already mentioned the concept of zakaat (required annual charity based on savings). This is a very big deal. You can not imagine the thousands of people who are served free food, medicines, school books, uniforms, etc from zakaat money. I think this type of local small-scale, but high impact, charity is probably unique. It is hard to imagine the poverty and destituteness in places like India and Pakistan. I was raised in a poor family, but we were kings compared to the people who lived in slums. Even with limited resources (which practically meant, for example, no new clothes, books or toys for us) we contributed to zakaat and helped those poorer than us directly. As I mentioned before, the Quran has specific instructions on who deserves the funds. Interestingly, the Quran suggests doing charity "at home" first, and then on a larger scale. For example, ones own destitute relatives should be helped first, then local poor (orphans, widows etc). This was a daily occurrence in my community, where many women would run social upliftment programs from their homes (like my grandmother did). Giving money for school fees and uniforms, grains and groceries, etc is a big part of the community work.

On a larger scale, as I mentioned, for example, the Aga Khan Development Network, is funded entirely off zakaat and khumus money, and funds very large scale charitable projects all around the world. These projects are not limited to Muslims only, but extend to everyone. For example, many modern hospitals would otherwise not exist in remote places in Central Asia, were it not for the AKDN. You can read about the AKDN below:

http://www.akdn.org

Now, I do agree that parts of the Quran, when interpreted literally are problematic. Here, interestingly, Sufis and Ismailis (and even some Sunni sects) have developed interpretations which attempt to reduce or redirect. I mentioned an example before. One must understand, however, that understanding the Quran is not simple. There are bewildering array of interpretations and, despite the simplistic arguments put forward by neo-liberal colonialists, there are many interpretations of the Quran which advocate peace and harmony.

In passing, I want to mention the Rasail Ikhwan as-Safa, a compendium written probably in the 10th or 11th century, for a highly egalitarian and scientific interpretation of Islam. Like the Novum Organum, one should read it (and other texts by Rumi, Hafiz, Ibn Arabi, Mulla Sadra, the Bab and modernizing Muslims) before making ignorant comments, and going on and on, like ignorant chest-thumping baboons, about "nigger", "cunt", pissing and mass deportation.

[Parody Accountant]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

In general in the middle ages black people were a rarity in Europe. People knew that they existed, you could see some of them in the capitals and especially in the commercial districts and in the courts

So, basically the same as today?




Ok, I'll see myself out...

[Steersman]

Though I wonder, given that Dawkins objected to the "witch hunt" and mob behaviour of those targeting Hunt, whether he'll make similar objections about those targeting Moosa.

It wouldn't surprise me if Dawkins hasn't even heard of Moosa. An obscure FtB blogger and a fight with gamergate are not likely to be among the things that he spends time reading about.

I got the impression from his tweets that Dawkins generally feels that the way in which people on twitter gang up on others is not a good thing.

Agreed. Although I think it might "pour oil on troubled waters" and enhance his reputation if he were to explicitly and clearly reject mob behaviour whether it occurs in the in-group or in the out-group: nothing like criticizing some in one's own tribe to prove a commitment to an overarching principle. You might be interested in this old SMBC cartoon which argues that each side, each group is "some percent crazy assholes", an unthinking and unreasoning mob, who unfortunately have the tendency or effect of defining or channeling the discussion in ways that are anything but productive.

Reminds me of a quote of Schiller on the back cover of a book - Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, highly recommended - that I've finally gotten around to reading:

Anyone taken as an individual is tolerably sensible and reasonable - as a member of a crowd he at once becomes a blockhead."

Not quite sure why that happens, although I kind of think it is analogous to, and for the same reason as, the swarming of locusts. But that's a hypothesis for another day. :-)

[feathers]

[.youtube]5wU1Dr5Vj_w[/youtube]
A good bet, methinks. :-) At least in my case - couldn't even find a decent translation although I gather it's a rock band of sorts. Amused to note the many English words scattered throughout the Dutch text.

Dutch?

Maybe he confused 'Dutch' with 'Deutsch'. Wait, let me explain that:

[youtube]eE_IUPInEuc[/youtube]

Questions?

[Oglebart]

[


What makes it "impossible" to be electrocuted by peeing on something (with decent voltage) is the fact that pee usually breaks up into drops after traveling less than a foot from your penis. However, if you are blessed with (or maybe saddled with, depending on your point of view) an urethra that is capable of producing long-distance laminar flow, then it is possible.

[youtube]dNTEtI6iToM[/youtube]

Please note that one prerequisite of an urethra that is capable of laminar flow is high straight-line length immediately before the exit. Hence, males who are hung like horses and/or pee while at least semi-turgid are at the most risk, while young women are at the least risk. How's that for privilege, pisslord?

Just watch out for candiru if you're near the water, although it's a bit of an urban myth it seems.

http://www.decodedscience.com/candiru-a ... nked/31635

[Kirbmarc]

And, no doubt, many if not most Christian fundamentalists are greatly impressed by the "wonderful, lucid detail" with which William Lane Craig "proves" the existence of God. And you might note that Adam Croom is also a linguist, and, presumably, one with a few more publications under his belt than has Kirbmarc. And you might consider that being a supposed expert isn't a guarantee of the correctness of a claim, that "we" - at least those with a claim or pretension to the label of "skeptic" - have an obligation to assess various claims on their merits.

To give Steers some marginal credit, my supposed authority isn't what matters in this debate, and neither is the number of publications under my belt (or those under Croom's belt for that matter), although those numbers are pretty much the same (at least according to LinkedIn) since neither I nor Croom are key figures in the world of linguistics.

Of course I can't link to my page on LinkedIn without doxxing myself and i won't risk exposing myself in such a fashion on a forum occasionally visited by people who have an axe to grind against me but I'm happy to provide it in private to those who want to check (even Steersman).

But that's a marginal issue. What matters is that Croom supports only the first half of the Steers argument (i.e. "there are some contexts in which slurs do not correspond exactly to their NPC") but not the second half (i.e. "therefore if people from the in-group and the out-group use a term the context remains the same and the pragmatic implicatures are the same"), as I have previously shown with direct quotes from the paper in question and other papers (which explain that Croom is trying to find a linguistic explanation for the phenomenon of reappropriation, not a justification for the use of slurs from members of the out-group).

By the way I'm planning to contact Adam Croom privately and ask him some clarifications about the article in question. If and when he answers I will ask for his permission to publish his words on this website. Steersman will no doubt appreciate a comment from the author of the paper he's been discussing for months so far.

[Brive1987]

I'm going to call bullshit on PZs claim that the typical plumber has the same store of bon mots as a nobel laureate.

Naturally this depends on your definition of "interesting things to say"

Peez really has got his knickers in an ophie knot over successful scientists.

[comhcinc]

I'm going to call bullshit on PZs claim that the typical plumber has the same store of bon mots as a nobel laureate.

Naturally this depends on your definition of "interesting things to say"

Peez really has got his knickers in an ophie knot over successful scientists.

Pz idea of a typical plumber.

http://i.imgur.com/LSG2LJ8.jpg

[Steersman]

[.quote="Eskarina"]
Being a atheist, however, I'd have no problem on pissing on religious books if I thought it would stop abuse in the name of said religion.[/.quote]

Pray tell me how pissing on a religious book "would stop abuse in the name of said religion"? ....

Maybe by clearly showing the terminally obtuse that many others explicitly reject the claim that there's either a "Supreme Being" or one who endorses the hateful and barbaric passages therein? Just a thought.

I don't believe that Islam is irredeemably violent or irredeemably prone to extremism. ....
<snip>
Now, I do agree that parts of the Quran, when interpreted literally are problematic. Here, interestingly, Sufis and Ismailis (and even some Sunni sects) have developed interpretations which attempt to reduce or redirect. I mentioned an example before. ....

Well, good for you. However, one might argue or suggest that even those branches partake too much of a literalist mindset: as long as "Allah" [piss on his name and his Prophet - one without honour] is touted as having written or underwritten any part of the Quran so long will the more problematic branches be given carte blanche to engage in their depredations. You may wish to consider this passage from Why I'm Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq (who apparently now has his own webpage):

The truth of the matter is that Islam will never achieve democracy and human rights if it insists on the application of the sharia and as long as there is no separation of church and state. But as Muir put it: "A reformed faith that should question the divine authority on which they [the institutions of Islam] rest, or attempt by rationalistic selection or abatement to effect a change, would be Islam no longer."

No doubt many Muslims do many good works. But until more question that "divine authority", one might suggest that they are seriously compromised by the fact that at least some portions of the Quran are "irredeemably violent".

In passing, I want to mention the Rasail Ikhwan as-Safa, a compendium written probably in the 10th or 11th century, for a highly egalitarian and scientific interpretation of Islam. Like the Novum Organum, one should read it (and other texts by Rumi, Hafiz, Ibn Arabi, Mulla Sadra, the Bab and modernizing Muslims) before making ignorant comments, and going on and on, like ignorant chest-thumping baboons, about "nigger", "cunt", pissing and mass deportation.

I actually have Idries Shah's The Sufis somewhere, although I haven't had the chance to more than glance through it. And it seems there's much there that is of more than passing value, particularly as it seems to have informed much of Omar Khayyám's work, particularly the Rubaiyat. However, all of that seems to be a rather long ways from the bulk, or at least large portions, of the Quran. And differentiating between those was largely my point about "pissing and mass deportation", the former of which is of course largely hyperbolic, and the latter of which may be somewhat impractical. However, if the Islamic community isn't able to rein-in the whackos, those who think that their "divine authority" trumps secular ones, if push comes to shove, then I can see that many more are likely to consider banning Muslim immigration in general, or that mass deportation is the lesser of the evils.

[John Greg]

H. Korban said:

One must understand, however, that understanding the Quran is not simple. There are bewildering array of interpretations....

But that is of course the fundmental root of both the wonder (for the naive and gullible few) and the ultimate danger (to human social and intellectual freedom) of all religious texts. Understanding fantastical gobbledegook that has no actual, empirical meaning is inevitabley fraught with difficulty; that's not a coding bug, it's a design feature.

All religious texts are quite intentionally vague, opaque, self-contradictory, and so on, and open to any interpretation that any creative individual wishes to endow them with; therefore, any mad man or saint can claim to know specifically and doctrinally what the words mean, and hence what laws they dictate, and hence what the people must do to be saved/holy/WTF, and our mad man/saint can thereby lead a people to whatever ends that mad man or saint should so choose. And it would seem that pretty much invariabley most of the "leading" interpretators, our various beloved mad men and saints, are mostly just out for some variation on power, wealth, and/or social control.

The truth of most religious texts is ultimately the same truth as is carried in a dream: pure interpretation, invention, and fantasy.

[comhcinc]

Pray tell me how pissing on a religious book "would stop abuse in the name of said religion"?

IF

The sweet ape lady said if. That is a very important word.

[James Caruthers]

I actually have Idries Shah's The Sufis somewhere, although I haven't had the chance to more than glance through it.

Fucking seriously? :lol:

How about reading one of those books, you illiterate pleb? Go learn what the fuck Sufis are before you spout off about how Muslims who won't piss on their holy book (which no religious person will do) should be deported.

And differentiating between those was largely my point about "pissing and mass deportation", the former of which is of course largely hyperbolic, and the latter of which may be somewhat impractical. However, if the Islamic community isn't able to rein-in the whackos, those who think that their "divine authority" trumps secular ones, if push comes to shove, then I can see that many more are likely to consider banning Muslim immigration in general, or that mass deportation is the lesser of the evils.

"And differentiating between those was largely my point about "pissing and mass deportation", the former of which is of course largely hyperbolic, and the latter of which may be somewhat impractical. However, if the Black community isn't able to rein-in the violent thugs, those who think that their "slave history" trumps white culture, if push comes to shove, then I can see that many more white people are likely to consider banning Black immigration in general, or that mass deportation back to Africa is the lesser of the evils."

Fixed.

[James Caruthers]

H. Korban said:

One must understand, however, that understanding the Quran is not simple. There are bewildering array of interpretations....

But that is of course the fundmental root of both the wonder (for the naive and gullible few) and the ultimate danger (to human social and intellectual freedom) of all religious texts. Understanding fantastical gobbledegook that has no actual, empirical meaning is inevitabley fraught with difficulty; that's not a coding bug, it's a design feature.

All religious texts are quite intentionally vague, opaque, self-contradictory, and so on, and open to any interpretation that any creative individual wishes to endow them with; therefore, any mad man or saint can claim to know specifically and doctrinally what the words mean, and hence what laws they dictate, and hence what the people must do to be saved/holy/WTF, and our mad man/saint can thereby lead a people to whatever ends that mad man or saint should so choose. And it would seem that pretty much invariabley most of the "leading" interpretators, our various beloved mad men and saints, are mostly just out for some variation on power, wealth, and/or social control.

The truth of most religious texts is ultimately the same truth as is carried in a dream: pure interpretation, invention, and fantasy.

Which is why we cannot mass deport people who believe in a nebulous philosophical system which they can interpret in either good or evil ways depending on their own moral character.

[Guest]

HARPING ON: THE HYPOCRISY AND LIES OF TWITTER’S MOST NOTORIOUS ‘ANTI-ABUSE’ ACTIVIST, RANDI HARPER, PART 1

breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/29/harping-on-the-hypocrisy-and-lies-of-twitters-most-notorious-anti-abuse-activist-randi-harper-part-1/

[comhcinc]

HARPING ON: THE HYPOCRISY AND LIES OF TWITTER’S MOST NOTORIOUS ‘ANTI-ABUSE’ ACTIVIST, RANDI HARPER, PART 1

breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/29/harping-on-the-hypocrisy-and-lies-of-twitters-most-notorious-anti-abuse-activist-randi-harper-part-1/

Hey Milo!

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Pray tell me how pissing on a religious book "would stop abuse in the name of said religion"?

IF

The sweet ape lady said if. That is a very important word.

You are now the pit's Sesame Street Big Bird.